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UPDATE: The FISA bill mark-up has been held over on motion by a Republican committee member. (Am working on specifics on this, as information is flying at me from several sides at the moment.) Mark-up is held over until next Thursday. They are, however doing opening statements, but there is a vote scheduled for 11:30 am ET on the Senate floor, so word is that they likely won’t finish them. (H/T to Prof. Foland for the initial tip from Sen. Kennedy’s staffer.)
In the meantime, the audio feed is still not working. Selise has been on hold trying to figure out what is going on for a while, and we’ll let you know if and when we get an answer. Will have something fresh up momentarily for everyone.
_________________________
The SJC FISA bill mark-up is set to begin around 10 am ET. The committee has a number of other items on their plate as well this morning, so it may be a bit before we get to the FISA discussion. As always, I’ll try to liveblog as accurately as I can. I could use your help, though: please try and keep comments to a minimum. The more I have to switch threads, the higher the possibility that I’ll miss a big chunk of the discussion for you guys. Thanks!
The photo at left is from the movie Oliver. In honor of the “Specter Compromise” which masks a convenient way for the Bush Administration and the telecoms to avoid liability without Arlen having to admit that is his purpose up front: “Please sir, I want some more.” The Leahy response in The Hill article wins a snark of the morning H/T:
Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) seemed skeptical when asked about Specter’s plan on Wednesday. “So we would have the taxpayers pay the cost of the Bush administration breaking the law? Interesting concept, I’ll look at it,” Leahy said.
Good one. I spoke this morning with a staffer at the SJC after C-Span was reporting that the FISA mark-up may be delayed. Here’s the scoop: any member may ask for a delay in the mark-up until next week, but as of yet, no member has actually asked for the delay. There have been rumblings to that effect, but nothing concrete as yet, so we’ll have to wait for the hearing to see if that occurs. Also, even if they do the FISA mark-up today, they will only be marking up Title I of the bill — they cannot get to the entire bill either way because they have a lot of other issues on their plate for today’s meeting. So, you know what I know at this point, and as soon as the hearing gets underway — so long as the audio stream holds out (H/T Selise) — I’ll update you further on proceedings.
UPDATE: While we are waiting for the feed to go live, The Seminal has a great piece on the absurdity of John Ashcroft as former AG turned telecom lobbyist writing an op-ed about the need for telecom immunity in the NYTimes. Some good stuff here.
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Good morning! Zed?
Arlen is the worst of the lot..playing the role of the reasonable Republican.
I am so loving your FISA tutorials, Christy! I feel “smarter” than I have in years, especially in current affairs. Big thanks to you and FDL!
And my second Zed this week, just to ice the cake!
I’m not getting any sound on the Dirksen audio feed — is anyone else getting anything?
Doesn’t every member of congress take an oath to “defend the constitution”?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
Ditto
wigwam @ 5
I believe Republicans take an oath to the President.
JF @ 7
And the Dems take an oath to do whatever the GOP is doing.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
I’m getting sounds, but they’re not pretty. Very high pitched whistle followed by a lot of other computer generated sounds like from every different connection or something. I would compare it to something out of “Twilight Zone.”
Arlen’s book “Passion for Truth” is listed at Amazon..50 new and used from $0.01
Couldn’t have said it better.
Ima @ 6
I’m not either. Just and endless “connecting…” message
Oh nice response from Leahy! We need to keep framing it that way, make sure that turd doesn’t get polished…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 4
The NSA must have cut the feed ;)
I was getting test tones earlier (deeply hated by the cats) – now it is silent but the realplayer is counting.
Are blanket warrants in the Senate version of the bill? The telco immunity provision is getting a lot of press, but I’m not seeing much on the blanket warrants. They are in the House version.
I’d hate for us to focus only on telco immunity and drop the ball on blanket warrants (which is even more scary, I think)…
Just an aside…
Bankruptcy Law Backfires on Banks as Foreclosures Offset Gains
Ann in AZ @ 9
Ouch!! I had to turn my computer off to make it stop.
No Audio here…
They really should delay the FISA bill as long as neccessary to produce a Rule of Law bill that We can all be proud of – they should use sites like FDL to educate the Voter base on the Spying and Torture issues – and Make Clear the Principles that are Guiding Them.
