PW!

Good evening, Ann!

PW!

I am a teacher in a public school. You may assume I support public education.

Didn’t Ron Paul attend public schools. Or am I wrong on this?

Hello everybody! How are we this fine late fall evening?

For old time’s sake, Fitz!

Unbefreakingleavable! I guess the goal is to keep the population just as uneducated as possible, to make it easier to take advantage of them and increase the gap between the obscenely wealthy and the other 99% of Americans.

An organization I’m on the board of, Friends of Mat-Su, is constantly referred to in local wingnut literature, letters to the editor, and rightwing op-eds, as “communist.” We certainly are not. I’m getting extremely pissed, and am at the edge of asking that we talk about this with attorneys. It actually helps our fundraising with some people to be misidentified and pilloried, but I’m wondering whether we can force them to stop, because their words really are defamatory.

Will read your post now, PW, am still reeling from NARAL and Al Wynn post. Jesus.

Never heard of this Dorr turkey before. He sounds like a loser and a hater. And a liar too.

…the implication that “all problems come from open enrollment” and postcards’ insinuations that “$5.5 million could be saved by throwing out 1,000 students”

Umm, where are those 1,000 students supposed to go…?

Let’s see. Howie Kurtz defends Fox right to spew misinformation, and wasn’t there a court decision saying it’s OK to lie about your opponent in politics?

I’d tell ya that Cheney bites the heads off puppies, but you already knew that, since you watch TDS.

Here

I’m shocked, just shocked that wingnuts aren’t allowed to lie. “But…but…it’s the only thing we know how to do. Boo-hoo.”

Ooh, that’s right TDS is a comedy show.

madmommy @ 7

Unbefreakingleavable! I guess the goal is to keep the population just as uneducated as possible, to make it easier to take advantage of them and increase the gap between the obscenely wealthy and the other 99% of Americans.

Apparently.

As my friend Charles says, Republicans are The People of The Lie.

CTuttle @ 11

…the implication that “all problems come from open enrollment” and postcards’ insinuations that “$5.5 million could be saved by throwing out 1,000 students”

Umm, where are those 1,000 students supposed to go…?

Why, to the Christian schools that Dorr wants to see set up in every township, replacing all public schools. (Did I mention that he’s a godbotherer sans pareil?)

Sharkbabe @ 6

For old time’s sake, Fitz!

For old time’s sake: Sharkbabe!

Hi PW, excellent connection of the dots.

Phoenix Woman @ 16

As my friend Charles says, Republicans are The People of The Lie.

It’s nearly impossible to be both correct and Right.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 4

I am a teacher in a public school. You may assume I support public education.

Didn’t Ron Paul attend public schools. Or am I wrong on this?

So did this person and we know how that turned out. Clarence I got mine to hell with you Thomas .
jo6pac

Phoenix Woman @ 17

CTuttle @ 11

…the implication that “all problems come from open enrollment” and postcards’ insinuations that “$5.5 million could be saved by throwing out 1,000 students”

Umm, where are those 1,000 students supposed to go…?

Why, to the Christian schools that Dorr wants to see set up in every township, replacing all public schools. (Did I mention that he’s a godbotherer sans pareil?)

Ahem..but, what about people who don’t want their kids to go to religious schools?

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

Heh, it’s rather tarnished these days… Did ya see the story about Dartez, on the last thread?

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

Jeezzie Crezzie! We aren’t there yet?

marymccurnin @ 24

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

Jeezzie Crezzie! We aren’t there yet?

thou shall not barf all twitness

marymccurnin @ 24

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

Jeezzie Crezzie! We aren’t there yet?

as far as I’m concerned we are

CTuttle @ 23

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

Heh, it’s rather tarnished these days… Did ya see the story about Dartez, on the last thread?

Yes I did. What an idiot. She didn’t even try to deny it, and given that Boykin and Buckwheat could sound similar over the phone she might have had some plausability. The NAACP are going to have her ass for breakfast and rightfully so.

GordonM upthread is correct-A few years ago, there was a case in Tampa, where two reporters were fired for refusing to suppress a story about contaminated milk. They sued under whistleblower statutes, won, and then were reversed on appeal as the judge found no legal requirement that the news be true.
Wiki on the case here.

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

We ARE at that tipping point where I live in Alaska. Besides the political corruption trials, the ongoing special session of the legislature that is determining a new, higher levy on big oil for extracting our resources, is showing continuing corruption patterns by some legislators that verge on criminal. But these crooks seem to think they know how to skirt that edge and keep their seats. I think they’re in for some incredibly rude 2008 wake-up calls. And this is one of the reddest areas of the USA.

RonD @ 28

GordonM upthread is correct-A few years ago, there was a case in Tampa, where two reporters were fired for refusing to suppress a story about contaminated milk. They sued under whistleblower statutes, won, and then were reversed on appeal as the judge found no legal requirement that the news be true.
Wiki on the case here.

I had forgotten that travesty, thank you.

Phoenix Woman @ 5

Hello everybody! How are we this fine late fall evening?

Hi, Phoenix Woman. I’m glad someone is bringing up Ron Paul’s real agenda. He’s a pretty extreme type when you come down to it. Most people want and expect public education, and we all know that social security is the third rail of American politics. Most people want roads and health care and any number of other benefits of the social contract with the state.

Many people, though, find it hard to admit. They somehow think there’s a stigma attached to accepting certain things as benefits, parts of the social contract, like unemployment compensation. Apparently we’re all supposed to only want everything to be available through free market competition. They don’t account for greed or corruption in the private sector. Those characteristics only exist in the public sector! It’s a delicate balancing act in a Democracy, at best.

marymccurnin @ 24

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

Jeezzie Crezzie! We aren’t there yet?

