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Elliot Spitzer rightly called out Lou Dobbs for his race baiting in the New York drivers' license controversy this morning (Crooks and Liars has the video):
SPITZER: Look, I’m not going to demean myself by getting into a back and forth with somebody who on TV spews venom, hate and fundamental misinformation. Of course not. He knows it.
As I said, it’s beneath me, it’s beneath my office, to, in any way, involve myself with Lou Dobbs. And I think his knowing spread of venom is beneath CNN as well.
Lou, of course, just flipped his shit:
The governor should know better than to inject racism into a debate about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens or any other debate of public policy.
Well, Lou, that is of course the appropriate thing to do when that's what someone is engaging in.
Dobbs then went on to put up this poll:
Do you believe it is racist to enforce US immigration laws to secure our ports and borders?
I'm sure Lou feels mightily vindicated that the vote is 98% "no" but that isn't what Spitzer claimed, not by a long shot. The chiron then flashed "Fears of Massive Voter Fraud," and I'm waiting for somebody to say there's a risk with these drivers' licenses of massive voter fraud, but it turns out the person who's worried about that is...Lou Dobbs.
Let's remember that Richard Clarke has said that Spitzer's plan will make the country more secure because "it is far preferable for the state to know who is living in it and driving on its roads." And according to AAA, Spitzer's plan will reduce accidents. Spitzer also says it will save New York drivers' $120 million a year in insurance costs.
But Dobbs isn't interested in a serious discussion of the matter -- he's engaging in straw men and throwing red meat to his racist base. While there are many good reasons to support immigration reform, there are also quite a few bad ones and Dobbs takes no responsibility for the fact that his inflammatory rhetoric and long-winded dissembling make him a propagandist and not a journalist who appeals to the worst elements within the immigration reform crowd.
Anyway, watch Spitzer. It's priceless. Haven't enjoyed watching anyone nail Dobbs quite so much since Laura Flanders took her best shot.
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Dobbs…Ugh.
Aw man, LS again!
racists are stupid.
hi jane!!!
Gotta love the ol’ Spitzer Bitch-slap!
Dobbs should stick to business reporting and leave his politics in the greenroom.
Lovely….pbbbbt
Lou Dobbs is a wicked racist. I can’t even listen to the man speak anymore because all he says is how much he hates the illegals and you know damn well he’s ONLY talking about the Mexican ones. Never have I heard him say that the illegals from Ireland must go home! Spit. I can’t stand Lou Dobbs.
Speaking of “racism”, Mike Gravel has been pushed out of tonight’s democratic debate, so he’s holding his own live-stream debate tonight ACROSS THE STREET from the real one. If you want to join in (he’ll be answering the questions asked of the others in real-time), go here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/.....-mt-9pm-et
Fun times. ;-) I love it when anyone pushes against the machine!
I’m sorry, but being a NYS resident, I feel that Spitzer is the D party’s W. A tone-deaf authoritarian who comes from a privileged family & thinks he can do anything he wants. I no longer care whether he is on the right or wrong side of particular issues. His behavior is totally out of bounds.
Closet mexican?
Even though Dobbs an arrogant bastard. He is right on this one. The race card can be so overused it is “worn out”
I have never heard Dobbs complain about the Swedish bikini team as a problem. Methinks this is about brown people!
I was watching some of Dobbs today, he was spitting venom left and right! I had to change the channel for my own self-preservation…
SnarKassandra @ 3
Hi, Cassie!
you guys are gonna get SUCH a kick out of THIS
from kunich;
man, that should get him some extra point in the polling
CTuttle @ 11
It’s interesting to watch Dobbs sputter away because it was the very picture and words I use when talking about W. arrogant abuse of office. disdain for truth and the citizens who elected him. Yeah, I know how you feel, Lou!!!
Spitzer slaps “socioethnocentric”cidal spewer of snake sap! Go Spitzer!
pablo @ 10
I’m not sure about that. Dobbs started his rant during Clinton’s NAFTA deal, and always argued in favor of U.S. workers and against anything that could hurt them. That was his focus, more like a traditional populist. Now that’s morphed into immigration. Much about the immigration debate is about racism, but I’m not sure Dobbs is.
But then, I stopped listening to his rant years ago, so it’s possible he’s revealed racism in the interim.
lou dobbs concern troll for Pat Buchanan
he thinks Georgette Mossbacher is a middle class republican
katherine Graham Cracker @ 17
Very nicely put.
Well, geez, I agree with Dobbs. And I don’t think he has a problem with brown skin seeing as how he’s married to a Mexican.
puppydog @ 9
What word would you use to describe it, then?
Let’s remember that this is an organization that flies nazi flags at its gatherings.
