me?

I get the zeduonfitzeroo?

Swopa!

perris @ 1

me?

I get the zeduonfitzeroo?

yaaayyy!!!

Swopa!!!

Typical Republican; throw money at the problem.

Swopa; excellent thread…not least, because you didn’t paint Bhutto as Mother Teresa.

She aint.

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

Swopa, you left out the part about “and we’re talking to the press about who we’re talking to behind the scenes.”

The military attaches may be “discreetly contacting senior Pakistani generals and asking them to press General Musharraf to back down” (emphasis added), but there’s nothing subtle about the sharing these discrete conversations with the press.

It’s the DOD version of saying to Musharraf “Nice office you’ve got here. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it.”

CTuttle @ 7

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

O…M…F…G!

And congress is still playing patty-cake over impeachment.

“I’m surrounded by a–holes!”
Rick Moranis as Dark Helmet

CTuttle @ 7

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

I should think both Bhutto and Musharref’s generals would like to be paid in Euros. A billion US doesn’t go as far as it used to.

Peterr @ 8

Swopa, you left out the part about “and we’re talking to the press about who we’re talking to behind the scenes.”

The military attaches may be “discreetly contacting senior Pakistani generals and asking them to press General Musharraf to back down” (emphasis added), but there’s nothing subtle about the sharing these discrete conversations with the press.

It’s the DOD version of saying to Musharraf “Nice office you’ve got here. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it.”

Dammit… I work hard at coming up with the most cynical angle possible, and in less than 15 minutes someone catches a facet I missed. :)

Woody Allen was right, the hardest part of being a cynic is keeping up.

but no money for S-CHIP

DeafByPills @ 10

CTuttle @ 7

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

Are you advocating shock and awe on Iran…? 8-(

Knut Wicksell @ 11

I should think both Bhutto and Musharref’s generals would like to be paid in Euros. A billion US doesn’t go as far as it used to.

If supermodels demand euros not dollars then why not generals? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7078612.stm

Bushie, you’re doing a heck of a job.

DeafByPills @ 10

CTuttle @ 7

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

Care to back that up with a credible link or two?

Bush is easy about giving away other people’s money. He never learned how hard it was to make a buck of his own.

CTuttle @ 14

DeafByPills @ 10

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

Are you advocating shock and awe on Iran…? 8-(

No, I’m not advocating anything. Israel has a history of striking nuclear facilities when it feels sufficiently threatened enough. They’ve saying they will not allow a nuclear Iran; if they have 3,000 centrifuges, they could potentially make a bomb within a year or two.

the US might not do something; but they’d probably help Israel pull something off.

this “aid” appears to be a form of walking-around money —

The real question is–who do you think is walking around with it?

I’m not a prosecutor, but I think if I were, every government contract that I heard of being paid in cash (whether garbage collection or highway construction or new plumbing) would trigger the question: was there a kickback?

It’s well known that Cheney approves of illegal covert activities funded by cash proceeds from other activities:

On the day of McFarlane’s resignation, Oliver North, a military aide to the NSC, proposed a new plan for selling arms to Iran. This time, there were two new ideas. Instead of selling arms through Israel, the sale was to be direct. Second, the proceeds from the sale would go to the Contras at a markup. Oliver North wanted a $15 million markup, while contracted Iranian arms broker Manucher Ghorbanifer added a 41% markup of his own. Other members of the NSC were in favor of North’s plan. John Poindexter authorized the plan, and it went into effect.

Cheney’s response, in the minority report on Iran Contra?

Judgments about the Iran-Contra Affair ultimately must rest upon one’s views about the proper roles of Congress and the President in foreign policy. … [T]hroughout the Nation’s history, Congress has accepted substantial exercises of Presidential power — in the conduct of diplomacy, the use of force and covert action — which had no basis in statute and only a general basis in the Constitution itself. … [M]uch of what President Reagan did in his actions toward Nicaragua and Iran were constitutionally protected exercises of inherent Presidential powers. … [T]he power of the purse … is not and was never intended to be a license for Congress to usurp Presidential powers and functions.
…
“During the country’s first century, Presidents used literally hundreds of secret agents at their own discretion. … The Presidents were simply using their inherent executive powers under Article II of the Constitution. For the Congresses that had accepted the overt presidential uses of military force summarized in the previous section, the use of Executive power for these kinds of covert activities raised no constitutional questions.

Ahmed Rashid in the Washington Post tells us that Pakistan policy is run out of Cheney’s desk.

If I were a muckraking reporter, I’d be looking into whether any of Musharraf’s cash made its way back into the control of OVP. Think Cheney would like to have “literally hundreds of secret agents at [his] own discretion”?

To confound a confusing situation further: there are sensitivities that both China and India have w/r/t any resolution that moves Pakistan one degree further to an Islamic state. Depending on who the general are to whom we are talking (and have been providing support) we may be exacerbating a situation that would lead to regional conflict by three nuclear powers.

Given that State and CIA both have very few South Asia specialists, and that Musharraf is one of Darth Cheney’s BFFs, I’m not very sanguine for a happy outcome.

Swopa @ 12

Peterr @ 8

Swopa, you left out the part about “and we’re talking to the press about who we’re talking to behind the scenes.”

The military attaches may be “discreetly contacting senior Pakistani generals and asking them to press General Musharraf to back down” (emphasis added), but there’s nothing subtle about the sharing these discrete conversations with the press.

It’s the DOD version of saying to Musharraf “Nice office you’ve got here. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it.”

Dammit… I work hard at coming up with the most cynical angle possible, and in less than 15 minutes someone catches a facet I missed. :)

Woody Allen was right, the hardest part of being a cynic is keeping up.

There’s just so much to be cynical about!

Any truth to the rumor that Cheney is actually a zombie?

{/snark}

Bob in HI

DeafByPills @ 10

CTuttle @ 7

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

BushCo knows how far away Iran is from being able to make nuclear weapons and so does the IAEA.

This pretext to attack Iran is a no go, except in Wingnut circles … neither America nor Israel
can stand any more ‘victories’ like they’ve had these past 4 years.

Swopa @ 12

Peterr @ 8

Swopa, you left out the part about “and we’re talking to the press about who we’re talking to behind the scenes.”

