Remember that Blackwater killing of 17 Iraqi civilians – and the oh so independent investigation that was supposed to dig out the truth (yeah, right).
Well, it seems the investigation is stalled because:*
The State Department promised Blackwater USA bodyguards immunity from prosecution in its investigation of last month’s deadly shooting of 17 Iraqi civilians, The Associated Press has learned.
The immunity deal has delayed a criminal inquiry into the Sept. 16 killings and could undermine any effort to prosecute security contractors for their role in the incident that has infuriated the Iraqi government.
H/T to Marcy who wonders:
Gosh, I couldn’t imagine why the State Department would immediately immunize all the guards in this investigation, can you?
Anyway don’t you think that’s something Condi should have told Waxman’s committee the other day … that these guys had already been given immunity from prosecution and that, therefore, the FBI investigation is likely to end up–like all other investigations of Blackwater–holding no one responsible?
Given the apparent lack of investigatory muscle we’ve seen on Blackwater, it’s encouraging to see that “the UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions is planning an official visit to the US to investigate allegations of unlawful killings by US military and non-military actors in Iraq and Afghanistan. Incidents like the killings of Iraqi civilians in Haditha prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, and civilian deaths caused by airstrikes in Afghanistan have all raised issues that Alston would like to investigate.”
The Rapporteur, Philip Alston, noted:
“I am very interested in questions relating to military justice, … in other words, the response to alleged extrajudicial executions by members of the U.S. military, particularly in places like Iraq and Afghanistan,” he said. … During his U.S. visit, Alston said actions by “non-state actors and military contractors” are also “clearly an issue I would want to look at insofar as executions are involved, and obviously in the Blackwater case recently they are.”
Along wth supporting robust investigations, citizen action can help to block Blackwater. Crooks and Liars noted the audacity of the company’s latest PR attempt to use the wildfires as another justification to build in California – in fact right near the location where the fires started – Blackwater attempted to claim they would have been able to fight the fires. The Courage Campaign is asking for signatures on their petition to Senators Boxer and Feinstein asking them to help stop Blackwater in California. You can sign it here.
* Interesting (but not surprising) to note that the Washington Post’s report on the immunity deal uses a photo from the 2004 killings of Blackwater personnel in Fallujah instead of the photos circulating from the killing of the Iraqi civilians on September 16th of this year.
Video: trailer for the film Shadow Company.
Related posts:
- UN Special Rapporteur: US Drone Strikes in Afghanistan “May Well Violate International Humanitarian Law”
- Blackwater Bribed Iraqi Officials After Nissour Square Massacre
- Scahill: Blackwater Rent-an-Assassin Service Integral to Bush Counterterrorism Plan
- BREAKING: Vaughn Walker Dismisses Challenge to Retroactive Immunity
- Obama’s Statement on Afghanistan Massacre Hints at Internal Administration Conflict
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Maybe?
no way.
siun!
(congrats bn :)
2 in a row would B 2 much.
I wonder if the FBI knew about the immunity deal at the outset of their investigation?
I bet they didn’t and I bet they are pissed off.
Thankyouverymuch.
I don’t think the State Department has the power to immunize spit but IANAL.
could granting immunity under such circumstances be considered a war crime?
Also I would point out that there would have to be a legally authorized deal for the immunity and lying would nullify any such deal even if it existed (which again in legal terms it probably doesn’t).
Thanks Jane. How
the @#$%does the State Department have the authority to immunize anyone? Can DOJ rescind that?Just further proof: GREAT CRIMES DEMANDS EVEN MORE CRIMINALITY
IMHO, we ain’t seen nothing yet…
Hugh @ 7
And immunity from whom.. military, FBI, both? Is it in exchange for complete and open testimony? Has immunity been offered to others?
This angers me no end.
And, what is the standing of the State Department that they can give immunity in this way?
Is anyone surprised? Bet it was part of the contract-the unwritten part.
just what does it take, how many innocent lives, how many American lives, how much damage can be done to this country before the people we put into office honor their sacred oaths to god and country?
pelosi must be removed from her position and she must be replaced with someone who knows what must be done if this country has any hope
Does this mean that Condi lied by omission to Waxman’s committee? It would be a lie in this household.
