I believe that it was Malcolm X who said (and I’m paraphrasing here) that when you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the dog that squeals is the dog you hit. Well, Glenn Greenwald seems to have nailed a particularly noisy dog in the office of General Petraeus.
Perhaps Editor and Publisher can get you up to speed faster than I can:
The long and short of the Greenwald postings: For months the popular blogger — a former attorney and author of the recent bestseller “A Tragic Legacy” — has criticized the growing “politicization” of the military attached to Iraq, starting earlier this year and peaking around the appearance of Gen. David Petraeus before Congress (and the media) in September. This was even before William Safire declared, this past weekend, that the general ought to be considered as a running mate for a Republican candidate for president next year.
Oh, dear god, no.
Several months ago, Greenwald had received, and printed, emails from Boylan, a public affairs officer and chief spokesman for Gen. Petraeus, denying this trend and/or defending the general. So when he received an angry email from Boylan on Sunday, he posted much of it on his blog (and linked to the entire message), while asserting that the views and language in it proved his point about “politicization.”
Then it got really interesting. Boylan in another note to Greenwald seemed to deny that he wrote the email, while denouncing Greenwald for publishing it. But he did not state this clearly and refused to respond to Greenwald’s subsequent request for clarity. Meanwhile, various purported computer experts compared past and present emails from Boylan to Greenwald and suggested (to the latter) that they did seem to come from the same military email address overseas.
You owe it to yourself to go to Glenn’s place and read Boylan’s entire email. The spittle-flecked, hot-faced tone of self-righteous arrogance marks him out as a prime candidate to guest-post at RedState.org, and in spite of his rather heated denials of Glennzilla’s charges, Col. Boylan is clearly a political operative, and a right nasty one at that.
Here’s a sample paragraph:
I do enjoy reading your diatribes as they provide comic relief here in Iraq. The amount of pure fiction is incredible. Since a great deal of this post is just opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinions, I will not address those even though they are shall we say — based on few if any facts. That does surprise me with your training as a lawyer, but we will leave those jokes to another day. . . .
You are either too lazy to do the research on the topics to gain the facts, or you are providing purposeful misinformation — much like a propagandist. . . .
Delightful. Sanctimonious prick.
Things get much weirder, though.
E&P contacted Boylan for a clarification about the email. Late Monday night he (or someone claiming to be him) replied: “I am denying writing and sending it. I know from past experience with Mr. Greenwald that any email exchange with him would be posted to his site as well as there is no need to discuss anything with him. I would only contact him in response to anything he would directly send to me as he did in this case. I have not contacted Mr. Greenwald since this summer” — until Greenwald asked him to confirm the Sunday email, when “I told him it was not mine and I did not send it.”
He did not express any concern in his note, however, about someone hacking into his military email account.
And that seems like it would be a matter of gravest importance, some random hacker sending emails in the name of one of the most powerful US military officers in Iraq. Unless of course, Col. Boylan is suffering from the same rare form of epilepsy that caused Kurt Eichenwald to make several seriously dodgy ethical moves in his investigation of the Justin Berry child pornography case and then claim not to remember them later.
Tristero rips a page from Mark Twain in search of an explanation:
With great care, I sifted through all the evidence about who wrote the “Colonel Steven Boylan” emails to Glenn Greenwald. After much parsing of internet arcana, I’ve concluded that beyond a doubt these e-missives were not written by Colonel Boylan but rather by someone else with the same name.
Therefore Colonel Steven Boylan should not be held responsible for what Colonel Steven Boylan writes and fobs off as his, ie, Colonel Boylan’s. It is not his, i.e., Colonel Boylan’s, fault that his email account is identically similar to Colonel Boylan’s despite the fact that a fool could easily discern the difference.
Besides, even if we (mistakenly) assume that Colonel Boylan is, in fact, Colonel Boylan – which he is not – the notion of holding a military officer accountable for the words s/he writes during wartime is simply an outrageous idea on Glenn Greenwald’s part. The next thing you know he’ll insist that officers be held responsible for their actions.
And lord knows, we can’t have that.
Digby highlights the larger, meta-point in all this, which is that perhaps this is the reason why we can’t get honest reporting out of Iraq on to the main stage of American media coverage of the war:
I’m laughing, but only because it’s easier than crying. One of the things that has obviously worked very well on the press in recent years has been sheer, thuggish intimidation. When they aren’t in actual agreement, they are clearly frightened.
Greenwald discusses this in today’s update on the public affairs officer (and future Michele Malkin contributor) Colonel Stephen Boylan:
The ultimate significance of this matter, which goes far beyond the specific question of what Col. Boylan did or did not do in this case (though that is important in its own right), is articulated perfectly by Zack in this comment. The type of hostility, pseudo-intimidation, and stonewalling expressed by Col. Boylan here (in the emails of undisputed authenticity) is the type to which reporters are frequently subjected when they step out of line, particularly with war reporting. That is one reason why so few of them ever do.
The Good Colonel’s attempts to silence and intimidate opposing points of view doesn’t just stop with liberal bloggers, however. Boylan has been quite prolific in his correspondence:
That sparked an email from Boylan in Baghdad the next day. “I found your latest column to be less than fair and as many editorials, lacking context,” he wrote. “I find it insulting that you would even consider saying that General Petraeus lied to the gathering during the AP hosted event Monday. Simply put, you are in error and as such you even pointed it out in your own column….
”Because you don’t agree with his words, detainee vice [sic] civilians, you are saying that he has lied. I am not sure how you come to that conclusion that he has lied? Would you be willing to explain that? I assume you could disagree on what is a small number or it is that you don’t like his choice of words by using detainee.
”I am pleased that you can offer such a misinformed opinion based on one-hour event.”
The Colonel really, really needs to look into a future as a Righty blogger. He’s got all the chops, the assumed tone of offended dignity, the ad hominem attacks, the appropriate number of malapropisms, and only the sketchiest grasp of the whole concept of subject/verb agreement. He’d be absolutely perfect over at Blackfive or Powerline.
In the meantime, I can’t tell you how glad I am that my tax dollars are paying some arrogant blowhard in Iraq to send nasty, bullying letters to people and organizations he disagrees with. Obviously there could be no possible better use of his time. Especially since the surge is working so well and Iraq is now a vacation paradise strewn with ponies, rainbows, and man-sized boxes of candy.
Keep throwing those rocks, Glenzilla. We are in (as the military says) a “target-rich environment”. Obviously you’re doing something right, since every time you trot out a new post, the Wingnut Welfare machine goes into gear-chewing overdrive trying to shoot it down. The dogs that squeal are the dogs you’ve hit.
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TRex!!! Hope your back is getting better.
zed.
TRex!!!!!
Jane!!!
Hello??
Hi TRex!
I can’t possibly be first after reading all this…
gah.
TRex!
…and I am not.
huge earthquake right now in NorCal
were shaking right now
Oh no. Mathews and Fineman. Teh stupid.
coulda had zed, but too interesting a read!
man sized boxes of candy? chocolate? send me one!
sigh
I’ve been watching this with amusement and some horror. It’s not just that Boylan’s a prick, but a really stupid one. What happened to devious and clever?
I miss the good old days.
Just had a really long quake. shook the house from side to side.
After reading a comment on Glenn’s blog, I sent an email to the military crime tipline pointing out that the only two possibilities are either conduct unbecoming an officer or forgery. Either option is a crime, and as a taxpayer I demanded an investigation.
Call me partisan, but I am inclined to believe Glenn.
OT
Looong earthquake just rattled San Francisco, 20 seconds easy. Anyone else feel it
long but gentle quake.
Hmmm, CA’s “shake and bake” season, I suppose…!
that’s in San Jose
newtonusr @ 10
Where in NorCal are you? Only be as specific as you are comfortable with…
newtonusr @ 10
Here’s what the USGS says…
Seamus D @ 17
Felt it in Stockton. Sharp in the beginning and then rolling, rolling . . anyone know where the epicenter was?
