WooHoo.

I’m second? Wow!

Just flipped to debate. Obama had a good retort.

let dennis talk!

Third?

My Idol, is getting the short end of the stick…

What does France do with nuclear waste?

According to the Dodd clock it would seem to be Obama’s night — he’s got even more time than Wolfie. But Richardson? I’m baffled….

Obama called Wolf out on being negative wrt energy. Best Obama I have ever seen!

noted Obama said we needed “improved nuclear” to solve energy crisis … argh

Richardson is hitting the truth on nuclear right now! No nuclear until we know how to clean the waste.

Kucinich is having trouble getting a word in edgewise, as usual. Obama gets twice DK’s air time.

Bob in HI

Oh, Jeez….the “old boys club” junk… [gag]

bobschacht @ 12

Kucinich is having trouble getting a word in edgewise, as usual. Obama gets twice DK’s air time.

Bob in HI

Sadly, So!

Ugh… the old boys club card and all that being brought up.
Well, it’s was bound to.

Catfight!!!

Siun @ 10

noted Obama said we needed “improved nuclear” to solve energy crisis … argh

boy you got that right!

Clinton: If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen & I’m comfortable in the kitchen. She missed adding: but not baking cookies.

Good one Hill!

Most of HRC questions are questions about campaign, not policy.

Frequently questins to other candidates are about HRC’s campaign.

Get back to the freaking issues, dammnit.

Oilfieldguy @ 16

Catfight!!!

Yee-haw! ‘Glass-Ceiling!’

Just got home. What’s going on?

Very classy & poised reply on the gender issue.

“improved nuclear”

It’s the most expensive way to boil water ever conceived.

It’s the nuclear waste that’s the problem and there’s no real solution.

First, the anti-gay preacher and now this…

Her best moments here.

Clinton did just fine on the “boys club” question.

Clinton on boy’s club. Gender.

Hillary says she is not playing the gender card, wants to play the winning card. People are attaching because I’m ahead, Kitchen comment again.

An issue we can laugh about, because of the progress in America over my lifetime. A woman, an African American a Latino.

She is excited about this being history making. I’m not running because I am a woman. Parents bring daughters, old women come wanting to see the first chance of a woman president in America.

wangdangdoodle @ 22

Just got home. What’s going on?

Heh, surely you jest! ;-)

eCAHNomics @ 7

What does France do with nuclear waste?

good question.And Japan?

Hiya WDD!

Edwards getting booed on…. ??

What did Edwards get booed for? Missed it.

Uh oh. Boos for Edwards. :(

Steve-AR @ 29

eCAHNomics @ 7

What does France do with nuclear waste?

good question.And Japan?

IIRC France buries most of its waste in Normandy. I don’t know about Japan.

Edwards got a dig in at HRC…that’s what got the boos.

AnnieW @ 20

Get back to the freaking issues, dammnit.

The MSM address issues? Not in my recent lifetime. Look at the nightly news and the BIG newspapers (you know who I’m talking about). There’s constructively NOTHING about issues. Feh.

Have to admit, I’m feeling more and more comfortable about Senator Clinton.

Shocking.

demi @ 33

Uh oh. Boos for Edwards. :(

Yeah I missed it too. Anyone catch it?

Clinton and Obama are doing well. IMHO

Damn it. Any one of these candidates is better than a Republic. I hope they are smart enough and strong enough to battle the coming dishonesty, disinformation, and misdirections from the Republic Party and its media toadies.

I missed it too. He was talking about how the voters deserve to know the differences between the candidates….
What’d we miss?
Bet we’ll her it again, tho.

TexBetsy @ 30

Hiya WDD!

Hiya Betsy!

Edwards pointed out that HRC was a corporate Democrat accepting money from corporations.

Slothrop @ 37

Have to admit, I’m feeling more and more comfortable about Senator Clinton.

Shocking.

I know. Weird. Me too.

“This debate brought to you by the Coal Industry.”

Got a mountain ya want taken down?

I know MY reaction is when Edwards and Obama really get their digs in on Hillary, it makes me mad and I feel like I should be defending her.

may not be fair, I don’t think is working in their favor.

dakine01 @ 45

“This debate brought to you by the Coal Industry.”

Got a mountain ya want taken down?

You caught that, too? Pretty funny.

Education in Nevada is abysmal.

Catch that last little eye tightening “shot” at Edwards by Clinton….?

Oh, my.

Is there a straight audio feed for those of us on dial-up?

Hillary does a pretty good job of taking care of herself.

CTuttle @ 28

wangdangdoodle @ 22

Just got home. What’s going on?

Heh, surely you jest! ;-)

No. Really. I just got home:)

Where are we watching this debate?

Fern @ 44

Slothrop @ 37

Have to admit, I’m feeling more and more comfortable about Senator Clinton.

Shocking.

I know. Weird. Me too.

Do either of you think she’s beyond “The Establishment” ?

Something makes me think it might be his ufo moment. The pundits said DK’s ufo answer was the end of his candidacy, but I think it was nothing more than a blip, but one which got a lot of coverage.
Those Boos could possibly work in his favor. Maybe.

Oilfieldguy @ 43

Edwards pointed out that HRC was a corporate Democrat accepting money from corporations.

If the truth hurts…

Oh, great. Now we’re about to hear from “undecided voters.” Isn’t that a polite term for “idiots?”

debate’s on CNN

CCNN

LS @ 49

Catch that last little eye tightening “shot” at Edwards by Clinton….?

Oh, my.

I guess he’s out for the VP slot.

wangdoodle, it’s on CNN

Elliott @ 53

Fern @ 44

I know. Weird. Me too.

Do either of you think she’s beyond “The Establishment” ?

No.

Hugh @ 50

Is there a straight audio feed for those of us on dial-up?

the video feed link is only giving me the audio.

S.iun @ 10

noted Obama said we needed “improved nuclear” to solve energy crisis … argh

The nuclear navy as sailed for decades with nearly zero problems. The know-how exists, but perhaps it’s part of the government and not the private sector. That’s blasphemy to Republics, but they live in a fantasy world.

Oilfieldguy @ 48

Education in Nevada is abysmal.

Careful, OFG, my sister and brother-in-law are teachers in Clark County…

Marion in Savannah @ 56

Oh, great. Now we’re about to hear from “undecided voters.” Isn’t that a polite term for “idiots?”

Many of us on this thread are undecided in the primary.

eCAHNomics @ 59

LS @ 49

Catch that last little eye tightening “shot” at Edwards by Clinton….?

Oh, my.

I guess he’s out for the VP slot.

Yeah. That worked out so well for him last time….

Best statements by each candidate so far?

Marion in Savannah @ 56

Oh, great. Now we’re about to hear from “undecided voters.” Isn’t that a polite term for “idiots?”

good to know.. ‘cuz i’m undecided now too.

Badwater @ 63

S.iun @ 10

noted Obama said we needed “improved nuclear” to solve energy crisis … argh

The nuclear navy as sailed for decades with nearly zero problems. The know-how exists, but perhaps it’s part of the government and not the private sector. That’s blasphemy to Republics, but they live in a fantasy world.

It’s the nuclear waste, not the plants. Navy probably just dumps it in the ocean.

Marion in Savannah @ 56

Oh, great. Now we’re about to hear from “undecided voters.” Isn’t that a polite term for “idiots?”

I’ve been called worse.

AnnieW @ 47

dakine01 @ 45

“This debate brought to you by the Coal Industry.”

Got a mountain ya want taken down?

You caught that, too? Pretty funny.

I’d actually seen a note somewhere today that the Coal Industry was the primary sponsor so when the ad came up, it just ran right out my fingertips.

TexBetsy @ 65

Marion in Savannah @ 56

Oh, great. Now we’re about to hear from “undecided voters.” Isn’t that a polite term for “idiots?”

Many of us on this thread are undecided in the primary.

many of us on this thread don’t have a vote that counts anyway.

Elliott @ 53

Fern @ 44

I know. Weird. Me too.

Do either of you think she’s beyond “The Establishment” ?

