Okay, at the end of this video, ex-Moloko singer Roisin Murphy gets hurt by smacking her forehead into a chair that was left on stage from a previous song. That’s soooo not why I’m posting it. I’m putting this up because the song is amazing and I can’t find any other video for it on YouTube. I think it’s called “Primitive”. Even with the crappy bootleg video sound quality, this song gives me the shivers.
Murphy returned to the UK yesterday (October 28) where she has undergone an operation under general anaesthetic.
According to a statement: “Despite serious concussion and losing a lot of blood, her vision is unimpaired.”
Her European dates for the next seven dates have been cancelled, but it is hoped that she will make a full recovery before her UK and Irish tour begins on November 26.
Poor baby. I did that once, back in 1993, except it was the stock of my guitarist’s Rickenbacker that I plowed my forehead into, and the resulting injury was just a messy gash with no skull fracture.
Roisin was smart. She left the stage and went straight to the doctor. I took off my shirt and wadded it up and pressed it to the wound to keep the blood out of my eyes for the last two songs of the set. (For the record, we were doing a cover of Aretha Franklin’s “Save Me” at the time of the collision.) It had been a smokin’ set up to that point and I wasn’t ready to let go of the mic just yet. These days I would probably just squeal, “Owwww! Oh, my god!” and run off stage. I’m not quite the rawk and roll theropod I once was.
Anyway, you can send Ms. Murphy get well wishes via her MySpace page. Extra credit to the commenter who can find us an email address.
This made me wonder, do touring musicians from other countries totally walk on eggshells and pray they don’t get sick or hurt in America? I wonder what the cost of Murphy’s ER visit in Moscow was versus how much it would have cost in Atlanta or St. Louis.
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TRex!!!
Two?
Tres?
excellent point, TRex
be sure to let downstairs know who got the zed
Heeeeeey, katymine. How you feelin’?
hello, hello! just caught up with all the posts here…
isn’t it funny what we sometimes keep on doing even when we’ve been smacked in the head?
How many of you after an accident keep running things over and over and over in your head, “If only I hadn’t decided to pick up that belt off the floor, I wouldn’t have thrown out my back” or “If only I had biked the other way to work, I wouldn’t have hit that pine cone and gone over the handlebars” or “If only I had used the right screwdriver…”?
TRex @ 6
Doing OK…. went on two walks today….. made it through my whole two miles each time…. incision healing ok….. I still can’t wear jeans.. :(
TRex @ 8
It can drive you crazy, but I don’t know how to prevent it.
Good evening dear friends.
My stomach is a bit upset. Someone have a link to chicken soup?
My mother: if only I had known it was my husband setting off the burglar alarm coming back in the house after leaving at 0200 to go to work, i would not have jumped off the balcony
(about a 20 ft drop to the hillside below, she tucked and rolled and did way better than i would have done making that jump)
Poor Roisin.
goes back to that old adage:
hindsight is always 20/20
too many cookies last night, tex?
Patience, Grasshoppah. I can’t wear my cowboy boots at all right now. They’re not good for my back.
Sigh.
I feel naked.
Who needs jeans, anyway? My brother was drooling over some new thing from Carhardt a few weeks ago and I said, “Who are you, Malcolm X? ‘Buy all jeans necessary’?”
He didn’t think it was that funny.
Uh-oh, Steve… “upstiars?” ;-)
Suzanne @ 15
I was fine until an hour ago.
I am trying to get the courage to start the video..I am tired of blood.
Steve-AR @ 19
No blood seen.
CTuttle @ 17
I was a science major…wadda ya expect.
Steve-AR @ 19
The song is sooooo good. If there was anything in my bank account besides cobwebs and moths right now, I would go straight to iTunes and get it.
Payday is the day after tomorrow. I took my last $20 out of the machine today.
How exactly does one “watch” their head, anyhow?
I’m also singing the ‘too much month at the end of the money’ blues, trex
Go for automatic deposit, TRex. You get the money at 5:00 the night before payday!
Loo Hoo. @ 25
I do. And here the money goes in at midnight. Sometimes a little after.
TRex @ 8
The light glittering from the edges of the ‘if only’ cloud is the fact that, when something wonderful happens, you get to replay that endlessly in your mind too.
Disneyland has to redesign their boats & the waterway for “Its a small world” because the weight of customers are bottoming out the boats… now isn’t that a sad state of the world…
Too big for Its a small world
I think I am going to turn in.
Night all
Suzanne @ 24
Heh, I’m singing that refrain, myself…! 8-(
TRex @ 22
You need to set up a pay-pal thingie for a TRex iTunes account.
Sleep well and feel better sooner than later dear TexBetsy!
TexBetsy @ 29
Sleep well, Ma’am!
Thanks npb & ct.
OMG…. a Christmas commercial…
Does Roisin have a new album? I have Ruby Blue from a few years ago. It’s time for another.
katymine @ 35
major eye rolling
katymine @ 28
I went on that ride about 30 years ago, with Wendy I think, and that fucking song is still stuck in my head.
Nite, TexB, hope you feel better.
Night Betsy.
How’s the book coming, TRex? With your talent you should be rolling in the $$$.
Speaking of bare cupboards, I need to go poke around in the kitchen and see what I can cobble together in the way of a meal.
I might check back in a bit.
TRex @ 8
“If only I hadn’t bought that trashy blond a drink sixteen years ago…”
Chicken Soup
Hey, that was no trashy blond! That was me!
what’s that song.. i like my women a little on the trashy side…
katymine @ 35
There’s an empty lot nearby that didn’t even do a pumpkin patch — it’s going straight for the xmas tree stuff (no trees yet, but otherwise…)
Y’all are the best. Thanks for the crazy soup cartoon PB.
It’s a world of laughter
a world of tears,
It’s a world of hope
and a world of fears.
There’s so much that we share,
that it’s time we’re aware,
It’s a small world after all.
Pretty good message.
G’night, Betsy…I think I missed ya, though :(
Got distracted by email :-P
Oh good, you did see it ;-)
Smiles always make me feel better — sleep tight!
peanutbutter @ 43
HA!
Loo Hoo. @ 48
Augh! Brain worm!
Loo Hoo. @ 48
great lyrics
the music is the earworm from hell tho
TRex @ 8
Yeah, there’s a car accident from more than ten years ago where I still wonder “had that car I’d stopped for gotten far enough out of the way that I could have moved before I was rear-ended?” and “did I freeze up, or was it just the time-slowing-down thing?” I don’t get it as often as I used to, but it still pops into my head occasionally.
Heck, there’s an accident I had when I was a teenager that I still turn over in my mind.
It’s a small world after all…
JK!
Triple-equis rated pen pr0n.
