(Clock image by simpologist.)
One of the more interesting phenomena of the past few months has been watching the unheralded rise of Ron Paul among those Republicans and libertarians who are OK with most of the current de facto GOP platform (especially that bit of catering to bigotry known as "the Southern Strategy") but want out of Iraq. These people, who used to be comfy with the racist and anti-Semitic isolationist Pat Buchanan, have now latched onto Ron Paul and are trying to get him elected president.
Ron Paul is touted as being very "pro-Constitution" and "pro-states' rights". Except that he isn't -- at least, not where religion, family planning and marriage are concerned (emphases mine):
According to Ron Paul himself (via Brent Rasmussen)
Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few.
It should be noted right at the beginning that Ron Paul consistently decries "secularism" and "secularists," though he more often uses the label "secular Left." This, perhaps more than many of his arguments, makes it clear where stands: squarely and unambiguously against a secular government, secular laws, and a secular America. This helps put him in the same camp as the extremist Christian Right.
The second thing to note is that there isn't a single word in the above that's true. Ron Paul is employing a falsehood which has been very popular with theocrats of the Christian Right who seek to deceive voters about what secularism is and what the separation of church & state is all about. Ron Paul has either been duped by those deceivers, or he knows better yet is actively participating in the deception.
No one has launched any court cases seeking to drive religion "from public view." There have been no organized efforts to prevent people from promoting religion in public, from having religious images on their front lawns, or engaging in religious evangelism in the community. What's actually been happening is that people have tried to stop the "public," which is to say public funds and institutions, from promoting, supporting, or endorsing the religion of just some of the citizens. Usually those offering dishonest claims about this rely upon ambiguity in the word "public" (in public view vs. publicly funded), but Ron Paul doesn't even do this — his is an unambiguously false claim.
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Hi PW
Phoenix Woman!!!
Singles?
Bravo, PW!
And he raised $4M in one day? I think I heard that.
Somebody is really pushing for him hard, he raised what, 4 million bucks in one day?
I love the smell of desperate Republicans in the evening.
Saw this little gem on Ron Paul today too:
Hi, PW! Always good to see you.
Don’t you think most folks supporting him are hanging that support on his anti-Iraq stand?
of course, that supports the point of your post, that most people don’t know about the rest of his views.
Editor of The Village Voice is ripping Ghouliani apart on KO!!
Evening, PW!
I am glad you posted this. I have been seeing way to many positive comments about Ron Paul on Lefty Blogs. I have to assume it is a result of lack of curiosity and laziness. The info about this man is easily obtainable.
He is your man if you believe in Social Darwinism, that public education should be abolished, and you are nativist, racist and anti-Semitic. That just for starters.
Ron Paul with his antiwar stand is the most dangerous Presidential Candidate to the Left. I see his signs all over Seattle and he has more signs than any possibly all the GOP and Dem candidates together.
He could pull away many of our 70%ers. Only Bush’s pride is stopping him from getting actual 30%er votes.
His third party candidacy could hurt us too!
Nanny-boo-boo, I threw a snowball… 8-)
Bustednuckles @ 8
The only stand I think any of us agree with Paul on is the war. He serves only one other good purpose, to make the other Rethuglicans crap their pants. To make chaos out of the Rethuglican primary because the Daddy party can’t stand chaos. Hopefully he’ll help along the implosion of the Rethuglican party. I hope everyone else figures that out.
Ron Pauls idea of individual liberty is Gunsmoke.
TexBetsy @ 9
Keep harping on this topic Seattle voter ignorance of his postions might be nationwide. Ignorance of the Presidential Candidates take on the issues is our biggest enemy.
PW - Are folks like Scaife supporting Paul financially?
Eureka Springs @ 16
Ole West Justice…
I like Ron Paul’s views on Iraq. But there are no Republicans, including Paul, I would vote for. In 39 years of voting I have voted the straight Demo ticket everytime. And God help me, if HRC is the nominee, I’ll vote for her. But the Senator is a huge disappontment.
Things Come Undone @ 13
His candidacy just adds more to the theory that most people don’t look at positions all that much. Just look at how many people believe Hillary is the most liberal candidate in the race.
The point about how he uses secularism is well noted. But your assertion about Roe and states rights could use some clarity. The issue of RvW’s constitutionality seems to me to be a separate issue of whether or not it’s good to defend such a right. I’m not suggesting that we just trust the guy either. But as a liberal and libertarian I’m not yet convinced that this guy would be worse than the dem front runners. I’m willing to be convinced too… but not without sufficient reason that dems will protect the constitution.
