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Lots of firepups have asked lately on the threads "How Can I Help?"
American Red Cross National Disaster Relief Fund: You may designate on this website where your donation should be applied, or simply request that your donation go where the need is greatest.
American Red Cross: San Diego and Imperial Counties
Here's some other suggestions, courtesy of the Los Angeles Times:
How to help
Charitable groups responding to the Southern California wildfires are seeking donations to assist residents affected by the fires.American Red Cross: Cash donations can be made through www.redcross.org or through a local Red Cross chapter. Volunteers also are needed. Information on shelter locations can be found on Red Cross websites for Los Angeles, Ventura, Orange and San Diego counties and the Inland Empire. Donations of clothing can be made at Goodwill locations. Information: (800) REDCROSS or (800) 257-7575 for Spanish speakers.
Salvation Army: Cash contributions can be made through its website www.salvationarmy-socal.org or by calling (800) SALARMY.
Governor's Office of Emergency Services: Businesses wishing to donate large quantities of goods for distribution to fire victims can call (800) 750-2858 between 8 a.m. and 10 p.m. Pacific time. Individuals wanting to donate items or volunteer to help with local disaster response efforts should contact the Red Cross or go to the governor's CaliforniaVolunteers website at www.californiavolunteers.org.
United Health Group: Southern Californians coping with the emotional consequences of the fires can call a counseling hotline at (866) 342-6892. The free service provided by the insurance company will be available around the clock for as long as needed.
The Los Angeles Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals: Cash donations are needed to support efforts to provide emergency shelter for animals displaced by the fires. Contributions can be made through www.spcala.com or by calling (888) SPCALA1. Food supplies also are needed.
New Leash on Life: The animal rescue group needs help caring for evacuated pets at its Newhall facility. The group can be contacted at (661) 255-0097.
Unfortunately, but completely understandably, the San-Diego Union-Tribune information seems entirely outdated and provides information only about how to aid victims of the 2003 fires. If anyone has specific up-to-date information about other ways to help our fellow Americans in Southern California, please post it in the comments.
Best wishes for cooler, wetter weather to our neighbors in the Southland. Stay safe.
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hi
TSF!!!
Fitz!
Hiya Teddy
Four…the people who need help.
first? my goodness. Hiya, teddy, i’ll let downstairs know & be back to read
Hi all, it’s the pseudo-pod posting for the theropod, still under the weather with back issues tonite. Hope you’re feeling better soon, TRex!
Evening all. How’s it going Teddy. See you got drafted to sub for our wounded therapod.
ndfg
See what happens when you stop to write something nice?
Hi Hon.
g’evening all, teddy, always a pleasure to read your posts. thanks for some of the answers.
Anybody have updates on our SoCal Fire Pups?
I heard Kyra Phillips (CNN) breathlessly report on the yoga and massages and ample buffets in Qualcomm Stadium. She wanted to make sure we all knew this was no Katrina. Yeah, but she didn’t mention how the city wasn’t destroyed and paralyzed by flooding, and goods and services could just drive to the stadium. And, of course, the racial subtext was there.
anyone have status updates on our so cal pups affected by the fires?
puppethead @ 12
Yeah, TBogg has a post up telling people to quit making that comparison for exactly that reason. Where he is in central San Diego near the ocean, there is scarcely even any smoke.
not to detract from the seriousness of the post, but tying together theropod, pseudo-pod, cephalopod, and the tawdriness of the last post, here’s cephalopod sex. (pharyngula is one of my fave science blogs)
Suzanne @ 13
as I say goodnight I’ll report Loo Hoo’s neighborhood is safe.
and all known So Cal pups and puplings are accounted for.
demi @ 9
(smirks) i was first this time. wrote something nice later. Age & treachery & all that ;-)
puppethead @ 12
Agree. 1200 died in Katrina. 80,000 homes lost in Katrina. New Orleans has lost its black population. I do not mean to diminish what has happened in socal at all. And it is not over yet. Unfortunately, I don’t think Little Boots is going to do a better job this time either.
thanks, elliott
has anyone heard from burns? he was impacted by the irvine fire last i heard (sun nite)
Elliott @ 16
Great News! Nite, Elliot!
Suzanne @ 19
I stand corrected, I don’t think burns has been heard from.
