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	<title>Comments on: Lies, Damned Lies and Bush Lies</title>
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		<title>By: Dick Mulliken</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098271</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick Mulliken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098271</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Friends, this post lays out the core progressive issue.  And what should be the core Democratic Party issue. This is what the party has stood for, from Mr Jefferson through Mr. Jackson to FDR.  2 derivatives here: 1)the DLC and the Blue Dogs are not with us. Not part of any democratic party worth the name.2) unless you put this at the center of your agenda you can forget your feminism, your ecology and all the rest.  How you handle this will determine whether you have any money or energy left for all the rest.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friends, this post lays out the core progressive issue.  And what should be the core Democratic Party issue. This is what the party has stood for, from Mr Jefferson through Mr. Jackson to FDR.  2 derivatives here: 1)the DLC and the Blue Dogs are not with us. Not part of any democratic party worth the name.2) unless you put this at the center of your agenda you can forget your feminism, your ecology and all the rest.  How you handle this will determine whether you have any money or energy left for all the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098240</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098240</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098112&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;coyne @ 11&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;as a teamster going through contract negotiation at this very moment, it is clear, the corporate message won. johnny q has been willing to shoot his own feet for these corporate rat bastards. every night i listen to the 23%ers in the lunch room. they listen to rush and they walk in lock step. they are going down with this admin no matter what, even at the cost of their own job.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One of the most disheartening things about organizing I learned in another incarnation when Teamsters for a Decent Contract was formed back in 1975. Guys were all gung-ho until you asked them to take a stand and hand out some flyers or stand up at a local meeting to ask a simple question.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They wouldn’t do it, no matter how many times they’d promised. I was in Local 804 when Ron Carey was local president during the strike that sold us out and brought in part-timers to UPS in 1974 to positions they hadn’t held before. Carey let the company bring in part-timers because they paid into the health and welfare fund while not getting full coverage in return. But he local got its money, and the gangsters on the executive board took their cuts. Three guys from that executive board went to jail for RICO violations.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But don’t give up. We just passed an anniversary in this country that everyone knows as Veteran’s Day. In my house it’s known as Haymarket Day, the day the government murdered four anarchists in Chicago after a demonstrably rigged trial. For twenty years or more after those hangings workers in this country remembered Haymarket. The convenient end of the war date of 11 November ended that. Just another piece of lost history like the teamster rebellion in Minnesota during the 30s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Spread the word to those 23%s…when the economy finally hits rock bottom their heroes won’t be there to bail them out, they will be calling them whiners and complainers. That’s when you get to sit back and smile.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1098112"><em>coyne @ 11</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>as a teamster going through contract negotiation at this very moment, it is clear, the corporate message won. johnny q has been willing to shoot his own feet for these corporate rat bastards. every night i listen to the 23%ers in the lunch room. they listen to rush and they walk in lock step. they are going down with this admin no matter what, even at the cost of their own job.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>One of the most disheartening things about organizing I learned in another incarnation when Teamsters for a Decent Contract was formed back in 1975. Guys were all gung-ho until you asked them to take a stand and hand out some flyers or stand up at a local meeting to ask a simple question.</p>
<p>They wouldn’t do it, no matter how many times they’d promised. I was in Local 804 when Ron Carey was local president during the strike that sold us out and brought in part-timers to UPS in 1974 to positions they hadn’t held before. Carey let the company bring in part-timers because they paid into the health and welfare fund while not getting full coverage in return. But he local got its money, and the gangsters on the executive board took their cuts. Three guys from that executive board went to jail for RICO violations.</p>
<p>But don’t give up. We just passed an anniversary in this country that everyone knows as Veteran’s Day. In my house it’s known as Haymarket Day, the day the government murdered four anarchists in Chicago after a demonstrably rigged trial. For twenty years or more after those hangings workers in this country remembered Haymarket. The convenient end of the war date of 11 November ended that. Just another piece of lost history like the teamster rebellion in Minnesota during the 30s.</p>
<p>Spread the word to those 23%s…when the economy finally hits rock bottom their heroes won’t be there to bail them out, they will be calling them whiners and complainers. That’s when you get to sit back and smile.</p>
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		<title>By: pma</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098188</link>
		<dc:creator>pma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098188</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098183&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;pma @ 44&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098153&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Christy Hardin Smith @ 39&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;pma at 25 — I did see it and, in all honesty, I thought it was a pretty accurate depiction of what a lot of law firms are going through with younger lawyers these days — just based on complaints that I have heard and things I have seen first hand, both from defense and plaintiffs’ firms..  It’s a weird dividing line between how “highly trained” work force folks are treated and “everyone else.”  And it was weird to see it presented so starkly without a “the other half” backdrop, too.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, that’s what my wife thought and I did not a mention of Harvard.  Still, it really jangled with my perception of the employment market.  I have three kids with degrees from state colleges, and while they have jobs, it essentially seems like and employers market.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry, I meant “I did note a mention of Harvard.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1098183"><em>pma @ 44</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1098153"><em>Christy Hardin Smith @ 39</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>pma at 25 — I did see it and, in all honesty, I thought it was a pretty accurate depiction of what a lot of law firms are going through with younger lawyers these days — just based on complaints that I have heard and things I have seen first hand, both from defense and plaintiffs’ firms..  It’s a weird dividing line between how “highly trained” work force folks are treated and “everyone else.”  And it was weird to see it presented so starkly without a “the other half” backdrop, too.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, that’s what my wife thought and I did not a mention of Harvard.  Still, it really jangled with my perception of the employment market.  I have three kids with degrees from state colleges, and while they have jobs, it essentially seems like and employers market.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sorry, I meant “I did note a mention of Harvard.”</p>
