Yesterday evening, the Senate Judiciary Committee passed out their version of the FISA Bill, with only Title I included. Title II, which contained the telecom immunity provision, was left out entirely. Last night, we were getting a lot of competing reports saying that meant telecom was out entirely. And then that it wasn’t, that the SJC bill was only a potential amendment to the Intel bill. And about twenty more permutations all over the map from there.
So I dug around in the Senate Rules — and was on the phone with various staffers of Senate Judiciary members, including a staffer in Sen. Feingold’s office who was very helpful. The answer is that there are a LOT of potential answers as to where this goes from here.
For starters, this bill was handled in a very unusual way due to the pass through from Intel to Judiciary for additional consideration. That does not happen very often, so the procedural intricacies involved in this are a bit muddy for everyone, including some of the Parliamentarian types.
It happened this time due to the importance of the issues involved, and, in my opinion, the fact that the Intel committee completely flubbed the legal issues — taking the Cheney wing of legal analysis as gospel when, in fact, it was unconstitutional bunk. (That’s legalese for “full of crap and disrespectful of precedent.”) Jane has also heard a few other rumors that she detailed here. In any case, the FISA bill was transferred out of Intel, to the Senate calendar, and then into the SJC — there was no new number given to the SJC version – so are they the same bill or separate ones?
I am told that the Intel Committee version of the bill cannot be brought up without the Judiciary version, because the legislative history is intertwined since there is not a separate number. And that is very good news — because the SJC calls into substantial question basket warrants, retroactive immunity and a whole host of other bad legal precedents that, frankly, would have been easily challenged in the courts as unconstitutional as written.
The Judiciary Committee succeeded in making something very clear yesterday: they are unwilling to ignore the years of precedent and respect for the Constitution and the rule of law for the passing whims of a unilateral executive. This was a huge victory for the good guys, and I, for one, am enjoying it.
The following are the potential scenarios as to what may happen with this as we move forward:
1. The Judiciary bill replaces the Intel bill entirely and is voted on as the FISA bill on the floor of the Senate. Since the Judiciary got the bill from Intel, and it was not given an individual number when they received it, there is an argument that the Judiciary bill supercedes/replaces the Intel bill entirely. If this is what happens, expect an enormous wailing and gnashing of GOP-ness, and a grudging behind-the-scenes respect for a tactical smackdown from the Dems. (FWIW, I am told that Reid’s office may be leaning this way — and that is good news, if true.)
2. The Judiciary bill is an amendment to the Intel bill, and will have to be voted as such on the Senate floor — if voted through, it could replace the entire Intel version. This would be a huge floor fight.
3. There are two bills — the Intel version and the Judiciary version. As Majority Leader, Harry Reid can choose between them under Rule 14, and offer whichever one is chosen to the floor of the Senate for a vote.
4. There is a third bill in play: the House passed the amended RESTORE Act yesterday evening, and it could also be pulled in as the bill on which votes will be cast on the floor of the Senate under the Rule 14 prerogative for Harry Reid.
5. Under Rule 14, I am told that there is also an additional option: Harry Reid could take parts of all the bills and craft his own substitute. I think this is politically unlikely, given the make-up of the Democratic caucus and the huge disparities between folks like Pat Leahy and Russ Feingold on the side of the rule of law and Joe Lieberman on the side of…whatever Dick Cheney wants him to side with in the moment. And because the Senate is so tightly divided, and the GOP caucus not too likely to split off many votes, this is the most unlikely of all the scenarios, in my opinion.
Where do we go from here? I’ll try to spell it out in the next post. But take a moment to think about this: you helped bring this about, your calls, your faxes, your pressure on this issue — the public pressure for the rule of law and the constitution over Presidential fiat gave Sens. Leahy, Feingold, Durbin, Cardin and a whole host of others the space they needed to make solid constitutional arguments and make them stick. The various permutations of the bills — from the SJC and the RESTORE Act — are not perfect, but they are a helluva lot better than the Intel bill was, and that is several steps in the better direction.
