Remember that famous YouTube parody of the Macintosh “1984″ ad earlier this year? A New York Times story a couple of weeks ago suggested that Barack Obama’s campaign really thought it would be that easy to shatter Hillary Clinton’s candidacy:
The interview came amid growing signs that Mr. Obama was looking for a fresh start for his campaign after nine months in which his aides said they were startled by the effectiveness of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign, and worried that her support was not as brittle as they had once believed.
Ooops. Now, with the Iowa caucuses less than two months away, Obama and John Edwards (as well as some of the other Democratic candidates) are visibly scrambling to hurl not only hammers but wrenches, screwdrivers, seat cushions, and anything else that isn’t nailed down at Hillary’s front-running telescreen — and some polls show that they may be making some headway. Clinton, meanwhile, is doing her best to steer the conversation back to her themes:
“I’m not interested in attacking my opponents, I’m interested in tackling the problems of America,” she said last weekend at a Democratic dinner in Iowa. “We should be turning up the heat on the Republicans — they deserve all the heat we can give them.”
That notion of “tackling the problems of America” was what I described a couple of weeks ago as the key job requirement in the minds of the millions of hiring managers who will vote for the next President — and as the reason why Clinton’s apparent lead has proved so durable. As a New York Times poll notes today:
Voters have clearly rallied around one central part of Mr. Obama’s message: 37 percent of respondents in Iowa described him as the candidate most likely to bring change to Washington. But Mrs. Clinton’s effort to present herself as having the experience to be president has clearly taken hold: 80 percent of Iowa voters described her as prepared to be president, compared with 68 percent who said that of Mr. Edwards and just 42 percent who said that of Mr. Obama.
Overcoming that sense of greater preparedness has led Obama and Edwards to adopt a two-pronged strategy: (1) depict Hillary’s perceived experience as something that makes her a captive of the existing problems, rather than someone who knows how to resolve them; and (2) portray themselves more vividly as action-focused leaders rather than pret– attractive, eloquent speakers.
Thus we have Edwards adopting attention-getting proposals like challenging Congress to give up its own health insurance until it passes legislation to provide it for all Americans. And we also see Barack Obama giving a rousing, impassioned speech in Iowa that reshapes his high-minded calls for bipartisanship into a plea that “we have a chance to bring the country together to tackle problems that George Bush made far worse and that festered long before George Bush took office.”
Of course, if you ask me, the best opportunity for Edwards, Obama, or any other Democratic candidate to demonstrate their ability to make change happen would be to take the lead in sharpening the Iraq debate, especially now that the congressional Dems seem willing to dive into the fray again. For anyone who wants to tout their leadership skills, isn’t this a good time to step forward?
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Swopa!
hard cold look at….??????????????
I always thought it was a hard cold look but I quibble. this does end abruptly tho….
Swopa!
So can we bring down Hillary and support the striking writers at the same time?
Maybe the focus should be on bringing “someone” else down….
“No one’s going to overtake her without taking a hard, cold look at what”
Is part of the post missing?
Hi Swopa!
Unfinished sentence at the end of the post
Can we concentrate on bringing down the Bushist fascists?
Speaking of that clip, even CNN said that it was copied directly from my blog!
http://www.dailymotion.com/vid…..b_politics
Wished I’d gotten as many hits…Lamont would probably be our senator right now if I did!
I am not a Hillary fan. I’m afraid she will just continue the redefinition of right wing economic and global political values as the middle that started in 92. If another candidate can take her down, good, we’ll have a better candidate. If not, well good, we’ll have a more seasoned candidate to go on and take down the even worse reThug who will oppose her.
Speaking for myself only of course, I simply don’t trust Hillary Clinton any more than I do Rahm, Pelosi, Reid, Harold Ford Jr., Joe Lieberman or certainly the DLC Leadership Team. To name but a few. If one wants HRC for president then it must mean three things: You like her voting record, her support of “The Third Way” philosophy, and her foreign policy views.
I’d have more sympathy for Obama if he hadn’t gone running around South Carolina with an ex-gay-now-anti-gay gospel singer.
As for Clinton’s support, I continue to believe that it was–and is–extremely brittle. The reason she remains the front runner is that her competitors have done so little to distinguish themselves (in a positive sense, anyway). Most of them currently hold positions of power that they aren’t doing anything with. Only Kucinich (impeachment charges against Dick Cheney) and Dodd (putting a hold on telecom immunity) have done anything lately that could be considered “leadership”. So my advice to the rest of the field is this: If you really want to do something to distinguish yourself from Hillary, just DO SOMETHING.
BTW, Wilkes was found guilty on all counts.