Redshift @ 54
I was in an accident quite a few years back — not at all my fault, but afterwards the guy tried to claim that I’d suddenly changed lanes into the same lane he was changing into. Except taht I know I changed lanes, and was slowly overtaking a garden truck — I was looking at how the equipment was arranged on it, nearly got up to the driver before the guy smashed into me. But to this day, I still recall how I was driving alongside that garden truck as a defensive reaction to his saying I’d just changed lanes right before he hit me — NO WAY. Funny how stuff like that works…
Loo Hoo. @ 55
acckkk now i gotta start singing the archies sugar sugar – one ear worm to replace another and i know how to get ride of sugar sugar
Steve-AR @ 38
Damn Loo Hoo..you went and did it anyway..Now I have the Ohrwurm.
Steve-AR @ 38
In a just world, the Geneva Conventions would prohibit them from updating it without changing the music…
Suzanne @ 58
I’m doomed.
sorry pb
Sugar, sugar is worse. But we could change the whole thought process with Brown Sugar.
loohoo, sugah is the one ear worm i know how to get rid of – i can get that to poof.. its just getting it to replace the first earworm that is difficult…
persiflage @ 27
G’day, Persi! Here’s a track from the new Eagles album…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5mbZ5_Szrg
peanutbutter @ 61
This might be the antidote. Or it might make it much worse. She had an amazing voice, but my God, the crap they gave her to sing …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq5pLi0huhw
TheOtherWA and I will be meeting up on 11/3 at 3pm at:
Blue Moose
4936 N.E. Fremont St
Portland, Oregon
Anyone in the area can join us…
another on the ear worm hit parade
I recall reading some interesting stuff about earworms last year, how in a lot of cases it’s because the brain is trying to complete the song, but you don’t know the whole thing, so it gets stuck and keeps starting over. So somewhat counterintuitively, listening to the song all the way through can actually help.
Which makes me think that part of the evil of That Song is that it never ends, it just goes round and round.
redshift, that makes total sense.. the other nite, i had ‘move on, got to move on’ clip from the pointer sisters running through my head
a quick request to the sty line at kpig and they played fairyland, removing the ear worm
G’day, Persi! Here’s a track from the new Eagles album…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5mbZ5_Szrg
———————————
Gee thanks Chikka, ’cause you know what a huge Eagles fan I am (not), don’t you.
Agh,y’all..thanks for the earworms ;-) I’m gonna *try* to go to bed now. If I sit up thinking of them, I’ll know who to blame.
*hands over ears* LALALALALA…
night, all — sweet dreams
OT..
Tues WaPo
And what was the cost to expand SCHIP for five years? Howie Klein advocates a permanent solution for war profiteers and other Govt miscreants.
DWT
How’s about a wonderful combination of Linda Ronstadt and Amy Winehouse?
persiflage @ 71
The old stuff! You just haven’t heard the new stuff 24/7 yet! ;-)
steve ar, late late nite – off topic is the topic
loohoo, i hope trex comes back to the thread after eating and sees that amy/linda
Redshift @ 69
I read an article last year on that—really interesting. I’d never heard the term ‘earworm’ before but I’d had the condition.
I think they said some people used the Star-Spangled Banner to get rid of earworms, and that works for me.
CTuttle @ 75
Well it’s trundling it’s soporific way past my eardrums as I type. Ten freakin minutes, I don’t know about Long Roads but I know about long, long tracks.
persiflage @ 78
Heh, Hotel Cali, Stairway to Heaven, Two Outta Three,… *g*
This is for Loo Hoo:
link
The wingnuts are going onto panic mode…the progressive’s hate Hillary and the Wingnuts hate Hillary..One or the other is going to have a big surprise.
Redshift @ 69
You mean like The Neverending Story, Redshift?
OMG. Jon Stewart does a killer impersonation of the Gropenator.
Just dropping in to say that the ultimate solution to any Earworm is to sing “Blackbird” by the Beatles over and over to yourself. It has never been known to fail.
he nailed faux news pretty good too TOW
Time for some payback. Try this Rock n Roll Nerd
BRB to see it, Steve @ 80.
Loo Hoo. @ 74
lookie at what loohoo found, TRex
TRex @ 83
Ironman by Black Sabbath works for me. Blows those nasty earworms all to bits. :D
Suzanne @ 87
Ooooh, treasure!
Suzanne @ 84
Yes, as always. Thank God. Comedy Central and MSNBC are the only reasons I still have cable.
Loo Hoo. @ 86
BRB?? Bayerische Regiobahn??
brb = be right back
Suzanne @ 92
Oh!! I thought Loo Hoo had to catch a train in Bavaria.*g*
persiflage @ 85
That’s pretty cool, he’s radical…! 8-)
Suzanne @ 92
yeah. I might be right back soon. The Vic Kohring corruption trial is winding down up here faster than some – including me – anticipated.
you got your latest post up yet et?
Checked the weather in Oregon…. I am going to freeze my ass off …. a high of 61… OMG that is winter to me…
CTuttle @ 94
I wish I could find a You Tube for his Ten Foot Cock and a Few Hundred Virgins. I could only find one with the vocals and no video. I’ll keep searching though, cause he makes me laugh like few others.
Ed*ard Teller @ 95
Ah!! the Alaska crime news:
TPM
Steve-AR @ 80
The first link (in the box) isn’t showing. The second link goes to the strength that Hillary has to continue fighting off the BS. I’m looking forward to the debate tomorrow night. Girl’s got guts, ain’t no doubt about it!
katymine @ 97
Oh my. That’s a nice warm day here. Sure, it can get into the 80’s, but it drops to the 60’s or lower at night. It’s colder at the coast. Just saying. Might want to pack some sweaters.
katymine @ 97
I was at a western regional conference here in San Diego once, with people from Arizona, California, Hawaii, Alaska, etc. Everyone from SD was comfortable, but the people from Hawaii and Arizona were freezing, while the people from Alaska were hot!
Loo Hoo. @ 100
Re-link
link
Who is that nutball who just was on TDS? Did not understand a word he said…. compassionate conservative…. that is so 2000
TheOtherWA @ 101
Ear muffs, Ugg’s, warm turtlenecks, wool socks, umbrella and that should cover basics.
michael gersten iirc
katymine @ 104
Michael Gerson, former Bush speech writer. And obviously clueless.
Newspaperbrat, where’re you from? A very warm place, I assume.
TRex, here’s an update…
Roisin Murphy is recovering in hospital after suffering an outlandish injury while performing in Moscow on Saturday night.
