I’ve been on vacation and out of circulation for the past week, so I’m scrambling to get caught up on all the latest goings-on. Turns out that reading a week’s worth of stuff in a compressed timeframe can sometimes make it easier to catch interesting juxtapositions. Two items in particular that jumped out at me:
Frank Rich’s column this Sunday talked about how Giuliani’s continued popularity with Republicans, even in Bible Belt South Carolina, demonstrates the severely diminished clout of the religious right, even on their home turf.
Meanwhile, on the Democratic side, Chris Bowers had a long post yesterday about how Obama effectively doomed his own campaign with his willingness to emphasize capitulation unity and religious pandering over progressive values (see: McClurkin, Donnie), thus alienating the liberal “creative class” who really really wanted to support him.
Taken together, these two pieces suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, Republicans and Democrats alike will finally stop fearing the wrath of the right-wing fundies. It doesn’t pay dividends on the Republican side (how are those Huckabee and Brownback campaigns doing?), and it’s downright suicidal on the Democratic side.
This is not to say that Democrats should be actively hostile or indifferent to religion; just that they should never equate intolerance with piety. if Christian Democrats want to show off how religious they are, they can talk about progressive New Testament virtues like peace, compassion and tolerance instead of throwing gays overboard.
Related posts:
- Okay, You Influence Peddlers, Listen Up… Public Option Action Making a Difference
- Jim Cooper: How to Win Friends and Influence People in the Tennessee 5th
- The “Atlantic 50″ Exposes Liberal Media Influence (or Not)
- Republicans Move to Permit Credit Card Companies to Jack Up Their Rates for the Next Several Weeks
- The Limbaugh Party: Racist Through and Through





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ooh
Hi Eli!!
sneaky
hiya eli!
Hi ccmask!!
2
Hiya Snarky!
hey Eli, welcome back — hope you had a nice vacation!
hate to say zed, but it seems de rigeur.
Hi everyone! Happy Hallow Eve.
cool!!!!
Hey LL! Very good vacation, thanks!
Eli! Wow, Obama came out swinging…!
Eli, Okay to talk about the debate?
Loo Hoo. @ 14
It’s going to happen anyway…
As to the substance: the religious people of this country are for the most part decent people. Their gullibility probably doesn’t exceed that of other Americans. They were used, and they are beginning to see that they were used. I think that is what we are seeing in the primary run-up.
Very sad about Obama, but he’s young and smart, and next time around will get better advisors, and will trust his instincts rather than polls that don’t give their standard error.
Eli, are your pets ready for Halloween? Mine are!
Hillary dancin like a mofo.
Eli @ 15
You’re such a good sport! This seems to be deja vu of the Repug debate, Hillary, Hillary, Hillary… Just the Dem contenders now…! 8-)
Mr Potato Head holds her feet to the fire on Iran.
Knut Wicksell @ 16
Yep, I agree. Hopefully the political class will start catching on that the religious right is not representative of the religious community as a whole, and that they don’t need to use the religious right’s narratives to appeal to Christians in general.
who is potato head?
SnarKassandra @ 22
Russert
Don’t forget Senator Dodd’s debate clock.
SnarKassandra @ 22
Tim Russell, the co-moderator…
I’m ready for the debate. A jug of wine, a bowl of popcorn, and thou.
Eureka Springs @ 24
The train is on time.
Forgive the OT, Robert Goulet RIP
CTuttle @ 25
RusserT
solai @ 26
Ha! And somebody had the nerve to call right now.
dakine01 @ 28
NOOOOOO!!!!
Eli @ 31
Waiting for a lung.
solai @ 26
:)
a glass of wine is a fine idea — and the popcorn too
Eli @ 21
I think he would be a great Justice, or Veep!
raven @ 32
Sadly ironic.
Biden and Dodd are saying the vote on sanctions on Iran gives the president the right to bomb Iran. This is dangerous. They are giving Bush authority he has NOT been given.
Love the backlash on the Kyl-Lieberman bill. That was an awful vote.
