As much as I admire Chris Dodd's efforts to preserve the Constitution and oppose the circumvention of the courts as they examine whether or not U. S. telecoms broke the law by aiding the administration as it spies on Americans without a warrant, his performance at the end of this week's debate was abysmal.
I didn't watch the whole debate, but I've read (and annotated!) the 40 page transcript.
There's a lot I can say about the Brian Williams/Tim Russert misogynistic tag team questions apparently written by Pills Limbaugh, or about the various ways the candidates flirted with and sometimes repeated outright right wing attacks and talking points against fellow democrats, but all that will have to wait, because something else really pissed me off: Chris Dodd used several talking points right from Lou Dobbs nightly coded racist rants:
MR. RUSSERT: An illegal immigrant should not have a driver's license.
SEN. DODD: This is a privilege. And look, I'm as forthright and progressive on immigration policy as anyone here, but we're dealing with a serious problem here, we need to have people come forward. The idea that we're going to extend this privilege here of a driver's license, I think, is troublesome. And I think the American people are reacting to it.
We need to deal with security on our borders, we need to deal with the attraction that draws people here, we need to deal fairly with those who are here; but this is a privilege. Talk about health care, I have a different opinion. That affects the public health of all of us. But a license is a privilege, and that ought not to be extended, in my view.
MR. WILLIAMS: Who else? Senator --
SEN. CLINTON: I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it. And we have failed --
SEN. DODD: Wait a minute. No, no, no. You said yes, you thought it made sense to do it.
SEN. CLINTON: No, I didn't, Chris. But the point is, what are we going to do with all these illegal immigrants who are (driving ?) -- (inaudible)?
SEN. DODD: Well, that's a legitimate issue. But driver's license goes too far, in my view.
SEN. CLINTON: Well, you may say that, but what is the identification if somebody runs into you today who is an undocumented worker --
SEN. DODD: There's ways of dealing with that.
SEN. CLINTON: Well, but --
SEN. DODD: This is a privilege, not a right.
SEN. CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer has agreed to do is to have three different licenses; one that provides identification for actually going onto airplanes and other kinds of security issues, another which is an ordinary driver's license, and then a special card that identifies the people who would be on the road.
SEN. DODD: That's a bureaucratic nightmare.
SEN. CLINTON: So it's not the full privilege.
Dodd pretends not to know that under our system, health care is also a "privilege," so the standard he sets out is a dishonest one, not to mention paternalistic as hell. He claims health care is different, but does not explain why, or how. He also says "there are ways to deal with that" but his campaign has refused to elaborate on what those ways might be, or to offer any statement of clarification of these remarks at all. I've asked for follow up and have gotten none.
Dodd has some good history in dealing with issues of interest to the latino community, which makes it all the more puzzling that he uses what clearly can be construed as dog whistle signals to any xenophobic working class whites in Iowa who may blame their economic insecurities on migrants and latinos. While these statements may seem innocuous to many of the rest of us, these are specific talking points, like the "welfare queen" label of a generation ago, that xenophobic bigots recognize as consistent with their own irrational fears and racist inclinations.
Elliot Spitzer's original plan was a very good one. It would have saved New York taxpayers a lot of money due to accidents by uninsured drivers while simultaneously bringing many more people into the system where they can be counted. Unfortunately, Spitzer has modified his plan in such a way that it could place migrants at significant risk of federal persecution through tracking by Homeland Security.
He knuckled under to extreme right wing pressure by the astonishingly corrupt Republican Joe Bruno* in New York, under simultaneous attacks from his flank by machine Democrats in Albany like Andrew Cuomo who don't like Spitzer's independence or tendency to shake up the status quo with his progressive, outsider's agenda. Meanwhile, Spitzer should fix his plan to ensure protection of migrants and prevent the targeting of latino minorities through profiling and harassment by a hostile federal bureaucracy (here's but one casualty of the right wing's attrition, harassment and deportation strategy. . . and what it does to families of people who participate in the American dream and contribute to the economy). The governor's approach was right the first time.
