Good morning!

Christy!

Morning, Christy!

I’m sorry, can someone explain in words of few syllables :-) why stripping out the amnesty forces the Republicans to offer it as an amendment? Do you mean the telco amnesty itself would have to come up as an individual (and therefore very visible) bill in order to be enacted?

Will do, Christy, although I think they are ignoring us.

In light of events of the past two-three weeks or so, it appears that Congress is in gridlock until January 2009.

(Still, I will make the calls.)

…okay on rereading it, I see that a one syllable word confused me — the “it” is to amnesty, not to the bill: “Having this bill come to the floor without amnesty in it would force the Republicans to offer it as an amendment […]”

Dur. Need more coffee, kthx.

And the second panel will include the following (from The Legal Times blog): Edward Black, president and CEO of the Computer & Communications Industry Association; Patrick Philbin, partner at Kirkland & Ellis and former DOJ deputy assistant attorney general for national security; and Morton Halperin, director of U.S. advocacy at the Open Society Institute.

Are we talking about the same Philbin here?

EPU’d from last thread:

Biodun @ 84

OT–

Heckuva job:

FEMA director of external affairs John P. “Pat” Philbin is really, really sorry that he participated in last week’s fake FEMA press conference. “It was absolutely a bad decision. I regret it happened. Certainly … I should have stopped it,” Philbin tells the Washington Post. “I hope readers understand we’re working very hard to establish credibility and integrity, and I would hope this does not undermine it.”

(snip)

So, was Philbin fired?

Well, not exactly.

He has been appointed to serve as the new public affairs chief for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, a place where fake news isn’t anything new.

Biodun at 5 — Anyone who paid attention to the numbers knew this was likely going in to the 2006 election. (Which is exactly why we worked so hard to boot Lieberman — nothing like a whining turncoat as your bote lynchpin in the Senate. Blergh.) But on this issue, we can make an enormous dent in committee if we can muster the votes.

It’s a tenuous “if,” considering DiFi is one of the Dem votes. But we have to try — it’s our duty to do so. And they are listening, they may disregard the information after hearing it, but believe me, I’m hearing back from them that they are getting a lot of calls. So they are definitely paying attention to that…here’s hoping they learn from it, too.

Biodun @ 7

And the second panel will include the following (from The Legal Times blog): Edward Black, president and CEO of the Computer & Communications Industry Association; Patrick Philbin, partner at Kirkland & Ellis and former DOJ deputy assistant attorney general for national security; and Morton Halperin, director of U.S. advocacy at the Open Society Institute.

Are we talking about the same Philbin here?

EPU’d from last thread:

Biodun @ 84

OT–

Heckuva job:

No – we’re talking about this Philbin.

Morning Christy, wish our voices had the same impact as the campaign donations of the telecoms.

CHS-
Speaking of Lieberman, EPU’d from last thread:

OT, but fascinating.

Did y’all know that Lieberman’s political predecessor, i.e., a prior Independent Democrat, was Lyndon LaRouche? Find out all about it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG6MUBAkFQg
and here http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..klein.html
It would make a fun post for a slow day, dontcha think?

Helen — Oooh, dammit, I meant to link up Marcy’s excellent analysis in this post and forgot to put those links in…thanks for the reminder.

When Harry ignored Dodd’s hold; that revealed Reid’s real political beliefs. He could have held the bill, thrown up his hands and blamed it on Dodd. There is a reason why Reid is 37/50 Dems life-time progressive voting record.

link

Morning Christy! and thanks.

I dreamed those brats grew up, and we didn’t need to pester them daily any more. Silly me.

Here goes….

Helen @ 9:

Thanks!

A question.

I read Marcy’s various posts (this one links them all) about what is going on with the FISA haggling and Whitehouse working on minimization. There seems to be a thrust to get oversight delegated to the FISA court rather than the AG—which in this admin. is understandable. My question/concern is that with the reich wing CJ of SCOTUS, Roberts making the appointments to the FISA courts, aren’t we screwed every which way? Or am I missing something here?

uber-busy Beltway brahmins

Kewl! That’s über…

damn! i’m gonna call reid twice!

from cboldt, commenting at TNH:

Meanwhile, Rockefeller’s S.2248 – FISA amendments, has been placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 453.

RevDeb @ 16

A question.

I read Marcy’s various posts (this one links them all) about what is going on with the FISA haggling and Whitehouse working on minimization. There seems to be a thrust to get oversight delegated to the FISA court rather than the AG—which in this admin. is understandable. My question/concern is that with the reich wing CJ of SCOTUS, Roberts making the appointments to the FISA courts, aren’t we screwed every which way? Or am I missing something here?

in my ignorant opinion – there is no easy fix to this. but that doesn’t mean there won’t ever be a fix… it’s just gonna be a long haul, and step one is to try to keep things from getting worse.

btw, the pic of the 2 slippy-sliders above is perfect. Says it all.

Fine. Let’s go hand them some spine.

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

Morning, Miss Christy. (Totally OT “morning courtesy greeting” to follow)Hope you, the Peanut and Mr. Reddhead all had a lovely weekend. This morning at my house, it was 25 degrees, with ice on the deck (forget the frost on the ‘punkin’ folks).
Having which said, we annoying “advocates” have our work cut out for us this week. *g*

Dang it. Meant to link up several excellent pieces that EmptyWheel has done on these issues of late,and forgot to include them above. Mea culpa…but here they are. Do read these:

– On Patrick Philbin, who will be testifying on Wednesday.
– The Dodge On Retroactive Immunity.
– WH Minimization efforts.
– Spying on Americans Overseas with no oversight or warrant.
– Shorter SSCI: they’re full of crap.
– Using the AUMF as justification for pretty much everything.

Speaking of Marcy:

Twin Cities FDLers:

According to John Forde (another MN FDLer, and that’s also his handle) in an email to me, Marcy will be at Macalester College in St. Paul on November 3. I’ll try to make it. And rumor has it that Phoenix Woman might also make it. Soem of us have been “dying” to meet PW…*g*

Adie @ 20

btw, the pic of the 2 slippy-sliders above is perfect. Says it all.

Fine. Let’s go hand them some spine.

Spineocrat

selise @ 19

RevDeb @ 16

A question.

I read Marcy’s various posts (this one links them all) about what is going on with the FISA haggling and Whitehouse working on minimization. There seems to be a thrust to get oversight delegated to the FISA court rather than the AG—which in this admin. is understandable. My question/concern is that with the reich wing CJ of SCOTUS, Roberts making the appointments to the FISA courts, aren’t we screwed every which way? Or am I missing something here?

in my ignorant opinion – there is no easy fix to this. but that doesn’t mean there won’t ever be a fix… it’s just gonna be a long haul, and step one is to try to keep things from getting worse.

John Roberts is in it for the long haul which is what worries me. Of all the options so far it seems like letting the gawdawful FISA tune-up sunset and revert back to the original in Feb. seems the safest. I’m probably way off base on this, but I haven’t read anything yet that makes any more sense.

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

We did quite a few things that went against the Constitution during those times: Japanese internment, Communist witch hunts, Nazi witch hunts. None of those actions actually helped defeat those enemies, but it should not be forgotten that we did infringe on many peoples liberties during those times.

RevDeb @ 26

John Roberts is in it for the long haul which is what worries me. Of all the options so far it seems like letting the gawdawful FISA tune-up sunset and revert back to the original in Feb. seems the safest. I’m probably way off base on this, but I haven’t read anything yet that makes any more sense.

i completely agree with you. the house’s “restore act” was a piece of sh*t also. holt’s pretty decent bill got no attention or support that i know of (save the aclu for a time)

my guess is that people who understand the politics of things things (that would not be me), think that, politically the amnesty battle make the most sense to fight.

Some of us have been “dying”…

Deb at 16 — The judges who do FISA court work take it very seriously, and have had long-term involvement with national security matters. Reggie Walton is a prime example. The ones that I know of that are doing FISA work at the moment aren’t the sort who would try to politically game the system.