The former Moloko singer, whose solo album Overpowered has been well received by critics, severely damaged her eye socket after cracking her head on a chair while on stage at the Ikra club. She was rushed to hospital for emergency treatment before being flown back to the UK for surgery.
http://music.guardian.co.uk/ne…..63,00.html
tow, npb is on the south side of monterey bay and i’m on the north side – both get chilly and very damp in the winters
Suzanne @ 110
Ok, thanks, Suzanne. That was snark, not fear of any temp below 90. :P
Steve-AR @ 103
Figured it out. Great photos!
Snoopy dance time!
Sheriff of Nottingham — ERR — Orange County indicted by the Feds!!!
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo…..ome-center
Michael Schroeder, Carona’s attorney and the former chair of the California Republican Party, is a law school classmate of mine and a miserable excuse for a human being. Any AUSA worth his or her salt will kill his ass without breaking a sweat.
Pass the popcorn, please.
sorry, tow, my snark detector must be on the fritz again…
burnspbesq @ 113
your ‘kill his ass’ referring to in court burns?
Suzanne @ 115
I would have thought that obvious from the context. AUSAs carry briefcases, not guns.
burns, schroeder is not his criminal attorney
from your link:
just clarifying, burns
Suzanne @ 114
Not yours, mine. I thought NPB was being serious.
It’s late and I’m tired, so I’m gonna quit now before saying something really dumb.
Nite all. Sweet dreams!
Loo Hoo. @ 112
Here is another one..Hillary in Harlem
link
I must say, Hillary tries to be something she isn’t (Bill Clinton) around African Americans. She should just be herself and forget the faux Southern accent.
g’nite tow
Suzanne @ 110
One of these days, I am going to get to Monterey for the Car Show.
Steve-AR @ 122
Ahh, the Jazz festival…!
BTW, Suz, what are they doing with Ft. Ord these days…?
don’t forget the santa cruz blues festival – over 3 days of the memorial day weekend
burns, you got anything on his crimdef atty, stewart?
they are still clearing ammo but areas are slated for low income housing, commerce – npb would know more about that than i would.
Steve-AR @ 122
It would be convenient (although less profitable) if they had it at the same time as the jazz festival.
I better go to bed too. Night, all.
g’nite loohoo
TheOtherWA @ 108
Carmel-by-the-Sea according to our Chamber of Commerce, and rarely very warm but awfully pleasant most weekdays. Once a true artists colony it has been BeverlyHill-ized over the past decade or so. Her Honor da Mayor is a former career CIA official. Similar climate to San Francisco.
Suzanne @ 117
Steward’s a decent guy and a decent lawyer. Used to be the head of the OC office of the Federal PDs. We’ll get a sense of how strong the charges are when the indictment is unsealed tomorrow, but the guy who replaced Deborah Yang as the USA for CDCa is a career prosecutor with a reputation for caution; I can’t imagine he would have approved a prosecution of a high-ranking, high-visibility Republican politician in OC unless they had him cold.
i wholeheartedly agree burns, to indict a sitting rethug sheriff – gotta have him stone cold nailed.
I am going to bail out..the GF has the alarm set for 5 AM so she can run before work.
Suzanne @ 127
I couldn’t believe they were still building Housing units after they’d been BRAC’d… Our tax payer dollars hard at work…
g’nite steve-ar
BRAC’d?
burnspbesq @ 113
Is that Corona near San Diego? I recall that is a very red region. Snoopy Dance indeed! ;~)
Nite, Loo Hoo and Steve!
I am going to head off to bed…. See ya all tomorrow… sleep well …. off to read “Under the Tuscan sun”….. have hard time spelling it… Tucson is 90 minutes south…
g’nite katymine
Base Closure and Realignment (BRAC) – the board that decides which bases close and those that stay open
Suzanne @ 137
Base Realignment Commission, they were responsible for determining which bases to close, during the Clinton Administration days…
newspaperbrat @ 138
That’s Michael Carona, the OC Sheriff, not the City of Corona, just over the line in Riverside County. Orange County is a bright red donut with a bright blue center, the 47th CD represented by Loretta Sanchez.
katymine @ 142
Heh, combine our two responses and we’ll get it right, Base Realignment and Closure Committee… *g*
evening all
Nite, Katy!
they are still figuring out how to develop the presidio in sf, ct
hey sunny
I managed to get three posts up today at our Vic Kohring trial blog. The Feds didn’t exactly tie all the loose ends in their closer…
that’s not a good sign, et – from your blog, it doesn’t sound like their case is as strong as it should have been
Suzanne @ 148
Hmmm… I thought it was still utilized for the National Defense Language Institute, where they train all the linguists for all branches of the service…
Suzanne @ 133
We actually have a new USA for CDCa as of a couple of weeks ago, but the case would have been developed while George Cardona was Acting USA. The new USA, Tom O’Brien, has an interesting resume: USNA grad, was a RIO in Tomcats, and was part of the LA County DA’s Hardcore Gang Unit before joining the Feds. Fitz Lite? We’ll see.
i sure hope we start getting a lot of fitz lites coming out from the shadows of the gonzo administration but it is just a hope at this point.
Well, I shall bid ya’ll another fond adieu! Aloha Oe!!!
g’nite ct
Suzanne @ 153
And speaking of Fitz, here’s a link to a stream and downloadable speech he gave on the 25th…
Just what we’ve come to expect from him.
Niters CT – oh to be in those beautiful islands on this cold damp night.
thanks newton
npb, i spent xmas in hawaii 31 years ago – just didn’t seem right and certainly did not feel like xmas
Suzanne @ 159
Bet is was warm – what island?
Steve-AR @ 80
Apparently it’s produced and financed by the Swiftboaters.
The lawsuit is something about a big fundraiser that this guy Peter Paul (no Mary?) set up for Clinton that cost scads of $$$ and had lots of celebrities. Problem was that Paul under-reported costs, that were then accurately reported by Clinton on her FEC submission. Seemed that Paul was engaged in some sort of scam. He accused someone else who was acquitted. So Paul sued the Clintons and a whole bunch of others for being co-producers. His evidence that Clinton was involved in the production…a recording of a phone call that she made “thanking him” for the fundraiser. That’s pretty much it.
The Courts have basicly thrown out most of Paul’s claims, including the charge that Hillary was a co-producer. But that doesn’t apparently stop the Swiftboaters on this.
And Paul has used his association with Stan Lee as a “prestige” element in all of this. But his “association” is none too pleasant
Paul is a four-time convicted felon who is currently awaiting sentencing on a federal stock-fraud charge stemming from the demise of Stan Lee Media.
