Feinstein and Schumer will vote for Mukasey according to CNN and the AP:
Just hours before Feinstein and Schumer announced their decisions, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vermont, announced he would vote against the Mukasey nomination.
“No American should need a classified briefing to determine whether waterboarding is torture,” Leahy said. “Waterboarding was used at least as long ago as the Spanish Inquisition. We prosecuted Japanese war criminals for waterboarding after World War II.
Feinstein and Schumer’s cave-in follows the rather public admission that the CIA is using “special methods of questioning” during General Michael Hayden’s speech to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. Speaking of extraordinary rendition, the director of the CIA said:
“Our programs are as lawful as they are valuable … The irreplaceable nature of that intelligence is the sole reason why we have what I admit freely is a very controversial program.”
Claiming that the CIA has gotten “thousands of intelligence reports from the ‘fewer than 100 hardened terrorists’ detained since 2002,” he continued:
“These rendition, detention, and interrogation programs are small, carefully run operations,” he said, adding that less than a third of the detainees “have required any special methods of questioning”.
He continued:
“It was my belief – and the agency has acted going forward – that what it was we would do to protect the Republic had to have sustainability … It had to be consistent with our broad values as a nation. And so it could not stand on a single pillar of a definition of lawfulness. It had to have both policy and political legs.”
Good to see that “lawfulness” is so revered by our CIA chief …
Mira Oberman, reporting for Agence France Presse also noted:
… when asked directly whether or not waterboarding constituted torture, General Hayden gave a muddled and confusing response in which he cited domestic and international law.
“Judge Mukasey cannot nor can I answer your question in the abstract,” he said.
“I need to understand the totality of the circumstances in which this question is being posed before I can even answer that.”
Perhaps someone from the Hague could explain the totality of the Geneva Accords to Gen. Hayden?
Meanwhile, Malcolm Nance, an advisor:
on terrorism to the US departments of Homeland Security, Special Operations and Intelligence, publicly denounced the practice. He revealed that waterboarding is used in training at the US Navy’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School in San Diego, and claimed to have witnessed and supervised “hundreds” of waterboarding exercises. Although these last only a few minutes and take place under medical supervision, he concluded that “waterboarding is a torture technique – period”.
(snip)
While US media reports typically state that waterboarding involves “simulated drowning”, Mr Nance explained that “since the lungs are actually filling with water”, there is nothing simulated about it. “Waterboarding,” he said, “is slow-motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of blackout and expiration. When done right, it is controlled death.”
Mr Nance said US troops were trained to withstand waterboarding, watched by a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a backup team. “When performed with even moderate intensity over an extended time on an unsuspecting prisoner – it is torture, without doubt,” he added. “Most people cannot stand to watch a high-intensity, kinetic interrogation. One has to overcome basic human decency to endure watching or causing the effects. The brutality would force you into a personal moral dilemma between humanity and hatred. It would leave you to question the meaning of what it is to be an American.“
Apparently Chuck and DiFi have no such questions.
Schumer has just released a statement saying:
Under this administration, {the president’s} nominee will certainly never share our views on issues like torture and wiretapping
Apparently, Schumer looked deep into Mukasey’s eyes and is … reassured?
This afternoon, I met with Judge Michael Mukasey one more time. I requested the meeting to address, in person, some of my concerns. The judge made clear to me that were Congress to pass a law banning certain interrogation techniques, we would clearly be acting within our constitutional authority. And he flatly told me that the president would have absolutely no legal authority to ignore such a law, not even under some theory of inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution. He also pledged to enforce such a law and repeated his willingness to leave office rather than participate in a violation of law.
Given the Congress’ recent inability to stand firm when Bush whispers “national security” and the CIA claims “irreplaceable intelligence” … and this very willingness to cave on Mukasey, are we really reassured by Chuck’s rationale for his “hard decision?”
Update 2: Feinstein didn’t even claim Chuck’s rationale:
“In announcing her support for the nominee, Feinstein said: “First and foremost, Michael Mukasey is not Alberto Gonzales.”
Such high standards …
Update 3 and h/t to Selise: Clemons on Schumer
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
DiFink strikes again. worthless.
The American People have been sold out. Again.
Dear Chuck and DiFi,
GO. FUCK. YOURSELVES.
Very truly yours…
singles *sigh* What news. And after I emailed Schumer. He just does not listen to me.
Oh Jesus Christ.
I’m not Alberto Gonzales either.
Want me to be AG?
DiFi most certainly isn’t going to run again. But that worthless piece of shit Schumer not only will, but he’s deeply involved with DSCC.
DSCC should be blacklisted from every blog fundraising apparatus, as should Schumer, and anyone he endorses. Permanently. Period.
Bustednuckles – perhaps we should each send a photo to DiFi reading “Not Alberto, can I be AG?”
Bustednuckles @ 6
The Justice Dept. isn’t just broken..it’s Bustednuckles!
4th…ish.
All I say is we do live in interesting times, but I think they are getting to the point of over reaching and by their own actions they will be ‘hung’.
People are seeing this whole ‘play’ and our voices are getting louder. Everyone needs to throw support behind Dennis Kucinich and his impeachment bill. Now is our chance to see who stands with whom and ‘they’ are not going to be able hide once impeachment is back on the table. And madam speaker won’t be able to take it back off.
DiFi has proven once again that her ultimate goal in politics is to make the Lieberman phenomenon bicoastal. I’m am ashamed that I have voted for this person in the past. In the future, I will vote against her in the primary and not at all if she is the Democratic candidate. I’d like the enemy to be wearing the correct name tag.
what Tim said.
There would be some Bustednuckles if I was AG alright.
it’s a disheartening disgrace
Are we better than Saddam yet?
I knew this was coming but it is still hard to take. This is worse than there usual perfidy, it’s endorsing war crimes. Their excuses mean nothing. Like FISA, all they had to do is leave it the fuck alone, but no, they have to actively encourage the weasel in the WH by rewarding him for nominating Abu-lite.
I live in California & voted for DiFink in the past. No more!!!!!!!!! She/he,Lieberman and Schumer should move in together so between them they could have a pair of cohones to pass around.
Feinstein and Schumer – spineless!
Picture of Mukasey almost doing a “Dr. Evil” pose – priceless!
Bustednuckles @ 13
We can complete the confirmation hearing tomorrow at the Portland Oregon Firepup meetup ;)
Pacific northwest Firepup meetup on 11/3 at 3pm at:
Blue Moose
4936 N.E. Fremont St
Portland, Oregon
Anyone in the area can join us…
I’ll be there.
how convenient for Snarlin’ Arlen Specter: he can just shrink into the woodwork instead of pretending to make a stand and, as always, caving in when push comes to shove.
I agree with Russ Finegold on this —
The option of a worse nominee or no AG for the next year might have been lethal to Constitutional Government — and maybe Mukasey will surprise us, and actually defend the Constitution.
Charlie Brown/Lucy/yanked football redux
punaise @ 23
redux one more time
Grim, but it was educational to read the line about the lungs actually filling with water during waterboarding. That gem of a detail has been omitted from all the discussion and descriptions that I have encountered.
