Hillary Clinton will follow Chris Dodd’s lead and oppose the Mukasey nomination:
We need an Attorney General who has the strength to challenge this Administration when it is wrong, who is committed to reestablishing the independence of the Department of Justice and to restoring respect for the Constitution and the rule of law. I am deeply troubled by Judge Mukasey’s continued unwillingness to clearly state his views on torture and unchecked Executive power.
The Attorney General is the chief defender of the rule of law in our country. After Alberto Gonzales’s troubled tenure, we cannot send a signal that the next Attorney General in any way condones torture or believes that the President is unconstrained by law. When we leave any doubt about our nation’s policy on torture, we send a terrible message to the rest of the world. Judge Mukasey has been given ample opportunity – both at his confirmation hearings and in his subsequent submission to the Judiciary Committee – to clarify his answers and categorically oppose the unacceptable interrogation techniques employed by this Administration. His failure to do so leaves me no choice but to oppose his nomination.
We need to restore the nation’s confidence in the Department of Justice. The Department must once again defend our Constitution and the rule of law without regard to ideology and partisanship. And we need to protect the country from terrorism while also respecting Americans’ civil liberties.
Responding to the threat of several Democrats to block the Mukasey nomination unless he gave a straight answer about waterboarding, Paul Powertool said:
[T]he case for not taking waterboarding off the table is sound, and a potential political winner, so it might make sense to call their bluff.
Looks like it wasn’t a “bluff” any more than it was a “political winner.”
Time’s blog of the year, ladies and gentlemen.
Related posts:
- Parody? No, It’s Michael Mukasey
- Sheila Jackson Lee Will Oppose Health Care Bill with Triggers or Opt-Outs*
- A Tale of Two Nominees: Why Civil Liberties “Extremists” are Disappointed in Obama
- Obama Administration Finally Takes a Stand against Waterboarding
- With His Children Still Missing, KSM’s Torture Continues
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Hey Jane,
Accountability and Rule of Law!!
Fantastic news!
Wow, calling out the administration and requiring future appointees to condemn torture is a “political winner”? It should be a no brainer even for people with lizard brains.
That comment from Paul Powertool is the height of political gamesmanship and cynicism. Freaks me out.
I guess the fuck-us groups must have voted consistently for HRC to utter anything approaching a position.
And she is where on telecom immunity again, oh yeah, in the lobbyists pocket. Hey, Hill Can You Hear US Now?
Best I can give her is, “Better late than never!”
Oh, I see Hillary has decided to take her moist index finger out of the breeze and take a position.
Nice leadership skills she displays. NOT!
about time. She waits for others to lead. Glad Dodd did so.
The Decider may not be happy about this, assuming he knows who Mukasey is and why he was nominated.
So why won’t Hillary take a stand on retroactive immunity for telecoms?
Here’s the deal with Hillary and the Mukasey bandwagon:
aye @ 9
follow the money . . . .
Anyone who may have contact especially in the NH media Rudi has a new ad in which he claims he is only survived prostate cancer because of private medical care in the us and that in the UK the prostate cancer rate of survival is 44%
a complete and total lie.
aye @ 9
Because it isn’t a political necessity yet. Guaranteed she’ll oppose immunity if it looks like it will fail.
Clinton has done the right thing. Credit where credit is due.
Re HRC and Mukasey. I am absolutely beside my self. So much so I am going to vote for Dodd, or someone else.
Disturbing is it not that they can come to an obvious moral and humane position only after the fact, and only after someone else stepped up to the plate. Thx Chris Dodd.
But whatever, it is still a step in the left direction (I cannot say right).
katherine Graham Cracker @ 12
Republic voters prefer the candidate who can lie best.
egregious @ 14
I respectfully disagree. Credit is due Dodd, but Hillary deserves nothing for this. Credit to those who lead, not those who follow.
egregious @ 14
Fair enough. Hilarity gets credit for this. But, she’s got a long way to go before I’ll even consider voting for her. Opposition to telecom immunity would be another step in the right direction though.
And so:
Yet another Dem debate tonight (with that loudmouth Tweety moderating things: who has also been egging Obama on to give it to Mama) in which Hillary-Mama will have yet another chance to wax and shine and shore up her presumptive nominee status, and in which Obama and Edwards will take potshots at her (”At my age getting a lot of attention from men is not a bad thing” she says in response).
And after which: More pointless bloviating from MSM pundits.
Now she needs to get on-board with true Patriots like Dodd and state that she will not support Telecom immunity too.
amazing what a presidential election can do
As to HRC’s latest move, I want to hear Arianna’s take on it. More importantly, I will listen to Lahoma.