Here’s my theory, FWIW: Clinton took a long hard look at the 2000 and 2004 campaigns and decided that if she wanted to beat the Republicans, she would have to start early. She lined up her support early. She got an early lead on fundraising. For all I know, she persuaded NY and NJ to move up their primary dates. She worked on her message delivery, delivery devices, got the best PR team she could afford AND she has the best, FREE political advisor in the world. This advisor has been physically close to the Bush’s and has studied them. He’s figured out what makes Rove tick and how Republicans operate. They took advantage of the Republican mantra that Hillary was inevitable. Hey, if your opponents want to hand you a gift like that, why not seize on it? It got her extra publicity and every time she had a chance to put her best foot forward, the voters found they liked her. And one final thing: Hillary has been investigated to death. If there was any *there* there, the GOP would be broadcasting it by now. I expect that the Clinton’s have stored up lots of surprised to take the punch out of whatever the GOP throws at them.
So, they have done their homework, they overprepared and they have a savvy and responsive campaign organiszation.
The other candidates have had an opportunity to take them on. Some got a late start and tried to start a movement (Obama). But movements do not run the Oval Office, people do. And apparently voters are not completely sure that Obama’s self-confidence matches his conviction.
Edwards had *four frickin’ years* to put together a winning team but apparently, he thought his prodigious gifts as a speaker and Hillary’s “negatives” would be enough to displace her.
Then you have the unknown unknowns. No one knew for sure that Obama would even get into the race until February. But his entry took much more support away from Edwards than Clinton. Hillary’s campaign adjusted and got on with it. Edwards appears to have made the wrong assumptions about the electability of a white feamale and an african-american. He has not been able to recover. He didn’t build in any contigency for error.
We’ve seen all of this happen before our eyes but we don’t want to trust what our eyes are seeing. We would much rather curse Hillary for running a gold medal campaign than to place some of the blame for her blowout on the other candidates. They have had plenty of opportunity to catch her but they keep failing.
There’s still time. Obama could find his killer instinct. Edwards could do the work necessary to get the kind of coverage he needs. A circumstance could arise that would make Hillary look like an amateur. But seeing how her campaign has run so far, I think she would just adjust and keep moving forward.
Which brings me to the last puzzling thing that I can’t understand about the Hillary detractors: when we go up agains tthe Republican machine next year, don’t we *want* there to be a campaign this disciplined, resilient and strong? Why is this considered a bad thing for a candidate?
Frank Probst @ 13
Sweeeeeeet.
(*Uhh, we now restart the comments here… the above comments were made when a WordPress glitch and the end of daylight savings time caused the post to appear when it was still a draft.*)
re-zed?
I wondered where that went!!
Yes Swopa, all three front runners lining up for extended Iraqi occupation and leaving all options on the table with Iran is a bit of a problem.
Not only is it dreadfully wrong it’s the main issue that keeps the elephant in the room at all..
No war (as an issue), and the GOP has nothing but bigotry and trumped up lies.
LS @ 18
Jane realized what had happened and yanked the draft back into limbo.
I was buried in work and hadn’t even visited FDL in a couple of days, so I had no idea.
One must admit that HC is the most prepared of all the candidates. She has been preparing for many years. I dislike her policies, despise all the “triangulating” – If it were a perfect world, Kucinich would be Prez. My second choice, I guess, is Edwards. But, if Hillary it is, hers in the bandwagon I’ll get on. The Rethug candidates are just flat either embarrassing, deeply scary, or both, eh?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
Actually, I think it means two things, that you like her because she’s a woman and a liberal, one of which is true.
Whoa. Deja vu!
Is there truth to what I have heard that HC will choose Rahm Emanuel as her Veep?
This seems horrible.
Sarah Deere, Not Complacent @ 24
She’s the only one who could answer that, and I rather doubt she’s picked a running mate at this point.
EvilDrPuma @ 25
At least there is a silver-lining, it would get him outta the US House… ;-)
Frank Probst @ 23
I was thinking more like Banquo’s ghost.
You seem to have forgotten that Edwards has consistently been first to put forth his policies. From health care, to education, to the environment.
This piece seems to imply that coming up front with programs and policies is a “new” and recent response to the strengh of Clinton’s campaign.
You’ve got it backwards. Clinton and Obama paused again and again to make their stances clear. It is Edwards who has led nearly every time.
Check the dates of his announcements. Then look at the other two candidates.
Neocons want Hillary, who will go to war with Iran.
Not wanting war with Iran, I’ll vote for anyone else.
The Hammer
Dems should stop attacking Dems. Don’t give the Repubs cannon fodder…oh, yeah…they already have cannon fodder…the troops…
I guess what bothers me most about the Dem candidates right now is how many of them seem to be taking the short-term “easy” road of simply tearing down HRC. IMO that doesn’t make any of them any bigger and doesn’t give information junkies like me much to base decisions on. It doesn’t make their policy proposals or voting records (or lack thereof) any stronger or more convincing.
And I’m very uncomfortable with HRC as the front-runner. I would just like all the dem candidates to start differentiating themselves based on thier OWN merits, records and policies. Mud sticks, true, but it also sticks to the mudslinger, and I’m not very excited about voting for the least muddy candidate yet _again_.
FunnyD
what I said before the time shifting.
I had hoped that Hillary wouldn’t run and when she did that Gore would enter the race and suck the oxygen out. Neither happened..”if wishes were horses; begars would ride”.
