Siun @ 37

I’ve always worked within nonviolent movements – and in fact used to be a nonviolence trainer – but I also know that some situation call for other means.

That said, I would never diss a movement such as the Burmese people’s nonviolent struggle. They are there and know what they are doing … it’s arrogance to act as if they cannot and should not chose the means.

And God Speed, for them… Civil Disobedience is a powerful tool, yet, when the Junta has no qualms in bashing the monks’ skulls against brick walls, one has to reconsider other means too… 8-(

Uhmmm! You don’t know about the history of how the regime dealt with the armed Karen and Shan peoples?? Well, that’s because they have gotten no sympathy or support because they were “violent” and “deserved what they got”. That’s pretty much the response from ASEAN states like Thailand and Malaysia.

The Karen and Shan were at least able to smuggle some weapons across the border…and they had a warlike tradition.

I doubt very much that the mainstream Democracy movement could ever obtain arms in large enough numbers to actually succeed against the well-armed and highly trained military. Unless a major branch of the Army split off, provided weapons and support to the “rebels” then they’d simply be hunted down like dogs.

http://www.spiegel.de/internat…..86,00.html

Phoenix Woman @ 48

There’s the case of the Civil War. The Southern plantationers (and their financial buddies in the UK, which supported the South even though most Britons were anti-slavery) weren’t going to stay in the Union and give up slavery unless coerced. (Of course, some folk have suggested that Lincoln should have let them go and be left behind in their feudal status while the North moved on without them. How the slaves would have felt about being left in slavery doesn’t get brought up.)

The South could quite possibly have gotten away with that, if they hadn’t attacked Ft. Sumter.

Some say that the economic system was inviable and that they would have moved to a share-cropper system (althougn with many slaves still in place in other roles). There’s also the possibility that there would be increasing “John Brown” raids by abolitionists. That would likely have led to counter-attacks, and then responses to that by the Union. Ultimately, I suspect, there would have been a war…perhaps even more bloody than the one that occurred…as both nations would have moved into the eras of Gatling Guns, multiple-shot and more accurate rifles, bigger artilley and fully ironclad battleships.

Music!!! The godamn Universal that we can ALL understand and respond to.

I love this shit, truly.

It’s why they want to take our Internets away, you know. To strip us of our communion, our community.

So glad you connected with the music … I loved it too … and your communion, community phrasing is beautiful!

Loo Hoo. @ 61

Maybe the other question is what would we do if a similar situation were to become reality here in the USA? Whenever I look at this situation in Burma, I wonder, who are our leaders? Is there someone in particular? Would we fight or stay in our homes and let the dust settle?

I have utmost respect for the monks, the photographers, and the Burmese people who are fighting. Would we have the strength to do the same?

several layers of leaders have already been taken or killed. depending on a few organizational leaders is, imo, a recipe for defeat.

Dunno, hope we would have this kind of courage. Some of us will, I have no doubt. The flame will not be shut down.

Slavery was a function of cotton. It wasn’t viable in most other crops- even other plantation crops. Slavery made sense with cotton all the way to the end.

True, and that’s why England abolished it with no blood shed, they already had serfs(Irish, Welsh, and Scots) to tend to the fields… ;-)

I love this shit, truly.

It’s why they want to take our Internets away, you know. To strip us of our communion, our community.

Selise

Yeah- it was just a matter of waiting 50 years until economic and moral forces forced slavery out of existance- but when historic moral forces get a hard on- it’s pretty hard to postpone the ceremony.

lol.
…..

but i wasn’t suggesting waiting – that’s not a nonviolent response. i was wondering if an active nonviolent campaign could be imagined.

GordonM @ 54

The South could quite possibly have gotten away with that, if they hadn’t attacked Ft. Sumter.

i wonder if we studied and thought hard about it, we couldn’t come up with a way of ending slavery without a war. that’s one i haven’t given any thought to (although i expect others have).

It’s a difficult question. England did it without a war – but much of the Carribean was no better off for it. Some of them still aren’t. OTOH, we went to war for it, but Delay & friends were promoting it in the Marianas.