Wow,
who pissed in her Cheerio’s?
I like what she says here, it is after all, the right thing to say.
However, one plus does not excuse so many minuses.
It’s like I keep saying, when you triangulate, you always wind up in a corner eventually.
Tross @ 18
Hillary really is relying on the low information voter to win. TPM had a statement from her history being wishy-washy on the vote for Mukasey. I know she isn’t blind, but this just further illustrates, she hasn’t come out more forcefully against Bush because she wants to use the powers he has accumulated. It’s as simple as that.
Let’s pause to remember that sinking feeling:
CNN: Aired December 18, 2000 – 12:00 p.m. ET
GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I told all four that there were going to be some times where we don’t agree with each other. But that’s OK. If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator.
If the Senate votes him down, he may actually appoint him as a recess appointment, because they are that obsessed with the unitary executive. He’s a war president ya know!
Hillary might be late but you can bet George Bush probably is reaching for his antacids.
This is not leadership. This is pandering to the electorate. Leadership would not have had to check which way the wind was blowing before taking a stand.
John Edwards should be the next POTUS. Edwards/Kucinich.
RevDeb @ 11
It might also have something to do with expanding powers that she already considers to be her own.
off topic
Romney is taking Moonie money.
egregious @ 14
Yes.
Bustednuckles @ 24
As I have been saying, someone in RNC was watching the French elections. Don’t be surprised if the Rethuglicans try to argue they are the agent of change. Sarkozy fooled the French electorate and pulled it off.
C&L just posted a link to Mukasey’s non-response response to Leahy. October 24, 2007 Letter
He did not help himself.
Bookmark this thread, if Madame Clinton is elected next year, I’m quite certain she’ll have to be reminded of her statement.
That statement has to give the Thugs bad dreams. If President Clinton tasks her AG and the DOJ to restore the rule of law, there will be a boom in prison construction.
For a Senator to oppose a “judicial” type nomination from their own state is not a trivial decision; especially when you fellow Senator proposed the nomination. Will Chuck throw Murkasey under the bus?
The cynic in me wonders if she was inspired by the donations Dodd racked up after taking his stance.
Biodun @ 20
Would you consider what happens here as blogviating? *g*
Not to be mean, but there are an awful lot of one-liner opinions…along with a lot of well thought out debates with links…to be sure.
Alice @ 30
The only thing I am surprised about is that Mitt is getting it and not Rudy(Who is Faux Noise’s preferred pick).
This would make me take notice: ‘Hillary Clinton has just announced her resignation from the DLC’. Or perhaps: ‘I blew it with my Iraq vote, and I will do everything I know to avoid conflict with Iran. Or: ‘The most important thing on my foreign policy agenda is seeking peace between Israel and the Palestinians’. Or perhaps: ‘I will bring our soldiers home from Iraq as soon as I become president and spend the savings on our children’. I could go on, but perhaps you get the picture.
I agree. Hillary did the right thing.
Also, I heard a little clue to this Hillary 24/7 on MSM…they are counting on the “Hillary is the nominee”..to fly in the face of the voters who are now categorized as “contrarians”. Contrarians don’t like to be told who to vote for and will deliberately vote for someone else…that is the tactic. MSNBC actually said that this morning. It is Rove, Rove, Rove.
sy @ 33
I’m not so sure he still wants the job.
Alice @ 30
There’s no Bush running yet so the Moonies need to find another candidate.
Steve-AR @ 35
Not quite following the dots you’re connecting here?
Prison construction here is booming quite nicely independently of all this :-/
Jane Hamsher @ 31
I have to say, after these last years, I kind of appreciate someone who doesn’t make knee-jerk decisions. We do seriously need a prez. who is willing to take the time to check her facts. I also have to agree that she took too long.
Biodun, Tweety isn’t moderating this debate – Brian Williams & Punkinhead – Tweety will follow with analysis.
How can She restore confidence when
Dems Implicated in Illegal Wiretapping Ready to Compromise:
The three Democrats most frequently briefed on the Warrantless Surveillance Program were Nancy Pelosi, Jane Harman and John D. Rockefeller.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/30/101037/57
So much for our Democratic leadership. And this probably explains why Hil is so weak on this issue.
LS @ 41
What self-respecting person WOULD want the job, given all the circumstances: need to kowtow to W & Vice; demoralized staff; highly politicized dept. A real Catch-22.
peanutbutter @ 43
I guess I forgot the *snark*..
