This is a very good thing:
“To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”
Thanks to everyone who called. And by the way, I’m really looking forward to this. Barack Obama is a brilliant and powerful speaker. His participation in a filibuster against the telecoms should be a real show-stopper. And I do not see retroactive immunity making its way out of the bill in any kind of a permanent way any time soon — Bush and McConnell have both pitched complete hissy fits demanding that it is of paramount importance in the war on terra — so I think the chances we are headed for a showdown are quite good.
Senator Clinton, you were saying?
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Zed?
Also: Jane!
Good start. Now ditch that ridiculous ex-gay guy and he might havea shot at my vote.
Jane!
Obama! Jane!
Well that’s good… seems like maybe, just maybe, some will is marshalling up here.
Maybe.
Why was he absent from the Southwick vote?
It’s a good thing to say, but will he really follows through on it? Until I see him actually do so, I believe that he really won’t. He’s a modern Dem, after all.
As usual, no zed…
Be nice if he were doing it because it’s the right thing to do but that is too much to hope for.
Hello, Jane:
Thanks for saving us from certain threads…*g*
You seem awfully upbeat Jane. I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but “showdowns” with Republicans usually end up with Democrats rolling over AND getting maligned in the process. =/
That whole “war on homosexuality” guy that’s been stumping for Obama has really soured me on him. Being an atheist I never really liked the way Obama spoke so often of his religious faith, but was willing to let that go, but this is bothersome. He’s got much to do before I start rooting for him again.
If he’s so brilliant, why is he traveling around with a known gay-hating “gospel” singer? He’s not getting my money, my support, nor my vote.
Check out AmericaBlog for the full story on Obama’s throwing the Gay Community under the bus.
All I can say is, well duh!!
Gotta get something done besides playing on the blogs all day. Later.
OT, but thought the latest Fox terra alert would be enjoyed by all.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/….._1024.html
Again:
Clinton will say nothing until she sees which way the wind is blowing.
That’s nice, but why do we have to push them to do the right thing on something that should be a no-brainer??
EPU’d from downstairs this is still relevant here:
A sports analogy:
Our team takes the field after playing defense for far too long. Head coach Reid turns to offensive coordinator Pelosi and says, “Well, what play do you think we ought to run now?”
“I don’t know,” says Pelosi. “we might try a pass, but they could intercept it and run it back for a touchdown. Too risky.”
“True,” says Reid, “but if we try to run the ball, they’ve got an awfully big defensive line and we could get pushed back behind the line and maybe even fumble.”
“Good point.” answers Pelosi. “I have an idea. Since the quarterback option is off the table, lets take three kneeldowns and punt.”
“I like it,” Reid grins. “That’s the fighting spirit. We can give ‘em hell with that punt!”
“And we can always say we didn’t have the votes, er, blockers. That should keep the crowd quiet”
Way to go, guys!!!
Toby Wollin @ 8
You need to work harder. Talk to raven!
Oh, and Jane, I watched “Apt Pupil” again last night. Nice work. I don’t really know all that a producer does and even if you got the chance to even talk with Ian McKellan (sp?), but if you did, it must have been a thrill.
Really glad that Obama has joined Dodd but
Does the support mean…
That Obama will participate in actually reading the phone book or War & Peace to filibuster?
Or is it I will stand by and watch Dodd?
peanutbutter @ 6:
He wasn’t absent.
Diane @ 15
My favorite part of this story:
Morris Sheppard @ 17
I agree. I say good for Obama but it should not be this hard. We should not have to have so many doubts that a Democrat will do the right thing.
Biodun @ 18
Biodun – this is my fate and my job – to be the one who does not get a zed. It’s a dirty job, but someone has to do it. Sort of doing my bit for the “spirit of compromise” (snark).
Webster @ 13
I agree with Aravosis on this completely. Obama has been a big disappointment on most issues and I said as much in the WaPo this morning.
However, we can use everyone’s help in this particular fight. The word is that they already have the 60 votes to pass telecom immunity, we need all the support we can get.
heard something GREAT by one of the callers on the tom harman show just now, had to pull over and post
right now fox news is trying to blame al qaeda for the fires in cali…they are bringing up a 2003 memo raising the possibility
they failed to mention that memo was derived through torture, and that memo mentioned a bunch of states, non of which included cali
anyway, the caller raised a great point;
since we are “fighting them there to keep them from comming here”, they are here now, time to bring the troops back so we can have them here to fight!
nicely done by the caller
Biodun @ 21
My bad. I’m getting senators mixed up.