Unfortunately, from what I can tell, the progressive grass roots in New York are currently more consumed with anger over poor communications and outreach from Spitzer's office than they are focused on helping him advance his most preferred agenda, and unintentionally, their lack of open support and their barely whispered fury are playing in to Joe Bruno's slimy hands.
There's a reason New York Democrats fail to advance strong leaders, and why NYC in particular ends up electing Republican mayors, giving the rest of us people like Rudy Giuliani: it's because the state party gets too embroiled in political fiefdoms and personality feuds to let a strong progressive leader emerge. Spitzer's driver's license policy retreat should be an occasion for new grass roots leadership to engage in progressive organizing, not recrimination that ultimately empowers progressive enemies. Having grown up and spent my grad school years in New York, the pattern to me is all too familiar.
Time will only tell if New York Democrats will gather round Spitzer to promote a sustainable progressive agenda for the long term, or if hacks like Andrew Cuomo will gain in power. . . with the tacit "let's do business" cooperation with GOP crime bosses like Joe Bruno.
Though Clinton got tangled up on the driver's license issue during the debate, she had the right instinct to defend Eliot Spitzer, rather than throw him under the bus. She would not commit herself to the specifics of Spitzer's current plan, which is indeed flawed, even as she endorsed its goals, both during and after the debate. Her position on the policy is, to my eyes, the same one John Edwards is cited as having after the debate, and is like the one Obama made more explicit during the debate.
Dodd, on the other hand, seized the opportunity to shame himself in front of the very progressives who otherwise have begun to give him a strong, second look.
Note to Chris Dodd: just as it was wrong for Obama to throw gay folks under the bus for crass political advantage, you don't get a pass for signaling a willingness to throw immigrants and latinos under the bus for cheap political gain and for the love of Lou Dobbs.
Stop it.
* For more on the scummy Joe Bruno, check out here, here, here, here and here, for a start. It would be a great service for someone to create one single summary source with links to tell the full story of the corrupt Bruno and his machine as it continues to evolve. Focused, consistent, coordinated effort on this front would seem to be a good investment of grassroots time. The story needs lotsa telling, even beyond New York, where "everyone knows" he's scum, but the story is not well enough documented and collected to make for easy telling.
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Personally, I thought that Timmeh looked like a worn out, alcoholic black-jack dealer in an off-strip casino.
Hey, Pach
I read that as Phyllis Limbaugh first time through. Weird, eh?
FunnyD
EPU’d..Strange stuff from Dodd..Strange stuff from Feingold..
TPM
1,646 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Pachacutec and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Al Gore, where are ya when we needja??!!!
KEEP THE FAITH BUT OUR OPTIONS ARE SHRINKIN’ FAST!!
DirtyEffinHippie @ 2
How perfect.
Well, I would certainly be happy to vote for Dodd if he were the nominee in the general election. And I’ve been a big fan of some of his recent moves, but that’s why when it comes down to it my first and second choice are still Kucinich and Edwards.
Kucinich’s stand on almost every issue is completely or at least almost completely in line with my own. And Edwards has me convinced that he’s serious about shooting straight about the way things really work in Washington.
Sorry OT, Graham drops opposition to Mukasey in exchange for Bush fundraiser. Thinkprogress
I with Dodd on this one…
Thanks for dissecting this, Pach. It pissed me off too, but you make the reason clear.
pach! Dodd’s “senior moment”, or however it gets spun, was just plain sad.
Lockdown at a Nuke plant. Phoenix.
Steve-AR @ 4
Feingold has long held a position that the president should have great latitude in his appointments.
The issue Pach is writing about is fraught with policy difficulties.
The real solution–and Dodd should go find it–is to enforce current immigration laws that apply to employers. Not to penalize employees, but to fine employers who hire illegal immigrants, and, in doing so violate US labor law.