So kudos to every person who picked up a phone, sent an e-mail or a fax, or cornered an elected representative at an event. You have to savor the little victories where you find them — and this one is an important one for all of us.
(Photo of the Senate side of the Capitol via Tenunda.)




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Christy!
zed
BADA BING!
Good morning, all…
Although this seems hopeful, I can’t see the telecoms not getting a pass. Imagine what the trials of all those law suits would reveal.
Morning all. Off to get more coffee now that this is written…brb…
I’ve got my coffee, Christy – I’m all set to read (bouncing in chair),
Should we be calling Reid’s office today?
“It’s a huge victory,” wrote Jane Hamsher at FireDogLake, “but just the beginning of the fight.”
Raw
Great post, Christy. That sure was a thorny mess to untangle. Very confusing as it was coming down.
What a mess with the bill(s)… Two versions of the same bill, different bills, one is an amendment of the other???!!?
How the f*ck did this happen? Whom to blame?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 5
BRB
from TRex late late night
Thanks, Jane — I have been on and off the phone no less than five times this morning trying to sort out details. And I’m still no closer to getting a definitive answer out of any one person. *g* But, hopefully, I will know more as the day unfolds…
Biodun at 10 — Why is there a need to blame anyone? This is arcane Senate procedure that will get sorted out via the parliamentarians and Sen. Byrd’s office, most likely, along with Sen. Reid’s office. Because it was an unusual situation, there aren’t ready answers.
But, in this case, the system of slow things down and really consider the implications that the Senate was designed to do worked perfectly. They slowed a very bad bill until enough back pressure had built up to correct it’s major flaws — and that is very good news for all of us.
Steve-AR @ 8
Jane is quite correct. We need to keep going on this matter. Letters to the editor in local papers, more calls, more personal letters by snail mail as well. It might be a good idea to compose a letter and share it with friends and have friends sign off on it or have them compose a similar version and send it on their own. This is an important legislative fight and we cannot stop.
Thank you to Christy and Jane for working with commitment above and beyond…
harry reid on CSPAN 1 facing reporters
on iraq funding
Prof. Foland — Yes, calling Reid’s office in support of the SJC bill is a good idea. Can’t hurt to keep the pressure on with that…
Am still trying to get time to read through the RESTORE Act to see if it is worth pushing as well, but I just have not had time as yet between the research and the phone calls.
Agreed. Great job! I was feeling a serious case of wtf last night.
Is there an any indication of how Harry “feels” about immunity and warrants?
Also does anyone want to speculate about Sheldon Whitehouse’s votes?
I just don’t see why the dems have any reason to feel vulnerable on this. The should start reciting the meme that shrub cares more about the telcoms than the does about national security and stopping terrorists. Not only is it simple to understand, it’s true.
I’m very impressed that DiFi seems to be backing away from teleco immunity. She’s been getting a lot of heat–YAY
Great work everyone.
So, I was wondering whether Feinstein was expecting a vote on Title II (immunity) to follow the vote on Title I. Was it clear at the time that Leahy called the vote on Title I that this was it?
Just curious. Thank you all so very much for making it more accessible.
Christy:
Thanks. But my question is actually more naive: Why is the same bill passing through two different committees? Is it simply because the issue entangles both intel and judicial?
Biodun at 23 — Yes, both Intel and Judiciary had jurisdiction on this particular issue if they chose to exercise it. And, in this case, after the mess that came out of Intel, Leahy exercised his prerogative of legislative oversight.
I did my part!
I called my senator (Feinstein, who is becoming a BIG disappointment) three times in the last few days to let her know my views.
realworld @ 20
I agree, as it stands it looks as if the Dems have put the Thugs at a political disadvantage. Voting on an amendment reduces the “Dems don’t want to fight terror” and makes it “Thugs support the Teleco’s”. A bush veto would be perfect..revert to old law.
Thanks again, Christy: As you said above: arcane Senate procedure…
Good morning. I do love parliamentary maneuvering, it is infuriating democracy at work, but trying to sort it all out is well… thank you Christy you have managed to make sense of the jumble.
Of course all the scenarios, above, require that the Dems. grow some testicles if we the people are to prevail.
