Hi Jane

Can’t wait to hear what they thought, saw, and heard.

Jane!!!

The masses speak!

Schumer’s ego was the most important thing to him.

AZ Matt @ 5

Schumer’s ego was the most important thing to him.

I wonder whose ego is bigger, Schumer or Rahmbo?

The revolving door shot is brilliant.

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

cowards

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

you keep asking good questions, but damned if I know any of the answers.

Ghostman

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

They like the status quo.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

According to TPM Election Central, it sounds like Reid basically screwed over the presidential candidates by ramrodding through the vote with short notice. No time to make it back to DC in time to vote.

Not that they’re completely innocent, sounds like their calculation was to go on record against Inquisitor Mukasey but then letting it slide through so they didn’t have to actually put any skin in the game.

AZ Matt @ 11

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

They like the status quo.

They don’t wanna be made to sit at the Nerd tables when they go to the kewl kidz dinner parties.

What a beautiful video. So wonderful to see such caring, articulate people standing up for what is right. Thanks to those who demonstrated, and to the film-makers. (And to you, Jane, for spreading care outward.)

not OT tivo alert

Bill Moyers’ Journal

THOMAS CAHILL
Bill Moyers interviews best-selling historian Thomas Cahill in a far ranging interview that takes viewers from the Coliseum in Rome to death row in Texas and examines what our attitudes toward cruelty can tell us about who we are as Americans.

Why weren’t the candidates there to vote? The current word is that they weren’t told when the vote was likely to occur, and the Leadership decided the timing yesterday evening in discussions with Republican leadership, to hold the vote that night, leaving not enough time for the candidates to get back. Not clear what was discussed in those meetings or why the timing was selected.

Wow! That is a brilliant and inspiring video.

The backstory on the late night vote on Mukasey: Reid traded Mukasey for vote on defense appropriations bill.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/
reid_allowed_vote_on_mukasey_in_exchange_for_
military_funding_bill.php

Inquisitor Mukasey was confirmed in the dead of night and sworn in in secrecy (oh, sorry, “private ceremony”) today. Doesn’t really sound like a democratic government, does it? Or is it just everyone’s embarrassed to be a supporter of torture?

OKK,

From the last thread on the dissing of the Hispanic legislators, regular old racist crap. It goes on all the time in Indian Country and the bordertowns.

A friend’s son who is Yakima/Hopi/Navajo tried out for the Coconino HS basketball team in Flagstaff. He and 2 others boys, Navajos, where told by the coach to meet at the rec room at 3 pm. They are there and no one else shows. They go to the gym and the team is practicing. The coach tells them they are late so they are off of the team. They tell him that he told them to go to the rec room. He yells at them he did’t. Friend’s kid loses his temper and yells at the coach, then he gets suspended from school. The school didn’t notify his mother or the dorm folks about this. He looked at old yearbooks showing the basketball teams, no native kids. Pure racist bull.

Laura Doty @ 14

What a beautiful video. So wonderful to see such caring, articulate people standing up for what is right. Thanks to those who demonstrated, and to the film-makers. (And to you, Jane, for spreading care outward.)

Those people are the people who hate America. Just ask Bill O’Reilly.

puppethead @ 12

Oklahoma kiddo @ 8

What is the common thread, if any, and what was the motivation for the vote in favor of the new AG by certain Democrats? What was the reason for skipping the vote on Mukasey by particular Demos?

According to TPM Election Central, it sounds like Reid basically screwed over the presidential candidates by ramrodding through the vote with short notice. No time to make it back to DC in time to vote.

Not that they’re completely innocent, sounds like their calculation was to go on record against Inquisitor Mukasey but then letting it slide through so they didn’t have to actually put any skin in the game.

i’m pretty sure that part is bullshit. see my comments in both threads (one, two).

Valley Girl @ 17

Wow! That is a brilliant and inspiring video.

It is. You go, guys. There are a lot of us friendly foreigners who are so hoping to hear voices like that from the U.S. Beautiful people.

AZ Matt @ 20

OKK,

From the last thread on the dissing of the Hispanic legislators, regular old racist crap. It goes on all the time in Indian Country and the bordertowns.

A friend’s son who is Yakima/Hopi/Navajo tried out for the Coconino HS basketball team in Flagstaff. He and 2 others boys, Navajos, where told by the coach to meet at the rec room at 3 pm. They are there and no one else shows. They go to the gym and the team is practicing. The coach tells them they are late so they are off of the team. They tell him that he told them to go to the rec room. He yells at them he did’t. Friend’s kid loses his temper and yells at the coach, then he gets suspended from school. The school didn’t notify his mother or the dorm folks about this. He looked at old yearbooks showing the basketball teams, no native kids. Pure racist bull.

Matt- this is in AZ-01, right?

Scarecrow @ 16

Why weren’t the candidates there to vote? The current word is that they weren’t told when the vote was likely to occur, and the Leadership decided the timing yesterday evening in discussions with Republican leadership, to hold the vote that night, leaving not enough time for the candidates to get back. Not clear what was discussed in those meetings or why the timing was selected.

see my comment links @22 – i’m pretty sure that’s bs. there was plenty of warning from reid on the senate floor – and it sure looks like he planned it out in great detail with senators.

more likely, i think, is that reid is covering for the senators who wanted an excuse not to be there. at least, that’s the only thing i can think of that is consistent with what happened on the senate floor.

Thank you Jane for posting this video! NY NetRooters have plenty of fight in us…and we’re gearing up for ‘08.

:-)

peony @ 18

The backstory on the late night vote on Mukasey: Reid traded Mukasey for vote on defense appropriations bill.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/
reid_allowed_vote_on_mukasey_in_exchange_for_
military_funding_bill.php

That’s the first explanation I’ve seen that makes sense. Of course the Democrats will roll over and vote all the money Bush wants for Iraq, so it’s just another stupid move by Reid.

RagingGurrl @ 26

Thank you Jane for posting this video! NY NetRooters have plenty of fight in us…and we’re gearing up for ‘08.

:-)

you-all are an inspiration! thank you!

Quebecois @ 7

The revolving door shot is brilliant.

Julie did a great job.

BlueMesa @ 27

peony @ 18

The backstory on the late night vote on Mukasey: Reid traded Mukasey for vote on defense appropriations bill.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/
reid_allowed_vote_on_mukasey_in_exchange_for_
military_funding_bill.php

That’s the first explanation I’ve seen that makes sense. Of course the Democrats will roll over and vote all the money Bush wants for Iraq, so it’s just another stupid move by Reid.

that part of the explanation, i think, makes sense. it was also what i was told this morning by an aide in one of my senator’s offices and it was reported early this morning by cq. i don’t know if greg is getting from cq or if he has his own sources… but i don’t know of anything that happened on the senate floor that contradicts this. if anyone else does, i’d be glad to hear of it….

