On Friday Donald Rumsfeld arrived in France to give a speech – but he had to leave via a back door that went directly into the US Embassy and then quickly scampered out of the country. Why? He was afraid French prosecutors would act on an indictment brought by the Center for Constitutional Rights, the International Federation for Human Rights and several other NGOs.
The criminal complaint states that because of the failure of authorities in the United States and Iraq to launch any independent investigation into the responsibility of Rumsfeld and other high-level U.S. officials for torture despite a documented paper trail and government memos implicating them in direct as well as command responsibility for torture – and because the U.S. has refused to join the International Criminal Court – it is the legal obligation of states such as France to take up the case.
In this case, charges are brought under the 1984 Convention against Torture, ratified by both the United States and France, which has been used in France in previous torture cases.
While Rumsfeld had apparently gotten out of France before an arrest, the case can be prosecuted since he was in the country when it was filed. As Larry Johnson notes:
One thing is certain, Rummy is now part of an exclusive but growing club of Amcits who face legal peril in foreign lands because they participated (allegedly) in some kind of torture, disappearance, or other violation of international human rights. That means he won’t be going on any foreign junkets. Once outside the safe confines of the United States he can be snatched up and hauled off to France to face questioning.
You can listen to an interview with the attorney’s bringing the charge at Democracy Now and follow the case at the site for the International Federation for Human Rights. CCR is asking everyone to fax or call the French prosecutors and ask them to bring Rummy to justice – please take a minute to do so.
While Rumsfeld was playing hide and seek with French law, children in Iraq are not playing at all – in fact, this week the UN news service IRIN reported that children are being held in Iraqi prisons – and they too are being tortured:
“Children are being treated as adults in Iraqi prisons and our investigations have shown that they are being abused and tortured,” said Khalid Rabia’a, a spokesman for the Prisoners’ Association for Justice (PAJ).
“Our investigation started after families brought their five sons to our organisation looking for psychological help for their children who were recently released from prison, and what we found out was shocking,” Rabia’a added.
(snip)“The five children showed signs of torture all over their bodies. Three had marks of cigarettes burns over their legs and one couldn’t speak as the shock sessions affected his conversation,” Rabia’a said. “It is against international law that protects children and we call for interventions in all Iraqi prisons to save the lives of these children.”
(snip)
However, another senior official from the ministry, who requested anonymity and who has been supplying the NGO with daily updates, told IRIN that every Iraqi prison is holding at least 20 children and they are all suffering abuse.Rabia’a said the NGO had informants in many Iraqi prisons but since they did not want to be named, they could not go to court and prove the abuses were taking place.
At least 220 children are believed to be held in Iraqi prisons. IRIN requested permission to visit the prisons said to be holding child prisoners but the request was denied.
Along with ongoing coverage of this horror, GorillasGuides has links to a new and important book, Administration of Torture: A Documentary Record from Washington to Abu Ghraib and Beyond scheduled for publication in early November.
Our country’s use of torture – in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and hidden secret rendition sites has given the lie to claims that we wanted to save the Iraqi people from the crimes of Saddam. It is vital that we join Michael Ratner of the CCR in calling for international prosecutions of those responsible:
“We will only stop once the American authorities involved in the torture program are brought to justice. Donald Rumsfeld must understand that he has nowhere to hide. A torturer is an enemy of humanity.”
Image from the International Federation for Human Rights.
UPDATE: Several firepups suggested calling French Consulates in the US to urge prosecution of Rummy. A full list can be found here.
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hey
hey hey
Hi Siun
Again, I am ashamed of my Country’s actions.
Ruffian @ 4
As am I.
Siunshine!
It is my fervent prayer that all war criminals will be prosecuted and incarcerated.
Good evening all!
Jeeze. Can someone here drag him back to France? :-P
Apparently the lawyers tried to nab him at his speech but he slipped out a back door into the US Embassy!
This shameful miscreant must be hauled before the bar of international justice and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I yearn to see him in chains….
So Rummy can’t enter several countries for fear of being arrested and tried for war crimes? Apparently that doesn’t mean a thing to Stanford University.
Through their Hoover Institute, Stanford’s become a “green zone” for the neocons.
Any alums out there might want to consider sending any donations considered for their alma mater, to FDL and Blue America, and let the University know in the process. It is certain the money would be put to better use here.
Run Rummy run! We should have told the French he is like a greasy pig at the state fair.
You go to court with the rummy you have…
very good news. i just hope rummy gets a fair trial *g*
is it ok to use english? or should i ask a friend to help me make a french translation?
bonkers @ 12
The Clinton School/Library in Little Rock is working hard for a place at the Neo Con table these days.. Tim the vote Grifter Griffin, John Dr. Yes Yoo and KKKarl Rove to name a few invited guest speakers.
Selise – I see no reason not to write in English – since they recipients will be able to read English (sadly we’re the only country where most folks do not read more than one language) and I think it will be powerful for Americans to ask the French judiciary for help.
bonkers @ 12
My bold and it should tell you all you need to know about Stanford. That and the fact that Condi Rice was Provost at Stanford.
edit: Bottomline, Stanford administration are not especially liberal in orientation
Is there any real possibility that Rummy will be prosecuted?