Now very far. I did however see a couple of glimpses of genuine feeling - in answer to the gender issue for example and about the insurance industry - that made me think there may yet be some principles in there.

“Improved nuclear”?…Hey where’s Jimmy Carter when you need him!

Barrack Obama…”Brought (and bought) to you by the Improved Nuclear Industry. INI “Giving You A Glowing Future”.”

eCAHNomics @ 59

LS @ 49

Catch that last little eye tightening “shot” at Edwards by Clinton….?

Oh, my.

I guess he’s out for the VP slot.

Yup, pretty much.

“a hundred folks”………???

I am not yet decided either.

Slothrop @ 61

Elliott @ 53

Do either of you think she’s beyond “The Establishment” ?

No.

Might be.. if the wingnuts are right and she is a commie, soci*l*st, pinko..someone is going to be wrong about Hillary.. but who?

Oh, Jeez… I hope the administration doesn’t choose to go after this kid who doesn’t want to go to Iran…

OldCoastie @ 77

I am not yet decided either.

About which Dem’s to vote for , that’s true.

Sometime’s these independents aren’t even Dems…but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case here.

eCAHNomics @ 69

Badwater @ 63

The nuclear navy as sailed for decades with nearly zero problems. The know-how exists, but perhaps it’s part of the government and not the private sector. That’s blasphemy to Republics, but they live in a fantasy world.

It’s the nuclear waste, not the plants. Navy probably just dumps it in the ocean.

Simply not true.

Blitzer played a lot of Gotcha early - demanding yes or no answers on driver licenses for immigrants, nafta, china trade. Blitzer attemting to nail the dems with rethug points - security or human rights. A false dichotomy.

I can’t imagine that the republicans in their debates are pounded thusly. Is Media Matters keeping score? Blitzer is a right wing tool. So is John Facelift Roberts.

Scarecrow @ 67

Best statements by each candidate so far?

what say you, Scarecrow?

I don’t think these are independent voters, I think they are simply undecided.

Audience questions. Son had 3 terms in Iraq, and now they’re talking Iran. How are you going to show us leadership on Iran?

Biden, Hillary voted for calling Revolutionary guard a terrorist organization. Caused the Muslim world to think we hate Islam. If Bush takes us to war in Iran, he should be impeached.

Elliott @ 72

TexBetsy @ 65

Many of us on this thread are undecided in the primary.

many of us on this thread don’t have a vote that counts anyway.

Ooh, some Gloomy Gus’s, eh? Our primary vote counts where ever we reside…

did Biden just say Bush should be impeached?

O thank you! The mother of an Iraq marine vet (3 tours) asking what the candidates will do to stop the ratcheting up of the Iran rhetoric. Her son (standing next to her who said bring the troops home now!) is in Marine IRR and would be called up.

Biden says Kyl-Lieberman bad

HRC saying her vote not a concern but the current admin is.

Sorry about that “undecided” comment — I flash to national electoral politics when I hear that… I trust we’re all decided on the Democrats? [hangs head in shame]

CTuttle @ 64

Oilfieldguy @ 48

Education in Nevada is abysmal.

Careful, OFG, my sister and brother-in-law are teachers in Clark County…

My daughter, her husband and my grandchild live in Vegas. Special on PBS said they ranked dead last on funding.

Kudos to teachers oing what they can with so little. Sorry I wasn’t clear and should not have stained the system when it is the funding.

leslie @ 86

did Biden just say Bush should be impeached?

yes, if he goes to war with Iran without congressional approval.

Is Dan Senor’s wife asking questions?

Scarecrow,
John Edwards spoke sometime in the beginning that reminded me of his Morality Speech from a couple weeks ago.
My choice.

selise @ 62

Hugh @ 50

Is there a straight audio feed for those of us on dial-up?

the video feed link is only giving me the audio.

I was listening on this but it was breaking up. I’ll try again. I’ll never understand why video links don’t have audio only options.

Clinton, no fear on Iran. Working with Congress to make sure Bush knows there is no authorization for war with Iran. Diplomacy. Immediately begin, without asking them to give up goals of nuclear power. Get china and the rest of the world with us. The Revolutionary Guard has helped kill Americans. Get tough on diplomacy.

hackworth @ 82

Blitzer played a lot of Gotcha early - demanding yes or no answers on driver licenses for immigrants, nafta, china trade. Blitzer attemting to nail the dems with rethug points - security or human rights. A false dichotomy.

I can’t imagine that the republicans in their debates are pounded thusly. Is Media Matters keeping score? Blitzer is a right wing tool. So is John Facelift Roberts.

I certainly do not like the way the questions are framed, however, many of them are pertinent, irregardless of the framing…

HRC is spouting all of Bush’s lies on Iran!!!!

anyone need another reason to not support her?

hackworth @ 81

Blitzer played a lot of Gotcha early - demanding yes or no answers on driver licenses for immigrants, nafta, china trade. Blitzer attemting to nail the dems with rethug points - security or human rights. A false dichotomy.

I can’t imagine that the republicans in their debates are pounded thusly. Is Media Matters keeping score? Blitzer is a right wing tool. So is John Facelift Roberts.

Republics will be allowed to scream about these issues without being required to offer a coherent and implementable solution.

leslie @ 87

did Biden just say Bush should be impeached?

If he starts a war wiht Iran.

Hillary beating the drums of war with Iran to make herself look tough.

Marion in Savannah @ 79

Oh, Jeez… I hope the administration doesn’t choose to go after this kid who doesn’t want to go to Iran…

We can hope all we want…I would bet $$$ that both the soldier and his mother will be savaged.

It’s too bad.

So far both Biden & Clinton have missed the Iran answer: “Iran has indicated that they are open to a grand bargain on several occassions, and the Bush administration has spurned their overatures. I would pursue this track.”

CTuttle @ 85

Elliott @ 72

many of us on this thread don’t have a vote that counts anyway.

Ooh, some Gloomy Gus’s, eh? Our primary vote counts where ever we reside…

yeah right.

Ha!

Siun @ 97

HRC is spouting all of Bush’s lies on Iran!!!!

anyone need another reason to not support her?

No

OldCoastie @ 91

leslie @ 86

did Biden just say Bush should be impeached?

yes, if he goes to war with Iran without congressional approval.

Pipedream. Impeachment for Dubya would never happen if he attacked Iran.

OldCoastie @ 91

leslie @ 86

did Biden just say Bush should be impeached?

yes, if he goes to war with Iran without congressional approval.

Too little too late.

Edwards calling bullshit on Hillary’s Iran guard terrorist vote.

Marion in Savannah @ 89

Sorry about that “undecided” comment — I flash to national electoral politics when I hear that… I trust we’re all decided on the Democrats? [hangs head in shame]

no problem. and quite frankly, i’m a little frustrated myself for my inability to figure out who i think would be a good president… so - i’m not gonna give you a hard time if you are frustrated with me too. *g*

is this the vote that Obama skipped? Will he knock Hillary around for voting for it?

It’s quite a spectacle.

HRC: I’m not playing the gender card.

Then, she must show masculine toughness above all else on Iran issue.

Gender card is a many sided thing.

Quick off-topic heads-up, that this morning’s Senate Judiciary Committee business meeting to amend FISA will be broadcast on C-SPAN 2 starting at about 10 p.m. Eastern tonight. [C-SPAN came through…]

Edwards got it exactly right on the Iran question. Obama - not so much.

Edwards says we’ve seen this game before (rush to war with Iran). Democrats in congress must be tough.

Obama, this vote also gave the admin the idea that we can go to war anywhere. I disagree with Hillary, I said I would meet with our enemies.

Wolf said Obama missed the vote, and Obama admits it was a mistake.

I want to hear more from Dodd. I’ve been heartily pro-Edwards, but Dodd is my hero these days for standing up for the Constitution.

OldCoastie @ 106

Edwards calling bullshit on Hillary’s Iran guard terrorist vote.

He is on record for basically saying the same thing.

I have no idea what Obama was talking about.