There are some extraordinary people who sit on the Federal bench — both Dems and Reps — who take their oath to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law very seriously. And we should not make the mistake of impugning them with the warped Bush Administration viewpoint. Truly. Unless and until we see a track record of problems with a particular judge or career employee, they deserve a whole lot of thanks for doing a job that is extraordinarily difficult under very high pressure from all sides these days.

Tancredo says he’s leaving Congress

“I’m telling you, it just wears on you just generally, physically, everything,” he said. “I just don’t know whether I’ll have the strength, the fire burning still.”

Rise and shine!

JF @ 27

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

We did quite a few things that went against the Constitution during those times: Japanese internment, Communist witch hunts, Nazi witch hunts. None of those actions actually helped defeat those enemies, but it should not be forgotten that we did infringe on amny peoples liberties during those times.

True, and a good point, but, except for the Japanese-American internment, the center pretty much held.

btw, gang, if you hear back from offices on particular stances, please let us know in the comments. Thanks much!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 30

Deb at 16 — The judges who do FISA court work take it very seriously, and have had long-term involvement with national security matters. Reggie Walton is a prime example. The ones that I know of that are doing FISA work at the moment aren’t the sort who would try to politically game the system.

There are some extraordinary people who sit on the Federal bench — both Dems and Reps — who take their oath to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law very seriously. And we should not make the mistake of impugning them with the warped Bush Administration viewpoint. Truly. Unless and until we see a track record of problems with a particular judge or career employee, they deserve a whole lot of thanks for doing a job that is extraordinarily difficult under very high pressure from all sides these days.

Thanks Christy. My faith in the Judicial system has eroded considerably during the past 7 years, for obvious reasons. We have yet to see to what degree the infiltration of the Federalist drones will infect the system. The sooner we can put a lid on the damage Darth and his minions are doing, the better.

I have to keep remembering

“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”

May it be so. And we will all do our best to help it along.

neokneme @ 31

Tancredo says he’s leaving Congress

“I’m telling you, it just wears on you just generally, physically, everything,” he said. “I just don’t know whether I’ll have the strength, the fire burning still.”

Rise and shine!

Tancredo’s plunder silo must be full.

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

Because Reid is spineless. I wish I knew why exactly he is a Democrat. And why exactly he seems to have jelly for a spine.

It just occurred to me (yes, I’m slow sometimes)that many of the players now pushing to essentially gut FISA are from the very same administration who’s violations of wiretapping laws in the 70’s were the motivation for creating the FISA court in the first place. Of course we should trust them. Nixon’s shadow is amazingly long.

Called Di Fi’s DC office and told woman staffer I want to strongly urge the Senator to vote against telecom amnesty in the FISA bill.

Staffer said: “She hasn’t released an official statement yet on how she’s going to vote on telecom amnesty in the FISA bill. But I’ll be glad to pass along your comments to her. Can I have your zipcode please?”

Badwater @ 35

neokneme @ 31

Tancredo says he’s leaving Congress

Rise and shine!

Tancredo’s plunder silo must be full.

will he write a book, get hired by FOX, or go to work for Blackwater’s border patrol company? I suppose he could even work for a “think” tank

old gold @ 32

JF @ 27

We did quite a few things that went against the Constitution during those times: Japanese internment, Communist witch hunts, Nazi witch hunts. None of those actions actually helped defeat those enemies, but it should not be forgotten that we did infringe on amny peoples liberties during those times.

True, and a good point, but, except for the Japanese-American internment, the center pretty much held.

I think the center is still out there today. I just think, sadly, it is practicing self-censorship. This past week I talked with a bi-partisan group of citizens who are pro rule of law. Everyone in this group expressed they would rather die free with rights than die under the threat of fear and the denial of rights and liberty. But when asked to join in a group effort to address this concern with area congressional leaders, the group went silent and appeared uneasy. This alone should be tragic in anyone’s eyes. The last time I experienced “self-censorship” by the people happened in the Soviet Union and neighboring countries back in the 80’s.

Right now, many need to be encouraged to have courage to stand up and have their voice counted and to stand up to any vocal bullying from a conservative counter-part. We need to continue to push the point of rule of law in numbers, together. It breaks the silence of self-censorship.

Playing catchup. Dodd’s email says four down six to go in regards to the committee.
Good: Biden *cough*, Kennedy, Cardin, Feingold.
Whattheheyhey: Kohl, Leahy, Whitehouse, Schumer, Durbin, Feinstein.
The rest: it figures.

BTW, Christy:

Very small typo if you can fix it:

Joe Biden–Delaware…

The stuff of nightmares:

“The only thing that matters is that we get a deal.”

KLynn at 40 — I see that a lot when talking with folks who are not politically active. People come up to me and say that it is a wonderful thing that I push rule of law issues, and when we start to talk about things they could do to help it along…suddenly, the topic changes. It’s eerie, although falls along that curve of being involved with organizations where 20 percent of the Board of Directors does 80 percent of the actual work for any group in which I’ve been involved.

I wonder if that correlates across the spectrum of issues? If so, it would explain a LOT…

Biodun @ 5

In light of events of the past two-three weeks or so, it appears that Congress is in gridlock until January 2009.

(Still, I will make the calls.)

I don’t necessarily think that the Congress is in gridlock until 2009. I think gridlock would be preferable to what we have, which is capitulation to the President’s wishes. Congress is passing stuff; they’re just passing whatever the President tells them to, and not passing what he says no to. I can’t think of one they’ve won yet.

OT..

Dodd Opposes Mukasey Nomination

TPM

Looks like the ACLU has a petition to support Dodd. At moments like this I wonder what HoJoe is thinking of his old friend Dodd. Heh. Not that it matters, but it a petition to support Dodd from a constituent to HoJoe, well. Heh.

Steve-AR @ 46

OT..

Dodd Opposes Mukasey Nomination

TPM

wooHoo!

Called Schumer’s DC office and talked to woman staffer. She said more or less the same thing as DiFi staffer (in my 38) and took my zipcode.

Schumer: WTF?

Big Harry: “The only thing that matters is that we get a deal.”

Mommy to Little Harry: “Every single time you make something in the potty it’s a good thing.”

And let’s not forget the US atty/political prosecution scandal before it gets swept under the rug. I almost vomited when I heard a pundit say there was little appetite for holding harriet in contempt. Why the hell not?

dov at 50 — Well, there was a mental image I could have done without this morning…blergh…

This is the reason these pencil-dicks no longer get any campaign donations from me.

TBoy

Christy Hardin Smith @ 44

KLynn at 40 — I see that a lot when talking with folks who are not politically active. People come up to me and say that it is a wonderful thing that I push rule of law issues, and when we start to talk about things they could do to help it along…suddenly, the topic changes. It’s eerie, although falls along that curve of being involved with organizations where 20 percent of the Board of Directors does 80 percent of the actual work for any group in which I’ve been involved.
I wonder if that correlates across the spectrum of issues? If so, it would explain a LOT…

I think it depends on your organizational model and how personal the organization can make one’s involvement.

Example: I headed a non-profit in DC years ago. The organization networked resources to many DC non-government neighborhood outreaches as well as the schools. We had a board of 14. However, we had hundreds of committed volunteers on a weekly and daily basis. So our stats went the other way 80% by volunteers, 20% board.

I really think the issue is self-senosrship. Honestly, how many people want their families to be the next Graeme Frost? Fear is evil. Keep on bring the light to it Christy!

selise @ 18

damn! i’m gonna call reid twice!

from cboldt, commenting at TNH:

Meanwhile, Rockefeller’s S.2248 – FISA amendments, has been placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 453.

called senator reid’s office on this -

at first i was told that the bill was not on the calendar and it was going first to the senate judiciary committee. i replied that that is not what’s in thomas. luckily i got a nice person who answered the phone and he was willing to look the bill up.

he then said, “you are, in fact, correct.”

i asked why that was done (if i was a suspicious, cynical person it would look like there was an attempt to bypass the sjc)… he said he did not know. asked me if i could wait while he investigated further.

bottom line – i was told that this wasn’t done by reid’s office, in fact they knew nothing about it and i’d have to ask the senate intelligence committee, since it looked like they were handling this one.

i called the intelligence committee, but there was no one available who could answer my question – apparently they’re in a meeting. i left a voice mail and will call back after 12.

i have no idea if the information above is true… only that it is what i was told.

back to calling…

Diane @ 10

Morning Christy, wish our voices had the same impact as the campaign donations of the telecoms.