Reminds of the motivation behind the Libby commutation, perhaps.
The immunity deal has delayed a criminal inquiry into the Sept. 16 killings and could undermine any effort to prosecute security contractors for their role in the incident that has infuriated the Iraqi government.
Buzzy and Cookie Krongard, Cofer Black, Negroponte.
Loo Hoo. @ 16
Quick, anyone have a copy of the transcript in their back pocket?
This is an outrage.
And, for those of you who missed Siun’s last post, this is not entirely unrelated:
Rummy on the Run
Loo Hoo. @ 16
She had to have know about this.
Valley Girl @ 21
Him and Kissinger must have the same travel agent now.
*g*
LS @ 22
Ongoing investigation dance.
Waxman must be rubbing his hands together on this one…Prediction down the line….Condi has decided to spend more time shopping for shoes…
We have gone so low that people admit war crimes and think nothing of it.
C&L
I think we can all agree that Condi thinks there should have been more oversight and no doubt wonders why someone didn’t order it.
At this point, what seems to be most critical is what the American voters decide year from now.
LS @ 18
Keep tugging on this LS. Maybe it will unravel something huge.
Evening all … and thanks Valley Girl for pointing up the connection to last night’s …
Seems like we must depend on international agencies to bring back the rule of law in America.
Steve-AR @ 26
Jeebus!
And as I commented over at Emptywheel’s TNH:
A PDF of the email listing a number of pending claims for Blackwater acts is here.
Toby Wollin @ 19
Here’s a video and anything you might want. Also info on Blackwater flight 61, which crashed in Afghanistan in 2004.
The belief here is that Rice has always been irrelevant. I suppose the question might be asked, ‘who exactly is relevant’? In this administration.
Siun @ 30
Hi Siun. Punaise showed up earlier, and I pointed him to your post. Haven’t heard back from him. But he’s our resident francophone. I hope he checks in on this thread.
Siun @ 30
and what a disgrace — and it’s In Our Name.
.
thank you Siun.
Steve-AR @ 26
Sure sounds like war crimes to me.
surely the unitary executive guy will invoke his power to dis-immunize the Blackwater evil-doers, in the name of liberty and justice.
VG, Siun – I’m around. need anything translated?
Hey Punaise! Did you read “Rummy on the run”?
One of the important things here is to avoid conflating what the military and non-military have done. As soon as anyone from the UN starts to rattle that particular tree, any investigation is going to get tossed onto the shit-pile of history no matter how much truth is brought forth because it’s gonna be a “you hate the troops” deal, and BlackH2O will get a free pass.
Just sayin’. It’s how the Wurlitzer Works.
How can our State Department offer blanket immunity from prosecution to mercenaries operating in a foreign country?
That make no sense whatsoever. Under what legal system do they claim this immunity is granted?
Valley Girl @ 40
bookmarked for this evening’s reading
EPU’d commented by John in Sacramento…Re: Dov Zackheim. From May 2003.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..251738.DTL
“WHAT HAPPENED TO $1 TRILLION?
Though Defense has long been notorious for waste, recent government reports suggest the Pentagon’s money management woes have reached astronomical proportions. A study by the Defense Department’s inspector general found that the Pentagon couldn’t properly account for more than a trillion dollars in monies spent. A GAO report found Defense inventory systems so lax that the U.S. Army lost track of 56 airplanes, 32 tanks, and 36 Javelin missile command launch-units. “
Where is it? How can you lose 56 airplanes, etc.????
punaise @ 39
No- but last eve I was wondering if you might be able to call France (Siun’s links) or local consulate, to see if words from Americans would have any impact in encouraging the French re: their brave act re Rummy.
Mad Dog – thanks for the added info!
The commission Condi appointed (see first link above) tells me all I need to know about her willingness to come clean.
I want immunity for anything I may do.
September 10, 2001
Rumsfeld discloses $2.3 billion missing:
http://benfrank.net/patriots/n….._trillions
punaise @ 43
k- if you have time right now, tho, at least scan Siun’s post. I think you’ll the get the drift.