Okay, I’m gonna drag my knuckles here for a minute. Does HRC overcompensate for being a female by displaying testicular tendencies of state-sanctioned violence?

OldCoastie @ 117

I have no idea what Obama was talking about.

He knows a lot of words.

leslie @ 87

did Biden just say Bush should be impeached?

i love the “I” word. it took me awhile, but scarecrow has been making good arguments for a long time and i’m a believer now.

our candidates are going to have to find a way to explain why they are gonna need a whole lot of money to rebuild the military and replace all the equipment.

Question, disparity in pay between contractors and soldiers.

richardson says he would pull out the contractors and the soldiers. Two more divisions in marines and army. Take care of education and healthcare for veterans. Mental health care.

LindaR @ 118

OldCoastie @ 117

I have no idea what Obama was talking about.

He knows a lot of words.

He’s good at looking like he is listening.

LindaR @ 115

I want to hear more from Dodd. I’ve been heartily pro-Edwards, but Dodd is my hero these days for standing up for the Constitution.

I feel the same way.

Richardson is doing better recently, too.

Oilfieldguy @ 117

Okay, I’m gonna drag my knuckles here for a minute. Does HRC overcompensate for being a female by displaying testicular tendencies of state-sanctioned violence?

Yes, she is required to apparently.

pow wow @ 112

Quick off-topic heads-up, that this morning’s Senate Judiciary Committee business meeting to amend FISA will be broadcast on C-SPAN 2 starting at about 10 p.m. Eastern tonight. [C-SPAN came through…]

Mahalo, pow wow, for that!

Seems like all the questioners tonight will be raped & pillaged by the Rs tomorrow.

pow wow @ 112

Quick off-topic heads-up, that this morning’s Senate Judiciary Committee business meeting to amend FISA will be broadcast on C-SPAN 2 starting at about 10 p.m. Eastern tonight. [C-SPAN came through…]

Thanks pow wow.

OldCoastie and LooHoo~

thanks for the responses.

LindaR @ 118

OldCoastie @ 117

I have no idea what Obama was talking about.

He knows a lot of words.

he most certainly does.

OldCoastie and LooHoo . . . Thanks for the clarification.

Question, what about the illegal surveillance.

Edwards, racial profiling has to stop. Illegal spying on Americans. Close Guantanamo, no renditions. NO TORTURE.

Yeah-Edwards: NO torture.

Steve-AR @ 115

OldCoastie @ 106

Edwards calling bullshit on Hillary’s Iran guard terrorist vote.

He is on record for basically saying the same thing.

Please bring an end to this Bush-Clinton-Bush- era. No more Bushes and no more Clintons. Certainly, no more Republics.

HRC is a hawk … part of her basic politics …is it also a gender compensation, not sure though I think she feels she needs to be “tough” but so do so many male Dems.

Kucinich!

Edwards, ‘Close Gitmo’! DK, “…thats because I read it!”

pow wow @ 112

Quick off-topic heads-up, that this morning’s Senate Judiciary Committee business meeting to amend FISA will be broadcast on C-SPAN 2 starting at about 10 p.m. Eastern tonight. [C-SPAN came through…]

excellent!

after it’s been broadcast, the archived webstream will be available here:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/.....d=202339-1

DK-good one: didn’t vote for PATRIOT Act because he read it.

Eureka Springs @ 135

Kucinich!

Yes!

Kucinich gets applause for saying he read the Patriot Act.

Slamming other senators for past votes. Imagine having a president who is right the first time. Impeachment, and the crowd goes wild.

Gotta love Kucinich!!!

Impeach NOW!

just imagine whatit would be like to have a president that’s right the first time!

Go Dennis !

Impeachment Now!!!

Huge cheers for impeachment both times it was mentioned.

Good for Dennis!

Biden’s defending PATRIOT Act!

Lemme see if I got this right?

Hillary says that she will start drawing down immediately in Iraq once elected, but leaving enough combat troops there to deal with Al Qaida. She wants Congress to cut off the funding if Bush doesn’t agree to immediate draw downs and scheduled plan to withdraw.

Edwards says he will start drawing down troop levels immediately by 40,000 and leave one Brigade in the country to protect the embassy and humanitarian workers. But he will leave several Divisions just across the border to attack Al Qaida and deal with the civil war in Iraq.

Of course that will make them targets in Kuwait, and they WILL be back in Iraq, and have to establish forward bases near the fighting. They aren’t gonna commute daily off to the battle zones. That’s not how an effective war is fought, Johnnie.

Sorry Edward’s supporters, I have to say it! But Hillary’s and Johnnie’s positions in Iraq are about as different as a “Juicy Wet” and a “Silent But Deadly” Fart. You might not HEAR Johnnie’s sound as bad…but it still stinks.

Of course, the Republicans’ are still out there off loading piles of Sh*t, in comparison.

And then there are their positions on Iran and Palestine…do you want my “comparisons” on THAT?

Unfortunately, the way these debates are run they only give Obama, Edwards, and Clinton any face time. And if any of the other candidates got just a little bit more they’d replace Edward’s as third place.

Kucinich is knocking them out of the park! He was right the first time.

Scarecrow @ 67

Best statements by each candidate so far?

It’s called Impeach! Do it now!

-DK

I’d bet my next paycheck that you concur.

Biden’s irritating me tonight.

Sometimes he doesn’t.

DK: Impeachment now. Don’t wait. Impeach! Now!

Biden: Patriot Act does not authorize racial profiling.

Kucinich wins in my book!!!!

Loo Hoo. @ 141

Kucinich gets applause for saying he read the Patriot Act.

Slamming other senators for past votes. Imagine having a president who is right the first time. Impeachment, and the crowd goes wild.

DK deserves more time … Bravo !!!

musicsleuth @ 144

Huge cheers for impeachment both times it was mentioned.

Too bad that it’s off the table and the Dem leadership is watching “My Name Is Earl” and “The Office”.

Scarecrow @ 67

Best statements by each candidate so far?

kucinich just had a couple:
on his vote against the patriot act - that’s because i read it
on impeachment - impeach now!

Why bash Obama? He’s hella smart. He’s running second. And he’s MUCH better than Clinton.

OldCoastie @ 151

Biden’s irritating me tonight.

Sometimes he doesn’t.

It seems to me that Biden is pissed off and doens’t give a dman.

cinnamonape - good point …. folks want to hear them all say they’ll end the war, none of the frontrunners will but they sure have creative ways of not telling us that.

The biggest applause of the night…IMPEACHMENT!!!

Badwater @ 155

musicsleuth @ 144

Huge cheers for impeachment both times it was mentioned.

Too bad that it’s off the table and the Dem leadership is watching “My Name Is Earl” and “The Office”.

Well, maybe the writer’s strike is a good thing….

AnnieW @ 157

OldCoastie @ 151

Biden’s irritating me tonight.

Sometimes he doesn’t.

It seems to me that Biden is pissed off and doens’t give a dman.

He’s more honest like that. It’s great!

Richardson: Dennis, quit including me in all these votes. I’m a governor, not in DC.

I declared an immigration emergency and was first. No fence, it doesn’t work.

Fern @ 44

Slothrop @ 37

Have to admit, I’m feeling more and more comfortable about Senator Clinton.

Shocking.

I know. Weird. Me too.

Kucinich will forever get the short end of the stick but between HRC and Obama, HRC is a more consummate strategic thinker.

Biden, it’s not about who was right when. What will you do now?

Question. No terrorists from our southern border.

Richardson, we need to bring the country together. Called a border emergency. Stop demonizing immigrants.
1. Secure the border
2. Employers
3. Foreign policy with our neighbors. Stop handing out maps
4. Path to legalization

If I had to choose a watchdog out of all of these people, I would chose a Kucinch!!!

Didn’t know Dodd is fluent in Spanish.

selise @ 156

Scarecrow @ 67

Best statements by each candidate so far?

kucinich just had a couple:
on his vote against the patriot act - that’s because i read it
on impeachment - impeach now!

