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	<title>Comments on: BREAKING:  Sky &#8212; Probably Not Falling</title>
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		<title>By: Ed Kunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094702</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094702</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not to beat a dead horse he said picking up a stick, I concede sometimes a strike must be called or what’s a union for, but unfortunately unions, no matter how right or justified, do not always win. I don’t see that the writers had an alternative, but I fear for them. Studio heads are not imbeciles. They most likely have something up their sleeves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for the difficulties of writing, I wrote a book (philosophy) over many years presenting what I believe is an original theory of human behavior. Writing is hard and there is no guarantee of success. I cannot get an agent let alone a publisher.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Christy in a post “Shaping the Facts” (sorry I don’t know how to insert links) wants to energize voters. If we can organize something to unite the blogs with people registering so we know where they live in order to act locally, we might be able to create an organization that gives real power to the people, something that influences political parties as well as voters, and we might be able to think of something to support the writers-like a boycott or other action to hit the bastards where they live.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to beat a dead horse he said picking up a stick, I concede sometimes a strike must be called or what’s a union for, but unfortunately unions, no matter how right or justified, do not always win. I don’t see that the writers had an alternative, but I fear for them. Studio heads are not imbeciles. They most likely have something up their sleeves.</p>
<p>As for the difficulties of writing, I wrote a book (philosophy) over many years presenting what I believe is an original theory of human behavior. Writing is hard and there is no guarantee of success. I cannot get an agent let alone a publisher.</p>
<p>Christy in a post “Shaping the Facts” (sorry I don’t know how to insert links) wants to energize voters. If we can organize something to unite the blogs with people registering so we know where they live in order to act locally, we might be able to create an organization that gives real power to the people, something that influences political parties as well as voters, and we might be able to think of something to support the writers-like a boycott or other action to hit the bastards where they live.</p>
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		<title>By: itwasntme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094512</link>
		<dc:creator>itwasntme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094512</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ed, I agree that writers are replaceable. And that’s fine. Except that the replacment writers will find they face the same difficulties as the current writers when they get there. See my post at 122.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, for your own edification, I’d like to propose this: pretend you are a writer on your favorite show. Write a script for that show in two weeks. Then write another one in two weeks, and so on for 13 shows. It’s not as easy as it appears when you read the script how much work and experience goes into it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:TeaLeaves@126&quot;&gt;TeaLeaves@126&lt;/a&gt;, I think you’ve said that very well. Thanks for the props.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, I agree that writers are replaceable. And that’s fine. Except that the replacment writers will find they face the same difficulties as the current writers when they get there. See my post at 122.</p>
<p>Also, for your own edification, I’d like to propose this: pretend you are a writer on your favorite show. Write a script for that show in two weeks. Then write another one in two weeks, and so on for 13 shows. It’s not as easy as it appears when you read the script how much work and experience goes into it.</p>
<p><a href="mailto:TeaLeaves@126">TeaLeaves@126</a>, I think you’ve said that very well. Thanks for the props.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Kunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094386</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094386</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don’t misunderstand. I think the writers should win; that they deserve to win; and that what they want is not unreasonable. That said, I’m not sure if it’s a long strike, which it seems it will be, that it will work out in the sense of the writers getting what they want. My analogy may not be exactly appropriate, but I don’t think the writers are as irreplaceable as they think&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There have been plenty of instances of strikes which end up with a picket line everyone ignores while business goes on more or less as usual.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t misunderstand. I think the writers should win; that they deserve to win; and that what they want is not unreasonable. That said, I’m not sure if it’s a long strike, which it seems it will be, that it will work out in the sense of the writers getting what they want. My analogy may not be exactly appropriate, but I don’t think the writers are as irreplaceable as they think</p>