I should have been more specific and said that the phrase will have that conotation to anyone with a pulse. More progressive minded folks have of course seen this for some time.

thou shall not barf all twitness

when I see a comment like that dangling down from the top of my screen after a refresh, I don’t even have to scroll back up to see who wrote it. I know – the bard of fdl…

RonD @ 28

GordonM upthread is correct-A few years ago, there was a case in Tampa, where two reporters were fired for refusing to suppress a story about contaminated milk. They sued under whistleblower statutes, won, and then were reversed on appeal as the judge found no legal requirement that the news be true.
Wiki on the case here.

gah, figures it was fox :/

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

You never see people from the old mainline churches (aside from a few Catholic bishops) pulling this sort of crap. But it’s endemic to the church movement that sprung up out of the white Protestant evangelical churches of the South.

There’s a reason that there’s a Southern Baptist Convention: It’s because they split from the rest of the church in the 1840s rather than go along with the main church’s anti-slavery stance. Similar schisms happened with the Southern versions of the Episcopal and other churches, but they all rejoined the main churches after the Civil War. The SBC didn’t.

And it’s these people and their spiritual disciples that have become the de facto face of religious morality in America today, because they love the cameras and the microphones and they wedded themselves to the GOP arm of the GOP/Media Complex ages ago as part of “the Southern Strategy”.

Ed*ard Teller @ 29

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

We ARE at that tipping point where I live in Alaska. Besides the political corruption trials, the ongoing special session of the legislature that is determining a new, higher levy on big oil for extracting our resources, is showing continuing corruption patterns by some legislators that verge on criminal. But these crooks seem to think they know how to skirt that edge and keep their seats. I think they’re in for some incredibly rude 2008 wake-up calls. And this is one of the reddest areas of the USA.

Keep holding their feet to the fire ET, and all other progressive Alaskans!

Speaking of Ron Paul, if anybody missed Dave Neiwert’s take on his Congressional record, it’s extremely sobering.

Phoenix Woman @ 35

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

You never see people from the old mainline churches (aside from a few Catholic bishops) pulling this sort of crap. But it’s endemic to the church movement that sprung up out of the white Protestant evangelical churches of the South.

There’s a reason that there’s a Southern Baptist Convention: It’s because they split from the rest of the church in the 1840s rather than go along with the main church’s anti-slavery stance. Similar schisms happened with the Southern versions of the Episcopal and other churches, but they all rejoined the main churches after the Civil War. The SBC didn’t.

And it’s these people and their spiritual disciples that have become the de facto face of religious morality in America today, because they love the cameras and the microphones and they wedded themselves to the GOP arm of the GOP/Media Complex ages ago as part of “the Southern Strategy”.

It was also a lot of the “christian” private schools that were founded in the South during the 60s to avoid integration that have driven issues like the “school vouchers.”

The priest who supports Bush’s GWOT said that there isn’t anyone more dour and miserable than an atheist. That statement is a both a diversion and an ad hominem attack. Does not the atheist have a right to his own beliefs? Can he not pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of his own misery without interference?

BTW, ET, a little later when it’s cool to go OT, I’d like to hear how your talk-radio guest-host gig went today.

Elliott @ 30

RonD @ 28

GordonM upthread is correct-A few years ago, there was a case in Tampa, where two reporters were fired for refusing to suppress a story about contaminated milk. They sued under whistleblower statutes, won, and then were reversed on appeal as the judge found no legal requirement that the news be true.
Wiki on the case here.

I had forgotten that travesty, thank you.

Nothing like having large amounts of corporate money swirling around a case to distort and tear apart justice the way black holes tear apart anything that comes near them.

Ed*ard Teller @ 29

madmommy @ 22

I’m willing to bet this Dorr character is front and center at his church, and touts his “christianity and family values” at every opprotunity. Too bad he didn’t look close enough at that commandment-the one that says do nto bear false witness.

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

We ARE at that tipping point where I live in Alaska. Besides the political corruption trials, the ongoing special session of the legislature that is determining a new, higher levy on big oil for extracting our resources, is showing continuing corruption patterns by some legislators that verge on criminal. But these crooks seem to think they know how to skirt that edge and keep their seats. I think they’re in for some incredibly rude 2008 wake-up calls. And this is one of the reddest areas of the USA.

Go get ‘em, Ed*ard! Looking forward to seeing decent human beings occupying your highest offices soon.

Phoenix Woman @ 35

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

You never see people from the old mainline churches (aside from a few Catholic bishops) pulling this sort of crap. But it’s endemic to the church movement that sprung up out of the white Protestant evangelical churches of the South.

There’s a reason that there’s a Southern Baptist Convention: It’s because they split from the rest of the church in the 1840s rather than go along with the main church’s anti-slavery stance. Similar schisms happened with the Southern versions of the Episcopal and other churches, but they all rejoined the main churches after the Civil War. The SBC didn’t.

And it’s these people and their spiritual disciples that have become the de facto face of religious morality in America today, because they love the cameras and the microphones and they wedded themselves to the GOP arm of the GOP/Media Complex ages ago as part of “the Southern Strategy”.

The interesting thing to me is these states that are so deeply involved in the evangelical movement in the south are also the states that consistently rank dead last in areas like education, health care, poverty and infant mortality. A more cynical person might wonder why these evangelicals are expending so much effort to be a player on the political stage when there is more than enough of the Lord’s work (helping the less fortunate) right in their own back yard. No glory in that, but then they claim that Earthly glory is not what they are about.

Ot: Citrix Online (gotomypc.com) ended its advertising relationship with the Michael Savage program. Garoweonline
Just before the lucrative war on christmas season, too!

Ed*ard Teller @ 33

thou shall not barf all twitness

when I see a comment like that dangling down from the top of my screen after a refresh, I don’t even have to scroll back up to see who wrote it. I know – the bard of fdl…

some might say there’s a “sta” missing from the middle of that word… :~)

GordonM @ 37

Speaking of Ron Paul, if anybody missed Dave Neiwert’s take on his Congressional record, it’s extremely sobering.

A lot of his rhetoric is comparable to Delay’s

Impeach. Please Impeach.

http://onlinejournal.com/artma…..2603.shtml

Phoenix Woman @ 42

Go get ‘em, Ed*ard! Looking forward to seeing decent human beings occupying your highest offices soon.