Unfortunately, the most valuable thing that we can give them is our votes, and they think they have those regardless of what they do, because the alternative is so much worse. But that money speaks louder to most of the Congresscritters, and I think they rationalize that without that money, they wouldn’t even have our votes. It’s a sort of Catch 22.

Neville Chamberlain.

that’s who harry reid and nancy pelosi and fine-stine remind me of……..Neville Chamberlain

appeasement is more important then morality, appeasing Georgie boy is more important then stopping unconstitutional behavior.

Chamberlain became Prime Minister in 1937, here we are 70 years later repeating the same situation except this time the coming conflict is within the country rather then somewhere else like the IFAW people want us to believe.

Biodun @ 49

Called Schumer’s DC office and talked to woman staffer. She said more or less the same thing as DiFi staffer (in my 38) and took my zipcode.

Schumer: WTF?

What stinks is that some of the stupidest Senators are in the biggest states, so it would cost a ton to primary them.

Biodun @ 49

Called Schumer’s DC office and talked to woman staffer. She said more or less the same thing as DiFi staffer (in my 38) and took my zipcode.

Schumer: WTF?

Schumer’s office was taking a telecom immunity tally when I called.

Apparently Schumer doesn’t give a shit about the Constitution unless a sufficient number of his constituents call him about it.

What a loathsome attitude.

selise @ 54:

LOL! Those guys really don’t know which end is up…

OT from CNN, Peter King’s Monday Morning Quarterback from SI.com.

Security line, Newark Liberty International Airport, 12:13 p.m., Saturday: I reach the front of the line, hand the security guard my New Jersey (New Jersey, mind you) driver’s license with my boarding pass. He inspects it, looks me over, then looks back at the ID.

“You Peter King, the congressman from Long Island?” he says.

“No,” I say.

He looks at me, hard, not believing me, and hands back both items. A congressman from New York with a New Jersey ID, in jeans and sneakers with a blue backpack. Hmmmm. That’s one perceptive security guy.

Our government under Little Boots.

aye @ 58

Biodun @ 49

Called Schumer’s DC office and talked to woman staffer. She said more or less the same thing as DiFi staffer (in my 38) and took my zipcode.

Schumer: WTF?

Schumer’s office was taking a telecom immunity tally when I called.

Apparently Schumer doesn’t give a shit about the Constitution unless a sufficient number of his constituents call him about it.

What a loathsome attitude.

And what about Whitehouse? It’d be nice if a 1000 constituents lit a fire nicely under his arse, so to speak.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 51

dov at 50 — Well, there was a mental image I could have done without this morning…blergh…

Sorry, Christy. I need to refocus now too: Think: fresh strawberries, wheat fields, the surf on the Pacific coast…

the only thing that matters is that we get a deal

Okay, Harry, I’ll offer you a deal:
ou do the job you’re supposed to be doing, which is Senator from Nevada and Senate Majority Leader (that’s the official leader of the Democrats in the senate, bi-partisanship not required or requested), and we won’t try to get you charged with accepting bribes, or whatever it is that they bought your co-operation with. Then you retire rather than run for another term.

Called Sheldon Whitehouse’s DC office. Woman staffer (are most staffers women?) told me exactly the same thing as the other staffers, and then added that they’re taking a tally and asked for my zipcode. (Did they get together on talking points?)

Whitehouse: again, WTF?

DFA is doing their straw poll. I was quite surprised to vote and find that Chris Dodd is 9th! Anybody want to send a little mojo his way?

No deal needs to be reached on FISA. If no deal is reached, the atrocity masquerading as legislation the ‘leadersheep’ were conned into approving in August merely expires. In its place returns the old FISA which was working just fine. Any major tweaks can wait until after W et al leave office. There is no need for a deal, certainly not one that this President will accept. To him the Constitution is unacceptable.

Christy, O/T. I have had an idea for a long time. For progressive blogs to tell “true” stories of courage no matter what the political affiliation of the individual.

Conservative blogs are so good at ripping to shreds any citizen without fact checking. Let’s do our fact checking and bring a personal profile on a issue each week and build up the honor of one’s efforts, strength, endurance.

If the conservative blogs want to “hatchet” the profile let them. It will look bad each week, ripping “joe or jane” citizen to shreds.

The people will see it for what it is and real, justice based, decent people anger builds the masses…

One would think we’ve had enough. But “the straw” to break the people’s back is still out there to break. The faster, the better the change for rule of law’s sake. Sounds crazy but…

Biodun @ 58

selise @ 54:

LOL! Those guys really don’t know which end is up…

sadly, i am a cynical enough to think that indeed someone does know which end is up… looks to me like an effort to bypass the sjc.

here’s what general order means:

This is a list of all Senate and House measures placed on the Senate’s Legislative Calendar, pursuant to Senate Rule VIII, under “General Orders”, sequenced by order number and eligible for Senate floor consideration

my bold.

please, someone, tell me i have this wrong.

My take on all of this that the Dems in question who are waffling are all on the Rahm Emanuel/political consultant bus.

The way that the Dems are fighting over SCHIP as opposed to the manner in which they are handling this issue is telling. They have decided to cede any “national security” issue to the GOP.

This whole business about not having a spine is quite inaccurate, IMHO. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi know damn well what they are doing, and they have paid good money to their consultants to come up with a strategy.

The influence of political consultants and the “Village” on both sides of the aisle is just as big of a problem in implementing real change in the direction of this country.

Biodun @ 65

Called Sheldon Whitehouse’s DC office. Woman staffer (are most staffers women?) told me exactly the same thing as the other staffers, and then added that they’re taking a tally and asked for my zipcode. (Did they get together on talking points?)

Whitehouse: again, WTF?

Don’t blame this on the staffers. This is exactly what they are supposed to do, take down information.

DBaker @ 68

My take on all of this that the Dems in question who are waffling are all on the Rahm Emanuel/political consultant bus.

The way that the Dems are fighting over SCHIP as opposed to the manner in which they are handling this issue is telling. They have decided to cede any “national security” issue to the GOP.

This whole business about not having a spine is quite inaccurate, IMHO. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi know damn well what they are doing, and they have paid good money to their consultants to come up with a strategy.

The influence of political consultants and the “Village” on both sides of the aisle is just as big of a problem in implementing real change in the direction of this country.

Until you have a million peacrful protesters in each capital city in our nation… I can dream can’t I?

To-do list:

1) Senate Dems fold, smack Neville Chamberlain.

Selise — I have a query into a couple of staffers on that as well. Thanks for spotting it — will let you know if and when I get an answer. It may be a procedural issue, and not substantive, I’m told, but I want an answer for sure and not just a “maybe.” Hopefully will hear back some time this morning…

OT..But an interesting read..Data vs out of thin air opinion. Presidential candidate and the Bankruptcy legislation..spoiler, Dodd has best record.

The Bankruptcy Bill: Democratic Presidential Candidates Edition

by eriposte

link

selise @ 69:

I checked the Senate calendar and schedule. FISA is not on the schedule–or is it simply not up yet?

Christy, will it matter to the Senators on the SJC if we call from Canada and other countries ?

Reviewing the comments on this thread and the coordinated answers from all of the Senator’s offices who are waffling tells me I have it exactly right, i.e. they know damn well what they are doing.

They are hoping to take the issue “off the table” because their political consultants have told them that they need to cede “national security” issues to the GOP.

DBaker @ 76

Reviewing the comments on this thread and the coordinated answers from all of the Senator’s offices who are waffling tells me I have it exactly right, i.e. they know damn well what they are doing.

They are hoping to take the issue “off the table” because their political consultants have told them that they need to cede “national security” issues to the GOP.

