After seven years of Emperor C-Plus Augustus and his Avignon Presidency (to use Charles Pierce’s exquisitely apposite terminology), the international community has apparently decided that America, so long as Bush and the John Bolton neocons remain in positions of power, cannot be trusted to play nice, particularly when it comes to Iran.
– The IAEA’s El-Baradei has said that there is no evidence that Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons. They are working on nuclear technology to supply power and electricity, which they are allowed to do under treaty. (In fact, Iran was given its first taste of nuclear energy back in the 1950s by American oil companies, who didn’t want the Iranians to waste all that lovely oil on themselves when they could be letting Americans take it from them.) Furthermore, he’s said flat-out that attacking Iran “would absolutely lead to disaster” — something our wonderful US corporate media doesn’t want to emphasize.
– Russia’s Vladimir Putin has come out and told the US to shut the bleep up with regard to Iran. In case you’re wondering why Bush might want to listen to Putin, it seems that Russia (unlike Iran) has these things called nukes. You may have heard of them. Bush won’t respond to morality, but he responds to force.
– Previous Bush efforts to isolate Iran economically have failed badly, so of course Bush is now ramping up the pressure. Europe, so far, seems to be yawning — that is, when guys like Putin aren’t telling Bush to STFU. Of course, Dick Cheney’s Halliburton has operated in Iran for decades, despite President Bill Clinton’s 1995 Executive Order forbidding American oil companies from doing business in Iran, and Cheney himself opposed sanctions while he was officially running Halliburton, so it could be that the Europeans are sick of the Bush-Cheney hypocrisy on this.
– Meanwhile, the Iranians get to look above the fray as they counsel the Turks, Kurds and Iraqis to stop attacking each other, even as Bush orders our troops to help Turkey hunt down Kurdish separatists in Iraq.
Whatever you’re hoping to accomplish, George — besides high oil prices — I don’t think you’re getting it.
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lolo and PW!
Well, he did say that he wanted to be a war president, so he could so whatever he wanted. Or something like that.
Valley Girl @ 2
well, he is a warped resident of the White House
Great Post!!! Go get ‘em!!!
I still pray that someone is laying the really, really, really, really, really big karma ratrap for these people…
Let’s not forget that this is the guy who grew up happily blowing up frogs.
No consequences. Ever. For anything. Anywhere.
Hey..he’s been on total immunity for 60 years.
P.W. – Advanced lunacy. Is your sense that the MSM is turning this around a bit?
Something’s gotta give.
Richmond @ 6
Not as long as they continue to give folks like Little Billy Kristol and Norm Podheretz a forum to spout their gibberish, no matter how many times they’ve been proven to be idiots.
Hi PW. Great post.
Time to move on and leave this criminal to the tender mercies of Waxman, Conyers and The Hague.
Unless you want ‘more of the same’ you’d better get busy and start to work on this man’s campaign.
He just told you what he intends to do…and it’s basically what everyone here and in the rest of Free Left Blogistan sez they want.
So….are you gonna ‘put your money where your mouth is’….or what?
Heard a name for him the other night I hadn’t heard before.
Mike Malloy calls him “raison brain.”
Seems fitting.
Didn’t you love it when Putin lectured Condi at the photo op in Russia a week or so ago?
The Congress may be acting like door mats, but we see more and more international leaders and other countries standing up to bush and his ilk.
Seems like Laura is the only one left that they can push out front to try and give themselves a break. Won’t be long before they start lecturing her too, I’ll bet!
I keep thinking there must be a lot of secret pacts against US aggression, just waiting to take effect. Horrible thought. But other countries may feel they need to band together against these bullies.
Maybe Laura is in charge
A.Citizen @ 10
As for Waxman, WTF is up with him and his committee regarding Sibel Edmonds?
punaise @ 3
Punaise- that he is.
Went to google and couldn’t immediately find the link to an interview w/ Bush saying he wanted to be a war president (prior to “election”) but FDLers have posted that interview link here.
However, I did find this:
“I’m a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign-policy matters with war on my mind.”
Press the Meat Transcript for Feb. 8th 2004
When Bush dementia gets out of control and he throws out a line like WWIII, people tend to take notice. I don’t think Putin was joking about “An attack on Iran would be an attack on Russia”. The current generation may get re-familiarized with “duck and cover”, “fall-out shelters”, “Def-Con” and “throw-weight”.
Junya, high on oil, and never coming down.
snowbird42 @ 13
I wonder if Laura Bush was in favor of invading two countries and voting down S-Chip?
American broadcast journalism…. UNWATCHABLE cept for OLBERMEN
punaise @ 3
That one tops the list!
The Bush Failure.
-GSD
Valley Girl @ 15
Prolly uses one o’ them Whee-Gee boards to talk to the Big Guy.
Steve-AR @ 16
I don’t think those kinds of hidies would do much good with nuclear weapons. Atomic, maaaybee.
Things are going swimmingly in Diyala Province in light of the successful “handover” today…I guess BushCo have it all under control:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4255389a12.html
George W. Bush is a mess. From the looks of things he always has been. The troubling thing is what kinds of things can this little boy get us into in the next 15 months? This is worrisome. Seriously.
I also liked the French President’s response of WTF to 60 minute questions about his personal family matters. In essence he was suggesting that there is a world out there that is burning, get real. Not that I like the guy, but I wish some of our politicians would tell Kitty Couric et al were to get off.
sadly yes @ 19
Half of Olbermann.
Does anybody else of a certain age feel the way we did during the Cuban Missile Crisis? Not sure in the morning if we were going to see the afternoon?
dakine01 @ 8
Podhoretz was on the NewsHour this evening debating Fareed Zakaria. I know the NewsHour has gone downhill but next they will be having flat earthers on.
LS @ 24
Damn, and Rummie’s too busy hiding from the French to give us a “boys will be boys” speech.
And, speaking of MSM did Fox ever screw up the world series. Not only did they keep the whole thing going close to 4 1/2 hours for the ad revenues (and this in a 9 inning game), but they also missed pitches and outs to squeeze a few more ads in between innings. They should be banned from future series reporting.
Loo Hoo. @ 23
Oh, cripe! Did Putin actually say that??? I figured he was just communicating in sign language and that no one believed that he could mean — well, what he said.
LS @ 24
Hard to beat this one though:
The horrors of Iraq.
CNN’s Nic Robertson: “One international official told me of reports among his staff that a 15-year-old girl had been beheaded and a dog’s head sewn on her body in its place; and of a young child who had had his hands drilled and bolted together before being killed.” More at The Plank. July 10, 2006 2:02 pm
In light of Putin’s recent statements, if Bush attacks Iran it will be the beginning of world nuclear war. We are on the precipice.
Hugh @ 29
you mean they haven’t already?
Since the repigs took over the CPB, NPR and PBS have both jumped the shark. I knew we were in trouble when Scott Simon became a cheerleader in the run up to the war. Have rarely listened to NPR since.
http://www.brightcove.tv/title…..1114268176
~~Bush on “His War” and Being a War President
Pres. Bush answers questions after giving an interim report on Iraq (12 July 2007) and answers Helen Thomas on “his war”. He went on to describe what it’s like being a war president and making descisions based on principle, not politics.~~~
Who can get Bush (Cheney) to step back on Iran?
