Listening to Bush and his Republican loyalists complain about the added $35 billion to ensure SCHIP for 10 million children, you have to wonder what would happen if the Democratic Party proposed a new government program — never mind what it covers — that had a 10 year cost of $2.4 trillion, and without any way to pay for it?
The $2.4 trillion, of course, is the latest forecast from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office of the costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars through 2017, ($1.9 trillion for Iraq) including interest. When Democratic Representatives Jim McGovern and David Obey suggested a surtax to pay for the war, rather than burden future generations, his idea got a few denunciations but more nervous silence, if not panic, from Republicans.
Still, I was wondering what kinds of tax increases would be needed to pay for George Bush’s war, and yesterday, Charlie Rangel gave me a rough idea. As Chair of House Ways and Means, Rangel has been working on what he calls “the Mother of All Tax Reforms,” an effort to reverse the Bush Administration’s massive wealth transfer from the poor and middle class to the wealthiest Amercans. That wealth transfer increased the number of Americans in poverty while robbing the middle class of most of the increases in national wealth and incomes that, instead, flowed to the rich and super rich. From Robert Reich (h/t TexBetsy), who worries we won’t have the courage to fix this:
New data from the Internal Revenue Service show that income inequality continues to widen. The wealthiest 1 percent of Americans earn more than 21 percent of all income. That’s a postwar record. The bottom 50 percent of all Americans, when all their wages are combined, earn just 12.8 percent of the nation’s income.
Yesterday, Rangel released more details of his proposed tax plan, amidst horrific howling from the Republicans, because it would effectively increase taxes for the very richest Americans by about $1 trillion, while providing the equivalent tax relief to everyone else. Naturally, the Republicans only mentioned the increase part in their denunciations, did not mention whose taxes would go up and whose would go down, and promptly labeled this the “mother of all tax increases.” As Digby always says, ______ ____ ___ __.
Still, it’s illuminating to take each one of Rangel’s proposals to see what it takes to raise $1 trillion. [Assuming the description of Rangel's plan is for a ten-year period . . .] if we add up each of these increases, and multiply them all by 2.4, we can piece together a different tax package that might be needed to pay for our $2.4 trillion unfunded wars.
Rangel wants to give middle class married couples another $850 standard deduction and give more low-income people tax credits, while increasing child care credits. He also wants to repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax, a big item, which keeps surprising upper-middle income tax payers because it’s not indexed to inflation. Most folks seem to agree on at least that proposal. Note all these benefits go to the middle class or the near poor, but Rangel would also reduce the corporate tax rate from 35% to 30.5%, and there are other corporate tax shifts from one type to another. So it appears that most corporations would not pay for the middle class tax cuts. Who would?
Rangel’s a Democrat, and Democrats since Bill Clinton have applied “pay as you go,” meaning Rangel needs to find tax increases to offset these tax cuts. Here’s Rangel’s list:
– a 4% increase in income taxes on those earning over $200,000.
– a 4.6% increase in income taxes on those earning over $500,000 (couples) or $250,000 (single payers).
– taxing the “interest” earned by hedge fund managers and others as regular income instead of capital gains = an additional $26 billion.
– eliminating off-shore tax havens for hedge fund managers = an additional $23 billion.
There are other measures, but those are the big ones. You can see the largest portion of revenues would have to come from the 4% and 4.6% increases on those with the highest incomes. So if that’s what gets you close to $1 trillion, then as a very rough first estimate, we would need to more than double these rates, which means doing at least the following to pay for George Bush’s war:
– Increase income taxes by about 8% for those making more than $200,000
– Increase income taxes by about 9.2% for those making more than $500,000 ($250,000 for single tax payers)
(For comparison, $2.4 trillion equals $8,000 for every person in America.)
I can’t think of a single reason not to do this. Of course, if you wanted to pay for both the war and tax relief to the middle class and near poor, you’d have to increase those rates by another 4% to 4.6%, and if you want universal health care — we’d have the mother of all battles.
Related posts:
- Health Care Budgeting 101: Fiscal Scolds Earn an “F-”
- Sen. Feinstein Joins the Fiscal-Scold Seven to Make a Crazy Eight
- Democratic Health Care Holdouts Worry the Rich Are Taxed Too Much
- Excise Tax on “Cadillac” Health Insurance Benefits is Regressive
- Costs of Iraq, Afghanistan Wars Proving Unsustainable





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yo
Stick it to em Sgt Rangel!
Caw, caw! Good morning, Scarecrow. Thank you for explaining this sorry story in such a clear manner for us.
Morning Scarecrow. Sounds good to me. Historically, the country has always had the most equality when the rich paid their fair share. We need to focus on the general standard of living and not just on increasing the wealth of the wealthy.
Anyone catch this yesterday?
Why Democrats are afraid to raise taxes on the rich
Could it have something to do with the recent affection of hedge-fund managers for the Democratic Party?
By Robert Reich
New data from the Internal Revenue Service show that income inequality continues to widen. The wealthiest 1 percent of Americans earn more than 21 percent of all income. That’s a postwar record. The bottom 50 percent of all Americans, when all their wages are combined, earn just 12.8 percent of the nation’s income.
Considering the magnitude of challenges ahead for America, it seems only reasonable that taxes should rise on the wealthy. Taxing the rich is not about class envy, as conservatives charge. It’s about the nation having enough money to pay for national defense and homeland security, good schools and a crumbling infrastructure, the upcoming costs of boomers’ Social Security (the current surplus has masked the true extent of the current budget deficit, but it won’t for much longer), and, hopefully, affordable national health insurance. Not to mention the trillion dollars or so it will take to fix the Alternative Minimum Tax, which is now starting to hit the middle class.
Ear to the ground, people know the capital gains tax rate is going back up. What they’re scared of is what else might happen.
Thanks Scarecrow. It’s unfortunate that the Washington Post did not hire you to explain this. One of the strengths of this great country of ours is the middle class. The share of consumer spending as part of the GNP has been dropping steadily and that will come back to bite us all. Thanks again.
hehe…downstairs I was saying I hoped scarecrow couldn’t sleep so I could get an early firedog fix…and here he is!
his nose must have been twitching
sorry I woke you up so early scarecrow..(tee hee, not really)
anyway, here’s a great idea democrats can run with following this quote;
the president has made it a point to say any programs have to be funded…we need to hold him to that standard on the next bill
we need to say;
“you get nothing until you pay for it with something other then our kids education and something other then the assets we need to keep our roads and bridges safe”
let me see him spin THAT
egregious @ 6
I have never understood why unearned income is taxed lower than earned income.