So why? Is there some blackmail threat standing in the wings?

DBaker at 77 — All the more important to let them know that it isn’t off the table, eh?

egregious @ 71:

Don’t blame this on the staffers.

I’m most certainly not doing that. I’m talking about the Senators.

dakine01 @ 60

OT from CNN, Peter King’s Monday Morning Quarterback from SI.com.

Security line, Newark Liberty International Airport, 12:13 p.m., Saturday: I reach the front of the line, hand the security guard my New Jersey (New Jersey, mind you) driver’s license with my boarding pass. He inspects it, looks me over, then looks back at the ID.

“You Peter King, the congressman from Long Island?” he says.

“No,” I say.

He looks at me, hard, not believing me, and hands back both items. A congressman from New York with a New Jersey ID, in jeans and sneakers with a blue backpack. Hmmmm. That’s one perceptive security guy.

Our government under Little Boots.

Dude must not be a sports fan, and specifically a football fan. Or a Sports Illustrated reader.

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

That is the truly $64,000,000 question, and the one that should be used by every Dem campaign for election for any office greater than dog catcher!

Selise — Just got an answer back from legal counsel in one of the leadership offices:

“Under Senate rules it goes from Intell to the Senate calendar, and will then be sequentially referred to Judiciary Committee prior to the Judiciary markup. “

Asked to clarify and basically what this means is that it’s just a procedural pass through on the record from Intel to Judiciary. It’s not a substantive maneuver, only a written record of the passing of the bill from Intel to the floor and then it will go out again to Judiciary from there. Does that help?

Will let you know if I hear anything different from any of my other queries…

@KLynn

That is the only way we are going to invoke change, that is that enough people show that they care that change is inevitable. Right now not enough people are aware of what is going on or they are too busy trying to live their daily lives. (from talking to non-active apolitical people the latter is much more true than we like to think). (corrected to say “a”political)

Christy Hardin Smith @ 72

Selise — I have a query into a couple of staffers on that as well. Thanks for spotting it — will let you know if and when I get an answer. It may be a procedural issue, and not substantive, I’m told, but I want an answer for sure and not just a “maybe.” Hopefully will hear back some time this morning…

thanks christy! you’re more likely to get a straight answer (and be able to understand it)… and i cross posted my comment at tnh so that cboldt would see it.

back to the phone!

strait is the gate…

he doesn’t shoot straight… *g*

Biodun @ 87

strait is the gate…

he doesn’t shoot straight… *g*

maybe it’s George Strait!

DBaker @ 83

@KLynn

That is the only way we are going to invoke change, that is that enough people show that they care that change is inevitable. Right now not enough people are aware of what is going on or they are too busy trying to live their daily lives. (from talking to non-active political people the latter is much more true than we like to think).

Totally agree. Most people I talk to tell me they no longer listen to news or read news because it is so negative that they feel paralyzed and that their lack of knowledge=happiness and/or just an ability to function. It’s a fine time to rip rights away because the people are emotionally drained. That’s why I was suggesting “telling narratives” above. True stories tend to bring people to the table a bit easier.

Biodun @ 74

selise @ 69:

I checked the Senate calendar and schedule. FISA is not on the schedule–or is it simply not up yet?

i think general order means that it can now be brought up for consideration on the floor – it doesn’t have to be voted out of the sjc.

scroll down to 453: Senate Calendar Online via GPO Access

don’t let this stop you from calling everyone on the sjc – just call reid’s office too!

Biodun @ 7

And the second panel will include the following (from The Legal Times blog): Edward Black, president and CEO of the Computer & Communications Industry Association; Patrick Philbin, partner at Kirkland & Ellis and former DOJ deputy assistant attorney general for national security; and Morton Halperin, director of U.S. advocacy at the Open Society Institute.

Are we talking about the same Philbin here?

EPU’d from last thread:

Biodun @ 84

OT–

Heckuva job:

No different guys. John P. “Pat” Philbin (FEMA mouthpiece) vs. Patrick F. Philbin (DOJ/FBI).

selise — I got an answer. See my comment above — it’s procedural, and not substantive.

OT–(in-between calls):

Here’s Tony Snow talking to People’s Larry Hackett:

Hackett: “Who was the best White House reporter?”
Snow: “I’m not going to do that.”

On the media’s political leanings:

Snow: “The Washington press corps is the most reliable Democratic voting bloc.”

Hackett: “Is the Democratic race over?”
Snow [immediately]: “Yes.”
Hackett: “Why?”
Snow: “Because it is.”

selise @ 86

Christy Hardin Smith @ 72

Selise — I have a query into a couple of staffers on that as well. Thanks for spotting it — will let you know if and when I get an answer. It may be a procedural issue, and not substantive, I’m told, but I want an answer for sure and not just a “maybe.” Hopefully will hear back some time this morning…

thanks christy! you’re more likely to get a straight answer (and be able to understand it)… and i cross posted my comment at tnh so that cboldt would see it.

back to the phone!

Still, procedure, rules, I have to hand it to you Selise. I love your research.

Signed the petition. Dodd Rocks! I don’t believe I could have typed that with a strai(gh)t face three weeks ago.

I’ll be spending a lot more time at the ex-Rep. Vic Kohring GOP oil tax scam Federal trial this week than last. Thanks to Christy, Jane, Marcy, Jeralyn, Pach and all for inspiring me on this. Another blogger at the trial, Steve Aufrecht, is a big fan of Marcy’s work – as am I. We’re hoping to get her and Mr. emptywheel up to Alaska next summer…

KLynn @ 89

DBaker @ 83

@KLynn

That is the only way we are going to invoke change, that is that enough people show that they care that change is inevitable. Right now not enough people are aware of what is going on or they are too busy trying to live their daily lives. (from talking to non-active political people the latter is much more true than we like to think).

Totally agree. Most people I talk to tell me they no longer listen to news or read news because it is so negative that they feel paralyzed and that their lack of knowledge=happiness and/or just an ability to function. It’s a fine time to rip rights away because the people are emotionally drained. That’s why I was suggesting “telling narratives” above. True stories tend to bring people to the table a bit easier.

I suggest you read Joe Conason’s It can happen here, for example, if you already haven’t, about the apathy that has crept in to our society, which can lead to fascism. Paul Krugman was on the Young Turks this morning discussing this very thing, i.e. that the movement conservatives, who are so radical have taken over our entire discourse and that the establishment refuses to accept this.

That is why Krugman is so furiously attacked, mostly by proxy.

Please forgive another OT, Porter Wagoner RIP

KLynn and DBaker:

It’s called apathy, apathy… (sigh sigh)

RevDeb @ 66

Done! (And told them that he’s my #1 because he supports the Constitution.)

Christy Hardin Smith @ 90

selise — I got an answer. See my comment above — it’s procedural, and not substantive.

please excuse my ignorance.

are you saying that the bill can not be brought to the floor without sjc reporting it out?

P J Evans @ 98

RevDeb @ 66

Done! (And told them that he’s my #1 because he supports the Constitution.)

That seems to be a fairly common reason.

On a similar note, we also need to give our senators encouragement on Mukasey.. especially now that it looks like there may be a shot in the dark at denying him confirmation. We don’t need another ‘yes’ man on FISA at DOJ, regardless of which way the FISA bill goes. I’m glad that Levin et al have put down a bright line test on torture, but that’s not enough. Mukasey also has to come out on the side of legality with respect to government spying and phone-tapping.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 36

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

Because Reid is spineless. I wish I knew why exactly he is a Democrat. And why exactly he seems to have jelly for a spine.

I just wish I knew why he was voted Majority Leader. He doesn’t appear to be good at it.

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

I think that it’s interesting that none of the Constitutional protections were voided by Madison even when Washington DC and theb White House was going up in flames. The British invaded! There was no vast effort to open the mails, arrest possible collaborators with warrant and hold them incommunicado and torture them?

Ditto when the Whisky and Shays Rebellions were going on! These were major uprisings, causing the country to teeter on the brink. Still individual liberties were preserved…quite INTENTIONALLY…in the Bill of Rights.