In Jan ‘09 an optomistic picture is an economy in or nearing recession, wars in Iraq, Afghanistan (Iran?) all going badly with the probability of a fighting withdrawal 200k people from Iraq. The Republicans will be trying to make the transition as difficult as possible, the residual Congressional Republicans will be obstructing, the tens of thousands of true believers will be screwing things up; all to make the Dems look as bad as possible.
Of all of the candidates; who is best qualified to manage this mess on 01/20/09?
1) Hillary 2) Edwards 3)Biden?….I suspect that Hillary has a virtual shadow Government in place. The Republicans are going to make it as hard as possible and are going to try to cover up the crimes..it is going to be a very bas situation.
Sarah Deere, Not Complacent @ 24
That may be wishful thinking on the part of either fans of Rahm or those who dislike both HRC and Rahm.
I would doubt it though as I have heard that HRC tried to get Big Dog to fire Rahm when he was working on white House staff so that alone makes it suspect that she would select him as VP.
Whoa! was the Macintosh “1984″ parody let loose just this year? Seems like ages ago!!! Thanks for the reminder. . .
Speaking of showing leadership, how about this FISA thing? Has anyone noticed the nice proposal set forth by Slate?
State Your Secrets:
The smart way around telecom immunity.
By Justin Florence and Matthew Gerke
Posted Wednesday, Nov. 14, 2007, at 11:32 AM ET
Looks good to me.
Bob in HI
OT – Yeah Tweety really does like to follow the political news. Why it is so important that he’s covering the “Breaking News” that OJ may be charged and have to stand trial for robbery.
Shiny Object! Shiny Object!
I think a lot of people write Edwards off because of the god awful campaign Kerry ran in ‘04. He was part of a losing ticket against a dumb fuck. I know Ohio was stolen, however at the end of the day he was still part of a loss. That is very hard to overcome.
Obama is not battle tested. He ran against Allan Keyes who was drafted 86 days before the election. I doubt he can withstand the attacks of the mighty Wurlitizer. And really if Hillary decided she needed to take him down, her political prowess and her experience on the national level would do him in a heart beat.
I have never been “easy” with Hillary’s run for pres, even though I have happily voted for her as NY Senator twice. Yesterday, as I was walking through my brooklyn nabe, I was asked to sign an Obama petition. It felt like a moment of truth–even though I would sign any Dem petition to run (I figure anyone should have the right) and I realized that I really wanted him to beat her. As a woman, I have dreamed of the day that a woman could sit in the Oval Office, but I never wanted that woman to be their as a member of a political/family dynasty. And it hurts that a woman as smart and capable as Hilary has gotten where she is (and would like to be) largely by virtue of family “connections.”
OJ- bound over on all twelve charges…
CTuttle @ 39
The convicted Libby of lying rather than treason but of course OJ won’t be getting a pardon if he’s convicted.
Bill never would have gotten where he did without Hillary. She provided the structure and hard nosed attitude that her husband lacked. Hillary was on a “political fast track” coming out of Yale…that side tracked for ten years in the “political waste land” of Arkansas.
Connecticut Bob @ 9
You’re famous! How does it feel? Do you have to hire security?
By the way, I think Hillary looks beautiful in the 1984 YouTube! You think they’d have chosen a less flattering picture.
Woodhall Hollow @ 37
I feel like that pretty much too. I also have a conflict about something that I personally witnessed during Clinton’s term, that struck me as unethical at the time…but, I now think I better understand why it was handled the way it was, considering the people that they were fighting, who now run the WH. Because of that, I give her some leeway in how she presents herself to some degree..you sort of have to try to read between the lines with the Clintons, and I find that really difficult to accept. I would vote for her over any Repub, any day, but she is not my first choice.
Sarah Deere, Not Complacent @ 24
If I had to guess, I would guess she picks somebody from a swing state. The NC or VA governors, maybe.
I support Edwards, but I do not understand this “dynasty” stuff. How can 2 people, even though husband and wife, be a dynasty? We’re not talking about handing the throne over as they do in England – and they’re all related to Henry VIII.
Twain @ 44
Heh, which wife, tho…? ;-)
if a candidate REALLY wants to “take the lead” and actually LOOK like a “leader” all they have to do is the following;
do what Americans demanded in overwhelming numbers…
BRING THE CRIMINALS IN OUR GOVERNMENT TO THE BAR OF JUSTICE!!!