I really don’t think there’s another word for it, though “bigot” might also be appropos.
Heh, Thomas DeFrank will be on with Rachel Maddow shortly…
http://www.airamerica.com/listen/
Liberal Heart @ 19
Interesting. In the old days when I occassionally listened to him, I never got the feeling that he was defending white culture or anything like that, unlike others who rant about immigration.
See me @16 for where Dobbs came from.
I don’t agree with him for 2 reasons: he’s completely unrealistic and undocumenteds don’t, for the most part, do jobs that compete with U.S. workers. I don’t listen to him anymore because he’s johnny one-note.
CTuttle @ 21
you giving the play by play? or should I say blow by blow?
My mom looks Mexican but her family was in Texas before any of the white people came here. But her skin is brown and so is mine. And we’re just as American as anyone else.
eCAHNomics @ 22
Politely, which jobs would those be?
eCAHNomics, I don’t see the immigration issue as being about race — and I don’t think Dobbs does, either (which puts me in agreement with you). I see it as being about the law. I married an immigrant. He got here the right way: legally.
newtonusr @ 25
Do a hard refresh. I edited the comment to read
for as soon as I posted, I saw I had not said what I meant. Sorry.
As a former NYS resident, I can tell you that Elliot Spitzer did more for this country as NYS Attorney General than anyone else. Do you think the Bush AGs would have taken on Wall Street Brokerage firms or insurance giant AIG?
Sandman @ 28
He did it by bullying them. Know anyone else who uses that technique?
Dobbs, is a Populist, an arrogant bastard even, yet, I would say that Bigot is a bit harsh! I vehemently oppose the Minutemen, but, labeling Dobbs a bigot for supporting them, is painting with a mighty broad paint brush…
eCAHNomics @ 27
been there, done that
Good for Spitzer! He never called Dobbs a racist. He called him out for his venom and hatred. Later in the interview, he said SOME people spout racist venom.
That question of the day Dobbs put up was just plain silly. The way it was worded, I’m surprised it wasn’t 100% no.
Dump Pelosi
SnarKassandra @ 24
That you are Missie, that you are…! *g*
newtonusr @ 31
Whew. While I was editing I was hoping that no one picked it up, but wasn’t fast enuf for you.
eCAHNomics @ 29
How do you bully a company that can afford lawyers for hundreds of years?
Sandman @ 35
Talk louder and never smile.
Elliott @ 23
Click on the link, or are you dial-up impaired?
Liberal Heart @ 19
Goodnacious, who knew?
Elliot Spitzer was the guy spewing pure hate, venom, and racism IMHO. Multiple times, too.
What’s with the constant fear rhetoric, anyway. There hasn’t been a terrorist act in this country since 9/11.
SnarKassandra @ 36
Yo casserooo
raven @ 38
Hiya Raven!
CTuttle @ 37
Be nice. Maybe she can’t hear.
Sandman @ 35
Easy. By threatening to tie them up for years and years and years. Keeping their names in the newspaper. If was well worth negotiated settlements to get the monkey off your back.
I just got his biography in my last shipment, but haven’t read it yet. The title is “Spoiling for a Fight.”
I’ve watched W closely long enough to recognize the behaviors. I don’t want people like that to have power, even if I agree with them on the issues.
SnarKassandra @ 36
That’s Bill O’Reilly, but it only works on TV.
SnarKassandra @ 41
you’re right I was having trouble hearing !! :)
Sandman @ 42
and for the assistant principal
SnarKassandra @ 40
Goodness, Senorita, I wasn’t scolding Elliot! 8-)
“impaired” sounds scolding
actually the whole thing sounds bullying
Elliot helped Larry secure his billions.
SnarKassandra @ 47
Like your Assistant Principal…? ;-)
eCAHNomics @ 42
I think some of those mucky mucks should have been tried, I didn’t like him letting them pay fines. it was criminal behavior imo
SnarKassandra @ 48
Careful not to read too much into what other folks write. It is fraught with peril.
eCAHNomics @ 41
Exxon/Mobil just now is getting to the Supreme Court trying to get a 2.5 billion judgment Exxon Valdez reduced or eliminated, so some large companies are willing to go to court for a long time.
But if you don’t like Spitzer, I respect your opinion.
Elliott @ 51
Yep. That’s one of the problematic outcomes that arise if you bully instead of using the rule of law.
I thought SnarKassandra was being snarky!
Elliott @ 50
They settled to avoid criminal charges, and, I agree that Spitzer let them off too lightly…
I think Lou is ready to be carried out
with a strait jacket.This could get scary!
Elliott @ 54
no
fran @ 57
what would come out of his head if it exploded?