How much is the bounty?
Is the poster up down at the post office yet?
Eureka and Bonkers – seems like both locations should hear from us!
If I understood the folks on Democracy Now last week.. Once the charges were placed in France, they are never dropped.
Siun @ 10
Ratz!
Solai – charges have been filed against him in Sweden, Argentina, now France – Germany refused to file but referred the case to Spain which is very good about such prosecutions … his travel map is shrinking.
Exactly Eureka – which is why we should be asking them to follow through.
If they really wanted to nab him they would have blocked all the exits and anticipated him slipping away.
If they think that these guys are going to have their miranda rights read, take a glue.
I suggest Mr. Ratner inform the police that they need to be ready to anticipate an escape. All those wanted in international warrants are not waiting to be served and have their day in court.
Siun @ 10
Aren’t the ambassador to France and the diplomats in charge of the embassy responsible to uphold our Constitution? Are they criminally liable if they allow war criminals to escape?
Check this out. So bizarre that Petraeus and his hacks must have been drunk when they wrote it.
Salon.com. Glenn Greenwald. SUNDAY OCTOBER 28, 2007 07:18 EST
“A bizarre, unsolicited email from Gen. Petraeus’ spokesman”
If only drunkenness would explain WAPO’s Hyatt’s behavior, but sadly his behavior is more insidious– deliberate deception and corruption.
Siun — thanks for the post. No one should be above the law and if it takes another country to enforce our laws, well that suits me fine. Whatever it takes… Rummy, Yoo, Addington, Cheney, W, and all their little chums should be prosecuted for the crimes they have committed.
Siun @ 25
Sorry if I missed an obvious answer but where do we send nice notes to the French?
I wonder if Rummy can be brought to France if he travels to another country that has an extradition agreement with France?
Eureka Springs @ 17
What? Got a link?
Donald Rumsfeld is an awful, awful man. I wish they’d gotten him cornered, like what happened to Pinochet when he was in the UK in the spring of 1999. I was in London when that happened, and there were hundreds of Chileans, Argentinians, Italian and Spanish protesters outside the houses of Parliament, with signs showing pictures of some of Pinochet’s victims.
Has anybody made a list, like Hugh’s list, that has the names of all our known Iraq War criminals on it?
Loo Hoo he’s not been convicted so technically he’s not a war criminal.
But they should try him in absentia if he doesn’t want to be present, convict him and then he can be a wanted man (again).
Loo Hoo. @ 28
Technically the US embassy is US soil where our laws apply, not those of the host country.
OldCoastie @ 30
I think extraordinary rendition should be the way to go
Siun @ 18
thanks! just don’t want to offend anyone. i think i will attempt one line in HS french to apologize for using english.
We pardon first and try later.
Ed*ard Teller @ 32
Actually should be fairly simple. Any person working for the WH, OVP, or appointed by Bush/Cheney to the Depts of Defense and State who had any dealings with Iraq. Start from that list and you have most of the guilty parties. Only some minor tweaking would be necessary beyond that.
since the US no longer has the political will nor the criminal justice system willing and capable of prosecuting republican criminals, at least the rest of the world still does and will. Go world Go: shackle the bastards for all their days. Hundreds of thousands of the unjustly dead and maimed cry out for justice. Someone must head their cries.
.
Technically the US embassy is US soil where our laws apply, not those of the host country.
My point. We do have laws that this administration disregards whenever it is convenient for them.
Logic dictates that B and C should follow R.
Pardonnez-moi pour écrire en anglais. =
Pardon me for writing in English.
So I wonder if this will change any of Bush or Cheney’s travel plans? What a perfectly perfect turn of event that the bushies should have to wonder if they’ll be arrested as criminals and terrorists if they set foot on foreign soil? Welcome to a pissed-off and fed-up world, guys.
How did he get from our embassy to the airport?
TexBetsy @ 41
merci!
Contacts for the French Prosecutor:
Fax or call the French Prosecutor Jean Claude Marin and demand that he open an investigation into Rumsfeld’s involvement in torture.
* Fax: 011 33 1 44 32 77 66
* Phone: 011 33 1 44 32 76 92
Loo Hoo. @ 41
Yep, and they will continue ignoring our laws here and everywhere else until Congress, the courts, or the public puts a stop to it.
marymccurnin @ 44
Embassy vehicles are considered part of the embassy country. Presumably they drove him to a US military installation rather than a public airport on French soil.
Loo Hoo – One of my favorite in state blogs http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/ which is also The Arkansas Times newspaper. The blog covers all of the guest speakers etc.. Sorry I haven’t saved individual links but if you find them you will see me howling about inviting such lunatics!
selise @ 46
I think l’anglais…the french use the definite article more than we do.
Siun @ 46
For those that can not send faxes overseas, here’s contact info for the French embassy and consulates in the United States.