And, yes, in an environment where illegal immigration will be permitted–which is the environment we are in now–Spitzer’s proposal makes a great deal of sense.
I’d rather see undocumented immigrants licensed. I think I’ll have to write to Dodd and tell him what I think on this.
I keep saying that each of the candidates has one good idea: what I’m hoping is at least one of them will have three or four good ideas.
A driving license is a privilege? Sure, if you’re 16.
I thought a driver’s license was something that was used to make sure people could drive before they got behind the wheel of 2500 lbs of steel.
These people are crazy.
Pach, I agree with you about Spitzer’s plan. I support it.
My problem with Hillary’s response was the vagueness. I wish she said said an unequivocal “yes” to the question of whether she supports it - or else said “I support what he’s trying to do but have some concerns about his approach.”
The only one who appeared to unequivocally support Spitzer was Obama. Check out his answer. Frankly, that surprised me.
Last week I went to a private house party for my congressman Harry Mitchell AZ-05 and in the discussion on immigration put out some interesting views. He had been approached by several congressman who were surprised Mitchell did not have the Lou Dobbs view vs advocating for comprehensive reform. This was found in the D’s & R’s.
Mitchell’s view was those from states who had high unemployment were the most adamant to penalize undocumented persons. His point is why would a workforce try to find jobs in an area where everyone is having trouble finding jobs or here in AZ where you see “Hiring” signs everywhere.
Driving is a privilege but my view is that I would prefer to know that the driver next to me on the freeway going 65-70mph has passed a written & skill based driver’s test AND their vehicle has passed some inspection to be on the road. But then I take safety over bashing especially when my three kids are now driving.
Loo Hoo @ 11
It is probably bogus. It is a pipe with a cap on it. Must be because of a major Friday newsdump or something.
Hmmm….Condi’s getting subpoened over AIPAC spy case..but she’ll probably say she’s too busy or something..
Pachu; Dobbs has always shown this streak. And this election, the issue of “illegal immigrants” (and really, all immigrants) is the GOP’s hole-card for trying get the voters minds off Iraq
Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you Pach.
Having drivers on the road who know the laws and have proof of insurance protect all of us. The issue is being distorted and exploited by folks who benefit from the chaos they create.
What else might we be talking about, were we not bogged by this bagatelle?
Loo Hoo @ 12
[snipped]
The comparison I think Dodd was reaching for is this:
1. For health care — when children get sick in schools, they should be treated, regardless of immigration status. To leave them untreated exposes everyone to communicable diseases and affects everyone via emergency care costs, etc.
2. For driver’s license (the argument goes) — others are not affected if undocumented immigrants can’t get a license.
Just stating #2 clearly shows it to be indefensible. It’s clear that unlicensed drivers do/can have an impact on everyone, if they are neither trained (drivers’ ed and passing a test) or are uninsured, or we have no way of contacting/finding them following an accident). So the ability to get a license shouldn’t depend on immigration status. Everyone who drives should have a license.
The arguments for different categories of licenses has, I think, been misstated. Homeland Security doesn’t want “illegals” using DL as the I.D. needed to get on a plane. If that view has merit, it’s not an argument against providing DLs; it’s an argument for marking the DL as “can’t be used for I.D. at airports,” etc. In effect, that’s what Spitzer’s compromise is reaching for, I suspect.
We already have different types of licenses, for different types of vehicles. I can’t drive large trucks, or motorcycles, without a special license. We also mark DLs with “corrective lenses only” for those who can’t see a lick or drive safely without them.
The real concern of the LouDobbsians is clearly anti-immigrants: that any type of DL is a way of accepting people into society. Any notion of “acceptance” = “amnesty” in their simplistic views, and they don’t want any part of that notion. However, if immigrants were required to wear tags saying, “Illegal and subject to deportation,” they’d be just fine with those I.D.s, I suspect.
I wonder if they’ll have a representative at ICE at all DMV’s, and arrest them when they come in to get a license. I’m serious.