Of course none of this is on the video that is so popular with the folks out there that believe that Vincent Foster was killed by Hillary after he threatened to reveal their affaire to her lesbian lover, Janet Reno.
npb, was in honolulu – was preggers with firstborn and every pic of me was ‘this is suzanne right before she ralphed’ or ‘this is suzanne right after ralphing’
weather was gorgeous, 70’s and 80’s and refreshing afternoon showers but still, didn’t feel like xmas to me
well, time for this pup to bail – g’nite all
Off to check out today’s happenings. Nice to see the lake shimmering placidly.
Seems a primary for sure re: the Dole seat. Jim Neal, state sen Kay Hagan, and a third guy, who ran for congress as a Republic last year – gonna try his luck as a Dem.
Hagan’s a powerhouse, recently declined to run. Guess Schumer got busy. Now Liddy’s going to have to.
Sweet dreams Suz – and all you other amazing firedoglake late late niters!
More on the Blackwater immunity deal…
This is what the then head of the DOS Richard J. Griffen stated in his testimony before Congress:
“Depending on the nature of a given incident, the
Department may require remedial training, request the contractor to reassign personnel to duties not requiring a firearm, remove the personnel from the project, or to make referrals to law enforcement authorities. Should the facts of an incident indicate potential criminal acts, further action is determined in consultation with the Department of Justice.”
IOW the DOS can only issue “Administrative Sanctions”. He doesn’t even suggset they have the power to fire personnel or void a contract with a contractor. Clearly DOS is not a “law-enforcement authority” and cannot offer “immunity” for criminal activities. It can only issue administrative handslaps…and only grant protection from those tepid sanctions.
So this whole situation would be like a security guard telling a murderer that if he fessed up then he wouldn’t go to jail…the murderer confesses. Then the gaurd is hauled before court and says “Yeah he explicitly described everything about the murders”. The promise of immunity means “jack sh*t”…and the security guard cannot hold back the evidence if subpoenaed. Tough titties to the guy who believed that he had the power!
Ditto to Blackwater…those statements would be equivalent of trying to get a confidentiality agreement from a diplomat for telling them about a crime. The diplomat has no right to offer such…and would have to tell their superiors. Or face dire consequences.
Nothing should prevent the FBI/DOJ from using these statements as evidence…there was no lawful authority to offer it. And Blackwater should have checked with their lawyers before doing so.
Griffin resigned from the head of the Department of Security on Oct 24th…the same day Condi made an announcement of new oversight rules regarding Blackwater. I suspect that he was the one that issued the offer of immunity. but it just demonstrates how little Condi has control over what is occurring under her that she
a) didn’t follow the investigation and explicitly delineate ground rules for the investigators. No offers of amnesty or protection. If the Blackwater staff/employees plead the Fifth…they would be subject to the full range of administrative sanctions.
b) didn’t keep up with what was going on in the investigation so that she didn’t know that immunity had been “offered” by the time of her Congressional testimony. Either that, or she failed to divulge critical nformation to the Committee. Either way she’s put herself in a “Gonzo” position. Expect requests for the emails between Condi and the DOS people to ensue, because now the SJC will need to find out who is offering immunity to Blackwater contractors.
Condi is inept and out of touch with the disaster in Iraq…it’s pathetic. It ate up Colin Powell, and Rumsfeld, now its gonna chew up Ms. Rice, and spit her out. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving sycophant!
cinnamonape @ 166
Great analysis, cinnamonape. Thanks.
I would like the GOP Presidential Candidates to be asked if they favor torture for Blackwater Mercs and why illiegal wiretaps has not yet been used in this case?
After all what else is Condi hidding? Why are wiretaps good for Americans but not Blackwater or the State Dept either justice is blind and even in its application. Or it is a tool of oppression.
morning!
i too love finding cinnomonape’s thoughtful comments, frequently in or close to epu land.
cinnamonape @ 166
Only thing I would add is that they played a seminal role in creating the monster that ended up “eating” them. And, at least they have jobs (money/a means of making same), health, and are alive (which is more than many of the troops who were pushed off as fodder for this war have today).
yo yo yo
Good morning!
We need Congress to go after WH emails. Also who really has the authority to grant immunity? I thought only prosecutors/judges did?
Also do the Bushies realize that the more links to America that Blackwater has the harder it is going to be to deny knowledge of and responsiblity for warcrimes?
People are shot I get a statement from the shooters I offer them immunity from prosecution. The investigation will go nowhere despite all the eyewitnesses. The killers go free but it seems obvious that the Government engaged in a cover up. By granting immunity in the first place plus I expect all the witnesses to be ignored.
I expect the Government will refuse to prosecute despite G.W flicking the switch on the chair for less evidence, G.W will make sure Blackwater’s rights are protected.
These likly actions by G.W to prevent the Mercs fron talking implicate him in as the most likly beneficary of a coverup with the means to pull it off. This short term benefit Gambler/Alcoholic thinking is leaving us a lot we can use later since Nancy doesn’t have the Spine to do anything about it.
We should just turn Bush over to the Hauge let them investigate leave the GOP fighting the UN while we change the country. Force them to divide their efforts between two opponets with two agendas.
Plus I want Congress investigating Hedge funds and big oil Bush is guilty lets let the UN prove it.
Things Come Undone @ 173 –
there’s a lot of things congress should be investigating and aren’t. if i get a rant started on that, i’ll never get finished on this morning’s update to this week’s congressional hearing list…
damn those committees that add hearings at the last minute or don’t bother to post the info until the last minute!
anyway, i *think* there’s a potentially good one to add for wednesday:
i think this may be part of the Krongard investigation. will track it down and, if so, email emptywheel, christy and scarecrow.
Good Morning!
woo hoo! it is part of the Krongard investigation!
The House Judiciary hearing on voting rights will be at 10am this morning, and will be broadcast on C-Span3.
See if Tanner is able to deflect blame away from von Spakovsky, whose nomination for FEC is on hold. In any case we ought to be able to learn something about the government’s efforts to thwart fair elections.
Good morning, 34, clear and breezy in Trendy Blue Ridge GA. Howdy Selise, Raven, CApe, Elliot, Wigwam,Richmond..
Once information is available, unclassified even if first repoted on a small blog, or pg 10 of the Northwest Herald we get information out quicker to our people, we evaulate it, talk it over about what it means, we even argue. Or differnt fields of knowledge turn this place into a firestorm of differnt takes on an issue.
I’ve seen one person defy the entire group a few times and win or lose they kept commenting like normal the next day despite whatever harsh feelings occureded in the previous thread.
We don’t feel we have to win every argument or change everymind dissent is ok, nonpaticipation is ok, Troll tactics are not.
Tactics and goals are flexible I do what I can for the movement I don’t tell you all, everything I do nor do I have to. Movement toward generaly accepted goals of Ending the War, stopping the GOP/Bush, getting everybody a real healthcare plan is what binds us.