LET NO MAN STAND ABOVE THE LAW OF THIS LAND
LET NO MAN WRITE NEW LAW AS IF THEY SPIT IN THE FACE OF OUR CONSTITUTION
LET NO MAN TAKE AS THEIR PERSONAL TOY THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
LET NO MAN DECIEVE THIS NATION INTO WAR, KILLING THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF OUR FINEST YOUTH FOR PERSONAL PROFIT
the MAJORITY of Americans want these criminals impeached, our constitution DEMANDS it and your oath of office set your name to a sacred pledge…you MUST stand by the constitution and RESTORE a the government for the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, not for corporations and CERTAINLY not by corporations.
that’s the ticket, start talking like you will hold the administration up to the law when they leave office ESPECIALLY if they escape the law while they are in office
TAKE THE LEAD protecting our constitution and THE NATION WILL STAND BY YOU IN EVERLASTING GRATITUDE
you want me to show you “one of the greatest presidents that ever lived”?
that person will be the president that brings to the bar of justice the criminals that have abused our constitution, have laughed at the rule of law, have subjugated our armed forces and have laid the integrity of our nation to waste
THAT person will be “the greatest president that ever lived” and will earn for themselves a seat of honor besides Lincoln and Washington and the debate will live for generations as to which president did more for our nation
CTuttle @ 45
He didn’t just call in an intern, he had them beheaded ! I think we have it better than that :)
Millineryman @ 36
The more I learn about Obama, the more I dislike him. This morning I heard on KPFA that Obama joined a christian church not for faith but as a vehicle for political activism, only to spurn the progressive minister of that church as his political ambitions grew. Obama then deliberately chose to ally himself with more socially conservative black ministers because more of their subjects vote.
Ick.
perris @ 46
Ding, ding, ding!! You nailed it.
Steve-AR @ 40
And ain’t that the oldest story in the world. The same could easily be said of Nancy and Ronald Reagan…and for that matter, Eleanor and Theodor Roosevelt. Eleanor is excused by the times. Nancy by her vacuous ambition. Hilary–as a Wellesly feminist, not so much.
perris – President Kucinch would do that given half a chance.
President Edwards might not fight it if we managed to get a Speaker like Kucinch.
I have been trying to dig around in “primary source” data on the “top three” so, in all honesty, there is little difference voting records or policy. The exception is Obama “willing to work with the Thugs”.
Rep Jim McGovern points out the “i was always against the War’ talk by Obama isn’t quite so.
link
Hillary is greatly helped by the fact that her two chief rivals are both one-term senators. Neither of them can credibly attack her for being inexperienced. Nor, as fellow junior senators, can they more credibly play the outsider. She is very lucky that there is not a Bill-like young, charismatic governor running. She should send Mark Warner flowers every day, for dropping out. This election is tailor-made for a Carter/Reagan/Clinton “outsider governor coming to clean up Washington” kind of campaign. But nobody’s doing that. On the Democrat’s side, anyhow.
yellowsnapdragon @ 48
Don’t know anything about this, but I am pretty skeptical about stories like this. There’s no way for us to verify them, but they seem to appear at critical points in a campaign, and we don’t know the source. Why now? Did it arise from an opponent’s campaign, or from Repubs or aligned dirty trickters, trying to drive up negatives just in case? This is a good time to be skeptical of personal charges that presume to know someone’s motivations. JMO.
There’s a really good piece on Edwards at the New Republic. They also have an interview with Edwards posted.
The New Republic
Edwards’s Scissor Hands
by Noam Scheiber
A candidate’s amazing knife skills.
Check it out
(If you don’t count Richardson).
OT
I have to jet home and cleanup, I get to go see our favorite spy tonight at her speaking engagement in Portland.
swopa, as you point out, the best way to prove leadership now would be, you know, to lead.
i am staggered that the senators running, for example, have not pressed hard and relentlessly on a number of issues that reminds the public just how degraded the bush/republicans have left this country’s economy, its civil rights, its foreign policy, environment, its you name it.
dodd took a baby step with running on restoring the constitution — how on earth can you not build from that? kucinich introduced a bill to impeach cheney — why on earth do they not all sign on to it?
i guess it’s because anything that gets sponsored by a candidate will be shrugged off as “mere politics.” but this means that the primary season has officially entered frag time, when all you as a candidate do is try to stick it to the others running against you.
meanwhile, the nation hungers for positive action, to end the nightmare.
Laura Doty @ 57
I don’t count Richardson. He should be doing much better than he is. He looks good on paper but he lacks oomph.
Steve-AR @ 53
jim is my rep – and i can tell you his early endorsement of clinton pissed off a few anti-war people here. but we’re just dfh, so i guess we don’t count.
that said, obama’s triagulation against the anti-war dems bothers me a lot more. from paul rosenberg, about a year ago:
cleter @ 60
I count Richardson as part of Hilliary’s campaign.
dmg @ 59
Once senators start running for president, they essentially quit being senators.
Laura Doty @ 56
Even two term governors have a bit of odor to them these days since governors don’t do much foreign policy work. Richardson does have foreign policy creds but has really disappointed in the way he has run his campaign and the idiocy of some of his “debate” responses.
Bustednuckles @ 58
please report back Busted!
cleter @ 53
The last thing we need, with this Country headed for the cliff, is an “outsider” who doesn’t know his ass from his elbow. Spending a year or two trying to learn on the job isn’t going to work in ‘09.
Can’t resist as I have a repugnant shiny object:
Rudy Giuliani has a connect-the-dots link to Hugo Chavez. The latter is claimed to subsidize 2 million U.S. families in 17 states on heating oil …
Gotta go chase some corroboration on this lead.
cleter @ 60
he’s hardly in the position to run an outside washington campaign.
i’m not agreeing that such a campaign is what’s needed. i’m just sayinh richardson could not run one.