Still, he’s often absent from votes :-P
OT – but, look:
Condi has a date with Henry tomorrow
Well, well, well. I still don’t think he’s quite ready for Prime Time, but at least he can recognize an incipient riot while it’s still a group of annoyed citizens.
HRC is conducting a focus group on the ramifications of Obama agreeing with Dodd.
Jane Hamsher @ 25
I don’t know the procedure but if there are 60 votes for passage..then how can there be a filibuster? It would be over with the first cloture vote. One reasons the anti-civil rights filibusters were usually successful was that at that time 67 votes were needed for cloture. Is there a procedural mechanism to maintain a filibuster without the votes?
So Harry Reid, what’s it gonna be?
You walking the plank for Junya’s crimes or might ye be re-thinking just whose side you want to be on today?
What a lost opportunity for Barak Obama’s campaign to be pushed into this position, when he had a chance to be the leader on this issue and take this same stand a week ago.
Jane Hamsher @ 25
and he IS a good speaker.
Hey, in honor of Halloween, maybe we could try to cobble together a Frankendemocrat to run for prez using pieces of the existing candidates.
OC — you still there? Some updates from this blogger: http://dissenttheblog.blogspot.com/
kudos to Dodd for showing leadership and getting the ball rolling
for the first time I think we might just defeat this monstrosity
FrankenDemocrat? No, wait we have one but he’s in Minnesota. (rimshot).
But I do love the idea…
Does Barack’s support for a filibuster translate to actual participation in such filibuster?
I don’t mean to be overly skeptical, but given Barack’s tendency for hedging, I think a careful parsing of Barack’s statement is definitely warranted.
I hope to see Barack support and participate in any filibuster of telecom immunity.
oddmommy @ 33
night be good to go side by side with a frankenpres of former greats, include republican presidents like lincoln
Fox & “Friends” can get away with this crap, I’m waiting to see if old grit Brit will echo the terra wildfire meme.
Barack Obama…but:
Ehud Barak…
Toby Wollin @ 8
Clearly, you are suffering from
unconscious zedophobia.
There is hope, however,
usually without resort to
anything more drastic than
pro—–long———ed
patience.
A sense of thread # location
and zee spinnik wheel will
often bring permanent relief.
That zed, however, be fore-warned
that a heady sense of fore-bosity
may accompany your new-found
zedability.
Good luck and good zedding.
P.S. Aways zed a good example.
a zed named Rosebud…
Senator Dodd led the way. Senator Dodd voted against the Kyl Liebermann amendment. Senator Dodd is sure demonstrating some spine.
punaise @ 42
Yes, but does it exist? But oh, wait: Year zero does not exist…
peanutbutter @ 34
thanks – very good!
Biodun @ 16
Sounds like she doesn’t listen to any Bob Dylan.
Loo Hoo. @ 5
Loo Hoo, everything OK out there with you?
Well, tried to answer my question @ 30..Read Senate rule XXII…after reading it, I am still clueless.
I’ll actually be pleasantly surprised if Obama speaks on the floor during a filibuster. Maybe he can tell us a little about some of the politics of the editorial staff of the Harvard Law Review.
David W. Bartoo @ 41
I’m honored, David…
but still zedless….
fixed wing are flying over my house! sounds like several…
edit: crap! 2 helicopters but they look a little larger than the ones that have been fire fighting… hopefully, they are carrying fosmax
Meanwhile, Chimpy struts his stuff:
I think he’s talking about the wrong country. He means the United States and its current regime. And by dissidents he means netroots.
OT..But a potential House pickup for Dems.
rollcall
OldCoastie @ 51
Yay! Godspeed, firefighter pilots!
FunnyDiva
Toby Wollin @ 50
I predict that this sad state of affairs will not long obtain. Go forth and zed!
Remember, as the sun also rises, there will, zed willing, always be another thread. If not, then there will be no worries of any consequence.