Greenwald, otoh, says:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g.....index.html
which is why the accomplishments of his candidacy are so exciting. Ron Paul and Kuchinich should team up and run on an independent ticket - so for once there would be a real choice for voters, rather than just a (D) neo-con vs. an (R) neo-con.
The absolutely hysterical part of this is my Dads name is Ron Paul.
CTuttle @ 19
He doesn’t look anything like James Arness. ;-)
Eureka Springs @ 18
Actually, it’s the conservative netroots, not astroturf, either…!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
I slipped and voted Green a couple of times…
(((((((PW!)))))))
Goopers don’t hold well thought-out beliefs - they identify with symbols. They treat themselves like NASCAR vehicles and plaster themselves with ‘badges’ of identity.
They can’t really explain anything sensibly, but they’ll fight if they think someone is making fun of them for being stupid.
They want so badly to ‘belong’ that they’ll sign-up for Torture Jokes, Racist Code Words, Chortle at Rush and O’Reilly, cheer for Coulter’s Arrogance, and put W stickers on their cars.
Just don’t ask them why. They don’t know.
“Just look at how many people believe Hillary is the most liberal candidate in the race.”
Pretty sad.
I think there is a good chance that Ron Paul represents the future of the Republican Party. When the economy goes into the shitter, and the “restraining “influence of the Plutocrats is removed; what is left is a Ron Paul Republican. If that message is covered with a shell of economic populism; watch out.
CTuttle @ 27
We (lahoma and me) won’t hold it against you ;0)
I hope the mods are ready..A less than positive Ron Paul thread attracts the wackos like flies on shit.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 21
The MSM is responsible for Hilary’s false Lefty cred just as they are responsible for Ron Paul getting a pass on racism.
Perhaps Hillary will make a good president.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 31
I left a question in EPU land…
sporkovat @ 23
Excuse me.. Kucinich is not a racist for starters.. One doesn’t need to be a fan of Kucinich to point out the your statement is egregious in its implied insinuations about Kucinich. Please read up on him and reconsider you positions.
Hey, everyone! Sorry I’m late — the refresh wasn’t refreshing for me.
How is everyone this fine Wednesday evening?
Eureka Springs @ 36
The one thing I’m enjoying this cycle is the mass exodus from the center to the fringes…! 8-)
I think that this is an election where people will pay more attention to the big issues end the war, healthcare etc which will hurt Hilary. Ron Paul is on the right side of that issue but the media is giving him a pass on racism.
Which means he could steal our 70%ers! We need to harp on this! Why doesn’t the media ask him those embarrassing questions about racism?
Are they on the payroll?
if i had made not voting for a bigot an absolute requirement… i wonder how many votes i’d have to take back.
no excuses for for anything ron paul has actually done or said (and quite frankly i’m confused as to what he’s actually said and done vs. what some of his supporters have said and done)… but it looks to me like a different standard is being applied to paul. i don’t get it.
What are the specific, I said specific, qualities we are looking for in a president?
Which is, of course, why so many conservatives are flocking to him.
buncha flockin’ lemmings
If handled right, Ron Paul could be useful in two ways: a) to throw the Repug contest into chaos,and b) to maybe give the Dems some cover for being anti-war. However, the Democrats never play things right, so it will likely turn out bad for them. As usual.
Phoenix Woman, Thanks for the post. Because Paul wants out of Iraq immediately some are blinded by his intolorant positions.
Radiofreewill is on a tear this evening!
Sheesh Lou ‘The Beaners are Comin’ Dobbs and now Ron ‘Shoot the IRS’ Paul on the site!
Yer gonna need a pressure washer to blow off all the slime!
CTuttle @ 35
Except for bridge, kiddo is the only one I play games with. ;0)
lahoma
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
Honesty and integrity, would be nice… Parsing the definition of ‘is’ is not high on my list…
CTuttle @ 47
Ability to speak in complete sentences.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 47
Spades? ;-)
selise @ 40
selise..David Neiwert has a post today at Orcinus
that talks about Ron Paul. David has been looking at Paul for quite awhile and at the end of the current thread he has links. Read David and the decide. I think David has a good track record of exposing “hate” and I don’t think he attacks people for no reason.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
She cares about America and Americans deeply.
Whooie. Keith gets to break the news about Rosie O’Donnell and MSNBC! After the commercial.
Eureka Springs @ 36
your misunderstandings are significant. The two would make a great independent ticket because they are opposed to imperialist militarism … which none of the other candidates, except Mike Gravel are.
