Barack Obama really needs to put down the shovel.
It was bad enough when he decided to tour with anti-gay entertainer Donnie McClurkin. Dog whistle to Southern conservatives he feels he needs to enfranchise? Who knows. But rather than cut McClurkin from the show when it became a controversy, Obama — much like his mentor Slummy Joe Lieberman before him — went running to the HRC for the Gay Housekeeping Seal of Approval and thought he could have it both ways.
Um, no.
“The Obama campaign is trying to bridge real divides and bring people together. Two things are certain: We will never be able to bridge those divides if we are unwilling to listen to voices we don’t agree with, and we will never change anyone’s mind if we refuse to talk to him,” Griffs said in a statement.
Cute. No one said you couldn’t talk to him. But putting him up on stage as your mascot in a bald bid for money and votes, that’s pretty gross. And pretending that it’s not what you’re doing, that you somehow decided to showcase a bigot in order to prove how pro-gay you really are, is simply perverse.
And then — who could have imagined? — Obama made things even worse.
It boggles the mind that the Obama campaign would select a white pastor to deal with a situation that is awash in black homophobia. Politics 101.
Rev. Sidden is supposed to counter the presence of the recloseted/now-decloseted anti-gay Grammy winning gospel singer Donnie McClurkin at the “Embrace the Change” concerts in South Carolina, sponsored by the Obama campaign. Sadly, Sidden is now an unfortunate victim in this debate. I’m sure that whatever message he would deliver would be sensitive and entirely appropriate in many ways, but part of the message has to be that you can be black and gay, and black and gay-affirming. Barack Obama is clearly showing he doesn’t understand the need of the religious black community to see one of their own deliver that message.
Gotta give it up for Aravosis and the GLBT blogosphere. They have really hammered this thing, and the narrative has taken root in the traditional media — at a time when Obama can least afford to have this kind of backlash.
I once said that Obama and Hillary didn’t need the netroots, they just needed us not to hate them. Throwing your arms around someone who thinks being gay is a “sickness” is such hypocrisy from someone purporting to put forward a message of “hope” and “unity” it’s hard to even wrap your head around. Obama has rightly earned the enmity of liberal bloggers and those who value GLBT rights and his unwillingness to cut McClurkin loose is either a sign of his true colors or his desperation, and it almost doesn’t matter which.
It’s just plain ugly regardless of how you slice it.



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This Obama/McClurkin thing has brought me down….
Joe-Bama!
Jane!
missed it by that much
Go Jane!
Pam’s been all over this thing the last few days.
Obama is coming to resemble nothing so much as an id10t.
Good thing I didn’t want to vote for him anyway.
I am usually a lurker but cannot believe Obama’s lack of political awareness on this issue. It also shows a real lack of cognizance regarding LGBT issues in the black community.
You’re right, Jane.
Anyone let downstairs know there’s a new thread?
still time for singles?
IMHO Obama’s flaws are just beginning to show
If I am right, the Democratic Party will be spared an embarrasing defeat which could have resulted from this candidacy getting too far to walk away from.
I think the Senator’s oratorial gift outstrips the substance of his convictions and his actions.
Can’t we all just get along?
Obama lost me when his campaign manager wasn’t fired for voicing what was later identified as his own opinion (altho’ I can’t remember what the opinion was about today due to work brain drain – sorry) AND when Obama’s campaign set out that an impeachment investigation would be too ‘devisive’ for the country.
any McLurkers out there?
mack @ 11
I thought Alexrod was supposed to be a shrewd operator? How can he let Obama do stupid stuff like this? While it falls 95% on Obama, and tells me he’s not ready for prime time, it also says Axelrod isn’t all he’s cracked up to be either.
Thank you Jane. I am an AmericaBlog reader and have been following this for a few days now. I am really disappointed. My sister and her kids really like Obama, have met him in person and been charmed by him.
“Slummy Joe Lieberman…Obama’s mentor!
Thank you Jane, for telling it like it is. I have gotten troll rated anytime I have said the same thing.
Yep, you could see something like this coming as Obama’s so green he’s dripping behind the ears. And you could even guess what the issue would be, as there is a thread in the Black community that is qite homophobic. That became apparent a few years ago when the issue of gay marriage hotted up and some Blacks severely resented the comparison with anti-misecegenation laws.
Sha @ 16
Me too, and on my own blog, but it’s the truth.
10 months to the Democratic Convention. A lot could happen. Could be the MSM will have used up all its powder on its pre-planned script of Obama vs. HRC and will have to start reporting things that actually happen.
Look for Dodd to start getting coverage?
Sha @ 16
yep, the tea-party clutches their pearls when a commenter says things like that, even if accompanied by a citation:
Jane Hamsher @ 18
707! u troll!
This canyon dig of Obama’s within this issue puts Obama’s readiness and willingness to appease monsters for political gain front and center. I haven’t trusted him from the beginning but gave him some benefit of the doubt. After all, I didn’t know who he really is or who he might become. I do now.
It’s all over but the shouting.
Jane Hamsher @ 18
Jane, I personally think it would be both extremely rude AND extremely dumb for someone to have the audacity to insult you on your own blog.
But I also recognize there are an awful lot of id10ts floating around the toobz.