Alas and Alack, Ma Cheri, they will not appear anywhere within the MSM’s post debate spin… 8-(

118 - yes
139 - I think Dennis stole that from Feingold a few years back ;)

eCAHNomics @ 167

Didn’t know Dodd is fluent in Spanish.

Peace Corps

Dodd speaks spanish! He belongs here in L.A. and not in CT!

In a better world, Chris Dodd would be the front runner.

LS @ 165

If I had to choose a watchdog out of all of these people, I would chose a Kucinch!!!

As much as he may say what we want to hear do you really, truly, honestly think he has a better chance than I do of being elected President?

dodd did it!

eCAHNomics @ 167

Didn’t know Dodd is fluent in Spanish.

Wasn’t he a Peace Corps member in SA?

Mike Dukakis speaks Spanish too. Good luck.

Badwater @ 81

eCAHNomics @ 69

It’s the nuclear waste, not the plants. Navy probably just dumps it in the ocean.

Simply not true.

IIRC I think they store it at the Concord Naval Weapons Station. They want to ship it Harry Reid’s state but he’s blocked it. So there it sits…right in the midst of the Bay Area.

selise @ 174

dodd did it!

a
are you sure it wasn’t Clinton?

LS @ 160

The biggest applause of the night…IMPEACHMENT!!!

And Wolfie tried to stop it!

CTuttle @ 175

eCAHNomics @ 167

Didn’t know Dodd is fluent in Spanish.

Wasn’t he a Peace Corps member in SA?

I think he said the Dominican Republic.

Slothrop @ 175

Mike Dukakis speaks Spanish too. Good luck.

Bush pretends to speak spanish.

I have a 200lb mastiff, whose protective capacities can’t compare to my tough little “Moon” who will kick anybody’s butt, because of his tenacity and his “posture”. Size is not a factor.

Tenacity!!!

Obama - take some of the SS money back? How about taking all of it back…

hackworth @ 180

CTuttle @ 175

Wasn’t he a Peace Corps member in SA?

I think he said the Dominican Republic.

My Bad!

cinnamonape @ 147

Lemme see if I got this right?

Hillary says that she will start drawing down immediately in Iraq once elected, but leaving enough combat troops there to deal with Al Qaida. She wants Congress to cut off the funding if Bush doesn’t agree to immediate draw downs and scheduled plan to withdraw.

Edwards says he will start drawing down troop levels immediately by 40,000 and leave one Brigade in the country to protect the embassy and humanitarian workers. But he will leave several Divisions just across the border to attack Al Qaida and deal with the civil war in Iraq.

Of course that will make them targets in Kuwait, and they WILL be back in Iraq, and have to establish forward bases near the fighting. They aren’t gonna commute daily off to the battle zones. That’s not how an effective war is fought, Johnnie.

Sorry Edward’s supporters, I have to say it! But Hillary’s and Johnnie’s positions in Iraq are about as different as a “Juicy Wet” and a “Silent But Deadly” Fart. You might not HEAR Johnnie’s sound as bad…but it still stinks.

Of course, the Republicans’ are still out there off loading piles of Sh*t, in comparison.

And then there are their positions on Iran and Palestine…do you want my “comparisons” on THAT?

Unfortunately, the way these debates are run they only give Obama, Edwards, and Clinton any face time. And if any of the other candidates got just a little bit more they’d replace Edward’s as third place.

That’s my conclusion..no difference in policy..The question is who will destroy the Republicans. Not Obama..it’s either Hill or Edwards.

Badwater @ 63

S.iun @ 10

noted Obama said we needed “improved nuclear” to solve energy crisis … argh

The nuclear navy as sailed for decades with nearly zero problems. The know-how exists, but perhaps it’s part of the government and not the private sector. That’s blasphemy to Republics, but they live in a fantasy world.

submarines-

Thresher

and that Russian one(where the sailors were tapping on the inside to let the world know they weren’t dead and their govt wouldn’t call for international expertise and they died)
what was it’s name again?

These people are asking good questions.

Obama is right on Social Security - raise the cap above $97,000 annual income.

cinnamonape @ 177

Badwater @ 81

Simply not true.

IIRC I think they store it at the Concord Naval Weapons Station. They want to ship it Harry Reid’s state but he’s blocked it. So there it sits…right in the midst of the Bay Area.

Regardless of what should be done with it…I don’t see that other states should take waste produced elsewhere. There is no “good” place for it.

Marion in Savannah @ 173

LS @ 165

If I had to choose a watchdog out of all of these people, I would chose a Kucinch!!!

As much as he may say what we want to hear do you really, truly, honestly think he has a better chance than I do of being elected President?

Yes, I do.

Elliott @ 178

selise @ 174

dodd did it!

a
are you sure it wasn’t Clinton?

i can’t quote him, but he said that our rights are part of our security - it’s a false choice to say we can only have one of them.

Social Security.

Obama, adjust the cap. Warren Buffet pays a fraction of 1%. Medicare is a tougher problem.

Clinton,

Barack just made my favorite point about the cap on FICA taxes.

Obama is great at the filibuster

Badwater @ 181

Slothrop @ 175

Mike Dukakis speaks Spanish too. Good luck.

Bush pretends to speak spanish.

bush also pretends to speak english.

LS @ 181

I have a 200lb mastiff, whose protective capacities can’t compare to my tough little “Moon” who will kick anybody’s butt, because of his tenacity and his “posture”. Size is not a factor.

Tenacity!!!

I have four 10-20lb Shih Tzus. Just doesn’t add up. But they’re very cool.

selise @ 191

Elliott @ 178

a
are you sure it wasn’t Clinton?

i can’t quote him, but he said that our rights are part of our security - it’s a false choice to say we can only have one of them.

Oh!

I like that, sorry selise for misinterpreting you.

I suspect Hillary will be better on Social Security… don’t know why I think that, but I do…

Obama sounds like he would ration Medicare for the chronically ill… which may be smart fiscally, but I don’t know what kind of problems that will make for those that are sick.

eCAHNomics @ 167

Didn’t know Dodd is fluent in Spanish.

When Univision had a debate, Dodd and Richardson were both blocked from speaking Spanish as it was felt to be unfair to the other candidates.

LindaR @ 193

Barack just made my favorite point about the cap on FICA taxes.

we need a lockbox first, or else it will just be spent for other stuff.

cinnamonape @ 177

Badwater @ 81

Simply not true.

IIRC I think they store it at the Concord Naval Weapons Station. They want to ship it Harry Reid’s state but he’s blocked it. So there it sits…right in the midst of the Bay Area.

They have shoveled it overboard into the middle of the Atlantic in the 1950’s, I’ve seen credible sources mention it recently…

Ooohs & boos when Obama called Hillary out on her #s.

Jason leopold at truthout did a video interview with valerie plame that is worth viewing. Its a two parter but very watchable.

Its clear Plame respects leopold. Leopold also mentions his rove story, which I thought took guts

Anyway fwiw, it was interesting.

Obama — bam. This is what I expect from Mitt Romney or Rudy Guliani…. This is not the middle class.

Elliott @ 197

selise @ 191

i can’t quote him, but he said that our rights are part of our security - it’s a false choice to say we can only have one of them.

Oh!

I like that, sorry selise for misinterpreting you.

not your fault - unless you read minds! i shouldn’t have been so cryptic.

Two hours is a long time.
Keep going Loo Hoo.
You’re doing great!
(I know I’m getting tired, I just found myself thinking something about Clinton’s hair.) Agh me!

hackworth @ 188

Obama is right on Social Security - raise the cap above $97,000 annual income.

$250,000 cap would fully fund all of SSA’s debt obligations…

The boos form HRC’s camp were drowned out.

Clinton, fiscal responsibility or we can’t tackle any of these problems. Bipartisan commission.

Obama says don’t play with number, and pretend that the top 6% is the middle class.

Clinton, look at this across the board. I represent firefighters, etc. Commission looks at everything, and let them create a plan.