So. Yes, it is slow murder, and having been submerged a few times, I have no doubt that it is physiologically and psychologically excruciating. And, yes, I find it repugnant.
I also suspect that the subject, his or her family, his or her acquaintances, his or her ethnic group, his or her nation, his or her fellow humans would NEVER forgive the people who had performed that act.
The people of the Spanish Inquisition — much as I like Isabelle and Ferdinand for some of their qualities — have never erased the stain from their name. The Japanese labor under condemnation for their acts.
We are going to be no different from the worst that history has to offer.
Elliott @ 24
Groundhog Day.
I think we should start considering a Feinstein recall. Once the drive is initiated, we have 160 days to circulate the petition, and 20% of the voters in the last election have to vote to recall.
The woman has not been heeding the will of her constituents for a rather long time. Time to boot her out of office. The last time a senator was recalled in Cali was 1913, but people in this state have tried over a hundred times.
Couldn’t be comfortable to be DiFi and know people are actively seeking your early removal from office.
“It was my belief – and the agency has acted going forward – that what it was we would do to protect the Republic had to have sustainability … It had to be consistent with our broad values as a nation. And so it could not stand on a single pillar of a definition of lawfulness. It had to have both policy and political legs.”
” IT WAS MY BELIEF ” uh you are a Senator you should have absoulte knowledge of what is going on.
Belief implies neglect of your job I DIDN’T KNOWI won’t save you from war crimes.
Voting for McKasey is a war crime just what he let the government do to Jose Padilla an American Citizen is a war crime. You had foreknowledge Schumer your guilty.
“It had to be consistent with our broad values as a nation.” What WAS consistent with our values Schumer? Can’t you commit the phrase WATERBOARDING OR TORTURE TO PAPER or are you afraid of a paper trail, afraid of history?
Hoping that history forgets your hand in this huh? Pilate washing his hands had more honor than you, at least he did that publicly rather than hidding behind weasel phraseing.
Chuck fucks the left again. Just like he did Lamont. Just like he isSpitzer
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/b…..=post_3664
Why isn’t he demanding answers about the DOJ pressure on the US Attorney looking to corrupt Joe Bruno? Just asking.
http://www.thealbanyproject.co…..iaryId=834
punaise @ 21
Or, maybe they have some sort of agreement, “Hey, I was the spineless a**hole last time – it’s your turn now.”
Next stop Crazytown.
FYI: The photo is Gen. Hayden… I had prepped the post earlier to discuss his speech, DiFi and Chuck just decided to add to the horror about an hour ago.
Well, perhaps Congress should add an amendment to the very next bill that expressly prohibits waterboarding and any other form of reprehensible interrogation by any US officials, agenices, contractors or agents, etc. And pass this before any final vote on Mukasey — and see what the WH does. Let’s test the proposition that we can solve the problem through legislation — and if the WH threatens to veto, or the Republicans block the vote, then put Mukasey’s nomination on the same shelf where they keep the Constitutional provision for impeachment.
LiberalTarian @ 27
I like this even if we lose we scare her. Scare her enough we might get her to see the light.
The slide towards fascism continues.
I weep for my nephews and nieces and their progeny. I am ashamed for the legacy I am left with, to leave to them.
Here’s to the counter-revolution! Here’s to Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Nelson Mandela! Long may their spirits live! Long may their works inspire!
And, for that matter, here’s to Paul Wellstone!
Bob in HI
Sorry to go OT, but we have to get our government sorted out. Things on all sorts of fronts are going to get worse and we need grown-ups to stand up and the ‘others’ to sit down….
Tennessee town has run out of water
By GREG BLUESTEIN
http://www.charlotte.com/nation/story/344047.html
Have sent a scathing not to Di Fi, my not-so-esteemed Senator. Would a recall attempt do any good? It got Ahnold into office…
subbing for BooBoo Brooksie on the NewsHour, that insufferable little twit Rich Lowry actually had a cogent observation:
“as the one that brung Mukasey to the dance, Schumer couldn’t lose face by voting against him. He didn’t want to be the sole Democrat to fold, so he had to cultivate a f*ck-buddy, and DiFi obligingly held his hand”
that may not be a verbatim transcript…
It is the Democratic Party that has brought us to ruin-these two in particular need to go before the Hague as war criminals as well.
Siun @ 32
Halloween was Wednesday.
Tell ‘em to take off the horrible masks.
Things Come Undone @ 34
Sorry, posted before seeing this. Count me in for recall attempt. Can’t hurt. Might help.
We need to start asking the question:
Are Diane Feinstein and other Democrats being blackmailed by the Bush administration?
This question needs to get into the MSM now. One of the fruits of Illegal surveillance is dirt on your opponents. That is why Nixon did it. That is why J. Edgar Hoover did it. I believe that the Democratic party has been compromised and that is why. Bush can yank their chain anytime he wants.
Start asking this question.
behindthefall @ 25
I guess I should have realized this was inevitable considering what is being done to the person, but I too was surprised at this “little detail”
behindthefall @ 25
Earlier this week NPR interviewed someone on “Day to Day” who described waterboarding exactly this way. I believe the same gentleman was also quoted in a couple of FDL threads a day or so ago. I don’t recall his name, but the description was chilling. ~~~ModNote: Suggestions of violence directed at individuals have been removed from this comment. A hard as it may be to resist the temptation given the subject matter, they are not tolerated here.~~~
I am outraged. This doesn’t feel like my country any more.
punaise @ 38
Lowry also said waterboarding was not torture — after all, the Navy seals use it in training, so how could it be torture.
Letter from John Dean to Josh Marshall at TPM:
DiFi’s rationale – Mukasey is not actively breaking the law like Gonzales; he’ll just stand by and let Bush Administration continue it’s illegal activities. So okay by her!
444 days left.
30 pieces of silver for the entire Dem leadership. Which Presidential Candidates will support a filibuster? Dodd, Biden, Obama, Hilary all have friends who owe them favors in the Senate they could stop this if they tried.
I really cannot believe the Senate Dems would seemingly screw all their presidential candidates without their knowledge and approval.
Bill alone could kill this if he wanted to but…. he’s saving his political capital… for what?
Why can’t we get the CIA to go on record that will not use water boarding?
Are they afraid to say that, because they DO use this or what?
We know that have done it.
So the issue is, if that torture or is it not? If it is… and we have done it, then we have tortured and without disavowing it we will be torturing again.
That sucks.
Mark Shields was brilliant on NewsHour tonight, up against that obnoxious twerp Lowry, who thinks torture is just fine. Welcome to the post-US Constitution World.
Schumer and Feinstein dropped their smelly bomb votes on Friday afternoon. Their phones were off the hook and they slinked away from our Capitol building in shame. Go to hell, both of you.
Scarecrow – check out the Nance link … he advised on the Navy Seals training and his full comments are devastating.
Elliott @ 43
The spin has been that wb is “simulated” drowning; the reality is that is actual drowning, carried out just short of death, usually.
smapdi @ 47
can the Republic stand for another 444 days?
THATS IT.
I am going to go home so you don’t see a complete and total gasket failure, LIVE.