A couple of the New Hampshire firepups commented not long ago that they had met Obama on several occasions as he campaigns there and described him as “an empty suit.” These missteps seem to reinforce that opinion and show an apparent political naivete which causes me great concern.
all this talk of trollrating reminds i need to go login to dKos and kick hillary for awhile!
OT but Bill Clinton’s “How dare you” outrage at the question of whether or not 9/11 was an inside job speaks to how the ruling elites will always go to bat for other ruling elites regardless of what party they may be from. It’s all about money and class solidarity.
obama is way too young, way too inexperienced and way too manueverable to be running for president
he had to create a platform he knew the democrats cared about, he needed to make it his own and he needed to get the people to have the same passion
he never did that
instead he tried to “wing it”, he tried to ad lib, figure it out as he went along.
if he reclaims his independance, reclaims his pregressive roots, then in the future he can run again but what we did not need is someone who let his “handlers” coreograph his passion and platform
Lagunatic @ 24
Anyone who thinks that the solution for partisanship politics with these wingnut Rs is that we should all just get along is either any empty suit or is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
OT but it looks like Mark Penn, who has been described as “Hillary Clinton’s Karl Rove” is going to be coming here, to FDL, for a chat tomorrow regarding his new book. Be sure to click on the link and then start getting your questions ready now!
What saddens me most about all of this is that we finally have 2 very viable candidates who are not white men – & I can’t support either (unless & until I have to, which means against a R). I really wanted to like both of them but they are both running overly scripted DLC-type campaigns & I have had more than enough of people promising things (or avoiding things) to get elected. I want to hear what candidates really believe in & even if I don’t completely agree, I might end up voting for him/her just because they are passionate about their beliefs (rather than passionate their job security).
Clueless. I don’t want to be united with the fools Obama’s penciled in on my dance card.
If you have any doubt about Obama, call (or call on) his offices in Illinois and see if you can find anyone who can spell policy, much less discuss it.
His contributors do have very attractive daughters, though.
Contrast with Durbin’s staff and you will find a significant difference.
Incompetence is not exclusively Republican (but it helps).
Obama is a greenhorn in need of a decade or two of seasoning in the senate. then let’s talk.
barhop @ 29
Y’know, the idea that any candidate could be described as having a Karl Rove is just an enormous turn-off for me.
Yesterday at Dailykos someone had a diary about putting Bush in a straitjacket. Someone commented that “of course we would never put him in a gayjacket….”
I was so excited about Obama when he announced he was running, and yet so scared that something bad would happen. It usually does. Nobody ends up being as nice and clean and hopeful as they appear to be. I’m reluctant to let him go because the Clinton alternative still seems worse to me. I’m going to be wrestling with this one. Oh and BTW, if he wanted to be associated with a gay rights group, running to the HRC so soon after they tossed the Trans people under the bus over ENDA is not such a smart move either.
EvilDrPuma @ 34
Rahm likes to be referred to in this fashion as well.
Nuff said.
I’ve said since day one that Obama’s an empty suit: his embrace of Joe Lieberman, his mentor, proved that much earlier in his career.
He deserves to lose the primary and I hope he does.
Bluetoe @ 26
when did he do that?
mack @ 37
Indeed.
punaise @ 33
Ding!
SadieSue @ 30
Dodd/Lee!
Great speakers, both.
SadieSue @ 30
My sentiments exactly.
How is this any different from Reagan kicking off his 1980 presidential campaign in Philidelphia, Mississippi? For Reagan it was a dog whistle for the racists in this country. For Obama his gay-hating stage buddy is a dog whistle for gay haters, particularly in the black community. And then, to improve on his image, Barack Obama is reaching out to the wife-beater constituency with his embracing of Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
Seriously, is the black community so devoid of role models that this is the best the Obama campaign can do? I can’t believe that. Feel the “Barry”-mentum.
mack @ 32
I called a lot prior to passage of the odious Military Commsions Act, to see if the junior senator had managed to formulate an opinion on it yet.
of course, he had not.
barhop @ 29
Here’s my Q: name a difference, any difference (besides gender) between Hillary & W.
eCAHNomics @ 46
Hillary speaks grammatical English.
eCAHNomics @ 28
When Obama said he could work with some Republicans, “Like my good friend Tom Coburn”, that did it for me. We need a President who will “gut” the Right Wing Conspiracy. Dodd, Edwards, Clinton.
Yes I’m disppointed in Obama but supporting Hillary, considering her 2002 vote on the Iraq war resolution, is much harder to swallow. And not voting for a Democrat because they don’t meet the checklist is supremely idiotic because that will ensure a GOP victory. Many good Democrats did not vote for Gore in 2000 because they though he lacked authenticity and now we see where that got us. Maybe Edwards although he is just as calculating, in my opinion as Hillary. Though he does want to address Obama. I just think if we allow a single slipup to cause us to withdraw support for an otherwise legitimate candidate President Romney or Guiliani may be invading Iran in 2010.
EvilDrPuma
I stand corrected.
eCAHNomics @ 50
No need to do that. Have a seat.
hey, any big plans to participate in the nationwide antiwar rallies tomorrow? i was expecting a trumpeting for call to arms (or disarms)… if i missed it, my bad.
http://www2.oct27.org/
OT but very relevant. For those of you not listening to the hearing on cost of war on C-SPAN2, it’s really worth it. Only 1 R there at the peak and no Rs there for most of it. Too bad MSM doesn’t focus on that.