The military attaches may be “discreetly contacting senior Pakistani generals and asking them to press General Musharraf to back down” (emphasis added), but there’s nothing subtle about the sharing these discrete conversations with the press.

It’s the DOD version of saying to Musharraf “Nice office you’ve got here. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it.”

Dammit… I work hard at coming up with the most cynical angle possible, and in less than 15 minutes someone catches a facet I missed. :)

Woody Allen was right, the hardest part of being a cynic is keeping up.

You bring out the best in folks, Swopa. :)

Knut Wicksell @ 11

I should think both Bhutto and Musharref’s generals would like to be paid in Euros. A billion US doesn’t go as far as it used to.

O! This subprime mortgage crisis is killing us!

omg – kabuki was exactly the thought that went through my mind when nawaz sharif was not allowed to return but bhutto was (and cleared of all charges).

i hate how i see possibilities of manipulation in everything now-a-days.

Eureka Springs @ 16

DeafByPills @ 10

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

Care to back that up with a credible link or two?

Sure, here’s my source:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..827787.ece

Of course, I would like to see independent experts back up what these “US Experts” are saying about having enough material within a year with 3,000 centrifuges.

Even before President Ahmadinejad’s announcement, a US defence official told The Times yesterday: “Israel could do something when they get to around 3,000 working centrifuges. The Pentagon is minded to wait a little longer.” US experts say 3,000 machines running for long periods could make enough enriched uranium for an atomic bomb within a year.

Tehran says it plans to expand its enrichment programme to up to 54,000 centrifuges at Natanz in central Iran, which would amount to industrial-scale uranium enrichment.

If these are true, it does warrant some cause for concern, even if Iran maintains its intentions are for energy generation.

When the Pakistani ambassador was asked about the walking around money – he said we present itemized bills every month. Can those be foia’d?

DeafByPills @ 18

CTuttle @ 14

Are you advocating shock and awe on Iran…? 8-(

No, I’m not advocating anything. Israel has a history of striking nuclear facilities when it feels sufficiently threatened enough. They’ve saying they will not allow a nuclear Iran; if they have 3,000 centrifuges, they could potentially make a bomb within a year or two.

the US might not do something; but they’d probably help Israel pull something off.

I agree with you, on the analysis, all the more reason to call Darth Vader’s bluff, and, force our congress critters to head off an Iranian fiasco…

So if the U.S. is paying the generals and Bhutto’s listening only to the U.S. then this sounds to me like we’re greasing the skids on both sides of this confrontation…?

Yeah, tangled’s one word for it.

DeafByPills @ 10

CTuttle @ 7

Sorry, OT…

Darth Cheney is up to his old tricks again…

“A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.”

snip

…Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39978

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

I’d rather see the whole NIE. Cheney has a well-known history for favoring intelligence that supports his POV, and for disallowing all contrary evidence, no matter how credible. He’s done this before, with Iraq’s so-called WMD, with disasterous consequences, as well as with outing Valerie Plame. He is not to be trusted in national security matters because he has an obvious bias and will twist results to fit his own pet theories. His security clearance should be taken away, but of course unless he is impeached it won’t be. I would not take anything Cheney says at face value.

Bob in HI

Continuing to bribe Pakistani officials to follow our Zio-Zealot policies in the Middle East is a lost cause.

The Muslim population won’t allow it much longer.

DeafByPills @ 10

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

actually, “us experts say” is not anyone i trust. care to provide a link? thanks.

CTuttle @ 27

DeafByPills @ 18

No, I’m not advocating anything. Israel has a history of striking nuclear facilities when it feels sufficiently threatened enough. They’ve saying they will not allow a nuclear Iran; if they have 3,000 centrifuges, they could potentially make a bomb within a year or two.

the US might not do something; but they’d probably help Israel pull something off.

I agree with you, on the analysis, all the more reason to call Darth Vader’s bluff, and, force our congress critters to head off an Iranian fiasco…

Blame it on the people that just dismissed the impeachment bill the other day as “political grandstanding” and do not understand the importance of impeachment NOW. Instead, they’re placing their election concerns over that of the Constitution. Frustrating, really.

Death By Pills _ The NYT cites a US defence official told.. Perhaps the IAEA would be a bit more credible and less anonymous.

Also:

US Iran report branded dishonest

IAEA Says Congress Report on Iran’s Nuclear Capacity is Erroneous …

selise @ 30

DeafByPills @ 10

Actually, Cheney’s probably right here for once. Iran claims to have 3,000 centrifuges. US experts in that area have said they’ll have enough material to build a bomb within a year. Iran is aiming for 54,000 centrifuges. That’s massive industrial scale production.

Israel is going to make a move probably.

actually, “us experts say” is not anyone i trust. care to provide a link? thanks.

That’s why I posted it here. I was hoping someone could find something where credible, independent experts would agree with what the US Experts claim. I’ll keep looking. If it helps, I also heard a mention of it on CNN, Blitzer, but not sure what sources they’re using.

this is a time bomb waiting to explode………..and when it comes it will be a very long bang

Don’t tell TRex, but Amy Winehouse has been arrested.

Enlightening article, Swopa.

DeafByPills @ 25

Eureka Springs @ 16

Care to back that up with a credible link or two?

Sure, here’s my source:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..827787.ece

Of course, I would like to see independent experts back up what these “US Experts” are saying about having enough material within a year with 3,000 centrifuges.

Even before President Ahmadinejad’s announcement, a US defence official told The Times yesterday: “Israel could do something when they get to around 3,000 working centrifuges. The Pentagon is minded to wait a little longer.” US experts say 3,000 machines running for long periods could make enough enriched uranium for an atomic bomb within a year.

Tehran says it plans to expand its enrichment programme to up to 54,000 centrifuges at Natanz in central Iran, which would amount to industrial-scale uranium enrichment.

If these are true, it does warrant some cause for concern, even if Iran maintains its intentions are for energy generation.

In my humble opinion, I’m far more concerned about Pakistan’s perilous predicament and DPRK, than, the Persians acquiring fissile material… We’ve taken our eyes of the target once again…!