Knut Wicksell @ 16
yo . . . lots of us religious people are pretty smart and far from gullible. Please don’t stereotype us.
Anyone want a glass of Tequila Rose with me?
ccmask @ 39
*clink*
got lime?
but i thought russert is pumpkin head
Biden gave one of the best responses of the evening..so far.
I don’t think you would put lemon in this LooHoo. It looks like Beptmo Bismo.
raven @ 23
I thought Russert was Pumpkinhead…name notwithstanding.
solai @ 37
That, and her halfassed withdrawal plan, are Hillary’s achilles heel. If they become public knowledge, she loses the antiwar vote.
My bet is that the media is soft-pedaling Hillary’s hawkish tendencies until the general election…
Loo Hoo. @ 36
They are recognizing the reality that this admin would take the vote as authorization, no matter what the legal aspects of it are.
Hanky Power Hillary!
Dodd, Biden, Obama, Clinton… let’s talk to them… Duh!!!
SnarKassandra @ 42
Many nicknames has Timmeh…
Hillary wants congress to pass a bill stating that Bush has no authority to go after Iran. HE HAS NO AUTHORITY!
salt, lime, & tequila. I’m with you guys. :)
Edwards!
Why is Hillary wearing black & brown. She took advantage of her gender in earlier debates by standing out with a smart, brightly colored jacket.
*swoon* Edwards… ‘Just say No!
Edwards, give this president an inch and he’ll take a mile. Democrats need to stand up and say NO to bush.
eCAHNomics @ 54
remember the night all of y’all were finding different words for her orange jacket?
Edwards /Dodd
eCAHNomics @ 54
Halloween theme.
dakine01 @ 28
Joey Bishop too.
Texas Across the River was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid.
I took profound lessons from that particular film.
As a gay man I don’t want to see Obama anywhere near any national office.
Elliott @ 33
And thou. The most important part is the “Thou”.
SnarKassandra @ 57
I must not have been there. I liked the clothes she wore in earlier debates.
I like the brown. She looks festive. I’ll have another drink.
Millineryman @ 61
He has imploded and won’t recover.
Snark ~~~
“All ya’ll” – haven’t heard that in a long time
Richardson is difficult to listen to. He goes off the reservation with every question.
Millineryman @ 61
as a straight woman I feel the same thing.
Millineryman @ 61
As a straight man, ditto!
Has anyone ever asked a modern-day conservative, “If the Second Amendment is such a great idea, why shouldn’t Iran be allowed to have a nuclear weapon?”
It would just be the Second Amendment writ large-on a global scale.
Ahgoo @ 66
youse dont say dat?
i love Kucinich too
solai @ 62
that was in the smile :)
God bless Kucinich..
Go, Dennis, Go!
Kuchinich speaks truth and the audience responds.
sadly yes @ 72
Me, too. He’s the real deal.
Hillary makes a fool of punkin.
RevDeb @ 38
Just referring to the mean, not the whole distribution.
Dems are at least Sane people…Redpukes are batshit insane
Snark~~ I sure do say “all ya’ll.” It’s them others around me
Good for Obama for talking about fear. But I think he didn’t have a nice succinct example of how the policy of fear has corroded the country.
Good point Biden, don’t make me like you, I’ve already picked my fav’s….
Biden sounds better tonight so far. Not blowing his top.
Obama just made a good point. We are the most powerful nation in the world. Enough with the fear bulls**t.
Loo Hoo. @ 85
Isn’t that what the plugs are for?
is Biden the blondish one?
Hmm…
Dodd Edwards
Anyone notice how they no longer ask questions about what they will do for the American people?
Damn, I like all except the 2 front runners and Richardson, who technically, I agree with on 95% issues.
Hmm.
Millineryman @ 61
MM- Hey! That whole episode was sickening and revealing. Not that I was ever ever an Obama supporter.