Sandman @ 53
Yes, some companies are willing to draw it out to the bitter end but most aren’t, especially those in the financial business that suffer more than an oil company would by constantly being in the news for bad behavior.
There was no downside, and huge upside for ExxonMobil–the fine could only go down. But reputations are important in the financial industry so the calculation worked the other way around.
SnarKassandra @ 58
well anyway :)
pablo @ 10
Exactly! LOL
Liberal Heart @ 26
all of your ancestor’s get here legally too?
can’t say that about mine… so i’m not so comfortable pulling the ladder up after me and my family.
SnarKassandra @ 48
It was bullying with Spitzer giving Dobbs one cheap shot after another.
I doubt Spitzer is man enough to face Dobbs one-on-one and debate the issue. Whereas, Dobbs would debate Sptizer in a heart beat.
Elliott @ 59
goooo.
I don’t comment often but I do read posts and comments regularly. I find that this issue often brings out the worst in people, including racism and bigotry.
I live in a city in Southern California that has a designated day labor area, and has had such for over 10 years. Last year, a local woman decided that the city was supporting illegal immigrants and she organized protests of the day labor site.
I happened to be driving by the first day of the protests and most of the protesters had signs stating that they were not racists but were asking for the law to be upheld. I found their lack of self awareness incredible, even though I am aware of that character trait, because they could not see that they presumed the day laborers were illegal because they are Hispanic.
In fact, I know some of the men who seek work at the day labor area are legal immigrants looking for extra money through odd jobs. They work at other jobs during the week. Some own their own businesses.
The protesters have a bias against these people based solely on their national origin or the color of skin. That is bigotry and is emblematic of so much of this debate.
KO time, and he starts with a bang; “His Petulancy…!” 8-)
Elliott @ 58
Ann Coutler
Millineryman @ 68
lmao!
I just finished parent conferences in a 70% Hispanic school. I don’t know the status of their documentation, but I can tell you that I saw either mom only or nobody on all of the whites except one, and both parents on half of the Hispanic kids. On about a quarter of the Hispanic conferences, there was extended family beyond both parents. And keep in mind, they were losing hourly wages by attending. These people value education.
Millineryman @ 67
DING!
SnarKassandra @ 41
how did you get to be so wise at such a young age? i’m 47 and still working on it. (just had to you a nod for that one)
selise @ 71
Cause I live with someone who is disabled and I am friends with someone else who doesn’t hear.
Loo Hoo @ 70. This is an example of why people are so afraid of the Hispanic population, whether documented or not. Much of the rhetoric is simply about “immigrants” without distinguishing status. Being the child of “immigrants”, I find the use of such loose language frightening because I believe that the anti-immigration proponents do not want to distinguish between documented and undocumented.
Liberal Heart @ 26
Some laws are more important than others, and some should be changed.
When I said that much of the immigration argument was about racism, I was talking about those who argue that there’s a white European culture here that needs to be protected, or others who evidence fear of the “other” one way or another.
Actually, I think we don’t need to do anything about immigration. Most of the undocumenteds came in during during the Clinton Administration. Nobody thought it was a problem back then. It became a “problem” at precisely the moment that W brought it up and talked it up because he thought it was was a political winner. Another one of his major miscalculations.
Now, as an exercise to learn how futile all this talk is, try this calculation. How many buses over how many years would it take to send them home, assuming you could find them? I think a bus usually holds about 50 people.
Nancy P must have gotten a bottle of spine on–she took to Georgie P
selise @ 70
That she is, Selise! However, I meant no harm, Cassie, when I asked Elliot! *g*
SnarKassandra @ 73
a friend of mine has a very hard time hearing and she’s tried to teach me how oblivious most of us are to her difficulties. thank you for reminding me too.
SnarKassandra @ 72
Good for you Cassie!
I have a few times in my long reading at FDL encountered commenters who have said they were deaf or hearing impaired. They usually didn’t reveal that until it became an issue- e.g. asking for a transcript, and someone saying why do you need a transcipt, just listen to it (dummy). Only a very few times. But still.
And, I know of at least one reader in the past who was/is blind- using a translation program to read the threads.
Selise, nobody’s pulling up the ladder. There are legal ways to enter this country. And yes, my anecestors all (as far as I know) came here legally. But even if they hadn’t, I would not be in favor of people breaking immigration laws.
I suppose one solution would be to get rid of all our laws. Or should we each just pick from a menu which laws we’ll obey?
selise @ 78
Come on now, “dial up impaired” had nothing to do with any disabilty, it was about internet connectivity.
Liberal Heart @ 79
We already pick from a menu about which laws we choose to obey/enforce. Nothing new about that.
Except for Rs, who choose to obey no laws.