A Short-sighted FISA bill and Torture Confirmation Vote will come back to haunt them at the Polls.
If anybody really cares about Whitehouse, they’ll warn him off the career suicide move he’s about to make.
Giving away Our Rights is As Evil as Bush taking them away.
Per Specter:
Good citizens obey the law. They don’t invade people’s privacy, and they aren’t accessories to invasions of privacy.
Ima @ 6
there should be a tone until the meeting begins it’s much more comforting to be able to see the hearing room and know that the hearing hasn’t started). i’ve used these audio feeds in the past – haven’t found them to be as reliable as the normal c-span video feeds…. but i’m hoping it will work ok for this one.
i’ll give c-span a call again… just to make sure someone remembered to turn the damn thing on.
LIMBO Limbo Limbo-o!
Ima — yes, basket warrants are included in the Senate Intel bill as well. I know that the ACLU has been pushing against both telecom immunity AND the basket warrants — and when we’ve asked for calls, we’ve asked that people do the same for the last few weeks. So if folks are calling on the FISA bill — please mention that both issues are important, and that the rule of law ought to trump a unliateral executive demand. Period.
Ann in AZ @ 9
They have made a terrible mistake! They are Pod People and they forgot the sound feed is on and they are speaking in their native tongue!
I’m glad I haven’t tapped into the feed yet…they wont be after me now like they will YOU.
Praedor Atrebates @ 22
707!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 21
Christy…let’s say the (half) worst happens and though we may get immunity killed, the Senate STILL leaves basket case warrants in the bill and that bill becomes law. Isn’t that blatantly unconstitutional on its face and thus doomed for lawsuit hell? I mean, they passed the MCA and it has been challenged (with some success)…
UPDATED the post above: While we are waiting for the feed to go live, The Seminal has a great piece on the absurdity of John Ashcroft as former AG turned telecom lobbyist writing an op-ed about the need for telecom immunity in the NYTimes. Some good stuff here.
Paedor at 24 — Well, I would certainly argue that it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment and unconstitutional on its face. And I’d bet that the ACLU would as well. *g*
i’ll check on your
audio problem next, chs, but –
LIVE VIDEO LINK — REAL MEDIA
in the mean-time, the house judiciary
committee just gaveled in the following:
i’m on hold with c-span while they are trying to figurt out what’s going on…
Am still getting nothing on the audio feed other than the beginning where I got test tones and then it went silent. Anyone else getting audio of the hearing itself?
Nothing here in Indiana on the feed.
Thanks much, selise!
Maybe the audio link to the Dirkson Bldg hearing is a portal for DOJ to get inside all the fdl computers at the same time, eh? Weird enough noises. At least it isn’t the sound of crickets…
6 inches of wet snow overnight. Gonna rain and blow 75 knots this evening. Yuck!!!
Gotta go, but back this evening.
Keep fighting the Principled Fight, not the Gooper fight!
One of the Main Gooper Goals with both the FISA Bill and the Torture Confirmation Vote is to Dirty the Dems and attempt to level the (no) morality playing field ahead of ‘08.
Some of Our Dems are too compromised to do the right thing – Lieberman, Fienstein, Shumer and Nelson – we can change them out later, but let no one mistake these Clowns as Leaders.
And, let’s not let good Dems like Whitehouse make a really, really dumb mistake.
In the meantime, anyone get anything more definite than a maybe out of any of the Senators on the SJC that were still undecided?
Selise…word to the wise…
If Donald Southerland shows up on your front lawn while you are on hold waiting for C-SPAN to fix the “problem”(ie, Pod People in Congress speaking their native tongue by mistake on open broadcast), points at you through the window and screeches…
RUN!
No feed here.
Donald Sutherland…
Biodun @ 36
ooops
If they do delay the FISA mark-up for a week, I was thinking about getting a FAX campaign started. Just a simple FAX to say “Rule of Law, not presidential fiat.”
But I’m not certain that’s pithy enough — or useful enough. Any thoughts from folks on phrase and content would be most welcome.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
Warrants give immunity! (No “fix” required)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 38
Too indirect for the lead heads of Congress. It must be short, use simple, large-type words, and say what you mean with absolute clarity so it cannot be intentionally twisted to mean “vote FOR immunity and FOR basket warrants!”
