The Iowa Caucuses are fast approaching on Jan. 3rd. Our Iowa readers have been providing some invaluable snapshots of the campaign trail — as have our other early primary state readers, frankly, and we really appreciate it.
The horse race reporting of late has had Hillary Clinton moving way ahead, and then maybe not as Edwards surges…no, wait, make that Obama…no wait…
It’s tough to take any poll with a minimum of a 4.9 percent margin of error seriously. But something worth highlighting is the enormous effect that well-informed voters in Iowa can have during the caucuses. Dan Balz has a piece on this point in the WaPo — on how much of a difference a few people can make…or break. To wit:
Because the ultimate universe of caucus attendees is relatively small (only about 125,000 people participated in the Democratic caucuses in 2004), the amount of information every campaign is gathering about likely caucus participants can be staggering. In a year like this, that could mean some undecided voters will be contacted hundreds of times by the various campaigns. It’s enough to try the patience of even the most dedicated activists — one Iowan said Monday morning he’s ready for the whole thing to be over — but many seem to take it in stride.
The most distinguishing feature of the caucuses, and what makes them far different from presidential primaries, is that when Iowans gather in schools and church basements and other places on caucus night, everything is out in the open. This can be intimidating for first-time participants, a fact that concerns every campaign this year that is looking to expand the traditional universe of caucus attendees. But it is the essence of Iowa’s system.
In a primary, voters quietly fill out their ballots and leave. In the caucuses, they are required to come and stay for several hours, and there are no secret ballots. In the presence of friends, neighbors and occasionally strangers, Iowa Democrats vote with their feet, by raising their hands and moving to different parts of the room to signify their support for one candidate or another.
Think about that for a moment: only about 125,000 total voters participated in the 2004 Democratic caucuses in Iowa — the seismic shift from Dean to Kerry momentum in an instant. Then tell me you’d be willing to sit it out and let someone else make the choice for you.
I found an interview with David Yepsen, a fine reporter at the DesMoines Register whose work I have followed for ages. Yepsen spoke with Ben Weyl of the Iowa Independent about the democratizing effect that he sees from blogs and individual political involvement. I found it refreshing and frank:
…When first reached by phone Wednesday, Yepsen asked if he could postpone the interview until later in the day — he needed to finish his latest blog post. That the dean of the Iowa political press corps is now a blogger undoubtedly says something about the changing media environment. “Clearly the arrival of the Internet and the blogosphere has changed journalism and I think it’s healthy,” he said. “I work in the mainstream media and some in the mainstream media complain about it. I don’t. I think it’s a great democratizing thing.”
Yepsen said that he was pleased with the emergence of the blogosphere even when he has found its guns trained at him. “I think it’s wonderful that people are expressing their opinions and have that outlet — even when they’re critical of me,” he said. “It’s the First Amendment in action.” Yepsen said he had a few favorite blogs on the Iowa and national scene but declined to identify them for fear of leaving someone out. “I try to spend a little time each day because I know that it has an impact on politics,” he said….Yepsen said the blogosphere “does get a little uncivil at times but it’s a free country.”…
Yepsen urged Iowans to learn about the campaigns and to attend the caucuses next year. “We’re fortunate in Iowa to see these people up close, to interact with them. We can learn a lot. [It's] unfortunate that some people complain about things but don’t go to the caucuses. More than any other Americans, Iowans have an opportunity to influence who the next president is.”
I loved Yepsen’s willingness to look at his reporting as a means to help shape his community for the better. From that proactive perspective, feedback from readers — good or bad — was helpful because, in Yepsen’s mind, they had just as much right to speak up for their community as he did. Bravo to him. Amazing how much clearer one’s mind can be when breathing the air outside the Beltway, isn’t it?
To all of our readers in early caucus or primary states, please take the time to get involved. Report back what you are seeing and hearing and, even better, what you are doing to support your candidate of choice or what you are doing to learn more about the candidates you like. Alas, living in WV as I do, I’m afraid I’ll always be a Presidential primary bridesmaid, since usually the party’s choice is made long before I get near a voting booth (the Kennedy election being the exception to the rule). So help me live vicariously through your political activity. Share what you are seeing and hearing on the ground where all the action is. You know everyone here is dying to hear your news…
(Photo via Bright Meadow.)
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Christy!
zed
Hello I-oh-way!
Wow, everybody’s quicker than me this morning!
“there’s nothing like the Iowa way to greet you. If they greet you. Which they may not do at all!”
FunnyDiva
I feel your pain even out here in Kawleefornyah.
The primary system is a failed system for determining the party candidate. Why do rural states like Iowa and New Hampshire have such an impact? Made sense when the nation was primarily rural but in today’s modern society it’s a ludicrous. No offense to the good people of either state but this is a tradition that needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.