Morning Scarecrow,
Let’s have this discussion with real numbers and real options. Thank you Mr. Rangel
JPL @ 9
Cause the rich feel like they DID earn it.
if war is just a necessary evil, why not tax war profits ? ^^
JPL @ 9
In order not to discourage savings.
JPL @ 9
undeared income needs to be taxed higher then earned income for the middle class to thrive
there can be simple loopholes that would make the investors very happy
those being, (obviously) that when their unerned income is reinvested they go back to earned income levels
that grows the econonmy, it inspires investment, it gives greater return and it’s win win
this is simply the sacking and looting of our collective treasure for the benefit of the infinitesimal few.
this has been the m.o. from jan. 20, 2001 — dressed up in whatever ism or ideology that was convenient. but it was always, and is always, about the thievery.
never. forget. that.
dmg @ 15
Well said.
Also …. our children’s treasure and their children’s.
TexBetsy @ 11
then we can simply reframe the phrase, instead of calling it “unearned income” we are going to call it “investment income” and we are not going to call it an investment income tax, we are gonna call it;
“the failure to reinvest in America” tax
TAH DAHHHHHH
Egregious, The basic principle of encouraging savings might have appeared sound but unfortunately because of the disappearance of “good” jobs and increase of taxation on the middle class, most people don’t have money to save, IMO.
Mornin’ scarecrow.
I believe that lowering corporate taxes only work if ALL corporations pay their fair tax burden. Off shore accounts and accounting trickery has to be checked. I also think that, failing to rein in off shore corporations, the personal income tax on the officers/managers of off shore corps should be taxed at a penalizing rate.
In addition estate tax rates should be raised… send those “third base” trust babies back to “second base”. And unearned income should be taxed at a higher rate than earned.
Of course if the obscenely high defense budget were slashed to sane levels (huh?) the over all tax burden would be reduced.
I am a retiree and I have to pay income taxes on my social security… fu**ing stupid that is!
Good morning and thank you Scarecrow!
nomolos @ 19
I’ve never understood the reasoning for paying taxes on social security when it was a tax to start with.
PERRIS’S ECONOMIC PROPOSAL;
“any investor that doesn’t reinvest (insert percentage) of earnings they enjoyed by our economy will be taxed comensurate with the damage they present to the American economy, there is no welfare for the wealthy, there are bills that have to be realized by the those people who gain through investment, those bills are recovered when a percentage of profits are reinvested”
I think it has legs
TexBetsy @ 5
Ah, that’s exactly what I was looking for last night. Thanks.
The right sees it like this.
It’s a game. You win when you acquire the most.
No rules makes it a level playing field and everyone makes it or not on their “talent”. (yeah right)
And taxes basically are punishment for success in the game and are used to support the lazies who won’t play. Slackers and layabouts.
All they want to spend money on is protecting their property, and the nation/system which allows them to hoard. Everything else that they need they can purchase with their wealth.
Taxes can be small because everyone needs only the same basic things from gov… security. If you can’t make it.. tough nuggies, you’re incompetent and dumb.
Repukes are selfish… simple as that. They’re other bad things too, like racists.
Capitalism to be equitable needs lots of rules of engagement and ways to level (a bit ha?) the playing field. It needs to accept basic human rights and that includes, housing, health, a living wage, education and so on.
JPL @ 9
Because the repigs who don’t earn their own income are writing the tax laws ;~)
Good morning friends. Dark and wet where I’m at. Tomorrow’s Peace march and rally in Philly is supposed to get rained on big time.
The Tax Code has become so complicated that most people really don’t understand what they pay in Federal Taxes. Because of this many in the South think that the unFair Tax is a good idea. Scarecrow really needs to write for a large newspaper because his posts are so clear. IMO.
perris @ 22
I wish the CEO of Countrywide Bank could read this.
nomolos @ 19
that’s not how a tax reduction might work, it’s not how you get dividends from the investment,
the only way a tax reduction improves production is when that tax incentive is targeted toward a faultering market or toward an industry that otherwise would not develope
you don’t give tax giveaways to successfull bussinesses, you inspire successfull bussinesses to invest their profit into portions of the economy that need attention
for instance, if houseing is faultering, you give tax incentives to lenders
if we need alternative fuel you give tax incentives to those that research alternative fuel
if the auto industry is failing yu give that industry incentives
in each of these cases though, if the program is successful, those tax incentives MUST BE RETURNED WITH DIVIDENDS
JPL @ 26
I’ll second that. All in favor say aye?
egregious @ 29
Not so sure they would let him write what he writes so well with his fully justified indignation seething below the surface. One Krugman is about all the MSM can handle, right?
SanderO @ 24
that might be the way they see it but they refuse to acknowledge the assets they expend and they refuse to acknowledge the expense of compensating for their profit
if a corporation needs to create polution then the rest of us pay for that with our health
for the corporation to really be playing on a level field then they need to pay the health bills they create, they need to pay for the roads their labor force uses, and a host of exenses they definatley require but refuse to acknowledge as theirs
egregious @ 29
Uh, guys, thanks, but this is better than a large newspaper. And I work for Jane Hamsher and not Mr. Keller or Fred Hiatt.
Money has corrupted anything it touches… sports, theater… arts.. and why not politics and government?
Where there’s lots of money, there’s lots of corruption and abandoning of ethics and morals.
Bank on it.
it wasn’t just the republicans that rejected this idea – it was also the house dem leadership:
very glad to see jim et al fighting their own leadership on this.
egregious @ 29
wasn’t there something toward the end of the previous thread about investigative news?
oh & aye
Gotta go, but thanks again Scarecrow but your posts.
morning all, coffee is ready and today it is still strong.
fire on the mountain this morning and not enough news.
SanderO @ 33
you have a bank?
G’mornin’ Scarecrow. Seen lots of your relatives hanging out in front of houses in my neighborhood. I’ve never lived in a place that goes so crazy over Halloween. I missed the parade last night because I went to hear Sr. Joan Chittister speak about the tragedy of what wars have done to women and children and what we must do now to try to stem the flow of blood. She was awesome.
may @ 38
piggy
RevDeb @ 39
In our neighborhood here in Athens we have the second annual Boulevard Garden Club Scarecrow contest that my wife and her conspirators put on. She built a cool one that is just outside the front door and it makes me jumpy every time I got out!
perris @ 28
During the Carter years (wistful sigh…) there were good tax incentives to help insulate/update housing that I took full advantage of and, frankly, made good money from. There is no way that I could have updated without the tax incentives. The cost putting in insulation and replacement windows in old buildings was prohibitive but with the tax breaks I would have been a bloody fool not to have upgraded…. later selling at a fair profit made possible by the tax breaks.