<p>There have been plenty of instances of strikes which end up with a picket line everyone ignores while business goes on more or less as usual.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094264</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094264</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1094120&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Ed Kunin @ 120&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;…Not only do reality shows take minimal writing, movies and tv get more visual. People watch frame after frame of action with little dialogue. The bosses don’t care about content. They would broadcast test patterns if advertisers continue to buy time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Labor union members learn the hard way they do not have a monopoly on skill. The formerly highly touted American worker is replaced by Asian farmers who in two weeks learn how to make hard drives. Professional writers don’t have a monopoly on creativity. Youtube demonstrates so-called ordinary people are extremely creative.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Writers think they are different from automobile workers who circumstances have battered. I disagree. They are up against a stacked deck. The bosses, as usual, have the high cards.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your analogy is flawed. People working in factories making hard drives do not CREATE something out of thin air.  They participate in a rationalized, step-by-step process.  That’s the nature of that particular beast.  Their employment situation is not equivilent to writers — the factory workers didn’t invent the machine; they only work in it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But it’s a very different beast from watching someone create a complex, original thing — whether it’s an engineer inventing something that is patented, or a writer.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Equating working on any assembly line to working in ‘knowledge fields’ is flawed.  Assembly lines do not require investing in extended education.  Information-based jobs require a lot of training and practice.  Writers are information workers, but with a twist; like engineers, they create and invent.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;An engineer who gains patent protection gets a ‘residual’ every time that product is used.  Adobe still gets ‘residuals’ from Microsoft for every copy of Word that contains PDF code.  Everywhere you look, people are paid for what they invent and create.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where that doesn’t occur, economies lose their vitality.&lt;br /&gt;
If writers originate the ‘product’, then they should be paid throughout the lifecycle of the ‘product’ — whether it’s a movie, a tv show, or a video game plot.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The writers seem to simply be asking for fair treatment.  The ‘managerial class’ of Hollywood moguls were foolish to let things escalate to this point.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1094120"><em>Ed Kunin @ 120</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>…Not only do reality shows take minimal writing, movies and tv get more visual. People watch frame after frame of action with little dialogue. The bosses don’t care about content. They would broadcast test patterns if advertisers continue to buy time.</p>
<p>Labor union members learn the hard way they do not have a monopoly on skill. The formerly highly touted American worker is replaced by Asian farmers who in two weeks learn how to make hard drives. Professional writers don’t have a monopoly on creativity. Youtube demonstrates so-called ordinary people are extremely creative.</p>
<p>Writers think they are different from automobile workers who circumstances have battered. I disagree. They are up against a stacked deck. The bosses, as usual, have the high cards.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Your analogy is flawed. People working in factories making hard drives do not CREATE something out of thin air.  They participate in a rationalized, step-by-step process.  That’s the nature of that particular beast.  Their employment situation is not equivilent to writers — the factory workers didn’t invent the machine; they only work in it.</p>
<p>But it’s a very different beast from watching someone create a complex, original thing — whether it’s an engineer inventing something that is patented, or a writer.  </p>
<p>Equating working on any assembly line to working in ‘knowledge fields’ is flawed.  Assembly lines do not require investing in extended education.  Information-based jobs require a lot of training and practice.  Writers are information workers, but with a twist; like engineers, they create and invent.  </p>
<p>An engineer who gains patent protection gets a ‘residual’ every time that product is used.  Adobe still gets ‘residuals’ from Microsoft for every copy of Word that contains PDF code.  Everywhere you look, people are paid for what they invent and create.</p>
<p>Where that doesn’t occur, economies lose their vitality.<br />
If writers originate the ‘product’, then they should be paid throughout the lifecycle of the ‘product’ — whether it’s a movie, a tv show, or a video game plot.</p>
<p>The writers seem to simply be asking for fair treatment.  The ‘managerial class’ of Hollywood moguls were foolish to let things escalate to this point.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094237</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094237</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1094087&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Johnnywheaker @ 119&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;readerOfTeaLeaves @ 69&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regarding your speculation re motives&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I assume that part of this brouhaha reflects genuine terror among very driven, affluent interests that happen to be on the wrong demographic, technical, economic, and sociological side of the issue.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I repeat from an earlier post:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;can anyone comment on the possible political motivations behind the WGA strike, which conveniently takes out all late night TV but leaves O’Reilly and the rest of the Fox propaganda machine in place?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m just wondering if the aforesaid “affluent interests” also happen to be on the wrong end of the political spectrum.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your point about O’Reilly hadn’t crossed my mind.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for O’Reilly, the lucrative demographic has moved beyond him, b/c he can’t shed light on $100/barrel oil, and he can’t shed light on banks writing down billions in subprime loans.  If I owned Netflix or online gaming systems, I’d be thrilled that O’Reilly is the only guy on teevee — it’s a great opportunity for other media to outfox FauxNewz.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But writers should get residuals; if the economy melts down on a huge scale, the whole topic of ‘economic justice’ is simply going to be come more resonant.  Can’t happen too soon, IMHO.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1094087"><em>Johnnywheaker @ 119</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>readerOfTeaLeaves @ 69</p>
<p>Regarding your speculation re motives</p>