Gut reaction, as I said in a comment to ES the other eve in comments on some thread or another. Been trying to define for myself why I never trusted him. Best I can come up for now is that he’s just too into his own “charisma”.
eCAHNomics @ 83
He is simply refusing to attack Hillary substantially.. V.P. Obama??
redx @ 89
Edwards is not going to run for VP.
sadly yes @ 81
I’ll take anyone of ours, over anyone of theirs… And, that’s the rub with Hillary…! 8-(
Richardson’s not very articulate. Something quirky about the way he thinks.
Richardson is okay on this one…
Richardson pulling that, “in the audience” bullshit.
Richardson rescued someone from Abu Garaib and he’s in the audience.
AnnieW @ 91
they are decent people…pukes not so much
raven @ 97
what do you mean?
Eli @ 87
Guess so!!
eCAHNomics @ 96
I think it’s more about the way he speaks, his thought process is okay.
Quirky does sum it up.
Damn, I loves me some Dennis…
Loo Hoo. @ 98
I didn’t know this. How?
Again, why isn’t Dennis a front runner????
Elliott @ 101
Someone he negotiated a release from Saddam’s Abu Grabe is there. I just don’t like that crap no matter who does it.
Kuchinich- time to enforce the non proliferation treaty. US should be leading on this.
We need to stop ratcheting up the calls for war.
sadly yes @ 58
I say once again, if Dodd is not the lead on the ticket, he needs to stay in the Senate rather than having the R governor appoint his replacement and throw it to Shays or Nancy Johnson or such.
I am so sick of this “Everyone knows Iran wants a nuke” meme. I have yet to see one shred of actual evidence of this…but even Valerie said so on KO the other night. The IAEA says not so…Please. ONE SHRED of solid evidence. Not Powell-at-the-UN evidence, but REAL evidence. Anyone?
solai @ 105
Richardson has been active in Iraq and the ME in general…
eCAHNomics @ 96
He comes up with stuff that really make you wonder; Such as Bryon White “the best SCOTUS Justice” WTF?
AnnieW @ 105
Cause he has funny looking ears and the media won’t put him on TV.
raven @ 106
thanks for explaining, raven. it is crap.
Yea, Dennis. “Stop the rhetoric about war with Iran. This needs to stop” Paraphrased
Hillary just swung left….
AnnieW @ 106
Peace Department, ring any bells…
raven @ 107
In 1995, he traveled to Baghdad with Peter Bourne and engaged in lengthy one-on-one negotiations with Saddam Hussein to secure the release of two American aerospace workers who had been captured by the Iraqis after wandering over the Kuwaiti border. He became a member of the Democratic leadership, where he worked closely with Bill Clinton on several issues.
“language of the neocons”
Why doesn’t somebody say Lieberman is batshit crazy and nobody should be following him anywhere, on anything?
Hillary, the war is over. Bring the troops home now. January 2009 is a long time away.
Hillary will begin bringing troops home from Iraq the minute she is pres. We need to work with the Iraqi gov and send out our diplomats to all of the tinderboxes in the world that Bush has caused.
RonD @ 109
so true…if they wanted one…they prolly could have bought one from Pakistan …
RonD @ 71
I don’t think I would do that as it would cause their head to explode like Linda Blair in The Exorcist
nah – no Obama as 2nd on the ticket… I don’t want him anywhere near the WH… that dog-whistle BS with the homophobic preacher really set my alarm bells off fully…
OT:
Subtle what Clinton says – they do need to go in and pop the bubble and then figure out whats going on and review the sane reports and investigations. Hope we get a good one and they pick the right VP and cabinet.
AnnieW @ 105
I thought that I had Kucinich’s politics pegged until I looked at his voting record..His progressive voting score put him at 116 out of 223 Dems. The usual names lead the scores.
Obama wasn’t in the Senate when they voted on the AUMF for Iraq, was he?
SnarKassandra @ 112
Worse, he’s a vegitarian and short. Damn.
Edwards with that “combat troops” bs. It don’t fly dog.
Iraq disarmed? Saddam held accountable? Iraq has a new Constitution and government?
Check.
The war we started is over-we won. End the occupation.
CTuttle @ 115
i think it’s a great idea – you don’t?
Jane Hamsher @ 118
i will say it…Loserman is a venal batshit putz!