And for all the Iowa folks in the audience, do take a little time to go to Great Plains Pizza in Ames. A friend of mine owns it, and he’s a wonderful human being. (No idea of his politics because we spent way more time talking science fiction. Haven’t seen him in ages, but if you see Gordie, tell him I said howdy.)
This year will be the first for me to have a say before it is pretty much a done deal…. AZ has moved up to Feb 5th.
BTW after yesterday it is pretty nice day in Seattle today
Mmph. You and me both (California). No one bothers visiting us out here. So I never get this sort of chance the Iowans get.
I’ve never understood why that should be. I’ve always thought that the first states to get at a primary should rotate so everyone gets a chance to do what Yepsen and others get to do.
OT:
Sign on to the resolution calling for the California Democratic Party to censure the Senator
back to read.
I’m off to meet Edward’s manager. I’ll try to do the firepups proud. I’m taking the questions from this AM with me. Thank you all. Jim C
Why Christy, 125,000 . . .
Iowa lot to that fine select group.
In fact, we all do.
Their choices are always impeccable -
I don’t know why the rest of us even bother to second THEIR choices. Why not end it right there?
Election Reform, anyone?
Whatever the politics, Great Plains has the best thick crust pizza EVAH. Soooo good that I can’t imagine a Republican making and baking it. :)
tw3k @ 10
Beat me to it. Just got that email myself. Interesting.
And where’s Boxer? She’s disappeared…
Jim Clausen @ 11
Go for it Jim! We look forward to your report.
There is a lot wrong with this country… perhaps more wrong than right. But all you can do is bitch and try to make it better.
One thing which applies to everything… nothing is fair. Some have more power and get a pass. Others struggle and then die.
I’m sorry, but I really do not give a fuck about Iowans and their caucuses. Why such an incredibly small percentage of the overall population (much less a medium-sized state) has such clout over the electoral process is appalling.
It’s dumb and so is the electoral college. So much for one person one vote.
I apologize for the somewhat OT, but apropos citizen democracy, Californians, please take note: petition requesting that California Democratic Party censure Feinstein.
I signed. I hope other Californians will, too.
And you can’t be a candidate unless you have lots of dough or can raise it pronto. Where’s that at?
We’re a government for and by the rich. That’s pretty accurate.
Obama is said by MSM to be on the move in Iowa because of the “inspiring and spirited” speech he gave at that dinner on Saturday night. Tweety and Tucker were all over themselves yesterday about that as they both sucked it to Mama…
egregious @ 15
Yay!
I hope you got Cinnamonape’s questions!
I’m sorry for OT, but I’m in rapid response mode to BS conservative e-mail chains…
Can someone point me to the salon article that demonstrated where these things originate – i.e. Scaife & Co.?
Thanks in advance.
Apologies, Christy.
Another black kid gunned down by the NYC police. We are the city of cop killers. Be careful if you have black skin. It might cost you your life.
Bluetoe @ 6
Why is the South allowed to have such an impact? That’s equally ludicrous.
Another fine moment from my senator … McCain
McCain supporter calls Hillary a bitch
T- at 23 — It was in The Nation, and also at Making Light and Buzzflash. All the links you need are here. And that’s just for starters…
You mean city of killers who are cops. A cop killer is someone who kills cops. *g*
On a four-way forced choice question:
34% think “President Bush has abused his powers as president which rise to the level of impeachable offenses under the Constitution and he should be impeached and removed from office.”
21% think “President Bush has abused his powers as president which rise to the level of impeachable offenses under the Constitution, but he should not be impeached.”
9% think “President Bush has abused his powers as president, but the abuses are not serious enough to warrant impeachment under the Constitution.”
36% think “President Bush has not abused his powers as president.”
On another four-way forced choice question:
43% think “Vice President Cheney has abused his powers as vice president which rise to the level of impeachable offenses under the Constitution and he should be impeached and removed from office.”
9% think “Vice President Cheney has abused his powers as vice president which rise to the level of impeachable offenses under the Constitution, but he should not be impeached.”
18% think “Vice President Cheney has abused his powers as vice president, but the abuses are not serious enough to warrant impeachment under the Constitution.”
30% think “Vice President Cheney has not abused his powers as vice president.”
Biodun @ 21
They build up one candidate. Matthews has been talking up Hillary for nearly a year. Then they tear the candidate down. Then they build up someone else and do the same thing to them.
I am not following the rubbish from the campaign at this point. It’s too early to waste all this time and energy on these candidates. it’s not even news, but distraction of some things which need attention.
katymine @ 26
Perhaps the McCain camp sees no reason to comment on planted questions.
CHARGE!!!!
Thanks, CHS.
You’re right I meant killer cops… Our cops shoot first then say nothing, then lie.