RJ Eskow @ 16
I agree, but I thought her next day statement was better, and frankly, with the way the whole debate was structured by NBC as attack Clinton night, I cut her a bit of slack in this particular exchange, even though she does have a habitual pattern of obfuscation.
P J Evans @ 14
Edwards and Kucinich both have an abundance of good ideas between them and MSM know and fear both, IMHO.
Immigration fears are being stirred up by the Repugs because they have nothing else to run on. It’s sickening.
And I hate seeing Democrats, who have plenty of other stuff to run on, pick up this racist crap.
The three tiered system is a bureaucratic nightmare. They should just give them the damn license, if they can drive! It’s not a passport! All a driver’s license does is say who you are, where you live, how old you are and that you passed your driving test. What’s the big fucking deal?!
LS @ 18
Not surprised….. this is the plant that was ordered for employees to have HONESTY training and has been in a year long inspection for failures. The plant has not been working at full capacity for over a year.
Get this….. it is the largest Nuke plant in the US right next to the 5th largest city in the US.
I wonder if the guy at the nuke plant is thinking, “Dayem, I should have remembered to remove the pipe bomb from the bed of my pick-up before going to work today”.
WTF???
I am missing something..Having and maintaining a driver’s permit is a privilege..it requires certain goals and standards to be obtained and maintained..given that, there is nothing that says that citizenship status needs to be a requirement. As Spitzer points out, there is a benefit to the State that it not be a requirement. I don’t understand why the fact that it is a privilege is so inflammatory.
As far as health care goes, it is currently a privilege, which is immoral.
I think I can see why undocumenteds might not want licenses - if they’re in an accident or get stopped for a traffic violation, they might very well be deported.
But being licensed should mean they’d demonstrated they know the traffic laws, and they’d be less likely to be in those situations. Also, with a license, it’s easier to get a bank account, a job, and so on - just having a legal ID is an improvement.
OK, so out here on the edge of the Pacific Ocean this is a huge issue. The trucks and cars that got caught in the I-5 tunnel fire in LA a couple of weeks ago left something like eight vehicles without drivers on-scene or reporting later, and presumed dead. The next day a CHP officer noted this happens all the time when an illegal crashes their car, they flee the scene, as they are driving without a license or on a fake license.
I know about five guys in my town without legal licenses driving around–no license, no insurance. I hired a guy who told me he had just moved here from Washington State and presented his Washington license with his Social Security card. Found out later his SS card was fake and his Washington license was probably fake—it didn’t matter, he couldn’t get a CA license since he didn’t have papers. He was driving my commercial vehicles around illegally and I had to let him go. Ugh.
This is stupid policy: knee-jerk anti-immigrant policy that threatens everyone on the highway. One would hope Chris Dodd starts paying attention, not just scoring cheap shots.
speaking of presidential candidates, check out kunich, he’s gonna start to make a move here, he will surely gain contributions and support, check this out from raw story;
link
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._1102.html
MSNBC just aired Edwards new ad that will put the Hillary campaign in a major snit. Sorry, no link yet.
Immigration is such a loaded issue IMO. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to be concerned, particularly the downward pressure it puts on all of our wages.
But too often the arguments become just a cover for someone’s racist sentiments.
Woops, clicked errantly…
…for trying to get the voters minds off the shitmire they’ve created in Iraq. As you rightly say, any democrat that helps them play it, is shaving points for the republicans.
As for your contention that Williams and Russert were asking misogynistic questions, simply because they were trying to get straight answers from the candidate whom you guys were rightly scouring back when she was supporting Joe Lieberman against Ned Lamont, I think it’s nonsense.
She’s the frontrunner, and she’s the frontrunner who is tapdancing and farting through one debate after another, and whom the MSM and the beltway democrats want us to annoint for our nominee without asking her any of the tough questions about her track record.
Here’s a misogynistic question:
Do you think Clinton’s vote to invade Iraq was a mistake?