Valley Girl @ 24

AZ Matt @ 20

OKK,

From the last thread on the dissing of the Hispanic legislators, regular old racist crap. It goes on all the time in Indian Country and the bordertowns.

A friend’s son who is Yakima/Hopi/Navajo tried out for the Coconino HS basketball team in Flagstaff. He and 2 others boys, Navajos, where told by the coach to meet at the rec room at 3 pm. They are there and no one else shows. They go to the gym and the team is practicing. The coach tells them they are late so they are off of the team. They tell him that he told them to go to the rec room. He yells at them he did’t. Friend’s kid loses his temper and yells at the coach, then he gets suspended from school. The school didn’t notify his mother or the dorm folks about this. He looked at old yearbooks showing the basketball teams, no native kids. Pure racist bull.

Matt- this is in AZ-01, right?

Yes it is. However the boy’s mother lives in Trent Frank’s district as Hopi is part of that district.

Would Elliot Spitzer be a viable primary opponent to Schumer or is he just another Party hack that will play along to get along? Schumer’s certainly thinking that by the time for his reelection people will have forgotten his cowardly betrayal to his constituents and the Constitution. As the Israeli’s say, “never forget!” Not only do elections have consequences but actions should have consequences as well.

AZMatt- you still there?

Here’s an idea re: your friend’s son.

Contact Howard Shanker. He is a BA candidate for AZ-01, which includes Flagstaff.

http://www.howardshankerforcongress.com/

~~~ (from his web page) The 1st District needs a Congressman who has the interests of the people at heart. Howard Shanker has a proven track record of fighting for the rights of all Arizonans. As co-founders of the Shanker Law Firm, Howard and his wife Tamera have been advocates for Arizona’s veterans, children, Native Americans and the environment.~~~

AZMatt- didn’t see your last comment before I posted above comment.

Valley Girl @ 33

AZMatt- you still there?

Here’s an idea re: your friend’s son.

Contact Howard Shanker. He is a BA candidate for AZ-01, which includes Flagstaff.

http://www.howardshankerforcongress.com/

~~~ (from his web page) The 1st District needs a Congressman who has the interests of the people at heart. Howard Shanker has a proven track record of fighting for the rights of all Arizonans. As co-founders of the Shanker Law Firm, Howard and his wife Tamera have been advocates for Arizona’s veterans, children, Native Americans and the environment.~~~

Good suggestion, thanks!

selise @ 25

Scarecrow @ 16

Why weren’t the candidates there to vote? The current word is that they weren’t told when the vote was likely to occur, and the Leadership decided the timing yesterday evening in discussions with Republican leadership, to hold the vote that night, leaving not enough time for the candidates to get back. Not clear what was discussed in those meetings or why the timing was selected.

see my comment links @22 – i’m pretty sure that’s bs. there was plenty of warning from reid on the senate floor – and it sure looks like he planned it out in great detail with senators.

more likely, i think, is that reid is covering for the senators who wanted an excuse not to be there. at least, that’s the only thing i can think of that is consistent with what happened on the senate floor.

I don’t understand this argument. What do you assume was the motive of the candidates, all of whom had already indicated their opposition to Mukasey? The vote was important enough for them to take a stand in advance, and so appearing to cast that vote would have been consistent with their views/positions and how they wanted to be seen by the electorate. In other words, they had no reason to duck a vote. So I don’t get what you think was motivating them, or Reid in giving them an “excuse.” They didn’t need an excuse.

AZ Matt- sounds like a story that Shanker needs to know about.

Jane Hamsher @ 29

Quebecois @ 7

The revolving door shot is brilliant.

Julie did a great job.

Absolutely! Beautifully produced.

I’m convinced the problem with water boarding is the term, the term is too benign and doesn’t project what is going on

we don’t have a title for “pulling your fingernails out one at a time”

we don’t have a title for “hanging you by your toes”

the way we discuss this torture needs to be by description not by title

instead of “water boarding” it needs “pouring water down your throat while holding your nose without letting you breath until you suck that water deep into your lungs instead replacing your air with water”

or;

“drowning you to the brink of death and reviving you”

“filling your lungs with water until you cough up the bile”

I’m sure somebody can come up with something shorter and more concise then what I came up with but really, one of the problems is how benign the term “water boarding” sounds

Unfortunately Schumer doesn’t care what you or I or anyone else thinks about his support for Mukasey. He’s out for himself and A*P*C…not the Constitution or the American people…

perris, I heard in the debate last night, “controlled drowning”

There’s a quite helpful article in The Hill from late this afternoon that tries to get beneath the surface of the process, without a whole lot of success. Included is this:

Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) said Friday he wasn’t going to say “one way or another” whether his party’s leaders asked Democrats to hold off on a filibuster.

[snip]

When asked about the status of the Mukasey confirmation vote Thursday afternoon, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said: “We’re going to see what the Republicans are going to do on the defense appropriation bill and the [continuing resolution].”

The Democratic aide, however, said the threat over the defense appropriations bill was not tied to the filibuster question.

Caroline Fredrickson, director of the Washington Legislative Office for the American Civil Liberties Union, said she was concerned that Democratic leaders didn’t lean harder on their members to vote against the nomination or at least delay the vote until there was a clearer commitment from Mukasey that he repudiated the administration’s torture policies.

But Democrats were in a tough spot on the nominee. Blocking Mukasey would have left the Department of Justice without a leader even though Democrats had been pressing for new leadership after the tenure of Alberto Gonzales.

“I don’t think they had any intention of derailing the nomination,” another GOP aide said of Democrats.

http://thehill.com/leading-the…..11-09.html

BlueMesa @ 38

Jane Hamsher @ 29

Julie did a great job.

Absolutely! Beautifully produced.

And on that note of sound solidarity by NY netrooters, I’m out! night fdlers

egregious @ 40

perris, I heard in the debate last night, “controlled drowning”

Sounds like something Frank Luntz came up with

Fantastic video, Julie! You rock. ;-)

Valley Girl @ 37

AZ Matt- sounds like a story that Shanker needs to know about.

True, however my friend is supposed to meet with officials on Tuesday and then she and her son will decide what they want to do. I gave her a copy of their discpinary materials from off the internet. He could have been just been counseled rather than suspended. Supposedly the coach got 4 other adults to say they witnessed this. The boy says there were no other adults present when he yelled back at the coach.

Nite, tw3k!

CTuttle @ 46

Nite, tw3k!

yep!

What DID happen???? Still a mystery. Scarecrow gives us a report….selise gives us a report. Mighty strange. I kinda DOUBT that Harry actually did anything “behind the backs” of the D team presidential candidates. Those folks are also some of the senatorial heavyweights….I just can’t see Harry backstabbing Clinton, et al in such a fashion. Soooo….I conclude it was all done WITH full knowledge of Hillary, Barak, etc.