Suzanne @ 13
I just got an email from my high school friend saying she is safe. I have been so worried for her. She commented that Qualcomm was really going out of their way to do a good job which is once again, reflecting bad on our preznut because it underlines how crappy the victims of Katrina were treated. Bush just can’t win anymore and that’s a good thing.
g’night!
marymccurnin @ 18
We learned to go it without him. The hard way.
Hi Teddy: Thanks for this post. I can’t recall where I read it, but I noticed an article at some point today about blood drives having to be cancelled due to the fires, with a corresponding drop in supplies. Something we can do is go donate blood. Perhaps the Californians who do so may make a difference in So Ca–and certainly it’s needed and helpful wherever all you all are….
ndfg:
You Are Number One!
See how sleep-deprived I am tonight?
But, the wind has stopped — Oh thank you Goddess of Screeching and Howling Wind.
So, hopefully I’ll be rested soon.
:)
Hello Teddy!
I’m thinking on the same page with you tonight.
Hey all… smokey, tired, fire-weary firepup here… we are OK… the fire burned within a few blocks but the air tankers finally returned at just the last second and dropped a whole lotta foscheck.
burns was by this morning, I think.
There are a few websites with good info, and especially the twitter site stating what’s needed where.
Try:
Radio station in San Diego is doing a fabulous updating job thru twitter — best idea I’ve seen for it ever. They’ve also got a google map updating the fires, but this will give you info for where to donate: http://twitter.com/kpbsnews
The OC Register seems to have the best coverage in OC although it’s not updated as frequently as I would like, it’s several times a day and they have mentioned places to help: http://www.ocregister.com
For LA, I was reduced to the LA Times, but they seem to be keeping things reasonably updated: http://www.latimes.com/news/lo.....ome-center
I love the twitter concept, though. I’m going to try to bug people in OC to start something like that up.
OC!! How wonderful!!
*(((((((((((demi))))))))))*demi @ 26
*(((((((((((demi))))))))))*
Here is a triology for our SoCal Pups.
DrDick @ 14
Yeah, I’ve been slapping people down for the Katrina comparison. It’s ridiculous. Just compare the homes destroyed in each for starters. Compare the amount of time and warning people have to leave their homes. Consider how many will simply return to their homes, with most of the infrastructure and jobs and so forth intact.
It is quite an amazing firestorm down here, but it is NOT Katrina.
(And just to forestall anyone else: I’m two miles from the perimeter of the Santiago fire.)
Evening everyone! This day has been a bear and it’s good to hear that the SoCal pups are faring well so far. Here’s hoping for some rain and for the wind to die down considerably so the firefighters can get a handle on things.
OldCoastie @ 27
Doubly good news. I hear the winds have died down, so maybe things will lighten up a bit.
Mary M:
Wanna do a quick Snoopy Dance with me?
Ready, set, Dance!
marymccurnin @ 18
Who knows? At least the boy-king doesn’t have any birthday parties to attend this time, two days after the all hell broke loose. No natural disaster is gonna get in the way of Little Boots and some buttercream frosting!
Does anyone know if the International Committee of the Red Cross has been politicized? I’m really just wondering.
how is the breathing situation out there? I keep hearing about the smoke.
As an asthmatic I can’t even begin to imagine how anyone with any sort of lung condition can breathe at all.
demi @ 26
i hope you sleep well tonight … sleep dep. is no fun, i know from experience. At least i’m not suffering from natural distasters surrounding me.
sigh. minnesota’s old-news infrastructure disaster is a squabbling mess … why the f doesn’t our equivalent of “brownie” DOT head Carol M get fired?
madmommy @ 33
Evening, MM, I’m beginning to feel sorry for the Rox! ;-)
OldCoastie @ 27
Yes!
Many local OC updates appearing here: http://dissenttheblog.blogspot.com/
It looks like where the firefighters were able to get in, they were able to save quite a few things. Some homes had to be abandoned, though :-(
oddmommy @ 38
That may be an even bigger problem for far more people. We had that problem here in Missoula this summer, even though the nearest fire was 20 miles away.
DrDick @ 34
the winds have been down pretty good for the last 36 hours, the problem has been there is just SO much really dry fuel… I’m amazed frankly, they’ve got as good a handle on the blaze as they have (and it isn’t out yet)
CTuttle @ 40
Liar, liar pants on fire!
The rust from 8 days off is showing, unfortunately. There is no mercy rule in the World Series.
oddmommy @ 38
It is bad downwind of Santiago. I hear from friends in San Diego (city area, intersection of 8 and 15 freeways) that it’s just choking.