Bipartisan…. Not likely in this day and age. Thanks, Newt Gingrich.

may @ 185

Badwater @ 63

The nuclear navy as sailed for decades with nearly zero problems. The know-how exists, but perhaps it’s part of the government and not the private sector. That’s blasphemy to Republics, but they live in a fantasy world.

submarines-

Thresher

and that Russian one(where the sailors were tapping on the inside to let the world know they weren’t dead and their govt wouldn’t call for international expertise and they died)
what was it’s name again?

The Thresher was one incident over many decades of nuclear powered U.S. Navy ships. The Russian Navy is not the same and ought not to be considered an equal.

demi @ 206

Two hours is a long time.
Keep going Loo Hoo.
You’re doing great!
(I know I’m getting tired, I just found myself thinking something about Clinton’s hair.) Agh me!

Gawd…I did too.

get rid of the upside cap completely on SS taxes and raise a floor to exempt the worker’s portion of the first 10K of income.

Hillary kowtowing to Republicans calling Obama’s idea a tax increase. Bipartisanship - blah blah. IOW, she ain’t sayin’ nuthin bout any SS plans.

Did HRC accuse Obama of proposing a tax cut for saying the top 6% should pay more for social security?

Badwater @ 196

LS @ 181

I have a 200lb mastiff, whose protective capacities can’t compare to my tough little “Moon” who will kick anybody’s butt, because of his tenacity and his “posture”. Size is not a factor.

Tenacity!!!

I have four 10-20lb Shih Tzus. Just doesn’t add up. But they’re very cool.

They sound cute!!

Badwater @ 211

may @ 185

submarines-

Thresher

and that Russian one(where the sailors were tapping on the inside to let the world know they weren’t dead and their govt wouldn’t call for international expertise and they died)
what was it’s name again?

The Thresher was one incident over many decades of nuclear powered U.S. Navy ships. The Russian Navy is not the same and ought not to be considered an equal.

radioactivity doesn’t know about borders or ideology.

Marion in Savannah @ 210

Bipartisan…. Not likely in this day and age. Thanks, Newt Gingrich.

One of my pet peeves is that every time anyone complains about lack of bipartisanship, they never credit its destroyer. Grrrrr.

CTuttle @ 199

cinnamonape @ 177

IIRC I think they store it at the Concord Naval Weapons Station. They want to ship it Harry Reid’s state but he’s blocked it. So there it sits…right in the midst of the Bay Area.

They have shoveled it overboard into the middle of the Atlantic in the 1950’s, I’ve seen credible sources mention it recently…

The 50’s were 50 years ago, but let’s see the evidence.

LindaR @ 212

get rid of the upside cap completely on SS taxes and raise a floor to exempt the worker’s portion of the first 10K of income.

Sounds good to me.

LindaR @ 212

get rid of the upside cap completely on SS taxes and raise a floor to exempt the worker’s portion of the first 10K of income.

If the upside cap is completely gone, exempt the first $20,000. Fewer people will go hungry. Possible?

Tithonia @ 39

Clinton and Obama are doing well. IMHO

How is Edwards doing - just got here - darn.

Siun @ 215

Did HRC accuse Obama of proposing a tax cut for saying the top 6% should pay more for social security?

That didn’t make sense to me either. Why don’t they have instant replays and slo-mo on these debates?

Aaaiieee! The HughesNet lady!

Marion in Savannah @ 210

Bipartisan…. Not likely in this day and age. Thanks, Newt Gingrich.

Heh, KKKRove and Delay, are more deserving of that scorn…

eCAHNomics @ 217

Marion in Savannah @ 210

Bipartisan…. Not likely in this day and age. Thanks, Newt Gingrich.

One of my pet peeves is that every time anyone complains about lack of bipartisanship, they never credit its destroyer. Grrrrr.

At least some of us are old enough to remember, and stubborn enough to keep reminding people!

Supreme Court!

Badwater @ 211

may @ 185

submarines-

Thresher

and that Russian one(where the sailors were tapping on the inside to let the world know they weren’t dead and their govt wouldn’t call for international expertise and they died)
what was it’s name again?

The Thresher was one incident over many decades of nuclear powered U.S. Navy ships. The Russian Navy is not the same and ought not to be considered an equal.

my cousin’s cousin was a submarine commander in the Navy and what you say may be true, but when the Kursk happened, it was obvious they were brothers deep down to the core.

Marion in Savannah @ 220

LindaR @ 212

get rid of the upside cap completely on SS taxes and raise a floor to exempt the worker’s portion of the first 10K of income.

If the upside cap is completely gone, exempt the first $20,000. Fewer people will go hungry. Possible?

Good idea if the numbers support it.

newspaperbrat @ 221

Tithonia @ 39

Clinton and Obama are doing well. IMHO

How is Edwards doing - just got here - darn.

I love Edwards - but I think he’s fading to the background. I can’t quite figure out why. He’s charming but maybe not forceful enough.

They need to keep slamming the neocon takeover of our democracy. Constitution, rule of law, torture, extraordinary renditions, war. Don’t slam each other, just attack, attack, ATTACK!!! Control the media!!!!

LS @ 215

Badwater @ 196

I have four 10-20lb Shih Tzus. Just doesn’t add up. But they’re very cool.

They sound cute!!

I cannot even describe how cute they are as a pack. Their groomer lets them run free in her store because they are so cute together.

Loo Hoo. @ 223

Siun @ 215

Did HRC accuse Obama of proposing a tax cut for saying the top 6% should pay more for social security?

That didn’t make sense to me either. Why don’t they have instant replays and slo-mo on these debates?

Hills accused Obama of raising taxes. It was a cheap shot. Disingenuous pandering to conservatives on Hills part.

CTuttle @ 224

Marion in Savannah @ 210

Bipartisan…. Not likely in this day and age. Thanks, Newt Gingrich.

Heh, KKKRove and Delay, are more deserving of that scorn…

Newt started it.

I dunno. I’m starting to like that Kucinich character.

Biden’s terrible on Supremes. He wants a dog catcher?

Tithonia @ 230

newspaperbrat @ 221

How is Edwards doing - just got here - darn.

I love Edwards - but I think he’s fading to the background. I can’t quite figure out why. He’s charming but maybe not forceful enough.

do you think he’s too pleasant?

Question, Supreme Court justices-would you require they are pro-choice.

Dodd, I wouldn’t want a candidate to even consider overturning Roe vs. Wade. No litmus tests.

Biden, I have taken on ideologues. I want someone who has lived life outside of the ivory tower. Wants a woman.

LS @ 231

They need to keep slamming the neocon takeover of our democracy. Constitution, rule of law, torture, extraordinary renditions, war. Don’t slam each other, just attack, attack, ATTACK!!! Control the media!!!!

Yep.

Tithonia @ 229

newspaperbrat @ 221

How is Edwards doing - just got here - darn.

I love Edwards - but I think he’s fading to the background. I can’t quite figure out why. He’s charming but maybe not forceful enough.

It’s too obviously a performance - a good performance - but still.

Biden has been slurring and tripping on his tongue the whole night. Seems to make his points, though. Is Biden a demagogue?

DK, So far best answer on abortion. He has nice ability to reframe Q.

Kucinich is the man. He’s tough, but he’s compassionate. He is so much more enlightened than anyone else on that stage!!! And, the crowd knows it. He’s gotten the biggest applause in this debate.

He speaks truth to power, and that is what we need now.

do you think he’s too pleasant?

Take that last exchange between Obama and Hillary. Would Edwards have done that? I dunno.

eCAHNomics @ 241

DK, So far best answer on abortion. He has nice ability to reframe Q.

While still answering the question.

Kucinich speaks from the gut.

Clinton had nice zing on W: Too bad he didn’t understand how the govt was supposed to work.

eCAHNomics @ 236

Biden’s terrible on Supremes. He wants a dog catcher?

I heard it as wanting someone with life experience not just time in law school to clerking to top line law firms.

LS @ 243

Kucinich is the man. He’s tough, but he’s compassionate. He is so much more enlightened than anyone else on that stage!!! And, the crowd knows it. He’s gotten the biggest applause in this debate.