The founders weren’t namby-pambys…and they weren’t going to give up their hard wrought freedoms simply because of some people insisting that “we need a King”…or “the Constitution isn’t a suicide pact”. For them throwing away the Constitution was the suicide pact…since they realized that they would be creating a system of government that would mirror the despotism that they had escaped from.

OT, but fairly important – just in:

The Supreme Court agreed Monday to rule on the legality of the $2.5 billion punitive damages award against Exxon Mobil and its shipping subsidiary for the massive oil spill in Alaska’s Prince William Sound in 1989. The court limited its review to issues involving maritime law, declining to hear a claim that the verdict was excessive under the Constitution’s Due Process Clause. The Court also refused to hear a cross-appeal, seeking to reinstate a $5 billion damages award. The case is Exxon Shipping Co. and Exxon Mobil Corp. v. Baker, 07-219. Oral arguments will be held in early 2008 and a decision will be released by July, 2008.

dakine01 @ 101

P J Evans @ 98

RevDeb @ 66

Done! (And told them that he’s my #1 because he supports the Constitution.)

That seems to be a fairly common reason.

This is my impression of HRC and Obama. Of course I didn’t paste a link in the little text box they had.

DBaker @ 94

KLynn @ 89

Totally agree. Most people I talk to tell me they no longer listen to news or read news because it is so negative that they feel paralyzed and that their lack of knowledge=happiness and/or just an ability to function. It’s a fine time to rip rights away because the people are emotionally drained. That’s why I was suggesting “telling narratives” above. True stories tend to bring people to the table a bit easier.

I suggest you read Joe Conason’s It can happen here, for example, if you already haven’t, about the apathy that has crept in to our society, which can lead to fascism. Paul Krugman was on the Young Turks this morning discussing this very thing, i.e. that the movement conservatives, who are so radical have taken over our entire discourse and that the establishment refuses to accept this.

That is why Krugman is so furiously attacked, mostly by proxy.

Thanks for the heads up. That’s why I am suggesting we take the discourse back. We can do that without using the fear tact while breaking down self-sensorship. When talking to people about SCHIP, I found out everyone , no matter what party, was disgusted by what happened to Graeme. More of this disgust, can bring positive change. Sounds “Polly Anna” but the anger I have witnessed towards the Graeme Frost bashing by the right over something like caring for children has been a bit of a turning point in my dialogue experiences with people.

selise at 99 — Yes, because it’s now already been referred to the SJC via this procedure — at least, that’s what I’m being told. It had to go OUT of the Intel committee to the floor before it could then be moved TO the Judiciary committee. It couldn’t simultaneously be in two committees at once under Senate rules is my understanding. Now the SJC has it, they aren’t even close to doing mark-up, and the hearing on Wednesday will be a fact-finding one, not bill specific — so there may be more hearings to come prior to them taking up the bill for mark-up in committee…and then it will go to the floor from there, according to my sources.

I know more about the workings of our legislative branch now than I have ever known in my life. And at the same time, understand it less.

Biodun @ 96

KLynn and DBaker:

It’s called apathy, apathy… (sigh sigh)

Gotta disagree. It is not ALL apathy. Many individuals I talk to and bring issues to light, find themselves frustrated and angered about the issues. But then they appear paralyzed when invited to action (i.e. self-sensorship.) No doubt there is a ton of apathy out there. However, I am witnessing as much or more self-sensorship, which is even more disturbing.

solai @ 109

I know more about the workings of our legislative branch now than I have ever known in my life. And at the same time, understand it less.

This is my conclusion about a great many things in life: I still don’t know what I’m doing, but at a much higher level.

the apathy that has crept in to our society,

For some of us it isn’t apathy so much as bleak despair. It was when I sent an angry letter to my congressmen lambasting them for voting to extend the Patriot Act and saying I’d never vote for them again, and got back a letter thanking me for my support, that was the last straw. I just don’t think anything is having an effect, and I don’t know if there’s anything I can do about the horrible turn our government is taking. Many people seem to share my views, and aren’t apathetic, but can’t bear to listen. I kind of have to though, it’s like an addiction.

OT–

Meanwhile, in WaPo Shailagh Murray writes a somewhat syruppy valentine to Jim Webb:

Webb’s political appeal is based on the fact that the Marine combat veteran, acclaimed novelist and former Republican figured out how to unlock a conservative state with an antiwar populism that spoke to small-town and rural voters as well as the Democratic base. As Democrats seek to widen their majorities in Congress next year, Webb is much in demand as a fundraiser and campaigner. New Hampshire Democratic officials said he is their inspiration as they attempt to defeat Sen. John E. Sununu (R) in 2008.

(snip)

Webb, a former Pentagon official and Navy secretary, wrote novels based on his Vietnam War experiences. In the Senate, he sits on three relevant committees: Armed Services, Foreign Relations and Veterans’ Affairs. He keeps a writing office in Rosslyn that overlooks the Iwo Jima Memorial, and he often takes walks through Arlington National Cemetery, where his father is buried.

KLynn — Have you found that some of that self-censorship comes from individuals who have had to deal with a sort of wrathful arguing wingnutty attack on their opinions in the past? I’ve heard that from a couple of people who stopped speaking up because they were repeatedly yelled at by someone at their church or at the office or what have you whenever they spoke about their political views. And they were the sort of folks who were conflict averse (I actually fit into that category for the most part — I’m much more of a “find agreement and mediate the dispute” person than a “continue to yell” person, so I completely understand that perspective.)

I’m just curious if people have talked about their rationales on this with you at all — and the catalysts for them.

Okay, I called DiFi for all of the good it will do. Her aide explained why she voted in favor of Southwick to me too (after an email to me assuring that she would not vote for his confirmation). Here are the three reasons she voted for his confirmation.

1. His qualifications and character, his record, past service, and temperment during the hearings.

2. A need to quickly fill this important vacancy, an emergency.

3. A hope that with a future democratic president, the republicans will look at qualifications, temperiment, education, experience, and service.

There.

Ugly In Pink @ 110

the apathy that has crept in to our society,

For some of us it isn’t apathy so much as bleak despair. It was when I sent an angry letter to my congressmen lambasting them for voting to extend the Patriot Act and saying I’d never vote for them again, and got back a letter thanking me for my support, that was the last straw. I just don’t think anything is having an effect, and I don’t know if there’s anything I can do about the horrible turn our government is taking. Many people seem to share my views, and aren’t apathetic, but can’t bear to listen. I kind of have to though, it’s like an addiction.

Having hope that the voice of the people can bring change is a big issue. Numbers are so important in this case. Large gatherings build attention to the issue.. The more numbers, the more representatives have to wake up. It’s a historical fact and statistical as well. I’ll post a link to the stats. Otherwise, we can boot reps for not upholding their oath of office.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 108

selise at 99 — Yes, because it’s now already been referred to the SJC via this procedure — at least, that’s what I’m being told. It had to go OUT of the Intel committee to the floor before it could then be moved TO the Judiciary committee. It couldn’t simultaneously be in two committees at once under Senate rules is my understanding. Now the SJC has it, they aren’t even close to doing mark-up, and the hearing on Wednesday will be a fact-finding one, not bill specific — so there may be more hearings to come prior to them taking up the bill for mark-up in committee…and then it will go to the floor from there, according to my sources.

thank you christy!

then senate rules are different than house rules in this regard (as well as many others) – because their fisa bill went to two committees at once.

i wish i had taken a civics class at some point!

if anyone knows of another senate bill (preferable from this year) that had to go to two committees, pls let me know and i’ll look up it’s history to see if the same thing happened.

btw, since I wrote my religion post yesterday, I have been inundated with religious spam. Lovely.

KLynn @ 109

Biodun @ 96

KLynn and DBaker:

It’s called apathy, apathy… (sigh sigh)

Gotta disagree. It is not ALL apathy. Many individuals I talk to and bring issues to light, find themselves frustrated and angered about the issues. But then they appear paralyzed when invited to action (i.e. self-sensorship.) No doubt there is a ton of apathy out there. However, I am witnessing as much or more self-sensorship, which is even more disturbing.