EvilDrPuma @ 47
707!
Wow. Obama’s team is too stupid to handle the Right Wing’s Assault, and Edwards handicapped himself by accepting public funding. Is there nothing we can do to stop Clinton?
Jonathan Goldberg @ 49
fukit, your fear is what propels the notion of “lessor of two evils!”
eCAHNomics @ 53
Is this a repeat? There was IIRC a hearing yesterday where the chair asked if the Rs had been informed and was told that ll proper protocols had been followed meaning the Rs had been told 3 days in advance. And I believe it was on “war” funding.
re Obama:
The disconnect between our political leaders and We da People is just amazing. Sometimes I think they should all be required to live and work among us for a couple years and get some reality training before entering public life.
tw3k @ 42
Oh, I’m all for Chris Dodd or John Edwards. I love them both. It’s just that I remember how I felt when Geraldine Ferraro was nominated for VP & I’d love to replicate that feeling by seeing someone other than a white male in the White House. But I would infinitely prefer it not be either of these candidates.*
*exceptions will reluctantly be made for the general election
Jonathan Goldberg @ 49
speaking for myself, this “slipup” doesn’t chop down the tree of obama so much as further shine light on the fact that behind the nice foliage, there is no trunk.
and there is nothing that says that this is a 2 person race… edwards has always been a viable candidate, and dodd is coming on real strong. for once we have real contenders that look good on their own merits, and not just in comparison to republicans.
Obama doesn’t lead…
and he gives me the willies still.
OT – anyone see this? Bush cut fire preparedness budgets and insisted on outsourcing:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..69980.html
Unfortunately, the MSM never goes after these things so Bush will get off free once again.
dakine01 @ 57
Yes, it’s a replay from yesterday, but I missed it then. The witnesses are really great. Actually what I heard was that the Rs had been informed 7 days in advance.
global yokel @ 58
Yes!!! I don’t think anyone should be allowed to run for anything unless & until they’ve lived an ordinary paycheck-to-paycheck life.
eCAHNomics @ 46
-Intelligence
-Work Ethic
-Compassion
seebach @ 55
accepting public funding is not a handicap… unless you want the best prez corporate money can buy again
SadieSue @ 59
I don’t follow you.
1,367 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
First Rahm Emmanuel and then, back to back (and belly to belly?), the Black Joe Lieberman tryin ta tiangulate gays right back inta the closet…yer on a roll, honey!
But “Obama and Hillary didin’t need the netroots, they just needed us not to hate them” is right on! Obama and Mrs. Clinton HAVE turned the netroots actively away from them and , I believe, the general population has been expressin’ it’s dislike for BOTH of ‘em in the negatives in the polls and in negative “trust” numbers that keep growin’ for both of ‘em. As usual, regular folks like my 83 year-old mother are way ahead of us “professional citizens” and have long ago figured out Mrs. Clinton and her valet, Barak O’Lieberman.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION SOME A THESE BASTARDS ARE GUNNA TRIANGULATE THEMSELVES RIGHT INTA THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY!!
OldCoastie @ 61
Obama is like Cuomo & one or two other outstanding examples of politicians who give a great speech or two, leading everyone to think they’re all-round terrific. But it turns out, all they can do is give a great speech or two.
Solai
I’ll give you intelligence & work ethic, but not compassion.
I think Jeffery Toobin mentioned a perfect role for Obama, a Justice for the Supreme Court!
Yesterday Broder wrote another clueless, tone deaf op-ed piece, this one bemoaning the Obama campaign’s decline as a function of the Clinton campaign’s brilliant outmanuevering. I wrote Broder an e-mail–no doubt to be ignored–telling him that no, the Obama campaign has fizzled in direct relation to his failure to stand up and lead and his unwillingness to take the fight to the Repubs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02336.html
solai @ 65
amen. as much as i dislike hillary, there is still no comparing her to W… a republican, yes, but a smart engaged republican at least
CTuttle @ 71
Wouldn’t trust him there either. He’d go along to get along, head of Harvard Law Review or not. In fact, iirc, that’s how he got elected, but someone correct me if I’m wrong.
OT: hold good thoughts for OldCoastie:
Fire bears down on Silverado homes
2:08 PM PDT, October 26, 2007
Authorities warn that flames could reach structures in less than an hour. Firefighters spray houses with fire-resistant gel and try to evacuate dozens of residents in the community.
eCAHNomics @ 74
He was also a Constitutional Law Professor at U of Chicago Law School…
dachoste @ 73
Actually, intelligence & work ethic could make her more dangerous than W. Think of all the damage he’d have done if he’d worked harder.
seebach @ 55
Work like bees on behalf of Chris Dodd or John Edwards. Either one works well for me as my hopes fade Gore will allow a draft.
1,637 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen eCAHNomics:
“Obama is like Cuomo & one or two other oustanding examples of politicians who give a great speech or two…”
Oooops, eCAHN, but don’t EVER equate Obama to Cuomo. Compared ta Cuomo, Obama is an intellectual featherweight who has never taken a tough stand or used his power of elected position to advance ANYthin’ in the people’s interest. Mario Cuomo kept intellect and intellectual honesty alive in the age of Reagan while playin’ Horatio At the Bridge in New York durin’ the first political Dark Ages of Reagan fascism.