Have a good weekend.
Scarecrow @ 33
This is a great idea – and it has about as much chance of happening as my chances of getting the cats to cook dinner tonight.
Harry and Nancy would NEVER violate the comity of the Congress having Democrats getting fucked by Republicans by doing something like this.
Schumer’s fucking ego could have taken a blow, just this once, for the Constitution. And some kind of private assurances that Muccus, our new AG, really doesn’t truly believe in the unitary executive, really he doesn’t, don’t make me feel any better.
Why must my government constantly do things to shame me? We’re better than this. Why can’t they be?
Somewhere out there Lieberman is laughing.
Mukasey and Lieberman Yale Law ‘67.
Scarecrow @ 44
Don’t they train to resist torture by being tortured in a non permant damage type way?
online vote:
Rich Lowry,
a) “obnoxious twerp”, or
b) “insufferable little twit”?
You may choose ‘all of the above’
Scarecrow @ 44
Yeah, that seems to be the talking point. Pat Buchanon used it yesterday. The army also exposes recruits to gas under controlled conditions, so that they’ll recognize it. Still, the Geneva Conventions preclude use of gas on the battlefield.
Elliott @ 53
Whats that fiddling I hear?
Scarecrow @ 44
yeah, and “if journalists are lining up to give it a two minute whirl, how could it possibly be torture?”
Eureka Springs @ 56
I think he also contributed to Joe’s campaign before.
I’m picturing this. Set up outside the Senator building, a water board, bucket, all the gear. Trained personnel. Anyone who doesn’t think waterboarding is torture is welcome to lie down and check it out for themselves (not, of course, that anyone would, or that one would actually do anything). People with clipboards and white coats interviewing passersby and asking them their view/inviting their participation. Film on YouTube.
smapdi @ 60
to the tune of “Nero, my Gawd, to Thee”
Scarecrow @ 33
Scarecrow, they are not obeying the law now, why on earth would a new bill force them to do so? They do this shit ’cause they can and clearly NO ONE will stop them.
Train to resist torture? How do you do that?
The fella on democracy now who has done it has had it done to him said that it IS torture, no if and or buts. There is nothing simulated about it. It is the real thing, drowning someone slowly and it is extremely painful and your lungs DO fill with water. That’s drowning.
F*ck those bastards.
ABC news showed a story on ex Justice Dept. official who underwent waterboarding at the time the DOJ was to make a call. He concluded that very proscribed, supervised conditions would be reguired to render it other than torture. He was writing the criteria when Gonzo became AG and fired him.
I said to myself, that report will end Mukasey. It was followed by the report the DIFI and Chuck would vote for him.
Things Come Undone @ 57
This is exactly what Nance describes in the Independent article linked in the post. He talks about how the training is done with a doctor and all sorts of supervision and then contrasts that with its actual use … he talks about how hard it is to even watch even in simulations like the training … it’s a very clear, reliable discussion and worth a full reading.
pma @ 59
Yeah, that seems to be the talking point. Pat Buchanon used it yesterday. The army also exposes recruits to gas under controlled conditions, so that they’ll recognize it. Still, the Geneva Conventions preclude use of gas on the battlefield.
Its one thing if you volunteer for the army and resisting tear gas and torture is part of your training.
Its another thing if its not voluntary. Besides didn’t Pat dodge the draft so how would he know?
That was going to be my point – my son got gassed by the Navy during basic training, so he’d know how to react in that situation, it doesn’t make it right to USE the damned stuff.
This bullshit about having to be “read in on a program” before determining if torture is torture just makes my head explode. KABOOM. I don’t care what your fucked up fraidy cat small p*nis rational is for doing it, it’s TORTURE. If you don’t get that, you don’t have the morals, ethics, or brains to be the head of the JUSTICE department.
Sorry, but I’m about at the end of my rope, ranting here is keeping me sane.
Laura Doty @ 45
Excellent idea! All Firepups please get behind it and push!
Bob in HI
Laura @ 64
Of course they would never subject themselves to the non torture.
But would they intervene and prevent someone who WAS being water boarded (as a demo) in front of the capitol?
Since they are cowards, maybe they have the balls to watch and see how long they can stand it.
Terrific idea. I suspect some vet / human rights group may in fact do what you just said and I think it would be a FABULOUS action.
The only thing which made windsprints after football practice and many bootcamp exercises other than torture is the knowledge that the coaches or DI’s would be in trouble if they killed you.
KO is on with Dean. KO also reported a DoJ (?) official underwent waterboarding and then declared it to be w-b — and was fired.
BREAKING: KO reporting that an Acting AG tested waterboarding, found it was torture, reported it as so, and then was fired.
This is a clearcut example of how the neocons of both parties, but particularly the Democrats, operate.
They get something for Israel from Bush, they give something back to Bush. It’s mutual backscratching and blackmail at the same time.
It distorts politics in America, and it will continue to do so, since neocons fund both parties (see Wesley Clark on who wants to bomb Iran, and who backrolls the warmongers.)
Until the left grasps this nettle, and of course there are thorns everywhere, the politics of the United States will continue to be distorted, and the distortion will be impossible to describe, because some speech is forbidden.
Giuliani is first, and Clinton is the backup. That’s the politics of the United States for the next year or so.
Laura Doty @ 64
Anyone got some Guerilla Theater friends who might be up for this in the D.C. area?
Things Come Undone @ 69
Yours was the point I was making. Yes, I heard Pat Buchanon, back when Clinton was running for prez, argue that he (Buchanon) had done his bit by two years of college ROTC.
He was serious.
Thought exercise: Is waterboarding torture? Well if you did it to your wife would the cops bust you for assult and battery?
You simply cannot rely on congress critters to act with ethics informing their decisions.
Fascism R US
Things Come Undone @ 57
Assuming you don’t die, or lose oxygen to the brain, near drowning does not leave permanent physical damage. Go read the Nance link, then you’ll understand this “training” business. It is not to “withstand” torture, it is to fully comprehend that you will be broken by and to accept that fact.
Laura Doty @ 77
CodeDrink
Things Come Undone @ 79
No, they would haul your ass on charges of attempted murder or assault with intent to cause grave bodily injury.
punaise @ 64
punaise, you are trult gifted :)
Mad Dogs @ 75
This is likely why the Administration made sure that the Military Commissions Act contained immunity provisions for anyone engaged in suspect interrogation techniques.
We probably can’t get war crimes prosecutions. We’re left with “truth and reconciliation commissions” after Bush is gone.
msmolly @ 44
Sorry, mods, I didn’t intend to suggest violence. Seems like others have made the same suggestions that those who are unclear on the waterboarding concept should have to try it. Didn’t mean to offend.
And the description I was looking for in earlier threads is here, from the same Michael Nance quoted in the post above:
Link
BREAKING: From ABC News – Bush Administration Blocked Waterboarding Critic:
we have lost every single important platau
I have no idea what’s going on but the most hated president in our history, with a democratic majority in both the house and the senate is somehow NOT a lame duck
I am falling deeper and deeper into the abyss of hoplessness
I retire for the night, will not sleep well
Hmmm. Thought that waterboarding was being touted as ONLY PSYCHOLOGICAL; here’s Rude Pundit’s clip from the questions from SJC to Mukasey:
“Is the use of waterboarding, or inducing the misperception of drowning, as an interrogation technique illegal under U.S. law, including treaty obligations?”