The repugs are going to do everything they can, in every instance, to prevent any exposure of the bush cabal to legal scrutiny. They will tie things up in floor procedure, in committee motions and in press posturing until the clock runs out. And the Dem leadership will bluster then fold. Even if, by some miracle, a meaningful piece of legislation were to pass the WH pig would veto it and then, were it to be overridden, would attach a signing statement disavowing any need to comply with it.
Reid says they will offer the Intel bill and then the SJC bill as a sub. YUCK!
Bush wants to protect corporate criminals more than the American people.
That and he’s good friends with the leader of a nation that sentences rape victims to 200 lashes.
-GSD
I can’t make phone calls or FAX at work, but I’ve been sending postcards. It was fascinating to “watch” it unfold.
But WTF is up with Whitehouse? I thought he was one of the good guys.
Has anyone done a “virtual” whip count for the cloture vote on an immunity amendment. Are there a critical number of Senators where “pressure” could change some votes?
realworld @ 29
If that happens, then that answers my question of “Where does Reid stand”.
OT, but here’s a story that’ll make you kick out a stained glass window.
VA nightmare for wounded soldier.
Perhaps a cause to run with?
-GSD
Steve-AR @ 33
Anywhere but “up”
Thanks go especially to you Christy and all the other fine people who post here and elsewhere in the blogosphere for keeping us up-to-date on what is going on in Congress. I cannot thank you enough for all that you do.
Biodun @ 10
There’s a reason they compare making legislation to making sausage ;) It’s a mess, but hopefully you get something good in the end…
nomolos @ 28
A related aside… Each Senator and Rep tracks responses to issues from constituency. This is a matter of public record as well. If we keep the pressure on in the form of documented communication of our position on the legislation, and the numbers are high, it will be political suicide for either side. The people have to really respond to this in big numbers. This is “our” side of the numbers game… And we also need to be asking for those “constituency numbers” and posting them to show a strong stance for rule of law from the people. Then follow those numbers with questions like, “Why would telecoms or the President go against rule of law, protection of the Constitution?” Then opposition must explain –with valid detail or reason and not just the fear card — their legislative stance.
christy – just want to add my deep thanks to the chorus here. it must be incredibly frustrating to try to sort this all out while we are peppering you with questions.
OT..
Republican Senators kill Iraq funding bill
link
Elliott @ 15
i’m watching him on c-span2 right now! what’s up?
Thanks in advance, Christy, for offering to sort out more of this in the next post… Maybe you can get a little bit of help from your Senator…*g*
phred @ 36
I’ve only been visiting the Lake for a few months, and I’ve learned more about current events than I ever knew in my entire life, and I’m nearly 65. My adult kids are very impressed!
Thanks to Jane, Christy, and all of the front pagers and thoughtful commenters for educating me (and sometimes amusing me). I just wish I had more intelligent comments of my own to contribute to the discussions.
msmolly @ 43
i joke about christy getting me hooked on c-span and watching the committee hearings – but it’s really true! two years ago i didn’t know what great resources we have available to watch some of what our congress is doing inorder to hold them accountable.
even though i get frustrated… it’s only because i now want more opennesss and transparency and accountability than i previously thought was even possible.
My only concern is that we’re trading off our Fourth Amendment Rights (by passing any extention of the current FISA rules) in exchange for the dubious honor of maybe someday prosecuting the telecoms for something they did five years ago. Not that they don’t deserve it, but I see this as a false choice, and a bad bargain.
Christy:
I am so glad there’s someone out here both competent enough and down to earth enough to explain all this in a meaningful fashion. I keep seeing these very technical wonky explanations. Yours is much better.
Great explanation, Christy. However, I’m still confused given that the House has already passed a bill. Assuming that Reid doesn’t use the House bill to present to the Senate, regardless of what version comes out of the Senate (Intel or Judiciary), doesn’t it then become necessary for a compromise bill to be drafted that reflects aspects of both House and Senate versions? Also, if a filibuster is successful in the Senate, what happens to the House bill? This seems to be one of the most procedurally sticky situations I’ve seen. Thanks for trying to make sense of it.