OT but interesting. Sharon Bush, Neil Bush’s ex-wife is selling on eBay some of the stuff she must of gotten from the divorce including Congressman GHW Bush’s Congressional desk.:George HW Bush’s Desk
peanutbutter @ 14
i dunno, these congresscritters are all over the place
Sander — You mean this 18 year old kid in Bed-Sty?
You are also a city with a large population, some of whom happen to be violent, wield knives, act threatening, and sometimes kill cops. This is why there are internal investigations on conduct — and why it is so dangerous to respond to domestic situations no matter where you are.
But I have found in my experience, that things are rarely cut and dried on either side of the lines.
I love that Yepsen has moved into blogging, and sees it as the First Amendment in action.
That is a fine reminder that while most of the folks here at FDL do not live in Iowa, we can indeed have an influence on their caucuses and debates. Iowa Firepups who attend the caucuses will no doubt be bolstered by the wisdom of the ‘Lake — even if it comes from outside the state.
So, friends, any words of progressive wisdom to offer the fine folks of Iowa, to bring to their fellow caucus-goers?
tw3k @ 36
She was, a couple of days ago, out here in Ca regarding the oil spill. Her picture was in SF Chronicle standing by the Bay.
rwcole @ 29
Link, please.
Given the importance of the caucuses, I am surprised there aren’t more Iowa bloggers.
Peterr
Sure:
http://pollster.com/
From the BBC offered without comment:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7091904.stm
Hugh at 43 — Well, he doesn’t qualify for a Darwin Award. Perhaps his own special category of idiocy? The Department Of Ricochet Award?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
That guy doesn’t but this guy does.
I was referring to that incident. The police can use non lethal means to subdue a “suspect”. Diallo was shot 41 times on his front stoop and posed no threat to anyone. Louima was sodomized by the police who had arrested him and he was guilty of nothing other than being black.
Sean Bell was executed by several cops when he was in his own car and posed no threat to anyone.
The cops have a mindset that every black is a killer and so they shoot first. Parents of hispanic and black children are petrified of the police in this city.
If you look at the number of blacks who have been murdered by cops you would not even defend them. Patrick Dorismond, Michael Stewart, Eleanor Bumpers, Anthony Baez and the list goes on and on and on. Blacks are being targeted and taken out.
Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL) filed papers with the House of Representatives establishing a legal defense fund earlier this week.
Federal investigators stepped up their probe of Feeney’s ties to Jack Abramoff in April. Abramoff brought Feeney along on one of his infamous golf junkets to Scotland, this one in 2003. Feeney was one among three lawmakers on the trip — the other two were ex-Reps. Bob Ney (R-OH) and Tom DeLay (R-TX
Laura Doty @ 19
I’m not a californian, but I signed. Feinstein’s position on the committee makes her MY representative too.
I would go so far to say that the tactic is akin to the use of torture. The sole purpose is to terrorize a population and render them like sheep.
I would be scared shitless to be black in this city. The cabs don’t even stop for you.
I just finished reading the speech Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson gave on Oct.27th. An incredible speech for the
I remember that day well. There were thousands of us marching in Seattle.
I think the tide’s turning. Mayor Anderson gave an activist leader’s voice to the movement. And Dennis Kucinich gave voice. And Chris Dodd.
Maybe all this watching Clinton, Obama,McCain etal is going to prove pointless.
Imagine a national decision to choose a work horse over a show pony. A patriot instead of a “poser”.It’d be a tough sell but maybe the young people are ready for a change.
rwcole @ 42
Following their links back to the original polling outfit’s website shows some interesting breakdowns by party identification.
Let’s start with this one: 18% of Republicans think Bush should be impeached and removed from office. That number is not likely to shrink as more information comes out about BushCo’s activities (warrantless wiretapping, waterboarding, US attorney firings, email destruction, playing fast and loose with intelligence in the run-up to war, etc.). Another 12% of Republicans think Bush has committed impeachable offenses, but ought not to be removed from office. With more revelations, these folks seem likely to me to move into the “removal” category.
Regardless of what happens with impeachment itself, if I were a Democratic presidential candidate, those numbers would make me smile. The more the Dems can tie Rudy McRomney to GWB, the better for the Democratic nominee.
Great little 2-minute video on our pathetic MSM….
http://www.theonion.com/conten…..EMTF_Onion
From my Iowa family it seems like A LOT of people have still not made up their minds.
My 65 year old mother loves the fact that there is a woman and an African American on the ballot and is a little distressed by the fact that she is leaning towards Edwards.
I went to the WA caucus in ‘04 and it was a blast. People gather around large tables by precinct and talk politics. Someone makes a case for a candidate and we start hashing it out.
OpenHope… if only.
I am so tired of all these show ponies made for tv.