Toby Wollin:
Wait a sec: IIRC, didn’t you get a zed once in the last coupla weeks? Or did I dream that up?
Funnydiva2002 @ 54
no – not fixed wing, big helos… sounds like they may drop down and pick up water from my fake lake. (ooo! better get my camera!)
Morris Sheppard @ 17
i guess because it’s our job to see that they do their job.
i confess i did not get this for most of my life… trying to make up for lost time now.
Hillary’s various inactions speak for themselves.
“I will not approve giving a get out of jail free card to some big businesses who did a bunch of obviously illegal work for this slimeball administration even though they had a ton of lawyers to research the illegality of what they were being asked to do before anyone even brings these lawbreaking big businesses into a courtroom.” Well, that’s a big hurrah, isn’t it? Why wouldn’t every single person except the most extreme, far, far conservative right Republican say this exact same thing? Okay, aside from the filling of the election coffers.
Balrog, yes. A friend told me my neighborhood if okay. Can’t wait to see it! Hope there’s no looting. National guard is all in Rancho Sante Fe, far as I can tell. (RSF is the most upscale area of SD)
Thank you David (Scarlet O’Hara) Bartoo!!!
“there will, zed willing, always be another thread…”
Look: I still say Chimpy is talking about the wrong country. He means BushCo:
(Same link as my 52.)
OldCoastie @ 57
I’ve seen that “dip n dump” done in the Cascades. Anyway, it’s much better than nothing, and I’m still rooting for the firefighter pilots, whichever mechanism they use for lift.
FunnyD
State Department’s Griffin resigns:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004547.php
OldCoastie @ 51
Hopefully not Blackwater mercenaries coming to “restore order”.
I’m afeerd they may be news choppers… glad they are there but I want some FOSMAX!
Biodun @ 56
On occasion, I have been known to sneak in as one of the first four or five…but I do not recall a zed. If so, I would gladly give it up to another more worthy zedless person. I would not want anyone to think I was claiming an undeserved zed.(heh)
And yes Condi, you are a war criminal. I want to turn you, (George W. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and others) over to the Iraqi people for trail after your term expires.
puppethead @ 66
Now it’s called “setting a spirit for compromise.”
http://www.calitics.com/frontPage.do
Calitics is good link for fire info-
Toby Wollin @ 62
Toby;
I once lived on Van Ostrand Road, still miss the glens. One of my favorite places. So, I regard you as well endowed with good fortune indeed.
Clinton’s leadership qualities. Where?
Great news Obama finally stepped to the plate but the real thrill for this ole worried central coaster is finding LooHoo and Old Coastie on this thread!
Snoopy Dancing….
Loo Hoo. @ 61
Hallelujah. Glad to hear it.
And yet another Condi failure:
Faded a bit: I like that.
Blackwater is far too chickenshit to ever fight a fire.
And as for you Nancy, you do not speak for this Democrat. Nancy and Harry, what a leadership team.
Loo Hoo. @ 61
Balrog, yes. A friend told me my neighborhood if okay. Can’t wait to see it! Hope there’s no looting. National guard is all in Rancho Sante Fe, far as I can tell. (RSF is the most upscale area of SD)
So glad. Hope all remains well…
oddmommy @ 33
LOL! Though not as kludgy as a FrankenGOP monster…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 69
OKK – I’m still trying to figure out HOW exactly this gets done. Do we even have a procedure to do this? We aren’t even signatories to the Hague, I don’t think. But certainly, I’d love to gather up all of these folks and hand them over.
OldCoastie @ 77
Well, duh. Can’t shoot it up with automatic weapons or run it off the road in big, black Suburbans!
FunnyD
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/27983
Dodd asking for calls to be made to the committee…
OldCoastie @ 77
Actually they would have to really work…. get dirty….. go without sleep….
Thank God there are real firefighters… who do what they do
David W. Bartoo @ 72
Which glens are those David?
Valley Girl @ 71
Yes and no. It’s general, and heavily tilted toward San Diego (after all they do have the most fires). I’m having a devil of a time finding good updates on the OC fire. There’s an excellent map & twitter update for SD available, wish I could find those on Santiago.