The other thing that FDL front-page posters (and several commenters, but especially posters) do is make transparency in government and MSM look easy–which it ain’t.
Reid, as majority leader, looks to be holding most of the high cards, but is not in complete control. I did see a report where he was advising his fellow Dems that he would appoint only anti-immunity Democrats to the eventual House-Senate conference committee. Since a pro-immunity ammendment or substitute is sure to be offered by the Republicans, then this could be a signal to the Democrats to not be part of a 60 vote cloture requirement for such a substitute.
I don’t see telecom immunity as a winner with the public at large. It is not as if the telecom companies are high on most people’s lists as their favorite service providers.
ChickenMan @ 25
DFA sent out a balst emailclaiming that it was calls to Feinstien’s office that did the trick. I don’t know ifit’s true, but I’d like to think so
grayslady at 47 — Yes, but this is how bills are always put together between the houses of Congress. Once the Senate passes a version — unless they pass the House version outright, there will be a conference version that comes out that will be negotiated between the House and Senate and then sent to President Bush for acceptance or veto. The conference version is almost always a combination of the two sides of the legislation in some form or another — and, in this case, we are starting with a House bill that has no immunity, no basket warrants, and a number of other improvements.
OT..
A Campaign Hopes a Slur Will Lead to Donations
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE (NYT)
(Ms. Seelye’s conclusion; it’s Hillary’s fault for being a bitch)
(snip)
At the same time, the episode may remind voters that many people have strong feelings about Mrs. Clinton and make them question whether they want to live with animosity and polarization.
NYT
realworld @ 29
wtf?
linky?
selise — It’s not so bad, although I’m fielding phone calls, doing research, answering questions…and dealing with a sick wee girlie all at the same time today. I have to say, my powers of multi-tasking are being tested. *g*
As an aside, I planted the “please start webcasting business meetings” bug in several Senate ears.
OT–
That 60-vote thingy again:
My bold.
CHS–thanks for response. If it comes down to a conference version, unless the Senate votes against immunity (and basket warrants), I guess it just depends on whether a compromise can even be reached.
Biodun @ 10
Whom to blame? Start with the Senate Intelligence Committee. Credit Senators Dodd, Feingold, and Leahy, and the netroots. I watched some of the judiciary markup meeting yesterday, and learned that Whitehouse’s vote in Intelligence was based on either false information or omitted information. Did anyone out there catch that? Would appreciate an explanation.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 54
Good for you Christy! And I hope the Peanut feels better soon!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 54
my bold.
i’m still laughing out loud as i write.
just very glad we-all are given the benefit of your amazing ability to multitask.
I guess Chimpy’s plan is to rule by veto and signing statements until he leaves the Oval Office permanently in January 2009.
Biodun @ 60
And presidential fiat/administrative decrees. They don’t need Congress anymore.
Biodun @ 55
This has got to hurt the Republicans more than it does. Bills don’t get passed and they are out in force saying ‘dems don’t get anything done’. I just roll my eyes, but there needs to be a dem smackdown to this.
Biodun @ 60
Except for vetoes, that’s been Cheney’s plan for him since January 2001.
Seems like we’ve had so many white-knuckle moments lately… that have come to nothing. Let us hope this time is different!
ot – i think senator reid said there would be no more roll call votes on the senate floor today and that they would go on recess and take up all these matters (iraq, etc…) when they return.
I suapect there will be a showdown–or a number of showdowns–between the Senate and Chimpy after Thanksgiving recess: war funding, budegt bills for health and education, FISA, and so on, especially re: war funding, if Reid makes good on his threat.
selise @ 65
If so then let the recess appointment frenzy begin.
TheraP @ 64
Exactly, and we have a lot more beatings ahead of us. We just have to suck it up and have long memories.
suspect…
selise @ 65
I thought I read that Reid was preparing to run the Senate on that xxx basis (I can’t think of the word right now) through the recess.
pro forma?
Toby Wollin @ 70
Reid has shown that there’s little reason to believe him when he says those things.