Bush = Oil
Cheney = Oil
Coni = Oil
Iraq = Oil
Iran = Oil
Pakistan = the means to the end all the way from the “beginning”.

This is not about nukes.

El-Baradei just said there is no evidence of the Iranians making a nuke.

Fool me once…my fault, fool me twice…still my fault.

LS @ 37

Bush = Oil
Cheney = Oil
Coni = Oil
Iraq = Oil
Iran = Oil
Pakistan = the means to the end all the way from the “beginning”.

This is not about nukes.

El-Baradei just said there is no evidence of the Iranians making a nuke.

Fool me once…my fault, fool me twice…still my fault.

“Condi”

DeafByPills -Please excuse my mistake with your name.

DeafByPills @ 25

Eureka Springs @ 16

Care to back that up with a credible link or two?

Sure, here’s my source:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..827787.ece

Of course, I would like to see independent experts back up what these “US Experts” are saying about having enough material within a year with 3,000 centrifuges.

Even before President Ahmadinejad’s announcement, a US defence official told The Times yesterday: “Israel could do something when they get to around 3,000 working centrifuges. The Pentagon is minded to wait a little longer.” US experts say 3,000 machines running for long periods could make enough enriched uranium for an atomic bomb within a year.

Tehran says it plans to expand its enrichment programme to up to 54,000 centrifuges at Natanz in central Iran, which would amount to industrial-scale uranium enrichment.

If these are true, it does warrant some cause for concern, even if Iran maintains its intentions are for energy generation.

So, are you claiming that (a) you know something that the people writing the NIE don’t know, or that (b) you have reason to evaluate your source differently (and apparently more highly) than the NIE?

Are you saying here that the NIE has a a bias and that you are better able to evaluate this source than they are? If so, what evidence do you have for this?

I’d say that we KNOW what Cheney’s bias is. I have no particular reason to expect the NIE to be biased– do you? I would guess that the NIE knows your source, and has evaluated it in comparison with the other evidence.

So are you saying that the people writing the NIE are incompetent, or biased? Let’s be clear here. We’re talking about national security.

Bob in HI

peanutbutter @ 28

So if the U.S. is paying the generals and Bhutto’s listening only to the U.S. then this sounds to me like we’re greasing the skids on both sides of this confrontation…?

Yeah, tangled’s one word for it.

It’s actually not quite as insane as it may appear; Iran does something similar with the Shiite factions in Iraq (funneling support to all sides even as they battle each other), with an apparently similar goal of keeping the conflict within certain parameters and ensuring their access/clout no matter how things wind up.

See selise’s comment @24 or thereabouts regarding a non-Bhutto opposition pol who got quickly bounced out of the picture. I didn’t have time to dig into it further, but I’m guessing Sharif didn’t send the right signals about playing ball with the Bushites.

Eureka Springs @ 34

Death By Pills _ The NYT cites a US defence official told.. Perhaps the IAEA would be a bit more credible and less anonymous.

Also:

US Iran report branded dishonest

IAEA Says Congress Report on Iran’s Nuclear Capacity is Erroneous …

Yeah, but that stuff is old. Iran just announced yesterday that they now have 3,000 centrifuges. Now, in the news blurbs, I also noticed this:

The International Atomic Energy Authority recently put the figure at closer to 2,000, with another 650 being tested. The IAEA said yesterday: “We will be publishing a report next week. We will not make any comment about this until then.” Javier Solana, the EU foreign policy chief, is shortly to report on Iran’s willingness to give up uranium enrichment in exchange for political and trade incentives.

They’re publishing a report soon. So Iran could have anywhere from 2,500 – 3,000 centrifuges up soon. That IS from the IAEA. That’s beside the point though, Iran has the right to research nuclear technology and use it for peaceful means.

When was the IPO?

50% of US troops’ supplies flow through Pakistan.
Pakistan airlifted thousands of Taliban to Pakistan (Tora Bora)
ISI/Pakistani General paid $100,000 to Atta via Riggs Bank (which was run by Bush’s uncle at the time)
ISI/Al Qaeda – means to get neocons’ public support to invade the Middle East – for oil.

Professor Foland said:

If I were a muckraking reporter, I’d be looking into whether any of Musharraf’s cash made its way back into the control of OVP. Think Cheney would like to have “literally hundreds of secret agents at [his] own discretion”?

I always have assumed that a merely assiduous investigator could make an impeachment-worthy case for graft against Cheney, at almost any time since at least 2002 or 2003. That’s one reason the thought of impeaching Bush (and getting Pres. Cheney) never really worried me.

That was in the days of my navet, before I learned that it’s who sets the table that counts.

bobschacht @ 42

DeafByPills @ 25

Sure, here’s my source:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..827787.ece

Of course, I would like to see independent experts back up what these “US Experts” are saying about having enough material within a year with 3,000 centrifuges.

If these are true, it does warrant some cause for concern, even if Iran maintains its intentions are for energy generation.

So, are you claiming that (a) you know something that the people writing the NIE don’t know, or that (b) you have reason to evaluate your source differently (and apparently more highly) than the NIE?

Are you saying here that the NIE has a a bias and that you are better able to evaluate this source than they are? If so, what evidence do you have for this?

I’d say that we KNOW what Cheney’s bias is. I have no particular reason to expect the NIE to be biased– do you? I would guess that the NIE knows your source, and has evaluated it in comparison with the other evidence.

So are you saying that the people writing the NIE are incompetent, or biased? Let’s be clear here. We’re talking about national security.

Bob in HI

No, I’m just saying that if Iran really does have 3,000 centrifuges up, and it’ll only take a year to get enough material to make a bomb — I can understand where Cheney’s coming from. I’m not claiming anything else otherwise, that’s just putting words in my mouth.

They’re trying to set up a situation that satisfies the neocon definition of democracy — elections of some sort are held, and the right people win (see US, Iraq…)

Then they’ll crow about how democratic it is, just like Bush has been calling Musharraf a democratically-elected leader all this time.

Slummy Joe made Atrios’ “Wanker of the Day”.