Tross @ 18
I’d be willing to give some credit to a candidate who at least had the good sense to follow. I’d be willing to give more credit to that candidate if the issue she chose to follow on was, say, a Bush censure when Feingold asked for it. A whole lot of people missed the boat on that, so I’ll give partial credit. But I still think it’s kinda too little, too late.
My respect goes to Dodd. All I can say to Clinton is, “It’s about fucking time.”
As for Mukasey, I think he should try waterboarding, like the television reporter who did it, and see how long he could maintain that waterboard isn’t torture while experiencing it.
Prediction: Edwards landslide unless Gore runs.
Prediction: Edwards landslide unless Gore runs.
Maybe, but I will believe it when I see it.
LS @ 52
That would be fantastic!
TJ @ 51
I suppose all this focus on waterboarding is to the good. But I am much more disturbed about isolation & sensory deprivation.
Marcus Aurelius @ 28
The flip side is, if you can’t be elected, all of the good ideas are worth warm spit. If you get too far ahead of the electorate, you can’t win elections. I think Bill and Hillary’s big political lesson was in 1980, when Bill became the youngest ex-governor in history.
Are we prepared to say that Dodd forced Hillary’s hand?
Edwards/Dodd
Diane @ 45
Thanks for clarifying…
If Mukasey doesn’t make it, what then?
Hillary did the right thing, yes. But more than that, she just slapped both Mukasey, a NYC legal community insider, and Chuck Schumer, Mukasey’s proponent of AG right in the face.
The polling on the Mukasey waffle on waterboarding must be horrendous. Schumer has been very supportive of Hillary’s run, so it would be hard for her to screw him over like this.
I don’t see her doing something like this unless Schumer is either willing to acknowledge Mukasey is toast and throw in the towel
OR
unless Schumer has already got the votes he needs in his pocket.
Wow, this is some serious inside baseball.
Interesting how suddenly the frontrunners are spraining their ankles trying to follow Dodd lead each time?
LS @ 52
If the Obama campaign continues to self-destruct and a lot of support is transfered to Edwards, then it is possible.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
I think Condi is looking for a new job.
eCAHNomics @ 55
Your concern is valid. But the chances of ruling out isolation and sensory deprivation while allowing waterboarding are infinitesimal.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
I’m with whomever up above said recess appointment.
I think with Dodd leading this he’s right where he belongs. We need some strong leadership right there in the Senate. Good job Chris Dodd.
Here I see the messaging again. In the same post “Hillary” and “winning”. And we wonder why everyone thinks she’s winning when a single vote has not been cast. No wonder though when Hillary’s “I’m in to WIN” statement kicked off her campaign. I hope she likes surprises :-)
There’s been no vote on confirmation. He should be rejected out of hand, not have some idiotic discussion with him. Either he’s going to enforce the laws of the US or he’s not. He’s not, so buh bye… neeeeext. The blue arm of the republican party will confirm him.
Hillary only “opposes” it because she knows this confirmation is in the bag. It is. She’s safe to “speak out against” it and SAY she will oppose confirmation. Looks like she’s done something without having done a damn thing. True to form.
Oh, and on the telecom issue too. She’ll do the same thing. Nothing.
looseheaprop @ 61
OOO – Good catch and thanks LHP. I hadn’t put the whole NY thingee together. (She says as she sits in her office in NYC!!)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 57
Why not? heh. Please don’t misread my #2. I’d only vote for Hill. in general, not primary – NO WAY!
But I want the Mukasey nomination Off, Out, Gone, Dumped in the trash where it belongs. One thing at a time. Hillary wide stance now helps do that, for which I am thankful. ;->
If Gore doesn’t run, how ’bout a Dodd/Edwards tkt? Lahoma? You there?
looseheaprop @ 61
Exactly, Hillary’s statement is huge.
looseheaprop @ 61
My guess (unfortunately) is most likely the latter is the case and Schumer has the votes aleady in hand.
LS @ 58
From what I could see from the Triple Poll I conducted a couple of weeks ago, Edwards’ supporters and Dodd’s supporters are the same constituency. Combining them on a ticket won’t get them a larger proportion of the vote.
Mukasey is a political hack.
Ooooh. LS. Yes. It does sound better that way ’round. Edwards/Dodd. hmmmm.
LHP,
Did you see this? Prosecutions plummet in MA USA office since 2001. It might add a bit to your theories.
Eh? I thought he stated them pretty clearly in the hearing when he refused to say that waterboarding was torture and hence illegal. This does not inspire confidence in me.