TexBetsy @ 37
Maybe a lightening bolt from the heavens.
TexBetsy @ 37
Sounds like a job for Jeff Gannon.
-GSD
TexBetsy @ 37
Good question. Colin Powell couldn’t pull them from Iraq. Perhaps had he threatened to resign, but no.
TexBetsy @ 37
Obviously, Laura. *g*
high-status non-troll Seymour Hersh says:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..67229.html
H. Clinton could make nuking Tehran part of her campaign speech, and she would still be the Least Worst, and therefore deserving of support from the (D) captured section of the netroots.
no way.
beyond the pale, unsupportable by anyone sincerely anti-war, and therefore very, very defeatable.
Me and my sweetness are going to visit some of our fave rad blogs. And then to bed. We bid you all well.
Richmond @ 31
I was fascinated by the fact that all during the ALCS pennant and the WS, the announcers could never ever bring themselves to compliment Boston as a team (individual players, yes, but it was always the Indians or the Rockies who were amazing).
Also, the crew made liars out of the announcers more than once. Slo-mo does that, sometimes.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
Sure, but I feel so safe knowing the President is resolute.
Jeebus, we are in a rabbit-hole that turned into a wormhole.
-GSD
Night OKK.
TexBetsy @ 37
Chalibi? No, on second thought, he was to be president of Iran after the smoke clears. They wouldn’t give him Iraq to govern so he is going next door.
Bye lahoma and OKK.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 43
Ciao. Sonny Bono once read that word off of a cue-card and said “Ki-ay-yo”.
-GSD
Wonderful piece PW. 4 long years that
El Baradei has been saying “no solid evidence” to back up the warmongers nukes in Iran claims. Yet Bush predict there could be a “nuclear holocaust” and “WWIII”
Cheney warns Iran that there will be “serious consequences” if Iran does not comply with heir demands.
For years El Baradei has been consistently saying that there is no “hard evidedence” to back up the “nukes in Iran” claims and this is in direct conflict with what Valerie Plame Wilson claimed when asked about Iran by Keith Olberman. VPW said that there was “no doubt” that Iran had a nuclear weapons program
Would sure like to see Plame and El Baradei duke it out on this one.While Plame supports diplomacy and negotiations with Iran, her claims about Iran line up with the WMD zealots. I think El Baradei would win with the majority of American people and the rest of the world. Talk
How about on the front of USA Today stricter sanctions on “Iran’s Nukes”. No “groupthink” there. It is amazing how many times these claims have been repeated in the MSM. And tonight after Lou Dobbs yammered on and on about tough immigration standards and then
rolls over to Professor Fouad Ajami’s claims that El Baradei is a “congenital anti- American man”
If only Dobbs could be consistent in his application of tough standards.
behindthefall @ 32
It’s kinda interesting…Bobby Kennedy and JFK threw down the gauntlet at the Soviet Union…now Putin is throwing down the gauntlet that may save us.
The whole world is watching. They want us to get through this as much as we do – we are not alone on this planet. I must make my”sef” clear on this…I do not support human rights violations anywhere in the world, but if there is no world, that will be a moot point. Mind poison is mind poison. We’ve got to get together for world peace.
GordonM @ 44
Plus, the announcers were simply ignorant about a lot that was going on. I am a Sox fan anyways but (and don’t get me wrong) but since the Rockies billed themselves as the Coors Christobloods -even going so far as to put a CR[short for Christ?] on their caps, I was happy that their non-secular approach to sports and the Texas size US flag unfurled on the field didn’t end up really working.
TheraP @ 12
Seems to have already started. Olbermann had a story about Laura being criticized for wearing a scarf as a courtesy to her Muslim hosts. Apparently “some think” she should not deign to kowtow to other people’s customs.
Someone should tell them the old platitude: When in Rome, do as the Romans.
Loo Hoo. @ 33
Horror is horror.
Loo Hoo. @ 23
It was a joke in the 50’s when we “ducked and covered” under our school desks..”keep your eyes closed” so you aren’t blinded by the nuclear flash..yea right.
LS @51. As George Carlin has said “the earth is not going anywhere, humans may be extinguished” The earth will survive
Bush is going to send out Pickles as an emissary to Russia.
-GSD
J @ 50
I heard Valerie Wilson say “there’s no doubt Iran wants nukes”. That’s not really in conflict with what El Baradei is saying. There’s a huge difference between 3% enrichment (what Iran has, in a very small batch, demonstrated) and the 90% enrichment necessary for a bomb.
Steve-AR @ 55
I can remember that like it was yesterday, Steve.
Anyone make any sense of Michael Gordon’s piece on front page NYT today? He seems more than most to always have an agenda. In this case he was noting that Shiites aren’t willing to name/support Sunni police officials, thus jeopardizing US interests in developing community policing. I think what he is pushing this new idea of a tri-apartheid Iraq. That seems to be the new fall back position. And then you have the Saudi’s clobbering the British for not moving more against ME terrorism (sounds as if they are doing the US bidding, either that or they have developed a wicked case of amnesia about the fact that the bulk of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis. (In short, to act more aggressively against ME terrorists, doesn’t the world ]really need regime change and fundamental reform in Saudi Arabia?)
LS @ 51
JFK threw down the gauntlet when he said “We will stop them in Viet-naaam.” That didn’t work out so good. The “Cuban missile crisis” was defused when they secretly agreed to remove the Jupiter IRBMs from Turkey.
ccmask @ 59
Ah yes. “Bend over and kiss your ass good-bye”.
So, I finally found the interview info:
In 1999, Bush Craved Opportunity to Attack Iraq
~~~”One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief. My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it. If I have a chance to invade—if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”~~~
Bush Wanted To Invade Iraq If Elected in 2000
~~~Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow.~~~
Valerie’s book is #46 at Amazon.
More clashes between the Turkish troops and Kurds. The world really is on a tripwire.
Dickweed Bush and Bumslap Cheney have screwed the pooch in every possible way.
-GSD
Steve-AR @ 55
I think what has stuck with me the most is the “fear” of being “vaporized”…that was really scary, but…if you are dead, you are dead…so being vaporized is.. well…being vaporized…Interesting that the language “vaporized” reappeared during 9/11….the Pentagon victims were “vaporized” and could not be identified or found…the passengers on the airplanes in the WTC…were “vaporized” and could not be identified or found…Oh, yeah…the “terrorist passport” found within hours on the streets of NYC that survived the “attack”…was not “vaporized”…the woman standing in the “window” of the wreckage exactly where the plane hit..was not “vaporized”.
With what you know now, go figure.
I think the reason why candidates are campaigning so early is because it allows mericans to think that the election is right around the corner, and thus making impeachment look like a dumb option. Nothing can be further from the truth.
ccmask @ 59
Adult always think kids are clueless. We were watching nuclear tests on B&W Tv’s where they were blowing up islands, fleets of ships and “fake” towns but our school desk was going to protect us.
LS @ 66
In the mind of a child ….. I always pictured being “vaporized” as coming out of the little steam machine my mom put in my room when I had a cold. Didn’t picture myself as steam, just as me, coming out of the machine like a genie from a bottle.
