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	<title>Comments on: The Greymail Defense Rides Again</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/</link>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1074085</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1074085</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Grey mail is gonna be increasingly used as a “get out of jail free” card since almost everything that this Administration in secret can be protected by having those brought to trail ask to see the dirt that is “classified” And with a compliant Administration intent on hiding those activities this is actually a very viable defense.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grey mail is gonna be increasingly used as a “get out of jail free” card since almost everything that this Administration in secret can be protected by having those brought to trail ask to see the dirt that is “classified” And with a compliant Administration intent on hiding those activities this is actually a very viable defense.</p>
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		<title>By: Tanbark</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1073633</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1073633</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;With bushCo, the DEFENDANTS walking, is an intrinsic part of the plan.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With bushCo, the DEFENDANTS walking, is an intrinsic part of the plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1073026</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1073026</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Keep in mind what is really at issue here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Abe Lowell ain’t stupid.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;His claim is that the officials subpoenaed gave the same kinds of info to his clients as Larry Franklin gave them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stop, digest, process. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gov has so far said, oh nonsense, Sec. of State Rice never said anything to the lobbyists involving national defense or national security.  They’ve said that in court, which is going to make it hard for “gov” in another guise to say something different later to invoke state secrets - on Rice at least.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So if those get invoked, in essence Gov will be admitting that yes, Rice et al DID give national defense info to the lobbyists.  But insta-declassification doesn’t work if things are then still blocked under the state secrets mantra.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s all setting up to be very interesting and Lowell has his particular clients in almost (not quite, but almost) a win-win.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the Rice testimony is blocked bc gov admits that going over her discussions will get into national security matters - then they pretty much admit that Lowell’s clients are correct, that other officials told them the same kinds of stuff as Franklin and how were they to know what they “could” or “couldn’t” hear and the question really becomes one of why Franklin was tried, but not Rice.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Rice does testify and Lowell has any good faith basis whatsoever (and I trust his good faith before Gov’s everywhichway lately) for the claims that Rice et al told his guys all kinds of stuff, it is going to both help his case that his crew couldn’t know, and, again, skewer the leakerloyals in Bushdom. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And at some point, we may end up learning who the other two admin officials in the indictment (for also leaking classified info to the lobbyists) but not charged are (some bets are that one is Satterfield.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind what is really at issue here.</p>
<p>Abe Lowell ain’t stupid.</p>
<p>His claim is that the officials subpoenaed gave the same kinds of info to his clients as Larry Franklin gave them.</p>
<p>Stop, digest, process. </p>
<p>Gov has so far said, oh nonsense, Sec. of State Rice never said anything to the lobbyists involving national defense or national security.  They’ve said that in court, which is going to make it hard for “gov” in another guise to say something different later to invoke state secrets &#8211; on Rice at least.  </p>
<p>So if those get invoked, in essence Gov will be admitting that yes, Rice et al DID give national defense info to the lobbyists.  But insta-declassification doesn’t work if things are then still blocked under the state secrets mantra.  </p>
<p>It’s all setting up to be very interesting and Lowell has his particular clients in almost (not quite, but almost) a win-win.  </p>
<p>If the Rice testimony is blocked bc gov admits that going over her discussions will get into national security matters &#8211; then they pretty much admit that Lowell’s clients are correct, that other officials told them the same kinds of stuff as Franklin and how were they to know what they “could” or “couldn’t” hear and the question really becomes one of why Franklin was tried, but not Rice.  </p>
<p>If Rice does testify and Lowell has any good faith basis whatsoever (and I trust his good faith before Gov’s everywhichway lately) for the claims that Rice et al told his guys all kinds of stuff, it is going to both help his case that his crew couldn’t know, and, again, skewer the leakerloyals in Bushdom. </p>
<p>And at some point, we may end up learning who the other two admin officials in the indictment (for also leaking classified info to the lobbyists) but not charged are (some bets are that one is Satterfield.)</p>
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		<title>By: PLovering</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072965</link>
		<dc:creator>PLovering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072965</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1072919&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Marilyn In Texas @ 166&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1072836&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;PLovering @ 104&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;One way to shutdown the Ziocons in our government is to take away their piggy bank.&lt;br /&gt;