No pressure, of course, ET.

OT, but this site has some very interesting about your Zipcode. Check out “The Skinny on your Zipcode“.

Lot’s of US Census data and charts comparing you and your neighboring zipcodes.

I think it’s exhilarating and challenging to be a radical progressive operating in a red state. And you can assume Oklahoma is red.

It was also a lot of the “christian” private schools that were founded in the South during the 60s to avoid integration that have driven issues like the “school vouchers.”

This is absolutely true. I had occasion to attend one of these schools, and there was a pervasive conservative political agenda: vouchers. “Christian Nation” rhetoric. Prayer in schools and everywhere else. anti-ERA. anti-abortion. Pro-war. anti-New Deal. Pro-death penalty. A totally contemporary program of Tom Delay and Newt Gingrich-style conservatism.
God it was nice to get out of there.

madmommy @ 43

Phoenix Woman @ 35

You never see people from the old mainline churches (aside from a few Catholic bishops) pulling this sort of crap. But it’s endemic to the church movement that sprung up out of the white Protestant evangelical churches of the South.

There’s a reason that there’s a Southern Baptist Convention: It’s because they split from the rest of the church in the 1840s rather than go along with the main church’s anti-slavery stance. Similar schisms happened with the Southern versions of the Episcopal and other churches, but they all rejoined the main churches after the Civil War. The SBC didn’t.

And it’s these people and their spiritual disciples that have become the de facto face of religious morality in America today, because they love the cameras and the microphones and they wedded themselves to the GOP arm of the GOP/Media Complex ages ago as part of “the Southern Strategy”.

The interesting thing to me is these states that are so deeply involved in the evangelical movement in the south are also the states that consistently rank dead last in areas like education, health care, poverty and infant mortality. A more cynical person might wonder why these evangelicals are expending so much effort to be a player on the political stage when there is more than enough of the Lord’s work (helping the less fortunate) right in their own back yard. No glory in that, but then they claim that Earthly glory is not what they are about.

Its racism – thinly veiled. Katrina begat the N’awlins exodus, then the whites voted for Republicans (dog whistle politics) to keep the black people from coming back. Evangelicals endeavor to suck the government teat themselves through faith-based initiatives and church school funding through voucher programs.

Mad Dogs @ 50

OT, but this site has some very interesting about your Zipcode. Check out “The Skinny on your Zipcode“.

Lot’s of US Census data and charts comparing you and your neighboring zipcodes.

So odd, I got this site sent to me by a friend in a group I’m in. Evidently she sent it to everyone in the group, because a few minutes later there was a message from one of the memmbers with the comment “cool, my neighborhood is full of educated white people”. I’m afraid she’s bringing down the average for the neighborhood because she’s dumb as a post and proud of it.

RonD @ 52

This is absolutely true. I had occasion to attend one of these schools, and there was a pervasive conservative political agenda: vouchers. “Christian Nation” rhetoric. Prayer in schools and everywhere else. anti-ERA. anti-abortion. Pro-war. anti-New Deal. Pro-death penalty. A totally contemporary program of Tom Delay and Newt Gingrich-style conservatism.
God it was nice to get out of there.

You do realize that feminism killed the neanderthals, don’t you?

hackworth @ 39

The priest who supports Bush’s GWOT said that there isn’t anyone more dour and miserable than an atheist. That statement is a both a diversion and an ad hominem attack. Does not the atheist have a right to his own beliefs? Can he not pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of his own misery without interference?

I am quite happy.

Phoenix Woman @ 35

I wonder when the tiping point will come; when the phrase “family values” becomes a synonym for lying, thieving, warmongering racists.

You never see people from the old mainline churches (aside from a few Catholic bishops) pulling this sort of crap. But it’s endemic to the church movement that sprung up out of the white Protestant evangelical churches of the South.

There’s a reason that there’s a Southern Baptist Convention: It’s because they split from the rest of the church in the 1840s rather than go along with the main church’s anti-slavery stance. Similar schisms happened with the Southern versions of the Episcopal and other churches, but they all rejoined the main churches after the Civil War. The SBC didn’t.

And it’s these people and their spiritual disciples that have become the de facto face of religious morality in America today, because they love the cameras and the microphones and they wedded themselves to the GOP arm of the GOP/Media Complex ages ago as part of “the Southern Strategy”.

Thanks for that bonk on the forehead. I never put it together before, but the Southern Baptists in my town are the racists. They’re trying to be careful, but they can’t help but give themselves away as racist. (Buying retirement property in the racist areas of the deep south, sending their kids to the racist colleges in Mississippi, etc.)

LS @ 47

Impeach. Please Impeach.

http://onlinejournal.com/artma…..2603.shtml

The Speaker/decider as we know, has decided against impeachment.

RonD @ 52

It was also a lot of the “christian” private schools that were founded in the South during the 60s to avoid integration that have driven issues like the “school vouchers.”

This is absolutely true. I had occasion to attend one of these schools, and there was a pervasive conservative political agenda: vouchers. “Christian Nation” rhetoric. Prayer in schools and everywhere else. anti-ERA. anti-abortion. Pro-war. anti-New Deal. Pro-death penalty. A totally contemporary program of Tom Delay and Newt Gingrich-style conservatism.
God it was nice to get out of there.

Ugh! Me too, high school and a year of college. I’m proud to say I broke very rule they had at least once ;0)

LS @ 47

Impeach. Please Impeach.

http://onlinejournal.com/artma…..2603.shtml

George W. Bush is a nut.

madmommy @ 53

Mad Dogs @ 50

OT, but this site has some very interesting about your Zipcode. Check out “The Skinny on your Zipcode“.

Lot’s of US Census data and charts comparing you and your neighboring zipcodes.

So odd, I got this site sent to me by a friend in a group I’m in. Evidently she sent it to everyone in the group, because a few minutes later there was a message from one of the memmbers with the comment “cool, my neighborhood is full of educated white people”. I’m afraid she’s bringing down the average for the neighborhood because she’s dumb as a post and proud of it.