And, as to Hillary, this time she may just have gotten too cute in her triangle crap. Obviously, the R team didn’t sleep thru last night’s mess. So, if Hillary gets the nomination….here’s what the R team will do in the national campaign:

We’ll see ads from the R team castigating Hillary. The ads will say:

“Hillary is too weak to be President. She says, a year ago, that her leadership surprised her with a quick vote on our nation’s chief law enforcement officer. But never uttered even ONE WORD in protest. Never complained or fought back. She just sat there….and took it.

“Fellow Americans, is this the kind of COWARD you want as President? Someone too afraid to even stand up to aging Senators from her own party??? What happens when the terrorists hit us again? Will she freeze, like she did in November, ‘07?

“The choice is yours. Vote for the strong R team…or vote for a deer in the headlights. For the sake of your children….vote Republican.”

Now, of course the ads won’t be in those exact words. The actual words will be much more refined and so forth. But the MESSAGE will be the same! And, it’s going to be a pretty damn convincing message to alot of folks/voters.

And all because little Hillary just got too cute for her triangulating self in November, 2007.

Ghostman

Waves at Elliot.

egregious @ 40

perris, I heard in the debate last night, “controlled drowning”

Very powerful. Yikes.

Jane, thank you for posting this…

What gives me hope is that the cultural zeitgeist is shifting in favor of progressives and the grass/net roots. A groundswell is building up to 2012. Now there’s the election I’m looking forward to.

Now, this is OT, but “a thing of beauty is a joy…”

This is a passage from “Gifts of Unknown Things” by Lyall Watson: An exchange between Watson and a young girl on an island in Indonesia:

“How can you listen to talk or music without color?” Her eyes were full of pity. “When the drums talk, they lay a carpet of brown, like soft sand on the ground. A dancer stands on this. Then the gongs call in green and yellow, building forests through which we move and turn. And if we lose our way, there is always the white thread of the flute or the song to guide us home.”

She shook her head in sorrow and dismay, and faced with the wisdom of this twelve-year-old. I felt like a backward child.”

(This is describing an ability to see sounds in color, which is still prevalent among children in Indonesia, and is not merely poetic or imaginative.)

from a highly recommended diary at DKos by “our own”(?) Persiflage:

Everyone who voted to confirm Mukasey is just that…a moral pygmy.

And those who chose not to vote…including CLINTON, DODD, OBAMA, BIDEN and McCain (can you believe it)…You’re not just moral pygmies, you’re gutless moral pygmies. And you want to be OUR president? Take a hike…all of you!

egregious @ 41

perris, I heard in the debate last night, “controlled drowning”

that’s better then waterboarding but it’s still too benign I think

how about “drowing until gag reflexes force up convulsion and bile till near death”

I know I can be verbose but the term democrats have to use has to be as descriptive and frightening as the practice

we’ve sterilized the discussion, we’ve fallen for their old trick and let them use the terms they want to use instead of the terms that are indicative of the situation

they get to call it “the patriot act”, “the clean air act”,. the “no child left behind act”, “the energy bill”

they get to frame discussion in the light that suits them and we allow it

we have to find the right term to discuss this torture and we have to make sure the democrats use that term

the term has to evoke fear and disgust

Bluetoe @ 32

As the Israeli’s say, “never forget!”

Who cares what Isr**l says. It is a phony nation built on theft from the Palestinians. The US helped create and it, and we have only had problems. All Isr**l produces is war, violence and instability.

Millineryman @ 49

Waves at Elliot.

hi back! isn’t that a great video!

perris @ 53

egregious @ 41

perris, I heard in the debate last night, “controlled drowning”

that’s better then waterboarding but it’s still too benign I think

how about “drowing until gag reflexes force up convulsion and bile till near death”

I know I can be verbose but the term democrats have to use has to be as descriptive and frightening as the practice

we’ve sterilized the discussion, we’ve fallen for their old trick and let them use the terms they want to use instead of the terms that are indicative of the situation

they get to call it “the patriot act”, “the clean air act”,. the “no child left behind act”, “the energy bill”

they get to frame discussion in the light that suits them and we allow it

we have to find the right term to discuss this torture and we have to make sure the democrats use that term

the term has to evoke fear and disgust

Yep, and the thing is, it can be done without leaving external bodily evidence of torture on the victim. Clean torture, if you want to put it that way.

Elliot- were you in the vid?

perris @ 39

I’m convinced the problem with water boarding is the term, the term is too benign and doesn’t project what is going on

we don’t have a title for “pulling your fingernails out one at a time”

we don’t have a title for “hanging you by your toes”

the way we discuss this torture needs to be by description not by title

instead of “water boarding” it needs “pouring water down your throat while holding your nose without letting you breath until you suck that water deep into your lungs instead replacing your air with water”

or;

“drowning you to the brink of death and reviving you”

“filling your lungs with water until you cough up the bile”

I’m sure somebody can come up with something shorter and more concise then what I came up with but really, one of the problems is how benign the term “water boarding” sounds

Bush Water Torture

Wow Jane, phenomenal video thanks for posting it!

Valley Girl @ 57

Elliot- were you in the vid?

no, I’m in PA

Elliott @ 55

Millineryman @ 49

Waves at Elliot.

hi back! isn’t that a great video!

Indeed it is.

Elliott @ 61

Valley Girl @ 57

Elliot- were you in the vid?

no, I’m in PA

okay. in that case, I will wave to both you and millinery man. ;)

punaise @ 52

from a highly recommended diary at DKos by “our own”(?) Persiflage:

Everyone who voted to confirm Mukasey is just that…a moral pygmy.

And those who chose not to vote…including CLINTON, DODD, OBAMA, BIDEN and McCain (can you believe it)…You’re not just moral pygmies, you’re gutless moral pygmies. And you want to be OUR president? Take a hike…all of you!

Not likely, Pun! I’m of the opinion that it’s not our ‘Persi!’

peony @ 51

Jane, thank you for posting this…

What gives me hope is that the cultural zeitgeist is shifting in favor of progressives and the grass/net roots. A groundswell is building up to 2012. Now there’s the election I’m looking forward to.

Now, this is OT, but “a thing of beauty is a joy…”

This is a passage from “Gifts of Unknown Things” by Lyall Watson: An exchange between Watson and a young girl on an island in Indonesia:

“How can you listen to talk or music without color?” Her eyes were full of pity. “When the drums talk, they lay a carpet of brown, like soft sand on the ground. A dancer stands on this. Then the gongs call in green and yellow, building forests through which we move and turn. And if we lose our way, there is always the white thread of the flute or the song to guide us home.”

She shook her head in sorrow and dismay, and faced with the wisdom of this twelve-year-old. I felt like a backward child.”

(This is describing an ability to see sounds in color, which is still prevalent among children in Indonesia, and is not merely poetic or imaginative.)

Maybe I’m just naive, but it bothers me when people talk about conceding that H. Clinton will be nominated in 2007, and lose, and so we should just give up and wait until 2012. Why not just vote against her now?