If Ron Paul teams up on a ticket with George Ringo, he may be unbeatable. That’s how dumb people are…
Ron Paul has this statement on his official RP2008 website on the issues page:
Dang, KO was feeding us a teaser about Rosie! Replace F*cker? Puh-lease… ;-)
Loo Hoo. @ 52
Perhaps you are right. ;0)
Ed*ard Teller @ 55
He also has a very loud dog whistle.
CTuttle @ 35
I left something for y’all downstairs, too.
Bob in HI
mroom @ 55
How’s he feel about birth control pills? If Bush nominated Ron Paul for Health and human services, we’d all be calling our Senators to block the nomination.
Hi Loo Hoo!
The abomination of Torture never goes away. Each new ‘break-out’ in Civilizations just adds to the lore of Man’s Evil Actions Towards His Fellow Man.
People don’t forget about it. Torture defines those who sponsor it. The votes of the Goopers and their surrogates will be cast for all to see for all time.
We should make it a Goal to oust anyone who votes for it by 2012 - whether we can get them to Court, or not - supporting Torture is not how We want the World to know US.
Let the Goopers and our Dem Goopers go down with Bush.
I guarantee that any opponent running against a Gooper will have a Silver Election Bullet if that Gooper votes for Torture.
Loo Hoo. @ 52
Loo Hoo have you been reading eriposte at the Left Coaster?
TvNewser rumored yesterday that the axe could fall on Fucker Tarlson at any moment.
Paul won’t be the candidate- most goopers support the war.
I have much to learn but I understand.. They are polar opposites on what government should do..
Kucinich is for:
Government support of unions and strong labor
Education through collage for all
Universal/single payer type health care
Womans rights
Civil rights regardless of race or sexual orientation.
Ron Paul is not for any of the above..
Perhaps they could work together on defense issues but I suspect much of their compatibility ends there.
No Rosie on MSNBC. I’ve never heard her or seen her on TV, so no opinion here.
bobschacht @ 60
Bob, I couldn’t find it…
radiofreewill @ 62…Should I re-post the US Law dealing with torture? The irony is, as good Thugs, they included a death penalty.
smapdi @ 64
The sooner, the better…
No, Steve, I will. I see The Left Coaster is on Jane’s blogroll.
A.Citizen @ 46
Think of it as the Flypaper Theory. (Remember when the PNAC Platoon pitched that thing? It was a GOOD thing, they said, that so many folks from outside Iraq were going to Iraq to fight our troops — as if there were a finite number of terrorists and that our actions hadn’t been the biggest terrorist-incubator imaginable.)
Steve-AR @ 69
That they did! Divine retribution…?
Prince the Bronze for suing his fan sites for posting his likeness without paying.
Rust Limpballs the Silver for admitting his producers told him not to mock and criticize the young person who testified on Global Warming.
Brit Hume WPITW for spinning how the flights from Syria to Iraq are fuller so that means things are better in Iraq, not that the refugees have been sent back to Iraq.
sporkovat @ 54
They might agree on the war (though likely for different reasons) but they would agree on nothing, and I do mean nothing, else. They would want to kill each other if left alone in the same room for more than 15 minutes.
For Bob in HI (once more i think). Aloha.
lahoma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU_hwOD61_w
by harry owens. 1934.
Steve-AR @ 50
well, i wasn’t claiming that paul isn’t a racist.. only that i think a different standard is being used to judge him here.
but if you want to change the subject to what has been posted at ornicus… i haven’t read today’s post yet, but i think i’ve read everything else david has written on paul, and i don’t think the paul’s been shown to be any more of a bigot than most politicians. it mostly seems to me to be a condemnation by association… (which you will see if you read the comments at orcinus - since my comments are there for the world to see). maybe today’s post is different.
and p.s. i don’t condemn anyone because a trusted writer attacks them. i look at the evidence they present and evaluate it for myself.
smapdi @ 64
That is Great News! The MSM is lossing the abilty to carry Wingers with no ratings.
30% is not a big enough audience for advertisers.
Loo Hoo. @ 71
link
linklink
link
Here are a few links to get you started.
Okay, just for the sake of arguement.
The popular perception of Ron Paul from the MSM is that he is pro-constitution and anti-Iraq war. While the rest may be true, it is pushed back, so many Paul supporters likely support him for just those two reasons. And these supporters are probably members of the GOP.
So if this stuff is polling so well within the ranks of the GOP, then it means these issues are winning issues. Not primary issues. But General Election issues. Maybe Nancy and Harry should take note.
selise @ 77
fair enough..I respect your opinion
…and all this time I thought we were talking about RuPaul
Phoenix Woman @ 72
Very well said, as per usual. Thanks for the post.