Ironically, the air’s better at my house than down in Irvine, because I’m just ever so slightly upwind of the perimeter. Bet I’ll get all this blown back in my face when the offshore breezes come back :-P Also the LA County fires are kind of forming a pincers from the other direction. My parents (north of Long Beach, south of LAX) report chokingly bad air as well.
Airdrop a ton of gas masks! ;-) ;-)
the firefighters on the Santiago Fire did an amazing job… saved an awful lot of homes… especially impressive because they didn’t allocate us the planes until way too late… (we wouldn’t have lost much of anything if they’d got here sooner)
You doing OK PB? Breathing alright?
OldCoastie @ 43
That’s true. Highlights that we in the arid west need to get much more proactive in managing fire and not wait for it to blow up like it did here this summer and there now. With current trend (and according to all the scientists) we can expect these events to become normal or get worse in the future.
demi @ 35
Oh Gosh. I stepped out for a moment so I will do one now in my little mind.
the smoke was so heavy on this side of the fire, it looked like sunset at about 330 this afternoon.
OldCoastie @ 46
THAT is what (pardon the pun) burns me!! If we had the equipment we needed, this would have been under control sometime monday night or tuesday morning I think. GRRRR!
i saw his evilness boosh on the tv, sitting in his cushy executive chair, spewing that bullshit about ‘the wind’ is why the planes were not there.
bullshit
oddmommy @ 38
ditto, my asthma’s been not-great over the last few days (inevitable aftermath of a cold) and my constant thought is of folks in SoCal … and the poor firefighters in high heat wearing breath masks so they don’t end up with breathing problems.
Hi All. Here in Irvine the smoke is MUCH WORSE than yesterday.
OldCoastie @ 46
Hey Old Coastie, aren’t you in Irvine too?
Wind kept fixed wing planes from flying briefly Suzanne
I work near Long Beach and as I was driving home about 5:30 it looked like I was driving into a thunderstorm.
Garamendi called Bush on his sh*t today.
they could’ve stopped the fire in Santiago Canyon, before it got into the more minor canyons, on Tuesday morning… damn governor and that guy who was in charge of allocating the planes keep running around saying, “oh! the winds were too dangerous!”
No. They. Weren’t.
Tuesday morning the winds weren’t any higher than about 10 knots.
OldCoastie @ 46
Firefighters, especially the hotshots and wildland fire crews, are absolutely awesome. They work their butts off in horrendous conditions for long hours and live in really rough conditions. Old Conrad Burns almost got run out of the state when he dissed an out of state fire crew in 2008. Contributed to his losing the election.
DrDick @ 48
One thing that’s interesting: while I’m all for management and such — a depressing number of our listed fires over the years have been from backfires intended for such management…!
peanutbutter @ 51
Were you able to get good information online or was it better on television wrt where the fires were? Thank goodness everyone here is okay.
planes can’t fight the fire if they are still outta state. i heard before going to bed this morning that the canadian c-130’s were on their way… this morning
what fireday is this? 4 days and the planes were just this morning being sent?
OldCoastie @ 50
Yes, it was quite dark most of the afternoon, and a blood red sun. Took some pics need to see how they came out. Big nasty plume coming up from the general silverado/trabuco area, visible all along Jamboree road.
Suzanne @ 52
Winds of war, that is.
peanutbutter @ 51
That is a problem throughout the West. So much of the equipment we need to fight fires is in Iraq. 8( Goddamn stupid war and goddamn stupid bastards that started it.
marymccurnin @ 58
Again? He did so on Hardball/Tweety on Tuesday. Did he do so somewhere else?
I’m down in Rancho Santa Margarita on the plano, overlooking Trabuco Canyon and O’Neill park.
ccmask @ 62
Orange County Register (which I usually avoid like the plague) has a great fire central page online. Better than the tv.
Laura Doty @ 25
Thanks for this excellent suggestion, Laura, I missed that report and appreciate your bringing it forward tonite.
DrDick: You left out goddamn global warming.
peanutbutter, where are you? You safe?
For those among us who were not happy that Pete Stark was coerced into that apology…reason to take heart. The comics are on the case….this food for thought brought to you courtesy the apple of Mama Bar’s eye and beautiful mind.
This in tandem with that oh-so-amusing Oval Office search for WMD surely sum up the Bush Iraq misadventure pretty well.
peanutbutter @ 28
Thanks also for these great resources!