Oh! Email addresses for the French consulates in Texas:
les Consuls Honoraires
* Austin
* Dallas
* Oklahoma City
* San Antonio
hautdepage
Austin
- M. John Harmon
Graves Daugherty Hearon and Moody
401 Congress, Suite 2200
Austin, TX 78701
Tél : (512) 480 5600
Mél : jharmon@gdhm.com
hautdepage
Dallas
M. Robert Lavie
1911 N. Lamar, Suite300
Dallas, TX 75202
Tél : (214) 953 0100
Télécopie : (214) 953 0312
Mél : RL@Interstable.com
hautdepage
Oklahoma City
Mme. Barbara Thompson
315 Northwest 39th
Oklahoma City 73118
Tél : (405) 524 1776
Fax : (405) 609 5131
Mél : BThomp1118@aol.com
hautdepage
San Antonio
- M. John Collet
13710 Cape Bluff
San Antonio, Tx 78216
Tél : (210) 495 4440
Mél : johnlcollet@sbcglobal.net
marymccurnin @ 46
Probably the same kind of CIA van they use when conducting extraordinary renditions in Europe, eh?
gbear – it’s apparently much harder – if not impossible – to prosecute while someone is a head of state or minister which is why this looked like a good move to CCR, etc – Rummy is now simply a private citizen and so prosecution is easier.
Are there any good books about Al Queda? I feel I know nothing about them?
What do you know?
I wonder how long it will take to start hearing about Freedom Fries from Fox Noise?
I can see it now…tried and convicted in absentia in country after country.
Would be really sweet to see the same thing happen to Bush & Cheney after they leave office.
If he’s a private citizen why is he getting all the extra percs from the embassy? Would they do it for you?
Remember when the Israelis used to go to other countries, kidnap Nazis and bring them to trial? We can only hope. . .
That book really is required reading. Thanks for higlighting it. The publisher’s page that you linked to has extracts of the book and podcast links to an NPR programme with the authors – well worth everyon’s time.
SanderO @ 58
WOuld they keep me from getting arrested? Or let me stay there while they look over the warrant? NO and PROBABLY.
Thanks, Siun, TSF, and TexB..)
Henry Kissinger’s another one that has to be very careful where he travels outside of the US. IIRC, he can’t set foot in the UK, for one.
Ed*ard Teller @ 55
Scene: inside the garage at the embassy . . .
CIA driver: OK, Mr. Secretary, just put this hood over your head, and we’ll put you in the back seat.
Rummy: What do you mean “put this hood over my head?!?”
CIA driver: It’s a disguise. If we get stopped, they’ll just think you’re al-Qaeda and let us pass.
Rummy: (indignantly) Maybe you should put a beard and turban on me, and tell them I’m Osama bin Laden.
CIA driver: (missing the snark) Hey, what a good idea!
gbear @ 45
Carrying the concept a little further, Alberto Gonzales is complicit in the torture stuff along with Donald Rumsfeld, Dubya, and Cheney. What is really neat about the whole thing is that Bush can grant pardons from now until the cows come home — but they don’t mean squat in France (or any other country, for that matter).
On the other hand, it is sad that Bush etal have destroyed so much…
Du – thanks for highlighting the book! I’ve put my order in … Folks, follow the links to get info on Administration of Torture.
SanderO – I highly recommend The Great War for Civilization by Robert Fisk as must reading for understanding Al Qaeda and so much more.
Phoenix Woman @ 62
Not good enough, by a million miles.
Phoenix Woman at 6:47 pm: – I read about 3 years ago that he has to take legal advice every time he wants to leave the U.S.
sojourner @ 65
What about Wolfoa**?
Siun @ 56
Thanks Siun. I kind of figured as much. It won’t be that long until they ARE private citizens again though. Do you think this might happen to all of them in 2009 and beyond?
French consulate in San Francisco:
540 Bush Street, San Francisco, CA 94108, USA
Tel: 415-397-4330
Fax: 415-433-8357
Well, here’s my problem. One of the reasons I want all the torturers prosecuted is to prove to the world that America will not allow such action to go unpunished. If they’re tried in Europe, that only magnifies America’s unwillingness to do it.
I don’t just need these guys prosecuted, I need them prosecuted in the U.S.
Siun @ 56
But aren’t US taxpayers still paying to move him around from the embassy to the airbase, and thence home to the USA? That itself is a scandale, and must stop on 1/20/09.
gbear – one of the reasons I am a big fan of the Center for Constitutional Rights is that they keep bringing cases and pushing for war crimes prosecution – suporting them is a good idea to get ready for all the prosecutions we need.
TeddySanFran @ 73
Did we pay for this trip? I thought he was there on a paid speaking gig.
I guess he won’t be saying he doesn’t miss Georgie Boy anymore.
solai @ 72
I agree
I am specifically looking for info about AQ. Fisk is a ME jounalist.
TexBetsy @ 77
But once the cloak and dagger stuff started and the Embassy officials assisted in his hasty exit from France, that’s on our dime IMHO.