I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”~~~
He was 50/50 for these predictions.
Typical loser son with an inferiority complex and a washed-out brain who was destined to fail and fail and fail.
The Bush Failure.
-GSD
LS: You left out good will being vaporized.
Valley Girl @ 63
Actually, I think the 2 most likely scenarios in which we do not attack Iran are:
2) The military says “no way”
1) Daddy puts something in Junior’s coffee one morning.
p.s. PW says: Whatever you’re hoping to accomplish, George — besides high oil prices — I don’t think you’re getting it.
However, based on links above, I think Dubya accomplished his fondest wishes and dreams, sociopathic tho they may be.
Steve-AR @ 61
new and improved! Vlad’s Vapor Rub
GordonM @ 72
and Darth? ? ? ?
GordonM @ 72
Must leave the the microwave on in Cheney’s office at the same time.
Valley Girl @ 73
So, GSD, I just saw your comment, and agree on the 50/50.
so, um, would the stern counsel from the IAEC and Vladimir Putin also apply to a Democratic candidate or president who utters they very same talking points as Darth Cheney?
if Bush is rolling the dice on a world war with belligerent rhetoric against Iran, and this is a bad thing, can you make a connection to (D) rhetoric against Iran, and how this might also be a bad thing?
RevDeb @ 76
wooden stake?
J @ 56
Or as a college prof of mine put it: when Mother Earth gets tired of us, she’ll shake us off like a dog shakes off fleas.
Richmond @ 60
Yah, I saw that article and what came to mind was the Saudis talkin’ about being aggressive against terrorism is like Junya talkin’ about using diplomacy.
Both have an unusual sense of humor.
GSD @ 65
Anyone remember watching this movie back in the early eighties when it came out?
When people talk about the environment they should stipulate an environment that sustains human life.
-GSD
Toby Wollin @ 5
At least he didn’t figure out to do an amonia watergun, as mentioned on p 75 of It Can’t Happen Here.
GSD @ 71
France basically decided they had had enough with the Bonapartes and forbade future Bonapartes from going into politics (one of them in turn became an anthropologist). Maybe it is time that we do that with the Bush family (not that I would like future shrub generations lecturing about cultural relativism).
Bush is trying to turn Pickles into Eva Peron.
-GSD
Ann in AZ @ 81
Interestingly, one of the best books on counterinsurgency is titled War of the Fleas. It turns out, it’s not so easy to shake them off.
Mad Dogs @ 82
*g*
Ann in AZ @ 81
That’s pretty much what I think could happen.
“besides high oil prices”
good summary of shrub’s policy motivations… armageddon and oil prices, oil prices and armageddon. What else is there?
Maybe this is why they granted all of the Blackwater mass murderers immunity for a mass murder in which they were the only ones culpable.. they have “proof” Iran has nukes :).. yeah, that muoooost be it…
Richmond @ 60
The Iraqis think they are in a civil war so naturally Shi’ites don’t want to arm and support a bunch of Sunnis. Petraeus and Gordon cling to the view that it is all just a sectarian conflict. The result is an inevitable collision. Petraeus and Gordon think that the Iraqis don’t understand the situation but in fact it is they who do not.
What’s this, LS?
…the woman standing in the “window” of the wreckage exactly where the plane hit..was not “vaporized”.
RevDeb @ 76
Darth’s power comes from controlling who talks to Junior. Junior takes Darth’s favored position (Junior’s a “last guy in” type), and a whole bunch of people fall in line. But it’s Junior that manages to get personal loyalty out of people. Darth, only a handful.
GSD @ 84
…or at least sustains the lives of the members of our ruling kleptocrat class… ‘course they’d still need people to steal from….
Benito Giuliani looking forward to seeing the trains come in on time.
“This is the world we live in. It’s not this happy, romantic-like world where we’ll negotiate with this one, or we’ll negotiate with that one and there will be no preconditions, and we’ll invite (Iranian President Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad to the White House, we’ll invite Osama (bin Laden) to the White House. Hillary and Obama are kind of debating whether to invite them to the inauguration or the inaugural ball.”
-GSD
Aloha, Yall!
This is serious Fuckery…
“A majority of likely voters – 52% – would support a U.S. military strike to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon, and 53% believe it is likely that the U.S. will be involved in a military strike against Iran before the next presidential election, a new Zogby America telephone poll shows.”
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1379
GordonM @ 94
GordonM- another one of my requests for Mainer updates.
How is Junior viewed in your neck of the woods?
Loo Hoo. @ 93
There is lots of video of the first Tower hit..the one with the shape of the plane…after the “fireball” abates…there is a woman standing right there, waving a shirt or something…she is standing right on the “hole” where the plane went in. How can that be, if the heat was so hot as to melt all the “steel”…it is on record…you can find it all over youtube.
ccmask @ 59
Why can’t I remember that? Could it be because I went to a small, ethnic parochial (Catholic) school? I do remember having to relearn the Pledge of Allegiance to include the phrase “under God.”
Hey All, sliiiightly OT
Thank you for the post PW.
We were standing on the corner Friday afternoon, some have been there every Friday since the war began, and one of the Code Pink ladies passed out laminated pictures of Iranian children attached to a pink string that can be worn around your neck, so now I am a 6′2′ grey haired man in pink, who knew-WOOT, I have worn everyday since then and will wear it everyday from now ’til I know Iran is safe from the horror mindless men would inflict on them.
I felt a little silly until I thought about the reason for wearing these which is to humanize the potential tragedy that is a fait acompli in Iraq. My picture is a little boy with shades and cowboy hat no different from little guys all over the world, my fervent wish and hope is that The world not permit bush his desire to attack Iran and your post PW gives me some of that hope.
You get four stars for excellence PW.
Blub @ 95
Or they could eat money and drink oil…
GSD @ 57
Ambassador Vlasic
GordonM @ 94
Midway through a PBS Moyers report a little over a week ago, I came to the conclusion that basically the Texas oil Oligarchy contacted Cheney to govern and then together they approached Bush to “run” for office as their front (but only if he would agree to what ever they said; and Bush said, all the better, I don’t want to do any real work). So once this was in place Bush was told to name Cheney to head the VP search committee, which was another fix to name Cheney himself as VP – the more vice the better in the WH.
Shrub gave Henry Hyde the medal today. Anymore, getting the medal means you are an a**hole. There’s some really funny stuff about that at Shakespeares Sister. Some were calling der Shrub President See ‘N’ Say. That was a new one for me.
CTuttle @ 97
And, as the NYT Editorial (?) noted today even knocking out one of these with a bunker buster, won’t do anything to stop the bulk of the rest of them. In short it is a ludicrous option, with horrendous consequences, and no likelihood at all of success. The last Isr*el bombing in Lebanon, indeed had the reverse effect – of empowering opposition.
bonkers @ 103
I think Harriet would be a fine choice for special emissary… wait a minute? Isn’t the sec of state a Russia spe*ial*st :P?
Richmond @ 104
That sounds plausible…he changed drastically over time…or his image changed, I should say. He has never been “ambitious”, but Cheney (unelectable) was sickeningly ambitious with an agenda with his cabal.