Indonesia is a beautiful country. I hope our politics will get back to where we don’t care about a country’s dominant religion and we seek to be friends with all peoples, including the the 4th most populous country in the world.

Valley Girl @ 63

Elliott @ 61

no, I’m in PA

okay. in that case, I will wave to both you and millinery man. ;)

*waving to Valley Girl*

solai @ 59

perris @ 39

I’m convinced the problem with water boarding is the term, the term is too benign and doesn’t project what is going on

we don’t have a title for “pulling your fingernails out one at a time”

we don’t have a title for “hanging you by your toes”

the way we discuss this torture needs to be by description not by title

instead of “water boarding” it needs “pouring water down your throat while holding your nose without letting you breath until you suck that water deep into your lungs instead replacing your air with water”

or;

“drowning you to the brink of death and reviving you”

“filling your lungs with water until you cough up the bile”

I’m sure somebody can come up with something shorter and more concise then what I came up with but really, one of the problems is how benign the term “water boarding” sounds

Bush Water Torture

oh man, I think I like that!

“bush’s water torture”

EXCELLANT

and then when a neo con pundit says anythink like “it’s dabateable” they took the bait and the democrat will unload;

“what would YOU call it when they hold your nose and fill your mouth with water till you have no choice but to suck water deep into your lungs until you convulse and swallow your own bile?..you TRY to tell me that isn’t torture, go ahead and TRY”

I LOVE the new title, “bush’s water torture”

Hey VG! waves back.

Is there a mod here. These people are getting gross.

CTuttle @ 65

punaise @ 52

from a highly recommended diary at DKos by “our own”(?) Persiflage:

Not likely, Pun! I’m of the opinion that it’s not our ‘Persi!’

yeah, my mistake. what are the odds?

off to bed, g’night all

BlueMesa @ 64

peony @ 51

Jane, thank you for posting this…

What gives me hope is that the cultural zeitgeist is shifting in favor of progressives and the grass/net roots. A groundswell is building up to 2012. Now there’s the election I’m looking forward to.

Now, this is OT, but “a thing of beauty is a joy…”

This is a passage from “Gifts of Unknown Things” by Lyall Watson: An exchange between Watson and a young girl on an island in Indonesia:

“How can you listen to talk or music without color?” Her eyes were full of pity. “When the drums talk, they lay a carpet of brown, like soft sand on the ground. A dancer stands on this. Then the gongs call in green and yellow, building forests through which we move and turn. And if we lose our way, there is always the white thread of the flute or the song to guide us home.”

She shook her head in sorrow and dismay, and faced with the wisdom of this twelve-year-old. I felt like a backward child.”

(This is describing an ability to see sounds in color, which is still prevalent among children in Indonesia, and is not merely poetic or imaginative.)

Maybe I’m just naive, but it bothers me when people talk about conceding that H. Clinton will be nominated in 2007, and lose, and so we should just give up and wait until 2012. Why not just vote against her now?

Indonesia is a beautiful country. I hope our politics will get back to where we don’t care about a country’s dominant religion and we seek to be friends with all peoples, including the the 4th most populous country in the world.

And the largest ‘Muslim’ nation… ;-)

perris @ 72

off to bed, g’night all

nite perris

Scarecrow, in response to your comments above.

My take is that some are frustrated with all of the Dem candidates, for one reason or another. And thus they get extra scrutiny for “say” vs. “do”. Talking the talk is not the same as walking the walk.

Schumer and Feinstein voted the A*P*C Whip.
A*P&C less and less represents Jewish opinion in the US, and we saw that in the clip!

How sad Schumer is not up for re-election next year, but I seem to remember Feinstein is.

New post

punaise @ 70

CTuttle @ 65

Not likely, Pun! I’m of the opinion that it’s not our ‘Persi!’

yeah, my mistake. what are the odds?

My main contention is our Persi didn’t serve in Nam…
“When I was in Vietnam so many years ago (artillery)” *g*

The people speak, the coward refuses to face them. Watch out in 2010, Chucky.

perris @ 71

off to bed, g’night all

Aloha!

1,653 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

“Hey Rahm, you’ve got a district that’s 25% Hispanic…do you really want to role those dice?”

Holy shit, 25% Hispanic…now how about findin’ a primary opponent for Mr. Schumer, how’s Elliot Spitzer sound? Wouldn’t that be grand ta split Schumer’s base even if it puts Bloomberg in the governor’s mansion?

KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP ON KEEPIN’ ON, JANIE!!

Scarecrow @ 36

selise @ 25

see my comment links @22 – i’m pretty sure that’s bs. there was plenty of warning from reid on the senate floor – and it sure looks like he planned it out in great detail with senators.

more likely, i think, is that reid is covering for the senators who wanted an excuse not to be there. at least, that’s the only thing i can think of that is consistent with what happened on the senate floor.

I don’t understand this argument. What do you assume was the motive of the candidates, all of whom had already indicated their opposition to Mukasey? The vote was important enough for them to take a stand in advance, and so appearing to cast that vote would have been consistent with their views/positions and how they wanted to be seen by the electorate. In other words, they had no reason to duck a vote. So I don’t get what you think was motivating them, or Reid in giving them an “excuse.” They didn’t need an excuse.

my alternative hypothesis is that they needed an excuse for not objecting to the UC. after all this is thing they could have done to oppose his nomination. just like lieberman’s vote against alito – it hardly mattered, since he had vote for cloture. well, this was as if all the dems voted for cloture – since none of them objected to the UC.

“The vote was important enough for them to take a stand in advance” that’s the kabuki – it has no bearing on whether or not the nomination passed. by staying away they were able to appear to be against the nomination, while actually helping it succeed (by not objecting to the UC which they could have done if they were there.

i don’t know that this is so, and i don’t claim that it is. only that it is consistent with what happened on the senate floor, whereas the explanation that reid only announced the vote at 7pm and they didn’t have time to return is not consistent with events on the senate floor.

in addition, i was told by a clinton staffer when i called this morning, that her official response was that she had a “scheduling conflict,” not that she wasn’t able to get to dc in time for the vote. (more here)

so, i’m perfectly willing to dump my alternative hypothesis – but the explanation that reid didn’t tell anyone until the 7pm is just wrong (if you follow my previous links, you will see this is so from yesterday’s senate floor transcript).

MufsMom @ 78

The people speak, the coward refuses to face them. Watch out in 2010, Chucky.

That’s the part that irks me. He is very confident that he’s got a seat for life. We need a Ned Lamont or a John Laesch. Someone willing to take him on. Or at the very least, let him know that a primary fight is possible. Right now, he thinks he’s indestructible.

SnarKassandra @ 69

Is there a mod here. These people are getting gross.

I’m not sure what you are referring to.

If it is the descriptions of torture that you find gross, well, that’s the truth.

Thank you (((((Jane)))))

Thank you (((((Julie)))))

Thank you ALL you dawgs involved in putting pressure on all these people now presuming to govern us all.