Of course then we had Raygun and bush1 that took all incentives away and in consequence we had a dreadful housing shortage and housing for the poor was left to fall into disarray.
Republicans have won all their elections on three issues: security, taxes and abortion. They’ve lost their credibility on security. Republicans and the Religious Right have been more careful of each other. But the one issue that the Republicans will always win on is tax cuts because they simply do not care how fiscally irresponsible it is, and they keep winning because of their crazy stance on it.
Trickle down theories are lies. Deficits are ignored, and even encouraged, when they cherry pick their statistics to show how well the economy is doing. But Iraq is the mother lode of insanity!
We paid to bomb the country to shit. We’re paying to rebuild it (except we stopped doing that). We’re paying to keep the insurgency going. We’re paying corrupt officials to stay in power.
Meanwhile, we’re not paying for anything in our country! Funding cut from everything from schools to transportation to healthcare. Since when did Republicans think it was a good idea to borrow money to pay for another country’s infrastructure while ignoring ours?
TexBetsy @ 16
The thievery, and a not so subtle push to “decrease the surplus population”…middle and lower class being surplus, ya know. I suppose they’ll keep a few of us to do the scut work.
nomolos @ 42
and that’s my point, you see tax incentives actually CAN help the economy BUT they MUST be targeted and they MUST be targeted as INVESTMENTS, not at as tax reduction
They don’t care about a level playing field.
There ARE-should be NO RULES. It’s the law of the jungle. Might makes right and winner takes all.
It all flows from there.
They won’t admit it though. Corporate welfare is good for bidness.
Good morning everyone. Happy taxes. CNN’s John Roberts couldn’t handle Charlie Rangel this morning; Roberts only wanted to ask, “but won’t this raise taxes for some people?” and Rangel kept giving him whose taxes go down — 91 million families.
The other interesting story — and I could use some help here — is that oil prices have now gone over $90/bbl, and since economists say the underlying market and margin costs would suggest the basic market price should be about $60/bbl, this means the current uncertainty and risks in the ME, partly due to Bush policies, have created in effect a $30/bbl “tax” on oil.
If the Democrats proposed an oil tax of $30/bbl to pay for alternative fuels development and/or global warming strategy, the Republicans would explode — and yet they’ve effectively created the equivalent of such a tax, but instead of the money going to solve our problems, it goes to the oil companies and oil producing countries.
egregious @ 13
that’s the spin…
not sure i believe it though. would love to see some data to back it up.
The rich should pay more for taxes does Bush really think he would have gotten in the Texas Air National guard without pulling a few strings? Does he think his DUI would disapear for all those years without the political help money brings?
What about college given his grades he should have gone to comunity college. What about his gentleman’s C’s in college hearing him talk… well lots of highschool grads have more on the ball than him even after he “cough” earned his diploma but they couldn’t afford an education.
He could afford the best healthcare while I was working two jobs throwing my back out unloading unheated trucks for UPS in the middle of a cold Illinois winter wearing my winter clothes at work until I warmed up.
Thank God I can afford a chiropracter now drinking heavy was my medicine for pain then I couldn’t afford a doctor. Its amazing how much less I drink now that I’ve been seeing a chiropracter for a few years.
If we get national healthcare alcohol sales in America will tank 1 year later.
Lindy @ 44
honestly, i don’t think they want to decrease our ranks — folks running a ponzi scheme always need a vast sea of suckers from which to draw their marks.
but keep us away from them? wall us off from their compounds of privilege? take all the best land for themselves? oh yeah.
now i know how native americans felt.
raven @ 41
I’d like to see those contest. In my new neighborhood, the houses decorate with huge spider webs and black widow, lit up at night. I”m afraid to come home.
OT? You tell me:
Scarecrow @ 47
Bingo. But no one would tell the story with such clarity. God forbid it should cut into Exxon/Mobil’s profits!
Scarecrow @ 51
Unfortunately, someone in Atlanta had a display with scarecrows hung from nooses. Needless to say there was an uproar.
One reason taxes are dumb, is because they know we just print money.
Everyone knows that money is injected into the economy at the will of the Fed… It’s created as interest bearing bonds which percolate down into the financial markets and supposedly finds its way into capital projects, then jobs and so forth.
Everything is financed on debt… why be fiscally responsible and disavow debt and credit and use taxes and pay as you go and can afford?
THEY print money… it grows on trees.
Our economy is very complicated, so complicated that probably no one knows exactly how it fits together. Take this hedge fund issue. It isn’t like when the guy “earns” $1Billion, someone just writes him a check which he puts in the bank. Instead, he gets a check for management, say $10million, and the rest is bigger share in the funds of the company. That means Perris’ idea won’t work, because the guy would just argue that he has already reinvested all $990million. It would be an improvement, because like the congressional proposal it treats income as earned income instead of capital gains.
I wrote Rangel to congratulate him on his plan, but I really like David Obey’s idea that we need a war surtax if we are going to have a supplemental for Iraq. This ties the republicans to the tax and the war. I will gladly pay my share to accomplish that. Too bad Speaker Pelosi put the supplemental where impeachment is, under the table.
Scarecrow @ 47
of course, i’m no hugh… but i’ll give it a go anyway.
could this be part of the commodies bubble? just another speculative bubble like the housing and stock bubbles before it? if so, then the benefits on the upside of the bubble also go to those who’ve “invested” in it.
or could it be a reflection of the falling dollar?
SanderO @ 55
“I want the last check I write to bounce”
Kinky Friedman
masaccio @ 56
I like the idea of a special tax for the war too
perris @ 45
Of course the problem is that you make too much sense so such a plan would never fly.
selise @ 34
Pelosi is joined at the hip to HRC. Neither have the gumption to take a damned stand.
raven @ 54
Was this recent?
How many hybrid cars can 2.4 trillion buy? Ossama gets his money from wealthy Arab states a demand created drop in oil prices could cripple their economies. Defund Al Quieda and leave Iran unable to pay for nuclear technolgy. Plus Israel would be a lot safer.