Valley Girl @ 98
I have not heard anything. The people I know who were Bush supporters are just not talking about politics. They just look uncomfortable and change topics. I have seen absolutely no R bumper stickers, for any office. I do see D bumper stickers for President (Kucinich, Obama, Edwards and Hillary), and one Allen sticker.
bonkers @ 103
“You’re a better man than I am, Gerkin Din!”
GSD @ 65
Lord, I wonder what darkblack will do with this … *g*
Evenin’ all !
Loo Hoo. @ 102
oil.. the new cake.
Marie Antoinette would’ve been proud.
This, LS?
I see nothing.
Petrocelli @ 110
Que Pasa, Mi Amigo! How about those World Champion BoSox! 8-)
bonkers @ 103
Ha!
Laura is oblivious. It is, however, perfectly appropriate that she cover her head “when in Rome” or elsewhere. I don’t fault her for her obliviousness at all. It is not her fault.
punaise @ 75
new-er and improved-er! Vlad’s Vapor Rub(out), as seen through Vlad’s Vapor eyes.
OT, just saw this at a site, Capital Hill Blue about active Marine being given Army National Guard uniforms before being sent to help in California.
I tried to google for any other stories but didn’t see any so take with a grain of salt.
Loo Hoo. @ 113
That is the hole, but I will have to find the actual footage…I’ll go look.
dakine01 @ 117
I believe this is illegal (but, er, what else is new!).
Mommybrain @ 117
ding!
Hey Hey, Petrocelli!
So, I’ve done my bit to promote a political conversation. (Which is why I came to FDL in the first place- the political conversations).
But now, I have to ask 2 things:
GSD- how’s the wrist?
GSD- you have revealed in the past that you do stand up comedy. So, in the same spirit as I asked GordonM for a local report… do you use the same humor in your stand-up comedy as you do here, and if so, do the Granite Staters “get it”?
Blub @ 95
Nah, they’ll just draw a line and steal from those on the other side. Once you’re past “necessity”, it’s only relative wealth that matters. Shit, these guys own vacation homes they’ve never stayed in, yachts they’ve never sailed, cars they’ve never driven… And $1000 bottles of wine the help drank while pouring them cheap shit box wines.
CTuttle @ 114
I for one am sorry that Baseball is over … how am I gonna get over my insomnia … *g*
Loo Hoo. @ 122
Hiya Loo Hoo, how’s life in Cali. ?
Are things back to normal ?
Petrocelli @ 124
Ditto, but we’ve got some F.B. to wrap ourselves in until January. Sorry, I’m a Pats fan. This season has gotta be hard on the rest. But the Brady-Manning brawl should be an amazing one.
Richmond @ 106
A Zogby poll should be done to see how many favor a military strike on Pakistan which already has nooks and A.Q. and a Military dictator who gained power in a coup sitting precariously on the throne with Islamic Fundamentalists poised to overthrow him.
Oh, nevermind, they’re our friends, no, I mean, the dictator is our friend. I do not condone pre-emptive war, I’m just making a point. If the media drummed it up, I’m certain the public would be on board. It would be a another slam dunk.
Did you see that d*ckhead on Countdown mischaracterize Tenet’s slam dunk and get away with it?
dakine01 @ 117
Basically, the only difference is one has the USMC logo stamped on a pocket and the tags sewn on, otherwise, they’re identical… The soft caps are different tho…! ;-)
Petrocelli @ 125
I thought CT made a vow at FDL not to talk about bb until the opening season next year.
dakine01 @ 118
If it’s a true story, which does seem plausible, I hope it is proven and makes headlines.
Petrocelli @ 124
While I, for one, will be glad to go to bed at a decent hour and still sometimes be able to say ‘Hi’ to Suzanne!
Valley Girl @ 129
My deal with RBG, was not to count down the days to Spring Training or Opening Day…! ;-)
CTuttle @ 128
I think there are some serious legal issues here. I am no lawyer, but isn’t there a major issue with the active armed service members policing inside the U.S.? (Isn’t this in part what Nazism was all about). Like those “lost” nukes which just accidently got strapped to the plane headed to be ME transit base in Louisiana. I sure as hell would like to know who gave the marines the uniforms to wear and oversaw their transfer to California for this.
Richmond @ 127
I like both Brady & Manning … should be fun …
Loo Hoo. @ 130
See my 128… It’s a non-story, IMHO…!
CTuttle @ 133
Well, I am disappointed that rbg did not go further in setting up the deal.
GSD @ 87
Pickles isn’t as lifelike as Evita’s perfectly preserved corpse. Especially the wig.
LS @ 119
http://thewebfairy.com/911/edna/liberty.htm
CTuttle @ 133
Congrats CT & BoSox fans … they came together like a true championship team and never looked back !
Can we get Terry Francona to manage The Democrats ?!! *g*
Dru @ 138
Speaking of shoes, I won a great pair of black cloudwalker heels tonite on ebay. I’m so excited!
CTuttle @ 136
well.. that’s the one thing about being ruled by a cabal of supervillains: you never know what to believe, but you know it’ll never be boring :P
Petrocelli @ 126
Yup. Back to reality tomorrow. FEMA is in the Community Center next to my school, so we will be required to show ID to (Blackwater???) officers before we can enter the parking lot and will need parking passes for the next however long.
Petrocelli @ 134
Both are Republicans. Brady in particular had a special event with Dubya a couple years ago. Great quarterback, but a dumb guy.
snowbird42 @ 13
Is it true that Laura wanders about the White House at night, washing her hands over and over again, saying “Out, damned spot” ??
CTuttle @ 135
Do you really think it’s a non-story if active duty marines are being told to pose as CA Army National Guard so that it looks like there were plenty of Guard troops available to do their normal jobs?
GordonM @ 132
Hey Dood !
We had a tremendous autumn … how about you ?
Richmond @ 133
Actually, in natural disasters, federal troops are often utilized… I’ve been volunteered to assist in fighting fires before! We’re barred from utilizing arms against Americans on American Soil, that’s were the individual State NGs’ can be used(i.e. quelling riots…)!
hackworth @ 143
So true, alas. But, unlike Schilling, Brady at leastndidn’t allow himself to get bullied into politicing for the other side.
hackworth @ 143
I don’t know about being a Republican but a dumb guy usually doesn’t wind up with a Giselle Bundchen.
Just sayin’
Blub @ 142
OT on this thread, but relevant to Siun’s last thread. From the NYT:
CTuttle @ 147
I guess I would want to know what their tasks were. Were they allowed to have their arms (as in crowd control) or was it just pitching in?
LS @ 139
try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ACXRGROK4
Mad Dogs @ 152
So…did they offer them fake immunity to get them to squawk? WTF???
dakine01 @ 149
You just wanted to type Giselle Bundchen. ;)
Richmond @ 152
A very pertinent question, one that should be followed up on…!
Richmond @ 153
Kathryn in MA @ 154
!!!
LS @ 155
squawk about what? they’re the only ones accused of being culpable and they all got immunity, apparently. You grant people immunity so that they implicate others.. bigger fish, whatever.. you don’t grant all of the suspects immunity. This isn’t a South African truth commission, for gosh’s sake :P
CTuttle @ 148
Bush took care of that technicality of US Military shooting US citizens..