Not the least, thank you ALL of the people who were willing to speak out in public.

Our democracy is in danger. Its principles have been set aside too often to make way for the convenience of those in power.

Enough!

For those of you whose comments no longer appear in this thread, let’s find a better way to talk to each other please.

Thanks.

How fantastic! Great video and really great people out there who care about this country!

RBG @ 85

For those of you whose comments no longer appear in this thread, let’s find a better way to talk to each other please.

Thanks.

Second!

Valley Girl @ 83

SnarKassandra @ 69

Is there a mod here. These people are getting gross.

I’m not sure what you are referring to.

If it is the descriptions of torture that you find gross, well, that’s the truth.

Refresh your browser and things should look different.

KayInMaine @ 51

egregious @ 40

perris, I heard in the debate last night, “controlled drowning”

Very powerful. Yikes.

I think of it as “Intentional captive drowning”. I know, a little wordy but far more accurate than waterboarding, which sounds like what my son does when he takes his surboard out to catch waves.

BlueMesa: “Maybe I’m just naive, but it bothers me when people talk about conceding that H. Clinton will be nominated in 2007, and lose, and so we should just give up and wait until 2012. Why not just vote against her now?”

BlueMesa, Hi, no, my comment about 2012 isn’t about an anticipation of Hillary losing in ‘08. I think Hillary will win in ‘08. However, Hillary is too mainstream for me, too dyed in the wool of the establishment for my tastes, but that’s me.

I would like to convince Bloomberg to run against Schumer. Schumer MUST go. He is a criminal, fully culpable in all the torture that has happened and will now happen.

Worse, if Schumer does pass a law banning waterboarding, he automatically gives immunity to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc, etc, because ex post facto ensues. Bush gets to say, “See? The law was ambiguous before, now it is explicit and clear”, and he goes scott free.

I daresay that this was precisely the point of Mukasey putting that bug in Schumer’s ear. He WANTS Schumer and the Democraps to pass such a law so that there is NO WAY anyone can be prosecuted for anything that happened prior to the law’s passage.

Even worse, Schumer could try to pass such a law, Bush vetos it and waterboarding becomes legal as a result.

It is lose-lose either way.

solai @ 59

perris @ 39

I’m convinced the problem with water boarding is the term, the term is too benign and doesn’t project what is going on

we don’t have a title for “pulling your fingernails out one at a time”

we don’t have a title for “hanging you by your toes”

the way we discuss this torture needs to be by description not by title

instead of “water boarding” it needs “pouring water down your throat while holding your nose without letting you breath until you suck that water deep into your lungs instead replacing your air with water”

or;

“drowning you to the brink of death and reviving you”

“filling your lungs with water until you cough up the bile”

I’m sure somebody can come up with something shorter and more concise then what I came up with but really, one of the problems is how benign the term “water boarding” sounds

Bush Water Torture

Oh, that’s much better than mine! “Bush’s Water Torture” gets my vote.

Scarecrow @ 36

I don’t understand this argument. What do you assume was the motive of the candidates, all of whom had already indicated their opposition to Mukasey? The vote was important enough for them to take a stand in advance, and so appearing to cast that vote would have been consistent with their views/positions and how they wanted to be seen by the electorate. In other words, they had no reason to duck a vote. So I don’t get what you think was motivating them, or Reid in giving them an “excuse.” They didn’t need an excuse.

Possibilities:
1) They didn’t want to go to the work of fillibustering (their only option to really oppose)
2) They thought the appropriations bill was more important and didn’t want to jeopardize it
3) They really never opposed Mukassey
4) They have a private deal with Mukassey.

Mix and match to taste.

thanks RBG

so here’s reason #1 why i think the explanation – that the senators were surprised when reid told them at 7pm there would be a vote on the mukasey nomination – is bs:

this is senator reid’s morning statement on the schedule for the day:

Mr. REID. Mr. President, this morning the Senate will be in a period for the transaction of morning business for 1 hour, with the first half controlled by the majority and the second half controlled by the Republicans. Following morning business, the Senate will resume consideration of the veto message on H.R. 1495, the Water Resources Development Act. There is 30 minutes of debate on the veto message. Senators Boxer and Inhofe will control 7 1/2 minutes each, and the other
15 minutes in support of the veto is under the control of the Republican leader or his designee.

For planning purposes, Members can expect a rollcall vote on the veto override about 11:40 this morning. As I have indicated, we will vote on the President’s veto override. The House of Representatives voted yesterday 361 to 54 on the veto override.

This is one of the bipartisan measures we have done. We have had Senators Boxer and Inhofe working together on legislation, which any day should be a day of celebration, and they have worked so hard on this legislation. I am confident Members on both sides of the aisle will support the two managers.

Later this afternoon, we will receive the Defense appropriations conference report from the House which will include a continuing resolution to keep Government agencies funded until the middle of next month. We hope to reach agreement so we can dispose of that matter quickly and send it to the President today. It is essential we do this quickly so we can send our men and women in uniform, who have sacrificed so much in Iraq and Afghanistan and around the world, the support they deserve. It is about $470 billion.

Finally, I have had some discussion with the distinguished Republican leader to try to work out an agreement to dispose of the Mukasey nomination. I thought I had that all worked out. Last night, a little wrinkle appeared, but I hope we can reach agreement on that today as well.

TR @ 89

KayInMaine @ 51

Very powerful. Yikes.

I think of it as “Intentional captive drowning”. I know, a little wordy but far more accurate than waterboarding, which sounds like what my son does when he takes his surboard out to catch waves.

Drowning Torture would also work or Intentional Hydro-Asphyxiation….

*sigh*

4) They have a private deal with Mukassey.

The only acceptable deal is for Mukasey to declare that, indeed, waterboarding IS torture. As I mention above, if the agreement is that Congress passes a law banning waterboarding, then it is unacceptable and a poison pill planted by Mukasey. It guarantees immunity for ALL the guilty parties involved in waterboarding before the law’s passage. Ex post facto would ensue, ensuring that no one could be held accountable. It means they all get to claim that the law was ambiguous before they passed the law, and see? “They had to pass the law to make it clear that waterboarding isn’t acceptable.” It means that until the law was passed, waterboarding was legal.

It means that the Dems must also present a bill that fully exonerates the Japanese we convicted expressly because they waterboarded American soldiers in WWII. If it wasn’t illegal until they passed the law, then it clearly wasn’t illegal back then.

This is a total, unmitigated disaster. The ONLY acceptable action is no action at all. Waterboarding IS torture and as such is illegal…until they pass a law expressly forbidding it. At that point it becomes merely a matter of statutory US law and binding to no one but the US. All other countries become immediately free to adopt waterboarding and use it against US citizens and soldiers and there can be no legal remedy.

Selise — I only have info from the Dodd folks; nothing from others, so I can’t say what motivated other people or what they knew when.