Note that “MISPERCEPTION OF DROWNING”?
Nothing about your lungs filling slowly with water.
Not even THE SENATE knows what we do to people, apparently.
You know, that’s what so effective about torture: the body is quite good at figuring out when it is going to die as opposed to when someone is just bullsh***ing it. We go to the fair and get slung around in various machines and call it fun. But put us in a rack that threatens to stretch our spinal column until it really and truly does break and we are paralyzed and then dead: no — our body knows the difference.
I would trust the victims’ perceptions. Their bodies know very well that death will come. This is no “MISPERCEPTION OF DROWNING”.
Who formulated that question? Why was it inaccurate? Why did it explicitly make waterboarding seem to be just a psychological trick? Should every member of the SJC, every member of the Senate, every member of Congress be notified that waterboarding is indeed slow murder of one conscious human being by another?
punaise @ 82
Well, thanks, punaise. I’ll spend 100 years in limbo for laughing at that. I’m now up to 23,406 years.
Lieberstein!
perris @ 88
perris, there’s always a rainbow somewhere, you just have to keep looking!
There is exactly one presidential candidate that remembers we have a Constitution.
Dennis Kucinich!
I know he is not the preferred fire-pup candidate, notglamorous, not rich, not a Senator, only a man who his whole life has been fighting the corrupt politics that difi so well personifies, andthe ONLY candidate that has said, over and over, that impeachment is very much on the table, that these acts of torture, among many other crimes, are unconstitutional, impeachable offenses.
If you actually want a different politics, you must support a different politician. If the ‘left’ cannot unite behind the only candidate who is on the left, then expect the Difi’s to rule forever!
Is there anything we can do??
Laura Doty @ 83
Telling Pat Buchannon and Laura Bush’s divorce lawyer that fact might be humorous! Getting ingroupers to relate actions as happening to their ingroup is the only way to teach them empathy.
dave @ 4
My sentiment exactly! Disgusting.
might I suggest that we all call Biden (who is the only presidential candidate on judiciary) on Monday, and ask him to make it abundantly clear that in voting for Mukasey, Schumer and DiFi and literally endorsing torture? That if they haven’t got the guts to stand up to Bush on an issue so basic as torture, that they should resign their seats on the committee, and allow replacements to be appointed who aren’t total scum?
Scarecrow – I should float this idea: my levity is perhaps misplaced given the gravity of the situation.
punaise @ 38
Punaise — big high 5 on that one!! ROTFLMAO!!
On the other hand – it’s pathetic that this was probably the case with Chuckie-Boy. Does NY State have any recall statutes?
OT (but not really) Joe and Valerie Wilson scheduled to be on Bill Maher tonight. Kos on there as well.
So do we wait till monday morning to start calling biden or do we start over the weekend and leave messages?? I think it would add a certain urgency for their to be a bunch of voice messages over the weekend. Let’s show them how much we care about this!!!! It’s torture, folks. It’s laying the ground work to let criminals off the hook for torturing.
punaise @ 58
Yea, they do. It’s called SERE training, Survival, Escape, Evasion, Resistance, or something close. I went through the Navy version for flight crews deploying to SEA in the early 70’s. Waterboarding was part of the resistance phase, in a POW camp. It was terrifyingly realistic, including the waterboard. It is exactly torture, slowly drowning that triggers extreme panic. Anyone who has undergone it knows precisely what it is.
LiberalTarian @ 27
I don’t think you can recall Federally elected officials, like a Senator.
We are a nation that tortures. Rather than stand up to this, Feinstein and Schumer stand for it. They are moral lepers.
phred @ 81
One of the “high value” prisoners was tortured sufficiently that he is now a mental basket case, completely destroyed. I suspect that he was indeed waterboarded to the point of oxygen asphyxiation of the brain. He is still “alive,” apparently, but in a state exalted only by millimeters over the status of Terry Schiavo.
I think the phrase “cruel and unusual punishment” applies.
Gonzales– Addington– Torquemada– the Marquis de Sade, what’s the difference?
Bob in HI
So much for the city on a hill thing. Someone remember to turn out the light on the world.
punaise @ 99
My preference is NEVER to be without punaise’s levity.
While it doesn’t and can’t always keep the monsters away, it is far better than whistling in the dark.
GWBush is a loathsome sociopath.
Schumer and Feinstein are worse, because they should know better. They’ll never be able to sit with the decent people again.
p.lukasiak @ 98
Precisely! and
wavpeac – I sure like the idea of them arriving Monday morning to a full fax machine and voicemail!
this is just making me sick.
This is how I feel too
the pic’s from BobHiggins’s diary at The Agonist
I’m so pissed at DiFi!!
I sent an e-mail last night asking that she vote no on Mukasey — and I got an e-mail back today — never such a quick response before.
But it was about how she had signed the letter criticizing Limbaugh. Argh!!!!!! Stand up to Limbaugh, but shred the constitution — now that’s senatorial. Ack!!
Hugh @ 105
You know how media and politicians, and just plain people tiptoes around words? Can’t say that Bush lied, can’t call stuff what it is cuz it isn’t polite or productive or something?
This turning us into a nation that tortures is *EVIL* and it should be called that. Not standing up to it perpetuates the evil. We have become that which we fought against – worse than the dictator we “had” to topple because he was such a threat.
Caving into a lame duck with a 28% approval rating. There is no justification for that, much less for the torture they are condoning.
I can’t even be coherent, this has me so upset.
OldCoastie @ 111
I passed disgusted and mortified a while ago. I’m at heartsick now.
“America” is done. over.
Biden contact info:
Senate office:
201 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
Phone: 202-224-5042
Fax: 202-224-0139
phred @ 81
The point is the Navy thinks that it is torture thats why they expose the SEALS to it. The Navy is a government agency. 1) Torture is a war crime 2) the U.S Navy (a part of the U.S government ) thinks waterboarding is torture 3) When Bush waterboards people he is gulity of warcrimes.
Plus I don’t trust the people who lied/were wrong about WMD to be all that accurate about picking sucspects. Heck I don’t even expect them to get a fair trial after what McKasey did to Jose Padilla.
DiFi and her husband have reaped considerable rewards in the form of profits from this war. I hate her.
Mad Dogs @ 108
Hear, hear. Although I have tried whistling too.
Cowing and Caved Dems Vote However Bush Dictates; Get Used to it; it ain’t changing. Telco Immunity and Mukasey are just the begining.
Even Russ Feingold is flipping to become a Bush puppy dog. If you have an illusion of a Democrat majority in Congress on Senate Intel or Judiciary or their counterpart in the House it don’t mean diddly squat.
As I said long ago, Mukasey slam dunk. Telco Immuity slam dunk.
And Chuckey the Schumer has a new virtual laryngectomy.
Whatever Bush wants, Slam dunk from these pansy dems. Cowing and caved and once you understand the concept of cowing and caved, you can predict every vote.