KEEP THE FAITH AND WATCH OUT FOR THE UHMGAWA!!
eCAHNomics @ 70
Well, I think a president Hillary would put FEMA back together. And I don’t think the NOLA screw-ups would have happened under her watch (or any dem). And I think she’ll come up with a healthcare program. (I don’t think it will be the best…but it will be better than it is now). I think all social programs will get a shot in the arm .
Mind you, I’m not rooting for her, but she would be infinitely better than the meglomaniacs running the show now.
Where we’ll lose is in her concessions to big business. But it won’t be the horror show we’re now living through.
Bluetoe @ 26
Funny thing is, Bill wasn’t born into that class. He obviously sold out lock, stock and barrel though.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 79
Oh I don’t know. As a citizen of NYS which he ruled for 2-3 terms, I was not impressed.
CTuttle @ 76
At least he wasn’t in U of Chicago’s Econ department. That’s where the Kudlow and Friedman lovers all seem to come from.
solai @ 80
Putting FEMA back together would not represent compassion, just good politics.
hey! not burned out yet… Silverado is north of me… any dog people have an idea what I can do for my pup? She’s about to scratch her skin off… I’m assuming it is allergies from the smoke and soot and very dry skin from the weather… she’s lab/sharpei/shepherd mix… I’m thinking “add oil” to her diet but I don’t want to upset her stomach on top of everything else. Maybe a little benadryl too…
SadieSue @ 59
I know it is from a male prospective, but how about Lynn Woolsey, Sheila Jackson-Lee or Barbara Lee?
EvilDrPuma @ 47
More precisely, Hillary spews her doubletalk in grammatical sentences.
As for “compassion” (per eCahnomics), tell it to the Iraqis she helped kill through the AUMF vote she’s never renounced and to the Iranians she’s just done her level best to help incinerate by voting for Lieberman-Kyl.
Sorry, but she needs to be kept the hell out of the White House by any lawful means available, short of the election of a Republican.
Spot on, Jane!
I am black, gay, and I have relatives in the South (now you know why I live in Berkeley).
It always chafes my hide when blacks act as though discrimination against gays is somehow far-removed from racial discrimination.
Bottom line: Racism=Sexism=Homophobia. There is no difference. There is no excuse.
eCAHNomics @ 84
I would think it would also represent good economics as well wouldn’t it? I mean having an effective and efficient emergency agency would seem to be in the best interests of the economy.
seebach @ 55
How did he handicap himself? If polls improve before the end of the year, he can back out.
OldCoastie @ 85
Hugs, OldCoastie, I’m so glad to hear you’re OK!
Wish I knew what to tell you for the pup but I don’t.
OT–Did anyone else watch one of Chris Matthews most odious performances ever on Hardball (and that’s saying a lot)? And to think he looked so shell-shocked the other day when Stephanie Miller called him a “right-wing tool.” He lost no time in featuring panty-sniffing Clinton biographer Sally Bedell Smith for a Clinton-bashing session so blatant that ol’ Sally was defending the Clintons. Among other things, he called Hillary a “fraud” and asked a question about what happens if the Democrats are “stuck with her,” will Bill be an “embarrassment” during the campaign, wink-wink….One need not be a Hillary fan to find this way beyond the pale and so different from the reverential Giuliani treatment. Hope others catch the rerun.
1,637 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen CTuttle and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“He was also a Constitutional Law Professor at the University of Chicago Law School..”
That in itself is a “tell” if there ever was one. My sister is a U of C grad who lives in Hyde Park…if ya wanna know about Barak O’Lieberman jest ask Bobby Rush and the real folks on the South Side.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BITE ON THE HEAD FAKES!!
John Aravosis is a bigot and trans phobe! Given his recent throwing of the TG community under the bus so the LGBT community will be “more appealing” to heteros, I find his outrage of Obama rather unconvincing and hypocritical. Tell me, what’s the difference between John Aravosis throwing the TG community under a bus over the ENDA bill to attract phantom tolerant GOP lawmakers to support legislation that doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of being signed by Bush and Obama throwing the gay community under another bus to court black “values voters” who are never going to vote for a pro choice Democrat anyway? I, for one don’t see any difference except in the details. Aravosis was very eloquent and fierce in “justifying” ridding himself of the TG community but now we’re supposed to applaud him? Go ahead. I don’t support the FOTF, The FRC. The KKK or John Aravosis!
OldCoastie @ 85
Hmmm…plenty of water, 5mg benadryl (halve that if she’s under 45lbs) might help. Is she long or short haired? You can add about 1-2tsp cod liver oil to her food but you won’t see immediate results. If she’s relatively short haired, a soothing bath might help — use something extremely mild for the shampoo and then use Mane & Tail conditioner after thorough rinsing. Keeping her inside as much as possible may help… :-( The wind is coming offshore now, at least in Irvine — how is the smoke over there?
This is what’s needed: Spineocrat – spinal growth supplement for Democrats.