Because, until Clinton herself can answer that, it means that she can’t say that the invasion ITSELF was a mistake.
And if she can’t say that invading Iraq was a mistake, would you tell us how you think she can be elected?
Steve-AR
I would argue you are missing something. Language like this occurs in a context. That context is known best by 1) the bigots who traffic is pseudo-legitimate sound bites to cover up a racist agenda and 2) the victims of that agenda.
That’s why we call this “dog whistle politics.” Only the ones with ears attuned to the signals can hear it, but they hear it loud and clear.
Notice Dodd is running Iowa ads all about what a nice, safe guy he is. Very different from the fighting progressive image he parlays around these parts.
I disagree with Chris Dodd, but I think you’re off your rocker to try to tag him with “dogwhistle, Lou Dobbs” smears, just because he went after Hillary Clinton.
You write, Dodd pretends not to know that under our system, health care is also a “privilege,” Pretends, nothing! Chris Dodd DOESN’T BELIEVE THAT. Chris Dodd considers health care to be a RIGHT. Calling him out like this, for arguing from the position he actually believes instead of the one you’d prefer to assign to him, is downright Limbaugh-ish itself.
Pachacutec @ 35
Got it!!
The stated concern of some on the right is that a DL can be used as ID to get on a plane. But in reality, a passport is now required for international plane travel. And very soon it will be required to cross the border by car, too.
And a DL is not now the official documentation to get into the US. I live in NYS and go to Canada often via Niagara Falls. The US Customs would always let me back into the US with my DL. But this summer I had my first problem. I got the evil eye & quite a lecture from the US Customs agent that my DL only proved I could pass a driving test. I should have had proof of citizenship with me.
I support Spitzer on this issue. And yes, Joe Bruno, ugh.
perris @ 31
Hip Hip Hooray!
I am not sure why the word “racist” was used against Sen. Dodd. Dodd has a lot of good ideas and a few not as good.
But is it racist to criticize unlimited illegal immigration. What race are illegal immigrants? How many more illegal immigrants should we allow, above the ten million here now? Is it fair to the legal immigrants who follow the law? Is it fair to the citizens whose jobs are taken? Is it fair to give H1-B visas to non-citizens? Is it fair to call Dodd a racist?
Gray Davis, Governor of California, was booted out of office because of this issue. The surest way for Democrats to lose, is to allow unlimited illegal immigration.
Now, I might be a foreigner, but isn’t the US run on a federal basis?
See, my green card says ‘United States of America’, because immigration and citizenship is a matter for the federal government.
But my drivers license says ‘State of North Carolina’, because the privilege of operating a motor vehicle is a matter for the state government.
That the card which certifies my ability to sit behind the wheel is used for other purposes is an issue for those people and groups who use it.
Spitzer’s initial plan was smart. It’s just fascinating that once more it’s the usual bunch of ladder-pulling third-genners in Albany who want to wreck it. Bruno? Cuomo? Pull that ladder just a bit harder, guys.
SufiLizard @ 33
If immigration is such a problem, why are practical solutions rejected as amnesty? Why are statistics invented to back up anti-immigration arguments? Why is the reality of the situation as it is, in this country right now, with millions of immigrants here, being hired because they are needed, totally ignored?
Frank33 @ 41
Actually, Gray Davis was recalled because of the California electricity crisis, a crisis due mostly to Enron’s market manipulations.
George Simian @ 43
Actually, amnesty seems awfully practical to me.
It was good enough for St. Ronnie the Duplicitous.
perris @ 32
In line with “our” push for Donna Edwards this week; Al Wynn has signed on as one of the 21 co-sponsors of the Impeach Cheney Bill. This along with his recent voting record shows how worried he is. He is turning left so fast that he is going to get “whip-lash”.
Steve-AR @ 4
This is my criticism of many Senators on the Mukasey nomination. They accuse him of equivocating on torture then they equivocate on whether they will support or vote against him.