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		<title>By: pma</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098183</link>
		<dc:creator>pma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098183</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098153&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Christy Hardin Smith @ 39&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;pma at 25 — I did see it and, in all honesty, I thought it was a pretty accurate depiction of what a lot of law firms are going through with younger lawyers these days — just based on complaints that I have heard and things I have seen first hand, both from defense and plaintiffs’ firms..  It’s a weird dividing line between how “highly trained” work force folks are treated and “everyone else.”  And it was weird to see it presented so starkly without a “the other half” backdrop, too.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, that’s what my wife thought and I did not a mention of Harvard.  Still, it really jangled with my perception of the employment market.  I have three kids with degrees from state colleges, and while they have jobs, it essentially seems like and employers market.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1098153"><em>Christy Hardin Smith @ 39</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>pma at 25 — I did see it and, in all honesty, I thought it was a pretty accurate depiction of what a lot of law firms are going through with younger lawyers these days — just based on complaints that I have heard and things I have seen first hand, both from defense and plaintiffs’ firms..  It’s a weird dividing line between how “highly trained” work force folks are treated and “everyone else.”  And it was weird to see it presented so starkly without a “the other half” backdrop, too.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, that’s what my wife thought and I did not a mention of Harvard.  Still, it really jangled with my perception of the employment market.  I have three kids with degrees from state colleges, and while they have jobs, it essentially seems like and employers market.</p>
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		<title>By: demi</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098164</link>
		<dc:creator>demi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098164</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Even though Dennis is getting a prolonged and heartfelt (?) standing ovation, still…it’s gotta hurt.  I’m thinking.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though Dennis is getting a prolonged and heartfelt (?) standing ovation, still…it’s gotta hurt.  I’m thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Biodun</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098163</link>
		<dc:creator>Biodun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098163</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane’s upstairs with Mr. Rove…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane’s upstairs with Mr. Rove…</p>
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		<title>By: demi</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098161</link>
		<dc:creator>demi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098161</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;IIRC the Flynt ka-boom was supposed to be another senator &lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ah, right you are.  I sit corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
(this still sounds a little bit like Craig’s speech…)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>IIRC the Flynt ka-boom was supposed to be another senator </em><br />
Ah, right you are.  I sit corrected.<br />
(this still sounds a little bit like Craig’s speech…)</p>
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		<title>By: wigwam</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098158</link>
		<dc:creator>wigwam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098158</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098142&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;hackworth @ 33&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098115&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;wigwam @ 14&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;OT: There’s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/11/15/134046/06&quot;&gt;rumor &lt;/a&gt; that Newsweek plans to hiring both Rove and Kos as commentators on the 2008 “horserace.”  Hmmmmm.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;David Broder is Karl Rove’s  personal friend. They have dined on quail together. Yet, Broder is considered a &lt;b&gt;centrist.&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Rove had written that Clinton hit piece himself, one couldn’t detect any difference.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That makes several things make more sense.  Thanks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1098142"><em>hackworth @ 33</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1098115"><em>wigwam @ 14</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>OT: There’s a <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/11/15/134046/06">rumor </a> that Newsweek plans to hiring both Rove and Kos as commentators on the 2008 “horserace.”  Hmmmmm.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>David Broder is Karl Rove’s  personal friend. They have dined on quail together. Yet, Broder is considered a <b>centrist.</b> </p>
<p>If Rove had written that Clinton hit piece himself, one couldn’t detect any difference.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That makes several things make more sense.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Hardin Smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098153</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Hardin Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098153</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;pma at 25 — I did see it and, in all honesty, I thought it was a pretty accurate depiction of what a lot of law firms are going through with younger lawyers these days — just based on complaints that I have heard and things I have seen first hand, both from defense and plaintiffs’ firms..  It’s a weird dividing line between how “highly trained” work force folks are treated and “everyone else.”  And it was weird to see it presented so starkly without a “the other half” backdrop, too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pma at 25 — I did see it and, in all honesty, I thought it was a pretty accurate depiction of what a lot of law firms are going through with younger lawyers these days — just based on complaints that I have heard and things I have seen first hand, both from defense and plaintiffs’ firms..  It’s a weird dividing line between how “highly trained” work force folks are treated and “everyone else.”  And it was weird to see it presented so starkly without a “the other half” backdrop, too.</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098151</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/15/lies-damned-lies-and-bush-lies/#comment-1098151</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1098139&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;demi @ 31&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;You guys probably already discussed this, but, is This (Hastert on CSPAN 1 at my house) the Flynt kaboomb….in other words?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IIRC the Flynt ka-boom was supposed to be another senator&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1098139"><em>demi @ 31</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>You guys probably already discussed this, but, is This (Hastert on CSPAN 1 at my house) the Flynt kaboomb….in other words?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>IIRC the Flynt ka-boom was supposed to be another senator</p>
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