Zee @ 69
That’s great to hear Zee. The tubes are a blessing for these kinds of emergencies.
getting info was rather a 3 step process… watch the news, and most particularly the helicopter shots, checked the OC Register (really - they had the most up-to-the-minute coverage) and watch the ‘puter… oh, and running down the street to go look at the canyon didn’t hurt either.
And you can also help by campaigning for Mitt Romney from a Winnebago…
peanutbutter @ 67
On Tweety maybe. I saw it yesterday and today. No memory of where though.
Roddy McCorley @ 77
lol roddy!
peanutbutter @ 61
That sounds like really bad management. I do not think that we have had a single controlled burn get out of control in the 9 years I have been here. You are right, you have to do it smart and careful, but we really need those small burns to prevent fuels build up which feeds these monsters. For better or worse, we live in a fire ecology, where fire is a major force shaping the environment and where all the species are adapted to frequent burning.
Suzanne @ 52
liar
he just lies now, he can not even help it
they might present him with the truth, but he just lies
ccmask @ 62
I have no idea of the quality of the TV coverage because I don’t watch TV. But it did seem like radio was more up to date, from comments others were making. I used online sources for my information.
The thing that I really noticed was the amount of misinformation out of state. Many places thought just Malibu was burning, and the NYT only put out a front page cover this morning.
DrDick @ 66
OK. There are several problems here. Yes, some of the equipment that the National Guard would have had that we would have used is gone to Iraq. But also, California works on a mutual aid basis. LA County has a fire, OC sends people and equipment up, and so on. Some of our equipment was up in LA County with their fires. The big problem with all this has not been each individual blaze but all of them occurring at once.
I’m on my Missions Team at Church and we were going over our funds for the rest of the year. We completed our pledge to the place in Kentucky where they help an awful lot of folks in many different ways. We also contributed to several local food kitchens and Womens’ Shelters.
I went over the numbers and suggested we keep $500 in the account for emergencies. I said who knows when the next earthquake or fire is going to happen.
Tomorrow, I’ll check out where to send it.
Boy, am I glad I asked to hold some $’s back.
Suzanne @ 63
Yeah, on the news here they were talking about how a lot of our fire crews have been waiting to be called, never have been.
what gets me on the plane issue, if the winds were so damn dangerous, how come they were able to fly up in Malibu and Canyon Country? It wasn’t less windy up there, after all…
I read that Bill Richardson donated $10,000 to California fire victims.
DrDick @ 80
Telling the truth would confuse His Royal Hinnyhole.
DrDick @ 84
That’s astounding, the crews could have been there in a matter of hours. Who dropped the ball on this?
CNN reports that boosh will not go into Qaalcom stadium to meet displaced people despite a request by Ahnold.
peanutbutter @ 67
Olbermann had him on tonite. He was toned down, but just a bit. Talked more about how well people were working together, how well Californians had handled this, how great the firefighters were, and — oh, yeah — New Orleans was still waiting for Bush’s promises to be kept, so don’t come around here with promises if you’re not going to keep them.
marymccurnin @ 87
potty mouth ;0)
Homeowners insurance here in California is going to skyrocket because of predicted losses up to 3 billion. California Insurance commissioner declared an insurance emergency. Has anyone ever heard of anything like that before?
Zee @ 72
Two miles from the perimeter, on the good side of the wind. IE, out of danger, and now that the wind has died down, I don’t anticipate any problems at all. Monday morning they thought the fire would grow west/south west and that was the worst time, but as it turned out, the fire went east and south (toward OC) instead :-(. Good for me, bad for everyone in those canyons.
SF Bay Area Fire Teams Strike teams from Northern Calif. are frustrated by delays in getting firefighting assignment
Garamendi on Hardball tonight and yesterday [Tues]. Sharp guy. Knows his info. Apparently has been insurance comm for Calif and is talking tough about holding insurance co’s feet to the fire to honor their policies.
I like the cut of his gib…and tongue. Trumanesque. We need more straight talk cutting through the Crossfire hangover punditry that usually wastes the public’s airwaves.
GWB — the truth is not in him. He lies when the truth would serve him better. Pathological. Pathetic.
tbsa @ 92
Yep, try getting a policy in Louisiana.
ccmask @ 79
Funniest thing I have heard all day!
TeddySanFran @ 90
Hm! If Garamendi runs for Governor I just may vote for him!