I f*cking despise Timmeh’s UFO question to Dennis!!!
TexBetsy @ 16
That, plus sane and sentient. Or is it the other way around?
Damn, Trex, gotta be careful about the effects of your posts triggering quakes and stuff :-)
TexBetsy @ 16
Gosh, I wonder why?!
–fellow “partisan”
peanutbutter @ 26
Just another way liberals are hurting America.
Evening all. See you found another fitting target. I’ve been following this one from the outset and it just gets weirder.
Felt no shock in Folsom (Sacramento)
newtonusr @ 10
how big? stuff falling off the shelves big?
shit when the loma prieta hit, i was home for some kind of repair person… and i went diving for an inside door frame.
you ok?
TexBetsy @ 16
I think that is called rational in this case.
Did someone mention earlier today that Valerie Wilson is gong to be on TDS tonight?
selise @ 31
Now saying 5.6. Very preliminary…
selise @ 31
25 seconds, still in aftershock, stuff off one shelf, ok.
Happens all the time.
newtonusr @ 10
Oh, dear.
TexBetsy @ 16
I sincerely hope so, the alternative is not a pleasant thought…
checked in with my parents in SW Silicon Valley – closer to the epicenter: no damage.
Hate those earthquakes. Both of my girls live in Norcal. Berkeley and Mill Valley. I worry more about Berkeley due to sloppy soil near the bay.
newtonusr @ 35
And people think I’m strange for choosing to live with lions and bears wandering into town.
newtonusr @ 10
We got quite a long scary shaking here on the Monterey peninsula minutes ago – am heading out to check outside – sounded like some of my flower pots were bounced around.
marymccurnin @ 39
not to worry on this one, anyway. just another shake at the office.
marymccurnin @ 39
It was an odd quake – it shook and rolled very slowly and seemed to go on a looooooong time.
punaise @ 38
Apparently this was 9 mi NE of San Jose.
The toobz are a wonderful thing.
punaise @ 42
Thanks.
peanutbutter @ 26
Sorry, I didn’t mean to stomp my foot quite that hard.
You guys ok?
Please be careful out there.
selise @ 31
WTF
OK, this is somewhat off topic, and I don’t mean to brag, but DiFi sent me an e-mail, all personal and stuff…
Jeebus, they’ll just slap a bird on any old whackjob, won’t they?
preliminary 5.6 calaveras county
TRex @ 46
poor TRex, your thread got temporarily hijacked by mother nature.
Felt it but it wasn’t bad here in San Francisco. I’m on pretty solid rock though ;-). Epicenter is near San Jose.
Shrub’s made of the armed forces the same thing he’s made of every other part of the government he controls: A lying, hypocritical, incompetent disgrace.
It’s a feature, not a bug.
Demi, Loo Hoo, OC, are you all OK?
glad everyone is OK… a little too much excitement around CA this last week or so…
Mutant Poodle @ 48
I got one, too. Didn’t spit on my screen but felt like it.
VPW on east coast Daily Show right now.
Valerie’s up on TDS.
Plame coming up on TDS.
newtonusr @ 35
that’s what i thought after living through a couple dozen. then loma preita (sp?) hit and after that they freak me out.
scout211 @ 23
Per the USGS:
“Rudy Guiliani – I mean come on the guy is the most un-qualified guy to run for President of the United States since George Bush”.
Bah hah ha.
RonD – LooHoo and I are down south… didn’t feel nuttin’ ’round here.
No spoilers, please re TDS.
Thanks from the left coast.
5.9 quake sounds serious. edit 5.6. sorry typo
Nothing felt here.
Twain @ 56
I replied….
Glenn has a way with words. From the opening to the last link in the post above:
CTuttle @ 24
during one of the Dems debates the only below the belt shot taken by Anderson cooper was directed at Kucinich. Kucinich is the best of the lot, why the so called “liberal” press has it out for him I’m not sure.
Mutant Poodle @ 34
ok, then… good news.
newtonusr @ 65
She’s as beautiful as always. That isn’t a spoiler.
Glenn also highlighted comment in his post, the one that inspired me to send the email. You really should read it as it drives the point home well.
It also serves as a useful template if you want to email the proper authorities yourself.
Check it out
wow – 22 sec long (counted by “one thousand one, one thousand two {onset sounded like thunder, hence the count].
5.6 per kcbs – does magnitude reflect duration?
This was the longest quake (duration) I’ve ever experienced [including Sylmar and Northridge quakes at closer proximity…houses on my street in Santa Monica were wrecked from the latter, closer and (per prelim estimate) smaller than tonight’s.]
Valley Girl @ 65
Fortunately, in earthquake territory, most building codes make a 5.9 fairly non-destructive, which is not the same as being non-scary.
Peterr @ 68
1600 Penn ave.
oh, the BLOGosphere. never mind.
Peterr @ 68
I wouldn’t. I don’t even want to contemplate the existence of such a place.
redx @ 62
Best one liner by Biden in debate
kirk murphy @ 73
Nope, just intensity.
eCAHNomics @ 33
I know she’ll be on Charlie Rose here which starts in about 10 minutes.
Also appearing is Mohamed El Baradei, so I’m guessing that Iran will be a hot topic for both of them.
kirk murphy @ 73
22 seconds IS long for an earthquake… usually 8/9 seconds seems like a long time when things are shakin’…
I don’t think magnitude reflects duration… don’t know for sure.
redx @ 78
he said that every sentence from Rudy had a noun a verb and 911.
Mutant Poodle @ 44
hayward fault? or possibly calevaras (sp?)
Plowed up a snake, didn’t he? It is never a good idea to argue with someone who knows what they are talking about, and I never heard of anyone arguing that they never argued.
I just hope the same guy who is “not Boylan” doesn’t send emails to all of our troops telling them to invade Iran.
And for the record, TRex, Dubya says Malcolm the 10th never talked about squealing dogs.
Mutant Poodle @ 48
Hate to break it to ya, but DiFi’s playing it loose & easy: I got the same letter!!
And my original letter included quotations of the First Amendment to the Constitution. *sigh*.
Novakula…its Halloween. Halloween!
DrDick @ 78
Here’s more info on the richter scale…
peanutbutter @ 84
But I bet yours did not say “Dear Mr. Poodle”
redx @ 85
ssssh, don’t spoil it for the West Coasters! ;-)
Mutant Poodle @ 74
Northridge quake was 6.7. mother’s house 3 mi. from epicenter. So, 5.6 (I edited) is an order of magnitude less, but still…
OldCoastie @ 80
The first earthquake I was in I didn’t even realize what it was. I was sitting in a rolling desk chair doing paperwork, and my chair moved about 2 feet away from the desk. I looked up and saw everyone running about. It still took a few minutes for me to realize what had happened. I was in Redding and the epicenter was near the coast, so it was relatively weak in my area.
peanutbutter @ 84
I feel so…so…used.
Valley Girl @ 65
Not at all. Anything below a 6.0 is pretty much a sleeper — between 6 and 7 much more damage, 7-7.5 is bad and 7.5 plus HOLEY MOLEY. The scale is exponential, not linear so 6.5 is much worse to 6.0 than 6.0 is to 5.5.
I forking major seriously dislike earthquakes.
TexBetsy @ 87
Oh, sadly, mine didn’t either. I chose to write non-pseudonymously.
And yes, I just made that word up.
Hi Suzanne!
J @ 69
They desperately need to debase him, similarly, the repugs have to contain Ron Paul!
Suzanne @ 93
I’m that way about fires, specially after this last week.
transitioning to pumpkin-carving mode.
It’s funny what trips different people’s eek factor. Earthquakes don’t faze me one bit. They’re over instantly. But hurricanes and tornados, those infinitely scare me. And yet those in hurricane country are as blase about those as I am about quakes. It’s all relative I suppose.