I think by having less control our movement frees information to be evaluated better by less internal/external editing. We don’t worry that failure in Iraq may embarrase the President. We don’t have appeals to force and authority to unify us and stifle thought, Knowedge of the Good as Socrates would say is what unites us to know the Good is to do the Good.
I’m not saying we are more moral, smarter etc but ending the war is a no Brainer on the do the Good list.
egregious @ 177
thanks! i’m glad it’s on c-span… that means more people will get to watch it, and it will be available in the archives for those who don’t watch it live.
Good morning, pups. It’s Bobo and Bob Herbert in the NYT today. Bobo yet again completely and utterly fails to get the point about why Americans are unhappy with their government. Mr. Herbert tells us about a situation in New York where homeless families are being turned away from emergency shelters. This is an ugly situation, and it’s real. A friend of mine testified before the City Council about the turned-away families she has sheltered at St. Ann’s Church in the South Bronx where she’s the rector.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
The coffee and tea are all ready, and I’ve got a selection of bagels with LOTS of cream cheese. Have a splendid day.
selise @ 174
Thanks Selise!
mr. bill – sounds cold in GA… colder even that here in MA (40 now).
Things Come Undone @ 173
I’m very concerned that once again nobody will be held accountable for misdeeds of a presidential administration. I fear that the second President Clinton will want “not to criminalize politics” and to “put it all behind us” and to “focus on the future” and to “move forward, not wallow in the past.”
There are several obstacles to bringing these evil-doers to justice:
— Pardons by the outgoing president.
— Pardons by the incoming president.
— Failure to prosecute by the incoming president.
— It has become an American tradition to treat OLC opinions as “pardons in advance,” i.e., get-out-of-jail cards.
— McCain’s Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 and the MCA of 2006 give support to the good-faith defense.
— The MCA relieved federal courts of jurisdiction over cases involving detainees accused of being “unlawful enemy combatants.”
— The Hague Invasion Act of 2002, which prohibits federal, state and local governments and agencies (including courts and law enforcement agencies) from assisting the Court. For example, it prohibits the extradition of any person from the United States to the Court; it prohibits the transfer of classified national security information and law enforcement information to the Court; and it prohibits agents of the Court from conducting investigations in the United States.
Marion in Savannah @ 181 –
are families being turned away because there is no space? or is it something else?
selise @ 183
Well, I’m at around 2000 ft.
fyi – updated the weekly hearings list today with 8 additional hearings.
Edwards vs. Colbert
Edwards spokesman Eric Schultz put out this statement:
I like Edwards
1,642 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ JEST GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen TRex and the Early Mornin’ Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Top a the mornin’…maybe today is the day that folks finally wake up and say “what the fuck??!!!” and hit the streets ta throw the bastards out. (Sigh) Or maybe not…maybe jest another day of tryin’ ta make contact with all the other Firepups and hold somethin tagether until we figure out some meanin’ ta all a this. But whatever…
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER…THAT’S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT!!
cinnamonape @ 161
I think the Wingnuts are in Panc mode too did anyone watch that video REV Jerry Fawell and my old State Rep Phil Crane ( the oldest guy with Senority never to head a House of Reps committe because of his Drinking) put out it was suppose to be filled with anti Clinton propaganda.
I think if we release all the crazyist antiClinton/Kerry swift boat etc stuff the Right has produced at once we can inoculate the American public from the “rummors”. One over the top lie after an other on network tv each more crazy than the last until antibodies form in American minds from the introduction of too much stupid to be ignored! Stupidity Antibodies a tyrannts worst foe.
selise @ 187
thanks selise!
.
Here’s one related to discussions yesterday about postal rates:
10 am – House Oversight and Government Reform
Subcommittee Hearing: “Will Increased Postal Rates put Mailers out of Business?”
there is hope in the safest gooper seat in America
Patrick McHenry what a tool in one of the safest gooper seats in the Country may have some problems
http://pageoneq.com/news/2007/ Ro…_fina_1022.html
Hickory Veteran Hopes to Un-seat Incumbent McHenry
A 31-year-old attorney from Hickory is hoping to un-seat incumbent Congressman Patrick McHenry.
Daniel Johnson lost both of his legs in the Navy.
He tells our Kristen Hampton today that he wants to continue serving his country in Washington.
———
“The only thing that’s gonna limit me is myself. If I put my mind to something I can accomplish whatever it is I want to accomplish. Despite whatever injuries I may have sustained.”
Daniel Johnson doesn’t mind talking about the accident.
http://www.wbtv.com/home/10797361.html
Wigwam & Things Come Undone
-My other fear is that if these acts are allowed to stand without congressional or legal response, they then become part of the history of actions that have been at play (and can continue to be so).
If I were Bush I’d be scared that late late at night or even before the crack of Dawn people care enough everyday to be here and try and stop him.
Richmond @ 193
It’s telling that the Right can’t get it’s head out of it’s collective nether orifice long enough to think that Hillary or Edwards with all the Unitary Executive powers that CheneyBush has claimed is their uberNightmare…
Imagine a condition where the War on Terror went to war with America’s terror makers.
MR. Bill @ 186
ah ha. i’m at the very top of a hill – but only 760ft.
MR. Bill @ 195
Not of course, that I actually expect Hillary to do something like that.
I long for a ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ commission.
OH, NO…MSNBC is reporting that a damn in Iraq is in danger of collapsing. Will kill 500,000 Iraqis.
Norskeflamethrower @ 189 –
thanks for the morning shout of encouragement!
solai @ 198
it is the mosul dam we’ve been hearing about for some time? or a different one?
selise @ 196
At 15′ here and worried about global warming.
Just gotta say that here in NH almost every poll has HRC well ahead but I am darned if I can find one person, man or woman, that I know who says they will vote for her. Anytime she is brought up, a lot in my very political and my wife’s very feminist circles, the first words about her are a negative… no idea what the polls are reporting.
Mornin’, gang -
Long drive yesterday and just now getting caught up on toobz news; looks like it was a busy day.
selise @ 180
Dog bless C-Span or we’d *never* hear about 99.9% of the spit hitting the fan.
One thing to please remember for far too many on-line fire pups: some of us do NOT have computer capability (for variety of reasons) to access these archives.
Example: either I have to run the car to be able to catch C-Span 3 live on sat radio or listen to the idjit box 24/7 in hopes of catching reruns on C-Span 1 or 2. :-(
OTOH – if it weren’t for your wonderful lists of hearings, selise….I’d be totally lost so lots of {{{ }}} headed in your direction for this invaluable service.
selise @ 185
They’re being turned away because the city claims they have “alternate shelter.” This can range from being sent to Puerto Rico (!) to being told they have to live with an elderly parent who has a doctor’s statement saying it would be detrimental to her health, to staying with an ex-boyfriend’s step-parents. It’s not a pretty situation.
nomolos @ 201
create poll results and then adjust the machines accordingly.