Evening everyone!
Elliott @ 76
But I will take what I can get. Just behind bars somewhere.
Extradition treaty with Paraguay includes the following:
solai @ 71
I will settle for any prosecution at this point in time.. preferably Europe, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the US!
I can hear bush after being briefed on this event: “So you mean he’s, like, grounded??’
The French consulate in Boston has an email form on their web page:
http://www.consulfrance-boston…..d_auteur=8
Would it be ok to email or do you think a call/fax is preferable?
Here is the address and phone:
Consulate General of France in Boston
31 Saint James Avenue, Boston, MA 02116
Tel. (617)832 4400
Fax :(617) 542 8054
Hi all.
I’m picturing a chase scene on the Tour Eiffel. That would make a great drama . . . but I doubt Rummy will be doing any sight seeing a Paris.
PBS in Philly is running I Claudius starting tonight. Talk about the decline and fall of an empire! How timely. I’ll be watching it through different eyes this time around.
SanderO – Fisk’s book opens with his first interview with bin Laden in Yemen … and follows through the development from Yemen to Afghanistan to now … better than any other source I have found. Fisk knows the territory that leads to AQ
You will never see a high ranking gov official in this country as a defendant in a US court.
Where ya at Madmommy?
SanderO @ 89
Whaddya call Irve Libby, huh?
OK Siun, I’ll give it a read. I know Fisk from DemocracyNow!
TeddySanFran @ 90
Pardoned.
Siun @ 85
I have a great deal of admiration for Fisk and really like his writing.
marymccurnin @ 90
In my jammies and fuzzy pink slippers, feet up, keyboard in lap, game on in the background, recovering from my day.
You?
He was pardoned wasn’t he? SO the trial is all sound and fury and no one pays… essentially.
SanderO @ 55
The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright. Excellent.
SanderO @ 77
there’s quite a bit about AQ in general and bin laden in particular… and in a way that helps me try to make sense of the historical context.
i second siun’s recommendation.
Relaxing into the notion that Rummy will someday be rendered ineffective.
I gotta go beddie bye… be well…
Think direct action STRIKE the nation
marymccurnin @ 93
Commuted—even worse. If pardoned, he’d have to testify. Now he’s still under protection of the mafia.
OK so how many in AQ? DO you know?
marymccurnin @ 93
Commuted. As in past tense of commute, which he no longer has to do, now that he’s unemployed…
madmommy @ 95
Nail-biter, eh? Colt threw 6 TDs in a 50-13 rout! *g* Aloha Ya’ll!
You go to The Hague with the Secretary of Defense you have,
not the one that you might wish for.
SanderO @ 96
A semi-pardon, otherwise he would’ve had to answer to Congress…
Who, oh who, is going to ask Hilary Clinton about whether she if prepared to have us join the International Criminal Court ?
phred @ 103
I think that AEI or some other wing nut welfare outfit has found a cozy liar for him to lurk in.
CTuttle @ 104
Any Heisman talk? Still one more week of hype here till next saturday.
Marshall @ 107
*crickets*
is all we will hear on that one, especially from Hillary. Bill could be in some trouble there IIRC.
RevDeb @ 108
That sounds about right. Can’t have a loyal Rethug go without a paycheck, convicted felon or no.
madmommy @ 109
Not really, BCS is the latest hope, yet, once again they get no love… 14th in the BCS standings, 12th in most polls…
Marshall – now that’s a very good question. I’ve found that HRC’s people seem to always be too busy to answer questionss like that though.
So, Loo Hoo can I take that extradition treaty with Paraguay to mean that maybe the Bush’s retirement ranch is not such a great idea after all? Of course that would require the president to actually do the right thing and pursue prosecution of any previous administration members who broke the law.
Siun @ 110
Are they busy or just above it all? /s
Argentine First Lady elected President by wide margin
Interesting system where one can win 46% of the vote and avoid a runoff….
Siun @ 113
As evidenced by the Micro Trend Book Salon…
madmommy @ 113
Dodd for President!!!!! He would do it given his family history.
rofl Eureka!
It’s really quite interesting to see which questions they respond to and which they don’t ..
residual troops, membership in the Fellowship, FISA, Torture, etc .. crickets
madmommy @ 114
Hillary’s will be a “bygones” Presidency, just like Bill’s. Can’t have your Attorney General prosecuting and extraditing your husband’s new best friend’s son.
marymccurnin @ 118
Timmeh was gunning for him today in MTP…
marymccurnin – have you read Dodd’s book of his Dad’s letters?
I am enthralled with it!
I like the idea that rummy and other neocons will be forced to wear the mark of Cain, and will be shunned by the civilized nations of the world.
Marshall @ 107
Would be a great question for KO if he succeeds in getting her on the air live.
TeddySanFran @ 120
That’s what I’m thinking too. Throw in her recent remarks regarding which of the sweeping presidential powers she would rescind and my concern deepens.
madmommy @ 112
Looks like it to me. I just remember a lot of chatter about Bush buying the ranch in Paraguay because there was no extradition treaty. And you’re right, the next president would have to choose an AG willing to go after war criminals. Fitz, anyone?