10/17/07 cartoon at http://www.markfiore.com/
Margot @ 91
If you can find some shea butter or lotion with it in it try that.Shea Butter
Oh, and when it comes to FEMA, I’m very alert to moral hazards. In the case of Katrina, it was the Army Corps levies that failed, not bad behavior on the part of NOers. (You could ask a separate Q about whether we should construct levies to protect NO, but that was not in the behavioral calculations of the people who’ve been living there for decades.) In the case of CA wild fires, I think that programs like FEMA encourage bad behavior, like building in canyons where your house is highly likely to get consumed by wild fire. Think those home owners ought to pay full cost & taxpayers not. For awhile it looked like the Feds were getting smarter about not providing flood insurance & moving people out of areas that flood frequently, but, as usual, pandering to local voters won out over sensible economic policy. Haven’t seen any attempt to make people who build in CA canyons held responsible for their decisions, though I’m on the other coast & may be unaware of what’s actually happening.
O @ 85
Glad to hear you’re okay, they’re really worried about the fire going over the ridge both directions.
Have you tried ‘Derm-Caps’? The vet had me trying it on my cat. It helped – but a b&w cat has problems around here in the summer. (Some of it was fleas.)
dakine01 @ 89
No, not good economics. See my 98 which I was typing while you were posting.
eCAHNomics @ 98
I understand where you’re coming from, I really do. But do you know that many of the houses that burnt down in OC were well over 30 years old?
eCAHNomics @ 84
I remember the “Bad old Clinton” years when FEMA was run by a guy from Arkansas with a rural high school education.
selise @ 39
Tuesday. Here’s the video
peanutbutter @101
If we’re going to get into what’s good policy on this issue, it strikes me that new building ought to be prohibited, and existing home owners should be bought out. Called grandfathering, and is a way of bribing those who would stand in the way of a change that would be productive for the country/economy as a whole.
Now that’s off the top of my head. Haven’t thought of what full implications or unintended consequences might be, but it gives you an idea of how such problems might be handled in a sensible, thoughtful way.
peanutbutter @ 95
she’s 65 pounds, short haired and had a bath yesterday (I thought that might do it but sadly, no)… inside except for “visits” outside… just put some frontline on her just in case there are invisible fleas someplace… smoky here but not as bad as yesterday… I’ll try the Benedryl next… poor puppy! I think she’s just got very sensitive skin (is quite blonde in more ways than one) – used to react to her nylon collar when she was a baby, switched her to leather and that helped…. just tormented by soot…
eCAHN @ 99
Local building codes are tightening up, but maybe not fast enough. Fire-resistant roofing, limited use of exposed wood, and also brush clearance programs. The roofing people tried to get pressure-treated shakes and shingles, but they couldn’t get past the flame tests some areas required. You see a lot of tile roofing, even in cities.
On the other hand, in a firestorm, not much will help: windows explode from the heat, then the building goes anyway.
I tend to agree with Maragaret at 94.
I have seen a big difference between progressive thinking and Democratic Party thinking. It’s important to me that there’s a difference, and they are based on principles.
IMO, if you don’t waffle about principles, you’re a progressive.
If you do waffle about principles, you’re a politician and it makes no difference if there is an R or a D behind your name.
newspaperbrat @ 78
don’t know if it’s true… but at the moment, in my imagination, dodd represents constitutionals checks on presidential power and a repudiation of torture, etc. but edwards represents the possibility of checking the neoliberal imperial orthodoxy that is kissing cousins to the neocon imperial orthodoxy.
and both are needed for a functioning democracy – constitutional limits to power and a strong and secure middle class.
both dodd and edwards have, i think, come to these roles relatively. so in some ways, i’m still not quite convinced (i figured out howard dean way after 2004, so no one should pay any attention to me on this)
but none of that matters at this moment. rewarding good behavior means supporing dodd now.
The truth is no matter who is elected, there are no saviors out there. Frustration goads us to goad those in power, those with a voice–from Jane Hamsher to Obama depending on one’s persuasion. I wish Jane were more influential; I wish there were more there there to Obama, but the prize is mighty and the work will be long. I suppose the real thing to do would be to really get into drafting Al Gore, but when he was a politician, he too, had his garlic breath on at times. Netroots means from the bottom up, does it not?
eCAHNomics @ 104
I have a different understanding of grandfathering. In the zoning/building code realm, it means allowing a non-conforming situation to continue, even though it does not comply with current standards, because it was built legally at the time.
maybe “sunsetting” is closer to the mark?
P J – are the Derm Caps a Petco kind of product? She sheds a lot and doesn’t have much fur to begin with…
Donita upstairs
punaise
Yep, sunsetting would be a better word. Same concept, clearer language.
eCAHNomics @ 113
I caught your drift anyway … :~)
in the long view grandfathering is correct, because the premise is that those structures will ultimately fade away. in practice, because of real estate values, no one allows that to happen.
john in sacramento @ 103
thank you.
i don’t think it was an inside job (not saying there wasn’t an inside ally)… but i really hate that kind of a response.
how dare a citizen ask the question? hello, bill? being a citizen means having the responsibility to and right to ask difficult questions.
OT–
I’ve just been reading Froomkin’s piece, Going It Alone on Iran. I seem to see a piece of this situation that I have not heard much discussed.
Of course, the parallels with the drumbeat to war on Iraq are quite clear. The feigned diplomatic effort, escalating to unreasonable demands that he knows won’t be met, etc.