Wiki
Whatever you’re hoping to accomplish, George — besides high oil prices — I don’t think you’re getting it.
What makes you so sure – they get away with everything else since they stole the 2000 election. Don’t kid yourself – there are powerful political/economic interests driving this – chimpy is not really our problem.
High oil prices and BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to the military-industrial complex will justify unilateral action to the criminal cabal behind this administration.
In the process, they get an “added bonus” – undermining the fiscal integrity of the Federal government, thereby setting the fiscal policies of this nation for generations to come.
All while they get rich beyond avarice – say what you like – sounds like “mission accomplished” to me.
slightly O/T, but. . .
in the land of PLAINLY-INTENDED
IRONY, sen. leahy will hold a
senate judiciary committee hearing
this wed. — on FISA. . .
some times, the truth
is stranger than fiction:
it’s a hearing into the abuses
we’ve suffered at the hands
of government spooks, on
halloween, no less!
hearing title:
he he!
p e a c e
Steve, I’m glad I retired in ‘05! That is serious fuckery…! 8-(
Dumb guys get hot chicks all the time – especially if they are handsome and well-built.
Funny guys who are not handsome sometimes get hot chicks too.
For the not-so-rich, famous or handsome, its always been the same old story – its about confidence.
nolo @ 162
Just my best guess – if leahy and gang wanted to actually do something about the abuse of power, treason, war crimes, and crimes against humanity – they had plenty of other opportunities.
I hope for the best, but realistically, does anyone really think the “opposition party” has demonstrated they care?
LS @ 155
If authority didn’t exist then I don’t see why the DOJ/FBI investigation should be hindered in any way.
Blub @ 159
Perhaps what LS was referring to is a tactic I believe the Supreme Court ruled was legal. That is, law enforcement types can lie during an interrogation and it isn’t illegal.
Sorta like:
“Sure dude, you’ve got immunity. No problemo. Now tell us what really happened.”
People thought ten months ago “Wait till Waxman, Leahy and Conyers are committee chairs, then we’ll see heads roll!” And what is the result? More of the same with the Bush crime family continually winning the public debate thanks to the corruption and complicity of a media that would make TASS blush. Heads are not rolling and no one is being held accountable. With a very few exceptions (none of whose voices are heard in the MSM)there is no profile in courage in today’s crop of mediocrity. The Republicans are surely thugs and theives but the Democrats are nothing more than prima donas and posers.
Blub @ 159
Ummm….*g*…I think you are saying what I think I’m saying..
LS @ 154
And should fake immunity count any more that a fake ticket to a world series game? Oh yes, I forgot we live in the Bush wonderland of mirror imagery where fake counts as real, war is seen to be peace etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1X7yihe3Ak
I won’t back down.
Bluetoe @ 168
Your points are valid – but chimpy doesn’t “win” the public debate – his approval ratings are, evidently, permanently in the toilet.
The criminal cabal doesn’t care, neither do democrat leaders, and the MSM knows that we still support the advertisers that finance the whole charade anyhow – why should they care if they lose the debate?
The money still rolls in…
Valley Girl @ 63
Thanks, VG. Do you recall or does anyone here remember something about a plan drafted before 9/11 to assure a successful presidency? by being a war president? Which was then found somewhere in DC as if the person who was conducting the meeting or planning to just forgot and left it at a restaurant? I know I read this somewhere long before the 9/11 and Iraq invasion. Anyone? The suspicion was that it was Rove’s plan to shore up the lackluster first year of Bush’s presidency.
Richmond @ 86
Jolly idea, but I fear our stodgy old constitution prohibits blood taint.
Kathryn in MA @ 154
Never saw any of this before, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Marilyn In Texas @ 144
Nah, that’s Barney.
Who’s on first — Yes! Kron[y]gard!
Statewater Security comedy shock troops…
Marilyn In Texas @ 173
ooooooooooh… people are “ticklish” about 9/11 around here – but the majority of Americans have questions about what we were told.
Look at it this way – they did not steal the 2000 election to “do the will of the people.”
Great crimes demand even greater criminality!
CTuttle @ 157
And why not just wear their USMC uniforms. They are welcome here. Why the deception?
And CTuttle, have you taken some kind of an exclamation point vow?
Marilyn In Texas @ 173
Yeah, I remember. I think it was Rove’s stuff. It’s out there.
SunnyNobility @ 174
But hasn’t the constitution been declared a “damn piece of paper?”
OT..I think the Obama camp is having a melt down..This from John A…
link
It’s gotten so bad that it is kinda sad. But better to find out now than in the General election.
Marilyn In Texas @ 173
was it by a biographer of Bush’s who was replaced because he got things “wrong?”
Loo Hoo. @ 175
Oh oh – christy proclaimed that the official story must be true, so – like, well, it’s gotta be, right?
behindthefall @ 28
Indeed, I’ll never forget it. My parents had a rare argument – Daddy was with the Baltimore Sun and called Mother to tell her to pack up the family and drive us due west as far as we could. She refused to leave without him and that was the end of that, happily.
Bluetoe @ 168
Fitz got Scoots, Dubya let him off. Scoots lost his job, Rove’s out, Ashcroft out, Gonzo out, Three lying ass press secs out, Rummy out, Delay out, Top Gun out, Foley out, Craig hangs on their necks like an albatross. They’ve been on defense a little bit.
Frustration abounds. No contempt for ignoring subpoenas, no impeachment, no stopping the war machine – profiteering. Disappointment with Reid and Pelosi…
Petrocelli @ 146
littlebear @ 178
It’s really hard, but you have to look at it closely…we have to, no matter how bad it hurts..and it does hurt..
Leave no stone unturned.
hackworth @ 186
And the funny thing is that so many people blog that it is der chimpfurher that is “incompetent” and corrupt…
Loo Hoo. @ 178
Heh, Both, RBG and Suz, have made me restrain my ways… In regards to the uniforms, they will usually provide us uniforms to combat fires, since we were likely to ruin our own! Particularly, since we are responsible for purchasing and keeping them up after our initial issue in Basic…!
GordonM @ 176
hackworth @ 186
Nazi leadership changed continually from 1933 to 45 yet the machine rolled on and on until it was ground to dust.
LS @ 188
You’re right – and across America more people have questions than accept the official story.
In some of the self-proclaimed liberal blogs – even questioning it is not allowed.
Gratefully, we can at least post these comments at FDL – I give christy and jane a lot of credit for that – it is flamed and banned at other “liberal” superblogs.
Its not really supported here either.
A.Citizen @ 10
Yeah, I am gonna. It’s only a speech and remains to be validated by action, but it speaks to me.
littlebear @ 180
“Quaint” is what the Geneva convention is called now; maybe that works for the Constitution as well. Except for the Federalists who basically want to rewrite the Constitution Oral History document (what ever they say goes).
Richmond @ 195
Wasn’t jeff gannon/guckert giving “oral history” on all of those overnights?
GordonM @ 187
Ice on the ponds, eh ?