He speaks truth to power, and that is what we need now.

Kucinich is my favorite too. I wish he were number one.

Theyre talking about the woman’s right to choose. Interestingly, the Chicago Trib today lead headline: “Catholic Bishops say voters’ souls at stake”

And so it begins.

Clinton, they would have to share my views on privacy. Critical. Biden deserves credit because he knows this issue. Bush didn’t understand how our government was supposed to work.

Obama, privacy, yes. The court is supposed to protect people without a lot of clout. We need to find people with life experience and who have been on the outside.

Edwards, R v W as settled law. Someone who will stand up against popular opinion. We need courage and strength.

eCAHNomics @ 247

Clinton had nice zing on W: Too bad he didn’t understand how the govt was supposed to work.

I have always thought this was the biggest issue of the last seven years. No understanding of the amazing US constitution.

eCAHNomics @ 236

Biden’s terrible on Supremes. He wants a dog catcher?

That woman on the Supreme Court remark by Biden struck me as patronizing/pandering….just as Hill’s response praising her blindingly white toothies colleague. But then I’m tired, hungry and increasingly cranky with both.

Edwards brings home what courage in a justice is. He saw it.

eCAHNomics @ 246

Clinton had nice zing on W: Too bad he didn’t understand how the govt was supposed to work.

By making Republics responsible for forcing Bush on this nation, it’s hard to see how any Democratic candidate can lose…given a fair election.

hackworth @ 249

LS @ 243

Kucinich is the man. He’s tough, but he’s compassionate. He is so much more enlightened than anyone else on that stage!!! And, the crowd knows it. He’s gotten the biggest applause in this debate.

He speaks truth to power, and that is what we need now.

Kucinich is my favorite too. I wish he were number one.

I think he is…tonight is the first time he has been given a voice….

He is the only one that consistently says what I am always thinking. Vote with your intuition. The others are so staged and rehearsed. He actually has an opinion in his own mind.

I think this questioner is a little clueless to think that “almost half of the country disagree with your plans for the ME”

On who is sincere or playing…that gets to be a personal perspective. I believe Edwards is sincere. That’s the way I see him. Some people find Obama charismatic. It works for them. It doesn’t work for me.
So, I’m saying beyond what the candidates say about issues, there are other factors, some almost nonverbal.

Oooh. Oooh. Me. Me. I know the answer to this one (how will you handle Middle East with almost half the country not agreeing with you):

A. By the time I’m done campaigning, the vast majority of the country will agree with me.

dakine01 @ 248

eCAHNomics @ 236

Biden’s terrible on Supremes. He wants a dog catcher?

I heard it as wanting someone with life experience not just time in law school to clerking to top line law firms.

That’s what he meant to say, but that’s not how it came across.

Siun @ 97

HRC is spouting all of Bush’s lies on Iran!!!!

anyone need another reason to not support her?

Siun, Did you catch Edward’s speech at the Herzliya Conference??

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0123.html

“”I feel that I understand on a very personal level those threats. The challenges in your own backyard – rise of Islamic radicalism, use of terrorism, and the spread of nuclear technology and weapons of mass destruction – represent an unprecedented threat to the world and Israel.

At the top of these threats is Iran. Iran threatens the security of Israel and the entire world. Let me be clear: Under no circumstances can Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

The Iranian president’s statements such as his description of the Holocaust as a myth and his goals to wipe Israel off the map indicate that Iran is serious about its threats.

Once Iran goes nuclear, other countries in the Middle East will go nuclear, making Israel’s neighborhood much more volatile.

Iran must know that the world won’t back down. The recent UN resolution ordering Iran to halt the enrichment of uranium was not enough. We need meaningful political and economic sanctions. We have muddled along for far too long. To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep ALL options on the table, Let me reiterate – ALL options must remain on the table.

The war in Lebanon had Iranian fingerprints all over it. I was in Israel in June, and I took a helicopter trip over the Lebanese border. I saw the Hezbollah rockets, and the havoc wreaked by the extremism on Israel’s border. Hezbollah is an instrument of the Iranian government, and Iranian rockets allowed Hezbollah to attack and wage war against Israel.

I cannot talk about the war last summer without referring to the Syrian role in destabilizing area. Syria needs to be held accountable. Syria has recently called for peace talks with Israel. Talk is cheap. Syria needs to go long way to prove it is ready for peace. It can start by not harboring terrorists and ending its nefarious relationship with Iran.

While Iran is the greatest threat now, but just as alarming is the one on your doorstep. Hamas, with Iranian support, doesn’t make any mistake of its intentions to wipe out Israel, and repeatedly makes calls to raise the banner of Allah over all of Israel. Israel made many concessions. Many settlers gave up there land in order to advance peace.

My analysis of Iran is if you start with the President of Iran coming to the UN in New York denouncing America and his extraordinary and nasty statements about the Holocaust and goal of wiping Israel off map, married with his attempts to obtain nuclear weapons over a long period of time, they are buying time. They are the foremost state sponsors of terrorism. If they have nuclear weapons, other states in the area will want them, and this is unacceptable.

As to what to do, we should not take anything off the table. More serious sanctions need to be undertaken, which cannot happen unless Russia and China are seriously on board, which has not happened up until now. I would not want to say in advance what we would do, and what I would do as president, but there are other steps that need to be taken. For example, we need to support direct engagement with Iranians, we need to be tough. But I think it is a mistake strategically to avoid engagement with Iran.

As to the American people, this is a difficult question. The vast majority of people are concerned about what is going on in Iraq. This will make the American people reticent toward going for Iran. But I think the American people are smart if they are told the truth, and if they trust their president. So Americans can be educated to come along with what needs to be done with Iran.“

Follow on sheep! Baaahhhh! Baaaahhh!

Obama gets on my nerves when he starts the bipartisanship schtick… that is the moment I just don’t believe him (shades of Liberman)

leslie @ 250

Theyre talking about the woman’s right to choose. Interestingly, the Chicago Trib today lead headline: “Catholic Bishops say voters’ souls at stake”

And so it begins.

The soul of the Catholic Church is at stake. Backing warmongering Republicans who hurt working people and the poor is evil. So is protecting and hiding pedophiles in the church.

eCAHNomics @ 259

Oooh. Oooh. Me. Me. I know the answer to this one (how will you handle Middle East with almost half the country not agreeing with you):

A. By the time I’m done campaigning, the vast majority of the country will agree with me.

BaBa DING!

eCAHNomics @ 259

dakine01 @ 248

I heard it as wanting someone with life experience not just time in law school to clerking to top line law firms.

That’s what he meant to say, but that’s not how it came across.

It may take years to neutralize the Bush toadies now on the Court.

Question, the country is divided, what message will you offer America on day one.

Obama, I can do it better than Hillary. I would convene a biparisan continuous advisory meeting on security issues. Let the rest of the world know our values are back. Talk to enemies and friends.

Clinton, I am running for president of the entire country (in answer to Wolf’s statement that she is a divider.) There will be differences. We won’t wake up one morning and be united, it will take work. I will listen to all Americans, not just politicians.

I’m still waiting for a candidate to say that a woman has a right to control her own body…

but we will never hear that! (such a shocking statement)

I would really like to several debates without the three front runners. Just Kucinich, Dodd, Biden, Richards.

Siun @ 135

HRC is a hawk … part of her basic politics …is it also a gender compensation, not sure though I think she feels she needs to be “tough” but so do so many male Dems.

Thank you Siun. I am the one, as I thought, seeing with Cyclopsian tunnel vision.

Heh, I just made that word up. Geddit?

demi @ 257

On who is sincere or playing…that gets to be a personal perspective. I believe Edwards is sincere. That’s the way I see him. Some people find Obama charismatic. It works for them. It doesn’t work for me.
So, I’m saying beyond what the candidates say about issues, there are other factors, some almost nonverbal.

Just realized what it is for me with Edwards (who most days I would like to see as the Dem candidate) - the accent, and my associations with the accent, and personal reactions to people who appear to have a lot of charm. Hard for me to believe someone can be that charming and also sincere.