Here’s part of what I think is happening: This time, differently from last time, he actually decided to see if diplomacy would work (with Iraq, it was a charade from start to finish). But unfortunately, the diplomatic effort started filling up with nuances– and we know how much George hates nuances. I think he hates them because he doesn’t understand nuances, and does not have the intelligence or the patience to deal with them. Of course, nuances are Iran’s stock in trade.
So here’s the equation as I see it:
Cheney’s war lust Bush’s impatience with nuance = War with Iran
Can anyone stop it?
Bob in HI
I’ve seen them at pet stores. Can’t swear to Petco – I won’t be close to one before tomorrow. There should be something similar, anyway: fatty acids and oils, for skin and coat care.
(Ingredients: Fish oil, safflower oil, borage seed oil, dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E) ….)
OldCoastie @ 111
Yeah, though you might find a better source online. I suggested cod liver oil since you shoudl be able to get out and pick some up now. Petco will probably have something.
I had a yellow lab with that same kind of sensitive skin issues. Hot spots left and right, that kind of thing. Mane and Tail (also at petco) seemed to be very helpful.
If it seems to be the soot, I wonder if somehow getting it off her, brushing or just water rinsing, or (cool setting) blow dryer might help?
Do you truly think that Barack Obama is anti-gay, or a homophobe, or doesn’t value tolerance? I don’t.
I am, however, pretty anxious about the consequences of a Republican victory in the 2008 presidential election.
OldCoastie @ 111
I read that as Dem Caps and assumed you were talking about HRC…
bobschacht @ 116
i’ve been thinking the “diplomacy’ was a charade this time too.
we’ve got the pestco and the petsmart and the froo-froo pet boutique close by… I’ll just run down… I just don’t want to have to buy from the vet’s… that gets a little expensive… Mane and Tail – good to know…
As usual, I must humbly agree with Selise. If they had been serious about diplomacy, they wouldn’t have put Condi Rice in charge of it.
OldCoastie @ 105
My cocker, Raven, battled cancer for a couple of years and when he got “tormented” we gave him doggie tranquilzers that calmed him and let him sleep.
raven -with all the 3am “grooming”, I’d give her the tranq just so I could get some sleep! ;-)
I suspect the allergies may be due to inhaling the crud in the air… my big guy is NOT scratching, so I’m guessing it is not fleas, but he has an oiler coat… dry air? maybe… could be a mulititude of things.
Benadryl and a “Derm Cap” type product are my next steps… if those don’t work, a little steroid from the vet’s may be next…
RonD @ 123
add to that, that rice hasn’t actually (to my knowledge) conducted any comprehensive talks with iranian diplomats… and well, i have trouble characterizing bushco’s provocative bullying (starting with the axis-of-evil speech) as diplomacy.
OMG. Brian Williams just reported that Condi met with Jimmy Carter about the ME. Shut my mouth!
raven @ 127
I think Carter actually likes Condi – he’s been pretty kind in his comments about her (unlike the rest of the admin)
OldCoastie @ 125
I hear ya, our little guy had some very bad nights, especially after chemo and radiation.
OldCoastie @ 125
benadryl might help with the sleep too (if it works on pups like it does on humans). good luck to you both, and i’m so glad you’ve made it through the recent troubles.
raven @ 127
first i’ve got to pick my jaw up off the floor.
selise @ 121
Maybe so, but I think this time Admiral Fallon, the CentCom commander, told him it would be idiocy to do it, and talked him out of it– for the time being. That’s the reason he went diplomatic with Condi. Besides, we have the example of North Korea now, how a diplomatic solution worked there. A lot depends on whether Fallon keeps pushing back against military solutions. Picture two suomo wrestlers, Fallon and Cheney, going at it head to head, while the Boy King waits to see who wins.
I did notice that the Middle East command was asking last week for bombers set up to carry nukes.
Bob in HI
thanks, selise… funny thing… today, just a little ways down the street, there was this huge BANG! I ran out the front door and see smoke pouring into the sky 3 doors down around the corner… a trash truck had caught on fire! a propane powered trash truck… the good news was that the fire fighters are RIGHT HERE so they were on scene, literally, 2 minutes after it exploded (no one hurt)… caught the carport on fire and I think singed a car… but it was out in about 10 minutes… on the one hand good, on the other…
I had to ask myself, “good grief! what’s next?!?”
Unacceptable from Obama. He’ll never win. He’s handling this like a rank amateur.
perris @ 27
That’s been my problem with Obama all along. He’s too new. Undoubtedly smart, very charismatic…huge potential.
But he needs some seasoning. He might make a great Veep, though.
bobschacht @ 132
IIRC it was $88 million to retro-fit B-2’s to carry 30k lb bunker-buster bombs. The only place where that combination of aircraft and bomb would be used is Iran.
tw3k @ 67
I guess I logged off too quickly this afternoon (nothing like a bad cold to make one not feel much like chatting) but I just saw this.
I’m not sure what part was unclear but I’ll try to make it clearer. I guess what I was saying was that when Geraldine was nominated I remember feeling as though I really COULD do anything; if a woman was nominated to be VP, then it was true that I truly could dream of being anything (& I say this as a woman brought up by a very “girls can do anything” Mom – it was one thing to hear it & believe it but was another thing all together to SEE it). And I guess I wish that Obama & Hilary could be that for this generation (& for me, too) – the feeling of inclusiveness that I felt at the moment Ferraro’s nomination was announced, when I really realized that Mom was right & I could be whatever I wanted when I grew up.