We’re gonna get 66 degrees for Halloween … might even be able to see the kids’ costumes … *g*
It’s been a l-o-n-g Indian Summer here in Toronto … and a long autumn … yes, my love for winter has fallen on the rocks, why do you ask ?!! *g*
littlebear @ 195
LOL ;-*
I don’t believe that Iran is seeking nukes for electricity- I believe that they want bombs.
I don’t want a prez who would automatically swallow Iran’s story- nor do I want one who starts droppin bombs on general principles.
The threat of adding a nation to the nuclear family is quite real and should be addressed. We should not just shrug our shoulders and say “what the hell”.
It’s out there if you look..During the run up to the election, Bush was hot to talk about an Iraq war and his handlers had to tell him to STFU. During the transition, the Bushit’s didn’t want to hear any intel except about Iraq and war planning began shortly after Bush took office.
As one wag said “If yer gonna be the wartime president- you’d better win the fuckin war”
Am I the only one who watch Dodd on with the Pumpkin and wished the Senator would have said,
“You know Tim, the German media played a huge role in spreading the Nazi propaganda … let’s be smarter, huh ?!!
rwcole @ 199
No one is “shrugging their shoulders” and saying “what the hell” – absolutely no one.
I don’t know where the outrage was when North Korea was actually screaming to the world, “HEY LOOK AT ME – WE ARE DEVELOPING NUCLEAR WEAPONS”
If you think that that is what this is all about – that’s your choice – you are wrong, but at least be honest with your rhetoric.
rwcole @ 198
But again there is this strange push pull at play. The Rethug-cons wanted to pull out of the nuclear treaties and to encourage all these states to dev their own nuclear capabilities (more money for the military-industrial-complex), then they want to bomb the hell out of them (more money for the M-I-C), then they want to rebuild the bombed states (more money for the M-I-C)and then sell them arms to safeguard themselves (more M-I-C). It is all circular.
God bless Jon Stewart.
littlebear @ 196
Gannyguck was a two-fer. How could Rove refuse? Fake reporter by day – Oral reports by night. Specialized as a top to Rove’s fat bottom.
If you have a group of people POUNDING on us saying “These are the people to fear.” Day in and day out. Then when there is an attack, ANY kind of attack from ANYONE here in the US.
Where will the first place they will want to attack? Where they have been told the attack might be coming from.
So someone sitting around in the White House strategy room says, ‘Keep the focus on Iran so that if someone attacks we will have a good “known enemy” to send our bombs to.
It’s like they are watching the last season of 24 to suggestions on what the Americans expect.
bear
I AM BEING perfectly honest
rwcole @ 199
El-Baradei (IAEA) said today…there is no evidence that Iran is attempting to build nukes.. Who ya gonna believe? Bush/Cheney or the IAEA, knowing what you know now???? Furthermore, if they wanted nukes, they would just buy them, not build them. Consider the source of the misinformation. Iran is full of oil, W and crew want it, that is what they do, they go after the oil.
rwcole @ 201
They are winning – BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS are totally unaccounted, the military industrial complex (of which oil is a major component) is making money hands-over fist (on top of what they steal) and the war has provided justification and cover for all the rest of the criminality and destruction of the US Constitution.
To the criminal cabal behind this administration, it is indeed, “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!”
ccmask @ 59
Lined up in the halls, crouched in a ball, heads down, in rows against the walls. Phew, hadn’t thought of that in years, but scary then.
Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill said Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11. Of course, Paul O’Neill only lasted two years with Bush.
littlebear @ 181
Good point. How 20th century of me.
Petrocelli @ 202
I was distracted by “here” every 2 seconds. Other than that, he’s on the right track in general, but Russert caught him pretty good…I do love Dodd, and would vote for him in a nanosecond.
rwcole @ 208
Absolutely no one is shrugging their shoulder and saying, “what the hell!’ No in in this country and no one in the global community.
Saying otherwise is intellectually dishonest – do you not know better or are you intentionally misrepresenting?
LS – RE: the woman waving in the window.
The airplanes fuel is in the wings. It’s close to kerosene (diesel). It doesn’t explode like gasoline. The take is that the (fairly heavy) fuel got soaked up in the (very flimsy, by sky-scraper standards) insulation on the i-beams. Kerosene, though harder to ignite, burns hotter than gasoline. When it finally caught, it had soaked down the building, and down to the girders.
I’m (seriously) not taking sides, but it took a long time before the buildings collapsed – so it was not an explosion. Therefor, the woman waving in the window is not a contradiction to the establishment story.
The Trade Center was built using very unusual techniques for a skyscraper (and my grandfather was a concrete engineer, so I’ve heard a thing or two about building skyscrapers).
If you want to find something weird from an engineer’s standpoint, look at WTC7.
rwcole @ 198
El Baradei has flatly stated that he sees no sign of weaponization of Nuclear material, subsequently, why take Shrub’s assertions over Iran’s? Along those lines, Egypt is now looking at civilian Nuclear Reactors…
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/T…..ants/7499/
Loo Hoo. @ 175
More links in this link=
http://www.911revisited.com/links.html
CTuttle @ 216
Yup. The Adminstration lies repeatedly. Boioing.
Here’s a sobering poll on how a majority of Americans support attacking Iran.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1379
They know that if they keep up the propaganda, catapult the propaganda, they will win the “debate” with the complicity of a corrupted msm media.
And we thought blogging would wake the nation to the crimes of this administration. For those that have dual citizenship it looks like it won’t be long before you have to use it.
littlebear @ 165
i guess i DO think he is doing
all that the law — and the political
realities — will allow him to do.
unfortunately, he is constrained
by adherence to therule of law,
unlike the cheneys and bushes
of this world. . . though i
do hear the frustration. . .
p e a c e
bear
You are being provacative. I said I don’t think we should ignore the threat- if you disagree- give some arguments- otherwise quit attacking me- it’s boring
Nolo, at what point do you recognize the fact that the system has been so gamed that the phrase “rule of law” is nothing more than a rationale for inertia.
Night everyone. I’ve missed being here. Nice to see old friends – and the community growing! (Alas, the issues never seem to go away).
rwcole @ 199
You can legally brew beer in this country. You can’t legally make moonshine. There’s less difference between the two than there is between what Iran has been able to do and what they are being accused of doing.
If a nation is at the early stage of enrichment, how could one tell if the intention was weapons or electricity?
Richmond @ 106
Amen
I think those 52% have had the wool pulled over there eyes by the massive propaganda effort demonizing Iran, and what is really sad, and a crime is the fact that Iran was ready to negotiate in a very real way in 2003.
http://www.associatedcontent.c…..ation.html
nolo @ 220
Respectfully – saying that he is contrainted by “the rule of law” and cannot go after those that do not follow the law makes no sense, cuz, like – if someone broke the law, it is within the rule of law to go after them, right?
The democratic leadership chooses not to – actually, not following the “rule of law” at all, right?
We are on the same side on this one, but I am not expressing frustration – just trying to point out the fallacy of letting the dems off the hook because “they are doing the best they can” and are “following the rule of law.”
Not frustrated or hostile at all and not trying to be insulting – but we do need to talk about how irrational this.
rwcole @ 221
Not attacking you – just saying that proclaiming anyone is “shrugging their shoulders” and saying “what the hell” is absolutely not true.