I love the Caucuses. It will be fast paced deal making action. In my first caucus, I was firmly committed to Gary Hart. We did not have enough people in our group so my roommate and I brokered a deal to become delegates for the county convention in exchange for giving our support to Gephardt if I recall. I think Gephardt ended up winning in Iowa. Dukakis wound up third that year in Iowa. Just goes to show Iowa is not always the end all be all. It is historically a great barometer as to what type of organization a candidate has in place.
tw3k @ 10
Not to toot my own horn but, I mentioned this twice (the E-Board meetings) last week (technically the censure only once) here at FDL.
Anywhoo, if you’re in SoCal or plan to be in SoCal, and a California Democrat, and want to do something about how things are going with your party, especially how you’re not being represented by those who should be representing you (DiFi …etc.) – go to the E-Board Meetings – especially if you’re a delegate – and tell them how you feel. Most meetings are open to all
California Democratic Party Executive Board Meeting
When: This coming weekend November 16-18, 2007
Where: NOTE HOTEL CHANGE: Sheraton Park Hotel at the Anaheim Resort
http://www.cadem.org/site/c.jr…..Agenda.htm
SanderO @ 49
The Bed-Sty City Council member was on Brian Lehrer this morning. You can find the audio replay on this page. http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2007/11/13
He seems to think that, while community-police relations are not good yet, there is a process in place to improve them.
Bluetoe @ 6
First, what would you suggest replace the current mix of primaries and caucuses? The smoke filled back rooms where the party bosses told the voters who the candidate was?
The primary and caucus system we have today is in fact a relatively new phenomenon and is not a relic of the old days when the country was mostly rural.
The benefit of having states such as Iowa and NH first is it forces the candidates to meet with real live voters face to face. It’s called “retail” politics. These two states have kind of evolved into their positions through accidents.
The NH primary goes back to the early fifties or before. It was the shock of Eugene McCarthy taking significant votes from the incumbent Lyndon Johnson in 1968 that really jump started NH then followed closely by McGovern taking on Muskie in ‘72.
Iowa got its name when Jimmy Carter used it in ‘76 as a springboard to the nomination.
Are they perfectly representative states? No they are not but they are not as far out of the mainstream as you might think. I’m sure many other small states could do the same as these two but both of these states have many people who are extremely serious about trying to vet the candidates views to reflect the views of the parties.
If everything began with big state primaries, then the well-healed front runner with tons of money would be able to sit back and run TV ads and never see any actual voters. If we went with national primaries it would be the same thing plus no one candidate would get that 50% plus one level of delegates (Dem party pro-rates the delegate awards based on candidates receiving at least 15% of the vote I believe) so we would be back to brokered back room deals on the 2nd, 3rd or twelfth ballot at the convention.
I was standing at the edge of the crowd at a political rally before the elections last year when I made idle chat with the guy standing next to me (he was a political consultant). One thing led to another and he proceeded to say that he hated the way the Iowa caucases were first in the nation and had so much influence. Being from the great state of Iowa, I proceeded to tell him that I envy the people of Iowa and wished I lived back home. Why? Because its the only time an everyday working person like myself ever had the chance to sit at the kitchen table and tell a candidate exactly what I think. Everyone should get to experience that. It’s awsome.
Paida @ 53
Tell her that it’s really important that the first woman or Black prez must be the right one. Your mother should vote on the issues.
I feel sorry for the folks in Iowa. They are a smart bunch of folks. I hope they show this country what a sorry lot of candidates we have and just stay home.
Our “leading” candidates all seem to think war is the answer, and act very much like the new boss will be the old boss. They seem to approve of all these new “perks” the ole’ boss has given them and won’t renounce treason in this new century. This path will lead us right to the same sewer, but it will have a thicker scum layer as our country flows down that drain to the sea.
David W. Bartoo @ 12
I have to disagree. Does everyone just assume that Iowa and New Hampshire make these choices for us? The media does, but the voters shouldn’t. Elections, even primaries, have consequences.
All this hyping of HRC by the media leads me to believe that they are setting us up for the big “shooooow”, i.e., an Edwards “upset”, followed by the “who’d a thunk it”…ratings, ratings, ratings…the best “stories” always have a good “conflict” going, and I don’t believe any of those polls…only the one’s that I personally participate in, *g*.
mighty mouse @ 13
I’ll second that.
The January 3 date of the caucus may influence the outcome.
First, it is going to be hard for the candidates to get much traction after Thanksgiving. The holidays just aren’t a good time for campaigning. This holiday freeze is going to hurt Obama, who seems to be on a roll.
Second, the Orange Bowl is on January 3. This will probably result in more women than men attending. This should help Hillary.
Third, Obama has a lot of strength with the college crowd. Unfortunately, the Universities will not be in seesion on Januaray 3. This will hurt Obama.