Frank33 @ 40
There are very few citizen’s jobs taken by illegal immigrants. This myth is just created because it sounds true, but statistics prove that it is wrong.
marksb @31
In AZ we have abandoned cars at accident scenes, hit and runs is a weekly event. And the next issue is vehicles who are unsafe to be on the road who fall apart while going down the road and cause accidents.
So…. would you want to know that guy going 75 down the AZ freeway on your ride to the Grand Canyon has taken the written & driving test, insured their car and THAT car passed the inspection?
I do.
LS @ 23
or reading all insurance company data bases..
Why would anyone considered to be illegal be expected to waltz in any government office and sign up, provide their home address, for identification or a drivers license, for ICE, is beyond me.
Also, we already have a wonderful document in this country known as the international drivers license which any visitor may obtain and purchase insurance coverage while driving in the US with one. Perhaps the State of NY should just provide this service in their DMV offices.
newspaperbrat @ 33
This one?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/2/12255/5332
Goopers- like the invading Cortez- have burned their ships on the immigration issue- they’ve given up the hispanic vote for all practical purposes- so they might as well go for broke on the rascist vote- and they are. They have left no retreat.
I can remember Al Sharpton trying to shut down discussion of welfare reform by talking about how every criticism of the status quo was “reminiscent” of old, racist tropes.
We got our ass kicked on that one, too. How’s about we actually discuss issues - such as whether one has a greater right to health care than to a drivers’ license - on their merits, rather than calling people names because you can twist their words into something that kinda sorta sounds like something intended to appeal to racists?
In my opinion, Davis was drummed out of office because of his insistance on raising the car tax. That did him in.
George Simian @ 42
Well you have to admit this issue breaks in completely different ways than other issues. You have a lot of hard-core right wingers in favor of immigrant rights because the people who’s true allegiance is to the corporatocracy just love bringing in low wage workers.
And you often see those people on the same side of immigration issues as some genuine progressives who take their stance purely from a human rights perspective.
Then you have the racist (rather than corporate) right-wingers who just hate people with more than a certain level of melanin in their skin. For not good reason at all.
And they will often be on the same side as some other, economic progressives who believe in human rights, but have concern for the economic damage caused by illegal employers on middle and working class Americans.
The political landscape on immigration issues breaks down along some pretty funky lines you have to admit.
I’m not saying it’s an issue that should be avoided. I was just observing what a tricky little minefield of an issue it is.
If you haven’t put in your vote yet for best blog, get thee here:
http://2007.weblogawards.org/p.....1.php#more
Just came back from the golf course- didn’t play well- kept thinking “So this asshole can’t say that waterboarding is torture cause the answer is classified? “
Fucked me up all morning.
rwcole @ 52
Terrific summary, thanks.
LS @ 51
Yep! Would love to know the demographics airing this ad or how to find the info.
Given the demographics, if Hispanic support for Republicans in Texas drops by 10%, Texas will become a blue state by 2020. Think about what that would mean for the Electoral College map.
I thought Dodd distinguished himself in the last debate with accurate, clear, and consistent opinions.
OTOH Hillary couldn’t string two arguments together without weaseling over the differences.
It was a long night for Hillary. Costly, too.
Hugh @ 47
jayackroyd @ 13
That is quite true and he has been consistent in that position. The attack on the judiciary is one of the oldest and best organized of the VRWC programs. See Federalist Society. Ultimately it may be the most dangerous and most difficult to fix of all of the attack on our country. Because of Russ’s position on this, I can’t put him at the top of the progressive fighters. On the other hand, it may be expecting to much, for everyone to be a “Paul Wellstone”.
LS @ 18
Story here, where learn that AIPAC was acting as a “diplomatic back channel”. Offered without comment.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21599734/
Frank33 @ 41
The GOP wants undocumented workers flooding the US, because their base pays them. Undocumented workers actually pay more into the system than they take out. They also don’t ask questions, demand safer working conditions, or join unions.