CTuttle @ 120
How was Dodd? Did he give Timmeh what for?
Azdak @ 123
What do they care? As long as they can sit happily on their piles of treasure like Scrooge McDuck, who needs the civilized world? /s
we need investigational hearings by congress into torture, secret prisons, etc….
so far… crickets.
madmommy @ 127
It takes some level of self awareness to understand that the rest of the universe thinks you are scum.
Siun @ 122
I anticipate at least one good sermon coming out of it.
Imagine Dodd reading that aloud as he filibusters the FISA bill.
newspaperbrat @ 121
Agreed, but it would be his last interview with her..)
marymccurnin @ 127
C&L has a recap
“Tim Russert Accuses Senator Dodd Of Using FISA Hold For Political Purposes”
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…../#comments
RevDeb @ 131
It would sure beat the phone book ;)
RevDeb @ 131
I am hoping Hillary will join him and read the Starr report.
RevDeb @ 131
Ooohhh! That would be so perfect! Think Inhofe and the rest of his knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing,lizard-brained compadres would get the connection?
Marshall @ 107
Speaking of crickets – it’s been 12 hours since William Safire told Timmeh that the ideal running mate for HRC is Rahm Emanuel. I keep checking at Howie’s place, hoping for a huge dose of snark on this, but so far Howie seems to be too busy rebuilding the Democratic Party to deal with such Hillary hilarity.
madmommy @ 136
no.
this has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions (as Atrios would say)
Gunmen in Iraq Kidnap Eleven Tribal Leaders Allied With U.S.
But not a civil war, oh no….
Ed*ard Teller @ 137
Holy Shit! Rahm? No freaking way! What an unmitigated disaster!
CTuttle @ 133
If Dodd is using his willingness to show the freaking balls to stand up for civil liberties as a campaign tactic, then I’d call it one damned effective political stunt. Maybe Russert should go throw his head at Ichabod Crane or something.
TeddySanFran @ 116
FWIW, in the primaries in Kentucky the threshold to avoid a run-off is 40%.
EvilDrPuma @ 141
707!
phred @ 133
*spew*
EvilDrPuma @ 141
Timmeh was totally playing the gotcha game today. He had no interest in actually listening to what Dodd was saying.
madmommy @ 140
I agree, but he is a perfect match for Hillary. They both represent the Republican wing of the party. I would as soon elect Rahm President as HRC.
madmommy @ 140
I agree with ya, but, why not? The perfect DLC ticket…
dakine01 @ 142
He wouldn’t have understood it anyway. I have decided that he not only is bought and paid for but is as dumb as a stump.
madmommy @ 143
Thank you. I can’t tell you how much I like that mental image.
I owe ya a coke, phred…! ;-)
Hillary almost has to select Barack Obama as her running mate at this point in time, imo.
Safire was aiming for satire and missed.. Especially with his McCain/ Rice ticket prediction. *g*
phred @ 146
Seems too regional, Illinois and New York. There’s always such discussion about “balancing the ticket”. Isn’t Hillary an Illinois native? I just think she would go with someone else, and if she gets the nod I emphatically hope that she does!
Eureka Springs @ 151
Safire could do us all a big favor by aiming for retirement.
TeddySanFran @ 75
Rumsfeld and the rest of this crew must be impeached by the next Congress. That way they will no longer be able to use their former offices for any benefits. AND they will not be able to apply for new benefits or positions. Impeachment not only removes a person from their office…it Disqualifies them from ever again holding a position of “honor, trust, and profit” under the United States.
That would prevent Bush and Cheney from blocking individuals from examining their Presidential and Vice-Presidential records.
It would prevent them from using the franking and office privileges that are often given former officeholders (Rummy still has an office and staff at the Pentagon, I believe).
It would remove Secret Service protection. They’d have to pay for their own security.
They would never be able to use their TITLES in speaking events, fundraising (e.g. for the George W. Bush Presidential Library). They would only be allowed to use such titles if an historical prefix was added…”the only President impeached and Convicfted of High Crimes and Misdemeanors against the nation”.
They would not be allowed to take gifts or memorabilia acquired as a result of their office.
If they joined a particular firm or think tank that group would be abjured from receiving any Federal Contracts that might result in “profit” for the impeached officeholder.
They’d be forbidden to lobby or advise Congress or the Executive branch, except when subpoenaed to testify to a Congressional Committee. They could not escape testimony by the use of “Executive Privilege”. No such privilege is offered to an impeached officeholder.
They’d be dishonorable and thus face no support in the Courts as a former officeholder. Nothing that required their “trust” would be allowed. And no contact with the United States would be allowed in which they could profit in any way.
madmommy @ 152
There are also a lot of rumors to the affect that HRC does not think too highly of Rahm and attempted to get Big Dog to fire him before he (Rahm) ran for office
madmommy @ 152
Edited for correctness, right? ;-)
CTuttle @ 156
well, yeah!