Twain @ 39
I would like to see her comment on the reports that many people who tried to show up to help clean up the spill were chased away, in some cases rather forcibly…?
old gold @ 66
You make some good points there.
Old Gold at 66 — Not necessarily if the college kids caucus from their hometowns. They could have more influence than usual in that context — Dan Balz has some ins and outs of that in his article that I found intriguing as possibilities given the nature of the “horsetrading” for support from non=majority-candidate supporters to gain majorities for other candidates that can occur at individual caucuses. Interesting stuff in terms of negotiation tactics and political pressure points, I have to say, just in the abstract.
old gold @ 66
What about the Rs? Strictly TV-ad RomneY?
john in sacramento @ 57
Cool and nope I’m in PA :/
I liked that DU link you posted. That info should get around more.
Katymine; thanks for that clip.
To me, it raises some interesting things:
John McCain is a political idiot, to not instantly chastise his supporter for her mindless vitriol which has now been displayed on television, along with McCain’s sliiiightly embarrassed reaction.
I think it was a pretty good thumbnail;
an indicator of the visceral anger that Clinton engenders among repubicans, including republican women. The lady speaking the words got a good reaction from the rest of the people in the meeting. No one booed her or seemed to give the slightest indication of remonstrating with her.
I note the addition to the evidence that, with the helpe of the MSM, most republicans believe that Clinton already has the democratic nomination in hand, and because of that they’re already starting to show their fangs.
I note that the woman had no interest in talking about her specific objections to Clinton policies, and I suspect, neither did any of the other republicans in that meeting. All they needed to hear was “HILLARY!” and at that point, “issues” be damned.
The don’t hate her because she tried to push some kind of health-care reform as first lady; or because she’s pro-choice; they just hate her, with a mindless and unrelenting hatred.
And that doesn’t stop at the republican door; it carries over to a LOT of independents and conservative democrats.
I oppose Clinton on the issues; her unapologetic support for the war; her connections with the rightwing; and just her general lack of progressive convictions on some important issues.
I also oppose her because I don’t think she can be elected.
With conservatives, and a lot of independents, the issues matter not a whit. Her name is Clinton, and they will get out of traction, to vote against her.
We simply cannot afford to nominate a candidate who gets that kind of a response in this election.
angry_cyclone @ 60
This is why I love the Blue America chats. It gives that same kind of direct connection with candidates, outside of (or in addition to) all the pre-packaged ads, the kabuki interviews, and other posturing that we see all too often.
Chris Dodd has come by the Lake for a chat, as has Hillary Clinton. Christy has offered an open invitation to ALL the candidates, but so far as I know, these are the only two who have taken her up on it.
Two hours chatting at the ‘Lake might be a fine way for a candidate to reach a lot of voters in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina all at the same time, not to mention voters in other states. If any of the candidates’ senior advisors are lurking, just drop Christy an email, and I’m sure she can work out a time.
angry_cyclone @ 60
Yes, quite. So rotate the damned primaries to make it happen. I think it’s great to have that chance. I resent that it’s always given to the same set of states.
LS @ 64
I kinda thought hillary looked like a pump-n-dump.
I recieved a polling call last night. Went through the typical rate Bush. Had two questions on whether I will definetly be attending the Caucases. The first question was a general will you be attending. The second question towards the end mentioned that Jan. 3 in Iowa is close to the holidays and can be cold out, inclimate weather, etc… and then wanted me to rate my committment to attending again. Somebody is gauging the level of commitment for supporters.
Elliott @ 22
What were cinnamonape’s questions? I love that guy/gal.
Peterr @ 73
Agreed…these have been very interesting.
And MSM has been saying that Edwards needs to win in Iowa; otherwise he’s finished. They emphasize that to all intents and purposes he’s been living in Iowa for sometime now because he knows the stakes. Tweety has just about written him off. Doesn’t it seem just a little while ago he had the Edwards on Hardball and was more or less going gaga for Elizabeth?
An interesting difference of opinion about Ron Paul between Glenn Greenwald and David Neiwert.
rwcole @ 42
I am just disheartened by this poll – unless the 1,100 people they contacted for it all lived inside the beltway…
Loo Hoo @ 77
here
Paida @ 53
And that’s why I always inform my Iowa family what I learn from the Lake because the media sure doesn’t report it.
old gold @ 66
The holiday effect is that the campaigning shifts from candidate-to-caucus-goer to more of a “talk amonst yourselves” kind of thing. The Thanksgiving and Christmas dinnertable conversations will become quite interesting, with the caucuses just after the new year. “So, grandpa, did you hear what so-and-so said about . . .” It won’t shut down the campaigning, but will shift it in these big family gatherings.