Another hypothesis: the leadership does a vote count and realizes that if they try to filibuster, the Repubs plus BushDogs (from gang of 14) have enough for cloture. Leadership concludes, “we’re going to lose, no matter what, so what is the best way to lose? And what can we get in exchange?” One possibility at that point would be to avoid a cloture vote and go straight to the main vote. Perhaps the leadership felt either theres’ no point in going further, so they bargained for whatever else they wanted and let the vote proceed. This is just guessing, but it’s also consistent with what little I know.

I never believed, once Schumer/Feinstein broke, that they could hold enough people against cloture, because too many would agree with his/her arguments: this is the best we can get; the alternative is worse.

It’s not satisfying, I know.

p.s.damn, i forgot to put the time and link in for senator reid’s morning schedule statement above. the time was 09:51 am, and here’s the link.

reason #2:

here’s senator reid’s statement at 6:50pm:

Mr. REID. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent the Senate now proceed to executive session to consider Executive Calendar No. 374, the nomination of Michael Mukasey to be Attorney General of the United States; that there be a time limitation of 5 hours of debate equally divided between the chairman and ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, with the Democratic time divided as follows: Senator Leahy, 45 minutes; Senator Dorgan, 15 minutes; Senator Durbin, 20 minutes; Senator Cardin, 10 minutes; Senator Reed, 15 minutes; Senator Kennedy, 10 minutes; Senator Harkin, 10 minutes; Senator Boxer, 15 minutes; Senator Salazar, 10 minutes; that upon the conclusion or yielding back of the time, the leaders be recognized for 10 minutes each, with the majority leader going last; that the Senate then vote on confirmation of the nomination; the motion to reconsider be laid on the table; the President be immediately notified of the Senate’s action, and the Senate then resume legislative session; that the Senate then, without intervening action or debate, vote adoption of the conference report on H.R. 3222.

i have a hard time believing that when senator reid made this statement it caught the dem senators by surprise. in order to plan the which senators would speak, and when they would speak, isn’t it more likey that the dem senators already knew the vote was at least very likely to happen – long before 7pm?

GordonM @ 93

Scarecrow @ 36

I don’t understand this argument. What do you assume was the motive of the candidates, all of whom had already indicated their opposition to Mukasey? The vote was important enough for them to take a stand in advance, and so appearing to cast that vote would have been consistent with their views/positions and how they wanted to be seen by the electorate. In other words, they had no reason to duck a vote. So I don’t get what you think was motivating them, or Reid in giving them an “excuse.” They didn’t need an excuse.

Possibilities:
1) They didn’t want to go to the work of fillibustering (their only option to really oppose)
2) They thought the appropriations bill was more important and didn’t want to jeopardize it
3) They really never opposed Mukassey
4) They have a private deal with Mukassey.

Mix and match to taste.

All possible, and not exhaustive; we just don’t know, and it troubles me that the leadership is willing to leave its activist base in the dark, when “trust me” is not selling.

GordonM @ 93

Scarecrow @ 36

I don’t understand this argument. What do you assume was the motive of the candidates, all of whom had already indicated their opposition to Mukasey? The vote was important enough for them to take a stand in advance, and so appearing to cast that vote would have been consistent with their views/positions and how they wanted to be seen by the electorate. In other words, they had no reason to duck a vote. So I don’t get what you think was motivating them, or Reid in giving them an “excuse.” They didn’t need an excuse.

Possibilities:
1) They didn’t want to go to the work of fillibustering (their only option to really oppose)
2) They thought the appropriations bill was more important and didn’t want to jeopardize it
3) They really never opposed Mukassey
4) They have a private deal with Mukassey.

Mix and match to taste.

Knowing how the vote went down last night, did anyone else find it weird that Mitch “Horrible Teeth” McConnell’s statement before the vote made it appear Mukasey wasn’t going to be confirmed? He seemed at a loss for words and really down about what he “knew”.

The whole freaking night was strange to be honest.

many thanks to pow wow and hugh for bringing senator reid’s floor statements to my attention.

Praedor Atrebates @ 97

4) They have a private deal with Mukassey.

The only acceptable deal is for Mukasey to declare that, indeed, waterboarding IS torture. As I mention above, if the agreement is that Congress passes a law banning waterboarding, then it is unacceptable and a poison pill planted by Mukasey. It guarantees immunity for ALL the guilty parties involved in waterboarding before the law’s passage. Ex post facto would ensue, ensuring that no one could be held accountable. It means they all get to claim that the law was ambiguous before they passed the law, and see? “They had to pass the law to make it clear that waterboarding isn’t acceptable.” It means that until the law was passed, waterboarding was legal.

It means that the Dems must also present a bill that fully exonerates the Japanese we convicted expressly because they waterboarded American soldiers in WWII. If it wasn’t illegal until they passed the law, then it clearly wasn’t illegal back then.

This is a total, unmitigated disaster. The ONLY acceptable action is no action at all. Waterboarding IS torture and as such is illegal…until they pass a law expressly forbidding it. At that point it becomes merely a matter of statutory US law and binding to no one but the US. All other countries become immediately free to adopt waterboarding and use it against US citizens and soldiers and there can be no legal remedy.

You’re thinking morally, not politically. They may have a deal to get Bush on the attorney firings, or stacking the civil rights division, or the voting rights division, or lying to the public or cherry picking intelligence or GOP connections to fraudulent contractors or Blackwater… Really, the list is endless, and any one of them if pursued by the AG could end the administration.

Scarecrow @ 98

Selise — I only have info from the Dodd folks; nothing from others, so I can’t say what motivated other people or what they knew when.

are the dodd people (matt?) telling you that they didn’t know the mukasey vote was probably going to be the last thing on yesterday’s agenda? that they were surprised by the 7pm anouncement?

Scarecrow @ 98

It’s not satisfying, I know.

i’m more interested in knowing what is true than what is satisfying. i’m not looking for explanations, except insofar as they further my understanding of what is true.

Scarecrow @ 100

All possible, and not exhaustive; we just don’t know, and it troubles me that the leadership is willing to leave its activist base in the dark, when “trust me” is not selling.

that’s because when people have something to hide, it usually means they know i won’t like it.

KayInMaine @ 101

Knowing how the vote went down last night, did anyone else find it weird that Mitch “Horrible Teeth” McConnell’s statement before the vote made it appear Mukasey wasn’t going to be confirmed? He seemed at a loss for words and really down about what he “knew”.

The whole freaking night was strange to be honest.

No, didn’t see Grandma McConnell. It was a very strange night, but that’s becoming commonplace.

GordonM @ 107

KayInMaine @ 101

Knowing how the vote went down last night, did anyone else find it weird that Mitch “Horrible Teeth” McConnell’s statement before the vote made it appear Mukasey wasn’t going to be confirmed? He seemed at a loss for words and really down about what he “knew”.