For one Senator (FEINSTEIN) no amount of phonecalls, faxes, emails, etc, will catch her attention. Her office could be literally filled to the ceiling with angry faxes with more streaming in all the time and she would state that “I haven’t heard anything from my constituents indicating they were against immunity”.
“Big Brother is watching you”…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 33
still on hold.. actually they’ve tried to contact several people… ongoing
in the meantime – the hjc is hold in hearing on torture – with nance testifiying…. (i am not listening, but i am making an audio recording of that one). link.
A Kennedy staffer just told me that there has indeed been a hold placed on the immunity markup for one week.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
he he! or howza ’bout. . .
“FISA amendment mark-ups:
adhere to the constitution,
not the chimperor. . .”
lol… I don’t mean to be cynical or anything, but I’m still waiting for retribution for the ignored subpoenas.
What a joke this is. I don’t mean FDL or the efforts of the ppl here, but rather watching this travesty of a travesty that our nation is becoming.
Per the Senate’s web site:
hjc hearing video:
marine JAG col. couch has
failed to appear; thus the
empty chair — HE HAS
been ordered NOT to appear?!
what?!
DoD ordered it!
sh!t!
Christy, how about “uphold the Constitution, not the 21% party leader”
gagging col. couch is
an unconstitutional
A B O M I N A T I O N !
time for a phone-tree
to complain to the DoD!
wigwam @ 47
I understand that this was recently rewritten by TOVP to read “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support all diktats of Emperor George 1 without question”
nolo @ 47
OK…this boggles. The Defense Department has “authority” to blow off Congress? Has there, in fact, been a military coup? Sheesh. I’m military and, sorry, but the military does what the civilians in government TELL them to do. Period.
Now, though no one in Congress is in any way in the chain-of-command of the military, they ARE the superior element of government duly created by the Constitution. The DoD doesn’t exist in the Constitution. This pisses me off…but Congress will let it slide like they ALWAYS do. Confrontation makes them wet their Depends.
nolo @ 50
More on that.
on col. couch’s gagging:
the idea that he is talking to
the wall street journal, but
cannot testify before the HJC
is pure horsesh!t. . .
Professor Foland @ 43
people who are available at c-span can’t figure out what’s going on. i’m told there is someone who might be able to, but he is in a meeting. i left my phone number and they will call me back this morning if there is something to report.
called the sjc back and was told that the buisness meeting is in progress and that fisa is being discussed, but that he could not confirm if a vote was to be taken on it today.
i will continue to monitor the feed and let you know if the problem is corrected.
sorry, that’s all i can think of to do. …
not exactly transparent government. :(
Updated the post above. Have confirmed through three different sources that the FISA mark-up is held over to next Thursday.
bg @ 53
exactly — DING!
he was allowed to give
interviews to the papers
(the wsj) — but cannot be
trusted to testify before
the house judiciary committee?
holy doughnuts!
Kit Bond (R-Mo.), the vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee, called Specter’s plan “disastrous,” saying government secrets would be disclosed if lawsuits were allowed to proceed.
That makes three: Christy, Leahy and Bond.
Here’s the Specter feint: make the government the defendant, then use the tried-and-true stonewalling already established.
Question is, which one of the three didn’t get it?
b. @ 57
State Secrets! State Secrets!
The end.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 55
woo hoo!!!
thank you christy!!!
Praedor Atrebates @ 58
You know…I want a Constitutional Amendment that STRICTLY limits what can and cannot be classified and for how long, with NO interference from the Congress or Prez on either aspect. I am TIRED of secrets. No more Executive Privilege either except in VERY circumscribed cases. I mean, hell, there IS no Executive Privilege in the Constitution and a Prez (like Bush) can just keep extending it and extending that NON-existent “right” to include every burp or fart that the Prez or anyone on his/her staff emits.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 39
Does anybody have a good copy of the Constitution? One of those that looks like the original manuscript?
Just Fax in copies of that with most of it redacted with the black lines (ala Valerie Plame’s book).