On the last thread, someone posted a news item that Hillary and the other Dem leaders wouldn’t engage in any more televised debates. I can’t find anything on it. Was it snark?
Toby Wollin @ 70
xxx = incomprehensible? inexcusable? egregious? Contest time.
There will most certainly be more Dem presidential debates. You can count on that…
Cheney has always been able to convince people he has expertise in areas he has no knowledge what so ever.
he has failed every administration, has always made bizarre claims that never show any kind of accuracy, yet he is deferred to when he makes any statement or claim
we really MUST change that affect, progressives can use Cheney as a “go to” when talking about ineptitude
whenever a conversation gives the chance progressive politicians should do something like;
“well Cheney said it, he’s been so inept we really have to look at any claims he makes, he is possibly more inept then bush”
man that would be great
xxx basis
X-Files… (out of this world)…
Celebrate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmOQyyezwCQ
perris @ 76
a dated but must read for everyone
great article
egregious @ 74
Aw, Egreg – I just had a brain cramp there. I do think it is “pro forma” basis. That is, just to prevent Bush from making recess appts.
It was this (guessing it was snark):
lina @ 76
Christy Hardin Smith @ 17
I was asking a little bit rhetorically…
Reid’s office number: 202-224-3542
OT..The drum beat for war continues:
The Bush administration plans to push for new sanctions against Iran after the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency reported yesterday that Tehran is providing “diminishing” information about its controversial nuclear program, U.S. officials said.
(snip)
WaPo
Toby Wollin @ 80
Toby, I’m sorry, not trying to be critical. Just looking for an opportunity to express my opinion on how Reid is/isn’t making things happen even with a Democratic majority. Forgive?
Oh so WRONG! The civil lawsuits are the ONLY way we will ever get the required information on how extensive and illegal was the spying on Americans that Bush approved. It is the ONLY way we will force Telecoms and the Executive to obey the law or face the consequences. There must be consequences.
I want to know exactly what was collected, on whom, and what has been done with that illegally collected information. Further, I then want all the illegally-collected information to be absolutely purged by law. No records, not database, containing illegally-obtained information. There must be NO benefit to the Executive for their illegal activities.
Telecom immunity is not a distraction, it is core. It helps support the absolute requirement that the 4th Amendment be strictly adhered to. No exceptions.
That darn 60-vote thingy yet again–and what I meant by showdowns if Reid makes good on his threat:
My bold.
I’m sorry. I don’t mean to be a downer. But, is anyone else suspicious? Afraid that we’re going to be screwed again?
My poor brain is going to have to read this post a few times more, but Christy you rock!
– Assuming that Reid doesn’t use the House bill to present to the Senate –
.
A common parliamentary procedure is to take the House bill, gut it entirely and substitute Senate language. It’s a waste of effort to try to attach any significance to the bill number selected. Statutory language flits around from bill to bill, amendment to amendment, like crazy.
.
I’ve seen Senate-generated revenue language being substituted lock-stock-and-barrel for a House-initiated revenue bill (totally unrelated, other than being revenue raising), and that would be taken as “a revenue bill originating in the house,” even though the ONLY thing that originated in the House was the darn bill number.
.
I expect to see SJC’s Title I language, and Intelligence’s Title II language as the starting point for Senate debate. That represents the combined decisions of the members of the two committees.
Of course. I am assuming this will be the case until I am proved wrong by objective reality. Nothing that comes out of Reid’s mouth can be trusted. He’s very GOP when it comes to his words. They don’t mean what they actually mean according to the rules of common American English.
Professor Foland @ 82
So a lot rests on Reid? Hmmmm. What is a good time frame for calling now till when do we have?
reported in the new york times no less, republicans bolting from the party
all due to dick cheney;
have a look
perris @ 79
Thanks for linking to that again — great article! A real eye-opener on the power behind the throne.
perris @ 92
Hey! Praedor Atrebates @ 85
Yes I am a little excited by the possibilities myself. Imagine if Plame’s lawsuit was able to get off the ground as well.