The whole freaking night was strange to be honest.

No, didn’t see Grandma McConnell. It was a very strange night, but that’s becoming commonplace.

Grandma McConnell. LOL

You’re thinking morally, not politically. They may have a deal to get Bush on the attorney firings, or stacking the civil rights division, or the voting rights division, or lying to the public or cherry picking intelligence or GOP connections to fraudulent contractors or Blackwater… Really, the list is endless, and any one of them if pursued by the AG could end the administration.

Oh please. There will be no “getting Bush” with this AG. No way. The Dems go out of their way to AVOID getting anyone!

And I am not ONLY thinking morally. I am in the military. I am thinking practically. I am thinking about MY ass. I am thinking about how I get to be waterboarded if I am captured in some conflict (not involving especially violent insurgents with a penchant for beheading) and that it will be totally legal. I am thinking about how all those around me can be waterboarded with wild abandon. I am thinking about how this is yet another means of the Dems going out of their way to avoid nailing Bush, Cheney, or any of the rest for a single crime they’ve committed. By passing a law banning waterboarding, it automatically brings up the question about what OTHER torture methods not mentioned are legal? It also DOES give ex post facto protection to all the perpetrators prior to the law’s passage. It DOES render illegitimate the convictions of the Japanese for the very same activity before the law’s passage.

Finally, there are a lot of things worse than thinking morally. We have far too little of that in our government.

KayInMaine @ 101

Knowing how the vote went down last night, did anyone else find it weird that Mitch “Horrible Teeth” McConnell’s statement before the vote made it appear Mukasey wasn’t going to be confirmed? He seemed at a loss for words and really down about what he “knew”.

The whole freaking night was strange to be honest.

i have only read his statement (haven’t listened to it) – is this the one you are referring to?

selise @ 110

KayInMaine @ 101

Knowing how the vote went down last night, did anyone else find it weird that Mitch “Horrible Teeth” McConnell’s statement before the vote made it appear Mukasey wasn’t going to be confirmed? He seemed at a loss for words and really down about what he “knew”.

The whole freaking night was strange to be honest.

i have only read his statement (haven’t listened to it) – is this the one you are referring to?

Thanks Selise. That is his final speech before the vote, but I don’t see it in there. He had a ton of doubt in his voice as he made this speech. Is it possible he mumbled it and it didn’t get recorded? I don’t know, but I swear he made reference to the fact that he didn’t think he was going to be confirmed and was acting disappointed.

Maybe it was my own wishful thinking on Mukasey? LOL Hey, I was laying in bed half asleep, so it could very well be! ;-)

I completely enjoyed Bernie Sander’s speech last night. It was angry, thoughtful, and right on the money about the King.

Praedor Atrebates @ 109

Finally, there are a lot of things worse than thinking morally. We have far too little of that in our government.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m pointing out that they are politicians, and you aren’t.

I don’t put any money on any of those possibilities. But an easy way to be rid of Bush is something that would appeal to them, whatever their motives.

While thinking about Mukasey, it occurred to me:

Remember how we thought that Ashcroft as AG was The Worst Thing Ever? We were wrong. Alberto Gonzales was worse. Much, much, much worse. (When Ashcroft on his hospital bed can become a comparative hero for standing up to BushCo, you know how far things have fallen.)

The scuttlebutt in DC is that while he’s conservative, Mukasey is actually worlds better than the clowns running DoJ now — the ones Gonzales brought in. (Yes, that tells you just how awful Main Justice is right now.) And Bush is never going to appoint anyone we like. (Movement conservatives like Richard Viguerie came out against Mukasey early on precisely because he was someone that many Democrats didn’t find utterly repulsive. Again, that should tell you something.)

So while Mukasey’s never going to be confused with Louis Brandeis, know that — sadly — he’s as good as we’re probably going to get out of the worst group of persons ever to occupy the White House.

Phoenix Woman @ 114

While thinking about Mukasey, it occurred to me:

Remember how we thought that Ashcroft as AG was The Worst Thing Ever? We were wrong. Alberto Gonzales was worse. Much, much, much worse. (When Ashcroft on his hospital bed can become a comparative hero for standing up to BushCo, you know how far things have fallen.)

The scuttlebutt in DC is that while he’s conservative, Mukasey is actually worlds better than the clowns running DoJ now — the ones Gonzales brought in. (Yes, that tells you just how awful Main Justice is right now.) And Bush is never going to appoint anyone we like. (Movement conservatives like Richard Viguerie came out against Mukasey early on precisely because he was someone that many Democrats didn’t find utterly repulsive. Again, that should tell you something.)

So while Mukasey’s never going to be confused with Louis Brandeis, know that — sadly — he’s as good as we’re probably going to get out of the worst group of persons ever to occupy the White House.

And that’s why I think there’s a real possibility they have some kind of deal – like he’ll turn over the RNC emails, stop stonewalling subpoenas…

And that’s why I think there’s a real possibility they have some kind of deal – like he’ll turn over the RNC emails, stop stonewalling subpoenas…

And, again, in return we get legalized torture with the ONLY way to criminalize it, passing a law that automatically gives ex post facto protection for Bush, et al. It also automatically makes waterboarding ONLY a matter of parochial US law and not binding on any other country.

With one stroke, RNC emails for torture, we endanger all American citizens both in and out of uniform.

Not a good trade. The only good trade is Mukasey gets confirmed and in return, he declares his comportment with objective reality: waterboarding is, was, and ever shall be torture.

He then proceeds to investigate the Administration and its practices and people start getting indicted for war crimes.

THAT is a good trade. A few emails showing mere financial or voting corruption are a pathetic trade when compared to torture. Priorities people.

Phoenix Woman @ 114

While thinking about Mukasey, it occurred to me:

Remember how we thought that Ashcroft as AG was The Worst Thing Ever? We were wrong. Alberto Gonzales was worse. Much, much, much worse. (When Ashcroft on his hospital bed can become a comparative hero for standing up to BushCo, you know how far things have fallen.)

The scuttlebutt in DC is that while he’s conservative, Mukasey is actually worlds better than the clowns running DoJ now — the ones Gonzales brought in. (Yes, that tells you just how awful Main Justice is right now.) And Bush is never going to appoint anyone we like. (Movement conservatives like Richard Viguerie came out against Mukasey early on precisely because he was someone that many Democrats didn’t find utterly repulsive. Again, that should tell you something.)

So while Mukasey’s never going to be confused with Louis Brandeis, know that — sadly — he’s as good as we’re probably going to get out of the worst group of persons ever to occupy the White House.

i think that’s quite possiby the thinking… and for all i know they are right – i don’t have 20/20 foresight. but if so, i really resent being lied to. for me, that’s the worst – i so fucking hate the kabuki and bs. and given their track record of fuck ups, they have no right to claim they know so much better than we do that it’s ok to follow their own judgement and not even bother to communicate that with us.

so, we’re left to try to figure it out…. and we really don’t know… but there’s no way i’m buying bs stories that are contradicted by the evidence i have in front of me.