CTuttle @ 147
Safire’s comment – whatever else you can say about the guy, he has a sense of humor – was “quite frankly, here you have the hawkish side of the Democratic Party. If they get together, the bumper sticker will read “Invade and Bomb with Hillary and Rahm!”"
Ahmad Chalabi back in focus:
Ahmad Chalabi, the controversial, ubiquitous Iraqi politician and one-time Bush administration favorite, has re-emerged as a central figure in the latest U.S. strategy for Iraq.
TPM
Loo Hoo. @ 159
“Oh, God….”
–Lord Edmund Blackadder
TeddySanFran @ 135
Even better, Hillary can read the words of all those Republican Senators and Congressmen calling for Bill’s impeachment who have since been embroiled in fiscal and sexual scandals. All that stuff about how we should be good role models to the children of America…and then point out that spying on citizens to dig up dirt and hold it against them is precisely what this law would allow.
Any executive Democrat or Republican could order a Telecom Firm to give them access for a “terrorist investigation” and the Telecomms would have to comply, with no warrants being supplied, even if the real purpose was to spy on Senators or Congressmen. And they would receive immunity for that!
Loo Hoo. @ 159
Gah, sickening… Wasn’t his nephew the notorious ‘Curveball?’
General Strike! The citizens filibuster…
Loo Hoo. @ 159
They do keep grasping at straws don’t they?
EvilDrPuma @ 159
*headdesk* –peanutbutter
CTuttle @ 150
Great minds think alike ;) And then there’s Rahm and Hillary, blech!
Chalabi is Arabic for Rasputin.
-GSD
P.S. Radar online has a quiz.
Fox News anchor or porn star?
Welcome to the US of A, Mr. Cabinet Minister:
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/271329
Chalabi.
Initially, Chalabi enjoyed close political and business relationships with some members of the U.S. government, including some prominent neoconservatives within the Pentagon. Chalabi is said to have had political contacts within the Project for the New American Century, most notably with Paul Wolfowitz, a student of nuclear strategist Albert Wohlstetter and Richard Perle who was introduced to Chalabi by Wohlstetter in 1985. He also enjoyed considerable support among politicians and political pundits in the United States, most notably Jim Hoagland of The Washington Post, who held him up as a notable force for democracy in Iraq. Chalabi’s opponents, on the other hand see him as a charlatan of questionable allegiance, out of touch with Iraq and with no effective power base there.
CURVEBALL IS HIS BROTHER.
Ed*ard Teller @ 158
That’s hilarious — thanks for the full quote.
Loo Hoo. @ 83
Yeah…big loophole there regarding waivers for extradition for “Political Crimes”. Impeachable offenses are “political crimes”. I doubt that many of the acts that would be viewed as impeachable (e.g. denying individuals access to lawyers, or holding them without habeas corpus) have any sort of criminal law that covers them at all.
I insist that a Democratic president with a Democratic Senate enter into formal recognition of the International Criminal Court. So far we, as a country, are unwilling to prosecute our criminal politicians.
Before the war, the CIA was largely skeptical of Chalabi and the INC, but information from his group (most famously from a defector codenamed “Curveball”) made its way into intelligence dossiers used to help convince the public in America and Britain of the need to go to war. “Curveball” – the brother of a top lieutenant of Chalabi – fed hundreds of pages of bogus “firsthand” descriptions of mobile biological weapons factories on wheels and rails. Secretary of State Colin Powell later used this information in a UN presentation trying to garner support for the war, despite warnings from German intelligence that “Curveball” was fabricating claims. Since then, the CIA has admitted that the defector made up the story, and Colin Powell apologized for using the information in his speech. A later congressionally appointed investigation (Robb-Silberman) concluded that Curveball had no relation whatsoever to the INC, and that press reports linking Curveball to the INC were erroneous.
Waccamaw @ 168
And how’s our tourism industry doing?
Is this messed up or what?
British cabinet minister detained at U.S. airport
Oct 28, 2007 06:05 PM
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
LONDON – Britain’s first Muslim government minister was disappointed after being pulled aside for questioning at a U.S. airport for the second time in a year, he said today.
International Development Minister Shahid Malik said he was detained for about 40 minutes at Dulles Airport in Washington on Sunday morning and his hand luggage was tested for traces of explosives. Malik was returning to London after talks on tackling terrorism with U.S. officials.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/271329
cinnamonape @ 171
I thought we were talking about the war crimes that the French want Rumsfeld for. Those seem to be covered under the treaty. IANAL
Waccamaw @ 168
We crossed in the Toobz! 8-)
CTuttle @ 175
I love the smell of a diplomatic incident in the morning.
Loo Hoo. @ 171
How dare DHS treat him like an American citizen with shoes!
Sorry, Curveball is the brother of a top lieutenant of Chalabi.