Chris Dodd column at Huffington Post:…”A lot has been made of Judge Mukasey’s troubling stance on waterboarding and torture more broadly. While I think those are critically important questions, his beliefs on executive power are in many ways far more important. The attorney general must be a reliable defender of the rule of law.
But Mr. Mukasey seems to share the exact same ideology as other members of the Bush administration. He thinks the President has the authority to ignore the rule in the name of national security. Mr. Mukasey doesn’t seem to understand the oath we take: we don’t swear to support and defend the Constitution OR protect the country. We defend the Constitution TO protect the country.
For that reason alone, he should be disqualified to serve as the highest-ranking law enforcement official in the United States government. For me, he is. And I would hope the rest of my opponents–Republican or Democrat–would agree. Because it’s time we elect a President who understands that while America’s strength may come from our military and wealth – its greatness comes from our faith in the values expressed in our Constitution.”
Schumer’s statement is available.
Scarecrow @ 45
I didn’t see him volunteering to undergo it. These weekly roundups on the NewsHour have become worthless. You get some Bubblehead who spouts White House talking points, and then you get Shields who like the dormouse in Alice in Wonderland always seems more than half asleep.
I had always given Schumer a lot of slack for getting rid of Al D’Amato. But, I think the slack is all gone.
Remember “Marathon Man”? Now, having a sadistic dentist drill into your teeth probably isn’t going to kill you, but can we all agree that everybody in every theater where that film played knew d**ned well that they were observing a torturer at work?
Would we like to approve that for use by our government?
No. Didn’t think so. Death and vegetative states, though: better?
Whoever favors one human doing such things to another deserves to sleep very, very badly at night. Congresscritters? Are you listening?
DiFi “We’ll pass a law making waterboarding illegal.”
Um, yeah, then all Bush has to do is create a signing statement…..
I dread the upcoming holidays with the family republicans smirking about the spineless democrats….
Thanks a lot, and happy holidays……!
bobschacht @ 105
Do you have a link? This is huge I thought we would have to wait a year into a Dem presidency before we got those details. Well a year and a photo op of Bush at his new ranch in Paraguay.
DiFi profits from the torture and the ongoing war.
War profiteering should be illegal. You profit from this immoral bullshit, your profits should have to be taxed, 100%, and used to pay for the health care of the soldiers you used as pawns to your greed.
But as someone on the previous thread said, DiFi was voting for her CLASS not for her party or her country. More important not to mess up the power structure for the elite aristocracy we now have.
Scarecrow @ 123
Please wear latex gloves and eyegoggles when handling.
I think she does these “rescue W” acts for a specific purpose: to avoid her own and her husband’s indictment on war profiteering, contract rigging, and conflict of interest charges based on her service as Chair and Ranking Member of the Military Construction Subcommittee.
With the NSA eavesdropping, how could BushCheneyCo resist making her vote count every time: Southwick, Mukus, FISA.
Schumer is also linked in the update in the post – his account of his lovely meeting with Mukasey above is just part …
sickening.
The trick, or the purpose rather, is to find those interrogators who like it. Already we know a large number of Americans like the idea of it, many of them are Party members. Fewer will like doing it so it’s important to find those who do like it. Reward them. Professionalized them. Network them. Attach them to The Party.
Actually this whole thing about if waterboarding is torture is misdirection. I mean these quibblers have a point. Now gouging eyes out with a spoon or using a blowtorch on the underarm, now that’s torture, like we used to do in Central America in the good old days, the 80s’. The main thing is the purpose of this non toruture torture. That being eliciting false confessions.
Ask some Party member next time this comes up how many victims of the Inquisition who admitted to being witches in league with the devil were guilty.
siun: it’s malcolm nance, in case no one’s mentioned it already. i’m coming in late to the thread. the link is to malcolm speaking with npr.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..d=15844677
Spiny @ 42
What Spiny said.
Greenwarrior! Thank you!
I’ll update the name in the post.
leinie @ 129
Heck: why stop at 100%? Anyone for 110%? 200%?
(Sweden had an interesting case once where some artist’s income was being taxed >100%. May have been Bergman; he left afterwards. May have been several, in fact. Sorry, not good at random links … )
Ok, I agree with Dodd about the unitary executive – did he conclude the column by promising to hold or filibuster?
Cuz I’m out of patience with the hot air speaking. I want some fucking leadership, and some fucking action.
Biden needs to step up now, too, and so does Clinton and Obama and all the rest of them.
Stop giving that fuckwitted child in the White House a blank check.
My email to DiFi:
“You are either a woman without courage or a traitor to your party, the people of California and your country. How could you vote for a man for attorney general who can not answer a simple legal question about torture? What is your problem?”
Scarecrow @ 123
Chuckles sells out for peanuts – dissing Mukasey, his own nominee, would be just too “embarassing”.
Chuckles, seeing your bare ass would be an improvement over having to see your “principles”.
Behindthefall, you’re right. I aimed too low. Years of lowered expectations from my representatives asserting itself, I guess.
Tax the war profits at 200%. I like it.
Good evening, Siun.
Good to see you, though were that it were under happier circumstances.
This is obviously not real military video, but still very instructive to the question of whether or not waterboarding is torture.
Call me crazy, but is there a plausible reason Bushdogs like Feinstein or Schumer or Pelosi cave so readily on command? Does Bush or Cheney have something on them? I think these treasonous Dems need some fine-tooth combing over.
Their political base does not support their policies or voting records, and yet they consistantly sit when Bush jerks their
choker collar. Something is rotten, and I think it’s because they fear something being exposed.
Elliot@112:
Perfect visual.
That should be on a tshirt.
Pete Pierce @ 121
I don’t agree with you on Feingold, but yes, enough Democrats vote with Bush on “security matters” for the Republicans to have an effective majority in the House, and an effective two-thirds majority in the Senate. Next up, watch the Democrats give Bush all the funding for Iraq he asked for. They’ll probably tack on more money that he doesn’t even want, like they did six months ago.
Until the Democrats face up to the fact that they’re being led around by the nose by Republicans in Democratic clothing, nothing is going to change.
Rebel Yell @ 142
You didn’t think they were doing that illegal wiretapping and surveillance to catch terrissts, did you? Any they happened to round up, at opportune times for them politically, were just gravy.
If it quacks like a duck…
Spiny @ 42
I agree very much. The wiretapping results have been used for political purposes – I guarantee it! Imagine the data collected on reporters, diplomats, candidates, legislators, anyone else who might have travelled overseas – bank data, etc.
Karen
Rudy sweeps the field on WPITW taking the Bronze, Silver, AND Gold.
p.lukasiak @ 98
Hear Hear! But will Biden have the scrote to do it? Magic 8-Ball sez, No Fucking Way!
pierce aero @ 146
they’ve got everything on all of us, and they did it before we had a clue.
I decided not to give more money to Democrats long ago… shortly after their 37th cave to Bushco.
John Dean has a great idea of how to salvage something very positive out of this sorry state of affairs. It’s over at TPM.