Important, albeit brief, ThinkProgress post: Rice to face subpoena in spying case
Additional link: http://www.pennlive.com/newsfl.....washington
I am concerned about giving drivers licenses to Illego Immigrants. I think that their are many Democrats that have the same concern.
That’s not a racial statement. I don’t care about the ethnic background or the country of origin. Illegal immigrants should not be in this country.
Equal enforcement of every group is fine. The illegal Latino population is very large mainly due to access, proximity of countries and failure of their countries economic policies.
I still believe that cheap labor is the name of the game. Does one really believe that corporations, small business, and contractors, would be so interested in if wages weren’t surpressed? I also don’t like the term “undocumented because the next question is why are said persons undocumented? Because they are here illegally. Really, many of the illegal immigrants are documented with false documents.
Since when is it hatred to require people to abide by the law. I would love to see George Bush obey the law. Heck, I would be happy to see him have to take the consequences of breaking the law. That same outlook applies to those who violate immigration laws.
no I’m not going to do it….. I’m trying not…… I’m trying….OH hell….NO person is
illegalNO ONE… it is a frame that is used to dehumanize a class of persons.THEY are undocumented persons AND they are human beings.
rwcole @ 54
You’ve forgotten that the registration fee - not ‘car tax’, that’s a GOoper phrase - was lowered temporarily because there was a budget surplus. The GOoPers knew that - they only voted for it because it was a temporary rebate program - and then they had a hissy fit when the time was up and decided to recall him.
What I think about that maneuver is unprintable, and would probably break the servers. (What I think about people who buy luxury cars and then complain that they can’t afford the registration fees would certainly break the servers.)
Driving is a privilege. It was dirlled into you in high school. How quickly we forget. And health care, although treated like a privilege, is more of a universal right of a people on the planet. That’s how I took Dodd’s statement. Just because he doesn’t agree 100% on this issue doesn’t make him any less of a candidate. That he picked at the chosen one isn’t a travesty either. Hillary’s response was pathetic and Edwards and Obama haven’t had the decency to say what they believe, only attack.
Laws that ban common behavior that ordinary people regularly engage in are doomed to failure, and create contempt for the rule of law and a dangerous black market economy. If we banned lawn-mowing or beer tomorrow, do you think there wouldn’t be any more lawn-mowing or beer? Of course there would be - mowing the lawn and drinking beer are things that just about everybody does, or might potentially do.
It’s the same thing with moving to a new place to get a better job and live in a better neighborhood. It’s not something you can stop, just drive underground, and from every way you look at it - the rule of law, human rights, fairness, crime rates, structural/economic assimilation, even the depression of wages - having those people living in a black market is worse than having them as part of mainstream society.
It’s important to remember that the “immigration issue” was ginned up by Republicans for the 2004 elections. If you look back at polling, it wasn’t on anyone’s radar screen as a major issue until they started talking about it nonstop.
That’s not to say there are no policy problems to be resolved (obviously there are), but buying into the idea that this is a major political problem that has spontaneously come up from ordinary citizens is just playing into Republican hands.
My experience from the 2005 VA governor’s race (where the GOP candidate made it one of the major planks of his campaign) is that it’s not something for Democrats to be fearful of, because in there places where people actually have contact with immigrants, non-wingnuts don’t have much of a problem with them, and in the rural areas without immigrants, people are more anti-immigrant, but it’s not an immediate enough problem to affect their voting behavior. (Obviously the dynamics are different in border regions.)
Eureka Springs:
Uh, no. The IDL is just a supplement to an existing foreign licence.
Charles Riley @66:
That’s an ‘ought’ argument. Let’s address the ‘is’ argument, particularly on the state level, given that the governmental role of the state in national citizenship and immigration is precisely nil.