Elliott @ 59
Ah, for the days when we had a war against taxes!
Scarecrow @ 61
yea, this week, it was on the local news. I think it was innocent.
Things Come Undone @ 49
we are falling for the marketing of the wealthy and really have to reframe this to read as so;
“the rich should be required to pay for the assets they’ve used to aquire that wealth”
that’s much better then “pay more taxes cause what they are really doing is paying the bills
when we discuss we need to go further as well’
” and they should be required to reinvest in the economy in the same fasion re investment gave these wealthy the very oportunity to earn that wealth’
never, “they should pay more taxes” but rather “they need to pay the bills that helped them aquire their wealth”
simple stuff and that’s what has to be done
raven @ 52
Scarecrow @ 47
I was thinking about this last night, Scarecrow. I heard a few days ago that oil inventories are more than sufficient. Ergo, the increase is pre-emptive to an upheaval in the ME, aka US attack on Iran. You know the oilmen must make profit. IMO
Things Come Undone @ 62
Not to mention the benefit to the environment that having that many hybrid cars would create.
Atlanta Halloween Noose
selise @ 57
Oh, the cause I get. We have the potential for Turkey/Iraq mess likely driving some of this. Then we have US vs Iran: Cheney threatens Iran; Iran changes its negotiator; Bush/Rice play Lieberman/Kyl; the Israelis bomb Syria (part of signal to Iran); and the neocons leak to the media the pics of the Syrians razing the site the Israel’s allegedly hit. The market can recognize the signs of impending war in the ME. I just wanted some basic numbers about how many barrels the US consumes per day (15-20 million?) or year, etc, so we can calculate the cost to Americans of this oil “tax.”
raven @ 69
Wow. You have to wonder.
Government fines, fees, penalties etc like speeding tickets should be indexed to a person’s last tax return. The higher your tax bracket the more you should pay. Bill Gates going through a midlife crises with a corvette and a lead foot could pay all of Seattle’s bills!
Our current system has judges telling homeless people their cases will be continued for a third time because they have no money.
If its fair to demand a homeless person living in their car has to pay the same amount a minium wage worker has to? Then why shouldn’t the rich pay more?
After all the fines are meant to deter crime but once you have a million speeding tickets are a joke.
You just get a lawyer and your ticket in Illinois at least disappears from your record if you avoid speeding for a year.
masaccio @ 56
Our econony is complicated, but there are some basic facts that get abused. Spending 2 Trillion dollars on a war that doesn’t give us any returns is a bad idea. Ridiculous deficits is the sign of an unhealthy econony, not a healthy one.
Scarecrow @ 71
In watching the report it was about incidents in La Grange, the airport and somewhere in Tennessee.
perris @ 65
I like that framing. I also think the rich need to pay more in taxes.
twolf1 @ 68
Yeah asthma and all kinds of breathing disorders and some allergies rates would go down think of the savings in healthcare costs.
Things Come Undone,
In Finland, speeding ticket fines are indexed to one’s income. They can be several hundred dollars for one ticket.
egregious @ 77
Thanks Egregious I knew I heard that somewhere I just couldn’t remember which country it was!
Scarecrow @ 75
Ya don’t say?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02407.html
Im not sure I understand this.
Reframe:
The truth works for me.
Scarecrow @ 70
i guess i was challenging the idea that it’s all a warmongering fear premium.
but what do i know? not much, just guessing.
selise @ 57
I think there is a good bit of “investor” speculation in oil. This has happened before, the last time oil spiked, and there was a drop and investors took a big hit. I think I saw something in the paper saying there was speculation. One big hint is that the price of oil at the pump has not risen, as it would if actual purchases and sales were closing at the higher price.
egregious @ 77
that’s an astonishing idea and somewhat brilliant: treating someone (a ’speeder’) as an individual (varying degrees of resources). But that would take away his ‘inalienable’ rights of being an individual, wouldn’t it?
(I’m thinking of the argument against this in the States)
Just think what we could save if we rebuilt our countries infrastucture, imagine if New Orleans had up to the date dikes and a building plan that left flood zones as city parks or docks rather than housing.
Imagine bridges in Minnesota up to code car and river traffic flowing I wonder how much the shutdown cost?
Imagine what 41 air tankers instead of 16 could have done to stop the fire in Californa. Imagine how low insaurence rates would be without all these disasters. Imagine how many people would be alive today if we saved just half the total number of people who died because short term thinking Grover likes betting against the house on natural disasters.
Eugene Robinson has a good one today. Lots of stuff for a straw-stuffed person to write more about.
dmg @ 15
This is the 1933 business plot. It has been reserrected by the same interests as back then. The names may have changed, but the power base is still the same, while we American pay for their criminality, as will our children if continued inaction occurs. Google it, research it, understand the nexus to todays events. The fleecing of America on a grandiose scale, right under our noses.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned – this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson.
We have had the best leadership in the history of this country of late, not!
when schools are in good order,roads in good condition,hospitals properly staffed and funded.when infrastructure is properly maintained and public servants properly recompensed.when a person can pay their way in a job of work or proffession that doesn’t eat them alive and maintain a political,social and family life.then the social cost in taxes is not too high.
greed,caste and corruption be damned!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 84
Ya can’t stop crime without a real deterent all my law enforcement major friends said in college. Why I went to a college with that many law enforcement majors is beyound me. Oh wait I just picked up an application at the comunity college researching colleges never occured to me?
TexBetsy @ 11
Blue-blood is thicker than water (sweat).
Scarecrow, your posts are always so stimulating.
The focus on income disparity and the impact of the tax code on that is good but what is also important is a focus on wealth disparity. The gap in wealth between the top tier and the other tiers of the economy has also never been larger and in no small part is the cause of the income disparity. I think this is one problem with Perris’ proposal.
I also think that we need to focus the tax code more on the strategic development of the economy. The myth of Adam Smith’s invisible hand that market forces will maximize benefits is just that, a myth. I think any tax reform needs to look at the following issues:
1) Taxing carbon emissions
2) Rewarding socially and environmentally useful innovation and capital development.
3) Addressing the fact that most families now have either at least two working adults or only one adult.
4) Reducing the incentives to associate employment and health care, e.g. tax employer contributions to health care as income.
5) Tax the accumulation of wealth on a sliding scale. Encourage savings and development of economic resources but discourage their concentration.
6) Start to develop a “whole cost” understanding of economic activity and respond with taxes that prevent economic actors from shifting costs to the commons. (A carbon tax is an example of this.)