CTuttle @ 77
i know you didn’t. but the possibility of a hearing difficulty didn’t occur to me until cassie’s comment… and like i said, i’ve been working on being more aware. obviously, i need a lot more work.
SnarKassandra @ 58
The problem can be the same here at the Lake as with other electronic communication (e-mail, text msgs). There’s no body language, tone of voice, etc. that we all use subconsciously in any face-to-face conversation to understand the speaker’s meaning. So the words can be easy to misread, and it might be useful to remind ourselves of that once in awhile as we read these threads…
well I thought they were both teasing. and I can hear but I missed the part where CT posted the link, so in effect I didn’t hear his comment very well.
confusion. but no ill will intended
perris @ 13
His Brit bride is beautiful and according to my neighbor she was interviewed on a cable tv show earlier today and was quite articulate & charming. If anyone here saw the interview I’d love to know what network or even bettah - a linky.
raven @ 79
Ding! Mahalo, Raven!
The problem can be the same here at the Lake as with other electronic communication (e-mail, text msgs). There’s no body language, tone of voice, etc. that we all use subconsciously in any face-to-face conversation to understand the speaker’s meaning. So the words can be easy to misread, and it might be useful to remind ourselves of that once in awhile as we read these threads…
And we wonder why there are these nasty battles about I/P.
Liberal Heart @ 80
Respectfully, if you are going to suddenly begin to enforce laws, you might start with the sources of demand - corporations. Enticing folks north and cutting them off at the knees ain’t cool.
raven @ 88
Exactly!
nespaperbrat @ 85
Here’s a link to her appearance on TDS, but it’s deinitely NOT what you’re looking for.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....r-a-flilf/
CTuttle @ 86
CT- I think it’s been sorted out now. And we’re among friends. Think of the misunderstanding as being good in some ways- elicited some very thoughtful comments. Mahalo.
msmolly @ 90
Heh. Especially when us techno-geeks think I/P is Internet Protocol! *g*
eCAHNomics, I don’t favor going out in search of anyone with an eye toward deporting them, but I do think Spitzer’s drivers’ license idea is nuts. The message is: “Don’t come here illegally, but if you do, come get a legal driver’s licerse.” Wow, talk about mixed messages…
newtonusr @ 87
Are corporations enticing them? Or, is it the Great American Dream? Hmmm… *g*
newspaperbrat @ 86
Don’t know if this is what you are talking about from Crooks & Liars. The cable network is Comedy Central for this.
Spitzer’s wrong to embrace the Real ID, it’s creating an internal passport in this country. Another freedom (traveling freely) being stripped away from us in the name of security, done in an incremental fashion so we don’t realize what we’re losing until it’s too late. He should have stuck to his original idea.
Real ID was looking like it was losing lots of support, but Spitzer has just given it a huge boost. He’s just another Democratic politician who’s being cowed into submitting to the worst kind of totalitarianism coming from the right.
Liberal Heart @ 93
The issue on drivers’ licenses, as I understand it, is that if you don’t have a driver’s license, you can’t get auto insurance. But the undocumenteds have to drive to get to their jobs. So currently they drive uninsured vehicles, which is a risk to everyone else on the road.
CTuttle @ 95
It’s both and the bottom line is we can’t get by without them. They have become absolutely essential to our economy- at least here in Ca. and I suspect from what I read in other places in USA as well.
CTuttle @ 95
When I read that, I thought, yeah, and banks entice bank robbers to rob ‘em….
Liberal Heart @ 80
then, i think you are pretty unusual. i seriously wonder how many americans can say that (certainly cassie’s mom and your husband).
if i’m ok with some of my ancestors getting here without the approval of the people who were already here… and am ok with preventing other people from doing the same… well, that does seem like pulling the ladder up after my family. but maybe i’m missing something?
re: picking and choosing which laws to follow - i take that means you’ve never exceeded the speed limit?
Mukasey’s response to the question “Is waterboarding torture?” is up over TPMmuckraker. Horsesh*t Alert!
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c.....age=1&
Ya see, it’s a hypothetical so he can’t give a straight answer. Instead he goes on and on about what his legal reasoning would be if he were going to answer the question. Since he refers to the same “shocks the conscience” language of SCOTUS that was used in the Bradbury memo, I think we know where that reasoning would go.
Personally, I feel that if Mukasey thinks waterboarding is so hypothetical he should, for the good of the country, volunteer to undergo it so that his opinion would be based on the “actual facts”.
Mukasey clearly does not understand the function of the Attorney General’s job. I think he thinks it is the same as the one for Biggest Weasel in the universe. Despite Abu’s tenure there, it is not.