Shucks. As a democrat I expect my candidate to be a man of the people. Edwards.
I will tell you what I see and hear tomorrow morning.
Jim’s anti-war record is well established. His bottom line is, who is best qualified to get us out of Iraq..Of all of the candidates on both sides, I think he has made the correct assessment.
cleter @ 62
Exactly, look at Edwards’ Senate record.
Quite a tiff brewing within the Netroots…
A Tale of Two Strategies
by: Armando
Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:17:30 PST
What should the “Netroots” do with rerard to pressuring candidates and the Democratic Party? Booman endorses a “We Hate Hillary” strategy:
Why We Don’t Have Her Back
by BooMan
Tue Nov 13th, 2007 at 12:36:49 PM EST
For a Democratic presidential campaign to go into the general election without the Netroots is to fight with one hand behind your back. Yet, that is what the Clinton campaign intends to do. Their contempt for the progressive blogosphere is manifest and comes in comments from people as diverse as Al From and Paul Begala.
. . . You think the Netroots is going to go to war for you when you do this shit? After you basically called us all ‘assholes from Vermont’? No way.
But, if we bring up what a dishonest, loathsome campaign the Clintons are running, all of a sudden we are Hillary haters. That’s backwards. Hillary hates us. And she treats us with the same contempt that she treats those audiences to in Iowa. . . .
Um, ok. Nice to see how Booman’s “Netroots” has been getting all that love and respect from the other campaigns. As usual, it is all personality and “personal respect” for some of them. Me I want ISSUE respect. Respect my issues…
Unlike Booman, I do not care if he and his buddies get “respect.” I care about the issues I care about. Booman’s is the path to irrelevance, unless you want to be a “player.” Then it is a path to ridicule.
http://www.docudharma.com/show…..aryId=2260
Here’s Booman’s reponse:
Team Clinton
by BooMan
Wed Nov 14th, 2007 at 05:12:04 PM EST
At some point, I’m not sure when, Armando became as fierce a defender of Hillary Clinton as he used to be of Markos Moulitsas (before he was banned from Daily Kos). I can’t predict whether he will feel equally betrayed by the Clinton campaign someday, but I’d take that bet.
I honestly have no idea why Armando gives a crap about how I feel about the candidacy of Hillary Clinton and I have even less idea why he would want to have anything to do with them (other than direct financial renumeration).
I can’t understand how anyone could have spent the last 3-4 years blogging, and not have internalized the deep contempt that Team Clinton has for the Netroots. And when I say ‘Netroots’ I don’t just mean a narrow grouping of well known and somewhat influential bloggers and blogging communities. I mean Dean Democracy for America and all their spinoffs, like Philly for Change. I mean MoveOn.org. I mean Howard Dean as chairman of the DNC. I mean the candidacies of Ned Lamont, Paul Hackett, Chuck Pennacchio, Christine Cegelis, Jerry McNerney, Jon Tester, Donna Edwards, Mark Pera, and Marcy Winograd. Team Clinton has had a lock on the DCCC and DSCC, through the chairmen Rahm Emanuel and Chuck Schumer. Their idea of a great candidate is Harold Ford, Jr. or Tammy Duckworth. That’s the kind of DLC-driven politician Team Clinton wants in government. And when they are challenged, Team Clinton attacks the left, attacks the activists, attacks the blogosphere, and tries to create division.
http://www.boomantribune.com/
I’m not neccisarily advocating some kind of outsider campaign–I’m just pointing out that historically, it’s very effective. In presidential elections, the governor usually beats the non-governor. Incumbent presidents have only been beaten by governors for about a century or so. That’s why Hillary should be lucky that Richardson is so lousy. And she should be a little worried about the GOP governors, come the general election.
Steve-AR @ 70
I know we differ on this but how do you get to where you are when the candidate has clearly stated she expects troops to remain in Iraq through a first term?
There is a new post upstairs but it says the comments are turned off.
Woodhall Hollow @ 38
I don’t think there would be any family connections without Hillary. Bill would never have become president had Hillary not shocked the country with her support for her husband on 60 minutes after the revelation of his affair. She worked as hard and as smart as Bill. It’s not like she is a leech, like W. She’s worked her tail off since she was a kid.
FYI, new post upstairs
But if the comments are turned off we can’t comment! It’s the end times! Flee!
Bustednuckles @ 76
First time I’ve ever seen that, except for a PA for a book salon or something…
Scarecrow @ 55
Don’t remember the persons making the claim, but they were quite critical of both Hillary AND Obama, so I’m certain that it didn’t come from Hillary’s campaign. I doubt if KPFA would feature anyone on the right wo/a disclaimer. I wish I could find a link to a description of the program and guests, but it did seem legitimate, indeed.
cleter @ 79
It’s all over now Baby Blue
Scarecrow @ 55
that reminds me… i had a sources question to ask you.
last week you wrote (about the mukasey nomination vote):
and later you said that you’d heard only from the dodd folks.
unless the communication was confidential… could you tell us who was your source (and was it from the campaign or the senate office)?, did your source contact you or did you initiate the contact? was it by email or phone? was it personal to you or done via a group (email list or conferance call).
and did you get any more info? were they not asking reid for info, or were they just waiting to hear? did they not know about reid’s statement on the schedule the morning of the vote?
thanks.