“Follow the Money”
Waccamaw @ 202 –
if your computer is capable of downloading an mp3, i’d be happy to rip an audio of any hearing you are especially interested in. if all goes well, i get usually get it available w/in an hour of the hearing (or break). something to keep in mind.
also, if i may ask, is it your computer or the bandwidth required to stream the video? if you are on dial-up, there is audio only streaming for c-span.
selise @ 200
Well one bright spot: Blackwater is there already, and they got alot of experience when the levies went in N.O. so they should be able to take care of everything. *s*
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 204
i do not trust poll results. especially after the questions mark penn did not answer when he was here.
selise @ 200
Yes It’s the Mosul dam.
wigwam @ 184
This needs to be repealed now! This is the Key!
Watching the GOP argue that we don’t commit warcrimes, but that torture is ok, but waterboarding is not torture, and even if it was, its not torture if the President orders it, but he never ordered it, then why is the the left worried American’s rights are still protected unless their Jose Padilla or on a no fly list.
Blackwater, Scooter and Darth lets trade with Iran in defiance of the law Chenney however shoud never have their phones tapped or be waterboarded because they are special/more equal than others.
We have to make an example of Bush as Richmond@193 worries otherwise our history will seem to infir that might makes right. Which is a horrible message to send to the future
The Hague is just the place for it. Someplace free of American political bias pro and con. I still think that regular solders need to confess everything to a Truth Commission in return for amnesty.
Release the Statments those guys got amnesty compare what they said to public accounts and the results of the investigation if Blackwater lied about anything doesn’t that revoke amnesty?
I dont know about the health care, but by chance there are just now big stories in Finish afternoon papers how couple of Finnish musicians got to the hands of USA border control. They were flying via Amsterdam, had long hair, guitars etc. So they got snatched and the services wasn’t too good. One of the favourite thigs was to yel “you have no rights”.
So there are other risks also ;)
Link(in finnish)
MR. Bill @ 197
I think that the question of a post-election truth-and-reconciliation commission should be on the table now. For instance, all of the presidential candidates should be asked about their position on the appointment of such a commission.
Jingoistic Joe calling Mika Pollyanna this a.m. Mentions interviewing Plame yesterday and admits he believed Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Powell and all, but not anymore.
Then proceeds to carry the water for hatemongering against Iran “epicenter of global terrorism….”
Attaboy, Joe. Tell it to Saudi Arabia and Yemen and Afghanistan. Meanwhile, we’ll look for you and your son in the enlistment lines.
Watching MSNBC. All Hillary and Barack all the time. No other candidate is even mentioned. And, I’ve seen the clip of Barack and Ellen dancing quite enough, thank you.
MR. Bill @ 208
Can they evacuate in time? Was the Dam attacked or just neglected? We as the occuipying power are responsible for the safty of Iraqis even if Condi/Nobody could reasonably forsee that a dam needs repairs every now and then. We are Responsible.
MR. Bill @ 208
but we’ve know it was a problem and could collapse at any moment for years. why the fuck haven’t we done anything about it? we’re the occupying power – and responsible for this kind of thing.
damn. pray for the people… there is no high ground to flee to.
solai @ 214
and there hasn’t been one vote cast yet. It’s criminal.
Things Come Undone @ 215
Iraqi Dam Seen In Danger of Deadly Collapse
By Amit R. Paley
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, October 30, 2007; Page A01
AT THE MOSUL DAM, Iraq — The largest dam in Iraq is in serious danger of an imminent collapse that could unleash a trillion-gallon wave of water, possibly killing thousands of people and flooding two of the largest cities in the country, according to new assessments by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and other U.S. officials.
Even in a country gripped by daily bloodshed, the possibility of a catastrophic failure of the Mosul Dam has alarmed American officials, who have concluded that it could lead to as many as 500,000 civilian deaths by drowning Mosul under 65 feet of water and parts of Baghdad under 15 feet, said Abdulkhalik Thanoon Ayoub, the dam manager. “The Mosul dam is judged to have an unacceptable annual failure probability,” in the dry wording of an Army Corps of Engineers draft report.
Water rushes down a spillway at Mosul Dam. As engineers monitor the structure to determine leakage, machines constantly pump grout deep into its base. (U.S. Army Corps Of Engineers)
At the same time, a U.S. reconstruction project to help shore up the dam in northern Iraq has been marred by incompetence and mismanagement, according to Iraqi officials and a report by a U.S. oversight agency to be released Tuesday. The reconstruction project, worth at least $27 million, was not intended to be a permanent solution to the dam’s deficiencies.
“In terms of internal erosion potential of the foundation, Mosul Dam is the most dangerous dam in the world,” the Army Corps concluded in September 2006, according to the report to be released Tuesday. “If a small problem [at] Mosul Dam occurs, failure is likely.”
The effort to prevent a failure of the dam has been complicated by behind-the-scenes wrangling between Iraqi and U.S. officials over the severity of the problem and how much money should be allocated to fix it. The Army Corps has recommended building a second dam downstream as a fail-safe measure, but Iraqi officials have rejected the proposal, arguing that it is unnecessary and too expensive.
From http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=artslot
Elliott @ 217
Exactly. The daylong meme has been set. Reality has no place in modern news. It’s all about the gotcha.
Do your part. Send the Edwards speech to your friends. Write LTEs or comments to talk radio about its vision and promise. The speech is wonderful.
Demand better of the pathetic media. How can these people look themselves in the mirror without slashing their throats while shaving?
selise -
As you have probably determined by now, you’re talking to a total Luddite here. *g*
Have copied your notes and, as luck would have it, my computer guru is coming over tonite; he’ll definitely get questioned on the items you’ve offered. Thanks muches!
Things Come Undone @ 215
background from patrick cockburn.
and i see this in yesterday’s wapo:
selise @ 216
Jinx! I was thinking the same thing Bechtel was the engineering firm given responsiblity. There is noway they would forget to inspect a dam that big.
Just like the Minnesota bridge we need the Engineers reports and recomandations if the dam wasn’t attacked.
Things Come Undone @ 209
That’s exactly why Bush and a bunch of his cronies have bought land in Paraguay after the Paraguayan Senate in 2005 granted U.S. personnel immunity from national and International Criminal Court (ICC) jurisdiction.
Ok pups, gotta go. Be excellent to each other.
Waccamaw @ 220 –
good luck. email me if i there’s anything i can do. don’t let ignorance be an impediment – that’s my motto!