I’m going to use myself as an example.
What did I do before the Libby trial (my “gateway drug” to FDL)? I “did my duty” and went and voted.
Did not take the time to really examine what the candidates’ positions were. Was not involved in my local party. Had never written, called, emailed or faxed any of my state or federal elected people, ever.
Did not think I really “counted” – I’m not sure why I did not think I counted, but I did not think I had anything to say, or that anyone would listen to what I had to say.
I’m still not sure that my emailing and phone calling makes a whole lot of difference – after all, my senators are Schumer and Clinton. They seem to have their own agendas going. But I do know that my calling Arcuri made a difference and I know talking to Maurice Hinchey and his local guy Dan Lamb has a) made me more informed and b) seems to help me understand why getting involved in campaigns for people who are NOT in my district is important.
But I think a LOT of people are just like me. They think that if they go to vote, that is “enough” – and that no matter what else they do, it will not change things.
Somehow, we’ve got to change that.

Loo Hoo @ 115:

Southwick’s temperament during the hearings?

Is she that vapid?

Loo Hoo. @ 115

Okay, I called DiFi for all of the good it will do. Her aide explained why she voted in favor of Southwick to me too (after an email to me assuring that she would not vote for his confirmation). Here are the three reasons she voted for his confirmation.

1. His qualifications and character, his record, past service, and temperment during the hearings.

2. A need to quickly fill this important vacancy, an emergency.

3. A hope that with a future democratic president, the republicans will look at qualifications, temperiment, education, experience, and service.

There.

gag me

Biodun at 119 — Yes. This has been another edition of…

(Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.)

p.s. when i call hatch’s office (and other Rs), i always say something like:

please vote against amnesty because i don’t want a president clinton to be able to use the telcos to spy on me.

gotta take advantage of having a clinton running for president *g*

Loo Hoo. @ 114

Okay, I called DiFi for all of the good it will do. Her aide explained why she voted in favor of Southwick to me too (after an email to me assuring that she would not vote for his confirmation). Here are the three reasons she voted for his confirmation.

1. His qualifications and character, his record, past service, and temperment during the hearings.

2. A need to quickly fill this important vacancy, an emergency.

3. A hope that with a future democratic president, the republicans will look at qualifications, temperiment, education, experience, and service.

There.

It’s a good thing I have not had lunch yet, LooHoo.
That’s nauseating.

Even the Netherlands have picked up on Podhoretz: ElBaradei hekelt VS om harde taal tegen Iran

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

I often wonder the same thing, but then I realize the answer is: Don’t fall into the trap. It’s not about SCWOT (The So-Called, “War On Terror”), it’s about the Constitution.

Naomi Wolf: The Constitution Keeps Us Safe, True Patriots Support the Constitution

The Congress critters are trying to distract us ignorant proletarians from the fact that they’re not doing their job. They are there to defend the Constitution. Period. That’s why they represent us. This terra schmerra is just a way to get us to look away long enough for them to pocket the telcos’ contributions in exchange for crumpling up the Constitution.

neokneme @ 31

Tancredo says he’s leaving Congress

“I’m telling you, it just wears on you just generally, physically, everything,” he said. “I just don’t know whether I’ll have the strength, the fire burning still.”

Rise and shine!

Thanks for the happy note!

Here’s hoping that Reid is not insinuating that “leadership” and “capitulation” have become synonymous terms.

Unfortunately reid and pelosi have both tacitly proclaimed this to the world – dangerous precedences are being set for the next criminal cabal that can take the White House by “hook or crook.”

What will it take to hold the administration accountable?

selise @ CHS:

I’m soooo glad you both are unpacking House and Senate rules just so I don’t have to…*g*

FDL is an amazing place.

RevDeb @ 66

DFA is doing their straw poll. I was quite surprised to vote and find that Chris Dodd is 9th! Anybody want to send a little mojo his way?

Is Colbert not listed because the FEC has deemed his campaign illegal?
Didn’t his running mate, Larry Craig, pick up the papers? Or was it the whole fact that a big media personality was getting contributions from Cheetos and Pampers in a quid pro quo for mentions on his show?

http://www.boingboing.net/2007…..siden.html

Ann in AZ @ 83

old gold @ 21

I would like to ask the Democratic brain trust [I love the smell of an oxymoron in the morning]: how is it we defeated the Third Riech, Imperial Japan and the Soviet Empire while maintaining our constitutional liberties, but we can’t do so in a battle against a bunch of guys without a tank, missle or a damn window to throw it out of, supposedly holed-up in a cave along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?

That is the truly $64,000,000 question, and the one that should be used by every Dem campaign for election for any office greater than dog catcher!

The problem here is that our hands were not clean during WW2. Think internment camps. The fact that they had nothing to do with our victory is another argument against ignoring the constitution. But in any case, we shouldn’t remake history.

The more numbers, the more representatives have to wake up. It’s a historical fact and statistical as well.

That’s been unarguably true in the past, but i’m losing faith that it still works. I was very heartened after the 2006 election, but then seeing the results…somehow it’s worse that the Dems are enabling all this. If it was all Republicans, there’d be more hope that things could change, y’know?

Anyway i’ll stop, i’m starting to sound like Arthur Silber. ;-)

Shorter Harry Reid: “I’m gonna send Bush the weakest fucking bill I can.”

Toby Wollin

the Libby trial (my “gateway drug” to FDL)

LOL!

Christy Hardin Smith @ 112

KLynn — Have you found that some of that self-censorship comes from individuals who have had to deal with a sort of wrathful arguing wingnutty attack on their opinions in the past? I’ve heard that from a couple of people who stopped speaking up because they were repeatedly yelled at by someone at their church or at the office or what have you whenever they spoke about their political views. And they were the sort of folks who were conflict averse (I actually fit into that category for the most part — I’m much more of a “find agreement and mediate the dispute” person than a “continue to yell” person, so I completely understand that perspective.)

I’m just curious if people have talked about their rationales on this with you at all — and the catalysts for them.

Yes, some have encountered attacks or have observed attacks. Trying to teach individuals how to deal with such attacks in confident, mature ways is effective. Having solid facts and understanding how they will be argued from the “fear tact” or the “your view shows weakness” is quite effective. This could be a great posting to do Christy. Even a weekly one on the issues at hand.

My grandmother refused to sing for Hilter. It shook him. And, her older brother cut the wires from Hilter’s microphone to the loud speakers. No one heard him. Her hometown remained anti-Hilter the whole war. Know fear, No fear.

egregious @ 133

Toby Wollin

the Libby trial (my “gateway drug” to FDL)

LOL!

But Egreg – it’s true…it’s so true!!!
Gotta have my fix every day.
Gotta get my first fix before breakfast when I read the latest parts of the “late night” before I go to work.
And, of course, we all know what I’m doing now.
Addicted. Addicted, I say….

1,641 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

With all the outrage and anger over the capitulation of BOTH Democratic leaders in Congress, maybe we should all take a look at what we knew goin’ in (or should have):

Nancy One-Note Pelosi:
1. Anti-choice Catholic
2. Wife of major player intrntl banker
3. Daughter of Philadelphia machine pol
One Hung Harry Reid:
1. Anti-choice Mormon
2. major connections to Las Vegas gambling
3. major supporter of Iraq invasion

Now, I would like someone to give us a review of the politics behind how each achieved leadership and who the major benefactors are for each. How did two people so removed from the main line Democratic base get elected to leadership and is there a Clinton-DLC connection to each. I think the reactionary coup against the Democratic Party happened in 1994 and was conceived by William Jefferson Clinton to cover capitulation to fascist goals set in 1980 of dismantling welfare, lifting trade regulations (NAFTA) and eliminating organized labor political power.

The effect was to place DLC corporatists in positions of institutional power in the party apparatus and establish A*P*C and corporate money as the engine of the party.

I think that the battle for progressive control of the Democratic Party and expansion of Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress are more important than electing a Democrat to the White House. In fact, I think that Mrs. Clinton in the White House would be the ONLY thing that could circumscribe growth of progressive majorities in Congress (see the election of 1994).