Prejudices, in other words.

I think Richardson is doing pretty well for himself tonight.

Loo Hoo. @ 265

Question, the country is divided, what message will you offer America on day one.

Obama, I can do it better than Hillary. I would convene a biparisan continuous advisory meeting on security issues. Let the rest of the world know our values are back. Talk to enemies and friends.

Clinton, I am running for president of the entire country (in answer to Wolf’s statement that she is a divider.) There will be differences. We won’t wake up one morning and be united, it will take work. I will listen to all Americans, not just politicians.

Divided? Bush has united the country like never before against him. Too bad the Democratic Congress isn’t paying attention.

Biden says he hs gained the respect of his Republican colleagues. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

OldCoastie @ 267

I’m still waiting for a candidate to say that a woman has a right to control her own body…

but we will never hear that! (such a shocking statement)

Saying they believe in privacy is about as close to that as we’ll probably get.

OldCoastie @ 267

I’m still waiting for a candidate to say that a woman has a right to control her own body…

but we will never hear that! (such a shocking statement)

Reframing it in terms of privacy is pretty good, esp if you point out (as Hillary? did) that nothing else in the Bill of Rights makes any sense if you don’t have the right of privacy.

Here is the difference between Kucinich and the others…they make empty, impossible promises that they know they cannot achieve…

Kucinich tells the people that the reason justice and compassion cannot be achieved is because of the situation the country is in, and it has to be changed. He does not make promises based within the current parameters, he knows the situation is dire and has to change in order to make the needed changes in the world.

That is what the world needs. On war, on global warming, on the basic outlook of human beings. Future generations need that kind of foresight, now. The planet can’t wait.

Question to Clinton, diamonds or pearls. Clinton…BOTH!

Ugh! BAD choice of final question.

Fern @ 270

demi @ 257

On who is sincere or playing…that gets to be a personal perspective. I believe Edwards is sincere. That’s the way I see him. Some people find Obama charismatic. It works for them. It doesn’t work for me.
So, I’m saying beyond what the candidates say about issues, there are other factors, some almost nonverbal.

Just realized what it is for me with Edwards (who most days I would like to see as the Dem candidate) - the accent, and my associations with the accent, and personal reactions to people who appear to have a lot of charm. Hard for me to believe someone can be that charming and also sincere.

Prejudices, in other words.

Yes, indeedy.

Cinnamonape @261 … Thanks for the link and the info - I knew about the speech but having the link is awesome.

I liked Edwards last time and I like a lot of what he says but his willingness to pander to the Israeli lobby has ruled him out for me. My take is that he has no idea what he’s talking about and so just goes along with the A*P*C line ….which scares me a lot since I don’t think he understands the error or the danger.

eCAHNomics @ 275

OldCoastie @ 267

I’m still waiting for a candidate to say that a woman has a right to control her own body…

but we will never hear that! (such a shocking statement)

Reframing it in terms of privacy is pretty good, esp if you point out (as Hillary? did) that nothing else in the Bill of Rights makes any sense if you don’t have the right of privacy.

Close, but no cigar.

Eureka Springs @ 267

I would really like to several debates without the three front runners. Just Kucinich, Dodd, Biden, Richards.

Acually, I’d love to see a brokered convention…just once…before I die.

Tithonia @ 278

Ugh! BAD choice of final question.

Silly season planted question to get them off the stage. Stupid.

Ended with a female version of “Boxers or Briefs?”

Hugh @ 273

Biden says he hs gained the respect of his Republican colleagues. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Puts him in the toilet, AFAIC.

Eureka Springs @ 268

I would really like to several debates without the three front runners. Just Kucinich, Dodd, Biden, Richards.

Good one, me too!!

AC, Hill stumbled and Obama caught fire?

Oilfieldguy @ 269

Siun @ 135

HRC is a hawk … part of her basic politics …is it also a gender compensation, not sure though I think she feels she needs to be “tough” but so do so many male Dems.

Thank you Siun. I am the one, as I thought, seeing with Cyclopsian tunnel vision.

Heh, I just made that word up. Geddit?

Scholarly book titled “King of the Mountain” studied ALL the leaders of all countries in the world in the 20th C. Conclusion: alpha males, even much more than 50% in democracies. Of the 2% who were female, most were either daughters of or wives of.

So with thos odds, what do you expect?

OFG - I think so many of them - male and female - think the way to win is to compete over who has the biggest balls … not a good approach in a global era.

Here comes the spin, doo doo, doo doo…

May I please be excused and not have to watch the talking heads babble? I can’t afford to buy a new TV after I chuck a brick through this one…

Who is the lame infobabe on this video feed?

CTuttle @ 287

AC, Hill stumbled and Obama caught fire?

AC said that was the last debate, and this time it was the opposite.

OK. CNN post game — JC Watts and Gergen??? Nice balance there, people.

Marion in Savannah @ 283

Tithonia @ 278

Ugh! BAD choice of final question.

Silly season planted question to get them off the stage. Stupid.

You called that right. They really insult one’s intelligence. Brass balls at CNN.

And Obama’s position on Iran is not much different than Hillary’s. If you start digging into the primary info..there is little difference between the top three.

I tuned in a little late… I thought Hillary did well, Edwards did OK but was rather missing from the last half hour, Obama? I wasn’t always sure what he was talking about.

Kucinich I enjoyed the most.

FYI, new thread

Good stuff:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/15/debate-iraq/

New Thread…

http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....i/#respond

Siun @ 289

OFG - I think so many of them - male and female - think the way to win is to compete over who has the biggest balls … not a good approach in a global era.

Because compromise is seen as ‘weak’ on a global stage. Frustrating when it’s quite funny that Canada gets on swimmingly with the rest of the world, and in most cases they do just fine with that kind of work.

Marion in Savannah @ 291

May I please be excused and not have to watch the talking heads babble? I can’t afford to buy a new TV after I chuck a brick through this one…

just don’t use your fist - it might hurt.

i’m going to c-span2 to listen to today’s sjc fisa markup meeting.

I am listening to Gergen opine about Hillary and wondering whether we watched the same debate. In my opinion Clinton did not shine. Obama did.

hackworth @ 233

Loo Hoo. @ 223

That didn’t make sense to me either. Why don’t they have instant replays and slo-mo on these debates?

Hills accused Obama of raising taxes. It was a cheap shot. Disingenuous pandering to conservatives on Hills part.

Well for a lotta people who support Hillary making $90,000 makes them Middle Class. So it would be a tax increase on those over $90K (and also on their employers…”matching fund” and all of that)

Jane has new thread upstairs - ;~)

Dennis Kucinich was the only real person on the stage tonight. He continues to be the only real candidate that speaks the truth on the occupation of Iraq, the patriot act, trade with China, NAFTA, universal health care and impeachment. If we want a better America, people need to wake up and vote Kucinich into office. Otherwise it’s just more of the same old, same old and we’ll get the corporate government that we deserve.

Darrell Koerner @ 306

Dennis Kucinich was the only real person on the stage tonight. He continues to be the only real candidate that speaks the truth on the occupation of Iraq, the patriot act, trade with China, NAFTA, universal health care and impeachment. If we want a better America, people need to wake up and vote Kucinich into office. Otherwise it’s just more of the same old, same old and we’ll get the corporate government that we deserve.

right on. and notice how much time he got to speak.
the power brokers want him shut up and shut up good.

Sounds like a good debate, mostly. I await the comentary on it.
On the Navy and Nuclear power and its waste. Deffinitions are important here. A lot of local, state and national rules follow each piece that is classified as waste. I’ve worked in this world for 27 years. You can recieve more radiological exposure from a pack of cigerettes a day than from working in the program. It is an extremely clean program, at least thats my experience. Mind you we turn our waste over to various contractors for disposal and I can’t speak about their actions due to ignorance.

OldCoastie @ 46

I know MY reaction is when Edwards and Obama really get their digs in on Hillary, it makes me mad and I feel like I should be defending her.

may not be fair, I don’t think is working in their favor.