<blockquote><p>I assume that part of this brouhaha reflects genuine terror among very driven, affluent interests that happen to be on the wrong demographic, technical, economic, and sociological side of the issue.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I repeat from an earlier post:</p>
<blockquote><p>can anyone comment on the possible political motivations behind the WGA strike, which conveniently takes out all late night TV but leaves O’Reilly and the rest of the Fox propaganda machine in place?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m just wondering if the aforesaid “affluent interests” also happen to be on the wrong end of the political spectrum.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Your point about O’Reilly hadn’t crossed my mind.  </p>
<p>As for O’Reilly, the lucrative demographic has moved beyond him, b/c he can’t shed light on $100/barrel oil, and he can’t shed light on banks writing down billions in subprime loans.  If I owned Netflix or online gaming systems, I’d be thrilled that O’Reilly is the only guy on teevee — it’s a great opportunity for other media to outfox FauxNewz.   </p>
<p>But writers should get residuals; if the economy melts down on a huge scale, the whole topic of ‘economic justice’ is simply going to be come more resonant.  Can’t happen too soon, IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: itwasntme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094235</link>
		<dc:creator>itwasntme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094235</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I worry too about other workers that this strike is effecting. Lots of other people we know will be/are suffering because of it. It is to be hoped that the producers will think about those people also. But they don’t appear to care about any of the people in the industry, just their own pockets.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The producers enjoy the fact that they make the most money and have the most “stuff”. Any meeting you take these days (pre strike) had the obligatory mention of second houses in France, or vacation island time-share ownership, or your evening with Prince Charles at the annual Prince’s Trust dinner. Really. It’s about as subtle as the biggest dog getting to hump everyone in the room.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worry too about other workers that this strike is effecting. Lots of other people we know will be/are suffering because of it. It is to be hoped that the producers will think about those people also. But they don’t appear to care about any of the people in the industry, just their own pockets.</p>
<p>The producers enjoy the fact that they make the most money and have the most “stuff”. Any meeting you take these days (pre strike) had the obligatory mention of second houses in France, or vacation island time-share ownership, or your evening with Prince Charles at the annual Prince’s Trust dinner. Really. It’s about as subtle as the biggest dog getting to hump everyone in the room.</p>
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		<title>By: dougR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094199</link>
		<dc:creator>dougR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094199</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I do think the strike has the potential to become very very ugly, and terribly destructive to all the non-writer craftspeople who depend on steady production schedules to make their mortgage payments, send their kids to college, etc. I assume the producers are counting on that. I also assume that the producers have hired the usual gang of plug-ugly union-busting consultants, because make no mistake about it, that’s exactly what’s at stake here: the legitimacy of the unions to negotiate on behalf of ANYONE. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I doubt there are enough self-hating scab writers who actually have the chops to write network-level TV, who could handle the workload…and all the showrunners are on strike in any case. But as time goes on, if we’re talking months for instance, it’s a scary proposition. I personally think the writers will win, because they HAVE to, and because they’re right. But we’ll see.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think the strike has the potential to become very very ugly, and terribly destructive to all the non-writer craftspeople who depend on steady production schedules to make their mortgage payments, send their kids to college, etc. I assume the producers are counting on that. I also assume that the producers have hired the usual gang of plug-ugly union-busting consultants, because make no mistake about it, that’s exactly what’s at stake here: the legitimacy of the unions to negotiate on behalf of ANYONE. </p>
<p>I doubt there are enough self-hating scab writers who actually have the chops to write network-level TV, who could handle the workload…and all the showrunners are on strike in any case. But as time goes on, if we’re talking months for instance, it’s a scary proposition. I personally think the writers will win, because they HAVE to, and because they’re right. But we’ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: itwasntme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094145</link>
		<dc:creator>itwasntme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094145</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree there is a lot of wonderful talent on the web, simply creative people doing their thing. But they aren’t getting paid for any of it, and you are enjoying it. That’s fine if that’s what they want to do. And some of these folks could walk into the studios and go ahead and write/create for them, no problem. But they might want to get paid if they are hired to do that. Then they come up against the problem WGA writers have. They want a fair cut. They may not feel it’s fair to get $500 a week for six months, then watch as the corporations make many millions of dollars on what they have thought up. It becomes clear that maybe they shoud make a bit more money than the $500 they thought was great in the beginning. Also, in addition to being paid fairly for thier work, they might like to have a health plan, and a pension plan. They are out of luck if they don’t belong to the Guild. And the Guild will never let them in if they do work for the studios as writers during a strike. So this strike effects wanna-bes as well as WGA writers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree there is a lot of