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, SOME FASCISTS WERE RED JUMPERS!!

selise @ 117

Christy Hardin Smith @ 108

selise at 99 — Yes, because it’s now already been referred to the SJC via this procedure — at least, that’s what I’m being told. It had to go OUT of the Intel committee to the floor before it could then be moved TO the Judiciary committee. It couldn’t simultaneously be in two committees at once under Senate rules is my understanding. Now the SJC has it, they aren’t even close to doing mark-up, and the hearing on Wednesday will be a fact-finding one, not bill specific — so there may be more hearings to come prior to them taking up the bill for mark-up in committee…and then it will go to the floor from there, according to my sources.

thank you christy!

then senate rules are different than house rules in this regard (as well as many others) – because their fisa bill went to two committees at once.

i wish i had taken a civics class at some point!

if anyone knows of another senate bill (preferable from this year) that had to go to two committees, pls let me know and i’ll look up it’s history to see if the same thing happened.

Hi Selise,

It also looks to me as though anything introduced in this way is subject to unanimous consent so if this is subterfuge, Dodd could kill it by objecting.

the calls are going quickly this morning… sounds like they are all geared up to just count them up.

another good reason to make some calls – it’s especially easy and quick this morning.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 118

btw, since I wrote my religion post yesterday, I have been inundated with religious spam. Lovely.

Not from me!

I missed the thread again—I always seem to miss the religion/politics threads—as I was doing a memorial service. In the new congregation I’m trying to figure out how to clue people in carefully and keep my identity here separate. I think I’ve found the 2 “conservatives” but many more are just uninformed. And these are hard core liberals for the most part.

Biodun @ 120

Loo Hoo @ 115:

Southwick’s temperament during the hearings?

Is she that vapid?

it would seem so.

KLynn @135 says: Know fear, No fear.

_________

Brilliant ! There is a reason why Truth wins … because it is just !

Keep doing this and urge your friends to jump on board … truth is on your side and with perseverance, victory will be yours.

I have e- mailed some Senators, urging them to deny any further compromise to the Constitution
and chiding them for neglecting their oath to defend it. Hope this helps.

We defeated imperialism (World War I), and nazism and facism (World War II), and communism (World War III) with our Constitutional liberties intact because those were “good wars.”

Is World War IV a good war? Not so much.

(/snark)

realworld @ 136

It also looks to me as though anything introduced in this way is subject to unanimous consent so if this is subterfuge, Dodd could kill it by objecting.

but that’s our next fall back position of the sjc votes it out… we don’t want to give up the chance to kill it in committee. and especially don’t want to give up the chance to strip out the worst of the bill before it hits the senate floor.

realworld @ 131

Ann in AZ @ 83

That is the truly $64,000,000 question, and the one that should be used by every Dem campaign for election for any office greater than dog catcher!

The problem here is that our hands were not clean during WW2. Think internment camps. The fact that they had nothing to do with our victory is another argument against ignoring the constitution. But in any case, we shouldn’t remake history.

As I mentioned above, it is true our Constitution in times of peril has been assaulted. And, of course, the Japanese-American internment and the McCarthy smears were ugly chapters in our Constituional history, BUT the center held and eventually
the ship of state was righted [lefted?] and our Constitutional rights were maintained.

Loo Hoo. @ 115

Okay, I called DiFi for all of the good it will do. Her aide explained why she voted in favor of Southwick to me too (after an email to me assuring that she would not vote for his confirmation). Here are the three reasons she voted for his confirmation.

1. His qualifications and character, his record, past service, and temperment during the hearings.

2. A need to quickly fill this important vacancy, an emergency.

3. A hope that with a future democratic president, the republicans will look at qualifications, temperiment, education, experience, and service.

There.

So lemme see. He was a racist hack on the bench for a long while.
He was polite and showered her seer-sucker dress with Southern charm. So she was good on it!

Especially since she HOPES that Republicans will accept racist hacks who have long term tenure, who are suck-ups…just like she does????

fascism…

RevDeb @ 65

DFA is doing their straw poll. I was quite surprised to vote and find that Chris Dodd is 9th! Anybody want to send a little mojo his way?

I noted that Al Gore, a write in candidate, was first! He had captured more votes than any other candidate. Next came Kucinich then Obama then Edwards. Hillary Clinton got 4,371 votes as compared with Gore’s 26,436 votes. Tells me a lot!

Oh Oh . . .
Bush may recess appoint assh*le surgeon gen nominee via Think Progress

I thought that Harry and George had a gentleman’s agreement not to do any recess appointments.

But then that implies that they are gentlemen. My bad.

NorskeFlamethrower @ 137

1,641 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

With all the outrage and anger over the capitulation of BOTH Democratic leaders in Congress, maybe we should all take a look at what we knew goin’ in (or should have):

Nancy One-Note Pelosi:
1. Anti-choice Catholic
2. Wife of major player intrntl banker
3. Daughter of Philadelphia machine pol
One Hung Harry Reid:
1. Anti-choice Mormon
2. major connections to Las Vegas gambling
3. major supporter of Iraq invasion

Now, I would like someone to give us a review of the politics behind how each achieved leadership and who the major benefactors are for each. How did two people so removed from the main line Democratic base get elected to leadership and is there a Clinton-DLC connection to each. I think the reactionary coup against the Democratic Party happened in 1994 and was conceived by William Jefferson Clinton to cover capitulation to fascist goals set in 1980 of dismantling welfare, lifting trade regulations (NAFTA) and eliminating organized labor political power.

The effect was to place DLC corporatists in positions of institutional power in the party apparatus and establish A*P*C and corporate money as the engine of the party.

I think that the battle for progressive control of the Democratic Party and expansion of Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress are more important than electing a Democrat to the White House. In fact, I think that Mrs. Clinton in the White House would be the ONLY thing that could circumscribe growth of progressive majorities in Congress (see the election of 1994).

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, SOME FASCISTS WERE RED JUMPERS!!

All correct, except daughter of Baltimore MD pol.

Now that’s the way to do it:

Filed at 11:34 a.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) — France’s president abruptly ended a ”60 Minutes” interview aimed at introducing him to U.S. audiences, dubbing it ‘’stupid” and a ”big mistake” and refusing to answer questions about his wife.

Before the CBS news show interview in Paris even began, Sarkozy called his press secretary ”an imbecile” for arranging the session on a busy day.

”I don’t have the time. I have a big job to do, I have a schedule,” Sarkozy said through a translator before the interview began. In English, he added: ”Very busy. Very busy.”

punaise mon vieux: Tu es la?

NorskeFlamethrower @ 137

1,641 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

With all the outrage and anger over the capitulation of BOTH Democratic leaders in Congress, maybe we should all take a look at what we knew goin’ in (or should have):

Nancy One-Note Pelosi:
1. Anti-choice Catholic
2. Wife of major player intrntl banker
3. Daughter of Philadelphia machine pol
One Hung Harry Reid:
1. Anti-choice Mormon
2. major connections to Las Vegas gambling
3. major supporter of Iraq invasion

Now, I would like someone to give us a review of the politics behind how each achieved leadership and who the major benefactors are for each. How did two people so removed from the main line Democratic base get elected to leadership and is there a Clinton-DLC connection to each. I think the reactionary coup against the Democratic Party happened in 1994 and was conceived by William Jefferson Clinton to cover capitulation to fascist goals set in 1980 of dismantling welfare, lifting trade regulations (NAFTA) and eliminating organized labor political power.

The effect was to place DLC corporatists in positions of institutional power in the party apparatus and establish A*P*C and corporate money as the engine of the party.

I think that the battle for progressive control of the Democratic Party and expansion of Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress are more important than electing a Democrat to the White House. In fact, I think that Mrs. Clinton in the White House would be the ONLY thing that could circumscribe growth of progressive majorities in Congress (see the election of 1994).

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, SOME FASCISTS WERE RED JUMPERS!!