8) The economic barriers to education.
9) Lots more..
10) This last point is a little off topic but I been thinking a lot about this and this is a good forum:
Start paying people for doing good. Here is an example: I recently heard two stories, nearly back to back. One talked about how fishing restrictions forced on us because of overfishing and other abuse of the oceans is destroying fishing fleets. The other, about how destructive all the plastic floating in the oceans is. Well, how about paying fisherman/women to clean the oceans.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 84
why?
the individual chose to individually retain enough to individually be able to pay their individual percentage.
snowbird42 @ 80
Snowbird – Marci’s got a great post on this.
actually scarecrow, my proposal addresses and solves that problem
inherited wealth must be over taxed as part of the economic philosophy that grows the economy
Correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t Rangle’s measure pay for 10 years of war in 2.4 years at 1 trillion per year, so no need to escalate the rate as you calculate.
RevDeb @ 86
thanks. One of Robinson’s best.
Realworld @ 91
I like your thinking. I generally prefer direct subsidies to tax breaks for investment. I think they are more focused and easier to end. I also agree that the wealth disparity is a serious issue, so since we are planning utopia, let’s have a tax on capital.
This is fun, but I gotta go to work. Sigh.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance.
Thomas Jefferson
Catch ya later masaccio.
I like Rangels plan it has my full support Scarecrow keep it up we need to support this! That and all the GOP candidates at the debates must be pressed to really answer how they would pay for the war without a tax increase the MSM tools let those guys get to much slack, you would think that they were on the payroll.
But oh! the MSM has no problem saying Dems would raise taxes. Look you MSM tools if we stop the war we cut expenses and lower the amount that taxes have to be raised to pay the National debt.
What part of income and expense did they drop from the Journalism school curriculum did you all get gentlemen’s C’s like Bush?
The longer we contiune the war that means that taxes have to be raised even more to pay for it.
God forbid China stops buying our debt. Didn’t France demand gold in the 70’s that Nixion didn’t have instead of paper money and that set off the economic crisis we had then when we were forced off the gold standard? China could do the same with even worst results today.
Scarecrow @ 96
Here, here.
may @ 92
heh.
but my suggestion is that this idea would be twisted around to represent an ‘attack’ on individuality in the ‘land of the free:’
If an individual is fined individually based on individual resources and individual income isn’t individualizing this individual denying him/her the right to be an individual within a ‘one law fits all sizes’ approach?
Mike K @ 95
Good question; from the tax article it wasn’t clear whether it was describing a 1 year or 10 year effect, so your interpretation is possible. Moreover, the CBO’s estimate is a ten-year cost, which includes several hundred billion in interest. So if you’re right, we could pay off the war faster with less interest, and then use the revenues for “tax relief” and or health care, etc. As I said, this was just a very rough first estimate, and your interpretation could change it substantially.
Another feature in the CBO estimate is the assumption that we keep about 75,000 troops in Iraq for the 10 year period. Are they in barracks or on the streets fighting?
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 103
then how come there are different tax brackets?
How we raise revenue is a question on the minds of every reasonable person involved in governance. While there are a lot of inequities on the federal level on the state and local levels the tax models are not working any more at all.
egregious @ 13
Hey, that’s a good one. Total U.S. savings has declined with the reduction in the capital gains tax rate. Heckuva job!
Right now the rich are getting rich on the backs of the poorest nation. First step should be to regulate fast cash booths, credit cards, and mortgage companies. The last 6-7 years have been a free for all in the pocket of the poorest.
My mortgage company literally did not record payments. They did not speak with me. They violated many fdic laws. I have a laywer on it but it took two years for me to get a lawyer to really believe me. They hide their evidence in faulty difficult to read statements. When I showed my lawyers the statements in the beginning they said “yah well some of these banks are shady”. But now when I show them the statement I have people who can vouch that as lawyers the statement makes no sense.
I have a master’s degree. I was a single woman buying my first house on my own. I ended up in this loan due to shady broker. My credit did not require a subprime loan and they kept it hush-hush that it was subprime..which is illegal.
If you are poor you pay more.
eCAHNomics @ 107
what do you think are the real factors that affect our savings rate?
Katie Jensen @ 108
One of the reasons the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is just that fact – as my dad used to say, “It’s really expensive to be poor.”
may @ 105
hmmm….May. I may not even know anymore what I am trying to satirize.
LA fire update OT:
West LA has fog this am. Great news; this means moisture in the air flowing inland, at last. Fog is also heavy because of particulate matter in the air.
One of the reasons the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is just that fact – as my dad used to say, “It’s really expensive to be poor.”
just look at the rate the uninsured pay for medical costs — retail rate
OT – MSNBC.com Breaking News
Georgia top court orders underage-sex youth sentenced 10 years be freed
This is the Genarlow Wilson case.
eCAHNomics @ 107
The super rich don’t save in American banks as they can get a lot better rate of return by playing the international money markets. The Euro is a damn good buy right now. The US dollar is is the sh** can. And the poor, well no amount of tax incentive is going to get people to take food off the table to put money in the bank.
we all hate earmarks, but let’s tie funding of SCHIP to any Iraq supplemental bill… it’s both or none, Mr. President!
selise @ 109
Very complicated Q. Federal deficits are important. Even more is consumer spending. As long as they can, they will. So personal savings is a net negative, i.e., households in aggregate borrow more than they save.
But I’m convinced that the most important factor is that the world is awash in a sea of excess savings. Part of that stems from perverse econommic policies elsewhere: China, for example, should not be a net saver, but a user of savings with Chinese consumers leading the way. The other part of global excess savings is that economic growth seems to throw off more savings than can be used productively. That’s the fundamental source of all excesses in asset markets during economic booms.
My own theories. A few academic econommists might agree, but don’t think you’d find such explanations in Ec 1 textbooks.
JF @ 114
thank goodness!
what an obscenity that case was.
you could improve this proposal still more by eliminating the corporate income tax altogether, capping the mortgage deduction, applying the estate tax to lower valued estates, taxing all capital gains and dividends as normal income.
Doing this would eliminate large deadweight losses associated with corp income tax compliance, would fix a serious incidence problems (shareholders in whatever phillip morris callls itself now do not pay the corp income tax–smokers do) and would increase pressure toward a national health care system. It would also rationalize corp decision making, and reduce the amount of corp flight from the US, and fake flight by shell corps in the Caymans.