As for the Orange Bowl effect . . . Given the place of Iowa football teams in the current football standings, I think the sports-minded Iowans are likely ready to switch to college basketball as soon as possible. I don’t think the Orange Bowl will make much of an impact, for Hillary or anyone else.
angry_cyclone @ 60
Everyone should get to experience that, but most of us never will because we live in the wrong state. That’s why my objection to the process is that it’s always Iowa and New Hampshire. If it rotated to different states, I think it could be fine.
wigwam @ 80
That is interesting.
Also, I found it interesting that this call for UFO investigations suddenly came out so soon after Kucinich is labelled as loonie:
http://www.reuters.com/article…..112?rpc=24
I would really love to see a brokered convention from either party. The primary system is media driven and the lovefest conventions are nauseating. Let’s have backroom political horse-trading and multiple late night votes.
Badwater @ 87
I miss those. ;-)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 69
I don’t think so. Here is why:
1]When they are home in Burnt Stump it is going to be hard to identify and turn them out as opposed to if they were sitting in a dorm room in Iowa City, Cedar Falls or Ames.
2]The way the caucus system works [a solid block in one location is much better than the same number spread across several sites] there position in Burnt Stump will probably be diluted.
3] The University Of Iowa is often called the University of Illinois In Eastern Iowa. Literally, a third or so are from the Land Of Lincoln. This is also true of Iowa State, but less so. If they were in School, they could register at the caucus and participate. Being from Illinois, I would think that would be of benefit to Obama. Of course, sitting in Chicago or Moline isn’t going to allow them to participate.
wigwam @ 88
Me three. Although I’m not sure we’d like ‘em now, for reals.
Badwater @ 87
We still have multiple late night votes, it’s just that Karl Rove is making them on the night of the general election.
thanks tw3k
SanderO @ 31
Suit yourself. As a potential “opinion maker” because I pay attention to politics more than a lot of people I associate with, I consider it something of an obligation to try to be informed about the candidates actual positions and proposals so I can pass that along to others. If we don’t do it, they’re going to get information from the fluff-filled political press. Trying to make use of network effects to distribute better information seems to me like the best response to the media problems we all complain about.
And oh, the polls also say that Hillary is leading Obama among African-Americans. That’s what prompted Michelle Obama’s remarks on teevee about “self-doubt” and “possibilities” a coupla days ago.
egregious @ 91
Elections to Die(bold) for!
Red,
I hear you. I don’t work closely with others and so I simply inform myself through reading online and so forth. I think I understand the candidates without spending too much time with them and need not know every one of their positions.
I can’t sit through the nonsense “debates” and the idiot headlines about them. It it not hard to know the broad positions at this point and as far as issues, I would choose something like this:
denis
edwards
dodd
obama
hillary
richardson
biden
Anyone one of them is tons better tha any republican and I don’t think that my fav choices will win. They never do.
Elliott @ 92
No, thank you! :)
I wouldn’t have gone back to look.
Laura Doty @ 90
Yeah, the back room deals did such a good job giving us presidents like Hayes, Coolidge, Harding, Grant, McKinley, and all those other shining lights that were chosen by the boys in the backrooms from the Civil War on. There was an occasional burp where there was someone with a spine and far better than the back room folks thought and less controllable (TR fer inst’) but those were more exception than the norm.
Laura Doty @ 95
competition for punias[sp?] i see :)
punaise…
No, tw3k, Punaise is da KING.
tw3k @ 97
Should point out that they won’t be answered…definitely not!
The Campaign Director will say something like…policy is not in my gambit…go to our website.
I read the Yepsen article; it’s wonderful.
On the sidebar, there’s a link to Edwards in Dubuque. Go, listen to it. This is the Edwards that’s not getting covered in the MSM — and after you listen, you’ll understand why.
I say this not just as an Edwards supporter, but as a voter who longs for this sort of substantive coverage of candidates — not the “look, look at me and how clever I am” questioning of narcissists Tweety and Pumpkinhead. Thanks, Christy, for blazing a path to this.
Edwards in Dubuque [Mods, I can’t make this link work — either via the Independent’s page or YouTube. Can you help?] [Mod: Refresh]
SanderO @ 96
Okay, sounds like we’re actually pretty much on the same page — research enough to be well-informed, but ignore the fluff and don’t get too deep into details that aren’t going to survive the legislative process unchanged anyway.
Any arguments against difi censure being a bad idea?
Biodun @ 100
ah, yes, thank you.
Off the top of my head, I only know the names of a few of the spouses of the potential candidates…just reflecting on name recognition…all of the partners that I do know, seem to be campaigning in a teamlike manner.
HRC – spouse Bill
Edwards – spouse Elizabeth
Kucinich – spouse Elizabeth
Obama – spouse Michelle
Dodd – spouse ?
Richardson – spouse ?
Biden – spouse ?
Ghouliani – spouse Judith
Thompson – spouse ?