Loo Hoo. @ 42
It’s funny how the original post and my comment vanished over a week ago, and then suddenly reappeared, just like the lost airmen in that final scene from “Close Encounters”! Cool.
Fortunately, I still don’t need security. But that might change, depending on how extreme Republican Rep. Chris Shays (CT-4) starts acting in his personal “war against the bloggers”. Just today, two of my friends were singled out and accused of being “bloggers” by Shays’ henchmen at a public Q&A with the Congressman. Funny thing is, they’re NOT bloggers. Just politically active citizens.
You know, the kind of people that makes “Shaysie” crazy.
Bustednuckles @ 76
Comments are now welcome upstairs.
Elliott @ 65
Have a good time. I saw her in Santa Barbara a couple of weeks ago — very articulate for a self-described novice!
Comments are now open upstairs.
I have heard that HRC tried to get Big Dog to fire Rahm when he was working on white House staff so that alone makes it suspect that she would select him as VP.
dakine01 – that’s a load off my mind! Thanks.
LS @ 50
But it can’t be done until AFTER Bush is in a position to pardon these criminals.
Steve-AR @ 71
that is not the local analysis i heard.
Uh-oh, the Iowa Horse Race numbers aren’t favorable to HRC…
In Iowa, the Democratic contest is knotted up. Among likely caucus-goers, Clinton came out on top with 25 percent support, but she was trailed closely by Edwards at 23 percent, and Obama at 22 percent. With a margin of error of 4 percentage points, there is no clear leader. Trailing behind was Bill Richardson, at 12 percent, with all other candidates in single digits.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..7993.shtml
oh she is brittle.
being open to snapping the
necks of theiranian people like peanut brittle is very brittle.no wait. not ‘like peanut brittle.’
like the iraq war she voted for.
CTuttle @ 91
how is the progressive candidate doing? the one kos put so much energy into ridiculing?
mayB @ 28
I wasn’t talking about policy proposals per se, since those are the usual stock in trade of candidates (and yes, Edwards has been ripped off).
The importance of the health-insurance gambit is that it shows Edwards is willing to take unorthodox routes for the sake of getting something done — i.e., that he can create action and results where others will just talk.
Bustednuckles @ 15
what about the doctor whose barn he was found hiding in?
oh wait. not that Wilkes.
PLovering @ 29
How ridiculous- General Wes Clark who has been one of the most vocal opponents of military conflict with Iran and has been sounding the trumpet on a Bush run up for months- strongly supports Hillary Clinton and her vote for the Iran amendment– Dick Durbin-a major best friend and supporter of Obama and anti-war Senator who voted against the original Iraq amendment voted with Hillary. Obama didn’t bother to show up to vote at all-
All I can say is huh???
from the johnewards.com website:
John Edwards’ Plan To End The War In IraqPODCAST: John Edwards at Riverside Church
John Edwards speaks during the Martin Luther King Day Commemoration at Riverside Church in New York.
“We don’t need debate; we don’t need non-binding resolutions; we need to end this war. In order to get the Iraqi people to take responsibility for their country, we must show them that we are serious about leaving, and the best way to do that is to actually start leaving.” — John Edwards
There is no military solution to the chaos in Iraq. Instead, the Iraqi people must solve the problem politically by taking responsibility for their country. By leaving Iraq, America will prompt the Iraqi people, regional powers, and the entire international community to find the political solution that will end the sectarian violence and create a stable Iraq. We must show the Iraqis that we are serious about leaving by actually starting to leave, with an immediate withdrawal of 40,000-50,000 troops and a complete withdrawal within nine to ten months. We should leave behind in Iraq only a brigade of 3,500 to 5,000 troops to protect the embassy and possibly a few hundred troops to guard humanitarian workers.
We can only achieve these steps through legislative action. Edwards strongly supports the supplemental spending bill passed by both Houses of Congress and vetoed by President Bush that funds the troops with a timetable for withdrawal. He has called for Congress to respond to the President’s veto by sending back the same bill—and doing this as many times as it takes for the President to end the war. Edwards supports the following specific steps:
Stop the Escalation and Immediately Start the Drawdown
Edwards opposed President Bush’s “surge” and supports immediately drawing down 40,000 to 50,000 combat troops.
Require Troops to be Ready
We should prohibit funding for any new troops that do not meet real readiness standards and that have not been properly trained and equipped. American tax dollars should be used to train and equip our troops, not to escalate the war.
Clarify the Lack of Legal Foundation for the War
The 2002 authorization did not give President Bush the power to use U.S. troops to police a civil war. Edwards believes that Congress should make it clear that President Bush exceeded his authority long ago. The president now needs to end the war and ask Congress for new authority to manage the withdrawal of the U.S. military presence and to help Iraq achieve stability.