USGS shows six little aftershocks (1.3-1.6).
Suzanne @ 93
were you there in ‘89?
Suzanne, are you in the earthquake-affected area?
Suzanne @ 93
Hence, the late entrance, Ma Cheri? *g*
Mutant Poodle @ 94
That’s alright, the president has made that a very popular thing. What I wouldn’t give for a president that can speak his native language fluently.
newtonusr, you okay?
Suzanne @ 93
I was in Yosemite national park for both the big San Fran quake during the World Series AND during the Northridge quake. (No, I’m not there now.) First time, camping, we heard about the quake because the guy in the RV next to our campsite was watching the world series. About 90 seconds later, it came through the park, completely silent, but you could see the ground undulate.
Frickin’ weird.
Ugh. I am so unsettled by the debates.
What a despicable little apparatchnik Russert is. It seemed like Mary Matalin wrote his questions. Probably some of Williams too. “shirly maclaine says you saw a UFO (to kucinich).” I am glad Hillary smacked Russert with republican framing. I was horrified when Obama played into Republican hands with his subsequent answer. I was taken aback when Dodd raised his hand and attacked Hillary on the Spitzer id issue. I didn’t like him saying a license is a “privelege”. And Obama saying au contraire, “we can train them.”
Obama overall looked like a HoJoe acolyte divider.
I really expect better of Dodd
and Edwards.
And I missed the first half. Did they ask about the(not Holts) FISA bill in committee?
Suzanne @ 93
All the china and world’s cutest dog ok?
looks like Hillary is going to get painted as a flip-floppin’ waffler…
Loo Hoo. @ 105
Sure. One stack of books and a thinky off a shelf. Cool.
peanutbutter @ 99
like i said up thread… i used to think they were kinda fun. ’till i was in one that killed a bunch of people and did major damage. now i hate ‘em.
punaise @ 98
Is that a euphemism for “sending an email to Colonel Slackjaw?”
Valerie got bumped from Charlie Rose because his interview with ElBaradei is long. She’ll be on tomorrow night.
Thought Stewart’s interview of her was lame.
selise @ 112
Ahhh, I see. I don’t think they’re fun either. But they don’t scare me.
Fire, though. :-P
PB, I can tell you, as one who has lived in hurricane country my entire life, people who are blase’ about hurricanes haven’t lived here very long.
everyone and thing ok here – am on bedrock – was working during loma preita (epicenter is 8 miles as the crow flies from the little cottage) but not living here then
RonD @ 54
Nothing here in SoCal. Hope everyone in NoCal is okay…
I’ve been in tornado, hurricane, flood and earthquakes. Earthquakes least trip me out.
Suzanne, you OK?
selise @ 101
selise- were you there in ‘89? I was not, but many friends were.
Also, suz was not in BC, but working in the Bay Area. Has related some stories in comments before. Weird quake- extent of damage had nothing to do with closeness to epicenter. Not linear from epicenter.
RonD @ 115
That’s what I have heard :-P And I’m here going — your frickin’ home goes flying off to Oz and that doesn’t scare you?
give me a man with a gun anytime – i can’t stand quakes
i admit it – i have control issues
mui @ 107
I did not like that question to Dennis… Not one question was asked about FISA, Telcom Immunity, nor Torture… I was disappointed…!
Valley Girl @ 119
yes.
RonD @ 54
*grin*
Just remember, San Fran will never feel an LA quake and vice versa.
(or if we DO, then change the maps cause CA fell off into the ocean…)
eCAHNomics @ 113
Haven’t seen it yet, but I’ve noticed Jon does poor interviews with the pretty ladies, e.g. Meryl Streep
peanutbutter @ 120
For me it’s the difference between going about your business and then whamo! earthquake;with a hurricane, you’ve got advance warning and can make appropriate plans. It’s still somewhat random in terms of damage, but the whole “out of the blue” thing with earthquakes freaks me out.
TRex, i’m sorry – forgive my bad manners
that is another excellent post. what’s the post count now – i’ve lost count
G’nite, all.
I hate earthquakes. I experienced one in Taiwan, and felt like I was shaking the whole day, inward tremours.
Peterr @ 128
Nite, Peterr!
Sleep well Peterr.
selise @ 124
If you care to say, where?
My friends closest to the epicenter suffered no major structural damage. But, the damage was huge further away.
sleep well, Peterr
Suzanne @ 121
Bossy, too
;>)
punaise @ 98
Are you making a Tim Russert jack-o-lantern? Please post.
madmommy @ 126
That’s exactly what freaks me out about hurricanes: bears down on you, you’ve got nowhere to go but wait, and wait, and wait, and it lasts forever. Quakes OTOH are over and done with and you go about cleaning up right off the bat.
Either way, the aftermath can be horrific, of course. Even if my house is fine, I may be without food and water for a considerable amount of time, and so on. Same as with a hurricane. But instead of 24 hours of hurricane blowing about me, I got 10 seconds max of shaking…
:-D
peanutbutter @ 123
The entire time I lived in Redding and Chico I would get phone calls from family any time there was a quake anywhere in the state. Usually I would just tell them to check a map-if the epicenter was more than 3 hours from me they didn’t need to worry.
CTuttle @ 96
The media has never been anything like fair. They are, and always have been, a corrupt institution. Look at William Randolph Hearst. Remember his comment about war? Europeans look at us and scratch their heads. There is no “left” in this country as they’d use the term. Why do tools like OxyCotin man and O’Falafel get major press, not to mention idiots like NPod, and yet all we hear is scorn from the traditional media for people like Noam Chomsky. Why do you think that is?
These debates are never going to be any good until they accept my idea: one-on-one, GOP vs. Dem, same exact questions of every debate, put all the tapes in storage, then show them eight nights in a row at the same time. That way no one can study the questions and others’ answers.
Draw lots to see who debates whom, but wouldn’t you pay money to see McCain versus Dodd? Or Kucinich versus Tancredo?
Hey, Suze, I think this post is somewhere in the 540’s. Glad everyone seems to have come through the quake unharmed.
Me, I’ve never experienced an earthquake so I find them really scary. Tornadoes are scary, but there’s generally some warning. Hurricanes don’t tend to make it this far inland without degrading to Really Big Storms, and frankly, we could use some of those around here, what with the drought and all.
Well we know Hilary like Obama holds out to the last minute before she votes the right way. And when she votes the horrible way (Kyl/Lieb), its really horrible. However, I thought she was clear on the Spitzer issue and I thought Russert, Dodd and others did their best to jump on her in a way that wasn’t really likeable.
On a lighter note, Howie Klein give a shout out to another GOP State Rep…Gay hooker, woman’s frilly undies..far right wacko.
DWT
DrDick @ 78
wow – thanks, Dr Dick.
is there such a thing as a scale measuring the product of magnitude vs duration?
i’m wondering if the seismic energy applied to structures/bldg leading to flexion/deformation/cracking (in all major systems, not only structual) is adequately measured by intensity alone, or if a measure of te product (duration vs intensity) would yield an additional measure of (potentially) deformational stressors.
[ps - KCBS reporter Betsy (interviewed from home) describes teling family to run out of home and opening door and lab ran out (big laugh from Betsy….why?) - dog not to be seen for minutes, finally came home.
Uhhh….
Pups, Betsy is a don’t-be.
In quakes in bldgs over two stories high (or any bldgs with big glass windows/walls) stay inside until shaking stops.
If you have pets - opening the door during quakes means you will lose tehm - pehaps forever.
Jeebus kcbs - do better - these basic quake safety facts aren’t news.]
pps – kcbs rots my brain – now boston medical group with patent meds for the impatiently flaccid,
I thought Bostonians were too proper for such matters…
I wonder if Google’s corporate headquarters are in the vicinity of the epicenter, ’cause I’ve been trying for the last 15 minutes to get to their site and their maps to no avail.