Blackwater is/was security detail for high end politicos,diplomats.
That is probably their angle on the immunity deal.
Snif sniff, anyone else smell that?
I listened to part of an NPR show this afternoon while driving…Basically US “special unit” looking for Iranian agent..IED’s..blah..blah (usual bullshit) attack Iraqi Shiite village, village guards shoot back, thinking they are being attacked by Sunni militia. US calls in helo gunships and AC-130 gunship and blow the shit out of the village. 30 plus Iraqi civilians are killed and a lot more wounded. The next day at a military news conference they announce that Iraqi “criminals’ were killed…no investigation.
OK folks, I have a number of questions I’d like answered and I’m hoping Henry Waxman’s brain is on the same wavelength as mine(we already seem to have a direct connection over the whole Blackwater employees being misclassified as contractors thing).
1) Who authorized this immunity (so called “Garrity Protections”)? Was it Griffin, who just resigned?
2) When was it authorized? Immediately after the report became public? Or after it was announced that the FBI was taking over the investigation?
3) Why was everyone both on the ground and in the air in the area given these protections? It seems that this blanket was thrown over everyone before the FBI could figure out who were the real actors in the drama.
LS @ 44
Honey, I shrunk the tanks?
Valley Girl @ 45
heck, yes – I’ll call the SF consulate.
I’m changing my name to National Security Secret, so that I can never be held accountable…or maybe it should be, BlackwaterUSA, or maybe it should be Verizon or AT&T….
LS @ 48
2.3 bil. Is that what they call “walkin’-’round money”?
Toby Wollin @ 53
Mistakes on a Plane
Yeah because Immunity is the tool and road we must take right now to get to the truth. Immunity is the Constitution exercise/output that this country so needs to find the tracks so we can get back on track.
Immunity for Traitors. Money for torturer’s.
LS @ 55
How about “Scooter Libby”?
Blackwater and Chalabi. It really is getting strange.
Well, it would have to be “retroactive” immunity, not just “immunity”, right?
punaise @ 54
Oh wow! that is very good.
Maybe point them to Siun’s post last eve? With Siun’s permission, of course?
I would love to hear what transpires.
Here’s the DoS policy on “Use Of Force” for the Blackwater folks in Baghdad:
Note that no shots were apparently fired into the engine block as I’ve been able to determine on the numerous videos the MSM has shown of the “target” vehicle.
Also note, the above information was taken from the testimony of Ambassador Richard J. Griffin – Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security at Rep. Henry Waxman’s House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Oct. 2, 2007
Ambassador Griffen has since resigned/been fired.
Don’t worry. Hillary/Obama will take care of all our problems.
It’s all a huge game of CYA.
BushCo and Blackwater are in bed together and f8ck the Iraqi’s.
Call me crazy but Condi and the kids can bestow immunity for anyone and anything, in the states. Granted, that immunity might lie beyond the jurisdiction of the state department but hey, this version of America has gone insane, so whatever. But for crimes committed in another, sovereign nation, would it not fall on the government of that nation to choose to offer or rescind immunity from prosecution? Perhaps I missed the clause where the Imperial Condi gets to dictate laws of convenience unto the world. Silly me.
Siun, did you see this on the other thread:
“Howard J. “Cookie” Krongard was sworn in May 2, 2005, as Inspector General for the U.S. Department of State and the Broadcasting Board of Governors.[1] Krongard has been accused of “repeatedly interfer[ing] with investigations into fraud and abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan, including security defects at the new United States Embassy in Baghdad.”……….
“Krongard’s brother, A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard, was formerly the executive director at the Central Intelligence Agency “(its number three position–he was replaced with the infamous Dusty Foggo).” Buzzy Krongard “worked alongside Cofer Black, now Blackwater’s vice chairman, who was director of the CIA’s Counterterrorist Center until 2002. After his tenure at the CIA, Cofer Black worked at the State Department as its Ambassador-at-Large — a roving ambassador — for counterterrorism, before going to work at Blackwater in February 2005.”
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..;_Krongard
Can Clinton win without the progressive vote?