Romney – spouse ?
McCain – spouse ?
Paul – spouse ?
Tancredo – spouse ?
tw3k @ 105
I think it’s a great idea. May not make any difference but it certainly would be a slap in that smug face. I truly believe that she will be stunned.
Hugh @ 43
I hope Keith Olbermann’s folks are perusing this. Would be fun to see on tonight’s show.
tw3k @ 105
I think a good argument for doing it is that there are almost certainly voters in California who assume that since she’s a Democrat, she must have views on the issues similar to what other Democrats have. In her case, that’s a very bad assumption.
Can’t think of any arguments against doing it, though, other than the obvious one – it could create open animosity between the state party and the Senator.
McCain: spouse Cindy
any censure being offered against Schumer in his state?
cinnamonape @ 102
If Jim could direct a question directly to Edwards using a less “provocative” question like “how many brigades in Kuwait?” That would be a step in the right direction.
The Iraq questions alone leave me hesitant about Edwards.
cujo359 @ 110
Well, then we’d all know that she isn’t a Dem any more. It ought to get more attention. (Signed.)
Edwards isn’t going to win the Iowa caucus. He will be fortunate to come in third.
Unlike the rest of the country, Iowa’s economy is very vibrant. The reason for this is that corn [$3.75/bu] and bean [$9.75/bu] prices are damn near at historic highs. These commodities drive the Iowa economy.
In this economic setting, Edwards’ message of economic justice just isn’t selling like it did in 2004.
Hugh @ 43
Don’t you just love reading about American ingenuity in action? No WD-40? Try shaking that rust loose!
I admit there have been times when I’ve felt like shooting my vehicle, but I’d have stood much farther away and aimed higher.
Tancredo is running a “war of the world’s doomsday, jihadist terrorists are here in American and going to bomb our malls because we have open borders campaign ad here in Iowa. Including clips of all the world’s most recent terrorist attacks up close.
Interesting that Tancredo would be advertising about his own parties failures. If I recall, it was this congressional term that the Democrats passed into law all of the recommendations made by the 9/11 commission.
I firmly believe there is something wrong with GOP’s. Some sort of hard coded flaw.
Laura Doty @ 95
Diebold is now called Premier Election Solutions – but you knew that already ;-) – and they have a hearing coming up at the Secretary of State’s office which I’m going to attend unless something comes up
tw3k @ 82
Thanks!
Peanutbutter, want to go to the function in Anaheim that John in Sacremento mentioned upthread?
Re mine @ 103: Thanks, mods. You can edit out my plea to you and make me sound less like an idiot.
And/or point me in the direction of how to do this. I thought I followed all the steps as laid out before [using the linky thing, cut ‘n pasting, etc., but still duh.
Twain @ 108
I don’t disagree. Just curious if it’d possibly create a precedent. A leverage against opposition.
http://www.learcenter.org/html/projects/?cm=zogby
Interesting poll…
john in sacramento @ 118
I hit submit instead of preview ;-)
The hearing info is here
old gold @ 115
I disagree with your assessments. While the Ag economy has been vibrant, Iowa has lost a lot of Mfg. Jobs. Typically, the rural population vote Republican anyway. It is in the metro areas that have been hit with a loss of manufacturing jobs. Plus Edwards has built a solid organization. Granted HRC with all of her DLC and Lobbyist money has bought herself an organization. Edwards organizational structure is grassroots and hopefully more committed to showing up to caucus.
I’ve lived in Iowa my whole life (except for college) but I didn’t get really interested in politics until 2000. Now I’m the one who bores the rest of the family at the dinner table with all the political information that I feel is very important for them to know. *g* Thanks in part to Firedoglake, I usually know what I’m talking about.
I feel very fortunate that I’m able to get up close to the candidates and I’ve heard a few of them speak several times. I’ve even shared cookies with Bill Richardson and mango salsa with Barack Obama. I do think it would be great for other states to have these opportunities, but in the meantime, I’m very excited about attending my first caucus. I’ll be happy to let you all know what it’s like if you’re interested.
Now I’ve got Great Plains pizza on the brain. Lucky for me, I only have to drive about 15 minutes away to get it!
Here’s an interesting little article about the reopeng of an inquirey into domestic surveillance.
(Mukasey affectively took office four days ago.)
It’s odd– those voters in NH and Iowa get all pissy and indignant when another state threatens to hold a primary sooner than theirs, but then they bitch and moan when the candidates flood their state and try to reach out to them. Screw those people. Let’s have a primary schedule that rotates, that gives all states in the Union a chance to be up front once in awhile.