PB, in 2004 I was evacuated four times in six weeks. Sat in a hotel, trying to get real comfortable with the certainty that I would soon be homeless and destitute, and watched Charlie, a cat4 storm tracking directly over my house…and then turn away at the last second, and just destroy Punta Gorda south of me. It’s a strange feeling-you’re grateful for being spared, yet feel guilty for feeling gratitude when you see what it did to those people where it hit directly…I suspect the feeling is the same, no matter what the disaster is.
peanutbutter @ 136
Everybody’s got their quirks, huh? Personally I never stay for hurricanes, in fact I usually leave a day before they call for evac. The last place I want to be is stuck in contraflow with 2 kids and a hyper dog for hours on end.
Suzanne @ 121
Don’t be hard on yourself. Anyone who lives or has lived in CA during an earthquake does not like them one bit.
As my mother described it to me (NR quake) “I don’t normally swear, but I heard this low rumbling and then every thing started to shake, and pulled the covers over my head and said ‘oh my god’”. ;)
OBTW, most excellent post TRex! *g*
peanutbutter @ 123
Oh, PB. We’ll feel it if the Oroville dam breaks and comes on down and wipes out the San Onofre nuclear power plant. We are way connected.
madmommy @ 137
And you have to teach out of staters what “three hours away” means…:-)
(I still remember the first time I planned a road trip back east. My mom was like: We’ll go thru NJ, into PA, and come out in upstate NY… I was like: WOW, that’ll take all day! And she’s laughing her head off. No, just three hours. THREE HOURS?? Three hours from NJ to Cornell. Jeeze. It’s tiny back there, guys.
Here in Oakland we felt it as a two-part roller, with a bump in the second part. No obvious damage, just some jostling of Things. The seismograph traces do show it as strangely long. Not as long as the 10/15/2006 Kohala quakes, mind, but still unusually long for here.
TeddySanFran @ 139
Heh, Kucinich v. Tancredo would be priceless… I don’t think there is any two more diametrically opposed individuals…! ;-)
Steve-AR @ 142
raise your hand if you are surprised
Suzanne @ 121
here ya go
TexBetsy @ 153
I’ll bet that’s the least exercise I get all day.
http://visz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/
Here’s a link that someone here gave out a couple of weeks ago.
Trex – I am sorry – I am so freaking rude to just blab here about the quake and ignore your post.
I apologize.
Peterr @ 128
Good evening, Peterr. I did catch your comment about appreciating my “bad preaching” note a couple of threads ago. Obama just sends me to the snooze mode.
TexBetsy @ 153
It’s already slotted in for tonight’s Late Late Nite.
G*d/dess are there still people out there that listen to Safire?
kirk murphy @ 157
That’s okay.
You can make it up to me in sexual favors.
Loo Hoo. @ 149
Speaking of which!! I drove past the Onofre power plant yesterday. The ground all the way to the inland side of the 5 freeway is burned!!!!!
I’m hoping to hell that was a backfire they sent back UP against the actual fire, and not the fire being miraculously stopped a few hundred FEET from a nuclear power plant…!!
I was so saddened by all the devastation along the freeway though. Everything burns black and there’s white ash on the ground. Looks like a moonscape.
peanutbutter @ 150
Yeah, they never did quite get it. It was 8 plus hours from my house to LA, about 2 hours to the Bay area.
so far, the dams and bridges in my little neck of the shaking appear to have not suffered any damage according to fire dispatch (love listening to them in times like these)
Valley Girl @ 132
about 3 mi north of stanford (50mi from epicenter?). i was ok, no structural damage (on bedrock and small 1 story woodframe house – probably the safest type of structure). but the shaking scared the shit out of me (and i’d been through a couple of dozen smaller ones previously).
for people who don’t know what we’re talking about, here’s some pics of the damage.
and rt. 17 to santa cruz had major changes – basically it looked like the top of the pass had been knocked off. haven’t seen any pics of that though.
ummmm….do your big feet really mean what I think they mean?
Anyone think Hillary hurt herself twice tonight? First with her explanation of ending the war/keeping troops there. Second with her hedging on the driver’s license issue.
kirk murphy @ 157
I apologize to TRex also, bec. I did the same. But quakes are riveting news for CAians.
Great post TRex. I read Glenzilla earlier (is that TSF’s phrase?) and the interaction was bizarre at that point.
And, exactly as you said. WHY is he blase about the fact that his account might have been hacked. Bizarre response.
All you Texas ‘pups who can take a joke, be sure to watch Colbert…
Spoiler redacted.
First reported details.
ok, breathing and pulse finally getting back down to almost normal
now where were we before that nasty bad earthquake dared to try to hijack trex’s thread?
TeddySanFran @ 139
Not a bad idea. Who would Joe “I think I’m at the wrong cocktail party” Biden debate? On the other hand, I think the media would have the “chosen frontronners” debating against the “serious ” GOP contenders. And watching Obama hold hands with his opponent talking bipartisanship would be too much to handle. I’d rather see each and every Dem candidate debate Giuliani.
So, another candidate in the great Ripofflican whack-a-mole game rears his pointy head to the tender mercies of the reality mallet…’Here’s to ya’, Steven, or not-Steven, if you prefer.
And if the earthquake didn’t wreck your room, let a pro take a whack at that, too.
;>)
prison escape via luggage
Teenager escapes prison in suitcase
BERLIN (Reuters) – A 19-year-old German woman has escaped from prison by hiding in a friend’s suitcase.
The fugitive hid inside the large case when her 17-year-old fellow inmate was released from the youth prison in northwest Germany on Friday, Lower Saxony ministry spokesman Dennis Weilmann said on Monday.
The girl simply walked out of the building with her friend concealed in her luggage, Weilmann said.
“Our staff are going to make sure they inspect big suitcases more carefully in the future,” Weilmann said.
Neither of the teenagers has since been caught. Both had been jailed for theft. The escaped prisoner had less than two weeks left to serve.
Suzanne @ 171
Whackjob military guy acts like an jerk. Glenzilla hands him his ass on a platter.
TRex @ 161
selise- thanks for info. As I said above, damage (and thereby extent of shaking) didn’t necessarily have anything to do with closeness to epicenter.
madmommy @ 175
nice summary!
kirk murphy @ 166
Come a little closer and I’ll show you.
TRex @ 179
I am so glad Cassie went to bed!
madmommy @ 175
Colonel Slackjaw gives a whole new meaning to “full bird.” As in cuckoo.
TRex @ 179
Is it getting hot in here or is it just me?
Valley Girl @ 177
i think the big difference was bedrock vs. other things… land fill being the worst (see marina district).
Loo Hoo. @ 149
By the way, any chance you can come up to Costa Mesa this Saturday? We’re having an fdl get together at Wahoo’s Fish Taco, 1862 Placentia Ave., Costa Mesa at noonish.
WTF? Obama won and Dodd was dead last?
TexBetsy @ 178
Evening Betsy! Cassie is getting excited about her big day. There was talk of cake for dinner, an IPod and some sort of techie thing I did not get. Plus a family dinner and time with friends.
selise @ 183
Ah, yes, the Marina district. Possibly the only reason people know the term, “liquefaction”.
selise @ 183
Also a rolling quake does less damage than a shaking, rattling kind.
Kos thread with reports – mentions that “…I think must be on the Calavaras and/or Hayward fault(s). Wikipedia says there has not been a major quake on the Calavaras in recorded history.” Well, 30 seconds of ground motion -is- pretty weird for here.
Hmmm.
peanutbutter @ 150
Yep. From where I am in west-central Montana, it is about 3 hours north to Canada, 2 hours south to Idaho, and most of the goddamn day east to North Dakota. West to Idaho is only about an hour. Fourth largest state with the 3rd lowest population density.
from San Jose/Santa Clara. It rattled us pretty good. No cracks, nothing fell off/fell over, didn’t even get my wife off the couch from her TV show. For me, though, it was the biggest I felt since Loma Prieta.