OT–
Gagged FBI Sibel Edmonds has told Brad Blog that she is willing to tell all no matter the consequences. Rawstory also has it linked.
(I would link it but I don’t know how to do it.)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 68
“If” the election is fair (rolling eyes), Edwards will win by a landslide unless Gore gets all the way in…I think he’s already in myself…
LS @ 44
This article is from 2003. What’s the dollar amount now?
Per the AP via TPMmuckraker, the DOJ initiated its investigation through the Criminal Division but when it heard of the Garrity grants, it sealed the statements and switched the investigation to its national security division.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004589.php
lambchops @ 69
To link: Go to the URL at the top of the page of what you want to link…highlight it, hit Ctrl “C”…go to where you want to paste it, and hit Ctrl “V”….
You have to grudgingly give this bunch of crooks credit for figuring out how to;
A, Politicise the Federal government.
B,Profit from every possible crooked angle concievable,
C, Avoid any oversight
D, refer to B,
E, Continue to corrupt every department and sub department at will.
lambchops @ 69
He’s the link
Loo Hoo. @ 71
Don’t know…but that which is missing, all told, could arm an entire country…private military and all….Paraguay????
Sometimes it’s as if we’re in quicksand:
-emptywheel (from the post)
O/T Bill O’Reilly just told billionaire Mark Cuban to pull his movie for the release, or O’Reilly will be Mark Cuban’s worst nightmare. I think O’Reilly needs new meds.
Elliott @ 77
Maybe it’s Cheney throwing Condi under the bus, because of her position on Iran…I smell Addington/Fielding…
I do not support Hillary Clinton for president. At this point I am inclined to support the nominee of my party. And that could change.
Hmmm…I wonder if Gates is going to end up under the bus too…then it’s, to quote Cheney, “Full Steam Ahead”.
Thanks LS and Steve-AR :)
OT..”Carnegie Mellon Study Ranks Most Informative Blogs”
link
Ding!
Rice could well be the next wheel chock on the list.
She is expendable.
In fact, that brings me back to Condi’s reaction that seemed genuine during the hearing that she was unaware of what was going on in her department.
This is Cheney’s baby coup. Cheney is king of compartmentalization.
This better get asked at the Republican CNN/You Tube debate:
Do you approve of the granting of immunity to the Blackwater employers who killed 17 Iraqi civilians?
I want to watch them all say they approve of the cover-up of this slaughter.
My position is that Condi deserves her adventure under the bus.
Steve-AR @ 83
FDL is number 70.
The evil Michelle M…is number 5.
What? Is there no justice???????
We need to be careful how the term “immunity” is used in these stories. It’s confusing, but here’s how I read this:
There was an initial investigation done by the State Department — it was not a criminal investigation, because State is not a law enforcement agency. As part of that State investigation, the investigators gave “immmunity” to those it interviewed — meaning that any information revealed in those interiews could not be used in a criminal investigation — once such investigation began.
The Justice Dept is now involved, and it is using the FBI to conduct interviews. Those interviews are part of a possible criminal investigation, and as far as I can tell from the stories, statements made in these interviews are not under under any immunity — and because of that, some of the people being interviewed are invoking their 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination — they don’t have to answer the FBI’s questions.
So there is no general grant of immunity; those who committed crimes can still be charged and prosecuted (assuming we can sort out whose law to apply), but those prosecutions cannot use or be informed by any evidence obtained during the initial State Dept. interviews conducted under the promise of “limited immunity” for answers given or evidence obtained in those interviews.
The chance of “pollution” between the first interviews and the second is present, and that might prevent successful prosecutions, but that remains to be seen.
CalGeorge @ 87
But, but, Chris Shays says they have a “perfect” record (using his most insincere faux sincerity).
Digby on the Obama issue:
link
Toby Wollin @ 89
That is such a bunch of crappola….Spit!
Toby Wollin @ 89
I did initiate the “gag reflex” in moi.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 88
In which case, I advise her to devote her time to some study of Strunk and White and perhaps one of the more strict books on spoken English grammar, since she does not appear to have the capacity to formulate a complete declarative sentence.