Put a lid on the Federal Reserve System.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;President Kennedy signed an order to close the Fed three weeks before he was assassinated.  Johnson immediately rescinded that order. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ron Paul has promised to close down the Fed, and return the printing presses to the control of U.S. Treasury Dept. where they belong.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;interesting.  Do you have a link on Kennedy?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm&quot;&gt;http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/.....eserve.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1072919"><em>Marilyn In Texas @ 166</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1072836"><em>PLovering @ 104</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>One way to shutdown the Ziocons in our government is to take away their piggy bank.<br />
Put a lid on the Federal Reserve System.  </p>
<p>President Kennedy signed an order to close the Fed three weeks before he was assassinated.  Johnson immediately rescinded that order. </p>
<p>Ron Paul has promised to close down the Fed, and return the printing presses to the control of U.S. Treasury Dept. where they belong.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>interesting.  Do you have a link on Kennedy?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm">http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/&#8230;..eserve.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: newtonusr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072959</link>
		<dc:creator>newtonusr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1072954&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Petrocelli @ 173&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1072949&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bluetoe @ 172&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Johnathan Turley “There is no moral center in Washington, they are all dirty!!!”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;… sure makes you wonder why the Dems are not listening to Jonathan Turley and Bruce Fein …&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Partly because they advocated for Bubba’s impeachment.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1072954"><em>Petrocelli @ 173</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1072949"><em>Bluetoe @ 172</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Johnathan Turley “There is no moral center in Washington, they are all dirty!!!”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>… sure makes you wonder why the Dems are not listening to Jonathan Turley and Bruce Fein …</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Partly because they advocated for Bubba’s impeachment.</p>
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		<title>By: Petrocelli</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072954</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrocelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072954</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1072949&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bluetoe @ 172&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Johnathan Turley “There is no moral center in Washington, they are all dirty!!!”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;… sure makes you wonder why the Dems are not listening to Jonathan Turley and Bruce Fein …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1072949"><em>Bluetoe @ 172</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Johnathan Turley “There is no moral center in Washington, they are all dirty!!!”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>… sure makes you wonder why the Dems are not listening to Jonathan Turley and Bruce Fein …</p>
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		<title>By: Bluetoe</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072949</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluetoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072949</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Johnathan Turley “There is no moral center in Washington, they are all dirty!!!”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnathan Turley “There is no moral center in Washington, they are all dirty!!!”</p>
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		<title>By: Bluetoe</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072946</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluetoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072946</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Johnathan Turley is on Rachel Maddow skewering the Democrats.  I thought he was going to call them traitors to the Constitution which they are.  He did say they are nothing more than scammers.  When will the blogs realize this?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnathan Turley is on Rachel Maddow skewering the Democrats.  I thought he was going to call them traitors to the Constitution which they are.  He did say they are nothing more than scammers.  When will the blogs realize this?</p>
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		<title>By: P J Evans</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072943</link>
		<dc:creator>P J Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072943</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;marshen @ 164&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It doesn’t matter whether Osama is alive or dead: George gets his mileage either way, between the MSM, his pet 25%, and the wimps in the Democratic Party in Congress (most of whom do &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; speak for us: shall we name them the DPIC?).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marshen @ 164</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter whether Osama is alive or dead: George gets his mileage either way, between the MSM, his pet 25%, and the wimps in the Democratic Party in Congress (most of whom do <em>not</em> speak for us: shall we name them the DPIC?).</p>
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		<title>By: Bluetoe</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072932</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluetoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/11/02/the-greymail-defense-rides-again/#comment-1072932</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;pow wow @ 159&lt;br /&gt;
“It can happen here. Schumer and Feinstein and Lieberman and Mukasey are forging it for us as we speak.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is happening here!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pow wow @ 159<br />
“It can happen here. Schumer and Feinstein and Lieberman and Mukasey are forging it for us as we speak.”</p>
<p>It is happening here!</p>
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