But if you think so – why don’t you provide the linky?
Sorry for the repeat, my head was not connected to my fingers.
GordonM @ 216
Burning kerosene melts steel girders?
Steel with what, a meltpoint of some 2,500F, depending on the mix and make of the steel, and the THICKNESS of it, on the girders?
I don’t think so.
Aside from that, there’s enuff info to warrant skepticism of the MSM explanations, and warrant looking into ’series of explisions’ after plane hits, and BIG BANG at street level (described as thermonuclear by some) that would disrupt the base and cause what LOOKS like a staged demolition . . . .
Also, JP Fuel burns at about 1,800F from what I’ve read?
I am not a scientist, but there’s enuff info out there to be quite skeptical of wha’ts been fed to the masses about 911 and the Towers.
http://www.911weknow.com/index…..p;Itemid=9
rwcole @ 221
What is wrong with pointing out that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is shrugging their shoulders and saying, “what the hell?”
That is dishonestly framing what is happening – people are concerned and more rational, honest leadership would probably allow something meaningful to be done about it.
If you really believe the framing you use – you provide the linky – I am just pointing out that it is intellectually dishonest to frame the issue this way.
New Trex Up
It’s very simple really. They are progressing with their agenda no matter what truth is thrown in their faces…no matter what. How the hell much proof does one need for Goddess’s sake???
Everyday…more egg in everyone’s face…oh..maybe this is it..maybe that is it..maybe this is it…
Goddagnabbit. It is it. It is happening, and they need to be stopped, and they will be stopped. Sunlight is everywhere, they are trying to hide, but you know what. They are hot outta luck. The posse is hot on their trail.. they want cowboy diplomacy..well America “speaks Cowboy”, and we are not going to lie down and take this crappola anymore. FEMA…blatantly lying to the country…Lying us into war…WTF. No more. This has to, and will, stop.
littlebear @ 228
No, it’s not. The prosecutor breaks the law, the case is thrown out. That is, when the prosecutor isn’t an enemy of the judge. If the judge is ideologically on the other side, the case has to be both squeaky clean and of such compelling public interest that the judge must resist his personal interests.
The wild, wild West never was, and never will be.
You don’t have to melt steel, just heat it to weaken it and the load bearing beams fail.
larue @ 230
I have spent years looking at this…people are afraid to look at what evidence there is. You must investigate and look at everything. Do not believe anything anyone tells you about the official story. Just investigate. Listen to all of the testimony of the firefighters. Listen to those who survived. Listen. Keep an open mind. Leave no stone unturned. We owe that to those that perished. Find out.
Sandman @ 235
Listen to the experts. They are there. You want to believe this government? You want to believe people like FEMA????
LS @ 237
I don’t believe FEMA, but what I said is fact. Blacksmiths used this knowledge over 100 years ago.
GordonM @ 235
But they haven’t even tried to bring anything – I know what you are saying and we are in agreement on almost everything.
I am just saying that the “rule of law” demanded action and that we see inaction on the part of the democrats. If they at least tried, I could see you point – but I don’t see them trying.
larue @ 230
I’m only a BA in Math, but from a family of PhDs in engineering and physics. I’m not saying there’s not a lot that’s suspicious. I’m saying that a woman waving in the window after the plane crashed means nothing. I’m saying that the collapse of the towers themselves (once you realize that they were built rather shoddily) is at least moderately believable.
The truths of physics are often counter-intuitive (that’s something you learn in lower-division physics).
Most of the arguments for 9/11 conspiracy come off no better (to someone with at least college level training in physics) than the arguments for Intelligent Design. There are good arguments for funny business but, alas, this is not one of them.
The weakest arguments on the establishment side are about building 7 and the flight in PA. I don’t necessarily accept their arguments about the towers and the Pentagon, but the counter arguments are strong, if not entirely convincing.
Sandman @ 239
So is that why this woman is standing in your “inferno” that was so hot it weakened the steel?
http://www.takeoverworld.info/…..ng_wtc.jpg
littlebear @ 239
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have no excuses left. I have confidence in Sanders and Feingold. The rest are in between, but I think Leahy and Waxman are towards the top. (I was wrong about Pelosi, so maybe I’m wrong on them too, but I still have some confidence in those two.)
littlebear @ 241
It took hours to weaken the steel. Grow up.
littlebear @ 240
So, I guess he doesn’t qualify:
http://911research.wtc7.net/es…..Jones.html
Also, how do you explain that 3 steel-structured buildings all collapsed for the first time in history on the same day…I don’t think so.
2, hit by airplanes, one was not. It was “pulled”, per Silverstein’s statement. How was it pulled without demolition detonators pre-placed? Oh come on.
President Bush’s disturbingly flip comment last Wednesday about Iran and World War III not only revealed his apparent comfort when discussing global conflagration. Bush’s gaffe also showed the common vision between himself, the man most likely to succeed him as head of the Republican Party and those who advise them both. For George Bush, Rudy Giuliani and the likes of Norman Podhoretz, the only dispute about “world war” is whether we’re already fighting it and what number we’re on.
For the details, see:
“Bush and Giuliani on the Next World War.”
LS says:
October 29th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I have spent years looking at this…people are afraid to look at what evidence there is. You must investigate and look at everything. Do not believe anything anyone tells you about the official story. Just investigate. Listen to all of the testimony of the firefighters. Listen to those who survived. Listen. Keep an open mind. Leave no stone unturned. We owe that to those that perished. Find out.
Not to get into this here, just an observation. I have worked in construction as an excavator all my life and have seen many dynamite shots both in buildings and underground for trenching in rock, when those towers came down it sure as hell looked like charges were set, and building 7 was never touched, the only way it could come down is set charges..just sayin, it is not an axe I grind very often.
LS @ 244
As I said, the weakest establishment arguments are about building 7 and the PA crash. Do you read before replying?
And are you familiar with the claim that the heating fuel tanks for building 7 were on the roof and therefor susceptible to burning embers? And the photos that support that?
Oh come on is not an argument.
Petrocelli @ 202
Wow! That would’ve been killer. The room woulda been very quiet after that. But, what was up with him saying ‘here’ or ‘hear’ over and over?
GordonM @ 248
That is in no way the cause of that building coming down…I know it is hard for me to accept the complications and logistics of what conspiracy theorists but there is something that smells about 911 that does not sit right with me.
GSD @ 49
Odd? He was the son of two Italian immigrants, as I recall. Sonny often pulled a Tommy Smothers act.
J @ 50
Here’s my take on that. There are reports that the CIA actually passed over to the Iranians the schematics (with a subtle flaw) for a nuclear bomb triggering device. That really doesn’t mean that they have a “program” but that they are certainly willing to take information like this and perhaps use it down the road if needed. I think almost any country that faces outside threats would. In addition, a small country could broker that information back to someone like the US or Russia…saying “we have evidence that this group is proliferating weapons” and hand it back in exchange for some $$$.