LOL! Our Preznitwit knows all about that education and “dumb as a post” stuff.

Which reminds me, I may have to re-post that great monograph about Junya and The Post Turtle.

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

smapdi @ 44

Ot: Citrix Online (gotomypc.com) ended its advertising relationship with the Michael Savage program. Garoweonline
Just before the lucrative war on christmas season, too!

That is great news. Show what the power of contacting the advertiser can do.

Oh, and OT to ET

I will reprise, with a variation, a Punaise comment from an earlier thread-

ET- we knew you before you were a radio virgin. ;)

I’ve been “investigatin’”….

Indira Singh, Sibel Edmunds, Richard Grove, Chertoff, Vulgar Betrayal, Ptech…and, lo and behold… now….:

http://www.canada.com/national…..58&k=0

There is a common thread…and it ain’t purdy….

Valley Girl @ 61

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

Gawd, and an educator as well! I wonder if he thinks he should negotiate over price with the fire department as his house burns down.

Valley Girl @ 62

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

Perhaps he would prefer to lecture to a small handful of twits who would have their daddies throw him out on his ass if he gave them less than an A?

Add to my #65, Jesslyn Radack:

http://www.cradl.info/

There is a common thread…we need to pull it, to quote Larry Silverstein…no pun intended…/s

Valley Girl @ 62

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

Getting a decent education is pretty much an elite thing anymore. Look what it costs just to get a four year degree these days. This fact I believe is not lost on the GOP.

tw3k @ 69

Valley Girl @ 62

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

You must be a lot younger than I am, because the home schooling issue only came to my attention within the last few years.

But, like you, it took me a while to catch on to the basic intent of the home schooling issue.

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 69

Getting a decent education is pretty much an elite thing anymore. Look what it costs just to get a four year degree these days. This fact I believe is not lost on the GOP.

When my girls get out of grad school they will owe a combined $200,000. When my first husband got out of med school (1974) we owed $3000.00 and we borrowed all of his tuition.

tw3k @ 68

Valley Girl @ 62

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see the evangelical homeschool group soon begin squawking about having to pay taxes for public schools that their kids don’t attend. Leaving out the obvious that a well educated population benefits everyone, many homeschool parents take advantage of local schools for extra-curricular activities, especially sports.

The only thing we do today as teachers in public schools is to try and prepare the kids to take tests.

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

It’s an excellent program./s
It is teaching a whole generation of kids to regurgitate information with no context or critical thought involved.

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

And it was not funded. Perfect. Create crappy legislation and then don’t fund it. Then punish the school districts for noncompliance. There is an underlying meanness here.

marymccurnin @ 72

Oklahoma kiddo @ 69

Getting a decent education is pretty much an elite thing anymore. Look what it costs just to get a four year degree these days. This fact I believe is not lost on the GOP.

When my girls get out of grad school they will owe a combined $200,000. When my first husband got out of med school (1974) we owed $3000.00 and we borrowed all of his tuition.

When I went to ARJC and Sac City all I paid for was books. My last semester at Chico State cost me $78.00 in fees.

marymccurnin @ 76

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

And it was not funded. Perfect. Create crappy legislation and then don’t fund it. Then punish the school districts for noncompliance. There is an underlying meanness here.

Yes. Its name is Babs.

Valley Girl @ 72

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

It’s worse than that. It’s grading on a curve from the bottom – X number will fail. Whether it’s because the kids don’t do well enough, or the teachers don’t do well enough (yes, they’re “tested” too). Actually, that’s “improve” enough – so you get stick to those a**holes who are good, ’cause they don’t have enough room to improve. To cap it all, Bush doesn’t bother to fund it.

(And Susan Collins voted against a tax break for woefully undercompensated teachers who are now routinely buying supplies for their kids to use in class.)

Oklahoma kiddo @ 77

marymccurnin @ 72

When my girls get out of grad school they will owe a combined $200,000. When my first husband got out of med school (1974) we owed $3000.00 and we borrowed all of his tuition.

When I went to ARJC and Sac City all I paid for was books. My last semester at Chico State cost me $78.00 in fees.

Did you know that Sac is the second most violent city in Cal?

I hate that the oh so righteous conservatives blame the teachers. Uppity teachers. Opening their mouths and announcing to an entire class that it is the students’ job to think. Critically.

madmommy @ 65

Valley Girl @ 61

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

Gawd, and an educator as well! I wonder if he thinks he should negotiate over price with the fire department as his house burns down.

Does he not ever use services prpvided by people trained in the public education system – you know like doctors, plumbers, construction workers. Does he not expect people providing services or making products to be competent?

I just do not get this kind of thinking.

Valley Girl @ 71

tw3k @ 69

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

You must be a lot younger than I am, because the home schooling issue only came to my attention within the last few years.

But, like you, it took me a while to catch on to the basic intent of the home schooling issue.

I dunno, I’m 39. The major reasons for homeschooling that knew of before I heard of the christian movement seemed oriented towards the general bias of a government curriculum.

A&E Classroom and History Channel Classroom are some good examples of bias in education.

marymccurnin @ 80

Oklahoma kiddo @ 77

When I went to ARJC and Sac City all I paid for was books. My last semester at Chico State cost me $78.00 in fees.

Did you know that Sac is the second most violent city in Cal?

Good gawd. I didn’t know that.

I would just like to say that we should all take a moment to reflect on which country we love. I believe that the country I love corresponds to the world built for me by survivors of the great depression and WWII.

I think it hard to understand the opportunities I have enjoyed without being thankful for the New Deal, the GI Bill, the Public Schools and Social Security. These are just a few of the programs that I associate with the compassionate spirit of the country I grew up in.

Now I hear complaining all around me, half of the people I talk with think that the compassion shown in the last century was all a mistake. They say that we cannot afford the expense of all this soft thinking any longer. I think the people who shaped our country over the last hundred years were not dull witted, they didn’t give away our past, they created a future we have shared so far, and we should be thankful not angry.