Steve-AR - You posted our own US War Crimes law in the earlier thread, which may play a part in BushCo being brought to Justice, but I really think we’ll see a multi-Country pleading before the World Court in the Hague, where Bush and Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld will be held accountable to Global Standards like the Geneva Conventions.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 76
Leilani is a popular name…
Here’s why I hurled a snowball… A Truckload appeared and we all had some fun… 8-)
http://www.hawaiitribune-heral.....ocal01.txt
punaise @ 82
Wiping coffee off the monitor.
Eriposte (Left Coaster):
Let’s recap. Sen. Clinton, contrary to portrayals that she wrote a completely unconditional “blank check”, actually voted to limit the Congressional war authorization to one year, supported tax increases to pay for war, and supported the creation of a report on possible manipulation of intelligence in the lead-up to the war - back in the 2002-2003 timeframe. Sen. Edwards voted against each of these measures. Now, this does not in any way justify Sen. Clinton’s other votes in favor of the Iraq resolution, but I usually see this context missing in the portrayals of Evil Republican DLC Hitlery Inc. Sen. Clinton - so I thought this should be mentioned.
Sen. Edwards subsequently admitted publicly that his vote on the 2002 Iraq resolution was wrong and took responsibility for the mistake:
Thanks again, Steve. I’ll keep up with this blog!
Fern @ 74
my bold.
oh for crying out loud. please watch this video.
i started the day being too argumentative, and i’m afraid that i’m going to end the day that way too.
but would it be too much to ask that we not state as fact something for which we have no confirming evidence and disconfirming evidence can be found in 30 sec. of googling?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
1. Genuine lover and defender of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Rule of Law
2. Demonstrated record of fiscal responsibility (e.g., doesn’t bill grandchildren for grandiose schemes, knows how to set fiscal priorities: to each, according to his/her needs; from each, according to his/her ability to pay)
3. Effective peacemaker
4. Knows value of investing in people (e.g., education, wellness)
5. savvy environmentalist (e.g., understands global warming and how to deal with it)
6. promotes civic involvement in public affairs by ordinary citizens; free, fair and clean elections; and understands how to regulate lobbyists appropriately.
7. understands how to defend our country appropriately, without sacrificing civil rights, and due process.
And, with a bow to Molly Ivins, I shall refrain from further items, in order to keep the list as short and clear as possible.
Bob in HI
“For social and religious conservatives, the nomination and election of someone with Rudy Giuliani’s track record would represent a repudiation of their place in the party, regardless of how he shades his positions these days. It would also give a green light to “pro-choice,” pro-gun-control Republicans, as well as to those who might support domestic partnerships or civil unions for gays. Social conservatives would lose their grip on the party. To them, losing the 2008 presidential election to the Democrats might arguably be better than losing control of the GOP.
Several months ago, the chief executive officer of a major investment company explained his support for Giuliani by saying that he didn’t know whether the former mayor could win the nomination, but that Republicans needed to move their party in Giuliani’s direction. In some ways, Giuliani’s candidacy could become something of a proxy fight between secular Republicans, who see the GOP as needing to emphasize economic and foreign-policy issues, and religious Republicans, who see social and cultural issues as being of paramount importance.
In some ways, this fight has been inevitable ever since working-class and lower-middle-class conservative white voters abandoned the Democratic Party and migrated to the GOP. Their shift was partly a reaction to the Democratic Party’s stands on civil rights and the Vietnam War, but it also was in response “
Charlie Cook
We Dems may be too weak, at the moment, to mount effective opposition against Bush, but it’s better than going along sucking our thumbs like the the Goopers - they’re the ones that are truly weak - no moral compass whatsoever, eyes closed, just praying the teat keeps giving.
Ron Paul complains that: “religion must be driven from public view” - and blames this on the secular left.
I hate to break it to Ron Paul, but Jesus, born a Jew, is responsible for this: Jesus told people, “when you want to pray, go and pray in secret.”
Steve-AR @ 80 -
thanks.
btw, i share your fear of a right-wing populist movement - especially under conditions of stress (economic collapse, another terrorist attack,…). i just don’t think it’s limited to the R party (although that seems to me, by far, the most likely source).
Sorry OT
peanut butter if you’re around … ?
I found some links that might be helpful, they’re on the 1st NSA/ATT thread. Maybe it’s info you’re already aware of, but … who knows
Here
It’s really long (sorry) but important info if anyone cares to check it out
Off to a meeting
L8r
Dems are hatching a dream- of long term domination. They would like to shed the “soft of defense” label that has hurt them in the past- get the guns issue off the