Meanwhile, more caving-in to Chimpy:
looseheaprop @ 61
Didn’t Schumer back down a bit when Mukasey got all wobbly over waterboarding?
And yes, the inside baseball stuff is fascinating. The poll that Volokh cited (linked in the post) is old but it was the most recent one I could find. Probably is even more horrendous now.
I think it is door number 2.
TJ @ 70
But where will the progressives go who were supporting Obama?
For all those thinking that dumping Mukasey is some big victory, I beg to differ. I don’t think the Administration gives a rat’s ass about whether Mukasey is confirmed or not; in fact, they may well not even want him confirmed. That is why they installed wiretapping/telcom guru Peter Keisler as Acting AG; and if Mukasey’s nomination is scuttled, it resets Keisler’s time frame he can serve in that position to another full 210 day period. The Administration will trade you Mukasey for their wiretapping/FISA desires in a heartbeat, and that is what this is setting up as. Everybody breaks their water over Mukasey, then capitulates on retroactive immunity and basket warrants, which are the critical issues at hand. Don’t be suckered by the Mukasey shiny object.
TJ @ 70
… but what a ticket that would be!
1. We’d get whiplash, after 8 yrs of chimpy ‘n shooter.
2. It’d be worth it.
dakine01 @ 69
Well, then Biden, Dodd, and Hillary will end up looking weak and ineffectual won’t they? What are the chances that it’s to Hill’s advantage to lose her “i’m in charge” aura?
I thinks there may be a lot of sand shifting right now. Somebody’s got some polling that hasn’t been released to the media–I’d bet the ranch on it.
Adie @ 72
If Dodd is not the top of the ticket, please let him stay in the Senate rather than having the R governor appoint his replacement.
Biodun @ 75
Yes! This is some of what I was hoping for. I wanted them to make him come begging every quarter from now till his term expires. The little worm. I wouldn’t feel like this if he hadn’t been a total boob for so long. Seems he thinks he can dictate to Congress. He needs to be smacked down.
dakine01 @ 82
dang! you’re right…
RevDeb @ 78
It would be interesting to add that question to the poll – Who would you support if Obama is out of the race. However, I haven’t really gotten enough people to vote in the poll to make an update worthwhile. Jane got a couple thousand people voting. I maxed out at less than 10% of that.
Um, lhp. Do you own a ranch? *g*
I dislike it when I hear my pals (male and female) advise me that they will vote for someone because that person is a woman. I dislike it equally when someone tells me that they won’t for for a particular individual because that person is a woman.
looseheaprop @ 61
yes. very nice.
for the next round…. i’d like to see the front runners spraining their ankles (metaphorically only!) trying to get in out in front of dodd on defending the constitution (that will take some doing and would be a very good thing for the country).
maybe, just maybe… are we seeing the begining of an avalanche of support for doing the right thing? with dodd taking the lead and with the organizational muscle being provided by jane/glenn/matt/aclu/moveon/… ??
a citizen can hope!
RevDeb @ 74
Thanks for the link. Here is certainly a quote that bolsters my view of things
I keep sayin’, DOJ is being hollowed out. Pretty soon there won’t be anybody left to turn out the lights.
SDNY which at times would have at least on indictment press conference month, and even during fruitful periods, one a week–well, since Dave Kelley was involuntarily replaced by a republican (he was doing a great job, but suffered from the unforgivable sin of being a registered Dem), well under the new USA, we get the loud sound of crickets chirping.
Pacific northwest Firepup meetup
Katymine and I will be meeting up on 11/3 at 3pm at:
Blue Moose
4936 N.E. Fremont St
Portland, Oregon
Anyone in the area can join us…
I don’t think she’d have done it if Mukasey didn’t have the votes. I’m calling 53-47 Mukasey gets the nod.
I don’t support Obama or Hillary.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 87
I’d like to have a woman or minority as president. But Edwards and Dodd have shown significantly more leadership than Clinton and Obama. It’s actions that count.
Badwater @ 42
Both Mormons and Moonies are accused by the Fundies of being cults…when both assert that they are Christians…justb that they believe in later Prophets. Plus if you take Mitt Romneys initials (”RM”), reverse them and take them out of “MORMON” you get….
Oklahoma kiddo @ 88
Me too.
what a brave stand.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
This was one of the theories bandied about when Mucousey was nominated. They’d get wingnut extrodinaire Kiesler in there, which they did when displacing the somewhat reasonable Clement, and just have freakshow Kiesler rideout the term (no offense to freaks out there). Looks like it’s going as planned.