Does this make any sense? Did I clear up the right part of not following me?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 86
I was just commenting on people actually running for President rather than on who I’d like to see run (a list which is longer than the list of people actually running). From what I know of the women on your list, they would be fine choices.
(((OldCoastie)))
Jane Hamsher @ 18
Me number Jane plus whatever…..And I archived the bookmark to that famously orange place where I received that great honor.
And when next I see The Great Orange Satan I’m gonna ask him why his frontpagers all seem to be…a little full of themselves.
When I saw Obama out of the blue on the cover of Time magazine a year ago, I figured that he must have powerful back room support from the DLC-wing of the Democratic party.
The corporate strategy has always been Tweedledum and Tweedledee. With Obama and Clinton as the pseudo-”opposition” party options, they’ve locked in two “safe” possible candidates for the Democratic ticket who won’t threaten any radical defunding of weaponry or privilege.
There was a great documentary on gangsta rap culture aired on PBS stations not too long ago, broadcast very late at night, far and away better than any documentary produced by the Ken Burns franchise.
The culture is a case of over-compensation to the nth degree. They doth protesteth too much.
Gangsta rap is not gospel, but the fundamentalists ministers in the church plant the homophobia seed that flourishes later on in this culture.
Obama is an arrogant prick who I pegged a short while back (to the distress of some) Now it goes DOUBLE.
I’m working on an op-ed for the “L.A. Times” on McClurkingate which if all goes well should be up early next week.
I think Obama has a problem with gays. He went off the rails at one of the debates–remember when he went overboard about being tested for aids with his wife and not Joe Biden?
Now this. Hoping people don’t wonder why he’s carrying a purse. He and a supporter laugh about coming out.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid…..opping.cnn
dachoste @ 60
Obama showed what was behind the leaves when he excerpted his book in friggin’ Time magazine, home of Joke Line, wherein he said:
Obama doubts himself in so many words in response to the barking of well-known black wingnut Alan Keyes?
What?
What the Fuck?
I wrote Obama off right then and there. The guy doesn’t know who he really is. To accept that any of the drivel of the evangelical right, especially from the mouth of Alan Keyes, showed me I wanted no part of Senator ‘Hope’.
No part whatsoever.
I welcome the Obama supporters who can see him now for what he is to the real world where such as John Edwards and Senator Dodd are speaking out at long, long last; giving voice to what the majority of Americans are asking for:
Principled leadership in the direction which is good for all not pandering to the deranges shit throwing monkeys of the ReichWing.
Edwards/Dodd 2008!
I think there has been a tremendous, and frankly, shrill, over-reaction to this entire affair. McClurkin is a damaged guy who wants to help a pro-Gay Liberal get elected. He apologized some time ago for the offensive remarks. He will be on stage singing songs of redemption and renewal, not advocating discrimination or shame for Gays. This situation will resolve itself into a huge plus for Obama when it is all said and done. I am glad that Obama has stuck to his guns. If our progressive coalition can’t get past this litmus test mentality for our candidates, then we will never have meaningful victory. If it means so much to offended folks, they can go vote for Hillary and celebrate all the uninspired emptiness that money can buy.
Bruce Frigeri @ 146
Me?
I’ll vote for Edwards thanks.
He has a functioning campaign and brain.
I think you’ll find that Sen. Obama’s brain functions very well. As it did it 2002, for example, when the question was whether to authorize an invasion of Iraq.
Just back from an Obama rally in St. Louis. There was no mention of Donnie McClurkin at all in any context I could see. Nobody heckled, and there were no protestors outside the rally area I could see.
The crowd was large, and very into it. Obama is still good on the stump. Having said that, and now having seen him twice (Yearly Kos and tonight) I’m still not totally sold on him being my candidate.
Andy
Since Andy has given folks the on-the-ground perspective for Obama in MO, I thought I’d comment on the Edwards townhall I went to today in BFN rural Iowa. This wasn’t a rally but a town meeting, which meant it largely consisted of anyone who wanted to asking Edwards about more or less anything that crossed their minds.
A couple things stood out for me. First, Edwards was able to make an appeal that played on multiple levels. The university academics could come together with the blue collar workers worried about scabs and the rural retirees who worried about health care and Iraq and the farmers who were concerned about the blowback from feetrade.
Another thing that impressed me was how how respectful Edwards was about the idea of dissent in general, and his treatment of questioners who clearly would never vote for him — like the fair tax guy, or the retiree who saw crime behind every tree trunk. Edwards was able both to disagree forcefully (with regard to tax policy), and to find some sort of common ground with even the most addled of questioners. I saw in his responses both a skillful politician and someone who had a real respect for the give and take which is inevitable in a functioning democracy.
I am aware that Edwards’ strong showing in Iowa is keeping his candidacy alive on the national level at this point. Coming from someone who sees the candidates up close and personal, I hope that folks who don’t have this opportunity will take a serious second look at his candidacy. He’s matured a lot since 2004, and has the courage of his convictions. I’d hate to see people write him off simply because Kos thinks that he’s shot himself in the foot with public financing for the primaries.
eCAHNomics @ 98
Hate to disagree with you eCahn. You DON’T understand what is happening at all.