Often overlooked in the whole calculation in Iowa is that the caucuses are designed for insiders (aka “Party People”). This design is a nod to the hard work and continual effort put forth by the state party workers ; the clubs, the committees, the codifiers and platform writers, the party fabric and organization as a whole. This point was overlooked to our detriment in the Dean campaign (Joe Trippi knew this. But he was MIA). The very people the Dean campaign was campaigning “against”–we were after all “outsiders” and “insurgents” against a staid party structure–those people RAN the caucuses. We watched helplessly as our people, unfamiliar with the both the process and the operators of the caucus, were essentially ignored and unable to perform the caucus horsetrading endemic to the whole process. The result was of course the “stunning” Kerry win. Not stunning to the established DEMs who resented the insurgency. Only to the press.
I mention this by way of the “result” in Iowa being subject to the same sorts of establishment pressures as both the Dean and Edwards Campaigns experienced last time around. There will be significant pressure to select Hillary from the Party People. Count on it.
Dee @ 81
Well the involvement with Hillary’s #1 Mark Penn– master pollster and major influence within the polling community, is not lost on me.
All polls are suspect in this election. Penn is the GO TO guy if you want to be a pollster in this country.
Mike Hickerson @ 128
I agree!
global yokel @ 127
i lived in Iowa for fourteen years. you will not find a better place in the country to sort out the bullshit of politicians. America is in trouble largely because so many of our traditions have been trashed. playing the shell game with primary dates is just one more way for the criminally powerful to cheat the rest of us. there is nothing wrong and quite a lot of good for Iowa and New Hampshire to continue to start things off.
angry_cyclone @ 60
Do you believe that it would be awesome for everyone to experience that attention, or is it awesome for Iowans only? The political consultant was absolutely right, and you are advancing a strawman argument. No one doubts the benefits of politicians meeting with everyday working people. The OBVIOUS problem is the lack of opportunity for the vast majority of Americans to do this. Listen to yourself. You wish you still lived in Iowa so you could be heard by the candidates. Why should the “great” state of Iowa alone have this opportunity? Iowa (with New Hampshire) has selfishly maintained a stranglehold on the process which has worked to the detriment of the party as a whole. Iowa went for Bush in 2004, for @(*& sakes. What the hell is a red state doing at the head of the line? It is beyond ridiculous. The system has to change. The early caucus/primary states should be blue, and chosen on a rotating basis. No state should ever have such a dominant role again. The other 48 states have everyday working people as well. Let the spotlight finally shine on them.
fahrender @ 131
The old “tradition” excuse. There is nothing noble about refusing to change an unfair situation. Your last sentence states that there is nothing wrong with Iowa and New Hampshire continuing to start things off. The Democratic Party is multi-racial, multi-cultural, and largely urban. The demographics of Iowa and New Hampshire do not represent these realities. There is a lot wrong with that.
It’s ironic that you are playing the fear card about proposed changes. That’s repug shtick.
Another Iowan checking in, age 46.
I have been fortunate enough to have seen Obama, Clinton, Edwards and Dodd (2x) up close and personal. I was out of town both times that Richardson was here. I missed seeing Obama for the second time last week because I was visiting with Dodd at the VFW. :)
I’m an Edwards supporter, with Dodd as my #2.
I have only attended the caucuses once, back in 1984. I can’t even remember who I supported back then. Probably Mondale.
I, like many people, have become more involved in politics since 2000. Still, I’m ashamed to say that I didn’t even caucus in 2004. I gave money to my first political campaign in 2006, and volunteered at the local Democratic headquarters, signing people up for absentee ballots prior to the election, and poll-watching on election day.
I live in a town of less than 30,000, and I can tell you that the ONLY yard signs I have seen are for Hillary Clinton. I contacted the local Edwards headquarters by email asking for yard signs. I was called and invited to a “sign-making” event that conflicted with my schedule.
This horse race is definitely not over. The LTE’s in my local newspaper have run the gamut from supporting Clinton, Obama and Edwards. I really think the “planted” questions will hurt Hillary in Iowa. We Iowans tend not to put up with bull**** like that.
I will be caucusing come snow or ice.
Edited to add: The TV commercials, both Democratic and Republican, are becoming highly tiresome. I answer all “unknown” calls on my caller ID just in case they are presidential candidate polls. I want people to know that I AM NOT caucusing for Hillary Clinton.
Eileen Left @ 133
ooooooo! be very afraid! there’s a whole lot of difference between being fearful and being prudently cautious. all you have to do is look at what has happened the past twelve months with different state organizations trying to elbow each other out of the way to have “their” place. who’s going to sort that out? who’s going to have the respect and authority to be listened to?
Demographics? you sound like one a them there new-fangled pollster people. as for what the Democratic party is, i’ve been a voting member for fifty years so i think i know a little bit about it too.
you won’t find any race-baiting going on in the Iowa caucus or New Hampshire. you can sneer at tradition if you want to. Addington, Cheney and Rumsfeld do …..