I felt this theory was proven over the weekend when I saw LindsayWhat? Graham and McCain express doubt about Mucousman. Now we have the spineless Dems, who rarely take a stand on anything unless it won’t ruffle any feathers in the power structures, coming out early and strongly against him.
Only conclusion: Word went out it was OK to oppose him for AG. Go ahead and score some “bipartisan” points if you’d like.
peanutbutter @ 36
unless she’s a fool she surely recognized dodd becomes a formaidable challenger since the showed this courage
she’s not as interested in the contributions as she is interested in how the competititon gets momentum
Woulda loved to have been a fly on the wall during the Clinton Schumer discussion.
I wonder if Mukasey is going to withdraw? If, in-fact, he is basically a decent person and between days one and two the WH beat the shit out of him..this will give him the out he needs. “A partisan vote will damage the DOJ..blah..blah
Garrett Fitzgerald @ 74
he also made it clear that in his mind the president is above the law when we are at war
this is really a no brainer, this man cannot be the ag
bmaz @ 80
So, do you think Mukasey should be confirmed?
bmaz @ 80
why does it have to be either/or ?
i want both – decent fisa legislation and the dems all against pro-torture AGs. if we’re going to have a pro-torture, pro-spying on americans AG – then let it be on the republican’s head and let the Ds stand for something better.
Hi Jane.
Hillary’s OK as a follower. Not sure how I feel about her as a leader, but she’s in the right on this one.
Jane @77
Schumer was the one who originally came up with the idea of Mukasey and sold it to the White House. That’s why I am so fascinted by this developement.
Not every poll that a campaign or party takes becomes public knowledge. In fact all the really juicy ones are closely held secrets.
I have a feeling that Mukasey’s answer on waterboaring may have been the kind of thing that breaks through to even low information voters.
I do know that my mother, who can never understand why I get so worked up over current affairs and who almost never used foul language, had several rude things to say about Mukasey (though she could not remeber his name–he’s just “that guy who’s interviewing to be the next AG”) becasue he would not disavow torture.
It shocked me that this factoid broke through to her, b/c she really does not follwo this kind of thing
TJ @ 94
There was a time when I would have done just about anything to help HRC become president.
I think it’s time for Congress to stop action on everything else until they make progress with subpeonas and FISA and restoring the Constitution.
Mukasey will hedge some more, just enough to blur the lines sufficiently, and Hil will vote FOR him.
Natch.
TheOtherWA @ 90
Might have to come meet you ladies.
Where’s my damn sticky notes?
bmaz @ 80
Oh, it may very well be that we are witnessing the ratfucking of Chuck Schumer. The WH hates Schumer for several thiings including foisting Comey on them via a complicated deal that, among other things, saddled EDNY with a horrendous excuse for a federal judge.
And for Schumer blocking Miguel Estrada from the bench almost single handedly. I know you guys are not fond of Chuck, but he managed quite a few “saves” during Bush’s first term by calling in favors, twisting arms, and doing some crazy assed deals.
Things involving DOJ would be much much worse than they are if not for Schumer.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 93
I believe he nailed it to the wall in his speech yesterday. I sent him some $ because of it.
bonkers @ 98
Recess appointment during TG. Bush will say that he can’t wait around any longer to fill the position, and it’s all the Dems fault for not getting anything done in a timely manner.
New Froomkin up The Stench of Torture.
Bustednuckles @ 109
Wonderful… please do
Adie @ 87
Busted by Adie!
Nope, I don’t
perris @ 98
The good thing is that she and others may get some cajones and realize that they have to start challenging the obscene policies of the Administration. If Dodd increased his profile and support as a result of his heroic and ethical stand, then perhaps the others will realize that they also have to make some stands as well.
TexBetsy @ 104
Leading? following? Leading Dems is like herding cats. Compare the Clinton and Obama campaigns..who is the leader?
My comment at 112 (awaiting moderation) should have said:
I’m not either. I liked John Edwards speech yesterday. I sent him some $ because of it.
Steve-AR @ 117
some guy in the back with a laptop?
True leadership here would be announcing a hold on Mukasey’s nomination, as Dodd has promised for any FISA-lawbreaking immunity legislation. But this statement from Clinton is heartening progress. Mukasey’s coy non-response (thus far) to the specific question about waterboarding from members of the Judiciary Committee is an implicit insult to the Senators who asked it, and thus to every American citizen.
If no one enforces the rule of law, is there a rule of law?