Sorry to go on about the quake, TR — it’s probably just that I’m 2 blocks away from the Hayward fault here.
madmommy @ 186
oh good grief! she wants about $300 in electronics. not gonna happen.
Hmmm. @ 189
perhaps making up for lost time?
Alright, Pups, did Obama win the debate?
TRex @ 159
Ooooo. I may have to stay up late for that one.
CTuttle @ 195
I don’t know WHO won the debate, but most surely Obama lost… not in a big huge obvious way, but in a “bore my socks off” way…
TRex @ 161
TRex, I didn’t realize you were a Republican!
DrDick @ 196
If I take a nice hot bath now, I’ll hit the late late just in time…be back in a bit!
madmommy @ 175
Too bad Caravaggio didn’t paint any images of that.
Travelers Ho: Inbound flights to SFO are all diverting for the time being.
TexBetsy @ 193
HA! The catalogs have begun arriving here, and the little guy is now perusing them with great interest. He finds something and says “I want DIS!” I’m trying to explain that Santa has a budget, thus far with no luck.
CTuttle @ 195
No way.
I scored it for Edwards, or maybe even Biden (whom I do not support, but he did do well). Granted, I am an Edwards supporter, but also, I think, reasonably objective.
so glad everyone’s ok.
sorry trex – great post and important topic…. but i’m off now, hopefully to sleep.
later ‘pups.
DrDick @ 198
It’s only Republican if you tap your toes
;>)
madmommy @ 175
Sliced, diced, and sauteed – with sauce.
Alright, gang. I’m outta here.
Catch you on the rebound.
Mommybrain @ 182
This is beginning to make me jealous. I know I have no right to be, but whatever . . .
good night, Selise. All my best.
Vote here fellow Firepups…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528788/
DrDick @ 198
Ooooo!
Oh and Biden has big hands.
CTuttle @ 210
Check the results, they have Obama leading in the first 3 questions (leadership, standing out from the pack, etc.)
OldCoastie @ 197
As has been pointed out elsewhere, Obama’s campaign has seriously self-destructed with his pandering to the fundies and gay bashers. I was never very fond of him as a candidate (too Rahm Emanuel corporatist), but that drove the stake through the heart of the thing for me.
madmommy @ 213
And Hillary with the most rehearsed questions…!
Blazes, Boylan!
Yer pants are on fire!
mui @ 212
Is that the same thing as having big feet?
Justices Stay Execution, a Signal to Lower Courts
By LINDA GREENHOUSE, NY Times
Published: October 31, 2007
WASHINGTON, Oct. 30 — Moments before a Mississippi prisoner was scheduled to die by lethal injection on Tuesday evening, the Supreme Court granted him a stay of execution and thus gave a nearly indisputable indication that a majority intends to block all executions until the court decides a lethal injection case from Kentucky next spring.
There were two dissenters, Justices Antonin Scalia and Samuel A. Alito Jr., but neither they nor the majority gave reasons for their positions. Because only five votes are required for a stay of execution, it is not clear whether all the remaining seven justices supported it.
The stay will remain in effect until the full court reviews an appeal filed Monday by lawyers for the inmate, Earl W. Berry, who is on death row for killing a woman 20 years ago.
While there is no schedule for that review, it will almost surely not take place until the court decides the Kentucky case, Baze v. Rees, which will be argued in January. The issue in that case is not the constitutionality of lethal injection as such, but rather a more procedural question: how judges should evaluate claims that the particular combination of drugs used to bring about death causes suffering that amounts to cruel and unusual punishment, in violation of the Eighth Amendment.
Even without a written opinion, the Supreme Court’s action on Tuesday night clarified a situation that had become increasingly confusing as state courts and the lower federal courts, without further guidance from the justices, wrestled with claims from a growing number of death-row inmates that their imminent executions should be delayed.
State and lower federal courts are likely to interpret the Supreme Court’s action as a signal that they should postpone executions in their jurisdictions. As a result, the justices will probably not have to consider any more last-minute applications from inmates while the de facto moratorium is in effect.
So does it bother anyone else that the colonel in TRex’s piece is essentially performing the function of a “commissar” in the Soviet Army?
AZMatt, did you just get here? I’ve been hoping someone from the greater metro Phoenix area would be around. I’m trying to determine if I’m actually losing my mind or do I still smell the smoke from the CA fires here today. It’s kinda playing havoc with my COPD. I can’t imagine how the CA people are handling it, especially if they have any breathing problems. Then with an earthquake to boot! Wow!
Dru @ 200
Dru, that’s a great idea for a masterpiece.
It’s your idea. You should take the first crack ;-)
madmommy @ 202
Hmmm. Know that feeling. These just arrived in the mail today.
madmommy @ 213
Let’s Obama f*cked up first. Edwards nailed a few, was frustratingly vague on a lot. Dodd nailed a few. So did Richardson. Hilary smacked Russert. So points for her. Dodd f*cked up last. Biden nailed a question then got happy with hemself for the rest of the debate. See I am trying to be fair?
Back to the debate, and the UFO issue, which reminded me of this…
What happend at Roswell
~~~As Many will recall that, on July 8, 1947, witnesses claimed an unidentified object, with five aliens aboard, crashed onto a sheep and cattle ranch just outside Roswell, New Mexico.
This is a well-known incident many say has long been covered up by the United States Air Force and the federal government.
However, what you may NOT know, is that in the month of March 1948, exactly nine months later, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Condoleezza Rice, and Dan Quayle were all born.
See what happens when aliens breed with sheep?
This information may clear up a lot of questions. ~~~
Ann in AZ – I have no doubt you are getting our smoke… lots and lots of it and very fine particulates… everybody around here is wheezing -asthma or no… it is all blowing to the east the last couple days…
did you have an extra pretty sunset?
solai @ 167
Yes
CTuttle @ 215
She is nothing if not well rehearsed. I am not sure I have seen a single spontaneous moment in the entire campaign.
Hmm, interesting.
And ‘March’ is the month named after the god of war.
‘March’ is also what followers do–not leaders.
I haven’r been a fan, but thought HRC kicked some serious ass tonight. The Edwards/Obama pile-up backfired, IMHO
DrDick @ 222
Cool boots, but he is thinking more along the lines of a 400$ race car bed. The little booger doesn’t even sleep in the bed he has now, he climbs in bed with us every night.
Dick Cheney was born in ‘41.
pdaly @ 228
Nice one!
TexBetsy @ 174
Love conquers all, even the idea of waiting two weeks to see one another….
madmommy @ 230
Try Craigslist for that kind of thing.
mui @ 223
Yes, and not a bad synopsis in my humble opinion, succinct seems to be the appropriate word…! ;-)
RonD @ 231
Oh well. So much for that. I didn’t do the proper research.
the msnbc poll looks seriously freeped for Obama.
RonD @ 231
Dick Cheney was not born, he crawled out from under a rock.
all right – good night, pups!
peanutbutter @ 184
I’ll be there and look forward to meeting you, PB!
TexBetsy @ 234
To quote you from an earlier post “not gonna happen”. He does like something else, a play store with about 100 pieces. Joy.
Night OC.
OldCoastie @ 239
Sleep well.
DrDick @ 238
I sit corrected. You are, of course, on the money.
Nite, OC!
OldCoastie @ 197
Gotta agree here. He was his usual boring debate self.
I thought Dodd was doing great until his “driving license is a privilege” thing. Plus, he has a really bad speech tick: he says “here” at the end of every other sentence. Is that a New England thing?
I thought Edwards schooled Hillary but good.