Loo Hoo. @ 174
Winnin’ hearts and minds, one visitor at a time. :-(
P.S. – CT *g*
TeddySanFran @ 116
Uhmmm! I recall that we have the same system. It doesn’t requre that a candidate receive an actual majority of votes, simply a plurality…and even worse that’s statewide (because we have that darn Electoral College).
IIRC there have been several elections where the US President didn’t have an absolute majority of the popular vote, and one (at least) when they didn’t even win the plurality of votes.
Loo Hoo. @ 167
i’m,i don’t know what to say!
this site is tha BEST!
never,ever,would i have known that.
Waccamaw @ 168
Everytime I travel outside the country, I am so embarassed by the treatment visitors receive from our customs and security folks. It’s dreadful …
and when I was flying out of the UK last week, something I was carrying triggered the explosives test – a lot of cosmetics have paraffin which seems to be the culprit. UK security pulled me aside but were completely lovely and polite.
CTuttle @ 175
CTuttle,
Are you aware of this brush fire in Kamuela? From MSNBC 500 forced to evacuate. Set by arsonists.
Evening Siun and all.
Finally read through the comments.
I am really interested in the idea of calling French Consulates in the US to convey the message, particularly if that would be just as effective as calling or faxing to France.
Many pups might find phoning the local (or closest) consulate easier than phoning to France.
I will phone my local consulate in the morning, and see what response I get, and report back.
Perhaps Punaise could be recruited to this effort- as in phone to France, discuss the issue, say we are very interested, ask if contacting US consulates is a viable way to make our opinions heard, etc.
We CAN ramp this up.
EvilDrPuma @ 178
As a Cabinet Minister would his passport not be different from the average British citizen? And would the airport authorities not be made aware that a Cabinet minister would be traveling on a particular flight?
Siun @ 184
I’m embarrassed at the treatment Americans get from our customs and security folk. I can’t even imagine what kind of an impression it leaves on a guest.
My major concern is that all the president’s men are going to walk. I lay awake at nights worrying about that. We let Nixon walk. We let the Iran/Contra perpetrators walk, including Ronald Reagan. This time the outrage against humanity is so great that, to have any international credibility, we need to bring these assholes to justice.
These assholes are evil but they aren’t completely stupid when it comes to self interest. They’ve taken a number of steps to isolate themselves from legal culpability for their war crimes and crimes against humanity. But the story is a bit convoluted.
First of all please understand that by Article VI of the U.S. Constitution:
Now that refers to senate ratified treaties, which include the Geneva conventions and the U.N. Charter. But (and IANAL) there’s a catch 22: no courts have jurisdiction over treaties except the Supreme Court, which only hears cases referred from lower courts. With that in mind, the good Republicans in 1996 made war ncrimes into federal crimes, tryable in Federal courts, via the War Crimes act of 1996:
For the record, Common Article 3 includes:
In other treaties, “torture” has been defined to include “simulated execution,” e.g., waterboarding.
But, alas the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (aka, the McCain Amendment) and the Military Commissions Act of 2006 have sought to enshrine the “good-faith defense,” which says that a perpetrator who was acting in good faith on advice of counsel should not be liable for his/her criminal acts.
Please compare/contrast the Nuremberg defense, “I was just following orders,” which the U.S. insisted that the world reject as a defense in cases of crimes against humanity, with the good-faith defense, which the Bush administration is already using in the telco-immunity case and will surely use in any prosecution of its violations of international law, “I was acting in good faith on the assurance of counsel that what I was doing did not violate U.S. and/or international law.” That’s inevitably how it is going to play out. In one of his posts, my hero Marty Lederman seemed to give the good-faith defense some support. But generally he has been clear that these are violations of law:
Thanks for the good news Siun.
OT: How Anti-Union, Anti-Tax OC Conservatives Defeated Adequate Fire Protection in 2005
madmommy @ 187
Maybe somebody in TSA spread a rumor that all terrorists claim to be British cabinet ministers. I could see them falling for something like that.
Loo Hoo. @ 178
ooh!
i almost fell off my chair.
i don’t know whether to be disappointed or not.
Good idea Valley Girl and all – I’ll update the post to include this link to the French Consulates.
peanutbutter @ 191
Crucify them on it.
SanderO @ 89
It is not what we will see. It is what we will do.
We can make it happen.
wigwam @ 195
“Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.”
–Thulsa Doom
Hmmm… political posturing?
McCain, a guest on ABC’s This Week with George Stephanopoulos, was asked if he would need a more definitive answer from Mukasey before voting to confirm him.
“I can’t be that absolute,” he said, after a pause. “But I want to know his answer.”
McCain continued that he will judge the nominee by his entire record.
“But this is a very important issue to me.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit…..-sure.html
TeddySanFran @ 135
Really, I so would rather have her as AG, I position I would trust her in.
wigwam @ 194
Everyone who is running against a rethug Representative here has GOT to make use of this…
peanutbutter @ 191
just astonishing, isn’t it?
after all – can’t have that socialized fire fighting!
nitwits.
TeddySanFran @ 139
Yeah…and this was supposed to be an area where the US ahd turned over the zone to local militias because it had been cleared of insurgents and the locals could “control” it. Now we will have to redo the “surge”.