RonD @ 109
There is no evidence. I’m waiting for some D to say so. Not holding my breath while waiting, however.
Hillary just said Iran is a tinderbox. No evidence of that either, except insofar as we’ve been provoking Iran.
Except for some religious nutcases in charge and, in keeping with Eli’s theme, they’re becoming less relevant as time goes on (according to Barbara Slavin in her new book), Iran seems like a nice country. They haven’t attacked anyone for centuries, they have a wonderful cultural history, and the citizens (used to) really like us.
Man, Obama is looking lousy tonight, just talking in paragraphs instead of answering the questions.
AnnieW @ 127
How tall do I have to grow before 2032?
OldCoastie @ 127
Illinois State Senate…
It has been an interesting day politically.
lahoma
Edwards knocking Hillary. Hillary glaring at him.
Edwards-I will bring troops home from Iraq in the first year of my presidency. We need to learn from the past, we cannot trust this president.
We should not be in primary vs. general election mode. Sites a NYTimes artile. Hillary’s pissed.
CTuttle @ 55
John Edwards is soooooo articulate and so far I’m more impressed with Edwards and Kucinich and a bit surprised Joe Biden sounds so weary. Hoping Chris Dodd relaxes and finds his stride.
Hey VG! Very insightful about him being into his own charisma. You just nailed for me also.
After he blew off Ned, an ardent anti-war candidate, I knew he was all fluff. Afterall why wouldn’t Obama want as much support as he could get to end the war?
Unless he calculated that the media attention on Ned would be take the media attention away from him and his candidacy for President. After all his one claim to fame was he opposed the war in 2002.
Oh, special ops are not combat troops. Right
Senator Clinton blowing it with her rebuttal to Edwards about “Al Qaeda in Iraq”
We women are cut some slack in that department, but if you gain weight….
Edwards I think is making good points, but I wish he would stop smiling and trying to look pretty so much.
selise @ 131
I like it personally, however, it won’t get him elected…! 8-(
OldCoastie @ 126
No and he is weaseling on his position re: Iranian Rev Guard= Terrorists.
I’ll give this much to Hillary. She’s playing the Presidential card. Of the candidates she isthe most ‘presidential’, in the sense of ‘Madame President.’ She exudes power. I support Edwards. But she’s learned a lot from her husband, who wanted to make the American people see the Presidency as just another job that requires a highly skilled practitioner.
Americans like to be afraid of their Presidents. She makes me afraid.
Steve-AR @ 126
Perfect example of a flawed scoring… For example Dennis voted no on the first version of SCHIP because it excluded non citizen children.. he often votes no when bills are not progressive enough… If his vote would have been a deciding factor..he would have voted for SCHIP originally..and of course he voted to over ride Bush’s veto.
dakine01 @ 142
yup
SnarKassandra @ 133
And the latest is that a UFO communicated with him.
dakine01 @ 142
Agreed. I hope the other candidates call her on it after the break.
BlueMesa @ 144
he cant help it
he is a good looking man…and a very decent human being…good combo imo
SnarKassandra @ 135
Whatever your genes dictate, Cassie, you’ve got my vote when you’re eligible! *g*
Knut Wicksell @ 148
If she wins, the first chance she gets she will bring pee (attack) on someone to “prove” she’s got the right stuff. I’m tellin ya right now.
CTuttle @ 144
fair enough.
I thought I read somebody here say they were at the nati-war demo in Orlando, Fl. Anyone know who it was? Dawn?
Well, now who’s lyin’?
Dana Dimwit says the WH is “negotiating” changes in SCHIP with Republicans only because it offered to negotiate with Dems but were turned down. She thinks. Pelosi says bullshit.
Who ya think is lyin’?
Eli @ 86
heh, heh – you slay me Eli!
between Obama not being there for the Iraq vote and just not being present for the Iran vote… well, that’s an awful lot of horseshit…
for some reason, I can take Edwards giving Hillary a knock, but it pisses me off when Obama does it… I kinda want to yell, “you young whippersnapper! watch your manners! (and while you’re at it, get off my lawn!”"