Loo Hoo. @ 71
I’ve been saying this since day one boys and girls
if we wrote a book about a president who’s agenda was to undermine our national defense, who’s every action was to weaken the country, and they put the decisions of this president and the results in that book, we would dismiss it as too far fetched, that the American people would watch event after event and not see that there is a plan to dismantle our ability to defend ourselves
the ordinance that was lost here, this is arming our enemies…that’s right, we are ourselves arming our enemies and we are doing it by design
remember that cache of weaponwry that the military “neglected to gauard”?
do you REALLY think that went to the Iraqi’s?
errr
no, that was used as well, these weapons are added to that, they got away with that and they will get away with this
we are being undermined from within
it’s been said an enemy could never defeat America from without, our fall would come from within, it would be wrapped in a flag
I don’t remember who to give that saying attribution and I don’t remember the exact quote
but this is bizzare, that we are standing by and watching them not only disarm our armed forces but in the same breath arm our enemies
things do not bode well
Shortly before leaving office, Bush will grant blanket immunity.
LS @ 76
Well, if they are Army planes, then they are most likely smaller, prop driven and not jet aircraft. I don’t know what tha Army inventory of planes is these days but I doubt if the Air Force would allow them to have a large inventory of fixed wing jet engine machinery
Toby Wollin @ 89
What did all the Congressman and future Congressman bring down our rating? Just a joke.
The Carnegie Mellon study is more complex – check the methodology. As I understand it, it’s an academic study looking at how influence is spread using data from 2005 … haven’t had time to read it myself but I have heard it’s not meant to be read as a current list.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 96
Maybe THAT’s what he means by “the big tent”.
Steve-AR @ 93
I don’t even see Kos on the list!!! MSM is always citing Kos. What a bunch of crappola…another Spit!!!
This obscene presidential money primary and beauty contest, for the past 10 months, has addled and stupified progressive America and its erstwhile representatives as BushCo has continued to fling compound unconstitutional shit high and low.
STILL we have 14 more months of this administration in office. I think any honorable candidates would be suspending their campaigns right now to address the current Constitutional crisis with their every fiber, most especially the OFFICE-HOLDING ones.
Toby Wollin @ 89
DailyKos isn’t even on it. That tells you how accurate a study or algorithm it is.
Toby Wollin @ 94
But she’s an expert on the Russians. That’s why we’re getting along so fabulously with them.
I hereby grant anyone reading these words full and comprehensive immunity for any deed, action or inaction that is now or may have been illegal or improper.
Youre welcome.
OT..Crime news from Alaska..
Veco CEO: My Nephew Blackmailed Me Over Stevens Remodeling
TPM
dakine01 @ 97
Hmmmm…well, I think that the Air Force is just as much in the dark as we are. How do you lose all that stuff…the money…I understand…Then there is the recent nuke incident.
Good one Kiddo.
So anyone who is surprised by this move by State raise your hands.
.
.
.
I thought so/not.
RevDeb @ 103
On the other hand, I think we tend to get a distorted view at FDL. The % of the US voting population composed of “lizard brains” is quite high, IMO.
Sandman @ 78
What movie? Sorry, I missed Bill-O just this once.
RevDeb @ 109
note: it’s stone quiet here, stone still.
Scarecrow: from the AP article:
The initial investigation – by Condi’s favored experts (inc. how many who work for other mercenaries?) gave immunity and did not examine the scene until 2 weeks after the event … the FBI now has to convince the same folks to confess basically … so yep, they *can* be prosecuted but I’ll take bets on the likelihood.
I don’t know if Ambassador Joe Wilson (or Valerie) is reading tonite, but if you are, perhaps you could help us out here at The Lake in this regard:
1. It appears that the Diplomatic Security Service within the DoS is a “law-enforcement” agency, and therefore may have authority to grant “immunity from prosecution”. Can you confirm that?
2. If you know, who within the DoS has the legal authority to grant immunity from prosecution? The issue I’m curious about is how far down is such authority delegated?
To the Embassy level? To Ambassador Crockett? Or if you know, is it at the level of Ambassador Richard J. Griffin – Assistant Secretary of State for Diplomatic Security and no further?