Here is the event link on FB for the Portland event
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=5599378138
pow wow @ 119
That is the correct question.
selise @ 104
Oh, Selise, I agree (but then you knew that, didn’t you?). I am just saying that I have seen this play too many times now, and our weak kneed Dems are quite capable of getting all puffed up from killing off the Mukasey nomination and then caving totally of the FISA issues, which is all the WH cares about. the white House should GET NOTHING on any of it. And no JF, I don’t think he should be confirmed, I am just saying that the real play is FISA and nobody should be fooled otherwise.
Jane Hamsher @ 31
Yes, indeed. She’s not my choice, but you take support where you can find it, and her support is crucial. I think the post above by JoeKleinsconscience is on the money. She is relying on low-information voters because sad to say and so dangerous for democracy, that’s where the votes are. Senator Clinton can’t move too fast because if she does she gets blindsided by negative ads, the way Kerry let himself get blindsided. This is the world we live in. You go to an election with the voters you have, not the ones you’d like to have.
The emergence of a large mass of uninformed voters who no longer have viable intermediaries between themselves and the governing classes is probably the crucial political development in my generation (since 1960). I think Hannah Arendt’s analysis of this phenomenon in post-World War I Europe is applicable to the United States today. The decline in party membership and local participation, the decline in the union movement, the rise of megachurches and tevee populism have gutted the intermediate institutions that until the early 1970s constituted the effective link between people and their government. It’s also why we are seeing the rise of a fascist movement.
TexBetsy @ 105
Generally agree, though I’ve tended to notice that she has been best at following the money.
From the get go, she has been much closer to the Bush/neocon line than I would ever have imagined or wanted from a NY Senator.
That said, this is a good strong statement. I’m glad she included something about unchecked executive power, not just the torture element that seems to have gotten through to low-info voters.
Badwater @ 17
Unfortunately, the bare statistic is basically correct.
See
see also. The problem is that there is no connection between the fact that there is a single payer govt system in the UK and low prostrate cancer survival rates. Across the rest of the EU there are much better survival rates. It is still true that the US still has better cancer survival rates than most of Europe,though not all, but the whole problem is that focusing on one set of diseases tells you nothing about the overall health system. None-the-less, it is a powerful ad even if it is a distortion. But that is a reThug specialty. I’d be interested in good ways to counter this sort of obfuscation. How do you counter a lie when the lie is not the fact but the conclusion without seeming like an academic?
Edwards is apparently gonna kick some butt tonight. I’d watch for Dodd to come out swingin’ hard too.
The operative word for any candidate who wants to win this election is “Restore the Constitution”…it goes across party lines. Also, “no retroactive immunity”, and really call out the Administration on Torture! That movie “Rendition” is coming out soon, and that is a good thing too.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
Hillary is going to be the next president. I don’t plan on voting for her in the primary, but there is no getting around the name recognition factor.
Our best bet is to try to get her on record supporting our most important positions. When politicians make high profile statements, they will be less likely to reverse themselves if we make a big deal about it.
Let’s give her major props and major airtime for anything she does that is good. If every time she backs a progressive position we stick out our tongues and tell her we don’t trust her, she will no longer listen to anything we say.
That doesn’t mean we can’t back another candidate. We should just be generous with our praise for all candidates.
bmaz @ 122
Which case gives us the best possibility of the worst case scenario – Mukasey getting confirmed, or the placeholder staying in?
What’s this bollocks about Blackwater being granted immunity by the State Department from prosecution in Iraq?
LS @ 127
Please pardon the correction but I think the term “amnesty” will resonate more than “retroactive immunity”
TexBetsy @ 118
With Hillary, I think it’s a woman with a laptop.
Sometimes when dealing w/ adults with arrested childhood development you have to stoop to their level to win. Time for congress to keep in sesssion in a minumum fashion for the next 14 months to prevent any recess appointments.
As long as we’re talking Hillary, she’s on CSPAN-2 right now (from 10/25) saying that after elected she will inaugurate an Apollo Program for renewable energy.
I accidentally hit the link for Power”tool” and decided to read it through to the end. Usual “24″ inspired “philosophy.” One point: a commenter testifies that he was waterboarded and survived and doesn’t consider it a big deal. Problem: He was undergoing that as part of SERE training.
Many years ago, I had an operation that didn’t involve any breakage/penetration of the skin but was EXTREMELY painful. I was okay in a day or so and psychologically, there were no scars. Why? I had faith that the doctor was not trying to hurt me! There was absolutely no doubt in my mind that the doctor performing this very, very painful operation was trying to heal me.
Same thing for someone in SERE school. There is confidence on the part of the student that the torment he is undergoing will end soon and that there will be no scars, psychic or otherwise.