Wandered around lost in Kos for a while — most of that was San Diego as well. ocregister.com seems to have the most updates for Santiago, but they’re generally a few hours behind, which is hard in this fast moving stuff…
neokneme @ 80
they already have an off the shelf model…Freddiestein.
Toby Wollin @ 81
There’s no way this is going to happen. Sometimes I just get carried away and dream of justice.
By all means, let’s complete the construction of that embassy, the biggest in the world:
new thread upstairs
FunnyDiva
I thought conservative GOP’s believe that Market Forces should be the determining factors in business, not the government. Now, the GOP is claiming they need to intervene and protect companies from lawsuits? So companies who broke the law get rewarded and a company who stood up on principles like Qwest get’s punished because the government is trying to intervene in the marketplace. Oh, the hypocrisy of the GOP.
OldCoastie @ 77
No doubt. I meant “restore order” as in suppress the displaced residents. The company exists solely to intimidate and kill unarmed people.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 88
Justice IS something to get carried away over. We shouldn’t have to just dream about it.
Link to help Dodd on Immunity bill
http://chrisdodd.com/immunity
For everyone worried about the potential of an attack on Iran…
I came across this Danish article (I speak Norwegian, so I can read it), but the writer refers to 2 articles in English that are a bit enlightening taken together…
The Danish writer is speculating on the comments by Bush about WWIII and the comments by Cheney about “serious consequences”, and the writer is trying to read between the lines…he then goes on to cite the 2 articles that are linked. The most interesting part is the description of where the Navy ships are currently..(the second link)
His final sentence at the end, states that there is a vast difference between what the American leaders are saying, and what the reality of reality is.
Sort of made me feel better…
http://usablog.blogs.berlingsk…..gma-vente/
oddmommy @ 87
I think Freddiestein’s batteries are already running low…
Might I propose a D candidathe named Kucini-Dod-Edwards for prez?
*And*, I’m an oddmommy fan – doesn’t give in to group-think, speaks her mind ( not that I always agree) but how ya gonna have a decent debate without differing opinions?
I’ve gotten into a few tussles here at the Lake – maybe I was right – maybe not – but I think (hope) that I haven’t lost any friends…
Badwater @ 7
Agreed. Frankly, the same applies to Dodd, and Hillary should she consult her windsock anytime soon. Dodd sounds more sincere than Obama or Hillary, but after all those promises made by Dems during the 2006 campaign which have gone unfinished, the proof will be in the pudding for me.
To quote Glenn Greenwald on this topic, today:“a drop of water to someone stranded in the desert will seem like a royal feast.”
Along those lines, I finally got “a drop of water” (if you can even call it as much as that) from DiFi’s DC office today.
I just called in (for about, I’d say, the 8th time in the past two weeks) and asked the phone-answerer why my Senator had voted “yes,” in the Intelligence Committeee, for the FISA bill, which includes retroactive immunity to telecoms which violated federal law by spying on Americans without a warrant.
I was told by the phone answerer that (and here’s the miniscule drop of water) the Senator has “deep reservations” (!) about the bill, and understands that her constituents also have reservations (!) about the bill, and that the constituent concerns appear to be in regards to the issue of retroactive immunity for the telecoms.
I asked why my Senator voted “yes” on a bill that she has “deep reservations” about, and was told that she voted solely to move it out of the Intelligence Committee, but that the Judiciary Committee (on which my Senator also sits) will be the primary battleground for this bill, and that the Senator hopes that her reservations will be addressed there, in Judiciary Committee deliberations.
I asked if the phone-answerer, or anyone in the office, could tell me what the specific nature of my Senator’s reservations are. I was told (for the zillionth time in the past two weeks, good-bye water drop) that my Senator has not yet issued a statement declaring her official position on this topic, but that she is very sensitive to the constituent contact she has been receiving, and understands that many of her constituents are concerned about the retroactive immunity provision, and that he, the phone-answerer, would certainly pass along any additional messages I may wish to communicate.
I pointed out, to the phone answerer, that Senators Dodd and Obama and Biden had all issued unequivocable declarations of the intent to fillibuster any FISA bill which includes retroactive immunity for the telecoms, and that President Bush had declared his insistence that any FISA bill include retroactive immunity, and that I certainly hope that my Democratic Senator from California stands with Senators Dodd, Obama and Biden on this issue, rather than standing with President Bush. The phone-answerer assured me that Senator Feinstein is well aware of the stances taken by her fellow Senators (Dodd, Obama, and Biden), and that he would certainly pass along my message.