3. Lastly, would you prefer that DoS folks be guarded, as had been the case for decades, by the US Marines as opposed to private contractors?
I find the “argument” that the US military does not have sufficient strength to supply less than 1,000 guards (the number Blackwater is supplying in Baghdad) for the DoS as specious.
If we can’t find an additional 1,000 US military personnel, we be in really deep doo-doo.
This country is scaring me…but we ride on…hair flying in the wind (if we have any) and goggles!! Damn, the deeds get worse, but the good thing is we still have the ability to access information…for now. We just have to hang in there and hope they don’t pull something before they leave.
Mad Dogs @ 115
I heard valery on tom harman today, man she was great
tom also asked her about brewster and jennings, valery was lips buttoned as can be
Loo Hoo. @ 111
I don’t know, probably released in the next two months.
Probably named “Redacted”
LS @ 55
Or you could call yourself NarusInsight Intercept Suite so you can be a real life Gladys Kravitz and spy on everyone
Remember what Erik Prince said?
“We’re Americans working for America.” Ya fucking liar. You’re not working for me!
I’m so into seething the cats are hiding somewhere.
The Republicans are missing the boat on Blackwater. They could call Blackwater and what they provide, ‘insourcing’.
LS @ 102
No TPM or Think Progress either.
Is there a way to buy stock in Blackwater?
Perris @ 96 – a lot of those weapons apparently went to the PKK … I keep meaning to post about that and then getting sidetracked, maybe later this week.
This is wrong on so many levels.
First, when did the State Department become an arm of law enforcement? They were the employers of Blackwater so they have a direct conflict of interest in the case. Then there is the fact that it occurred in a nation we have said was a “soverign state” so under what possible authority does the state department have to give immunity?
Scarecrow @ 90
I’d like to civily disagree about the bolded part. *g*
According to Bureau of Diplomatic Security’s own webpage:
And Prince is the son of a multi-billionaire. Is this a great can-do country or what! The land of opportunity. A nation of self-made rich white men. Why… just look at our leader.
OT.. Chris Bower’s Obit. for the Obama Campaign:
link
There is a lot more:
Maybe they’re gonna try to trade Blackwater for Harriet Mier’s Inherent Contempt charge…..
I have to go back to Goldsmith stating that the Administration is seriously afraid of war crime charges….somebody throw the book at ‘em all!!!
Surely, the behavior of this Administration qualifies for treason on so many levels. I’m sick of them all.
Apparently Rumsfeld has plenty of immunity.
Steve-AR @ 127
I knew he was bogus from the minute the media annointed him “Rock Star”…
You guys just don’t seem to comprehend. “Impeachment IS off the table”.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 123
It’s a lil family owned operation. And Eric made over $1 million, but he won’t say how much over, because private is the key word in private contractor.
Loo Hoo. @ 122
It may have been said already, but Condi cannot grant immunity from international law. So these guys could still be charged under international law. What have come to, where we can’t expect justice in our country? Where we have to look for an international court to charge people like Condi for giving immunity to murderers, and to charge the mercenaries themselves under international law?
Daily we reach new levels of degradation!
Chalabi obviously has immunity. Where do the Demo front-runners stand on the issue of Chalabi?
The think Erik was most worried about during his testimony was the questioning surrounding the RNC…I’d say start digging there.
I’ve always felt the Obama campaign was one part of a two tiered DLC maneuver against the left.
TheraP – that’s why I am so pleased to hear that the Rapporteur will investigate – just as I hope we are all asking the French to move forward with a prosecution of Rumsfeld. International law is the only way we will see justice.
Honestly, it’s gonna take us, together with the rest of the world, to fix the mess in this country. Go France!!!!
On topic for a change: This is good; repost?
WaPo
The rules of the US House of Representative for the 110th Congress provides for the removal of a seated Speaker, during session, for the purposes of preserving the “dignity, and the integrity of its proceedings” under the constitutional prerogative of its function with respect to impeachment. Any member of the House can bring forth a resolution presenting a question of privilege to declare the Speakership vacant based on this provision.
http://willyloman.wordpress.co…..at-vacant/
@ 134
Steve-AR View this users Facebook profile says
October 29th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
OT..”Carnegie Mellon Study Ranks Most Informative Blogs”
link
Siun thinks it is outdated.