Redshift @ 49

They’re trying to set up a situation that satisfies the neocon definition of democracy — elections of some sort are held, and the right people win (see US, Iraq…)

Then they’ll crow about how democratic it is, just like Bush has been calling Musharraf a democratically-elected leader all this time.

the neo-cons love those purple fingers

It really is a big conspiracy, and it has been going on for well over 7 years.

DeafByPills @ 46

bobschacht @ 42

So, are you claiming that (a) you know something that the people writing the NIE don’t know, or that (b) you have reason to evaluate your source differently (and apparently more highly) than the NIE?

Are you saying here that the NIE has a a bias and that you are better able to evaluate this source than they are? If so, what evidence do you have for this?

I’d say that we KNOW what Cheney’s bias is. I have no particular reason to expect the NIE to be biased– do you? I would guess that the NIE knows your source, and has evaluated it in comparison with the other evidence.

So are you saying that the people writing the NIE are incompetent, or biased? Let’s be clear here. We’re talking about national security.

Bob in HI

No, I’m just saying that if Iran really does have 3,000 centrifuges up, and it’ll only take a year to get enough material to make a bomb — I can understand where Cheney’s coming from. I’m not claiming anything else otherwise, that’s just putting words in my mouth.

IAEA says it is not true.

Redshift @ 49

They’re trying to set up a situation that satisfies the neocon definition of democracy — elections of some sort are held, and the right people win (see US, Iraq…)

Then they’ll crow about how democratic it is, just like Bush has been calling Musharraf a democratically-elected leader all this time.

What American policy has been to countries in the ME, Africa, Central and South America is, give the locals a choice between worse or worst, like Limbaugh or O’Reilly. Anyone who threatens the American game plan is bought out or bumped off … in the case of Saddam … both …

Musharraf is to Pakistan is to the USA as Somoza was to Nicaragua was to USA.

It was said that Somoza is a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.

Here’s Musharraf in the same role in a different country, (though Pakistan – unlike Nicaragua – is a genuinely anti-American state).

US aid to Pakistan includes more than a billion dollars in CASH to Generals as walking around money.

…Honestly, I’m trying to wrap my mind around sending the cash and who knows how many billions in other “aid” to the country harboring OSAMA bin walkin’ around Laden…

and no SCHIP
no plan for crumbling infrastructure
no retirement for many of us
no health insurance for many working middle class Americans
no way to afford college
foreclosures every day, everywhere
and winter’s coming with oil at ninety something a barrel

LS @ 53

DeafByPills @ 46

No, I’m just saying that if Iran really does have 3,000 centrifuges up, and it’ll only take a year to get enough material to make a bomb — I can understand where Cheney’s coming from. I’m not claiming anything else otherwise, that’s just putting words in my mouth.

IAEA says it is not true.

CNN needs to say that, because what I just said was pretty much what Blitzer said on air. That’s pretty slick, trying to put in bits of misinformation like that to justify a future strike.

CNN, hyping that Israel might have to take “action”…

Impeach somebody before all of this blows up, because if it does, our country will be toast (politically and economically).

Do things seem out of control? Don’t fret. My party is coming to the rescue.

AP – Under pressure to support the troops but end the war, House Democrats said Thursday they would send President Bush $50 billion for combat operations on the condition that he begin withdrawing troops from Iraq.

this whole thing seems so staged. is martial law the new template for government?

remember back in September (2007), we heard Osama order the Islamic radicals to overthrow Pakistan’s (democratically elected) military dictatorship?

And no matter what happens, Bush will look (yes) even more incompetent.

DeafByPills @ 55

LS @ 53

IAEA says it is not true.

CNN needs to say that, because what I just said was pretty much what Blitzer said on air. That’s pretty slick, trying to put in bits of misinformation like that to justify a future strike.

That is exactly how we ended up in Iraq. Wolfy did his part, and he’s doing it again. They lie.

We could bring democracy to Pakistan tomorrow if we wanted to, just make it clear that the next billion is only going to arrive after the election, and voila! elections next week!

It’s just not fair to blame this all on Bush, though. The Democratic leaders, most especially Ms. Clinton and Ms. Pelosi, have gone out of their way to say we need to send more troops to Afghanistan, that Bush isn’t being warlike enough over there.

Well, all those supplies go through Pakistan. If the Pakistani people had anything to say about it, they would say they don’t like having their country used as a staging area for a war on their neighbor, and they would tell us to stop. So, no democracy for Pakistan, but it’s as much a Democratic policy as a Republican one.

DeafByPills @ 55

LS @ 53

IAEA says it is not true.

CNN needs to say that, because what I just said was pretty much what Blitzer said on air. That’s pretty slick, trying to put in bits of misinformation like that to justify a future strike.

Uhhhmmm…DBP? Where the heck have you _been_ the last few years? Why do you think so many of us are so unhappy with the MSM?

FunnyDiva

DeafByPills @ 48

No, I’m just saying that if Iran really does have 3,000 centrifuges up, and it’ll only take a year to get enough material to make a bomb — I can understand where Cheney’s coming from. I’m not claiming anything else otherwise, that’s just putting words in my mouth.

I think the point is that since previous “only a year” claims have proven blatantly dishonest, and the current ones come from anonymous “US experts,” there isn’t much weight behind that “if.”

We’ve already been lied into one war. The only rational position is “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 57

Do things seem out of control? Don’t fret. My party is coming to the rescue.

AP – Under pressure to support the troops but end the war, House Democrats said Thursday they would send President Bush $50 billion for combat operations on the condition that he begin withdrawing troops from Iraq.

OKK!
I was just wondering about you today.

FunnyD

I’m reading a little more into it. From my understanding, the “one year” figure is based on the assumption that they’re technologically further along than they actually are.

If the IAEA is the one actually there, and know what the real situation is, how come what they say isn’t reported? That’s messed up.

LS — my guess is it began under DCI Casey in 1985 (and maybe as early as 1978)

DeafByPills @ 66

I’m reading a little more into it. From my understanding, the “one year” figure is based on the assumption that they’re technologically further along than they actually are.

If the IAEA is the one actually there, and know what the real situation is, how come what they say isn’t reported? That’s messed up.