Are we really standing here in the 21st century, richer and better educated than we have ever been, arguing over whether we can afford to continue the programs to protect our poor and educate the masses?

I think our country is great because of the way we have shared with each other, not in spite of it. The people whose shoulders we are standing on had far less to share and did a better job of it than we are doing now.

Those in power now are making believe that they are saving SS, they are really eliminating it, they say they will “leave no child behind”, they will gladly leave most behind. It’s a shame; I don’t think these guys love the same country I grew up in.

I’m hoping the lawsuit you have described is a last-gasp effort by a movement doomed to oblivion by the collective weight of it’s obvious failures.

These loosers have had over thirty years of political control, they’ve conducted a vast experimental destruction of the mixed economy that produced the prosperity our country is famous for. The experiment’s results are now clear, they were wrong, what they tried to sell as creative destruction turned out to be only destruction.

Will we now be ordered by the courts to listen to more of their lies, the ones from the bottom of the barrel?

Does anyone believe that their promised golden age would suddenly bloom save for the fact that their freedom of speach has been illegally curtailed?

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

NCLB states that by 2013 all students will be proficient. Language or special education requirements be damned. If schools don’t meet the benchmarks along the way, they are turned over to the state to correct the deficiencies. Public schools that don’t meet the marks have to pay for kids to be bussed to another public school, or pay for the private school if there is no nearby schools meeting the benchmark. It is a design to destroy public schools altogether.

Fern @ 82

madmommy @ 65

Gawd, and an educator as well! I wonder if he thinks he should negotiate over price with the fire department as his house burns down.

Does he not ever use services prpvided by people trained in the public education system – you know like doctors, plumbers, construction workers. Does he not expect people providing services or making products to be competent?

I just do not get this kind of thinking.

All I can figure is people who think this way believe they are completely self sufficient and do not need the assistance of anyone, any time, anywhere. Usually their thinking only changes when the cruel hand of fate reaches out and slaps them upside the head. Sometimes, even that doesn’t work.

Private schools produced George W. Bush and many other politicians.

Valley Girl @ 70

tw3k @ 69

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

You must be a lot younger than I am, because the home schooling issue only came to my attention within the last few years.

But, like you, it took me a while to catch on to the basic intent of the home schooling issue.

This is interesting – my experience with home-schoolers is that they have been of the flaming leftie variety.

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

The infamous “teach to the test” mandate. Teach your pupils only the stuff that will get them to pass the test and screw everything else.

This is why Utah opted out of it.

madmommy @ 74

tw3k @ 68

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see the evangelical homeschool group soon begin squawking about having to pay taxes for public schools that their kids don’t attend. Leaving out the obvious that a well educated population benefits everyone, many homeschool parents take advantage of local schools for extra-curricular activities, especially sports.

I thought that was the point of vouches tho. Like transfer your portion of public school tax to the private or homeschool.

I don’t have a child in the race so I’ve not really paid attention to the issue.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 78

When I went to ARJC and Sac City all I paid for was books. My last semester at Chico State cost me $78.00 in fees.

Doesn’t Chico State always place in the top 3 party schools?

(Senior year, I paid $250 / quarter at Cal.)

If you want to know what goes on in our public schools, volunteer a couple of days a month in the classroom.

madmommy @ 73

tw3k @ 68

I was raised thinking that home schooling was a good alternative to public schooling in that the education could be more creative and tuned to the child’s strengths.

I had not realized that home schooling was a christian-right wedge issue to destroy public schools and indoctrinate children into christianity.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see the evangelical homeschool group soon begin squawking about having to pay taxes for public schools that their kids don’t attend. Leaving out the obvious that a well educated population benefits everyone, many homeschool parents take advantage of local schools for extra-curricular activities, especially sports.

And special education services.

Valley Girl @ 61

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

It seems pretty widespread in my area.
One nurse I worked with said she paid for private school for her kids, so she shouldn’t “have to pay for your kids’ schools, too.”
I have no idea how to reach people like that. Did they not notice their parents and grandparents paid for public schools? Does the line stop with them?

Loo Hoo. @ 87

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

NCLB states that by 2013 all students will be proficient. Language or special education requirements be damned. If schools don’t meet the benchmarks along the way, they are turned over to the state to correct the deficiencies. Public schools that don’t meet the marks have to pay for kids to be bussed to another public school, or pay for the private school if there is no nearby schools meeting the benchmark. It is a design to destroy public schools altogether.

Loo Hoo, I was hoping you would comment on this.

What is this about “Public schools that don’t meet the marks have to pay for kids to be bussed to another public school, or pay for the private school if there is no nearby schools meeting the benchmark.”?

This sounds even more awful than I had imagined. Do you have any links? (Yes, I know you are speaking from well-informed personal experience.) But maybe a few links will help PW hit this hard in a post to come.

GordonM @ 92

Oklahoma kiddo @ 78

When I went to ARJC and Sac City all I paid for was books. My last semester at Chico State cost me $78.00 in fees.

Doesn’t Chico State always place in the top 3 party schools?

(Senior year, I paid $250 / quarter at Cal.)

I believe it made Playboy zine as a party school years ago. Of course if you enroll in the electrical engineering or math departments, if you’re like me, no genius, there was no time to party.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 93

If you want to know what goes on in our public schools, volunteer a couple of days a month in the classroom.

I’ve got Art Moms tomorrow with the big kid’s class. We will be looking at the art of Jasper Johns, and doing an art project with the kids. I enjoy it, and am at the school 5-6 times a month for one thing or another.

Sadly, more and more parents need both working just to make ends meet, and that makes getting into the schools regualrly to see how and what your kids are learning difficult.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 88

Private schools produced George W. Bush and many other politicians.

A-yep. You probably already know about the Sandia Labs study, right, OKK? The one Bush the Elder requested in 1988 and then suppressed because he didn’t like the results? (It only saw the light of day after Bill Clinton took office.)