Withdraw Combat Troops within Nine to Ten Months
Edwards believes we should completely withdraw all combat troops from Iraq within nine to ten months and prohibit permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. After withdrawal, we should retain sufficient forces in Quick Reaction Forces located outside Iraq, in friendly countries like Kuwait, to prevent an Al Qaeda safe haven, a genocide, or regional spillover of a civil war.
Take Additional Steps to Stabilize Iraq
Edwards believes we should intensify U.S. efforts to train the Iraqi security forces. He would also step up U.S. diplomatic efforts by engaging in direct talks with all the nations in the region, including Iran and Syria, to bring a political solution to the sectarian violence inside Iraq, including through a peace conference.
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Geezus Cripes, how stupid do you have to be to underestimate Hillary Clinton’s campaign? Disagree on policy, hold her to her record, sure, but what about Hillary Clinton suggests that her campaign is going to be anything but the meanest dog in the junkyard?
portia.vz @ 14
Good campaign speech.
Of course, you leave off that Hillary doesn’t really stand for anything, is a Goldwater Girl, copies Edwards so he can’t distinguish himself from her, is anti-union, is pro-WalMart, is possibly pro-Iran-war and makes an error every time she opens her mouth by being condescending to everyone.
Edwards is doing great considering he gets no press mention except to slander him, Hillary has who knows how much illegal money, Edwards hasn’t been running t.v. ads until recently and Obama splits off Liberal-Progressive Dems from Edwards.
Yeah, Hillary’s wonderful except for being a Republican-Lite.
Let’s see how things go as Edwards runs some more ads.
Funnydiva2002 @ 31
I suppose you just haven’t been paying attention. All the candidates have been laying out plans, ideas, specifics and whatnot for many months.
Go to Edwards website JohnEdwards.com and read!
Steve-AR @ 41
I suppose some people would consider America a ‘political waste land’. Most of us call it home.
Maybe it’s indicative of the Clintons or perhaps just Hillary that she felt she had to spend time in Arkansas Hell before she could be freed to join ‘her people’ in the Village known as D.C.
Sounds like the same kind of arrogance Kerry spewed. Somehow I guess an HRC administration would be as stifling, dull and ineffective as was the Kerry campaign. Sure, Kerry should’ve been the winner, but after Bush you’d think that’s a given. Is that all we have to look forward to with HRC, that it’s at least better than Dubya? That isn’t a very high bar.
Let’s aim higher!
“…to take the lead in sharpening the Iraq debate…”
Swopa, that one sentence qualifies you as campaign manager for either Edwards or Obama.
It’s starting to happen…sorta/kinda, I think.
I also think, for the primaries, the reason it hasn’t been the Apatosaur-in-the- room that it’s almost certain to be in the election, is that all three of the candidates know that there is not going to be a happy ending.
Iran is highly likely to come out the clustre d’phuque much empowered; that’s why bush is so frantically trying to find the “political capital” to start a mid-east war.
(Only, the “capital” cupboard is pretty much bare, at this point.)
Edwards and Obama, and Clinton, can all put forth their “plans” for getting X number of troops in by such-and-such a period of time, but they don’t want to talk about what is practically certain to follow.
That would be:
Shiite control of 80% of Iraq’s reserves.
Probable Kurdish control of the other 20%, with all that that implies for the Kurds’ push for an independent state.
The bald-ass truth that if ANYONE pulls substantial numbers of troops out of Iraq, there will be very few people with guns and RPG’s who want to take over the job of propping up the Maliki government.
The bald-ass truth that without enough VERY quick-response troops to control Baghdad, the Green Zone is going to become the world’s largest and most expensive mortar-training range.
Absent substantial numbers of americans to force them to do it, I don’t think Iraqi “government forces” will be very enthusiastic in chasing down the targeteers.
I’m not saying that the place will descend utterly into a bloody sectarian war, although that is entirely possible; what I’m saying is that even if the factions work out some of the huge compromises necessary to avoid that war, anyone who thinks the result is going to leave what used to be Iraq user-friendly to Wall St. and the Fortune 500, needs a new tinfoil chapeau.
It’s like this; bush isn’t the only one riding the tiger. The three top dem candidates are strapped to the back of the large, striped, carnivore, too.
Not only that, but since they are up there, and since, at least at this point, they don’t seem much interested in reminding the voters of who let Rajah out of the cage, it means that bush MAY be able to dismount in the confusion of the election and haul-ass back to Crawford; while leaving Hil, Edwards, and Obama to deal with the denoument of his bloody and worse-than-useless.
Clinton has already said:
“We don’t know what we’re going to inherit…”
Which would seem to imply that she buys into the bushCo themes that Iraq is improving by leaps and bounds.
I would feel better about her, and Edwards and Obama, too, if they would just ‘fess up and admit that they are likely to “inherit” the same miserable fuckup that bush created, and for which he has, so far, largely escaped the blame.
Doing that would be a start.
The high irony of hearing Clinton supporters pissing and moaning because Edwards and Obama only coming after her instead of bush (as if that were true…) boggles the mind.