Eureka Springs @ 137
ES- I never trusted the guy. Just a gut reaction.
And, what is the second part? I’m guessing you are thinking of Hillary. ?
Oh I see it now – we’re all over the edge.
This has nothing to do with anything important — which is the whole point: bop over to icanhascheezburger.com and see the crop of new bunny, cat, and dog photos they have up. My favorite in Patrick Stewart, bu it’s a close call with Anger Management Kitteh.
Loo Hoo. @ 143
Well, yeah! I mean my little rinky-dink blog isn’t on – what the fu…..
Oklahoma kiddo @ 136
Maybe that will be asked tomorrow night…
Siun, it may take a long time, but I’m looking forward to seeing these turkeys sitting behind glass in the Hague.
TheraP @ 149
pheasant under glass: when their collective gooses are cooked
punaise @ 149
uh.. birds of a feather flock together?
TheraP … I’ll buy the champagne for that!
Mad Dogs @ 125
Meaning they can indict/prosecute someone? If that were true, there would be no point in calling in the DoJ and FBI. I’d don’t think these terms means what we’re assuming.
Valley Girl @ 143
Partially gut reaction on my part as well as his ties with Lieberman and not challenging Hillary in any significant way among many other lame performances. His campaign immediately coddled to the right without ever showing up in places like FDL etc.. I think he has always planned on being HC’s VP.
Eureka Springs @ 154
I heard obam say he didn’t vote for the war, or I seem to remember him saying that
he wasn’t a senator when the vote came up though
PW is up.
Siun… well, if not much comes to pass, you’ll be able to afford the champagne. However, if we really hit the jackpot, the entire vintage of a given year may still be too little!
Scarecrow @ 153
Scarecrow – the AP article says the FBI was brought in when DoJ realized they could not prosecute because State granted immunity:
Watching the canidates fold one by one, diebold, and using G.Fords words from the grave should all open everyone’s eyes to what is really going on here. We are being manipulated on so many levels. These hearings, the canidates, the laws that are being passed no matter how many calls, faxes emails we sent they hear nothing…ask yourself why? How can this be?
Scarecrow is right…
“… it was not a criminal investigation, because State is not a law enforcement agency. As part of that State investigation, the investigators gave “immmunity” to those it interviewed — meaning that any information revealed in those interiews could not be used in a criminal investigation — once such investigation began.”
But I have a question. If State is not a law enforcement agency (I quite agree) how do they have the authority to grant even “use” immunity? Can an official from the department of education bestow immunity on a fellow employee who is under investigation by the justice department?
sonate @ 160
Yeah, I wondered the same thing as a I was reading your question.
Scarecrow @ 153
Yah, I’d agree with you there. I’m guessing “law enforcement” means they think they’re “cops”. Not quite the same thing as “prosecutors”, and to my understanding, “cops” don’t give immunity, “prosecutors” do.
So the question still hangs out there: By whose authority was “immunity” given, and what is their word worth?
Could be worth nothin’ at all.
“Scarecrow – the AP article says the FBI was brought in when DoJ realized that State could not prosecute because they granted immunity:”
The quote from the story is consistent with what I’m explaining. Statements give to State investigors under conditions of immunity cannot be used in a criminal prosecution.
It does not follow that even if no immunity had been given, the State Department itself could have prosecuted any crimes. Maybe they have that authority for diplomats (or their contrators) serving oversees, but that would mean a judical power exists inside the executive branch, and I doubt it.
So I think we’re reading more into the quote than warranted when you conclude “DoJ realized that State could not prosecute because they granted immunity.” I think DoJ realized DoJ could not prosecute using the State interviews because those interviews were conducted under grants of immunity. I’m not certain; just extrapolating from general principles.
Remember when there were DoJ officials/witness forced into testify to the Congress, under limited immunity? The immunity allowed them to testify without incriminating themselves. So the only way for DoJ to prosecute them would be to base it on information obtained completely outside the Congressional testimony to which immunity applied. I’m guessing that same principle is at work here.