Ironically, if the Iranians had discovered that the CIA was behind the “trigger-scam” that’s exactly what I would have done. I would have gone to Al Baradei and the IAEA and said “We were approached about these triggers…and arranged to acquire them SO THAT WE COULD DISCOVER WHO was proliferating them. Here are the plans and the identities of the people who gave them to us.” They might also make sure that they publicize the “unveiling of black-market nuke dealers”. That would then blowback on the US and CIA.
[ Now, of course, they’d also keep a set of the plans themselves.]
BTW The US asserts that we don’t have any programs to develop biological weapons or nerve gas any more…but one can bet that we haven’t purged from the files all information and plans on how to accomplish these. I would bet that most countries in Europe and the erstwhile Warsaw pact also has lots of plans tucked away that deal with the same things.
But Al Baradei is talking about evidence of active programs that go beyond civilian use. He still is clearly concerned that there MAY BE such evidence. That’s why he believes that they have to keep up an inspections and enforcement regime.
So maybe he and Plame are not so far apart as the Media has portrayed ~ they simply have dfiferent thresholds about what constitutes a “program” vs. “active program”.
LS @ 51
And it was Bush that made allusions to Putin’s continued cooperation with the Iranians “starting WWIII”. Most people thought that Bush was saying “we’ll attack Iran”. But a War with Iran wouldn’t be WWIII…though it would certainly end the volunteer Military and require a draft to support. It would also likely trigger, not a recession, but a worldwide Depression since most of the Persian Gulf would be in such turmoil that no oil could be shipped from the region for years. The Bushbots seem utterly unaware that much of the disenfranchised population of the Gulf Emirates (Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE) are actually Shiites with close Iranian ties…not Sunni. A war with Iran would destabilize these regimes and cut off oil production and shipments. Plus short of invading and holding large areas of Southeast Iran the Straits of Hormuz would be susceptable to blockage. The Gulf would be a deathtrap for the US Navy. There would be no easy land exit for the US Military in Iraq as it explodes in Anti-American riots, since Kuwait would be in conflagration.
Russia would actually benefit short-term from such foolishness…the prices for Russian gas and oil would skyrocket. But Putin isn’t as insane and maniachal as those advising Bush, it seems. He doesn’t want to plunge the world into a chaotic spiral in which…ultimately no nation state may survive.
When Bush talks of WWIII it’s clear he’s not talking about a US-Iran conflict, but one in which many major nations are on opposite sides. I’m not sure who would willingly side with the US in such a conflict other than Israel. Such a War would, quite simply plunge most of Europe and Asia into darkness. And remember “If you aren’t with us, you are against us”. No one alloowed to sit on the sidelines in BushWorld.
Sandman @ 236
At what temp?
And still, there’s more, SO much more that’s not sufficiently explained.
I’ll not look for a point by point arguement here, others have done that before us two . . just being adamant I don’t think we know all there is to know about the 9/11 Incidents.
Ann in AZ @ 53
How dare she bend to these Shar’ia laws…what would David “Oh The Horror”-witz say! Why didn’t she show some good old American spine and go in dressed in revealing lingeree, or at the very least have Condi offer some fashion advice. But maybe she’s decided that the hijab-less tours of Condi and Karen Hughes weren’t deferential enough to the fundamentalists…and Laura is nothing if not deferential to Fundamentalists.
Steve-AR @ 182
Maybe they are trying to embrace the Transgender Voters? So there will be a BIG Announcement from Obama on November 14th in San Francisco! See…it makes perfect sense!
GordonM @ 216
There’s a ton of scientific studies on what happened in the Structural Engineer literature. They point out the collapse didn’t require heat to a “melting temperature” since much, much lower “bending temperatures” can cause structural failure. After that the overburden tonnage of the building causes collapse.
The key to understanding the collapse of WTC7, according to these studies, is to realize that the WTC complex was essentially a single building with a shared 7-story underground base, and an additional foundation of another 8 stories. When the two towers collapsed they basically removed the substructural “flying buttresses” that helped support the other WTC units…further damage was done by debris blown through the substories at tornado force winds.
That’s why the WTC7 collapsed from the base…the point of maximal structural failure…rather than from the higher impact points as in WTC1 and WTC2. The damage to the foundation was also why they had to demolish other WTC units, though these were still left standing…they were deemed hazardous and had to be brought down. Hard to think that anyone that wanted to destroy all these units by demolitions would have failed on these other ones and left all the evidence behind to be found.
To go with the Avignon government, here is Picassco’s Les d’moiselles d’Avignon. It seems appropriate as Picasso’s artwork is a picture of whores.
Drat, fire 2
http://images.google.com/imgre…..e&cd=2
An Structural Engineering analysis of Why the WTC Tower 1 & 2 Collapsed….and it doesn’t require melting temperatures of steel.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journa…..-0112.html
Here is a useful site with reference to the scientific studies that relate to the 9/11 events.
Debunk 9/11 Myths
In addition to cinnamonape’s refs, here’s a more recent faq from National Institutes of Standards and Technology (NIST) that addresses a lot of counterarguments directly. Question 10 deals with the situation of people who were seen at the openings of impact zone floors. (Many could be seen in tv and news photos that day, I well recall.) A thing to bear in mind is that the buildings each had a cross-section of one acre, so it was evidently possible to be away from the immediate flare.
For sure there’s nothing original I could say on the subject, but this point, which could probably be verified by a dogged search through accounts of fires and other incidents in modern structures, stands out for me:
My stumbling blocks concern the events before the actual day. But maybe some other time.
Bluetoe @ 223
this is a very illuminating line of
argument, bluetoe. for i am
certain you do not intend it in
this way, but you must see that
declaring the rule of law to be
no more than a cover for “inertia“,
is to agree with the neo-con notion that
we should bend, or break, the rules when
the wheels of justice turn too slowly
for our tastes. . . that is how we came
to have torture memos, and rendition policies.
now — to be clear — part of the wisdom
of our justice system is that it moves at
a deliberate [glacial?] pace. it takes
the time to get it right, most of the
time. . . so i will respectfully, but
vehemently, disagree with the idea that
leahy, conyers, waxman, whitehouse, tierney,
schumer, et al. are doing nothing.
i, for one, believe the principles must
be adhered to, even if it yields an unfair
advantage to those who would disregard them
to acheive their ends — cheney, bush, gonzo,
rice, rummy, wolfie — and on and on. . .
i really enjoyed catching up on
this thread, little bear and bluetoe!
thanks!
p e a c e
Bingo! That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? I was saying as far back as 1988 that the Bush family regards the entire country as a private fiefdom for themselves and their friends to plunder at will. The only place I was wrong is that they regard the entire WORLD as a private fiefdom.
Oil men make money when the price goes up. Those with oil interests have zero motivation to keep prices down. It’s not an accident or an unforeseen circumstance that oil is now over $90/barrel — it’s all by design.
Bush/Cheney seek to dehumanize people in their invented axis of evil. Here is who and what they want to attack.
http://conflictiran.blogspot.c…..eople.html
http://conflictiran.blogspot.c…..-life.html
But frankly, I think Iran should have the bomb. In this I agree with historian Emmanuel Todd who sees it as creating a balance of power.
if there was no wmds then why do we fight this undeclared war with lies. yeah we fight terrorism but dont call it a war because congress didnt declare it is more accuratly a struggle or a fight against terrorism