Arianna on the KO replay, ripping Benito Giuliani a new one. Beautiful.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
OldCoastie at #225 says:
Don’t know. Didn’t think about looking. I generally stick pretty much indoors when the air is yucky. Twenty four hour oxygen only does so much good when you’re taking in the fumes from fires. My house burned down in 2003 and I had a hard time coming in while they were rebuilding it for me. Can’t handle the smoke well anymore.
This is really weird, though. I think it’s really pretty faint. Actually made me wonder whether I was imagining things today. Then I catch a burnt smell and I’d say to myself, no, that’s the fire smell. Really weird feeling. Also kinda deja vu from when the house burnt down.
CTuttle @ 195
A resounding no on that one, cowboy.
madmommy @ 241
Great for language development and imaginary play!
This poem seems appropriate for tonight.
Riding in my House
I have been riding in my house,
a ship among trees,
barking dogs,
and people coming and going.
I swear when the night storms hit,
the house rolls from one side to another.
The pitch is so great that I run to the back porch
and lower the anchor.
The house strains when the hook hits bottom.
Windows bulge inward from the turbulence outside.
Furniture slides around the rooms
like a scene from a bad movie.
I pass through the kitchen on the way back to bed
and notice the sink is full of rocking dinner dishes.
I figure one of the benefits of the gale
is this washing action and
I can just rinse those suckers in the morning
and put them away.
When morning does come
the walls are upright,
the trees are still holding up the sky,
dogs bark at their canine phantoms,
and the dishes are neatly stacked.
Ann in AZ @ 220
The earthquake was 400 to 500 miles north of the fire zones.
mui @ 212
And hair plugs!
Suzanne @ 93
Moi aussi. Why do I live in California?
burnspbesq @ 254
How you doing Burns?
Tom Tomorrow had some good advice for future dealings with wingnuts who have a history of claiming embarrassing emails from them are fakes:
OldCoastie @ 237
Weird. He’s the least convincing of the candidates. And I really hate the way he jumped on Hillary on the social security issue. He jumped on her in the most dishonest way when she asked Timmy to stop framing questions in the republican way, IMO he sorta sucked up to Timmy. It was grotesque. And I am not even for Hillary. It’s just tag teaming with a repuke is the worst sin of all.
pdaly @ 221
Thanks, butt I’ll take a pass.
TeddySanFran @ 246
Yes, Yes, and Yes, I do like Edwards the most of the front tier folks, yet, I will never forgive Timmeh for that craven question to Dennis!
Okay everyone. Further research shows that the joke about sheep breeding with aliens has been around a long time, and that the details as to birthdays has been discredited.
Apologies. I usually do at least a minimal amount of research before I post links.
Apparently I got carried away with the idea of “sheep breeding with aliens”. Just seemed to explain so much that I didn’t look more closely as to the details.
TexBetsy @ 250
Which is why I ordered it after he went to bed. There’s already several things in the attic awaiting the fat man in the red suit’s arrival.
burnspbesq @ 254
I blame Osama.
Ok, I’ll fire up the jukebox.
chipmunk pumpkin
Loo Hoo. @ 249
Here, we’re known as Paniolo! ;-)
Late Monday night he (or someone claiming to be him) replied: “I am denying writing and sending it.
————
Unfair attack on the good Colonel’s veracity! His aide prolly pushed the send button.
marymccurnin @ 251
I really love that. Thanks
VG, it’s not factually accurate, but it is funny as hell.
TeddySanFran @ 246
It must be a CT tick, since I am from CT and barely noticed. He’s still my first, but diction wise, I wonder how the rest of the country perceives him. The license “privelege” was awful.
And then Obama disagreed and said, “but we can train them”, sounding a little to like he’s used to talking down to the “help.”
RonD @ 263
Makes me feel teh youngesh.
Valley Girl @ 224
Dick Cheney DOB: 1/30/41
Don Rumsfeld DOB: 7/9/32
Bill O’Reilly DOB: 9/10/49
Rush: 1/12/51
Condi: 11/14/54
Quayle: 2/4/47
Don’t ask me why I wiki’d all those. I don’t know.
Twain @ 267
Thank you.
RonD @ 268
I hope this lapse on my part does not put a permanent stain on my credibility at FDL. ;)
that is gorgeous, mary mcc
thank you for sharing your poetry – tis always a pleasure to read
Valley Girl @ 224
Infected gene pool.
MaryMaryPoemFairy, thank you so much. I love your poems.
Mommybrain @ 276
Thanks everyone. Make me happy.
Oh and my only complaint with Edwards is that he needs to drop the platitudes and vagueness and have more of those punchy moments we know he’s capabale of.
Valley Girl, remember how the Xfiles used to blame everything on FEMA hiding evidence of life on other planets?
TeddySanFran @ 271
Teddy, I take that as a compliment to my reputation for veracity at FDL. Which, btw, I hope I have not ruined entirely. ;)
RonD @ 263
Husband requests anything from Darkside of the Moon- pretty please?
Valley Girl @ 273
Actually in Cheney’s case, I think is more likely they crossbred with one of those large and nasty Sonoran Desert scorpions.
Valley Girl @ 260
You are forgiven, but will I ever get that four minutes of wiki time back? No. *g*
rep is safe, vg – i thought it was a joke when i read it and laughed
Mommybrain @ 276
Me too, that one is super!
Busy day tomorrow; fall festival at the kiddos school, then tie them to a chair and hope to get at least something nutritious into them before the candy free for all begins. Good times.
Goodnight all!
Update on WA Gooper…
Police report sheds new light on Curtis encounter
Close-Up toothpaste no doubt…
Suzanne @ 283
suz- this is why I could never have done your cop job. I am too credulous.
Have fun tomorrow mom.
TeddySanFran @ 226
I thought she answered the drivers license question very well. We need to know who is here, and the immigrants should pay their share of highway maintenance and be responsible if they cause an accident.
The question of Iraq she answered in terms of protecting the embassy, training the Iraqis, and fighting al Queda. I don’t know of a more logical response. What would it be?
sleep well madmom
Night MM. Have fun tomorrow.
TeddySanFran @ 282
It would’ve made sense. They’re always experimenting on poor Dolly the clone.
Valley Girl @ 260
You’re forgiven VG, but the sheep said: “Baa, humbug.”
Dark Side of the Moon? a two-fer. My regards to Mr. Christine E.
(waving to the leaving sleepy pups)
OK, here’s my quarter in the Juke Box… A classic C&K tune… Some serious home-grown… *g*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imrXZrBwPRU
Valley Girl @ 279
Not in my estimation, Dearie! ;-)
Loo Hoo- I did not watch the whole debate (no TV), but finally got it on the toobz.
So, I don’t know about the Iraq question.
But, I have to agree that I really liked Hill’s answer about the drivers license question. Dodd just seemed totally out of touch on this issue.
burnspbesq @ 254
Why do people think Californians are blase about earthquakes? I was born in Berkeley and have lived in California almost all my life. I hate hate hate earthquakes, and I’ve lived through many. We were on the phone with our daughter in her little flat in SF when this one hit tonight. She had a mild reaction but I freaked out. Earthquakes are very scary.
Here’s the thing about the debates: 90% of the viewers are pretty much fans of one candidate. I don’t think the debates have grown audiences (but I’m willing to have someone look that up for me, hint hint VG!) so there aren’t new people tuning in. But in case there ARE new people tuning in, there’s the need to re-introduce yourself each debate, without sounding like the angry mean man for challenging Hillary too roughly.
So we, the regular viewers, expect a change in presentation, as if we are watching a series or a soap opera. We expect to see the candidates develop. The candidates, though, are viewing each debate as an opportunity to reach new people with their canned persona and speeches. So they roll out the same stuff each time. Really, was this debate very different from the first debate? I don’t think so.
Lord knows what Russert thinks he’s accomplishing. He was shameful tonite.
Wow,
Hate to say it but this guy sounds like he’s cut from the same cloth as the guy who trolled BlogForAmerica to near extinction.