Obviously, for someone undergoing waterboarding as an interrogation technique, there is no such confidence.
DR @ 127
…Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton…
How will future generations see this era?
Please forgive.
Mebbe I’m getting punchy, but reading down thru this thread sets me to giggling.
All the repubbles are whining over their lineup, eeewww from beginning to end,
and all you guys are whooping, WOWWWW! over a whole bunch-a possibilities.
This is a good thing, imho. ;->
LS @ 113
I would rather have BUSH make the recess appointment rather than have the Democrats go on record as confirming a man that can’t tell torture from a dip in the shallow end of a pool…and that supports unlimited Presidential power during a time of “war”. It seems that he forgot that Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus was overruled by the Supreme Court…and that was at a time of Civil Insurrection.
[The Supremes viewed the suspension as illegitimate because there were bona fide Federal Courts able to deal with these issues, and that turmoil had not closed down a functional judicial system as suggested in Article I of the Constitution as the reason why habeas corpus could be suspended.]
In other words, the argument that a President has unlimited extrajudicial power during wartime makes absolutely no sense. It’s a prescription for a dictatorship!
bmaz @ 124
yes.
and you may call me lucy.
Anybody get Howard Dean’s latest fundraising letter: “Take Back the White House?”
They said, “Please consider giving $225 toward our goal of $1 million.”
I didn’t realize Hillary has been President since 2000
from Crooks and Liars by John Amato
A keen observation by Digby:
I don’t know if anyone’s noticed, but George W. Bush is being disappeared from the presidential campaign and everyone’s running against incumbent Hillary Clinton. Subtly, but relentlessly, the public psyche is being prepared to deny Junior ever existed. And it could work…
I certainly don’t blame the Republicans for trying to do it. It makes sense, since their boy is an epic failure and the original Clinton is still very present in people’s minds. It will be quite a trick to pull off, but I can see the press already helping them do it. (Naturally.) It’s an interesting phenomenon and one for which I hope the Democratic strategists are prepared. Their underlying theme seems to be, “If you want change, vote Republican!”
And the media will lap this up.
I don’t have any confidence that Mrs Clinton is going to be any less of a secretive, authoritarian than what we’ve got. I don’t see her relinquishing one bit of the extraordinary powers Bush has seized. I trust her to make some better decisions, but we must try to do better than that.
The problem is, unless those powers are stripped from the Executive in the next administration, they’re going to last a long time.
What a stupid situation! Both us and the GOP are looking at probably candidates that we can barely stand. That means we’re practically guaranteed to have a President that most people will hate. That can’t be a good thing. We’ve already had enough of that.
DR, I understand you want us to be “generous with our praise for all candidates” no matter how badly they disappoint us (immunity for telecoms and Kyl/Lieberman, for example). That sounds too much like battered spouse syndrome to me.
We have tried to get her on record supporting our most important positions. It has not worked.
Time’s blog of the year, ladies and gentlemen.
You’ve got to be kidding me! I had never been to powerline before (I had no idea it was a cnn blog) so I went to the main page after the linked above item.
Wow. The first story right now is on the electability of Clinton, and dispensed this nugget of wisdom.
“The anti-Republican moment of 2006 is receding, and, in any event, it related mostly to Congressional hi-jinks and perhaps never had much to do with the 2008 Presidential race.”
Smgumby @ 145
Ack!!!!
TJ @ 71
I resemble that remark!
Bob in HI
TexBetsy @ 143
It was a stellar post over at Digby’s!! And she let the comments run freeeeee too. Refreshing to see, it was. :-)
JF @ 131
JF I don’t know. None of it is good. I am inclined to agree with Cinnimonape that Dems should not be on record confirming people like this. Ultimately, I don’t know that it matters Keisler will run the tecom/wiretapping/snooping stuff as long as he is there anyway. The real key is just to shut down this FISA legislation, which is bad on so many fronts; but most importantly 1) retroactive immunity 2) basket/group extended time warrants and 3) self policing and determination within the DOJ as opposed to a proper court.
there is one and only one way to restore the rule of law in the US: impeach bush and cheney; followed by conviction and removal. That no democrat other than Dennis Kucinich is pushing for impeachment makes democrats accomplices to the rampant on-going criminality of the bush/cheney administration.
History will deal harshly with Pelosi for not doing her job, and violating her oath to uphold the constitution and protect the American people from criminals within the government. History will also not be kind to any politician, democrat or republican who did nothing to stand up for America, Americans, and the constitution while enemies of the country relentlessly attacked America from within.