The people who hire these illegals are just as guilty as anyone. Why don’t they bust all the companies that use undocumented workers?
Lou Dobbs is a one note samba. The bushies have been breaking laws left and right. Where’s the outrage?
If folks are interested in accessibility and websites you can use this
http://www.cynthiasays.com/
puppethead @ 96
Yep. AND the current scheme on undocumenteds’ drivers’ licenses is to issue them a special one (Spitzer’s talking about 3 types of licenses, with the undocumenteds’ one being useful only for driving & getting insurance, not for ID under any other circumstance), which is like painting a target on their backs.
Twain @ 99
Both. In GA there was a huge pushback from Republican chicken farmers (at least one in the Senate) bec. his business (skinning chickens) relied on undocumented workers. (will try to find link)
raven @ 81
that’s why i appreciated cassie’s comment. i hadn’t considered the possibilty of hearing difficulties - since i’m trying to be more aware of that possibility i was impressed that cassie would think of it.
Valley Girl @ 106
They are seriously shcitzo here in GA. One of the Atlanta suburbs tried to make it illegal to have non-English names of businesses.
Georgia’s Governor is Sonny Perdue, yes of Perdue Chickens!!
eCAHNomics @ 98
I thought the car had to be insured in-order to get plates. I can’t renew by plates without proof of insurance and having paid my county taxes. So how do undocumented, unlicensed driver get tags for their cars without insurance?
Sandman @ 109
Nope
Perdue was born in Perry, Georgia and grew up in a small town called Bonaire. His father was a farmer and his mother was a teacher. As a youngster he flew a crop duster and has maintained his pilot’s license since.
Perdue has been known as Sonny since childhood and prefers to be called by that name (he signs official documents as “Sonny Perdue”).
Perdue played quarterback at Warner Robins High School and was a walk-on at the University of Georgia, where he was also a member of the Kappa Sigma Fraternity (Beta-Lambda chapter).
Perdue was in the Air Force rising to the rank of Captain before his discharge.
In 1971 he earned his Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.) from the University of Georgia College of Veterinary Medicine and worked as a veterinarian before becoming a small business owner, eventually starting three small businesses.
Sorry, I fixed my use of “Democrat politician”. I was changing the structure of my sentence on the fly, I don’t want anyone to think I’m a wingnut.
Valley Girl @ 106
I remember reading about a town in Alabama or Georgia where everything was booming and all the businesses were doing really well and ICE came in and the entire economy was destroyed overnight. The people who had always lived there were just stunned and had no idea what to do.
Hugh,
Tomorrow is the 490th anniversary of Martin Luther nailing his 95 Theses on the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg.
Tomorrow, will you be nailing Hugh’s List on the door of the Capitol in Washington?
puppethead @ 112
Good pick up..”Democrat politician” usually = troll.
Twain @ 99
Only because the employers can get away with it.
Elliott @ 112
Heh, that would create a similar schism…! 8-)
Frank Perdue (May 9, 1920 – March 31, 2005), born in Salisbury, Maryland, was for many years the president of Perdue Farms, now one of the largest chicken-producing companies in the United States. His promotion of the Perdue brand through high-profile advertising resulted in its being the first well-known brand of chicken in the U.S.[1] He turned over leadership of Perdue Farms to his son, Jim Perdue, in 1991.
Perdue developed a specialized chicken-feed that included marigold blossoms, which imparted a characteristic golden yellow hue to the skins of his chickens.[1]
Perdue is also noted for having appeared in over 200 of Perdue Farms’ television commercials, although he was also known for his shyness as well.[2]
He attended Salisbury State University, now known as Salisbury University, whose business school is named after him.
Steve-AR @109
Got me there. My knowledge of this subject was thoroughly exhausted by what I previously wrote. In listening to a few segments on the subject on NYC NPR, no one ever asked that Q. My guess is that they buy a used car with plates & never reregister it. Is that possible?
The trouble with undocumented workers (and one of the main reason the corp’s like them) is they have no power to fight.
If their paycheck is short, too bad. If it bounces, good luck. They can be paid under the table for less than minimum wage in places like GA (in CA, it’s higher) and so they do take jobs away from people already here.
Trouble is, Bush’s “fix” would have just kept the same problem with guest workers having no rights. It would only have helped the business that hires them by allowing them to not be breaking the law.
I opposed the law change, too.
I can’t listen to Lou anymore, too one track.
Steve-AR @ 110
I just renewed my car and didn’t have to show proof of insurance this year for the first time. Maybe it’s a California Big Brother thing.
ya get a chicken and ya kill it
and ya put it in the skillet
and ya fry it till it’s golden brown
that’s southern cookin!
eCAHNomics @ 119
Not where I live. About 10 years ago I missed my renewal, three weeks later I was stopped by State police for expired tags.