Bush Sr. wanted a study to say, once and for all, that private schools beat public school decisively at everything. But the Sandia study said that this just wasn’t the case. (For one thing, science generally was better taught as well if not better in public schools, as the private ones tended to be parochial schools that didn’t like recent (as in “over the past three hundred years”) developments in biology.)

Of course, those schools where public education has been most under attack — such as the South — are the worst off, whereas in the Northeast and Upper Midwest it’s much healthier.

Loo Hoo. @ 87

Valley Girl @ 71

Of course, Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” mandate has really been a horrible thing for public schools. Teachers hate it, as far as I can tell. No room for creativity or individual growth. etc. etc.

NCLB states that by 2013 all students will be proficient. Language or special education requirements be damned. If schools don’t meet the benchmarks along the way, they are turned over to the state to correct the deficiencies. Public schools that don’t meet the marks have to pay for kids to be bussed to another public school, or pay for the private school if there is no nearby schools meeting the benchmark. It is a design to destroy public schools altogether.

I thought I caught on tweenty that Obama supports competitive compensation for teachers. Does that mean, if I heard correctly, that Obama supports NCLB?

Fern @ 90

Valley Girl @ 70

You must be a lot younger than I am, because the home schooling issue only came to my attention within the last few years.

But, like you, it took me a while to catch on to the basic intent of the home schooling issue.

This is interesting – my experience with home-schoolers is that they have been of the flaming leftie variety.

well that one way to put it :)

Seems to be a concern for the left and right ends of the spectrum.

GordonM @ 93

Oklahoma kiddo @ 78

When I went to ARJC and Sac City all I paid for was books. My last semester at Chico State cost me $78.00 in fees.

Doesn’t Chico State always place in the top 3 party schools?

(Senior year, I paid $250 / quarter at Cal.)

Def OT, except I am always interested in Mainers. GordonM- are you a true Mainer? If so, what were you doing going to Cal?

competitive compensation for teachers is not the same thing as NCLB, but it is related in that they use the test scores to determine how much one should be paid…

typically teachers are paid based on education level, master’s degree, etc.

sorry.. what does levy/anti-levy mean?

oh.. on shrub and emails… he’s not allow to burn ‘em anymore
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITI…..index.html

marymccurnin @ 80

Did you know that Sac is the second most violent city in Cal?

darn rethug assemblymen… always rioting and pillaging

Blub @ 104

sorry.. what does levy/anti-levy mean?

oh.. on shrub and emails… he’s not allow to burn ‘em anymore
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITI…..index.html

Yeah, I bet he’s losing sleep over that ruling. He’s the preznit, dammit, if he does it it’s not illegal!

OldCoastie @ 104

competitive compensation for teachers is not the same thing as NCLB, but it is related in that they use the test scores to determine how much one should be paid…

typically teachers are paid based on education level, master’s degree, etc.

Thanks, I wasn’t sure of the connection there.

Margot @ 95

Valley Girl @ 61

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

It seems pretty widespread in my area.
One nurse I worked with said she paid for private school for her kids, so she shouldn’t “have to pay for your kids’ schools, too.”
I have no idea how to reach people like that. Did they not notice their parents and grandparents paid for public schools? Does the line stop with them?

Blind. These people are blind. How many of these people who are so superior now got their start in public schools and grew up in houses financed by the gi bill. Do they think that they are so special that The All Powerful Odd George won’t cut them off at the knees like he did to the people in NOLA or the returning soldiers. They think that if they follow the authoritarian rules they will be safe. Blind fools. Twits, too.

The problem is that in each class you have students who don’t learn at the same pace. There are some very bright kids who just learn things slower.

Valley Girl @ 103

Def OT, except I am always interested in Mainers. GordonM- are you a true Mainer? If so, what were you doing going to Cal?

No, wasn’t born here. Born in Boston. Childhood summers here, and always wanted to move here. But ended up spending 23 years in the Bay Area (and time in NJ and DC). Moved here in 96. There are a few who consider me “from away”, but because I cut my own wood and do most of my own repairs etc., there aren’t many.

(In SF, I worked with a woman born on Vinalhaven, but she wasn’t looking back.)

Blub @ 105

marymccurnin @ 80

Did you know that Sac is the second most violent city in Cal?

darn rethug assemblymen… always rioting and pillaging

Don’t forget sucking up!

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

The problem is that in each class you have students who don’t learn at the same pace. There are some very bright kids who just learn things slower.

That is cause they aren’t skimming the surface.

The Federal government under the Republicans have intentionally created a very provocative situation with NCLB.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 109

The problem is that in each class you have students who don’t learn at the same pace. There are some very bright kids who just learn things slower.

and some who are less skillful in taking tests.

Valley Girl @ 61

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

I’m more shocked that he’s an educator. I don’t have children, but feel I benefit from good public education. If I couldn’t summon up any other reasons, selfishness alone would make me consider that I don’t want to be cared for by ignoramuses in my dotage.

There’s also that thing about knowing you’ve left the world a better place than you found it.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 113

The Federal government under the Republicans have intentionally created a very provocative situation with NCLB.

“The GOP-getting it wrong for over 30 years!”

GordonM @ 111

Valley Girl @ 103

Def OT, except I am always interested in Mainers. GordonM- are you a true Mainer? If so, what were you doing going to Cal?

No, wasn’t born here. Born in Boston. Childhood summers here, and always wanted to move here. But ended up spending 23 years in the Bay Area (and time in NJ and DC). Moved here in 96. There are a few who consider me “from away”, but because I cut my own wood and do most of my own repairs etc., there aren’t many.

(In SF, I worked with a woman born on Vinalhaven, but she wasn’t looking back.)

GordonM- thanks for the info. We have to figure out how to converse via email! I am, as you know, fascinated by the Maine experience. As you know of course, I am def. From Away. But, got my 2nd degree at UCSC. Kinda sorta part of the Bay Area.