Tithonia @ 298
i agree wholeheartedly – they scare the crap outta me… (shruddering) glad you and your family are ok
Ann in AZ @ 248
So sorry, Ann.
nooses in Texas
4 workers fired after hanging nooses in Houston
from HoustonChronicle
By DALE LEZON
Four contract workers were banned from FMC Technologies after they hung nooses at one of the firm’s Houston facilities, the company announced Tuesday.
The three men and one woman also were fired from their jobs with the contractors for FMC, an oil-field services equipment manufacturer, said Maryann Seaman, FMC spokeswoman.
“FMC has zero tolerance for workplace harassment,” Seaman said.
Seaman said about a month ago an employee notified company officials that he had seen a noose hanging in the FMC’s Gears Road facility.
Three workers were banned from FMC after they were discovered to have been involved in placing the noose, she said.
Last week, another noose was seen hanging in the same facility, Seaman said, and another person was banned from the firm because she was involved in placing that noose.
Seaman said the company is investigating the cases. So far, she added, the firm has has not contacted law enforcement authorities, but it will do what is ever necessary once its investigation is complete.
LooHoo, I thought Hillary bravely answered the driver’s license question…and then backed away from it, and tried to waffle. I DO think all of the other candidates subtly deferred to her, almost like a silent acknowledgement that she’s leading, and solidly.
mui @ 257
Obama was revolting tonight.
TexBetsy @ 303
I’d be interested in knowing how this became public knowledge, and made it into the paper, without Mr Law being contacted. You can be sure the company didn’t notify the paper — I wonder if one of the fired workers did?
TeddySanFran @ 306
Texas
RonD @ 294
RonD, you are wonderful — thanks so much. I’ve never seen video, only music. I’ve saved it to see the two-fer. Mr. Christine E. was AMAZED. We are now seeing “Us and Them.”
Chris
Let’s not diss Texas. Many fine ‘pups in Texas.
TeddySanFran @ 271
Maybe to see where you fit in? And to think that Condi is younger than me, explains everything.
RonD @ 309
indeed
TeddySanFran @ 306
Or perhaps the intended target of the attack? At least the company had the decency to fire the assholes. Kind of surprising for Texas, actually.
MMMMM.
Boneless Buffalo wings for dinner, and a Republican politician under Federal indictment.
What a yummy combination!
Off to the US Attorney’s website to see if they issued a press release with a copy of the indictment attached. Back in a bit.
Why thank you, Christine! You are too kind.
TexBetsy @ 311
Many fine folks of all sorts in Texas. Also a lot of flaming racists, especially in the upper echelons of the corporate world.
DrDick @ 255
I am Oh. Kay. Reading indictments of scumbag Republicans always improves my mood. Pdf copy of the Carona indictment can be found here.
BTW, I think kudos should be extended to Artur Davis and Keith Ellison for their masterful takedown of Tanner…!
RonD @ 304
Clinton’s final statement, about the three types of licenses Spitzer proposes, should have been her first. By the time she got to technicalities (about which I agree) she had already hurt herself by supporting the proposal, saying she would look into it, blaming herself and Congress and the Preznit for not passing comprehensive immigration reform.
Her answer was not straightforward. Which is the problem I have with her — you can see the wheels turning as she puzzles out how best to triangulate an answer. In this case, she got to the right answer at the end, but hurt herself badly by leaving an opening for others to criticize her apparent (and actual) waffling.
She’s running an incumbency racket, and Democrats aren’t going to be happy with that. Who wants our candidate to be pro-war in the fall? Who wants our candidate to be running against the GOP change candidate?
Not I.
RonD @ 309
Sorry. She said sheepishly and hoped that she had not alienated anyone.
TeddySanFran @ 299
I agree but this debate was somehow uglier than what I’ve seen. We never, ever get any questions on the legislation that we write congress every day about.
And people who already don’t like Hillary probably thought she sounded lame based on the tag teaming between Obama and Russert and the muddying of the license answer by Dodd. I thought that was appalling. And Dodd has good people working for him, we know. Hillary can be challenged on totally fair grounds. And they could’ve given candidates a chance to explain their positions on the FISA reform bill, and yet the questions were framed Republican, dirty even with the grilling of Kucinich about UFO sightings.
marymccurnin @ 319
Haylll no. We’re tougher than that down here.
Thank you Suzanne @ 301…. Hope you and yours are safe and well too……..
burnspbesq @ 316
That would rather brighten ones day, especially if you live in the OC. 8~)
burnspbesq @ 313
Who?
mui @ 278
I can only tell you that FEMA doesn’t know shit from shinola here in the fireworld. Nothing different from NOLA, only people more able to take care of each other. They keep having meetings about the same stuff because they keep replacing personnel.
burnspbesq @ 316
story here
Bush. Rove. Gonzales. DeLay. Cornyn. Enron. ClearCom. Discriminatory sodomy laws. Heaven forfend we should dump on Texas.
Loo Hoo. @ 325
‘Cause they don’t wanna take the heat(pun intended)!!! ;-)
boosh isn’t really a texan – he just plays one on tv
MaryM, (chuckling), when I first started commenting at FDL, I once made an insulting comment about Texas, and Snarkassandra set me straight like that. (*snaps fingers*).
However, I have sat quietly for much derision aimed at Florida.
Hmmm. @ 327
Can’t really blame Texas for Dubya. Despite his pretensions, he really is a New England preppie.
DrDick @ 331
White trash C- New England preppie
Hmmm. @ 327
It’s my least favorite state, and I will never travel there, but there are fine Americans who live there, some of them ‘pups, so I try not to paint with a broad brush.
DrDick @ 227
“Nixon’s the one…”
DrDick @ 331
But, that would imply he had some smarts…
CTuttle @ 328
Don’t forget about the “oversight.” You know, Lieberman and Collins.
Hmmm. @ 327
Barbara Jordan. Ann Richards. Molly Ivins. Jim Hightower. Ralph Yarborough. Townes Van Zandt. Bob Wills. Willie Nelson. Delbert McClinton. T-Bone Walker.
Approximately a push, I’d say.
marymccurnin @ 332
Nope, not white trash. They have standards. Dubya is America’s hereditary elite at its finest (look at Paris as another example).
marymccurnin @ 319
Sheep!
Aliens!
Joke!
Woah, woah, woah. I’ve been following this story for a couple of days, and those lines only just sunk in.
Now assuming he did write that, and I’m only making that qualification because there is still some tiny level of dispute, he’s employed as a spokesman. It’s his job to relay and inform the world at large, and it follows that includes clearing up misconceptions. If he’s been enjoying Glenn’s ‘diatribes’ (I think there’s an irony accusing someone of writing them whilst indulging in one), wouldn’t it be his duty to communicate the ‘truth’? By continuing to laugh at falsehoods without making the effort to correct them, when you are employed to do so, would really be the PR equivalent of dereliction of duty.
This leads to something that has struck me as weird from the start, he’s complained about having his communications with a journalist/blogger posted in full. This is in effect a total record of conversation, he has been quoted. Now he might have reason to be annoyed in any number of scenarios, but the problem for him is that he is conducting these communications using an official resource, in an official capacity, concerning topics that are his responsibility to communicate. Since he is a spokesman, it follows that everything he says in that capacity is in effect a press release. A spokesman who is repeating the official line ‘off the record’ is doing nothing more than trying to reinforce their argument by creating phantom echoes in the media. This process is nothing new, but it is rare to see it so nicely encapsulated.
To me the biggest (and easiest) problem here, rather than being subjective measures like tone or his ‘truthiness’, is failing to do his job. He is refusing to go on the record, and refusing to communicate with the press when he is forced to. In a working system he would be subject to some official censure, even reassignment.
On the other hand: I literally have some of my best friends in Austin, and a grandfather from San Antonio, and don’t let’s forget Jim Hightower, Molly Ivens, Kinky Friedman, et al.