Liberal Heart @ 116
I wouldn’t do the labor they are willing to do. “Stoop Labor” - the most awful. The chemicals used on the plants and trees are very harmful and they breathe them all day every day. It’s back-breaking work. I passed Home Depot the other day and there must have been 100 day laborers in the parking lot. If I had had anything one of them could do I would have stopped. I don’t even have a lawn to mow since I live in a condo - privileged me.
raven- btw, I myself was not thinking of Perdue when I wrote that comment. Another GA legislator. But, didn’t want to name names, unless I could find a link to make sure I was remembering the name/names correctly.
Elliott @ 114
I didn’t realize the timing. I’m out here in the Midwest. My hammer won’t stretch that far. Besides BushCo would no doubt consider it a “terrorist attack”. *g*
But we certainly do need a “No More” moment.
Valley Girl @ 125
NP, just making sure we are all on the same page.
there are trolls here today, right?
Steve-AR @ 123
of late there have been reports of the sale of the little stickers we use on our plates to show we ‘re registered for that year. You sell your sticker, drive without yours but have proof you’re registered. duunno how big a problem it is, but that’s one way.
SnarKassandra @ 128
me
newtonusr @ 89
i think we also have to consider what our trade policies have done to people in mexico.
briefly, iirc, between 1-2 million people were forced off their land because they could no longer compete with the subsidized agribusiness products that were dumped on mexico after nafta. many of them ended up as sweatshop labor at the mexico/usa boarder. then when the usa gave most favored nation trading status to china, many of those sweatshop moved to china. leaving behind unemployed workers who, because they had left their land, could no longer feed their children by subsistance farming.
still, i don’t think this was initially such a big problem for american workers… but as the job situation has continued to deteriorate… emotions are running higher.
imo, there are two things to do to “fix” this “problem”:
1) better trade policies (neoliberal policies have not been good for workers here or elsewhere)
2) better job oportunities here - for everyone.
Loo Hoo. @ 121
I usually don’t have to either. The insurance co sends the data directly to the DMV..that way tags can be renewed on-line.
Steve-AR @ 110
In Minnesota we used to have to provide our insurance policy number when renewing tabs. A few years ago it was changed so now we just sign a piece of paper saying we agree to keep the vehicle insured. So no way for the state to check, no consequences for not having insurance. Sure it’s against the law to drive without insurance, but it’s also against the law to drive without a license.
raven @ 130
the OTHER kind.
Loo Hoo- is this what you mean by big brother?
Where I am I haven’t had to show proof of insurance for at least a few years. Went to get out my insurance documents, and was told, oh we don’t need that. Why? Oh, it’s all in the computer.
Jeremy Schahill on KO.
raven @ 129
What would the mods do if someone used ‘troll’ for a screen name?
Liberal Heart @ 116
Correct. And if folks can’t work because the law is appropriately tough on employeers, Congress would have to act to keep the economy moving… path to citizenship, etc. There are simply not enough workers with citizenship.
Elliott @ 129
Our sticker is inside the windshield.
puppethead @ 97
completely agree. real id is a very bad idea…
SnarKassandra @ 134
Do you know about the Seattle Bridge Troll check out the VW in his hand.
Blackwater has had a policy of Spray and Pray.
Completely OT, but these are brave, beautiful people.
World’s bravest orchestra plays on in Iraq
Reuters
THE ORCHESTRA PLAYED ON: When the Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra holds a concert, organisers don’t like to advertise: in fact they would prefer as few people as possible know about it.
When the Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra (INSO) holds a concert in Baghdad, organisers don’t like to advertise: in fact they would prefer as few people as possible know about it.
Welcome to the bravest orchestra in the world.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4254595a12.html
In michigan you can’t renew your tags without proof of insurance and it’s against the law to drive without it. One of those nasty catch 22’s in a state where the public transit pretty much sucks and there’s no passenger rail of any note for long stretches of highway. It’s yet another drain on my meager wages.
eCAHNomics @ 137
They’d say “you’re such a Cassandra!”
Loo Hoo. @ 142
I think it’s “spray the prey”.
raven @ 141
lol
Hugh @ 126
No problem!
Let’s all email it around to our Senators, Representatives, friends, neighbors, coworkers, and acquaintances. We can do it tomorrow. Flood the tubeZ with Hugh’s List of the crimes of this administration.
You may even get your own diet of worms, eh?
.
seems like everyday there’s a new outrage! No more!
aliasofwestgate @ 144
But lots of families have one car that a whole family shares. You can get a license and not have your own car. I am doing that on Thursday or Friday !!!!!!