It may be too subtle for them, but I think it makes a very strong symbolic statement.
I would fax the 4th Amendment, with the words related to specific warrants underlined and in bold, perhaps enlarged font.
Still no word on further indictments of Alaska pols in the wake of the conclusion of the Vic Kohring trial. The testimony in that trial indicated Ted Stevens’s son had been bribed about a quarter million dollars, and that Ted Stevens had accepted about $100,000 in “home improvements” he never paid for. That from the guy already convicted of paying those bribes.
No idea why DOJ is stalling, if stalling is what the operative dynamic now is in this case.
SufiLizard @ 61
How about simply faxing in the 4th amendment with “probable cause” and “warrants” underlined or emphasized? Then “NO IMMUNITY” and “NO BASKET WARRANTS”
Ok Praedor, you owe me a coke.
SufiLizard @ 62
here is a good image — just download,
mark it up — and fax it! great idea!
I’m going to be making Hugh’s Scroll today. It is Hugh’s List in 10-point helvetica type, taped one page under the next, with no top or bottom margins. It will be almost 56 feet long. I’ll take some pics and send ‘em to Siun.
Praedor Atrebates @ 64
@62…beat to the punch.
4th Amendment of the US Constitution:
I’ve put up a fresh thread for brainstorming…
OT — sorry, but I can’t tell whether this has already been noted:
House Judiciary Committee Files Report Seeking Contempt for Miers and Bolten
I think this is where Schumer demands his own quid pro quo of Mukasey, not unlike those that conservative groups meeting with Mukasey demanded.
Good morning dear friends.
call back from c-span:
there is a technical problem with the feed, and there is a tech working on it now. it may come up at any moment (or not).
very good response from c-span. hopefully there will be as good a response from the technician.
i let the c-span person who called me back know how much we appreciate and depend on c-span to inform ourselves of what our government is doing in our name. i meant every word… and i wonder how many people here at fdl would have been streaming the dirksen room 226 audio feed for this hearing if it had been working.
selise @ 55
Morning everyone. Thanks to all for putting together a readable thread from what sounds like a pretty fluid situation.
I was just listening to proceedings on Senate floor, and their sound system were going all static-y also. Even the senators couldn’t tell whose mike was working, or not – everyone’s feed seemed intermittent, with static over telly-feed. Telecom hissy-fit?
Steve-AR @ 2
Hasn’t he always been like that? At least that’s my earliest and most enduring memory of how he operates, and I’ve been around awhile…
CHS:
No need to explain the Oliver Twist reference, or any other pictures you post, even obscure or elusive allusions. That’s part of the fun.
Specter being Specter, his proposed legislation should be DOA. It would not replace private litigation against telcos with litigation against the executive branch because the EB would claim state secrets and move heaven and Darth Cheney to prevent suits moving forward.
Specter conveniently buries the lede, too. He sells litigation against the telcos as “wrong” when that’s half the story. By all accounts, they didn’t cooperate out of patriotism. It was GREED.
Telcos arguably have the most well-equiped law departments in America, on top of the best stable of outside lawyers and “consultants” that money can buy. They knew exactly how and why Bush’s demands for cooperation were illegal. They cooperated anyway because they wanted lucrative government contracts, merger approvals, and so on.
Billions were at stake, not to mention careers and deal-dependent mega-bonuses. What’s sticking a little shiv into the Constitution among friends, I ask you?
There was a report on NPR this morning about a former ATT employee who is a witness (whistleblower)in one of these suits. The guy said that 100% of all ATT internet traffic was routed into a room that was kept secured. I haven’t seen this reported anywhere else.
okay — very late to the party!
using the ACTUAL original image
of the fourth amendment makes great
theater, as well as visual stimuli!
so — here are two images to
fax on FISA mark-up — ideas
started here, in this thread,
but i’ll post ‘em above, as well.
feel free to take, modify, use
and enjoy — great inspiration, here!
p e a c e
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/us/07nsa.htmlNPR listener @ 79
It was reported in the New York Times yesterday.
Nolo @27: Thanks, Nolo. The Nance hearing on C-Span should be interesting. Nance is a bulldog and is prepared to fight anyone on the committee attacking his credibility.