I think we miss the real issue when we wonder if Dems are being blackmailed or such to vote with Bush. The simpler answer – and I think the real answer is that they agree with Bush …
So long as we make excuses for them – including thinking they are just bowing to some nasty threat of exposure, we will not face up to the need for a very serious overhaul.
Look at Dodd – he’s clearly someone they would love to force to be quiet – and he keeps speaking up.
TeddySanFran @ 131
Is self dealing illegal? A lot of the Bush war contracts were no competing bid contracts if Dianne gave her husband the same treatment then is that is quid pro quo for her support for the war?
Sure she is no worst than the Bush contributors who got contracts and then couldn’t deliver our troops the armoured vehicles and bullet proof vests when they said they would…years later.
Did Dianne’s husband deliver on time? I bet Dianne still cashed the check even if the goods weren’t delivered on time!
Has the Democratic front runner for president expressed an opinion on the Schumer/Feinstein move today on Mukasey?
And … if we want change, we need folks like:
Go DONNA!
bobschacht @ 106
Exactly.
Rebel Yell @ 142
Someone last night said something remarkably insightful, which was that the Founding Fathers, may they rest in peace, had counted on each branch of government being “jealous” of their powers, that is, they would fight tooth and nail, go to the mat to preserve their share of the pie.
Yet, Congress has quite literally abdicated its powers without a whimper; it even seems anxious to do so.
I called this “the Tsar and Duma” arrangement some time back, and I find that only reinforced by Bush’s tantrums demanding that he be given bills cut to certain measurements.
No, Mr. President. You are NOT The Decider; The People are The Deciders. Congresspeople are our representatives. They enact our decisions. YOU, Mr. President, are tasked with seeing that the will of The People is implemented swiftly, justly, and effectively.
Ah — how many times can you say it? My head hurts. Good night, all.
punaise @ 2
DiFink stinks again.
Just what are the behind the scenes dynamics on the Feinstein-Schumer-Mukasey move?
Cave-in? These are Beltway Dems who are, for the most part, part of the problem. They agree with the president, so how can they cave in? Caving in implies some resistance.
But I’m floored by Schumer, who usually votes on the side of the angels. He voted against Gonzo, after all. WTF is up with this decision?
Sorry, I haven’t read comments. I just heard on KFI (major LA station) that the LA Times has an article ready to print regarding a major presidential candidate involved in a serious sex scandal. Any news in these parts?
Lets say Dianne’s husband hires a lobbying firm to get a military contract the firm gives money to Dianne is that illegal?
Suppose Dianne’s husband hires a general or two after 9/11 for their board of directors generals who asked Congress for his companies products.
Given that situation in a no bid enviroment I don’t see how that is not a conflict of interest.
Bill Hicks on why Democrats and Republicans seem so similar…
Loo Hoo. @ 161
No GOP Dem or Bill?
Now if someone told me that Feinstein and Schumer were influenced by certain interest groups who wanted an AG that was perhaps sympathetic as to advising the prez it would be legal to attack Iran without Congrssional approval, I’d just have to ask; how could that possibly be true?
Eli’s Up.
Siun @ 152
I agree with you Siun, they don’t need to be blackmailed, they agree with the policies they support. Time to boot them out and rebuild the party pronto.
Teddy San Fran @ 118. How long have you been calling San Fran Fi a Democrat? She switched to the Republicans for all voting purposes years ago.
Loo Hoo. @ 161
Probably one of the Rethugs taking the fall to keep torture and spying off the front page next week. How perfect.
Let’s say Bush says, Israel will get slightly less next year, unless certain Dems kowtow.
Let’s say certain neocons, in politics, in the media, donor class, announce they will actively work against Bush, unless Israel gets that little something.
Mutual blackmail. It’s the virus in American politics, it’s the unspeakable, unsayable, unholy dynamic that infects everything and everyone in American politics.
I know, I know. The usual suspects will scream and whine. Tough.
End of story.
Brian Lawson @ 113
Happened to me too!
There must be a diligent but mis-informed intern on the job in her office. Never had such a quick response, but (like all of them) it was completely off-topic. Her constituent response operation is flawed.
phred @ 167
I see no evidence that Schumer agrees with Bush or Mukasey. His statement says just the opposite. If you take him at face value, he’s saying he faces a dilemma, and that voting for Mukasey is the lesser of the evils, not that he agrees with either evil.
The way I read Schumer’s statement is that he sees the country being blackmailed. We must accept someone like Mukasey or accept something even worse. He tries to dress this up by his “hope and expect” that Mukasey might actually do something worthwhile, but he’s really describing extortion — and that was Bush’s threat yesterday, in suggesting that if Mukasey wasn’t confirmed, he would not appoint anyone else. It was a threat to be even more lawless and unaccountable.
So if you want to challenge Schumer, you have to address what someone who’s facing extortion should do.
My own view has always been that you cannot negotiate with this lawless regime, unless you put squarely on the negotiating table your own threat to remove them from office. Once you take that off the table, and you try to negotiate with someone who practices distortion, there is no way you can win. You have to accept defeat, over and over, and try to hide it by “hope and expect” nonsense.
Filibuster
The point is not to kill the Mukasey nomination — but to use the time for a real — talking, talking, talking filibsuter — to say over and over again that the US does not support torture. If 41 Senators can’t do that — very bad.
During this process Mukasey could be slowly compelled to change his position — not as effective as filling his lungs with water, but hey, we’ll take what we can get.
TeddySanFran @ 171
I was wondering if that might be the case — yes, she’s messed up in so many ways. What can we do?
the sjc hasn’t voted yet. and while i think it unlikely that senators torture and waterboard will change their minds and vote against mukasey’s nomination – it’s not absolutely zero.
the sjc hearing is scheduled for tuesday at 10 am.
1) leahy could postpone the hearing. i’ll be calling him and biden first thing monday.
2) if the hearing proceeds as scheduled – then imo, there needs to be a anti-torture presence to leaflet and protest.
i know it’s a lot to ask, because i don’t think i can go – some health problems are keeping me close to home for now. but, if there are any firepups willing to go in my stead, i’ll happily contribute some $ towards travel expenses and bail money (i’ll ask for a committment to nonviolence). maybe others here would contribute as well.
what do you-all think? anyone want to go? anyone want to support those who do? anyone want to work on writing and designing a flyer for leafleting?
or am off the mark?
selise @ 175
Selise,
As usual, you’re right on the markk!
Bob in HI
LiberalTarian @ 27
I was just thinking the same thing. I want her OUT!!! Enough already. She either has no principles whatsoever or is being blackmailed by the White House. Her cave-ins to Bushco are looking very, very suspicious.
Californians: How do we start the recall? I’m dead serious.
High status blogger Glenn Greenwald says:
when will the embarrassing efforts to pretend that the (D)’s are a real opposition party worth supporting ever come to an end?
they have enabled, and are complicit in, most of the crimes of the Bush regime that are continually lambasted here, then comes the bait and switch – we are supposed to elect more Dems?
This is the question I’m going to pose on Overtime with Bill Maher tonight. I hope it gets picked but if not it’s something I just have to bring up:
Concerning Bush’s nomination to Attorney General, Michael Mukasey; once again we see two prominent Democrats cave in and offer their support to an individual who can not/will not tell Congress whether he believes waterboarding is torture or not.