Tell everyone you know to write to their congressperson to put IMPEACHMENT back on the table! NOW.
No iimmunity for war crimes. No immunity for murder.
The State Department cannot immunize murderers before the investigation, or there is no America.
More info from the NYT:
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross.” ~ Sinclair Lewis
siri@legitgov.org
http://www.legitgov.org
Most everyone can talk about granting immunity but it’s my understanding that only federal judges can give immunity. Any lawyers out there? Help us here.
Next year in the Hague!
You cannot grant immunity to war crimes.
LS @ 93
That wouldn’t be a Carnegie/Richard Mellon Scaife study, would it?
Sandman @ 118
No, but O’Reilly is likely putting the producers of that film and also “Rendition” on his list of people to be visited by Fox Security.
Cuban’s film is called “Loose Change” and deals with the 9/11 Attacks, and raises a lot of issues relating to that. Not sure if it is a documentary or a drama. But I think it’s a documentary since Charlie Sheen is involved in narrating it. Bill d’O has said that Cuban is Anti-American and would have been thrown in prison during WW2, also sees he’s gonna be “watching” Sheen.
But this sort of stuff has been going on for at least 6 months between Bill d”O and Cuban. I guess the film must be coming out soon. I think that O’Reilly is really perturbed about this because a lot of his followers believe in the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory…but attribute it to plans in the Clinton period or a secret CIA cabal independent of Bush.
This is what the head of the DOS stated in his testimony before Congress
“Depending on the nature of a given incident, the
Department may require remedial training, request the contractor to reassign personnel to duties not requiring a firearm, remove the personnel from the project, or to make referrals to law enforcement authorities. Should the facts of an incident indicate potential criminal acts, further action is determined in consultation with the Department of Justice.”
Clearly DOS is not a “law-enforcement authority” and cannot offer “immunity” for criminal activities. It can only issue administrative sanctions…and only grant protection from those sanctions.
It would be like a security guard telling a murderer that if he fessed up then he wouldn’t go to jail…the murderer confesses. The promise of immunity means “jack sh*t”…and the security guard cannot hold back the evidence if subpoenaed. Tough titties to the guy who believed that he had the power!
Griffin resigned from the head of the Department of Security on Oct 24th…the same day Condi made an announcement of new oversight rules regarding Blackwater. I suspect that he was the one that issued the offer of immunity. but it just demonstrates how little Condi has control over what is occurring under her that she
a) didn’t follow the investigation and explicitly delineate ground rules for the investigators
b) didn’t keep up with what was going on in the investigation so that she didn’t know that immunity had been “offered” by the time of her Congressional testimony
Condi is inept and out of touch with the disaster in Iraq…it’s pathetic. It ate up Colin Powell, and Rumsfeld, now its gonna chew up Ms. Rice, and spit her out. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving sycophant!
I would suspect being a designee of the President, the Secretary could grant immunity through him. If that be the reason they were able to do it, if I were a Democrat running for office I would scream constantly to demand who gave the immunity, by whose order and why. This is not a State Secret! This was MURDER! The Republicans were out raged, I mean outraged! by Willie Horton. The Republican candidates are all over Huckabee because of his approving early release of a rapist who later raped and killed a woman in another state. This is a KILLING OF 17 PEOPLE. IMMUNITY!? Are they nuts? In my opinion they have to be protecting Prince and his largess.
The way I read the news accounts on this immunity, the Blackwater guys have not been granted immunity from prosecution. Rather, they were given what amounts to “use immunity” for statements they made as part of an internal investigation. This is often done in police departments when there is an internal affairs investigation. The cop being investigated is told he must cooperate and answer questions truthfully; if he does not, he can be fired for failure to cooperate. The flip side of it is that the statements he makes, and evidence derived from those statements, can’t be used to prosecute him in a criminal case.
Here is where a big problem occurs: If the prosecutors decide to charge him with a crime, they must show the evidence they propose to use was INDEPENDENTLY obtained. Often that is nearly impossible.
Kastigar v. U.S. (United States Supreme Court, 1972.) http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cas82.htm