The intention for the corp income tax is to extract money from shareholders, especially those shareholders with an incentive to leave retained earnings in a corporation. Better to tax those shareholders as individuals, than try to do it through their companies. This would also eliminate a huge source of graft, through manipulation of special corp tax provisions (oil depletion allowance, etc) and depreciation schedules on capital goods.
Scarecrow @ 47
Scarecrow, you’ve got your next post: The $30 Bush Tax!
Christy has a new post ready.
New Christy upstairs with a Wake-up
Phoenix Woman @ 120
Nah, that’s my daily post within a post.
Economic efficiecy, from first principles, sez that you tax all income at the same rate. Don’t know of any studies that suggest that the dead weight loss of corporate income tax compliance exceeds that of personal income tax compliance. In fact, I’d guess that the latter is much bigger.
Who pays the tax (i.e., can corps pass it along to customers) depends on the shape of the supply and demand curves. As tobacco is an addictive product, meaning price-inelastic demand, of course smokers pay the tax. But that is not a universal.
Scarecrow @ 47
Bingo,
CORPORATE TREASON AND EXECUTIVE OIL!!!! Business as usual……….
Yes I’m sceaming and yelling with the caps….
$2,400,000,000,000.00. Is that right?
Helen @ 93
Thanks, now we will have to wait and see what happens.
Elliott @ 118
Now this is a valid retro-active reduction in sentence.
Great post – I think many well-meaning, intellegent progressives miss the whole point.
The repugs are more than happy to destroy the fiscal integrity of the Federal government if the money can be funneled to the military-industrial complex, of which the oil industry is a major component.
If they drown the government in red-ink, they can “drown it in the bathtub.” They have successfully undermined the treasury to the point where the fiscal agenda for the next few decades has already been determined.
It means – no single-payer health care, justification for destroying the most successful Federal program of all time – Social Security, more privatization of public assets, and the fiscal mess trickles down to state and federal governments – we can expect to see cutbacks in education and even an abandonment of public schools in some communities.
Those that forget history… The repug party was created to “rebrand” the old whig party – in the 1860’s, they were so corrupt and fiscally irresponsible that they were not longer a viable, electable political party.
They did not go away – they just renamed themselves REPUBLICANS.
They still stand for the same thing – LOOTING THE FEDERAL TREASURY, ENRICHING CORPORATIONS, POLITICALLY CONNECTED INDIVIDUALS, AND THEMSELVES while denying any responsibility for the large majority of U.S. citizens.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 111
this is the shell game thats being pulled on a national level.
the one law fits all constitutional
guarantee is being subverted by the current conservative executive branch of your government.
i am not an American and can see this clearly,probably because i am not immersed in the day to day reality of American life.
i wouldn’t mind betting i am not the only non American who can see this.
Calzee @ 126
Yep.
eCAHNomics @ 124
No it is not universal. The incidence of the tax depends, as you say, on the elasticities in both labor and consumer markets. But the incidence is certainly not as intended–on capital holders.
At the margin, having one simpler personal income tax would necessarily have a lower cost of compliance than a corp and a personal income tax. Even if both were simply administered (and the question of what “income” is is more complicated for a corporate entity than for an individual) the decision of where to have the income shows up all by itself complicates things.
But the real reason I’d most like to get rid of it, aside from all the people who think they are taxing “ExxonMobil” when they are really taxing some indeterminate set of people, people that may very well include those expressing joy at those corporate bastards paying up, is that it takes out all those silly “double taxation” arguments. Tax only individual income, and tax at it the same rate, regardless of source.
that’s what i say.
Under the illusion of liberation, for the Iraqi people and a “War on Terror,” against Osama and his network, the Bush administration and congress have deceived America. The administration aided by Congress leveraged the events of 9/11/2001, and subsequent National Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to its political advantage, embarking on a dangerous course within America and in an area of the world, where unintended consequences are the norm.
The lack of fact and historical context to the War in Iraq, a gigantic void in our past and current decision making process, is evidenced, if by nothing else, the decades long, senseless loss of life in Iraq, which continues to date, under occupation.
One fact is undeniable. An organism’s inability or unwillingness to adapt to a changing environment is extinction. America’s failure to aggressively develop clean and efficient alternative energy sources in a growing world energy market over a thirty year period is displaying such inability to adapt. The demonstrably ill effects of two prior oil embargoes, recent history, on America has been eviscerated from our collective memory and the “logic of reason,” replaced by instilments, so pleasurable and numerous given our finite affluence, that we are incapable of grasping the inevitable consequences of our actions. However, in spite of conscience attempts by our political leaders to digress and manipulate issues, for their political livelihood, reality provides simple truths.
Americans are yearning for responsible local, state and national leadership addressing real issues and taking reasoned measures to address those issues.
The “Iraq War” is symptomatic of America’s addiction to oil. Seldom is the relationship between oil and terror discussed, nor are the histories of oil rich countries and American and British involvement really brought to light in the mainstream media. Also ignored are the suppressed national movements of oil rich countries attempting to exercise self-determination and control of their natural resources. Movements, not unlike ours here in America, squashed and crushed by corporate oil’s considerable clout via US and British military operations and covert actions, again manifest in Iraq.
Today the petroleum industry prospers, by shifting the cost of the “Iraq War,” what is essentially a start up cost, to the American taxpayer on money borrowed from foreign interests. This reality, when viewed against a backdrop of forever increasing energy costs ($90.00 per barrel oil) in addition to the loss of fathers, mothers, sons, daughters and non-combatants in an untenable “Iraqi War,” while the perpetrators of 911 have not been eradicated is absurd.
Energy is the most important issue facing our democracy. However, instead of fostering corporate oil off its “cash cow” to “begrudgingly” assist in vital and necessary “energy adaptations,” consistent with “Natural Selection,” this administration overstated the threat to America’s national security. Under the paternalistic tone of a “War on Terror,” started the “Iraq War,” on intentionally, misleading, cherry-picked intelligence thereby “protecting” the interests of the petroleum industry.
Herein lies, t(r)eason when in the interest of political/economic expediency “Reason,” is replaced by the servile prejudices of policy makers, using the “executive powers” of the presidency of the United States and our military, not for the benefit of American society and the general welfare of the governed, but rather to guarantee corporate oil’s stranglehold on America and profit, while enabling America’s oil addiction,”
Iraq’s occupation and subjugation of its right to self determination, to western interests is a continuation of existing policy, patently inconsistent with the American values.