It is widely reported … just not on American channels …

I’m saying don’t worry. Look at the leadership Pelosi, Reid, Lieberman, Hoyer, Feinstein and above all HRC, Rahm, Harold Ford Jr., and Obama and the DLC, among others have provided.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 69

I’m saying don’t worry. Look at the leadership Pelosi, Reid, Lieberman, Hoyer, Feinstein and above all HRC, Rahm, Harold Ford Jr., and Obama and the DLC, among others have provided.

OKK gets the snark award tonight!

Wow. What a total distortion of information. If 3,000 centrifuges worked around the clock enriching uranium, they’d have enough MATERIAL for a bomb in a year. But they conveniently don’t mention that it could still take quite awhile to build a successful device. That’s misrepresenting the facts, isn’t it?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 69

I’m saying don’t worry. Look at the leadership Pelosi, Reid, Lieberman, Hoyer, Feinstein and above all HRC, Rahm, Harold Ford Jr., and Obama and the DLC, among others have provided.

Another MT. Dew, another wet screen.

peanutbutter @ 29

So if the U.S. is paying the generals and Bhutto’s listening only to the U.S. then this sounds to me like we’re greasing the skids on both sides of this confrontation…?

Yeah, tangled’s one word for it.

“Hedging our bets” would be another.

It’s no different than large corporate PACs giving money to both Republicans and Democrats: no matter who is in charge, you want to have access.

Funnydiva2002 @ 65

Oklahoma kiddo @ 57

Do things seem out of control? Don’t fret. My party is coming to the rescue.

Giving Dubya more money for GWOT is like giving a teenager another Ferrari after he’s wrecked three of them already. Don’t give Dubya any more money. Shut him down.

AP – Under pressure to support the troops but end the war, House Democrats said Thursday they would send President Bush $50 billion for combat operations on the condition that he begin withdrawing troops from Iraq.

OKK!
I was just wondering about you today.

FunnyD

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

LS @ 61

DeafByPills @ 55

CNN needs to say that, because what I just said was pretty much what Blitzer said on air. That’s pretty slick, trying to put in bits of misinformation like that to justify a future strike.

That is exactly how we ended up in Iraq. Wolfy did his part, and he’s doing it again. They lie.

LS, here’s the IAEA report(PDF file,8pages), it does mention 2,000 and a potential 600 more…

http://www.globalsecurity.org/…..060428.pdf

BlueMesa @ 70

Oklahoma kiddo @ 69

I’m saying don’t worry. Look at the leadership Pelosi, Reid, Lieberman, Hoyer, Feinstein and above all HRC, Rahm, Harold Ford Jr., and Obama and the DLC, among others have provided.

OKK gets the snark award tonight!

… not so fast, the Late Nite crowd deserve consideration … *g*

DeafByPills @ 64

I’m reading a little more into it. From my understanding, the “one year” figure is based on the assumption that they’re technologically further along than they actually are.

If the IAEA is the one actually there, and know what the real situation is, how come what they say isn’t reported? That’s messed up.

deafbypills… yeah that is messed up. and if some of us jumped all over your first comment, it’s only ‘cuz we’ve been yelling, screaming and finally analyzing and mocking how very messed up it is… for a few years (some for a longer time and some for less time – me, it’s been about 6 years).

my apologies and welcome.

x174 @ 75

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

and the reason we should listen to Israel on atomic weaponry enforcement is because…??

Petrocelli @ 77

BlueMesa @ 70

OKK gets the snark award tonight!

… not so fast, the Late Nite crowd deserve consideration … *g*

How about the afternoon award, then? ;-)

Swopa @ 42

peanutbutter @ 28

So if the U.S. is paying the generals and Bhutto’s listening only to the U.S. then this sounds to me like we’re greasing the skids on both sides of this confrontation…?

Yeah, tangled’s one word for it.

It’s actually not quite as insane as it may appear; Iran does something similar with the Shiite factions in Iraq (funneling support to all sides even as they battle each other), with an apparently similar goal of keeping the conflict within certain parameters and ensuring their access/clout no matter how things wind up.

See selise’s comment @24 or thereabouts regarding a non-Bhutto opposition pol who got quickly bounced out of the picture. I didn’t have time to dig into it further, but I’m guessing Sharif didn’t send the right signals about playing ball with the Bushites.

The Iranians are infinitely better at this sort of thing than we are. They consider Bush to be a simpleton. At the root of Persian political culture is something called “tarok”, IIRC. Bill Beeman, a linguist, is the expert on this. The meaning of tarok, IIRC, combines elements of etiquette, lying or “dissembling,” careful nuance, “white lies”, politeness, and deception. In fact, an international spy thriller could be written riffing on the Persian uses of tarok. A skillful user of tarok can do the linguistic equivalent of what Zorro could do with his rapier: Leave you thinking you’ve just won, only to look down and find your pants around your ankles. Or walking down the street with a tear in the back of your shirt that looks like a “Z”

The Pakistanis are up on this, too– but I don’t know Urdu well enough to know the cognate expression. But the Pakistani intelligence service, the ISI, is what really runs the show from behind the curtain. Bhutto might be a little rusty on her use of the Pakistani equivalent of Tarok, but Musharraf is probably immersed in it. Recall that when he talked about taking his uniform off, the person who would ascend to his military portfolio was the head of ISI.

To further the cultural smorgasbord of metaphors, there’s a lot of kabuki going on here that will have to be explained to George in words of one or two syllables. I don’t have any sources for good inside info on Pakistani politics; if anyone knows, please share.

Bob in HI

DeafByPills @ 69

Wow. What a total distortion of information. If 3,000 centrifuges worked around the clock enriching uranium, they’d have enough MATERIAL for a bomb in a year. But they conveniently don’t mention that it could still take quite awhile to build a successful device. That’s misrepresenting the facts, isn’t it?

If memory serves me right.. the earliest estimates place Iran at least five years away from having one bomb.

Petrocelli @ 77

BlueMesa @ 70

OKK gets the snark award tonight!

… not so fast, the Late Nite crowd deserve consideration … *g*

OK, maybe I’m being hasty. Let’s just say he has set a mighty high standard *g*

Elliott @ 79

x174 @ 75

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

and the reason we should listen to Israel on atomic weaponry enforcement is because…??