OT:
How is the blackwater immunity a “deal breaker” (its a ball breaker on the Constitution for sure…), would it not be odds on that even allowed to say anything that would not be admitted that they lied anyway out of preference. Also could investigation ask them some questions or use the other public reports from the time?
SnarKassandra @ 147
And, if you have quicktime
Cassandra: You never should have looked for her. Now I see big trouble
Lenny: You’re such a Cassandra.
Cassandra: I am not “such” a Cassandra. I “am” Cassandra.
Valley Girl @ 135
That’s what I mean!
Blackwater should not be exempt. Soldiers aren’t.
AnnieW @ 120
Where I live in central FL, strawberry farms are real big, and have been for decades. Some years ago, a local strawberry bigwig was caught scamming his workers like this:
He would only hire workers he was certain were undocumented. Pay them their first paycheck-then have them work for two weeks…and right before their next pay was due, he’d call INS and have all of ‘em picked up and deported…then start hiring a new group. Got away with this for years…paid a fine when caught, and business as usual ensued. It would take, a few years later, him nearly beating a worker to death with a chain to put him away. He accused the worker of “stealing”.
Irony one could cut with an axe.
SnarKassandra @ 153
Exactly. But there are currently more “contractors” in Iraq then soldiers, and they are coloring the views of even the Iraqis that were relatively sympathetic to us.
Excellent post, great to know. I saw Lou Dobbs turn a while back and lucky Countdown is still on with KO.
puppethead @ 146
Yeah, that works too.
Face Book event - Portland OR
FDL pup meeting
theotherwash and I will be meeting up on 11/3 at 3pm at:
Blue Moose
4936 N.E. Fremont St
Portland, Oregon
Anyone in the area can join us…
Mash up. Mask up.
Is the Lincon - Douglas Debate on tonight?
In southern CA the day laborers are getting a bit better of holding unpaying contractor’s feet to the fire.
They’ll surround a car/truck and yell he doesn’t pay, or he cheats, etc. don’t work for him. Trouble is, even as I’ve seen this, some desperate guy steps forward and gets in the truck.
It sucks.
Nancy Nord the Bronze for opposing increasing CSPB increases
Norm Podheretz the Silver for equating opposition to Iran bombing to Hitler appeasement
BungleO BillO the Gold for stalking Rosie ODonnell for not appearing on his show.
AnnieW @ 155
On the contractor body count, most of them do jobs like KP. IIRC, the number of contractors bearing arms is in the neighborhood of 20,000, many of who do things like guard nonmilitary convoys. Still a large number of mercenaries, though.
eCAHNomics @ 162
Quit with the facts.
Why does KO report on britney and paris? who cares?
KO just got one wrong on worst person. He named Nancy Nord for saying she doesn’t want changes in her department, Consumer Safety.
The truth is, she would love to have her budget doubled, more labs, etc., but is precluded from saying so by the administration.
SnarKassandra @ 164
Britney’s mother is writing a book on parenting…..snort
yellowdogD @ 165
She was third.
yellowdogD @ 165
Are you Jim?
redx @ 159
We wish.
RonD, what a horrible story.
That works well when you’re just a learning driver. *grins* I had a full time job by the time i bought my first used car. I had to have my own plates and tags for that. Now that i’ve moved out, it’s pretty much an imperative every year around my birthday to renew that. So making sure i have th extra 100$ to pay insurance every month on top of my other living expenses is really, really nasty. That would be FOOD money for me. 1200 a year on insurance when you barely make 13K in that time? Not fun.
Twain @ 166
Snort, burn, gulp. . .
raven @ 163
Didn’t someone famous say that facts are pesky things.?
yellowdogD @ 165
she’d be one of the best people in the world if she spoke out anyway. It’s time to call BS on Bush.
SnarKassandra @ 168
No, I’m another yellow dog Democrat.
Alias I know lots of families where they all share a car. Only two of my friends have their own.
I see your point Ecahn (and yours too, Raven) BUT the thing that supposedly is causing us more damage to our image than even Abu Ghraib is the killings that recently took place by Blackwater…and the added bonus that they are not accountable.
katymine @ 158
jealous
AnnieW @ 177
No argument there but the implication is that there are more Blackwater type security people than military. Now, if you look at how many military people are actually pounding ground the numbers might match up better.
Jane, come to Texas. A whole bunch of firepups are going camping this weekend. I may be there or I may not. Probably just Sunday.
The New Yorker magazine cover of Dick Cheney jack-o-lantern seen reproduced as graffiti in Oakland
SnarKassandra @ 164
His Producers/MSNBC management pretty much force him to do coverage of the fluff issues. I’m pretty sure if it were up to him, the name Britney Spears would not cross his lips.