Show us how much SHE has had to say about bush creating the miserable cock-up in Iraq.
In one respect she is indisputably like bush and his minions: she would just prefer that Iraq go away, and that people would stop asking her questions about it.
And that brings us squarely to the question of:
How can the democrats capitalize on the one issue on which bush and the GOP are vulnerable, Iraq, that is head and shoulders above the others, if we nominate a candidate whom has never stated flatly that it was a mistake to invade?
It’s the old story:
If you’re not outraged; you’re not paying attention, and from Hillary Clinton, I see precious little outrage.
Eureka Springs @ 19
Bingo! The only difference between the top three candidates regarding Iraq ASFAIK is that one wants to keep two brigades in the country (Clinton), another wants one Brigade in the country and several others across an imaginary line in the desert…but alowing them to operate in Iraq (Edwards), and the third wants all the troops to be withdrawn just across that imaginary line.
And don’t even let me get on their positions regarding the Palestine-Israeli conflict.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/p…..&art=1
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6619.shtml
HRC may be a strong campaigner, but she is not the answer and she is not going to be of any assistance whatever to most other Democrats running for election or re-election. And as for dynasty, I think the representation is accurate. The nearly 20 years of the same people in government, in the press, in each other’s faces—I’m sorry, that isn’t what America needs. I think saying Hillary wasn’t president before (so that doesn’t count) is hogwash. Bill Clinton ran originally claiming “two for the price of one” and nobody ever doubted it. Nobody doubted HRC led the failed battle for better health care into the toilet either, Bill’s mea culpa notwithstanding. And now to argue that she is presidential material based on two terms in the Senate makes her a junior to Dodd and Biden—you’re trying to have it both ways on the experience issue and it does not wash.
I will stick with Edwards. The man knows how to fight and he knows what he is fighting for—and so do we. With Hillary, you just never know.
dakine01 @ 34
No one selects a VEEP from a state where one has political strength. One always goes for balance, geographically and policy-wise. One wants to attract those voters who see the VEEP selection as an indicator of interest and recognition by the andidate that they’ll listen to that groups concerns. Thus Kennedy selected LBJ, Reagan took on Bush, Californian Nixon took Maryland’s Agnew…taking someone from ones natal State with similar ideology ain’t gonna happen.
Loo Hoo. @ 42
And the quotes are anything but “fear provoking”. Strip it from the forced audience of proles forced to hear it and the blue screen…it’s nothing. One could put any candidate up on that screen: Edwards, Obama himself, Dodd, heck…Nelson Mandela…saying the same thing. Yawn! Why not select something from her stance on Iran, or Israel? Oh wait…Obama isn’t that far off on the latter.
Now if you had any of the Republican candidates up there you could obtain HOURS of ominous comments about everything from torture to the NSA wiretapping. And they’d do it with a smirk.
As a Ca progressive Dem did not vote for Feinstein so do not have her on my conscience and it seems that the only way to ever change is to not vote this people in again.Ditto for the Clinton team. It is a disaster waiting to happen and I for one will no longer jump on the bandwagon and hold my nose to do it. We as a party have choices and up to all of us to do the right thing.We will continue to go down this path until things are so out of balance and bad that a change has to come. So will support the progressives and not support the entrenced at all. Period .and that includes if she gets the nod.refuse to suppost and condone any further corruption and a team of power hungry sell outs.just because and especially if the name is Clinton=more telecom , Nafta, war, etc anyone!Not to mention Penn,McAuliff,Carville, Emanuel, and the myriad of others that work to destroy us all. Yes I know The Repugs are lots worse,but is this the rally cry really?
lauren @ 98
With whom? Where? In Iraq?
Like the idea of staged withdrawal. Don’t like the idea of having a brigade still there “to protect the embassy”…while others are used to protect humanitarian workers. The brigade will start to be used for additional things….such as protecting those troops used to protect humanitarian workers. It’s called mission creep.
Similarly…you put a couple of brigades just outside of Iraq in Kuwait and they’ll soon be used back in Iraq. And they will have to establish bases back in Iraq to accomplish their missions. It’s simply impossible logistically to have a viable anti-terrorist/ anti-civil war unit commuting into the country daily and then back out again at dusk.
Swopa, great post. It’s good that opinions expressed here are open minded and not GOP talking points. Hillary is now getting equal consideration and that’s a big improvement here. May the best person win. I will vote for the Democratic nominee, whomever that may be.
This is her wishful projection, trying to get her opponents to stop criticizing her inevitability.
From recently released figures, it’s a dead heat in Iowa between the Hillary, Edwards and Obama. Big dog mad.
Take a look at the New Hampshire figures, though. Her lead is widening there. Any momentum a challenger has coming out of Iowa will be immediately blunted, if not reversed. This “Iowa Uber Alles” attitude that Edwards and Obama have is going to come back and bite them in the ass. They need to start looking beyond Iowa and start tearing down Hillary’s firewalls in the other states.
Tam; her lead over Obama in N.H. is 10 points, down from 21.