Because they’re not signatories to the NPT…?

selise @ 78

DeafByPills @ 64

I’m reading a little more into it. From my understanding, the “one year” figure is based on the assumption that they’re technologically further along than they actually are.

If the IAEA is the one actually there, and know what the real situation is, how come what they say isn’t reported? That’s messed up.

deafbypills… yeah that is messed up. and if some of us jumped all over your first comment, it’s only ‘cuz we’ve been yelling, screaming and finally analyzing and mocking how very messed up it is… for a few years (some for a longer time and some for less time – me, it’s been about 6 years).

my apologies and welcome.

Yeah. The way it was presented in the article, it made it seem like they’d have an actual working bomb in a year. It’s not like they made it clear that they were just referencing to the amount of material needed for an effective bomb.

CTuttle @ 80

Petrocelli @ 77

… not so fast, the Late Nite crowd deserve consideration … *g*

How about the afternoon award, then? ;-)

Um … isn’t that up to Lahoma ?!! *g*

A short clip about Pakistan, their ISI, and 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqkRCpOMUvI

burnspbesq @ 73

nice insight on the hedging;

i’d bet that no matter what, it’ll probably blow up in Cheney’s face anyway.

Yes, I wondered at first if DBP was a concern Troll (tho the name was a good moonbat name) but apparently not. Good Luck DBP.

Eureka Springs @ 81

DeafByPills @ 69

Wow. What a total distortion of information. If 3,000 centrifuges worked around the clock enriching uranium, they’d have enough MATERIAL for a bomb in a year. But they conveniently don’t mention that it could still take quite awhile to build a successful device. That’s misrepresenting the facts, isn’t it?

If memory serves me right.. the earliest estimates place Iran at least five years away from having one bomb.

Heck, not knowing anything more than what’s been reported, I’ll concede that Iran is trying to build a nuclear bomb. Who can blame them? They have a right to defend themselves like anybody else. Since when does building a nuclear bomb mean that we get to go attacking them? Does anyone think that Iran would use a nuclear bomb on the United States?

DeafByPills @ 64

I’m reading a little more into it. From my understanding, the “one year” figure is based on the assumption that they’re technologically further along than they actually are.

If the IAEA is the one actually there, and know what the real situation is, how come what they say isn’t reported? That’s messed up.

Welcome to the Reality-Based world, hon. MSM= Mainstream Media= bought-and-paid-for neocon propaganda clearinghouse. What the IAEA says isn’t reported because it does not support the perpetual war agenda of the Administration.

Hang around the Lake, it will be an eye-opener and a crash course in realpolitik. Front-pagers and commenters here are excellent, and the moderators do amazing work keeping this a place we can all discuss important issues. I find it works best, however, if one _asks_ for more information rather than making a blanket statement right off the bat (or right off CNN/MSNBC) and then being defensive when asked to support it. The standard of proof is pretty high here, as is the proportion of very well-informed commenters.

So, prickly as it is, I bid you welcome to the Lake and hope you’ll stay and get to know us better.

Best,
FunnyDiva

Well, it’s not like Iran can contract out to a third party for the actual manufacture of the bomb once they get the material.

Petrocelli @ 85

CTuttle @ 80

How about the afternoon award, then? ;-)

Um … isn’t that up to Lahoma ?!! *g*

But, of course!

Eureka Springs @ 79

DeafByPills @ 69

Wow. What a total distortion of information. If 3,000 centrifuges worked around the clock enriching uranium, they’d have enough MATERIAL for a bomb in a year. But they conveniently don’t mention that it could still take quite awhile to build a successful device. That’s misrepresenting the facts, isn’t it?

If memory serves me right.. the earliest estimates place Iran at least five years away from having one bomb.

too bad long time commenter prof. foland is not still around (he was in the threads earlier today)… he would, i bet, have all the latest at his finger tips. when prof. foland isn’t around, arms control wonk is the best place i’ve found for a good analysis.

DeafByPills @ 91

Well, it’s not like Iran can contract out to a third party for the actual manufacture of the bomb once they get the material.

They don’t have to make a stinkin’ bomb, they can just buy one…a lot less trouble.

DeafByPills @ 56

LS @ 53

IAEA says it is not true.

CNN needs to say that, because what I just said was pretty much what Blitzer said on air. That’s pretty slick, trying to put in bits of misinformation like that to justify a future strike.

If you are making your case based on what you’ve seen on TV news, you need to understand that most of what is broadcast is outright lies.

big difference between Israel and Pakistan on nukes– Israel can deliver them.

hard to imagine that one of the UN’s first acts was the creation of Israel.

peanutbutter @ 96

DeafByPills @ 56

CNN needs to say that, because what I just said was pretty much what Blitzer said on air. That’s pretty slick, trying to put in bits of misinformation like that to justify a future strike.

If you are making your case based on what you’ve seen on TV news, you need to understand that most of what is broadcast is outright lies.

Well, I kind of figured that out. Talk about twisting words around though!

DeafByPills @ 91

Well, it’s not like Iran can contract out to a third party for the actual manufacture of the bomb once they get the material.

As long as we monitor A.Q. Khan’s whereabouts…

DeafByPills @ 69

Wow. What a total distortion of information. If 3,000 centrifuges worked around the clock enriching uranium, they’d have enough MATERIAL for a bomb in a year. But they conveniently don’t mention that it could still take quite awhile to build a successful device. That’s misrepresenting the facts, isn’t it?

DeafByPills:
By Jove, I think you’ve got it! That first trip Through the Looking Glass is a doozy, innit?

Again, hope you’ll stay at the Lake.

Sorry I was prickly earlier, I’m afraid I’ve forgotten what it was like to realize just how twisted the MSM/Mighty Wurlitzer really is. It’s been brave of you to go through that “aha” process out in public with your comments. I didn’t realize that until now.

Best,
FunnyDiva

DeafByPills @ 97

peanutbutter @ 96

If you are making your case based on what you’ve seen on TV news, you need to understand that most of what is broadcast is outright lies.

Well, I kind of figured that out. Talk about twisting words around though!

Yup.

May I ask about the story behind your nome de plume?

x174 @ 96

big difference between Israel and Pakistan on nukes– Israel can deliver them.

hard to imagine that one of the UN’s first acts was the creation of Israel.