I find myself agreeing with you 95% of the time…and that frightens me ;)

Ann in AZ @ 148

RevDeb @ 65

DFA is doing their straw poll. I was quite surprised to vote and find that Chris Dodd is 9th! Anybody want to send a little mojo his way?

I noted that Al Gore, a write in candidate, was first! He had captured more votes than any other candidate. Next came Kucinich then Obama then Edwards. Hillary Clinton got 4,371 votes as compared with Gore’s 26,436 votes. Tells me a lot!

I hope Gore jumps in soon … the grassroots are certainly motivated to work for him.

Obama is fading fast with this McClurkin bit and Edwards would make a great Veep for Gore.

Norse,
Nancy is Pro-Choice. She’s been running on that for a long time.

RevDeb @ 26

selise @ 19

in my ignorant opinion – there is no easy fix to this. but that doesn’t mean there won’t ever be a fix… it’s just gonna be a long haul, and step one is to try to keep things from getting worse.

John Roberts is in it for the long haul which is what worries me. Of all the options so far it seems like letting the gawdawful FISA tune-up sunset and revert back to the original in Feb. seems the safest. I’m probably way off base on this, but I haven’t read anything yet that makes any more sense.

Right! I urged Reid to let the law sunset in February…don’t know why they had to bring it up now – election season later or no. Revising it again after we have a more secure majority in the Senate will be even harder.

Biodun @ 147

fascism…

About 1/4 thru Sinclair Lewis’s It Can’t Happen Here. Much better than Conason’s It Can Happen Here, because of the use of sarcasm & irony that creates the right context for the deliberate way in which politicians impose these measures on us.

Yesterday we discussed the Orange Bowl here. For you football fans, this is a must see clip:
http://WWW.youtube.com/watch?v=3QSRjFix2YE

LHP is upstairs…

Is that Rasputin I see looking over Reid’s shoulder?!!!

I’m sorry I can’t do more than pop in but wanted to say thank you to everyone who sent warm thoughts for me yesterday. Sometimes just knowing you’re all here straightens my spine.
All appeared well in my eye and I see the doc again on Wed for a recheck. My changing symptoms may be related to stopping the drops that keep my eye frozen
in a dilated condition. I delayed for about a week when the symptoms began in late sept, so I was understandably anxious about a change. I am fortunate to have a doctor who is aggressive about his attention, even called me the night of surgery to check in because he knows I live alone– even made sure I had eaten!

Again thanks. I am restricted from online until I see him on Wed, so will hopefully see you then.

selise, I’ll check in and thanks, Wimsey was a blast.

namaste
zen

Loosehead’s got the word:

A Fish Rots From The Head Down

(((((zennurse)))))

KLynn @ 110

Biodun @ 96

KLynn and DBaker:

It’s called apathy, apathy… (sigh sigh)

Gotta disagree. It is not ALL apathy. Many individuals I talk to and bring issues to light, find themselves frustrated and angered about the issues. But then they appear paralyzed when invited to action (i.e. self-sensorship.) No doubt there is a ton of apathy out there. However, I am witnessing as much or more self-sensorship, which is even more disturbing.

I see that in my area, too.
I wish I knew how to effect a change, how to help. Very tough problem.

1,641 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen RevDeb:

Nancy One Note is one of those “tortured” catholics on the issue of choice…she runs as main line Democrat but never is seen out front when the rubber meets the road. She is of the Hilary Clinton school of tryin’ “to find a way to reduce abortions”…and “be sensitive to religious teaching” on the subject.

Pelosi has finnessed this issue like she has finnessed everythin’ else…she’s a Catholic Hilary Clinton.

KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER…WE’RE ALL GUNNA END UP IN THE SAME PLACE!!

Norske — She’s been pretty unequivocally pro-choice for as long as I can recall. Do you have particular links or information on that assertion? Because, honestly, I cannot recall her wavering on choice…

zennurse @ 160 –

i’m glad your fears weren’t realized.

i took down the old ones and put up jane austen’s “mansfield park” and have a couple more of dorothy sayer’s wimsey’s series uploading now (i have the entire bbc series).

KLynn @ 79

DBaker @ 76

Reviewing the comments on this thread and the coordinated answers from all of the Senator’s offices who are waffling tells me I have it exactly right, i.e. they know damn well what they are doing.

They are hoping to take the issue “off the table” because their political consultants have told them that they need to cede “national security” issues to the GOP.

So why? Is there some blackmail threat standing in the wings?

Sorry – long-winded answer coming!

No. If you read all the articles and interviews done with people close to Rahm Emanuel they are under the mistaken impression that what wins elections are the “kitchen table issues” and that the Dems cannot win elections when Iraq or “national security” are the main topics. They believe the “Village” narrative, that GOP = strong on national security. I do understand where that idea comes from since the GOP still polls relatively strongly when asked about those issues in comparison with everything else.

It is my personal opinion that it has to do with the fact that the Dems have ceded the narrative in the first place rather than that the GOP displays any real competence on that front either.

Finally, the political consultants in DC, even when they lose elections, still keep their jobs. I’m drawing a blank on the name of the guy who advised Kerry, but sure enough he is now advising Gordon Brown in the UK.

The id of politicians that they strive to be liked. The stories about how Larry Craig is shunned in the Senate is fascinating to me in that the guy is still in the Senate and still has a vote regardless of the fact whether he is really “liked” or not.

In Washington DC, if you want to be liked you have to be part of the “Village.” The Village decides who is a member and who is not, who gets to go to the “in” cocktail parties, who gets written up favorably in Sally Quinn’s gossip section, etc.

So in the literal sense of blackmail, no, there’s none of that going on. On the other hand the weak politicians among them want to be liked above everything – it’s instructive that the people who are supporting Dodd on FISA, are either running for President, don’t give a damn (Kennedy) or are new (Cardin). The others have given the same coordinated answer.

I didn’t go to high school in this country, but I understand it’s sort of the same thing, most politicians want to be part of the “Kewl Kids.” If they don’t follow the rules they are not part of the club and they get thrown out. The only way that culture gets changed is if enough people show they care, since politicians get there through votes. So in answer to Christy’s question, that is the X factor that they cannot control and of course that helps, in some cases dramatically.

Just called Reid’s office. Staff assert that he has no position on Telecom amnesty.

What a pathetic excuse for a Leader. If he supports it, as it seems clear he does, he should say so.

Loo Hoo. @ 115

Okay, I called DiFi for all of the good it will do. Her aide explained why she voted in favor of Southwick to me too (after an email to me assuring that she would not vote for his confirmation). Here are the three reasons she voted for his confirmation.

1. His qualifications and character, his record, past service, and temperment during the hearings.

2. A need to quickly fill this important vacancy, an emergency.

3. A hope that with a future democratic president, the republicans will look at qualifications, temperiment, education, experience, and service.

There.

difi married a defense contractor…pick up the clue phone. it’s ringing

Feinstein has received scrutiny for husband Richard Blum’s extensive business dealings with China and her past votes on trade issues with the country. Critics have argued that Feinstein’s support of policies that may benefit her husband may raise the appearance of a conflict of interest.[5] Suburban newspaper Metroactive has written in 2007 that Feinstein’s husband holds large investments in companies that won large government contracts — without competitive bidding. In April 2007, Feinstein’s office denied there was a conflict of interest and stated that her departure from the subcommittee had nothing to do with the reports in the Metro weeklies.

As of December 2006, according to SEC filings and Fedspending. Org, three corporations in which Blum’s financial entities own a total of $1 billion in stock won considerable favor from the budgets of the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 23

Dang it. Meant to link up several excellent pieces that EmptyWheel has done on these issues of late,and forgot to include them above. Mea culpa…but here they are. Do read these:
– On Patrick Philbin, who will be testifying on Wednesday.
– The Dodge On Retroactive Immunity.
– WH Minimization efforts.
– Spying on Americans Overseas with no oversight or warrant.
– Shorter SSCI: they’re full of crap.
– Using the AUMF as justification for pretty much everything.

Foreign agents using Foreign and US telecom companies to spy on Americans and others in the US. This is one of the issues they are trying to hide.