Oops@94
OT..For information and not to increase “outrage fatigue”
The Federal Emergency Management Agency wasted about $30 million last year in maintaining trailers for Hurricane Katrina survivors in Mississippi, according to a new government report. In one case cited, FEMA awarded contracts that could have cost as much as $229,000 to support one family in a single trailer — roughly the price of a five-bedroom home in Jackson, Miss.
By not awarding work to contractors with the lowest bids, FEMA misspent $16 million, said the Government Accountability Office, Congress’s audit arm. The agency misspent an additional $15 million on inspections that it could not prove were performed, preventive maintenance for which contractors falsified documents, and emergency repairs on trailers that FEMA did not own, the GAO said.
(snip)
WaPo
God forbid that an African American family would live in a 5 bedroom house..keep them in formaldehyde contaminated trailers where “they” belong. Jeebus.
From the link in 92:
This easily could have come right out of Thomas Frank’s The Matter with Kansas, on how people vote against their own interests:
Jane is upstairs -
Good Morning Christy and pups. THANK YOU Christy for your incredible work. And thanks to everyone who pestered & prodded and called & faxed till their voices and fingers were numb. Bravo!
solai @ 87
That’s a given, and has been since before chimpy got into office & the veep “found” hisownself the perfect choice for veep.
I suggest we take Christy’s [potentially good news so far] as just that.
Stay suspicious, but it looks as if there’s more potential for some fairly decent outcome to this mess than there was day before yestidie, eh?
I admit it. I’m with you, Christy, in enjoying whatever discomfort the repubbles feel on the heels of yesterday’s game of parliamentary pattycake. I hope they enjoy their Thanksgiving turkey giblets.
OK Someone posted this link downthread to the Edwards blog, accusing FDL of making Hillary the poster girl. I dont’ think this poster gets the subtlety of the positions here.
WooHoo!
msmolly @ 43
Thank God for the internet that has been able to inform activists about issues, such as the telecoms immunity. I guess pressure on DiFi was great. She only listens when people call her constantly, otherwise she votes her interests which is money for her and her husband. I suspect she will will quit the Senate before 2012.
Great job, Christy Hardin Smith. If only all reporting was this good…..
Now we need to keep up the pressure on the political dogs.
SteveInNC @ 102
Oops, this part is mine and shouldn’t have been in the quotes.
I had a thought last night that one good thing, quite possibly the only good thing to come out of the screaming horror that is the Bush administration, is us: a generation of educated, aware, civic activists.
note to self…preview
Nice analysis by Christy. Things are far from rosy as to the outcome however because so much is going to depend on the battle of votes–votes to overcome a fillibuster to certain amendments (any could be added) and the Bush Veto that will come if any of these important elements (telco amnesty, basket warrants, subjective DOJ control as to what’s legal in the bill doesn’t go Bush’s way).
Also a huge wildcard is going to be the inevitable Conference Committee completely done in secret with no public access and limited access depending on what leaks out to the rest of the House and Senate.
I just noticed that C-Span 3 was televising the SJC markup this morning, and I hope they repeat it tonight or over the weekend, but it’s not on their schedule now.
Cspan Schedule Friday, November 16, 2007
I strongly recommend everyone try to watch it. Maybe C-Span or some Senate site will put a feed up. If anyone knows a feed, I’d appreciate it, so I can watch all of it.
Most committee meetings are so full of specious posturing, a playing to the cameras with language better suited to Jane Austen’s novels, and often they are frankly boring.
This one is in some places riveting, particularly the extent to which Republicans are ready to put your Constiution and your 4th Amendment rights in the incinerator, not to mention all their colorful positions in bed with the major Teco companies. It also gives you an appreciation that Leahy, Feingold, and Dick Durban know precisely how much is at stake for this country and they seem to be fighting for it.
Cbolt has had some precient comments on drama and facade orchestrated in these committees to look one way to the voters when the outcome may be long ago decided on a previous thread. I sure hope what seems to be a good effort by SJC has a decent outcome. Jane Hamsher has a wonderful, healthy sense of consistent optimism and I admire it. I just wish I could share it here.