That’s the effect of identity politics.

what is there about Hillary you like? If you like someone you don’t want them taken down, even for valid reasons.

Isn’t it fair to question someone’s methods, character, motivations, truthiness and so on? Aren’t those things we’ve all seen as very important in past presidents?

I see that as essential as their positions on issues. After all, there are a lot of things which pass a president’s desk that we, the public, never even see. How could we judge them on every issue when we aren’t even aware of many of them?

So, judge them on character, intelligence, experience, records, their background, the coherence of their policy suggestions, their ability to present it to the public and so on.

Hillary is great at presenting and has a fantastic campaign team behind her. So did Reagan.

So, if you vote for her because of gender or presentation then you’re still nowhere.

You’ve got to look at the whole package. And, to do that, you have to be willing to let the other candidates ask probing questions and make accusations about her weaknesses. The same goes for other candidates. As I understand it Obama has received a lot of that of late too. I don’t see him calling the race card (”They’re just attacking me because of skin color.”) No, he’s taking the attacks and fighting back, as we would want. Why does Hillary use the gender card?

Do I complain when someone wonders about Edwards position on Iran? No, I wonder what he’s going to say on the issue too. Does that mean he’s unelectable? Of course not. Every candidate is a package of many things and it’s the whole person who must be considered. Who knows, maybe Edwards knows something about Iran that we don’t.

Now, what I want to know on policy is, did Hillary convince Sptizer to drop his driver’s license plan just to please her?

Did Hillary’s campaign convince people to boo Edwards? That would be unfair, right?

Can she take the heat or just promise to pile it on Bushies (who won’t be around in 1/09 anyway)?

Steve-AR @ 78

Slothrop @ 61

No.

Might be.. if the wingnuts are right and she is a commie, soci*l*st, pinko..someone is going to be wrong about Hillary.. but who?

I’ve never heard of a pinko commie socialist Goldwater girl before.

sona @ 164

…

… HRC is a more consummate strategic thinker.

Hillary has a lead by virtue of name recognition and tons of money to run t.v. ads.

So, she campaigns to not let her opponents differentiate themselves and yet to word her statements such that at the end of the day it’s like a tangled plate of spaghetti that doesn’t really mean anything.

She leaves her options open so well that if she gets the nomination and runs in the general election she’ll still sound unspecific. Then if she wins she will be free to do anything at all. Nobody will know what she stands for, though many will think they did when they voted for her.

Can you say buyer’s remorse?

Obama has tried to copy Edwards speeches and tone, but it doesn’t fit him as well as his suits. He also tends to answer questions like John Kerry (long-winded and confusing).

Edwards has been direct to the point and specific. You can bank on it.

I prefer Edwards.

hackworth @ 233

…
Hills accused Obama of raising taxes. It was a cheap shot. Disingenuous pandering to conservatives on Hills part.

Triangulation in action!

Loo Hoo. @ 266

…
Clinton, I am running for president of the entire country (in answer to Wolf’s statement that she is a divider.) …

Well, aren’t they all?

However, if she’s saying she isn’t a Democrat, but a Demopendentpublican, then maybe she should pull out of the primary and run as an Independent, you know, for all the people.

Somehow I don’t think she’s going to do that. She’ll run as a Democrat because she was with Bill all those years while he ran as a Democrat. She’s still a Goldwater girl, but she’ll pretend to be a Dem until she’s got the nomination and then she’ll appear to be just as Republican as Rudy.
Fern @ 270

demi @ 257

On who is sincere or playing…that gets to be a personal perspective. I believe Edwards is sincere. That’s the way I see him. Some people find Obama charismatic. It works for them. It doesn’t work for me.
So, I’m saying beyond what the candidates say about issues, there are other factors, some almost nonverbal.

Just realized what it is for me with Edwards (who most days I would like to see as the Dem candidate) - the accent, and my associations with the accent, and personal reactions to people who appear to have a lot of charm. Hard for me to believe someone can be that charming and also sincere.

Prejudices, in other words.

Fern @ 270

demi @ 257

On who is sincere or playing…that gets to be a personal perspective. I believe Edwards is sincere. …

Just realized what it is for me with Edwards (who most days I would like to see as the Dem candidate) - the accent, and my associations with the accent, and personal reactions to people who appear to have a lot of charm. Hard for me to believe someone can be that charming and also sincere.

Prejudices, in other words.

Maybe that’s why Obama and Clinton were faking a Southern accent when they talked at Southerners. They wanted those people to relate to them without that filter of prejudice. But, can you then say they were sincere?

cinnamonape @ 261

Siun @ 97

HRC is spouting all of Bush’s lies on Iran!!!!

anyone need another reason to not support her?

Siun, Did you catch Edward’s speech at the Herzliya Conference??

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0123.html

“”I feel that I understand on a very personal level those threats. The challenges in your own backyard – rise of Islamic radicalism, use of terrorism, and the spread of nuclear technology and weapons of mass destruction – represent an unprecedented threat to the world and Israel.

At the top of these threats is Iran. Iran threatens the security of Israel and the entire world. Let me be clear: Under no circumstances can Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

The Iranian president’s statements such as his description of the Holocaust as a myth and his goals to wipe Israel off the map indicate that Iran is serious about its threats.

Once Iran goes nuclear, other countries in the Middle East will go nuclear, making Israel’s neighborhood much more volatile.

Iran must know that the world won’t back down. The recent UN resolution ordering Iran to halt the enrichment of uranium was not enough. We need meaningful political and economic sanctions. We have muddled along for far too long. To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep ALL options on the table, Let me reiterate – ALL options must remain on the table.

The war in Lebanon had Iranian fingerprints all over it. I was in Israel in June, and I took a helicopter trip over the Lebanese border. I saw the Hezbollah rockets, and the havoc wreaked by the extremism on Israel’s border. Hezbollah is an instrument of the Iranian government, and Iranian rockets allowed Hezbollah to attack and wage war against Israel.

I cannot talk about the war last summer without referring to the Syrian role in destabilizing area. Syria needs to be held accountable. Syria has recently called for peace talks with Israel. Talk is cheap. Syria needs to go long way to prove it is ready for peace. It can start by not harboring terrorists and ending its nefarious relationship with Iran.

While Iran is the greatest threat now, but just as alarming is the one on your doorstep. Hamas, with Iranian support, doesn’t make any mistake of its intentions to wipe out Israel, and repeatedly makes calls to raise the banner of Allah over all of Israel. Israel made many concessions. Many settlers gave up there land in order to advance peace.

My analysis of Iran is if you start with the President of Iran coming to the UN in New York denouncing America and his extraordinary and nasty statements about the Holocaust and goal of wiping Israel off map, married with his attempts to obtain nuclear weapons over a long period of time, they are buying time. They are the foremost state sponsors of terrorism. If they have nuclear weapons, other states in the area will want them, and this is unacceptable.

As to what to do, we should not take anything off the table. More serious sanctions need to be undertaken, which cannot happen unless Russia and China are seriously on board, which has not happened up until now. I would not want to say in advance what we would do, and what I would do as president, but there are other steps that need to be taken. For example, we need to support direct engagement with Iranians, we need to be tough. But I think it is a mistake strategically to avoid engagement with Iran.

As to the American people, this is a difficult question. The vast majority of people are concerned about what is going on in Iraq. This will make the American people reticent toward going for Iran. But I think the American people are smart if they are told the truth, and if they trust their president. So Americans can be educated to come along with what needs to be done with Iran.“

Follow on sheep! Baaahhhh! Baaaahhh!

I love how you fail to bold some pretty importatn stuff: like–

For example, we need to support direct engagement with Iranians, we need to be tough. But I think it is a mistake strategically to avoid engagement with Iran.

CNN allowed a rude and unruly audience to overpower the candidates with their applause and boos. (Methinks the boos were from Hillary’s staff.) Wolf talked entirely too much. And Richardson proves how stupid he is every time he opens his mouth. Hillary was back on her game, and I still can’t stand her. I still support John Edwards.