I call it “squishing tomatos”. You but the jack-boot down and hit the tomato, then the seeds go squirting out on all the other sh*t around, propogating more tomatos. Then you squish those tomatos, and the seeds land back in the area you just squashed, and the old tomatos make great fertilizer there.
CTuttle @ 198
Blah, blah, freakin blah. McCain would sell his mother to the devil to be president. Of all the candidates, he should be adamant about this issue, and yet he pussy foots around.
Siun @ 194
Thanks, Siun.
And, might be interesting to have a thread where people report back on their experiences phoning local consulates.
Also, I will contact Punaise, and see what insight he has. For those of you who don’t know, Punaise lived in France, has a French wife (now a US citizen I believe) and is French fluent.
peanutbutter @ 200
The guy who has got to get this message is Blue America CA-42 candidate Ron Shepston, who lives in Santiago Canyon. He comments and posts at Dkos, along with his campaign manager (Greg Diamond?) who blogs there as MajorDanby.
dakine01 @ 185
Yep, ironically, the 500 evacuated are all from multi-million dollar homes on Kohala’s Golden Coast, home to 4 and 5 star resorts…!
Siun -
Several years ago, my cousin and I were leaving the States for GB and both of us got pulled out for the extra special once-over by our guys. At the time, it was just vastly irritating, kinda like when a twit forgets to turn off the sensor on something you’ve bought in the store and it sets off the alarms. Had I known then what I know now, I still wonder what my reaction would have been.
Donald C. Pinochet.
May he travel in the dark the rest of his miserable life.
-GSD
May, it’s wikipedia.
Lots of great info!
Late Nite is up!
FunnyDiva
GSD @ 208
Hi GSD! Just out of interest, would you be willing to phone your closest French Consulate and support this action?
I’m taking the temperature at the Lake, so to speak. You are my first patient.
Loo Hoo. @ 209
thanks Loo hoo
signed: Ima Nidiot.
Teddy – who sure knows how to pick a good restaurant btw! is upstairs and he’s talking about DiFi: Snakes on a Plane
peanutbutter @ 191
Yeah. And the three amigos (Bilbray, Issa and Hunter) act like the great saviors in SoCal for getting military aircraft to help put out fires. Course they wouldn’t follow civilian command so they went to certain fires… If all of our money wasn’t being spent on the occupation, and most of our national guard wasn’t fighting in it, we could have the best firefighting aircraft in the world. But that is lost on the San Diego sheeple.
Loo Hoo. @ 159
Saw that in this McCalatchy report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclat…..ditor_ytop
But what really pissed me off (unusual for McClatchy reporting) was that they never stated precisely what Chalabi DID that caused him to fall out of favor in the eyes of the US government.
Chalabi is an opportunist of the first order. The Neo-Cons used his lies to get us into the war…remember “Curveball” and a host of other “former Baathist intelligence agents” that Chalabi marched out before reporters like Judy Miller to make the most outrageous statements. They bandied him up as the great unifying leader but were stymied when even his fellow Shi’a turned their noses up at him.
They gave him the job of “De-Baathification” Minister. Which he actually did very well at…making him hated by most Sunnis.
He also traded in US military secrets and documents with Iran (which the Neo-Cons in the Bush Administration willing gave him because they were his bosom buddy). He did this to win over Iranian support so that he could use their influence on SCIRI.
He knew that he had no real support within Iraq. His “party” received about as many votes as the Constitution Party did in the last US Election. I think the Party of Silly Walks polled more.
Now he’s suddenly back in the “good graces” of the US military??? Despite being a broker of classified information? Yeah…this is a sign of utter desperation!
Loo Hoo. @ 176
It’s a US-Paraguayan Treaty. Not a French-Paraguayan Treaty. And there’s also a clause in there about the treaty not allowing “third party” extradition…the crimes have to have occurred in the territories of either of the signatories. Thus crimes in Iraq would not be covered.
Now it’s possible that the EU nations have their own extradition treaties that don’t have this clause, or that Rummy committed some crime on their own territory that would allow extradition back there.
But nothing in the US-Paraguayan Treaty would allow them to be hauled out unless it nails them for a CRIME (under US Criminal law) in the US.
I really think it’s “Hague Time” for the lot of them….
“Behind The Orange Curtain”
In Huntington Beach, in the north end of Orange County, they do not put bus schedules on the bus stops. Because… “criminals could use buses to get away.”
It’s all suburbs, all white, nobody knows their neighbors, and nobody stays anywhere for more than a few years. There are a few oases like Laguna Beach.
SanderO @ 57
IIRC The Looming Tower is supposed to be pretty good.
very late to this party but i couldn’t just pass by.
i think the French should perform an extraordinary rendition
of the Donald, maybe to southern Lebanon or northwest Pakistan.
they could then extract some of the pompous disingenuousness
from his scaly hide maybe, don’t cha think?
Rummy better hunker down at the Hoover Institution.