I beg to differ, Pakistan possesses approximately 24 ‘Bombs’, of which half, is assumed to be in deliverable packages, i.e. installed in ballistic missiles… I’ll look for a link…

x174 @ 73

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

What a transparently self-serving idea. How incredibly insulting. The man (and the team) are Nobel Peace Prize laureates, for heaven’s sake! Like they’d look the other way?? Like they’d do a half-assed job of monitoring?? Jeebus.

Love to see a link when you’ve got one.

Grrrrr.
FunnyDiva

CTuttle @ 101

x174 @ 96

big difference between Israel and Pakistan on nukes– Israel can deliver them.

hard to imagine that one of the UN’s first acts was the creation of Israel.

I beg to differ, Pakistan possesses approximately 24 ‘Bombs’, of which half, is assumed to be in deliverable packages, i.e. installed in ballistic missiles… I’ll look for a link…

Actually, I believe that those missles are targeted on India. It’s a very dangerous situation. I agree with one of the earlier commenters that Pakistan is and has always been much more significant than this absurd fixation on Iran.

DeafByPills – Is an old FDL visitor. (June 2006)

x174 @ 97

big difference between Israel and Pakistan on nukes– Israel can deliver them.

hard to imagine that one of the UN’s first acts was the creation of Israel.

You must have missed the nuclear bristling between India and Pakistan a few years ago — both of those countries not only have nukes, they also have viable delivery systems.

DeafByPills @ 82

selise @ 78

deafbypills… yeah that is messed up. and if some of us jumped all over your first comment, it’s only ‘cuz we’ve been yelling, screaming and finally analyzing and mocking how very messed up it is… for a few years (some for a longer time and some for less time – me, it’s been about 6 years).

my apologies and welcome.

Yeah. The way it was presented in the article, it made it seem like they’d have an actual working bomb in a year. It’s not like they made it clear that they were just referencing to the amount of material needed for an effective bomb.

actually, my understanding is that building a uranium based nuke is not so hard (compared to plutonium)…

this series is a year old, but it gives lots of good detail about what is required for iran to build a bomb.

i really don’t know the current status… but, there’s just no way i would believe anything from blitzer et al – ‘cuz i’m pretty sure they know less than i do. whenever i want to catch up, i go to prof. foland (who by the way will give lots of detailed info, references) or start reading other specialists (iaea counts because they’ve been right when cheney et al have been wrong) who study the matter and keep on top of developments.

Funnydiva2002 @ 100

DeafByPills @ 69

Wow. What a total distortion of information. If 3,000 centrifuges worked around the clock enriching uranium, they’d have enough MATERIAL for a bomb in a year. But they conveniently don’t mention that it could still take quite awhile to build a successful device. That’s misrepresenting the facts, isn’t it?

DeafByPills:
By Jove, I think you’ve got it! That first trip Through the Looking Glass is a doozy, innit?

Again, hope you’ll stay at the Lake.

Sorry I was prickly earlier, I’m afraid I’ve forgotten what it was like to realize just how twisted the MSM/Mighty Wurlitzer really is. It’s been brave of you to go through that “aha” process out in public with your comments. I didn’t realize that until now.

Best,
FunnyDiva

Well, I’m not *that* new. I lurk and read mostly. I rarely ever post because I lack the ability to write as eloquently as the rest of you guys.

New post upstairs

peanutbutter @ 101

DeafByPills @ 97

Well, I kind of figured that out. Talk about twisting words around though!

Yup.

May I ask about the story behind your nome de plume?

I had spinal menagitis when I was around 9 or 10 months old. I was one of the first cases where doctors figured out how to treat it I guess. They overdosed on the antibiotics (granted, it was probably in liquid form), and I lost my hearing. So it’s just a twist on words. :)

BlueMesa @ 104

CTuttle @ 101

I beg to differ, Pakistan possesses approximately 24 ‘Bombs’, of which half, is assumed to be in deliverable packages, i.e. installed in ballistic missiles… I’ll look for a link…

Actually, I believe that those missles are targeted on India. It’s a very dangerous situation. I agree with one of the earlier commenters that Pakistan is and has always been much more significant than this absurd fixation on Iran.

I did mention it earlier, too… Here’s an old report on Pakistan’s delivery systems…

http://www.globalsecurity.org/…..irna01.htm

LS @ 86

A short clip about Pakistan, their ISI, and 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqkRCpOMUvI

Good one! Shows how “Byzantine” some of these things can get.

Bob in HI

DeafByPills @ 107

Funnydiva2002 @ 100

DeafByPills:
By Jove, I think you’ve got it! That first trip Through the Looking Glass is a doozy, innit?

Again, hope you’ll stay at the Lake.

Sorry I was prickly earlier, I’m afraid I’ve forgotten what it was like to realize just how twisted the MSM/Mighty Wurlitzer really is. It’s been brave of you to go through that “aha” process out in public with your comments. I didn’t realize that until now.

Best,
FunnyDiva

Well, I’m not *that* new. I lurk and read mostly. I rarely ever post because I lack the ability to write as eloquently as the rest of you guys.

Ah! My mistake. Sounds like you’ve been bearing with us for quite awhile. I’m glad. Hope you’ll de-lurk more often, then. I think FDLers are pretty dang good at valuing comments regardless of the level of eloquence.

See you upstairs.

FunnyD

DeafByPills @ 108

Well, I’m not *that* new. I lurk and read mostly. I rarely ever post because I lack the ability to write as eloquently as the rest of you guys.

i can’t seem to use the shift key (and my spelling and grammar are atrocious)… but i’d rather show my weaknesses than miss out on the education i get here.

it’s not a competition… we all come as we are.

DeafByPills @ 109

peanutbutter @ 101

Yup.

May I ask about the story behind your nome de plume?

I had spinal menagitis when I was around 9 or 10 months old. I was one of the first cases where doctors figured out how to treat it I guess. They overdosed on the antibiotics (granted, it was probably in liquid form), and I lost my hearing. So it’s just a twist on words. :)

Got it. Dunno, that still happens today (the treatment causing deafness). Doctors don’t seem to have figured out a way around it yet.