Dick Durban may not get in the news frequently, but he’s not missing anything as to the Republican manuevering and what’s at stake here and he’s always worth listening to. Durban’s comments on Senate Judiciary being held at arm’s length in questioning the government because the government uses the cloak of secrecy is very important. It’s a manuever that has been used in an unprecedented way during the Bush administration to classify information and prevent oversight questioning on topics that as Durban says, have no business being classified.
Additionally, the Telcos and White House still have in this bill unbridled wiretapping of any American if they trvel abroad not to mention people in other countries without any substantive reason whatsoever to target them.
I have to say, I would never trust Diane Feinstein ever after her performance as to this bill, and Jon Kyle gets my vote as one of the top 10 worst people and least intelligent people in the Senate.
The extent to which Feinstein and Specter wanted to rely on an en banc FISA court to actually stop a collection of data or wiretapping is truly naieve, wanting a presumption that the government is always right and there would need to be an appeal to an en banc FISA court to correct a government mistake. Unbelievable. Who would make the appeal on behalf of the target??? Who on earth?
There is also now language in this bill for some wiretaps to be conducted for 45 days before a warrant has to be procured. Also it’s amazing but hardly suprising to me to hear Orin Hatch argue for ongoing wiretapping and collection of information while a hypothetical “appeal process to an en banc FISA court” however that could possibly work on this planet, would take place.
This is a court that has almost never questioned a wire-tap warrent:
It is also rare for FISA warrant requests to be turned down by the court. Through the end of 2004, 18,761 warrants were granted, while just five were rejected (many sources say four). Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four known rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being resubmitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few if any were before the year 2000. In subsequent years, according to journalist Joshua Micah Marshall, the breakdown was as follows:[3]
Year Modified requests
2000 1 request modified
2001 2 requests modified
2002 2 requests modified (both modifications later reversed)
2003 79 requests modified (out of 1724 granted)
2004 94 requests modified (out of 1758)
On May 17, 2002, the court rebuffed then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, releasing an opinion that alleged that FBI and Justice Department officials had “supplied erroneous information to the court in more than 75 applications for search warrants and wiretaps, including one signed by then-FBI Director Louis J. Freeh”.[4] Whether this rebuke is related to the court starting to require modification of drastically more requests in 2003 is unknown.
On December 16, 2005, the New York Times reported that the Bush administration had been conducting surveillance against U.S. citizens without the knowledge of the FISC since 2002.[5] On December 20, 2005, Judge James Robertson resigned his position with the FISC, apparently in protest of the secret surveillance.[6] The government’s apparent circumvention of the FISC may also be related to the increase in court-ordered modifications to warrant requests.
Arlen Specter IMHO is never ever going to be your friend when it comes to civil liberties. He has done a considerable amount to take away your basic 4th Amendment rights already, and really hurt you with his advocacy of now sitting federal judges including those on the Supreme Court who ultimately support a Unitary Executive approach.
He wins my hot air facade award and he consistently does this with every important civil liberties issue or judicial confirmation.
mui @ 94
Christy Hardin Smith @ 13
Yes, I am struck by the gravitas and the drama of the moment, that the FISA bill is focussing debate on constitutional issues that reflect on our roots as well as affects the kind of country we want to be moving into the future.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 17
Christy, thank you for all your good work. Just called Reid’s office, DiFI, and Boxer to support SJC version of the FISA bill.
“Additionally, the Telcos and White House still have in this bill unbridled wiretapping of any American if they travel abroad not to mention people in other countries without any substantive reason whatsoever to target them.
I have to say, I would never trust Diane Feinstein ever after her performance as to this bill, and Jon Kyle gets my vote as one of the top 10 worst people and least intelligent people in the Senate.” Pete Pierce
Pete, I thought Whitehouse effectively smacked down Kyl on Fourth Amendment protections for US citizens abroad. Whitehouse is sharp. And yes, I also found this hearing riveting.
mui @ 100
Someone in the comments asserts that Jane threatened to “boot” anyone that “piled on” Hillary.
Apparently there are some inveterate liars over n the Edwards blog.