‘course, I could just be grumpy tonight…
OldCoastie @ 159
How is your pup?
sadly yes @ 148
I agree. Her first mistake?
raven @ 141
Aren’t they unlawful combatants?
Knut Wicksell @ 147
It may be the other way; Hillary provided the gravitas and toughness.
This is total bullshit, it’s all Hillary.
Worth repeating, perhaps:
“if Christian Democrats want to show off how religious they are, they can talk about progressive New Testament virtues like peace, compassion and tolerance instead of throwing gays overboard.”
Hill sounds weak on this answer
What a dumbass question that was wrt rudy.
eCAHNomics @ 162
Seals, SF. . .nah, the tip of the spear.
Beerfart Liberal @ 156
Punctuation is important. Sometimes. (Not spelling, though. Spelling is bulshit.) Should be a comma after “only.” As in, he’s only negotiating with Republicans.
All Hillary, all the time…
When do they have the dems and the repubs debate at the same time on the same stage?
Hillary has the mic with four more minutes control under her belt than the next in line already.
http://chrisdodd.com/blog/ (dodd clock)
newspaperbrat @ 156
“Teefs ‘n Tufts” Biden!
Good Q about National Archives. Clintons won’t let docs between the two of them be released.
SnarKassandra @ 170
after the primaries and each party has a nominee
eCAHNomics @ 161
Many times a few SpecOps guys can make a whole lot of regular soldiers unnecessary.
Lahoma and I have just begun watching the debate. I await her conclusion.
SnarKassandra @ 171
When there are only one candidate on each side.
Why not let five from each side debate now?
oh Obama just scored a glancing blow
raven – pup’s doing much better – she’s all goosed up more oil in her food and everything outdoors is hosed off and the air is much better… so, I don’t know what was causing the problem, but something fixed it.
The archives question. Those communications will be released the second she secures the nomination. It’s their ace in the hole.
This is not a debate. It’s a group press conference.
SnarKassandra @ 170
Fistfight.
RonD @ 176
Pends on the mission. They also deplete line units by taking the best troops out.
OldCoastie @ 181
Good news.
I’m turning it off now. It’s like Chinese water torture listening to this bull crap. The questions are written by Dick Cheney anyway.
RonD @ 175
My Q is a serious one. Don’t U.S. special ops fit the U.S. description of unlawful combatants? They don’t wear uniforms, for example.
Russert asking Hill about archives between Hillary and Bill.
Hill says national archives will move as they can and that she has no control over it.
Obama calling her on it. What we don’t need is another 8 years of bickering.
Edwards says republicans want to run against Hillary.
sadly yes @ 179
Yep, score one for Barack!
RonD @ 182
Nope. Clintons are just as secretive as W.
Edwards is fighting for it.
Hillary fidgeting with Edwards criticisms and getting pissed…
oh Edwards sounds presidential
I’ve got to agree that they aren’t giving enough time to the people who aren’t “frontrunners”
Loo Hoo. @ 187
I’m not a Hillary person, but the very question was bullshit.
Sorry RonD. I meant to click on quote solai @ 181. And now it won’t let me edit mine, for some reason.
Holy fuck, Dodd’s debate clock is showing supreme unfairness.
Hill is UNCONVINCING, sorry
Edwards says Hillary stands for the status quo.
Hillary says the Supreme Court handed the presidency to Bush. She says she will take 10 billion from the corporations like pharmaceuticals.
I rather like it when Hil and Edwards mix it up…
Edwards saying it!
“The system is broke. Who has raised the most money from healthcare companies, oil companies, drug companies… Is the person that has raised the most money from all these companies going to change things?…If you want status quo, then Senator Clinton should be your choice.”
Go John! I wish he would do this direct attack style more often, he used to do it when the campaign started.
solai @ 197
nothing new there.
Edwards looks and sounds good. Though I do like Clinton’s remark about the SCOTUS handing the election to Bush in 2000. And her remarks about Halliburton too.
solai @ 197
I don’t need the clock to show that, this isn’t a debate.