Valley Girl, it’s all legalese like this:

(2) SPECIAL RULE- Notwithstanding paragraph (1)(D), the number of children attending private elementary schools and secondary schools who are to receive services, and the assistance such children are to receive under this part, shall be determined without regard to whether the public school attendance area in which such children reside is assisted under subparagraph (A).

There’s so much to it. Schools need to make Adequate Yearly Progress on each subset of students. If Spanish speaker’s scores go up, and English speaker’s scores go down, no dice.

It’s a big freaking mess, designed to destroy public education. The bell shaped curve does not exist in NCLB.

science generally was better taught as well if not better in public schools, as the private ones tended to be parochial schools that didn’t like recent (as in “over the past three hundred years”) developments in biology.

True story….At the fundy SBap school to which I was sentenced, I once had a supposed Biology teacher stand up the first day of the semester and say: “Don’t worry about passing this class. I’m not going to hold you responsible for information I don’t believe-the State says we have to meet and teach this class, so I will…but you all will pass my class, because”-holding up biology textbook-”none of this is true.”

True story.

Hey, PW and all, check this out at the NYT:

Suggestion for Mukasey’s first road trip re what went wrong at DOJ. They’re lookin’ at you, Rachel….

Cujo359 @ 116

Valley Girl @ 61

I was shocked by what one of my colleagues (also Univ. Prof.) said to me about funding for public education. His premise was that since he didn’t have kids, why should his taxes go to support local public schools.

What a selfish and short-sighted view from someone who professes to be a Dem!

This may have been a singular opinion, but I do wonder if it is widespread.

I don’t have kids either, but omigod!

I’m more shocked that he’s an educator. I don’t have children, but feel I benefit from good public education. If I couldn’t summon up any other reasons, selfishness alone would make me consider that I don’t want to be cared for by ignoramuses in my dotage.

There’s also that thing about knowing you’ve left the world a better place than you found it.

Yes! And this is not exactly a good reply to your comment, but I went to private schools until junior high school. I initially was sent to private school, bec. it was illegal (Los Angeles Public School District) for me to go to public school at my young age, when it was clear that I really wanted to go to school.

Even when entered public school- 7th grade at age ten, I was still “illegal”.

But, wow! I loved it! Jr High Class of 1000 students. So many new friends! So much to learn about, in the people sense.

Prairie Sunshine @ 120

Suggestion for Mukasey’s first road trip re what went wrong at DOJ. They’re lookin’ at you, Rachel….

Here’s hoping he gets a low number…

;>)

I’ve been out of touch for awhile so maybe there was a post on this already, but can anyone comment on the possible political motivations behind the WGA strike, which conveniently takes out all late night TV but leaves O’Reilly and the rest of the Fox propaganda machine in place? It’s my understanding that the studios are basically ready to let this go on for months…

Btw, my undergraduate degree probably cost me less than 2k (Cal Poly ‘80), books and all. We’re paying something like 15k annually to get a kid through Berkeley. And that’s a deal. Forget grad school. If we’d stayed in Switzerland it would have been free. Ugh.

RonD @ 119

science generally was better taught as well if not better in public schools, as the private ones tended to be parochial schools that didn’t like recent (as in “over the past three hundred years”) developments in biology.

True story….At the fundy SBap school to which I was sentenced, I once had a supposed Biology teacher stand up the first day of the semester and say: “Don’t worry about passing this class. I’m not going to hold you responsible for information I don’t believe-the State says we have to meet and teach this class, so I will…but you all will pass my class, because”-holding up biology textbook-”none of this is true.”

True story.

I can well believe it.

Lemme guess: You come from one of those ‘right to work’ states that can’t get industries (like car companies) to relocate there because the cost of re-educating their prospective employees is too friggin’ high?

Johnnywheaker @ 123

I’ve been out of touch for awhile so maybe there was a post on this already, but can anyone comment on the possible political motivations behind the WGA strike, which conveniently takes out all late night TV but leaves O’Reilly and the rest of the Fox propaganda machine in place? It’s my understanding that the studios are basically ready to let this go on for months…

Btw, my undergraduate degree probably cost me less than 2k (Cal Poly ‘80), books and all. We’re paying something like 15k annually to get a kid through Berkeley. And that’s a deal. Forget grad school. If we’d stayed in Switzerland it would have been free. Ugh.

Is it too late to go back?

Johnnywheaker @ 123

I’ve been out of touch for awhile so maybe there was a post on this already, but can anyone comment on the possible political motivations behind the WGA strike, which conveniently takes out all late night TV but leaves O’Reilly and the rest of the Fox propaganda machine in place? It’s my understanding that the studios are basically ready to let this go on for months…

Btw, my undergraduate degree probably cost me less than 2k (Cal Poly ‘80), books and all. We’re paying something like 15k annually to get a kid through Berkeley. And that’s a deal. Forget grad school. If we’d stayed in Switzerland it would have been free. Ugh.

news writers are not subject to the strike – they are exempt. tds and colbert are considered to be comedy shows, as are most other late night shows.

oraly and ilk are considered news (spitting)

sorry.. still hung up on the terminology in the post.. I guess it’s a Cali thing. Is a “levy” a bond issue? A property tax increase? A sales tax increase? A special assessment district? Are “anti-levy” people against the tax or against funding schools?

PW, I come from central Florida, the Land of the Hanging Chad. All those reasons you mentioned, plus land values.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 113

The Federal government under the Republicans have intentionally created a very provocative situation with NCLB.

Oh, yes indeed. They WANT public schools to fail, for the same reason that they want public everything else to fail: So their business buddies can move in and made bucks off of it.

Suzanne @ 126

oraly and ilk are considered news (spitting)

But they are, S. – For the thinking impaired.

;>)

RonD @ 119

science generally was better taught as well if not better in public schools, as the private ones tended to be parochial schools that didn’t like recent (as in “over the past three hundred years”) developments in biology.

True story….At the fundy SBap school to which I was sentenced, I once had a supposed Biology teacher stand up the first day of the semester and say: “Don’t worry about passing this class. I’m not going to hold you responsible for information I don’t believe-the State says we have to meet and teach this class, so I will…but you all will pass my class, because”-holding up biology textbook-”none of this is true.”