DeafByPills @ 109

peanutbutter @ 101

Yup.

May I ask about the story behind your nome de plume?

I had spinal menagitis when I was around 9 or 10 months old. I was one of the first cases where doctors figured out how to treat it I guess. They overdosed on the antibiotics (granted, it was probably in liquid form), and I lost my hearing. So it’s just a twist on words. :)

A blessing in disguise… Did it cause further havoc, besides your hearing? If you don’t mind me asking? *g*

CTuttle @ 115

DeafByPills @ 109

I had spinal menagitis when I was around 9 or 10 months old. I was one of the first cases where doctors figured out how to treat it I guess. They overdosed on the antibiotics (granted, it was probably in liquid form), and I lost my hearing. So it’s just a twist on words. :)

A blessing in disguise… Did it cause further havoc, besides your hearing? If you don’t mind me asking? *g*

No, it was just limited to my hearing mostly. Without hearing aids, I can’t hear anything. I shouldn’t even be able to talk, but somehow I can despite the severity of the loss.

Funnydiva2002 @ 103

x174 @ 73

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

What a transparently self-serving idea. How incredibly insulting. The man (and the team) are Nobel Peace Prize laureates, for heaven’s sake! Like they’d look the other way?? Like they’d do a half-assed job of monitoring?? Jeebus.

Love to see a link when you’ve got one.

Grrrrr.
FunnyDiva

I seem to recall that this kind of attack on El Baradei, though not necessarily from Israel, happened in the run-up to Iraq as well, more like in late 2001 to 2002. I think after the Bush people saw that they would be able to run over everyone in a line position, they just let it drop.

well, i stand corrected CTuttle et al.

Googling Pakistani nuclear forces, 2006,
[http://www.sipri.org/contents/expcon/Pakistan.pdf], i found that the Shaheen and Ghauri (Hatf series) have ranges of 2500 km (though i didn’t see any payloads given).

At http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/israel.htm

they report missile delivery systems with 1500 km and 500 kg payloads for Israel, though i would question the accuracy of the published numbers.

There is also a Forbes article which describes a 2000 km range Shaheen: “Pakistan test fires long-range nuclear capable missile”

Heavy.

x174 @ 75

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

What restraint. Expected it during the great Iraq WMD hunt.

SunnyNobility @ 119

x174 @ 75

just now heard that Israel is calling for El Baradei to be removed from the IAEA.

What restraint. Expected it during the great Iraq WMD hunt.

Heh! See Prostratedragon at #117

FunnyD

For george bush, the “Do Iran!” train left the station a good while ago. Aint gonna happen.

One JDAM dropped on them will mean the end of life as we know it. That is, oil will almost certainly go to at LEAST $150 ppb;

Which will quickly be reflected in the stock market, and in everything that has anything to do with the price of oil. Which is, basically…everything. :o)

Our military will get to find out how the Iraqi Shia will react to bush bombing the Iranian Shia…

Those 5,000-odd brits behind the wire at the Basra Airport get to find out, too…

The republicans running for office in 2008 (and, Sen. Clinton, anyone else who has unapologetically supported the invasion of Iraq)
will get to explain $5 a gallon gas (If they’re lucky) to the voters next November.

Since the Iranians, according to our own CIA, got their hands on a few dozen of those Stinger missiles that raised such havoc with Russian helicopters and aircraft in Afghanistan, it’s a safe bet to say that, with the help of the Russians, they’ve cobbled up some pretty good upgrades, and if those start coming into Iraq, the price of air support poker will go through the roof, for Centcom…

Any country which supports the attack will find out if the Iranian missles are any good, AND will have to deal with Iran long after the bush presidential library has been established in Mooseturd, Alaska.

Our navy will get to find out how well those 225 mph Russian torpedoes work.

The rest of the world, already sick of this bloody, chaotic, useless war, and in no mood to “support” it by dealing with the worldwide increase in oil prices; will, economically speaking, fall on us like a ton of bricks. Sanctions can work both ways.

I’m not worried about Israel, either. The Iranians have repeatedly said that if they’re attacked by Israel, they will consider it an attack by the United States. And why not? They wouldn’t do it without junior’s permission.

And HOW would they get there? The Turks are concluding some SERIOUS energy deals with Teheran. Those will come to a screeching halt if Ankara is crazy enough to permit Israeli overflights.

If the Kurds are that nuts, those Peshmerga units masquerading as “the Iraqi army” in and around Baghdad, will be annihilated by Sadr’s militias. Inevitably, the Sunnis will get into it, and the Smilodon will be completely out of the bag.

Saudi Arabia? (I giggle…)

That leaves…taaadaaa…directly over Iraq, and won’t it be interesting if Iraqi airspace is used to attack Iran?

THAT could bring the Maliki government out from under their desks in the green zone, instanter.
It will also mean that SCIRI, or what used to be SCIRI, and Fadhila, and the Mehdis of Al Sadr, will have one hell of a common- denominator incentive to lay aside their differences and make bush pay, pay, pay…and Iran will no longer be the least bit reticent about giving them the hardware with which to do it.

But I think the biggest cattle-prod poised 1 inch from bush’s ass, is our own pentagon. They will have to pay the immediate price for another round of insanity, and not very many of them are stupid enough to
want to take this huge risk, in order to gin up gigantic fuckup #2, for bush to enfold gigantic fuckup #1 in it. They know perfectly well that their main duty in Iraq now, is trying to cover george bush and the GOP’s asses to give them time to hand the flaming ebola-turd to the democrats and get out of Dodge.

I don’t believe they want to take on another war, on top of that.

I gather there are two major parties, neither really distinguishable from the other. None of the myriad parties has a manifesto anyone is likely to act upon. The needs of the majority are left unmet regardless of who’s in power. The leadership seems to alternate between party leaders and leaders of the military establishment. Anyone with leftist sensibilities doesn’t stand a chance of being noticed within any of the parties.

It’s sort of like the U.S., but not quite as bad, politically speaking.

Like Musharraf, Bush (& Cheney) think that they get to do anything because they are “President.”

IMPEACHMENT is increasingly important, starting with the Dark Lord Cheney… We can’t let them turn our country into a Pakistan-like “democracy.”