RonD @ 201
woo hoo!
solai @ 197
Sorry for the language. I think I better put the wine away.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 203
did she call halliburton crooks?
It’s a hillary infomercial.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 203
but what did she do about it?
I’m still not sold on Edwards as a campaigner, and I think he lacks balls sometimes, but he definitely “gets it” on campaign finance and social inequality.
solai @ 150
You’re not going to believe this, but I met a woman who had the same ‘triangular thingie in the sky’ experience when she and another woman were out driving at night. The other woman later said she’d figured out it was a surveillance craft, but I sure can’t place anything that behaves the way she described.
Oh yeah; the ’scent of roses’? She’s smelled those, too, and so have I, and she doesn’t wear perfume.
Dennis has been cursed with odd experiences, shortness and apparently a great mind and heart. Blessed with a lovely wife, though.
No problem, eCAHN! A pleasure to liveblog with you.
Richardson is saying that Obama and Edwards are slamming Hillary. He is looking for a VP spot?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 204
I step away for a couple of days, and come back to find OKK saying somthing nice about Hillary? Twice?
*g*
Are Bin Laden and Ahmadinejad giving post debate spin for Senators Obama and Clinton?
-Rudy Mussolini
i agree Richardson is a little weird…didnt he work for Kissenger?
Loo Hoo. @ 78
Isn’t that like shooting fish in a barrel? ;-)
Dodd finally gets a question and its about hillary.
Thanks everyone for the live blogging, as I don’t have a TV.
Loo Hoo. @ 214
Bayh probably has that wrapped up already.
Peterr @ 215
However, lahoma still hasn’t weighed in…
Peterr @ 216
Might be Lahoma logged in as the OKK.
Shit. Dodd going after Edwards. We don’t need that.
Loo Hoo. @ 213
Thought that too.
Richardson is sounding a little desperate.
Dodd saying it big time.
Eli @ 211
Do you think he’s learned from 2004?
Richardson does have all he credentials. Yet, he doesn’t connect. I don’t know why. Not good at answering questions. But, I’d love to see him be a part of the administration.
Me neither. It’s on http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Dodd with Public Financed Campaigns. Go Dodd Go.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 221
I hope not. Bayh is so bland he fades into the woodwork.
Valley Girl @ 220
I can’t watch it either
Peterr @ 216
Reckon he lost a bet (or game of chess) with Lahoma? *s
RonD @ 224
no shiiiite!
I like Richardson’s comment about getting rid of “No Child Left Behind”.
Can one of these people call Bush an asshole? Please.
-GSD
solai @ 227
there’s something about him I don’t like. can’t say what tho
Edwards says he is about the future and that he doesn’t think the power should reside with the rich and powerful. Children are the important issue.
redx @ 229
Edwards is running a PFC!
Good back to Edwards. Good timing on getting a question. I had heard him respond to that before and its part of the long version.
Go DK
Oklahoma kiddo @ 234
Yeay!!!!!! no more stupid tests!!!!!
Twain @ 229
bet you a dollar it will be wes clark as clinton’s vp choice. who, i confess, i’ve never liked… ducking.
SnarKassandra @ 240
Hah! Dream on Missie…!
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 226
His “Two Americas” speech dates from 2004, and I thought that was a very strong message. But I thought the way he handled the attacks on Amanda Marcotte and Shakes was very telling, and very much less than admirable. He didn’t fire them, but he didn’t stick up for them either. He basically just hunkered down and waited for them to resign.
Eureka Springs @ 148
Dennis is the most progressive in the race. Those scores are misleading. I saw one with Senators, and Feingold was only in the middle of the pack. That is when I knew you had to take the scores with a grain of salt.
Kucinich saying he stands for single payer healthcare. What about my job, losing their home. Flip Bush’s tax stance.
eCAHNomics @ 188
Any aspect of special ops, or the military for that matter, could be construed as unlawful by someone’s definition. We have had troops “behind the lines” in civvies forever.
Dodd on how he can work with Republicans. I can do without that too.