AnnieW @ 177
Remember that it was 4 Blackwater employees who got burned & hung on the bridge that launched the whole Falluja massacre by U.S. forces. Don’t know why revenge was an appropriate job for the U.S. military.
Jane Hamsher @ 178
then maybe I shouldn’t tell you that RBG and I might met up in Seattle the next weekend
SnarKassandra @ 176
It starts out that way cassie, but eventually you end up needing several sometimes. In my case? My job hours were entirely different from my father’s. So we had to have our own vehicles at some point. We did pretty good for a year sharing a car. It was more common when i was little, to be fair.
I was just pointing out that having insurance absolutely required to get renewed license plate tags for cars is a nasty trick. And very Big Brotherish. Much less the ‘you MUST have insurance’ laws in Michigan. It’s no fault yes, but it’s still another huge sum of money to be forked up to a company that may not even cover your claim if and WHEN you get into a car accident as it is.
Has Tweety seen the light? “Hillary, listen up…!” 8-)
I think Tweety was prob. right, gotta check the transcript though. Go KO.
Dick Cheney controls Tim Russert.
Notice how robber barons of the Gilded Age are now called philanthropists?
Are folks here looking forward to the debate tonight?
I would if KO was asking the questions, instead we’ll get asinine questions form Williams and Russert.
punaise @ 181
That is so cool.
Punaise I like it too. Who painted it?
SnarKassandra @ 176
my dad gave me a bicycle when i graduated from college (i had been borrowing his old one). said cars were sink holes for money.
they are also bad for the environment.
got my first car (one that was really mine and not someone else’s who was letting me use it) when i was 25… got it new and kept it for 17 years. loved that car *g*
Obama’s First!
Is it just the two of them debating?
Obama serving waffles from jump street.
Here we go - the MSM wants a fight so badly.
Good God - Williams started with a long winded question.
SnarKassandra @ 195
That’s up to Dick Cheney.
New thread
SnarKassandra @ 192
I don’t know - just noticed it today while walking by.
Edwards jumpin ugly.
raven @ 196
I(hippity)HOP
Loo Hoo. @ 170
Yes. I knew this guy’s kids-went to school with them. Which is how I knew the story before he got arrested.
I also have a problem with the “jobs Americans won’t do” meme. When I was in high school, everyone I knew-and I attended the second-largest HS in the continental US at the time-would go out occasionally to work these “jobs that Americans won’t do”. Money to go to the concert this weekend? Spend a day picking oranges! What? A keg for the party Saturday, or more money for a date or a prom? Go pick strawberries for a day or two!
Everyone did stuff like that, just a few years ago. Would I do it now for the same money I did then? No.
Jane Hamsher @ 178
[Preview is my friend, my friend, my friend!]
Me too….stranded in NW Indiana…whiiine
everyone is racist and theres nothing to change that, hate and anger exist in all humans and until we live life in mindfulness and peace nothing is ever going to change. the holy spirit is in us not the sky.
Spending the last two days in the desolation between Laredo and Freer, TX, known as “the valley” to truck drivers. This cactus and mesquite covered parched terrain is unlike any “valley” in my mind. It is also crawling with immigrtion officials, occasionaly nabbing wore-out and dehydrated people desperately seeking a better life.
Got me to thinking.
How many people born here want to be American enough to go through the kind of shit they have?
There should be a better way.
EPU, but: Dobbs may not be a bigot, but he’s an enabler of bigots.
He has helped turn ‘immigrant’ into a dirty word in political discourse, and as someone with a green card, white skin and English as my native language, I find that really, really offensive.
Lou Dobbs is the reason why people around me now assume that ‘immigrant’ means ‘illegal’ means ‘criminal’. He is a stalking horse for nativist fucks.
Spitzer’s proposal was correct. He got bullied out of it by a blowhard. He should have had the balls to stand up to Dobbs and the pasty ladder-pulling mofos in Albany, the most virulent of whom have surnames that you’ll find scrawled in the record books at Ellis Island.
Dobbs actually shows outrage in the mainstream and I think this is a good thing. I wish we heard more outrage about the Bush administration and Dobbs actually cuts loose. He actally has some solid points about the enforcement of federal and state regulations. There are Qualified “others” concerned about voter fraud via licensing too (I will get names)
There is plenty of “long winded dissembling” on the right left and center.
Trex. sorry about your back troubles. Mend soon.
TexBetsy, are you there? I’d love to meet you Nov 3; where are the Firepups meeting?
Also, take care of your back, and wish Cassie happy birthday for me.
Marilyn in San Antonio
Lou Dobbs, Harvard class of ‘67. Amazing the way our elite universities have produced so many of the people doing such damage to our country.