But ya gotta admit, the nasty cluster is pretty striking.
Teddy-
I am fearing getting EPU’d, but I am doing the google as penance for the wiki time you can never get back. I have no answer yet. But, this does show a declining number of views for the debates, over the decades:
General Campaign- Presidential Debates
~~How Many People Watch Presidential Debates?
~~~Millions of Viewers for Each Debate
1960- ave. 60.4 (millions)
2000- ave. not given, but 46.6, 37.5 and 37.7(millions) in successive debates.
and Ann Richards and Dan Rather.
marymccurnin @ 339
LOLOL!!!
TeddySanFran @ 299
I thought it was clear that Russert was looking for soundbites he could use against Clinton on MTP. Very clear. And the reason I love Hillary is that she didn’t give him the opportunity. She was debating the other dem candidates as well as Russert…and won!
Hmmm. @ 327
2 words in defense of Texas – Barbara Jordan – ’nuff said
kirk murphy @ 334
Frankly, I don’t see much difference between her policy positions and those of Nixon and Ford, who by today’s standards were really quite moderate conservatives (even if Nixon personally was a flaming, power mad asshole and drafted my sorry hippie ass).
Wil @ 346
and Cassie
CTuttle @ 335
Nope, he just likes playin’ dress up.
Excellent read, and Hill WAS very strong.
marymccurnin @ 339
dang, that one flew right by me.. and it was a good one.. thanks for helping me through yet another blonde in childhood moment (catches up with me occasionally)
RonD @ 304
I didn’t sense that as much tonight from Edwards as I did from Biden, Richardson, Obama et.al. Gravel wasn’t there, was he? I had far too many phone calls tonight…
TexBetsy @ 348
Yep.
New Thread…
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…../#comments
No. Gravel was holding a press conference across the street after being excluded from the debate. I don’t know the details.
TeddySanFran @ 306
Or if possibly someone is making this stuff up for financial gain?
I will never support Hillary. Kyl/Lieberman is just one reason. But I hate the way these debates place Hillary on center stage and the whole showdown revolves around “taking her down.” And Russert is one of those repukes almost pervertedly obsessed with Clinton. *That* as a woman bothered me. I could see him look a little red faced and antsy like a prevert honing in on a school girl. Sorry for the gross metaphor. But that’s the essense of my disgust.
And the questions should have included FISA, and SCHIP and also the recent stuff. The kyl/Lieberman vote. All of that. Instead the questions were either Lou Dobbsian or Reptilican framed for Mary Matalin.
burnspbesq @ 337
Good point.
RonD @ 350
Yeah, Russert just pisses me off. I can…not…stand watching and listening to that phony, narcissistic blow-hard.
that reminds me – when gene wilder drank woolite, I couldn’t see the vintage.
VG – no wories – it was a joke! (a good one)
when perrinochio stops lying for a week, then I’ll worry about whether the sheep-fuckinig Constitution-raping bastards were spawned te same hatch day.
Valley Girl @ 260
This Glenn Greenwald thing needs a bit of context. Much of relates to someone in the military giving documents and private information about “whistleblowers” to the right-wing attack machine (Malkin, O’Reilly, Limbaugh) without providing supportive materials (allowing them to check up on it) to the bloggers or Media sources that originally published the articles on it. In addition they order the “whistleblower” into silence, not allowing them to defend themselves.
Greenwald pointed out this fuckery after many efforts to speak with a fellow named Beauchamp, who had written an anonymous report about what he had seen on patrols in Iraq.Initially Malkin and others said that this wasn’t a “real soldier”. Evidence was provided that indeed he was, by a major media source in Iraq.
Then someone in the military blew his anomnimity.
[Presumably by accessing his internet account…wait…that would require going through thousands of accounts to identify him, wouldn’t it. Nawww! They wouldn’t do THAT to the troops!]
Then they issued select aspects of his unit, and sicced the dogs on him for leaking “classified information” (as if a patrol weeks old would have been secret). Then they denied that he actually had gone on those patrols and that his accounts were full of lies (which makes the whole “He was releasing secrets” argument fall apart…secrets about events that didn’t happen?)
Then they claimed, using “an uncited source in the military” that statements from his fellow members on that patrol were taken (Hey! What about Beauchamp never going on patrol?) and they totally contradicted his report.
Well, Greenwald was slightly upset with being unable to get “on the record” statements from the military. He constantly hit the wall with Col. Boylan, who appears to be the “point man” on this issue for the media. So Greenwald made the veiled and nuanced statement that someone close to the issue was providing the right-wing hit machine with private personnel material to attack Beauchamp.
That shit apparently hit the target like a piece of chimp scat aimed at the zookeeper. Boylan flipped out. He sent off Greenwald a nasty letter asserting that the material wasn’t “classified” and, anyways, that suggesting that he had something to do with it was “unfounded”. Hmm!
Greenwald then started publishing and commenting on the emails that he got from Col. Boylan, which led to Boylan telling him that the email was personal and that he didn’t want it published. Greenwald said he doesn’t deal with “anonymous sources” particularly when the terms weren’t agreed to in advance. Hmm! Boylan seems to write emails to the media that he intends to be “not for publication” or at least, “under his name”. Interesting…the exact “modus operandi” the right-wing bloggers were obtaining info. And Boylan assumed that Greenwald would do this.
That’s when Boylan started writing the invective…and then denying that he had. Greenwald had cornered him in a series of dissembling statements that suggested it was Boylan himself who was feeding Malkin, Limbaugh, O’Reilly and others with this personal information.
Boylan then denies that he was the one that was actually writing these emails! Despite the fact that the internet machine protocol and routing numbers were completely congruent with Boylans! And that the formatting within the emails sent, and the style were the same. And that whomever wrote the later email was completely aware of the contents of the EARLIER emails.
Yet Boylan suggests that he has been a victim…a VICTIM…of IDENTITY THEFT. Well, not to put hat in CAPS…in fact, he seems to be completely non-plusse about the fact that someone has hacked into the Defense Departments Military Communication system, into his personal account and read secure “private” emails and sent others out on his own computer. He doesn’t seem very concerned that a “mole” has infiltrated his Department and started communicating in an unprofessional manner with the public. And he also seems unconcerned that this person may have communicated “information” (possibly false) to the “citizen journalists” out there, under the authority of his office.
Either that or Greenwald has his macademias nailed to a cactus!
Well, it would appear that the good Colonel is a victim of cross-dimension misrepresentation. Clearly, some other Colonel in some other alternate universe seems to be observing some other events being discussed by some other General Petreus. I wonder if any of them wear goatees by any chance.
Given the possibilty of a further collapse in the number of bees occuring this winter and the liky effect on food prices maybe we should start arguing for a toal ban on chemicals and/or gneticaly modified crops.
Then give the bees a few years space to recover. Sure we would lose more food short term but the greater reliance on food that doesn’t need to be polinated if there is any could bolster their price.
Our farmers could plant those crops and make a killing or they could order more bees and hope that chemicals were the cause. Right now we order more bees and they die next winter. We don’t seem to order enough? Maybe supply is limited or government intervention is needed to buy enough and stop killing the bees with chemcals.
Our candidates must be prepared for this issue.
Tweety was being a GOP shill again saying that we Dems have surrendered the tax issue to the GOP.
Where did he go to school? We owe thanks to G.W a lot of money becase of the war. By ending the war we stop spending. Debt as Milton Friedman says is a tax deffered for another time ( I love throwing GOP hackery back in their face).
Continue the war we get more debt and since we won’t be paying the debt off until the war is over more intrest on the debt. Which means Chris A BIGGER TAX INCREASE!
Where is Hilary on this Rudy rode Bill’s economy to get NY York out of money trouble she needs to smack him!
Dems should attack the GOP’s ideas! Dems though are attacking the invade Iran thing Hilary signed which is good. Next how about getting all the candidates to sign on about ending the war now?