.
While I applaud HRC coming around on this, my cynical side has to assume this has more to do with deflecting a verbal beating in tonights debate.
Myrtle June @ 148
MSM is salivating over HRC/Giuliani rematch. they’ll do whatever it takes to make it happen and to make it close.
Maybe it’s something good…maybe something bad. Maybe it’s just Space Madness.
But don’t forget who started it.
I admit to early doubts that Dodd, despite strong positions on issues, was another DC insider in sheep’s clothing (e.g. his chumminess with Imus and Lieberdick reeked of Good-old-boy Network).
But he’s using his (hopeless?) candidacy to Make A Difference.
As Atrios says, you don’t have to endorse a candidate to reward Good Behavior.
Without Dodd, the whole FISA/immunity thing would be history, and we’d have the Senate on record approving an AG who approves torture and Imperial Presidency.
If you can’t send money, send thanks.
Thanks.
Obviously, there are an ASS of americans who are lusting after someone to go after the petroturds with both barrels. Take no prisoners. Name their bullshit for what it is.
Contrary to what some people think on the blogs where I post, I do not hate Hillary Clinton. She is not an ogress. A few years ago, I was one of her staunchest admirers.
No more.
To me, there is a TON of evidence that she is NOT the solution, but instead, is part of the problem. And if we nominate her, she will become a lot MORE of the problem, especially, as is VERY possible, if she loses and costs us the Senate, and maybe, the House, too.
Hell, I think she will become more of the problem if she wins.
Very soon now, we’re going to be hearing a lot of the “electability” word, and we damn well should.
From one fire-cur ( :o) ), to Jane and the staff here:
across a few disagreements, a heartfelt thank you for all you guys do. :o)
BTW, those seemingly innocuous-but-lethal three little paragraphs at Digby’s?
A dagger!
For what the repubs want to do, and for why they need Clinton so badly, to do it.
Way to “lead” on a no-brainer issue there, Hill…
Marcus Aurelius @ 28
Current numbers on a poll this morning at dKos:
Foreign Policy 18% 1886 votes
Constitutional Issues 18% 1843 votes
Global Warming and the Environment 13% 1388 votes
Health Care 11% 1116 votes
The “Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex” 10% 1105 votes
Human Rights/Civil Rights 6% 704 votes
The Economy, Trade and Globalization 6% 628 votes
Other 3% 350 votes
Reproductive Rights 2% 297 votes
Poverty 2% 210 votes
“Family Values” 1% 202 votes
Government Policy in the Realm of Science 1% 144 votes
Education 1% 138 votes
Freedom of Expression 1% 110 votes
total 10121 votes
moondancer @ 152
But take that a step further and who’s behind the MSM? Who runs that messaging center? Yes, that’s right… the pubbies.
I’m glad Clinton is going to oppose Mukasey, but she and her husband have a long history of jumping on the bandwagon someone else has started and then getting major attention for it as if they had been the instigator from the beginning. Mukasey, FISA immunity, using diplomacy with Iran, and the biggest one of all, global warming. She is the only “leader” I know of who always starts out as a follower.
Hillary gets my vote.
Knut Wicksell @ 125
This is not an an issue of “uninformed voters” controlling the elections. There could not have been a bigger set of “uninformed voters” in Georgia who voted in democratic primaries in the 30s for Roosevelt a patrician farmer from Dutchess County, New York. Why did Georgia democrats go for Roosevelt? Because of his message. Put aside unions, there were none to speak of in Georgia at that time.
The Clintons are vapid and have no message, never did, never will. Gore is a complete flake and Kerry was incompetent. How do you send a message? You make people feel it. That is what Dodd has been doing for the past weeks and it has nothing to do with a contrived problem of “uninformed voters.” The Clintons may win again by simply leveraging off comparisons with other similarly weak people. Look who Clinton ran against in New York for the Senate
Ms.cilton knows what she it doing and talking about people just hate
How disgusting to have this tri-angulating wretch foist upon us.And she is really good for liberals cause because BClinton did what for liberals ??
Yeah that’s right ot a damned thing.
Am I the only one who’s struck by the irony of the blogad that’s a few inches to the right of the photograph of Clinton?
The one that skewers Bush and the Republicans for spending $500 billion on clusterfuck in Iraq, while ignoring serious needs here at home?
Because, I’m thinking that with her support for the war, this is an issue that, if Hillary Clinton tries to bring it up, the GOP will fillet her for even mentioning it.
egregious @ 14
Edwards said he was against immunity. Hillary followed…again.