Self-sacrifice for family and friend in a legitimate “War on Terror” is honorable and a necessary cost in protecting god given “reason” and freedoms, secured by the rule of law, from the ravages of misguided religious and secular intolerances, absolutisms and greed, both foreign and domestic. However, for this American, it is impossible to justify and equate that same cost, to secure a foreign barrel of Iraqi, Al-Anbar Province extracted, “Executive Oil.”
This is all me Scarecrow, 100%
But I’m convinced that the most important factor is that the world is awash in a sea of excess savings. Part of that stems from perverse econommic policies elsewhere: China, for example, should not be a net saver, but a user of savings with Chinese consumers leading the way.
Respectfully – PATENT NONSENSE!!!!!
Surely you understand that “savings” do not sit in bank vaults – money never sits in a box – it’s too valuable, after all, its money…
Savings do get spent and can stimulate our economy – you are looking for complex answers to simple questions and basing it on ECON 101 theories that have no merit in the real world.
People don’t save because:
(1). We have become a culture of consumption – exactly the opposite of what America was several generations ago. This was accomplished with Berney’s principles of propaganda – the same princples that hitler used to dupe the German public.
(2). More and more American’s are living paycheck to paycheck – the crap you have heard over the past 6 years about how great the economy is doing and the effectiveness of tax cuts are all lies – propaganda from the same economic interests and mainstream media that created the culture of consumption.
Now they are prepared to stike Iran, while Bin Lauden is still free. I think this adminstrationn suffers from ADD.
eCAHNomics @ 124
ah….. more economic theories that bear little or no relationship to the real world. Models like this are created to justify econonomic and political agendas to give them faux intellectual justification – EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF REAL SCIENCE.
This is the only “science” where when reality does not match economic models, the divergence from reality is either assumed away or a special class of goods/services is created so that the lies of the original theory can still be used for propaganda purposes.
Actually – it isn’t science at all.
Elliott @ 118
YES!!!!
James Joyce @ 135
Precicely – this is how they get away with so much criminality – but they are getting what they want; enriching themselves, the military-industrial complex, and their supporters far beyond avarice; and are all laughing all the way to the bank at statements like this.
Call them stupid, incompetent, or whatever – THEY ARE STILL GETTING AWAY WITH IT!
Don’t be so quick to accept this package of tax change proposals without close analysis.
First off, repeal of the alternative minimum tax is described first as beginning to affect the upper middle class (true) and then is included in “all these benefits (that) go to the middle class or near poor.” Doing away with the alternative minimum tax is actually a gigantic cut for the wealthy. May I repeat, a gigantic cut for the wealthy. One can save it from affecting the middle and other working class by indexing it to inflation.
And that brings me to, secondly, why not index the taxing of social security to inflation? (and make a catch up calculation for all the years since 1987 when, I believe, social security first became taxable.
I am afraid that all you will see come out of Rangel’s proposals as law will be the repeal of the alt min and lowering of the corporate tax by 4%. Count 2 wins for the Republicans.
Things Come Undone @ 101
Not just the Republican candidates…but also those that intend to keep residual forces (how many? how long?) in Iraq, and those that say they will consider using military strikes against Iran.
If they won’t take any decision of the table they need to tell us what Social Services and other things they will cut to pay for these misadventures.
littlebear @ 138
I still content the 1933 Business Plot is being realized here. If not for WWII and the massive military economics, FDR would have been ousted from power. The corporate interests back then, made millions off of the war effort. The same interess benfiting from the “morphed” police action (WAR) against a terrorist network. We did not spend 2.4 trillion dollar when the Oklahoma Federal Building was decimated by the Anerican Terrorist, who was a former member of the armed forces, Tim McViegh?
Perpetual war and perpetual profits.
I wonder if IKE is spewing vomit in his grave??
James Joyce @ 141
Remember – chimpy’s grandfather was the public face that financed hitler’s rise to power – but he was acting in the interests of other economic/political groups that know they need to stay in the background to maintain their elite positions of power.
Here’s a short video that lays it all out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8AdSHKywEU
Justice in Georgia, for at least, one man!!
SanderO @ 55
Sounds like Argentina or Weimar Germany when the governments didn’t have enough revenue to actually fund the social system…of course the value of the currency plummetted and they just kept printing more (had to keep those government officials wages at parity to inflation). When the pensions of WWI vets failed to keep up they rioted (same thing happened in Washington DC about the same time but were the ones actually attacked). In Germany and Argentina those soldiers joined charismatic fascist parties with redeeming nationalists. Both blamed the “Bankers” (with an ugly ethnic stereotyping in Germany…with little real link to the number or wealth of Jews by then).
I wonder if these folks even realize what they are generating and are planning on fleeing with suitcases of renmimbi to China, or sumpthin’.
littlebear @ 143
Dodd has more knowledge of this time than he is letting on. His dad was the US German Ambassodor, remembers Helmet, executed by the NAZIS for his dissent and opposition to Hitler.
Paul Steiger, might want to do a comprehensive journalistic investigation of this buried piece of American history, I see a common thread here, which clearly connects the two. Healthcare is a huge transfere of wealth, similar to the New Deal and represents a huge threat to the “American Aristoracy.”
Every warning of Jeffe3rson, Madison, Franklin Washington, Ike is ignored……. especially by the compromised MSM Popoganda corporate controlled brainwshers in little black boxes.
Jim Clausen @ 10
I am extremely suspicious of the numbers here. I did a post two years ago and the costs I saw independent folks talking about 2 Trillion then. The estimated costs for future treatment of PTSD afflicting the troops from the ‘government’ appear to be far, far understated.
Remember that understating or outright lies about costs are a BushCo specialty.
Scarecrow @ 70
When Bush/Cheney say that they are going to WW3 Iran (and perhaps Russia) anyone with a lick of knowledge about the region gets shivers. They know that Bahrain is composed of 70% Shiites (all non-voting); Kuwait 30% Shiite; UAE 16%; Saudi Arabia (10%); more in western Pakistan, not to mention the situation with SCIRI (Badr Brigades) and the Mahdi Army in Iraq. Attack Iraq and you have riots against US oil installations and offices and ports. Oil exports drop to near zero…and that’s not even including the difficulty of shipping through the Straits of Hormuz.
itwasntme @ 112
Be careful…these types of fogs can be really dangerous and cause respiratory sickness. The notorious London Fog resulted in over 1000 dead! Tell people to wear masks due to the smoke and airborne contaminants!
cinnamonape @ 148
These guys will risk it all to protect thier real god, “a cash cow,” our gas tanks……….