MR. Bill @ 218 –
you beat me to it!
So lemme see if I get this dam [am I spelling that right?] story. We send pretty much all the money in the world over to Iraq, and a large number of our trained professionals, and we are allowing a dam collapse that could kill 500,000 people.
Well I guess we need to send even more money. Or something.
wigwam @ 184
Agree that there are barriers. And that Clinton MAY be the type to “forgive and forget” (though I can see reasons that she would be the most likely to be the most aggressive in going for prosecution, as well). I could see Edwards and Obama going into the “we must move the nation forward, beyond the partisanship” theme as well. Not sure about the other candidates…Dodd and Biden seem the most upset about these issues. Maybe who will support going after the culprits can be discerned in who have made statements about Telecomm immunity. I haven’t heard Edwards or Obama (or Gore) saying we need to impeach Cheney or Gonzalez, much less Bush, for that matter.
I’d just hope that the President doesn’t interfere with any investigations and brings in a good AG. Also something must be done to prevent Bush and Cheney from sealing their WH records.
As far as OLC’s – if they don’t come close to conforming with consensus opinion on the law, they should be ignored. Any good Attorney General would, and no good WH Counsel would trust flawed OLC interpretations to “make law”. The Supreme Court and Appelate Courts have been pretty scathing about the MCA’s Constitutionality in regards to the very issues you point out (Judicial Appeal). As I recall the decisions have been near unanimous regarding the Courts jurisdiction to Review Constitutional issues on “illegal enemy combatants”. They have asked the Congress and the Executive to work out new rules regarding these that comply with the Constitution and the Military Code of Justice. The new set of issues that relate to Military Commissions have yet to work their way through the system to the Supremes.
Selise@221
Northern Iraq is safe for Americans because its Kurdish or is it in a disputed border zone? If its safe then there is no reason why we couldn’t get the work done.
Also when Engineers listen to politicans wether its the Guv of Minnesota or the Iraq’s puppet Government disaster follows.
Things Come Undone @ 209
Per Giuliani, “It depends on who does it.” If I waterboard you, it’s harsh-but-necessary interrogation. If you waterboard me, it’s cruel torture and a warcrime.
People like Giuliani lack even the most primitive ethical concepts.
IRT to the dam: The entire world will rise up to condemn us. We will be the most hated nation on earth. Nothing in the article says that they are evacuating. Will Condi say that no one could have anticipated such a calamity? OMG, this is a disaster. Half a million Iraqis in jeopardy. Every day is worse than the day before.
Mornin’ all
President Bush Announces Recipients of Presidential Medal of Freedom
twolf1 @ 232
gasp!
Major Iraq dam could collapse, killing 500,000: report
From correspondents in Los Angeles
October 30, 2007 03:12pm
Article from: AAP
IRAQ’S largest dam is in serious danger of collapse and up to 500,000 people could die if it does, an alarming US assessment has found.
“The assessment, by the US Army Corps of Engineers and other US officials, warns as many as half a million people could drown if there is a catastrophic failure of the Mosul Dam, The Washington Post reports.
US officials had concluded that Iraq’s second largest city, Mosul, could be left under almost 20 metres of water and parts of Baghdad could be under 4.5 metres, said Abdulkhalik Thanoon Ayoub, the dam manager.” Isn’t the GreenZone where our troops are at in Bagdad? Where’s SpiderPaws I’m guessing Bush’s sign is water soluable?
http://www.news.com.au/story/0…..02,00.html
cinnamonape @ 227
The angle that the Bushies have been working is to validate the good-faith defense: “I was just following orders in good faith on the assurance of counsel that what I was asked to do was legal …” It’s the platinum version of the Nuremberg defense.
It’s interesting that you mention Dodd as the candidate least likely to let these bastards off the hook. It turns out that Dodd’s father was one of the prosecutors at Nuremberg, and Dodd recently published a book of his fathers letters from Nuremberg: http://www.amazon.com/Letters-…..0307381161
Until now, I hadn’t quite made that connection, but your damn right: he’d be the guy that would prosecute them.
Prosecution of these evil doers ought to be a major campaign issue, and it turns out Americans, especially white males, often vote out of spite: http://www.nypress.com/print.cfm?content_id=10369
solai @ 198
Actually it could kill more. But Petraeus says the the danger of collapse is not “imminent” though substantial.
http://www.boston.com/news/wor….._collapse/
wigwam @ 235
All these issues and concerns are why I am liking Dodd most as a Candidate. Not because he will push BushCo to the Hague, I don’t think he would, but because I am seeing and hearing that Dodd will correct the erroneous policies Bushco has made.
http://jibtrim.blogspot.com/20…..chive.html
scroll down a bit.. if the damn is bursting this is entirely the fault of the US
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 204
Yeah, I guess the Marist Poll is rigged. Which means Edwards and the others actually don’t have to campaign hard in NH, because all the Hillary stuff is the result of big money buying off the pollsters.
Trust the internet polls on progressive blogs…that’s really how things are going!
Sorry…but there is a bit of a difference between looking at the evidence and recognizing that you have lots of work ahead, and creating some fanciful theory about reality. One possible hope for Edwards (or other Non-Hillary supporters here). If Obama’s status plummets because of his association with homophobes, then maybe Edwards or others will pick up those jumping off his train.
If Edwards gets all Obama supporters then that puts him within 10% of Hillary. Maybe by working hard he can convert some Richardson supporters and some Hillary leaners and actually pull it off.
cinnamonape @ 239
I like the way you’re thinking here.
Who are the Hillary supporters? Is it name recognition? I’ve never heard anyone say that Hillary is their first choice, and I’m in NY.
Does anyone understand how the State Dept can grant immunity? I understand that DOJ and Congress can but I also thought they both required judicial approval. How can State just grant the Blackwater thugs immunity?
cinnamonape @ 239 –
good points. i therefore, offer this correction:
(is that ok?)
“the we must move the nation forward, beyond the partisan ship” argument is not going to fly. Only 11% of the American people have faith in congress.
Which ever party pushes hardest for accountability will take the White House and congress. The crimes committed by this administration have gone beyond partisanship.
Real honesty and accountability is what is needed here, that is how this nation can move forward.
did anyone hear that last crazy racist cspan caller calling in about opinion on the cuba embargo? “blah blah blah… cubans don’t belong in the united states… blah blah blah… democrat communist chris dodd wants more cubans! no more cubans!”
solai @ 241
I’ve heard a few say they’d vote for Hillary, but it seemed to me their willingness to vote for Hillary is a submission to the inevitability of her nomination as expressed in the MSM
I think Edwards still has a good shot in IA. If he pulls that off he then has a shot at NH. I’ve been an Edwards backer for quite a while though I am quite dismayed he has not come out more clearly then he has on FISA. He does say it needs to be constitutional but he does not talk specifics. I’m not sure he understands how important this issue is and how much support from progressives depends on taking a strong position here. Oh well.