Pach,
Great post! I like Dodd, but he did pull out the dog whistle in a disapointing way. I hope someone takes you up on the Brunogate stuff.
katymine @ 67
You are so right Katymine! The politicians want a distraction from the anxiety most of us feel about the economy, our savings, our jobs and our freedoms. It is disgusting to blame folks who are trying to take care of their families. I’m very lucky, but in their shoes, I hope I’d have the courage to do the same thing.
po @ 69
Yeah. Bad grades = lose your license. What’s that all about?
Seriously: I can’t think of any other country which privileges the certificate of competence to operate an automobile and sticks it in so many different places it doesn’t belong.
1,645 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Pachacutec and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Go look at the Edwards ad folks and then strap it up and remember what the ol’ Norske toldja 2 weeks ago: “The Iowa caucuses are NOT in the bank for Mrs. Clinton, by a long shot”.
As far as Edwards’ prospects now, in the words of Hockey Night in Canada: He shoots, he SCORES!!
KEEP THE FAITH FIREPUPS, THE PRICE A POPCORN IN IOWA JEST DOUBLED!!
in the new country, perhaps we could consider multiple parties as sensible countries have?
that way, the rejuvenated gopp can scream at the muslim party, the progressives will have the influence that 25% of the entire population would deserve, instead of constantly having to settle for candidates that you would not invite to your home.
but all this assumes martial law and the end of democracy hasn’t all ready been planned, so let us stop fantasizing about what we have ahead of us. any of you have to drive to work? you won’t be able to in a few months. Have public transportation? not in 99.99% of the country. oil is gone, so has the reality we cling to so desperately
but keep a good thought, and be ready to help someone outside the system when we find out every candidate electable is also, corruptible. We need not be mutton on the hoof. but we will again have to make sacrifices that have been ignored
LS @ 51
Yes! Go Edwards!!!! The Campaign is heating up and I love it.
Edwards by a landslide…
Here in Albany, we get our fill of Bruno. He’s been gunning for Spitzer ever since the election, and he is himself currently under investigation for some pretty shady doings.
Well, we could try “lawbreakers, violators of immigration law, or even people in this country without the legal papers that are required by the laws of this nation”.
Calling desparate people human beings is circular. All desparate people are human beings. There are probably millions of people around the world that would like to come to the United states. People from Darfur, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Asia, etc. Raise legal immigration for all. If ya want, set priorities based on need. I suspect folks from Iraq and many countries in Africa would come to the top. That would be fine with me; but there must be limits. Massive populations willing to work cheaply brings down many of the labor standards that were earned by our ancestors who fought and gave their lives to gain them.
No. Dodd did not win the last Demo debate. I’m in agreement with Lahoma’s choice of who the winner of that debate was.
I agree that Dodd’s driver’s license answer at the debate was abysmal, and couldn’t come at a worse time for him. I was, for the first time, taking a serious look at him. No more.
Charles Riley @ 66
So, do you know what the legally prescribed consequences for illegal immigration are?
I don’t have a problem with the law being applied (though if a law that is so widely flouted, I think it’s doubtful that the problem can be solved purely through punishment.) However, I do have a big problem with the idea that someone who breaks this law is “an illegal” who deserves any consequences they suffer not just those prescribed by law (and no matter what ill effects those consequences have for the rest of us.)
Here in Oklahoma we have a lot of folks that “look” like immigrants. But they’re not. We have an old boy from around here, long since dead, who was fond of saying “My ancestors didn’t come over on the Mayflower, but they met ‘em at the boat”
Perhaps if America played fair with so called third world nations, we wouldn’t have ‘an immigration problem’.
Charles Riley @81
The Immigration issue has a two part view…
1. Home country - economic and safety issues which spurs their people to migrate. Poverty, war, famine and genocide are pretty big reasons to move along to a better life
2. Corporations and HOMEOWNERS who are willing to violate employment laws and hiring undocumented workers.
So how would you solve this these issues?
Mine would be to prevent wars, assist countries to develop thriving economies and NOT subvert their labor force using micro loans, treaties that do not destroy their economy. Then go after the employers who are willing to violate the law for cheap labor.