Like the alcoholic, they think in a haze of perverted self interst, short term profit in the face of premature death!!
eCAHNomics @ 117
The Chinese household saver was only allowed into the Stock Market a few years ago. Suddenly that’s been booming, as this is one of the few economic vehicles avails other than savings, to them. They can’t invest through other methods since the rest of the economic system is still frozen by the government. They can’t invest in real estate, for example. So they now have a huge iunflow of cash to invest, yet the corporations are restricted in how much they can control companies.
So they invest abroad! This is one way that the Chinese has ended up with so many of these unprotected mortgage notes. The banks were buying them up since this was an expanding market with the housing boom. Seemed a good risk (they were suckered in just as much by the “equity in the home” argument and ignored the possibility that suddenly many people would foreclose and they’d be holding mortgages in a time of lowered demand.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl…..880385.htm
cinnamonape @ 148
Real numbers……….310,000,000 x 460 gal per capita x 3.00 per gallon. (2006) Now adjust the numbers for each of the past 50 years in real dollars. The number is staggering! So much money spent on “Energy!!”
No doubt the tax code has a classist bias to it, but the Iraq war spending has something far more pernicious, which all of us need to consider. Americans as a whole whine a lot about their taxes, but to add to the world wide havoc we have created by our invasion and occupation of Iraq–the various and unending human tragedies–we as a nation are pinning the cost onto our children and grandchildren at interest. It is obscene.
Why the Democrats don’t demand as a rider to any war funding, a special across the board progressive income tax, which exempts soldiers and their families, and places a special value added tax on war profiteers, is beyond me. Let Bush veto it. Bring it before the nation at large; let the chips fall where they may. You want an effective anti war movement; go after people’s pocket books. In America, money talks; everything else is a heap of bs.
Elliott @ 118
Definitely. The judge did good! I heard during the Clinton impeachment from people in the know that many kids don’t consider oral sex as “Sex”…and that in many areas in the South it’s the preferred act as it isn’t “scr**wing”. There was one town where, despite the high number of Christian evangelicals there was a gonorrhea epidemic amongst churchgoing HS kids. It was scandalous, at least to their parents, who had no clue in the change of social mores.
CitizenE @ 153
MLK and civil rights was all about money?? Money perpetuate BS, in the face of a reasoned merit based approach.
Tobacco money perpetuated the myth that butts do not cause cancer. Merit based reasoned common sense, disproved this claim that claimed the lives of million of Ameruicans unknowingly addicted to nicotine by the intentional and willful manipulation of the facts and disinformation, Sounds like Iraq and WMD, execept in this instance hey were caught fabricating uina much quicker period of time. And little is said. I’m not very religious, but Christ did use simple stories to make simple points. Keep it simple keep it sweet. People will understand………
Natural Selection, Corporate T(r)eason and “Executive OIL”
James Joyce @ 146
Dodd’s father, Paul, wasn’t German Ambassador. He was the Executive Attorney during the Nuremburg Trials, convicting a score of high-ranking Nazis and Concentration Camp officers for War Crimes.
Ironically, after he became Senator and served two terms, he was defeated by Prescott Bush in the next election that swept Ike into office.
cinnamonape @ 156
My stupidity. However I still contend C. Dodd knows a hell of a lot more than he is letting on about how close we are to loosing the inherhent restrictions put on Government, by our Constitution, and how it is being systmatically undermined, under the color of law. Thanks for the “hockey puck” hitting my brain!!!!!
James Joyce @ 155
Sweet and simple, pro-war, anti war, we’re ripping off our children and grandchildren. Period.
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.
Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson
Our current leaders have done a wonderful job!!
Here’s the thing: US Government programs in health care currently in existence already cost the same per capita as universal health care in Canada without providing service to all. I can’t say that the Canadian system is perfect, or even “great” – there is plenty of room for improvement – but it is certainly a “good” system. Why couldn’t universal health care in the US happen using existing funds plus startup/transition costs? What benefit to society does the 40% profit magin in health insurance serve? Sadly, I think the answer is politcal more than practical.
The current state of health care makes me uneasy when I visit friends and family in the US.
- Miles
p.s.: As a side note, one of the greatest pressures that the Canadian health care system faces is having a neighbour to the south where a doctor can easily make three times as much money for the same or fewer hours/week of work (not that doctors here are poorly paid).
HEADLINES: Bush Spent Your Social Security Surplus In Iraq!
US Government estimate of cost of Iraq and Afghanistan wars: $2.4 trillion.
Amount of Social Security surplus bush inherited from Clinton: $2 trillion.
Honorable mention for this travesty goes to Congressional republicans, Alan Greenspan, US corporate media, and of course the 5 members of the US Supreme Court who foisted the bush disasters upon us.
masaccio @ 97
I’ve pondered for several decades (off and on) what we should tax, what we should subtract from the economy. Reading this thread has inspired me to consider something I said recently along with things being said in this thread.
I generally argue government should protect our freedom and in some cases empower us (education system, banking system, etc.) and govern bad or unwanted behaviors.
With regard to taxes the key fundamental question is “What do we want to tax?” Is it it consumption, investment, profits, all commercial activity (including employee pay)?
If we are to be free then perhaps a tax should be on something we want to govern, something harmful.
Maybe we should tax/govern the thing this blog has highlighted for some time (in discussions on the economy and money) — wealth disparity.
If you tax corporate wealth you harm productivity. If you tax the use of resources with a consumption tax you tell people NOT to consume, not to use, not to produce.
However, if you tax ‘excess personal income’, then you strike at the heart of the imbalance in wealth.
Is it equal treatment under the law to tax someone who makes $30 million a year, but not someone who makes $30 thousand a year? NO.
So, how do you do it?
I say we should all pay the same tax rate, but we should also provide a basic tax deduction (or perhaps set of deductions) so that cost of living isn’t taxed.
Example: income (of any kind) taxed at 35% with a deduction per person of $30,000.
What would be the revenue to the government? You’d have to adjust the numbers to ensure the government received enough revenue.
One would think that a 0% corporate tax rate would be good for business. The only problem would be where individuals self-incorporate to hid personal income or where people use corporate assets for personal use, also to hide personal wealth.
Do we really want to tax corporate activities? Not if we want commercial prosperity.
Do we want to tax poor people who live paycheck to paycheck? No.
What do we want to tax? That which causes society a problem should be hindered.