True story.

Good grief. And don’t get me started on Charter Schools.

Loo Hoo. @ 131

RonD @ 119

True story….At the fundy SBap school to which I was sentenced, I once had a supposed Biology teacher stand up the first day of the semester and say: “Don’t worry about passing this class. I’m not going to hold you responsible for information I don’t believe-the State says we have to meet and teach this class, so I will…but you all will pass my class, because”-holding up biology textbook-”none of this is true.”

True story.

Good grief. And don’t get me started on Charter Schools.

Orleans Parish really does not have a public school system since Katrina. It is all charter schools now, or private catholic or non-affilated schools.

Hey folks — TRex will be along with Late Nite in just a couple of minute! Hang in there until then. (Or go to bed if you must. See if I care…sniffle sob)

PW, never in my extensive research have I heard of a political party whose fundamental goal is to govern badly, and use that failure to justify dismantling the government completely-till now. You?

RonD @ 134

PW, never in my extensive research have I heard of a political party whose fundamental goal is to govern badly, and use that failure to justify dismantling the government completely-till now. You?

And they’re doing a bang-up job of it, too!

Phoenix Woman @ 133

Hey folks — TRex will be along with Late Nite in just a couple of minute! Hang in there until then. (Or go to bed if you must. See if I care…sniffle sob)

i’m just getting here PW – glad i get to hang with ya for a wee bit. been a while and always good to sit in on one of your posts.

TRex upstairs, got the zed and now to read.

he… ‘rents are visiting. They spent dinner railing against the Christian right for not throwing their support enthusiastically for Rudy, who is our last best hope against a nation ravaged by the evil she-demon of Clintonville, who plans to sell us to ‘rrerists. I kept my mouth shut, as usual.

Ummm … hold up a sec, y’all.

Isn’t this political speech?

And isn’t political speech the absolute core of what the First Amendment is supposed to protect?

And don’t progressives care about the First Amendment?

You can’t be for the First Amendment only when it protects the speech of people you agree with.

If you’re really for the First Amendment, you are for it when it protects the speech of despicable know-nothing assholes who lie out of both sides of their mouths 24/7.

The cure for bad speech is good speech.

madmommy @ 132

Orleans Parish really does not have a public school system since Katrina. It is all charter schools now, or private catholic or non-affilated schools.

Yup, and as Naomi Klein points out in The Shock Doctrine, that was done deliberately by BushCo. Common Ground is working to fix this, but they need help.

burnspbesq @ 139

Ummm … hold up a sec, y’all.

Isn’t this political speech?

And isn’t political speech the absolute core of what the First Amendment is supposed to protect?

And don’t progressives care about the First Amendment?

You can’t be for the First Amendment only when it protects the speech of people you agree with.

If you’re really for the First Amendment, you are for it when it protects the speech of despicable know-nothing assholes who lie out of both sides of their mouths 24/7.

The cure for bad speech is good speech.

This isn’t “bad speech”, it’s defamation, and defamation isn’t protected (that’s why we have libel law).

Oklahoma kiddo @ 4

I am a teacher in a public school. You may assume I support public education.

Didn’t Ron Paul attend public schools. Or am I wrong on this?

Certainly public High School. But he attended an Evangelical Episcopalian College, initially on his own dime (he delivered mail in the Public Mail Service)…though he was later offered a track scholarship. He went to Medical School at Duke University. I believe Duke receives a substantial amount of Federal money for its programs. Paul seems not to relate that the education he received is largely the result of public moneys generating vastly greater access to education for individuals in the US. Where education is entirely privatized education is available mainly for the rich, or those willing to undertake some specialized work (either as a religious acolyte, or in a vocational field). Paul’s own IMMIGRANT father only received an eighth-grade education.

Interesting side note…one of Paul’s sons is named RAND…after the author Ayn Rand.

Interesting, cinnamonape.

Blub @ 127

sorry.. still hung up on the terminology in the post.. I guess it’s a Cali thing. Is a “levy” a bond issue? A property tax increase? A sales tax increase? A special assessment district? Are “anti-levy” people against the tax or against funding schools?

Yes, it’s an increase in the property tax, at least here. We’ve had a school levy on almost every ballot and they have almost always gotten voted down. You hear people muttering, “They’ll just waste the money. In my day all we needed was chalk, pen and paper. Pfft.”
This is Ohio. Fundamentalism plus job losses equals really bad times for schools.
This last time, a whole lot of my teen son’s teachers were RIF-ed. It was really bad.

Thanks Margot.. soiunds as bad as people here in Cal who send their kids to private school or, worse, home school and then lobby against public school bonds since it doesn’t affect ‘em. Gives new meaning to social irresponsibility and nimbyism.

marymccurnin @ 125

it’d be a little late…

Suzanne @ 126

I understand that, but it doesn’t change the fact that this strike has an imbalanced effect on the media. I’m just wondering whether it has anything to do with the studios’ intransigence.

It’s really very sad. We used to live in Crystal, MN and our kids would have gone to Robinsdale schools; however, my wife is an educator by profession and called it correctly back in the early nineties when that district started sliding downhill.

If there’s any demographic fact of the matter involved, it’s simply that the community, as a whole, has gotten older and less informed and the racist results of that reality blows any other demographic shift out of proportion. That poor community was easy fodder for assholes Dorr and his ilk, but ignorance is no excuse. There wasn’t anything for it, though. We had no roots to the community and simply left our starter house for a school district where all the woman are handsome, the kids are above average, buses run on time and the referendums always pass!

But, for people who do have roots in that community — and it was a fine community at one time — it is a sad, sad story and a sign of the times. Those days are gone like the lilacs on Hwy 100.

…for ripping off the USDA via abusing its public-subsidy program on his own farm.

He was ripping off the USDA, so Bush gave him a leadership position at the USDA? AND HE GOT CONFIRMED.