Given the fact that this will probably allow Mukasey to be confirmed by Congress and will give Bush the firewall he needs to turn the United States into a country that openly practices torture my question is this
Has Bush used illegal spying to gather dirt on key Democratic members of Congress?
Here we have the most despised, most unpopular, most corrupt President this country has ever had but yet he gets everything he wants from a Congress, a Congress with a Democratic majority I might add. So please tell me, are the Democrats that incompetent or are they being blackmailed by the Bush administration?
Scarecrow @ 172
scarecrow – have your read this post from steve clemons? i don’t see any reason to take schumer at face value for what he says – i take him at face value for what he does, and i conclude that at best – torture, especially of muslims, is not something he cares about. i’m afraid siun is right.
PTrig @ 158
Feinstink
Scarecrow @ 172
I see your point Scarecrow, but I disagree with it. Over and over and over again Dem leaders have trotted out some variation of “I hate this, I did all I could do, but my hands are tied. Sorry”. And this does not wash with me. If Schumer really feels blackmailed, then he needs to have a heart to heart with Nancy about putting impeachment back on the table.
All of the leadership wants to eat their cake and have it, too. They bring up vote after vote apparently oblivious to the various parliamentary tools that could be used to hold Bush’s feet to the fire. The Republicans in Congress always got their way when they were in the majority and it continues now that the Dems are in the majority. The Dem leadership controls the schedule. If they don’t want something to happen, it doesn’t happen (consider the subpoenas that have yet to be taken up). When they bring up a piece of business, it is the leaders’ responsibility to ensure an acceptable outcome.
I like John Dean’s recommendation, but honestly with this Congress, what are the chances of tying Mukasey’s appointment to a special prosecutor to look into all of the administration’s wrong doing? Pretty much zero. The Dem leadership is pretty much fine with the Rethug agenda. That is the only explanation for what appears from the outside to be an utter collapse of leadership. I don’t think they are either that stupid or incompetent.
Can DiFi be recalled?
Kathy/Fozzetti @ 183
Federal officials cannot be recalled. Senators can be removed only by the Senate itself.
Selise! The Clemmons article is a great link – thank you!
I’ll add it to the post for later readers.
phred @ 182
yes.
and i think that pelosi’s support of al wynn is a big tell that the line, “I hate this, I did all I could do, but my hands are tied. Sorry.” is just a big lie.
it’s not the dem leadership that are playing lucy – it’s us.
it’s not the dem leadership exhibiting the symptoms of a battered spouse – it’s us.
Siun @ 185
nice story about dodd’s role behind the scenes too.
selise @ 186
Yep. And let me add my thanks to Siun’s for the Clemmons’ link above.
well, i’m sorry i missed all but the tail end of this discussion. expect there will be more chances this weekend though….
selise @ 189
at least until my blood pressure comes back down ;)
phred @ 190
no kidding.
Would the nomination of Michael Mukasey be an explicit approval of torture?
Yes
92%
No
8.3%
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=746
One of the things that has puzzled me lately is why all of a sudden there are so many Republicans that have made the same statement about Congress not specifically making waterboarding illegal. Lately it’s been a real popular talking point.
My immediate thoughts are that if the Congress does pass a law about waterboarding, as Schumer also suggested, then the Bush administration can move onto some other type of torture (something they are probably already doing) and say later, when they are caught, that Congress did not say this procedure was torture like they did waterboarding, so it isn’t.
Am I missing something here? Is there another reason why the Republicans seem to be playing the “don’t throw me in the briar patch” trick when they really want Congress to do it?
“And he flatly told me that the president would have absolutely no legal authority to ignore such a law, not even under some theory of inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution. He also pledged to enforce such a law and repeated his willingness to leave office rather than participate in a violation of law.”
First, aren’t there already laws against torture (both by statute and treaty obligation) and wiretaps without a warrant (perhaps Schumer has never heard of the Constitution and FISA). The questions before the nominee are if he sees these as real violations. So this is not a real answer.
TeddySanFran @ 131
Teddy, isn’t there something we can do about Feinstein,[other than always calling her War Profiteer (Sen) Dianne Feinstein]? The evidence seems largely out there.
If you’re right (and I think you are), we risk a strategic release of dem dirt in election season. The rep retirements would fit with this scenario (”we’ve cleaned up our probs, but the dems haven’t”).
Feinstein should be investigated for war profiteering.
What kind of influence will Mukasey have over the upcoming espionage investigation and trial? I believe Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty was taken out by the AG scandal and that he was very involved with the a-p-c investigation.
Schumer is the new “Torture Boy”.
Abu Gonzales will always be the original, but he’s out of government now. The mantle has been passed.
Chuck “Torture Boy” Schumer. Let’s make it stick.
bobschacht @ 176
How about a replica of a water board out front of where ever the hearing is taking place. Folks could give it a try so they know what they are supporting.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 159
The issue is Isr*el. This is what has been going on there, I believe, in some contexts also. If we identify it as torture officially here. There are implications elsewhere as well.
Richmond @ 199
they are unashamed – they made their own acknowledgments and accomodation with torture a long time ago – calling it “moderate physical pressure” – google that up – and of course, routinely practice far worse.
from http://www.guardian.co.uk/isra…..66,00.html
Very wry. Of course, DiFi’s husband is a major defense contractor.
Its just Business as usual, the illusion of a government for the people an by the people b
Sorry but its two people of the Jewish persuasion that the A*P*C got to …
we are doing the bidding of Israel and Saudi Arabia (see Kyle Lieberman Act)b
We took care of the Saddam for Israel so they broker a new deal with the Palestinians
Israel first Americans last
I am Independent forever b4 thousand GI’s dead 30,000 wounded, 2.4 trillion spent, a million Iraqi’ dead wounded or displaced.
Where’s the oil from Iraq ? Off the market curtail supply and the price goes up ?
Mod note: Please do not bold entire comment. Thanks
LiberalTarian @ 27
That was a State Senator in 1913, Marshall Black, later convicted of embezzling. Federal officials cannot be recalled in state, in DiFi’s case, only the US Senate can remove her before an election, or she can be (federally) impeached by the US House.
Why Congress hasn’t passed laws against waterboarding long ago is beyond me.
Schumer let himself and Bush off the hook by saying he trusts the Makasey will enforce laws against waterbaording ONCE CONGRESS PASSES THEM. I’m sure Bush will honor them too, thus relieving him of prosecution as a war criminal for orders given to torture up until then, saying ‘there were no laws on the books against it’.
Stupid, criminal Congress.
Schumer and Feinstein can go to hell and go to trial with the rest of the criminal Bush administration.
I abhor sexism. For difi and schumer I can think of no other term than ****. I will never vote for a fascist, however because of these two gutless pimps I’ll sit this one out. Like Mavin Gaye said “What’s Goin On?”