Christy’s upstairs
Your President Inaction
The polls count people with land phone lines and not cell phones. But what about the liklyhood of voters to vote? I’m betting everyone here will risk a blizard to vote in the primaries which given how many primaries have been moved up even more into the winter months makes our votes more important.
But where are the numbers of likly and exteremly likly voters who we don’t think will support Hiliary?
tw3k @ 237
All these issues and concerns are why I am liking Dodd most as a Candidate. Not because he will push BushCo to the Hague, I don’t think he would, but because I am seeing and hearing that Dodd will correct the erroneous policies Bushco has made.
That’s my take as well. But my primary is not for a good while, so I may not have much choice by then. But I’m not going to sit on the sidelines and let Giuliani, Thompson, Romney or McCain continue the Bush-era!
solai @ 241
Then why do people respond on the phone to the pollster that they will support Hillary in the Primaries???
I really think that many of us are so politicized that whenever we talk to people about who they support they respond in the way they think that will avoid confrontation. I know lots of people who support Hillary (I’m in Sacramento) and will say so if they know I’m not going to try to convert them. Once I start arguing with them they shut down.
I tend to think that her supporters are… yes…people who want to end the Bush nightmare and are unsure that the other candidates can win. Try to argue that Hillary is the one that will not win over the Republicans and they may grudgingly admit, “I voted for Bush one time”.
Hillary’s the favorite by name recognition and that’s partially because the Republicans have attacked her incessantly. She’s become a sort of “anti-Bush” as a result. If you look at other countries the same sort of thing happens. The most attacked and defamed opposition leader is accepted as the one that is supported most by those who oppose the party in control. Sure there are factions within the opposition that actually don’t support that leader but they become a lightning rod.
For the other political leaders in the opposition they have to struggle hard to emerge from that relative obscurity. It’s hard to get attention if you aren’t a sitting governor or Senator. It’s difficult to get attention if you are in a the minority party. It’s even difficult to get attention if you are in the majority party, but weren’t part of the Administration (the problems with the Republicans…and thank God Cheney isn’t young!).
Party members with sizeable followings on the margins sometimes form third parties either before or soon after the polls. They usually are swept along by the enthusiasm of their followers, which obscures a more general lack of support, either regionally or in general. The activism and energy can be confusing and deceptive. Almost always those schisms are premature, at least in the American political system. The general history of third parties in this country indicates that they rarely win elections, but can lose them for the party that suffers the schism. If Ron Paul runs as a third party candidate I suspect it would hurt the Republicans, just as the candidacy of Wallace, Perot, and Nader did. The only time when a “pure” third party (as opposed to reformed coalition parties) actually won was in 1860.
Parties usually change from the inside, although some have argued the do so when large numbers of those who fled to third parties return to the “fold”. But there are dangers. When John Anderson ran in 1980 he likely drew off many “Rockefeller Republicans” from the party. They never were able to return to their previous importance afterwards. Social Conservatives controlled the machinery as a result of the “Reagan Revolution”.
selise @ 243
Yep…Penn is a PR shill. There are lots of problems with his methodology regarding identifying interest groups. And we all know that campaigns release private polling results when they wish to influence political campaigns. Even more insidious is the use of polling to massage political opinion by asking leading questions or providing information that may shape perceptions.
“Please rank from 1-10 whether you believe it will least (1) or most (10) affect the “X” campaign
X voted for partial birth abortion
X announced that his divorce was the result of his turning to the gay lifestyle…etc.”
These are cases where the survey isn’t a survey at all…it’s an attack ad. many are more subtle, but still designed to shape opinion or bring issues to the forefront that people ignored.
Surveys and polls have to be carefully examined as to source and methodology. Who was surveyed (the sample pool), how were they approached (phone, internet) was the selection random throughout the process or was there self-selection, how large was the sample and what is the standard error, were there and “massaging” of the raw data to make it reflect what the sampler believes to be the “voting public”? How was that “massage ratio” determined?
Take Rasmussen, which massages their data based on the proportion of Democrats, Republicans, Indys “in the population”. Yet Rassmussen somehow derives these ratios from their own surveys. But why would one survey allow the determination of these proportions yet the raw data in another survey not reflect these ratios??? I’ve never been able to figure this out. I’ve also never been able to ascertain how their polls never waver from a tight fit despite the probability that, on occasion, there should be statistical error of 3% off on one side or the other. One would expect such normal “wavering” about 5/100 times. But the daily survey (e.g. of Bush’s approval) never ever seems to jump more than 1 or 2 points.
It’s best to use many polls and look at the trends that occur in them rather than place too much meaning on actual numbers.
http://www.pollingreport.com is the best compilation of surveys for this. Oddball results stand out so that you can look and see if this survey has some sort of methodological bias vs. other surveys.
I never trust internet surveys that say “vote here”. They mean nothing other than the biases of the people that (repeatedly) chose to vote on that issue. They may influence public opinion, however…particualrly if someone wants to influence opinions of those on a particular site or group.
Look at what happened at the Conservative Christian (Family Research Center) “Values Voters” Convention. Attendees overwhelmingly voted in-person for Mike Huckabee, a conservative Southern Baptist Minister. Mitt Romney was way down at 10%, Ron Paul virtually non-existant. But when the internet votes were counted Romney won, and Ron Paul placed third! Someone was stuffing ballot boxes!
J @ 244
This CNN Survey actually supports your position.
While overall Congress has a very low support level (22%) most of that disgust is clearly being leveled at Republicans. Even the Democratic leadership, held by many as being ineffective and solicitous to the Republicans and Bush, actually rate in at 43 percent, twice that of Congress in general. And they are still well above the results of Bush.
That means that the poor Republicans must be wallowing way down below 10% support!
Still the Democratic leaders still confront a disapproval rating of 51 percent, 11 percentage points worse than in March.
But this may suggest that the “rank-and-file” may have better ratings if the public is blaming the problems in Congress with the leadership. I suspect, intuitively, from what I have seen on this site and elsewhere that the leadership has really become a target of disappointment, if not vilification, for failing to be tougher with Bush and controlling their own Caucus to succeed inthose efforts.
Haha, that is so funny. I wish I was there to see it so I can laugh my butt off. It is kinda sad, but it is still funny to laugh at someone else’s expense. That’s cool of the guy to take his shirt off and press it against her wound. I want to go on her MySpace page now to leave her a get well comment!