First these firestorms are generally a very recent phenomenon. with the exception of the 1970 Laguna Fire and one other all the major wildfires in California (10 of the top 12) have occurred after 2002.
Many of these homes were built long before that period…at a time when fires were smaller, controllable, and relatively benign.
Second. When these fires come thrugh they not only impact homes in CANYONS, but on plateaus, ridgelines, rolling hills, and flat terrains. And sometimes they encroach into cities. Once one of these big fires get moving they are indiscriminant. I don’t understand what the difference would be between a canyon and these other areas. Basically you are arguing that any Californian (actually any Westerner) that lives outside the city core shouldn’t receive fire protection.
Of course, that’s the vast majority of the population of California nowadays.
Because that is actually where these fires impact (not just a few people living in Canyons). And if the Santa Ana winds had kept up…the risk to cities themselves would have been dire. 80-120 mph winds blowing cinders from other burnt structure are carried far from the rural and suburban fringes and aren’t merely confined to “canyons”.
Your statement is about as absurd as saying that taxpayers should ignore the people of New Orleans ‘coz they built on a hurricane prone area. Or that West Coasters and the people of he Mississippi Valley shouldn’t expect Federal aid because they should realize they are living in a serious earthquake zone. Or the peoples of the South and Midwest not deserving any help from tornados. Or those people in the heartland along the Missouri, Ohio, and Mississippi Rivers deserving no help because they live in a floodplain (one that is naturally 40 miles wide in places if left unchecked). Blizzards…heatwaves…droughts…well, the risks of living in the South, West, or North was well known. Should take care of your own foolish choices, right?
And since we have long been warned of the consequences of Global Warming- well some took bad advice, but that was their coice,- then the increase in coastal sea-levels, storm intensity, and disease spread should have been recognized and these folks should have sold their homes and gotten out. It’s their fault!
Back to laissez-faire, except of course for the rich!
OldCoastie @ 128
Of course, Carter has been involved in “talking with” some pretty reprehensible people over the years in his Peace negotiations. His view is that you might disagree to the core with them, but you try to bring them to a place where progress towards human rights and peace increases. Usually he backs off name-calling during that time. Almost always, even when upbraiding an individual he points out actions and behaviors, rather than making aspersions on their “essence” as a human being.
Notice how very different things are under Bush…personal attacks are often first, with distortions about what has actually occurred second.
“I once said that Hillary and Obama don’t need the netroots; they just need us not to hate them.”
Hammer-nail-bang. They wish!
Shitfire, I wish I was on John Edwards’ campaign staff.
Move, John! MOVE!
twc @ 119
I suspect he let someone else select the performers for his tour. What happened after it became clear there was a problem? Did he rectify it?
My feeling isn’t that he’s anti-gay, but that this is one of several things he’s said or done which is just off by half a beat and indicate he’s ‘not ready for Prime Time’. He’s a little green.
I also sense that he’s more of a follower than a leader and that’s why his speeches sound so much like Edwards. That he doesn’t strike me as a leader leaves me feeling he’s an extremely expensive beautiful empty suit who gives a great speech.
He’ll be a very good senator for Illinois.
He’s lost my attention after this. Avarosis is right in nailing this hypocrisy to the wall. You cant have it both ways and call it inclusive. Are you joking? He’s not appeasing the constituency, just the black homophobic religious ccommunity. Weighing the political fallout rather than cementing the legitimacy and aspirations of gay people. Here was a chance for OBAMA to lay the hammer down on the black community over gay issues and perhaps take a big whack at burying their homophobic rantings. But, he chickened out.
Its ok to be gay but you can be saved,changed and redeemed threw successful scream therapy aimed at your mother while wielding a shotgun.
Mark: well, if you look at his biography and career he’s been more a leader than a follower — community organizer in Harlem and on the south side of Chicago, executive director of Project Vote, president of the Harvard Law Review, civil rights attorney and constitutional law lecturer, author of two well-regarded bestselling books. Here’s a fair article on his leadership while in the Illinois State Senate: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..2262.html.
In October of 2002, while the U.S. Senate was preparing to authorize President Bush to use military force in Iraq, he gave a speech expressing his opposition to the war that included this: “I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.”
That kind of statement on a crucial national policy decision hardly suggests to me a careful follower. That is the sort of speech a leader gives.
Somerset: well, if you expect a presidential candidate to “lay the hammer down on the black community over gay issues” while trying to get the nomination, I suspect no winning candidate will ever meet your test. If you’re expecting a bruising smackdown of an entire segment of the democratic electorate, I think what you’re asking is unrealistic.
By the way, just so you know where I’m coming from, I’m not with the Obama campaign. I’m just one voter, and reader who happens to think highly of Obama. Edwards is my second choice. I am not eager to see Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee.
BTW, here’s the full text of Obama’s speech opposing the war in October of 2002. It’s not very long, and it’s definitely worth a read:
Remarks of Illinois State Sen. Barack Obama Against Going to War with Iraq
| October 02, 2002
October 2, 2002
“Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.
My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don’t oppose all wars.
After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.
What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.
What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.
But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.
So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?
Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe. You want a fight, President Bush?
Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil. Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.
The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not — we will not — travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.”
“You’re unrealistic” is the polite form of “SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!”