End of call.
Patrick Meighan
Culver City, CA
jayt @ 96
thanks jayt.
I try to stay out of trouble, don’t always succeed.
Fuck Obama and Hillary. Dodd got this rolling and only HE deserves anyones vote for President. He’s a leader, not a political weather meter.
Toby Wollin @ 85
Fillmore was my personal favorite, especially in early spring. Treman was awesome and always took visitors there. Taughannock was favorite of my daughters, but we all enjoyed
a quick jog around buttermilk when we went to Greenstar.
Miss the feeling, much like Cambridge in the sixties, and especially the people. Mooosewood and Pizza Aroma and those potato
pancakes at Hal’s are equally missed. Our cats loved it there as well. Will definitely return someday. The only thing it lacks are the fabulous forests found in central PA.
LS @ 95
Thanks for that link. The only problem is that this administration is not based in “reality”
Kathleen @ 102
Right, but if the Navy isn’t in the Persian Gulf, they will have a pretty difficult time launching major airstrikes…that is the reality.
thanks jayt.
I try to stay out of trouble, don’t always succeed.
hell – “Trouble” is my middle name..
Used to be “Danger”, but I’m growing a bit older…
I fear that my middle name might soon morph into “Mildly Annoying”… but I do look forward to the day upon which I can claim “Eccentric” as my middle name…
Not for a while yet though.
Keep on keepin’ on girl – there are battles yet to be fought – and for the time being, I’m still a relatively bad mother-fuc…
As are you. All my best.
LS;
Thanks for link @ 95.
Toby Wollin @ 81
You do what THEY do (the equivalent, that is): hire “private contractors” to nab them, preferably within a short window, while they are going about their daily lives such as jogging, crashing off their bikes, walking, etc. You then simply fly them to Iraq, preferably into Sadr City, and simply hand them over to Sadr’s peeps or any random Sunni militia member, with your(out) blessing.
And by the way, this IS after they are all out of office.
[Mod Note; if we don’t like when it’s done to some, we don’t advocate it being done to others.]
I’m all happy that folks are starting to stand up and do their jobs. But, before we go all hog wild in support for these people, the only thing they are agreeing to do is filibuster retroactive immunity for telecom companies. Many people presume this means, naturally, that these same folks who threaten to filibuster for retroactive immunity for the telecoms will be similarly motivated if the bill that comes to the floor (why any FISA bill has to come to the floor simply is beyond me, but apparently few others) that:
1. Allows only the AG or some other executive branch official to define definitions and make determinations;
2. Gives government officials immunity for past acts;
3. Redefines FISA to avoid all prior precedents;
4. Allows the US government to spy on Americans on American soil without a warrant.
I’m willing to bet that none of them will go that far. This is a campaign stunt. It may be the right thing to do — and I really do believe it is. But it is a stunt. Carefully crafted and limited as all stunts are.
The solution, filibuster any FISA legislation proposed by this administration. it will do what it wants to do anyway (see all those signing statements) and wouldn’t you rather work it out with a fresh outlook anyway?
I think this is great news. I called the DC offices of both Clinton and Obama today and put as much pressure on them as I could.
Why do dems even have to do this follow-up on our leaders? Can you imagine republicans granting immunity for perjury in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal? I wish these guys had half the killer instict of the republicans.
Where is John Edwards in all this?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again OBAMA IS A TROJAN HORSE!!!!
Good ol’ Tom Toles. :o)
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoo…..rTqJCg58IF
Let’s be clear, Obama had to be frog marched to publish his statement – he waffled, equivocated and avoided commitment until his feet were held to the fire. About the level of leadershippyness (or however Colbert would spell it) we’ve come to expect from this lightweight.
Don’t give him kudos for doing the right thing, this should be a no brainer.
Give kudos to Dodd for stepping up – he’s shown more leadership than Obama and Clinton put together.
Toby Wollin @ 81
We can’t do that. It’s our mess. We, the American people and our (apparently) weak political process, created this mess and WE have to clean it up.