KayInMaine @ 111

Thanks Selise. That is his final speech before the vote, but I don’t see it in there. He had a ton of doubt in his voice as he made this speech. Is it possible he mumbled it and it didn’t get recorded? I don’t know, but I swear he made reference to the fact that he didn’t think he was going to be confirmed and was acting disappointed.

Maybe it was my own wishful thinking on Mukasey? LOL Hey, I was laying in bed half asleep, so it could very well be! ;-)

KayInMaine @ 112

I completely enjoyed Bernie Sander’s speech last night. It was angry, thoughtful, and right on the money about the King.

thanks for pointing out some of the highlights to me. i couldn’t listen last night – it was too depressing (not helped by the fact that earlier in the day i listened to the hjc hearing on torture with nance testifying on the details of waterboarding). now i’m going back and reading transcripts and listening to bits… safer that way (my laptop is less likely to meet the wall at a high velocity *g*).

I think Feinstein needs to be treated to lots of people with signs camped out on her front lawn.

now, it seems she wants immunity for the telcos…

Writing as a New Yorker from upstate, Mr. Schumer has lost my respect and support. I don’t think he’ll recover easily from this one. I fear Mr. Mukasey will prove himself to be quite dangerous to REAL America.

Valley Girl @ 24

AZ Matt @ 20

OKK,

From the last thread on the dissing of the Hispanic legislators, regular old racist crap. It goes on all the time in Indian Country and the bordertowns.

A friend’s son who is Yakima/Hopi/Navajo tried out for the Coconino HS basketball team in Flagstaff. He and 2 others boys, Navajos, where told by the coach to meet at the rec room at 3 pm. They are there and no one else shows. They go to the gym and the team is practicing. The coach tells them they are late so they are off of the team. They tell him that he told them to go to the rec room. He yells at them he did’t. Friend’s kid loses his temper and yells at the coach, then he gets suspended from school. The school didn’t notify his mother or the dorm folks about this. He looked at old yearbooks showing the basketball teams, no native kids. Pure racist bull.

Matt- this is in AZ-01, right?

They kids need to get the Native students to protest, and contact all the Democratic Congressional candidates: Ann Kirkpatrick, Howard Shanker and Mary Kim Titla. Shanker is a lawyer who has represented tribal interests, and Titla is a Native American TV host (though a bit conservative) who who have a hard time backing away from a well grounded case of discrimination.

she’s a corrupt politician! do a google on her husband.
OldCoastie @ 119

I think Feinstein needs to be treated to lots of people with signs camped out on her front lawn.

now, it seems she wants immunity for the telcos…

Here’s Bernie Sanders speech right before the Mukasey vote went down:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/…..?id=287178

He’s great!

A wonderful video.

What disgusts me is that I’m sure Schumer has convinced himself that he is acting bravely, rather than in fact, being a supine coward.

I called his office and told them that he could be running againt Typhoid Mary, but that I will never, ever, vote for him again.

Also, the cop’s complaint about this being an “unscheduled” protest is clasic.

what an inspiring video = THANK YOU Julie and Jane!

nxt election, Schumer is in for ’some shock and awe’ himself

Thanks so much for this. A great video. I was angry enough to call Reid’s office and he’s not my Senator. I just couldn’t believe that they pushed that vote through like that. I’m always nice on the phone with them but it’s not easy. By the way, the staff person didn’t know why the vote went through late at night etc…

Chuck Schumer Hearts Torturers and AIPAC.

Op. Cit: Bluetoe #32 (Ask an Israeli: Never Forget), and ProDem #40 (Schumer doesn’t care what we think; he’s out for A*P*C), and maunga in #75 (Chuckles and DiFi voted the A*P*C Whip) … RIGHT ON!

Charles Flippy Schumer is my alleged NY senator; and he’s listening to A*P*C Israelis more than meets the eyeball.

I told “my” senator Chuckles what a gem I think he is for supporting Duh-Oh Mukasey (Duh-oh, I dunno if waterboarding is torture, Seeeenyor Torquemada.)

I thanked sen. chuckles for reinforcing the meme: America as Torturers to the World.

I picked up one of the 1000 lousy outcomes of Senator Chuckie supporting low-ball Mukasey
as AG from Council for the National Interest, an A*P*C watch dog. My love note to Chuckie below. Chuckie needs an electile dysfunction. Ditto Corporate Ho DiFi.

Gosh, Thanks Senator Schumer.

Thanks for selling out all us normal Americans; thanks for selling out people tortured via waterboarding — in contrast to the vixen Mukasey, waterboarding is CLEARLY TORTURE — and other tortures used by this lawless and out-of-control administration.

Thanks, too, Chuck, for extending even more unitary (and fascist) executive privilege to Bush, Inc. — all for supporting an unworthy dissembler like Mike Mukasey to Atty Gen of the U.S. We all loooved your cut ‘n paste extract of other senators’ words (words prefacing why they would NEVER support Mukasey) to pretend they do support Poor Mikey.

Your ingenuous throwaway — well maybe Congress will pass a law on this definition/ban of waterboarding thing and maybe then Mukasey can open his mouth on it — is quite sad. We all know such legislation will be vetoed by The Sock Puppet in the WH. And even if he does not veto it, or if the veto is overridden, the dufus in chief will simply ignore it. After all, you are guaranteeing that Bush holds all power to do as he wishes. Please stop treating your constituents and US citizens as morons. We ain’t.

Here you go (below). You just helped traitors to the US walk away free; and you helped Condalizzard et. al. avoid yet another set of subpoenaes and another date with accountability. We just don’t know how to thank you enough, Senator Schumer. You’re a gem.
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AIPAC Espionage Trial May Subpoena Rice, Hadley, Abrams, Wolfowitz, Feith
November 6, 2007
From CNI Staff

The United States judge presiding over the AIPAC espionage trial involving Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, former senior staffers, has ruled that the prosecution may subpoena top U.S. officials, including Condoleezza Rice, Stephen Hadley, Richard Armitage, and top neocons Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Elliott Abrams. It is believed that their testimony, should they ever agree to testify, would negate the contention that the information collected by Rosen and Weissman and passed on to Israel would ever have endangered the interests of the United States.

As Grant Smith of the Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy points out in a recent email to his members and on his website, the subpoenas heighten the probability that the case will be dismissed altogether since the Bush administration has set a pattern of refusing to let its officials testify at congressional hearings. As Judge T.S. Ellis has already said, “The government’s refusal to comply with a subpoena in these circumstances may result in dismissal or lesser sanctions.”

Smith also believes that ***if Michael Mukasey is confirmed and sworn in as Attorney General, his record suggests that he will move to have the case abandoned.***

***The ruling has thus been depicted as a defeat for the prosecution.*** See the article by Nathan Guttman in the Forward.

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