wonderful talent on the web, simply creative people doing their thing. But they aren’t getting paid for any of it, and you are enjoying it. That’s fine if that’s what they want to do. And some of these folks could walk into the studios and go ahead and write/create for them, no problem. But they might want to get paid if they are hired to do that. Then they come up against the problem WGA writers have. They want a fair cut. They may not feel it’s fair to get $500 a week for six months, then watch as the corporations make many millions of dollars on what they have thought up. It becomes clear that maybe they shoud make a bit more money than the $500 they thought was great in the beginning. Also, in addition to being paid fairly for thier work, they might like to have a health plan, and a pension plan. They are out of luck if they don’t belong to the Guild. And the Guild will never let them in if they do work for the studios as writers during a strike. So this strike effects wanna-bes as well as WGA writers.</p>
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		<title>By: itwasntme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094127</link>
		<dc:creator>itwasntme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094127</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My understanding is that news writers are in a different union. There is a rumor that they are going to vote whether to support the WGAWandE and go out also. In theory, no member of any union should work in support of the WGA strike, in a perfect world. This strike has gotten a lot of support from SAG screen actors, because they are likewise being screwed on the internet revenues issue, and their contract comes up I believe next spring. The WGA is riding point for a lot of unions on the issue of compensation for podcasts and webcasts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The issue is pretty simple: the large corporations are making money on the work of the writers (and others) by new methods of distribution, and are refusing to share any of those profit to those who, in all other media forms of distribution, are currently getting a cut. In other words, the corporations are claiming that somehow distribution on web/pod doesn’t come under the term “distribution” as currently defined in the contracts, just because those old contracts don’t specifically say “web/podcase” in them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why we fight.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that news writers are in a different union. There is a rumor that they are going to vote whether to support the WGAWandE and go out also. In theory, no member of any union should work in support of the WGA strike, in a perfect world. This strike has gotten a lot of support from SAG screen actors, because they are likewise being screwed on the internet revenues issue, and their contract comes up I believe next spring. The WGA is riding point for a lot of unions on the issue of compensation for podcasts and webcasts.</p>
<p>The issue is pretty simple: the large corporations are making money on the work of the writers (and others) by new methods of distribution, and are refusing to share any of those profit to those who, in all other media forms of distribution, are currently getting a cut. In other words, the corporations are claiming that somehow distribution on web/pod doesn’t come under the term “distribution” as currently defined in the contracts, just because those old contracts don’t specifically say “web/podcase” in them.</p>
<p>Why we fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Kunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094120</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/13/breaking-sky-probably-not-falling/#comment-1094120</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1093964&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;cinnamonape @ 116&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; But they really couldn’t succeed by using scabs, which is the typical strike busting method.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Most scabs come not from the outside but are union members who for various reasons, mostly they need the money, cross the line. In a union where the median income is $5,000, the temptation to improve on that will be strong. Besides writers get less important. Not only do reality shows take minimal writing, movies and tv get more visual. People watch frame after frame of action with little dialogue. The bosses don’t care about content. They would broadcast test patterns if advertisers continue to buy time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Labor union members learn the hard way they do not have a monopoly on skill. The formerly highly touted American worker is replaced by Asian farmers who in two weeks learn how to make hard drives. Professional writers don’t have a monopoly on creativity. Youtube demonstrates so-called ordinary people are extremely creative.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Writers think they are different from automobile workers who circumstances have battered. I disagree. They are up against a stacked deck. The bosses, as usual, have the high cards.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1093964"><em>cinnamonape @ 116</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p> But they really couldn’t succeed by using scabs, which is the typical strike busting method.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Most scabs come not from the outside but are union members who for various reasons, mostly they need the money, cross the line. In a union where the median income is $5,000, the temptation to improve on that will be strong. Besides writers get less important. Not only do reality shows take minimal writing, movies and tv get more visual. People watch frame after frame of action with little dialogue. The bosses don’t care about content. They would broadcast test patterns if advertisers continue to buy time.</p>
<p>Labor union members learn the hard way they do not have a monopoly on skill. The formerly highly touted American worker is replaced by Asian farmers who in two weeks learn how to make hard drives. Professional writers don’t have a monopoly on creativity. Youtube demonstrates so-called ordinary people are extremely creative.</p>
<p>Writers think they are different from automobile workers who circumstances have battered. I disagree. They are up against a stacked deck. The bosses, as usual, have the high cards.</p>
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