I don’t want a Democrat that can work with Republicans. I want a Democrat that will put Republicans in jail! I want a Democrat that scares the complete living shit out of Republicans!
Working with Republicans at this point is offering the snake a ride across the river.
Sorry for the language.
I like the Biden is going specifically after the pugs…
Exactly 27 hours until my sweet 16!!!!!!!!!
Biden makes a funny!
GSD @ 235
Hillary called both Bush and Cheney assholes in a polite way.
Biden rocks right now.
RonD @ 201
With Hillary the question is who is using whom? So far corp. money hasn’t translated into votes.
Kucinich’s new wife is doing him some good. He’s finally figuring out how to communicate in a way that normal people will understand.
Twain @ 230
Who else is she gonna pick? She sure isn’t gonna pick old man Bayh. Vilsack is even more bland than Evan Bayh. I think she’ll stick with a DLC’er. Just my guess.
Good for Kucinich to try to bring the discussion back to real issues. I doubt the moderators will let him though.
Biden nailing Guilliani. Big time.
OldCoastie @ 248
I think you forgot the “L”. And he’s already got the “plugs.”
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 243
when progressive legislation actually starts coming up for votes – then the voting scores might make more sense.
RonD @ 247
I’m with you.
BlueMesa @ 256
It’s almost as if MSM coverage is determined by payola.
Go Bidden Go. He is rocking.
Oh Pumpkin head messing up the flow – his eyes are buggin like a jack o’ lantern.
night pups
solai @ 257
Bada Bing!
Eli @ 243
I know. That bugs me too. I was talking though about his debates with Darth Vader. he was so underwhelming then. I hope he learned.
New debate thread upstairs
selise @ 259
True, on both points…
Hill doesnt know what decimate means
Biden was cool, with his Rudy smackdowns.
Punkin asks Hillary why she changed her mind on the cap on social security and accuses her of having a public position and private position.
She does not want to balance ss on the backs of middle class and elderly. Bush wanted to decimate Clinton’s surplus to privatize social security. GOOD FOR HER!!
New thread. Zed’s been had.
Way too much Hillary.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 265
That was pretty bad, but I don’t really have any reason to believe he wouldn’t do the same thing next year.
If you can’t attack Cheney, who *can* you attack?
BlueMesa @ 256
Jane Hamsher @ 60
I don’t recall ever seeing that one. Going to look for it now!
BlueMesa @ 256
DK: Best line with him going off and then calling the debate a “BIG FLOP” if they don’t get on point.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 244
That why also look at the full list and also look at the individual votes..the database is pretty extensive. It seems a part of his somewhat low score is missing “close votes”.
What a despicable little apparatchnik Russert is. It seemed like Mary Matalin wrote his questions. Probably some of Williams too. “shirly maclaine says you saw a UFO (to kucinich).” I am glad Hillary smacked Russert with republican framing. I was horrified when Obama played into Republican hands with his subsequent answer. I was taken aback when Dodd raised his hand and attacked Hillary on the Spitzer id issue. I didn’t like him saying a license is a “privelege”. And Obama saying au contraire, “we can train them.” Other than that I thought Dodd and Edwards did well.
Obama overall looked like a HoJoe acolyte divider.
raven @ 18
LOL, one of the funniest things I’ve ever read.
BlueMesa @ 144
I think he’s been so serious lately that he’s just trying to connect visually with the public. It’s important for people to realize he DOES have a good sense of humor. Besides, he has a great smile.
GSD @ 235
Hilarious. Indeed, why hasn’t anyone called that horse’s ass what he is?
I guess it’s just so obvious we’ve moved on.
sadly yes @ 268
Tell her there are ten answers. Ha!
Twain @ 230
Bayh and Hillary are regionally mismatched. She needs a Southerner or a Westerner. Likely someone that is progressive and hasn’t set themselves up as totally antagonistic to her statements. Edwards is pushing himself away from that position. His attacks will be used by the Republicans…although they will have some problems making it sound like they aren’t attacking her for THEIR positions.
Wait, maybe Clinton-Edwards wouldn’t be such a bad strategy.