(MOD NOTE: Edited – that is one word that will always be prohibited here at the lake)
Is the blogoshere being taken over by the Corporae Media? I just tried to refer to difi and schumer as a derogotoity part of the female anatomy. Sorry, I could’nt think of a more accurate word. Any suggestion?
chazaroo @ 205
(putting on moderator hat)
This the comment you are referring to?
punaise’s comments are invariably pun to read.
peas!
Harman, Schumer,and Feinstein. Maybe the Israel connection has been working overtime.
behindthefall @157, with respect, as many times as necessary.
rest well!
peas!
Promano @ 202 –
I suggest you check the votes (past and future) that rubber stamp the Bushies consistently. They always include a bus load of Democratic Wasps as well. The term Democrat when it comes to votes in Congress is a real joke. A more accurate term would be “consistent Bush suck ass rubber stamps”.
The Democratic 110th Congress has done precisely what exactly that comports with anything wished on blogs like this or “Next Hurrah”? I can’t find anything they’ve accomplished.
As I watch the imbecil Guilliani mock the Dems for inviting the figure head Iran President to the White House I note that just as he had no plan to protect firemen with efficient radio contact between choppers, EMS, and NYPD, and NYFD in 911 he has no clue of what to do about Iran and never states detail consistent with all the ciphers who are Republican white men running.
“Rudi 911 every 3 words in every sentence” never talks about where troops to attack Iran would come from (there aren’t any) or how he would get at Iranian nuclear sites which are dispersed, hardened, and underground and impervious to US or Israeli bombs.
Rudy’s figures on cancer are simply stupid, but that doesn’t stop him. His homie in the hood Mukasey’s worse symptom yet is not his tacit endorsement of waterboarding and torture which many Bush DOJ and current US Attorneys(can you spell Yoo and Dign) indoctrinating law students now, and current U.S. Attorneys like Namias have upheld and written DOJ secret memos supporting torture. Mukasey has also endorsed an Imperial Presidency in his testimony, so expect worse than Gonzales, but with more federal experience and sophistication in screwing with your rights ( experience which Gonzales had zero)
just as he Mukasey consistently did when he was on the bench
It was his abuse of the Material Witness laws to hold hundreds of innocent people with no charges while he was a district court Judge in the Southern District of New York.
No particular lobbying group had to get to these Bush enabling “Democrats”. The little putz from Texas snaps his fingers and they jump whichever way he wants.
People who aren’t following Britney 24X7 which most of your country does who is oblivious to any of this, are finally waking up that representation by Democrats in the House and Senate is a total delusion just as it has always been.
I’ll say one thing for the Republicans–they may be ideologically stupid, and an undisguised shafter of the midle class for the very affluent economic class, but they know how to stick together, rubber stamp their president and cow the other side and they do so with a near perfect record and a perfect record on all significant votes.
You can check here:
House, Senate and Committe Votes
Israel and the US share a huge problem they can’t do anything about–an inevitable nuclear Iran immunized by a nuclear capability that can quickly wipe out all 60 miles of the country called Israel and reduce it to a ruin full of cholera and radiation sickness.
They will continue to fund Hamas, Al Queada, Hezbullah, and permutations and combinations of Islamic Jihad as successfully as the moron Rice has enabled them to do.
Islamic Fundamentalists would like to keep the sawed-off Putz from Texas and Queen Rice in office into perpetuity. They are enabling a nuclear Iran with their feckless sanctions, clueless to stop them and while they can’t recruit US forces, they sure as hell are recruiting forces for Islamic Jihadists and Hamas.
Your gas prices will climb towards $10 a gallon so get used to it. Only huge gas prices will bring fuel efficiency to the US, just as only a draft will make a significant dent in exponentially high secret supplemental budgets and exponentially high Dover coffins who don’t get the publicity Britney does in cerebral America.
Even the maker of Prius, Toyota behind the scenes has lobbied fiercely for milage not to increase a scintilla while in Japan some cars are pushing 40 mpg.
Hamas is being cemented into power and Iran, like Pakistan, will soon be marketing nuclear technology.
The U.S. is in no shape to go after Iran in any way, and soon will be facing nuclear retaliation not to mention that they lack the guts to initiate a draft that is the only thing that will really bring troops home from Iraq and stop the Dover coffins which will soon be 4000 and climbing. That 30,000 is a low figure for the actual wounded since reporting is a shambles, but it is more of an accurate figure for those who have significant medical/surgical conditions which prevent them from walking, seeing or using the arm(s) that isn’t (aren’t) there.
The VAH system remains piss poor as it has for 30 years often running out of basic medications a physician needs to order in an emergency and basic equipment that most private hospitals have. It’s ability to followup patients remains a shitstorm as does most of what the US government does.
LiberalTarian @ 27
Not Constitutional for Federal Offices. You can recall State Elected Officials…but not members of Congress. Read the State Constition a bit more carefully. You’re wasn’t your time.
Scarecrow @ 33
Any such law would have to be a “clarification” of already existing law. If it creates a new law that appears to create new law then we have created a situation where Bush and his cronies are exempt from prosecution for any acts until the law takes hold. Ex post facto and all that.
I am terribly disappointed in Schumer. It’s a terrible day. I’m really glad you guys are here tonight, and that the rest of you are as angry and sick about this as I am.
This support of Mukasey by Feinstein and Schumer is so twisted, that it defies logic. One would think that these two jewish senators specifically would be sensitive to the idea of torture. They have made a sickening decision. They have learned nothing from history. Nothing.
shit. i can’t even get my cartoon characters straight.
correction to my 186:
it’s not the dem leadership that are playing lucy – it’s us.it’s not the dem leadership playing charley brown to the R lucy – it’s us playing charley brown to the D leadership.
Who needed THIS to realize that Feinstein is a doofus of the first order?
Schumer is in the pork barrel business, primarily; that’s how and why he is in this line of “work”. The IOU has been recorded.
It really, literally, actually IS depressing to see what passes for governance — practices and people — in this country.
Fucking shits! Dan Froomkin has been documenting all this.
Got in late last night and, once again, I’m “Stunned but unsurprised.”
Maybe that could be the title of a future biography of DiFi.
I knew Fineswine would vote for him when she said (sort of) that she was “studying the situation.” That’s DiFispeak for; “I’m voting against my party but won’t announce it until Friday night.”
She’s nothing if not consistent.
The Truffle @ 160
‘Two Democratic Senators involved in that part of the Bolton battle — one on the Foreign Relations Committee and one not — told me personally that Senator Schumer called them to say “a vote against Bolton is a vote against Israel.”‘
What is just as demoralizing as the Schumer/Feinstein knife in the back job on those Democrats who for once were trying to take a stand is the continued blatant bias of NBC, CBS, ABC in reporting what happened with less context than the latest drive by shooting. No affect, no significance reported about what these “Democrats” did; just another “Move along folks; nothing happening here” while at the same time the blogosphere is going berserk with rage that will remain unknown to the people who might be motivated by it if they only knew. Instead this latest betrayal and massacre of what was beginning to look like a pie in the face to our fascist president was quashed by the MSM whose see no evil, here no evil, speak no evil credo keeps the public in the dark about Schumer and Feinstein’s repulsive ambush.
Third party anyone? Impeach Feinstein and Schumer anyone? Anything anyone?