OldCoastie @ 59
I keep hearing this but I’m missing some info. What was the holdup?
neurophius @ 89
Why? Is he afraid Babs will want to join him?
peanutbutter @ 93
I’m probably about 4 miles now that its moved east - near the 405. Smoke really bad in your neighborhood?
peanutbutter @ 98
I heard him speak at the capital several months ago. He comes across even stronger in person.
tbsa @ 92
Can’t they just deny claims, like they did in NOLA?
damned if I know.
Garamendi yesterday and today:
from Crooks and Liars (vid).
The North County Times website is good, too. They’re covering the Pendleton-Fallbrook-Palomar areas. (nctimes, I think)
I know people who had to leave Fallbrook; their places are okay as of this afternoon, but they can’t go back in yet.
dKos has a ‘mothership’ for fire coverage, with links.
neurophius @ 103
They pretended everyone in New Orleans died.
tbsa @ 92
Maybe they will get lucky and find a terrorist to blame it on so they won’t have to pay. The insurance companies now have a good reason not to insure them again no matter how much they are willing to pay. That’s why no insurance company should insure more than a certain amount of homes in any given area.
Y’all can grumble all you want.
I’m taking my snoopy dance to the bath tub with Alice.
madmommy @ 88
Give a couple of guesses and they are both Republicans. This kind of thing is coordinated by the feds and the governors. Much of the problem here is that neither the governor nor the appropriate federal agencies mobilized sufficient resources in a timely manner. And by the way, we have a local outfit with a whole fleet of federally certified fire fighting planes that would have loved the work if someone had called them. Our own fires are under control and not threatening any people or property, so we do not need the resources.
tbsa @ 92
More likely companies will try to pull out of the markets totally.
Ya think Wall Street and Big Bidness is starting to wake up to the fact that
laissez-fairelazy neocon governance style is not good for the bottom line?madmommy @ 96
I don’t know if this is going to be the same. $3bn can’t be in terms of the residential housing: it’s what, 5K houses lost so far? That’s not gonna be $3bn. That figure must include infrastructure, loss of growing land, damaged equipement, then also the money spent on the crew, fuel, feeding them, transportation, flying planes, the phos-check, all in order to fight the fires, that kind of thing.
neurophius @ 103
There was something in the comments yesterday or the day before that they may try to do just that if the fire can be proved to be arson.
Insurance…they sure want those premiums on time, but try getting them to pay a claim.
Zee @ 101
No, I’m just upwind now. It’s much worse in Irvine, for example. I might stay home tomorrow…!
ccmask @ 100
Probably too many random people, there’s no way the WH can screen them all for Repug credentials like at his speeches.
pb, i heard property damage alone was $1B
neurophius @ 103
That I’m sure they’ll do; that’s what insurance companies DO.
There was a very large fire in SoCal 4 years ago. Some folks just finished rebuilding about 3 months ago.
DrDick @ 109
“No one could have anticipated…”
A friend has a weekend place in Arrowhead that she said didn’t do very well. I don’t have any idea where that is though.
madmommy @ 96
Or Hawaii!
neurophius @ 89
There isn’t time to have them all swear a loyalty oath.
solai @ 99
Fire Tornado’s was the hold up. The winds were 80mph.
peanutbutter @ 114
Its so bad here I’m thinking about going to stay somewhere else tonight.
tbsa @ 118
Some of the homes lost four years ago were burned again in this fire.
CTuttle @ 121
Where does one evacuate to if a hurricane is imminent? Not like you can go a few states over, after all.
ccmask, lake arrowhead is in the mts just north of san bernadino if looking at a map.
Burned-up Residents Fault Officials for San Diego’s Devastating Fires
Bradblog weighs in…
ccmask @ 108
Maybe that is what Faux News was trying to set up yesterday with the FBI report thingie.
Zee @ 124
Wise choice. I pretty much stayed indoors for all of August when it was so bad here. Not good to breath any more of that stuff than necessary.
kristine @ 125
Just found out today that that exact thing happened to a friends home in Arrowhead.
#59, 99
Depends on where the planes were based: if they had to fly through LA county, it was still bad yesterday morning. It was 20-25 knots where I was: not much fun being out. It’s down to ‘calm’ today; much relief here. Also much less smoke visible, but it’s mostly spread thinner, I think. We’ll get more when it blows back in.
tbsa, where did you get that information from?
I was thinking the same thing about faux myself, mary mcc, when i heard about it on ko
madmommy @ 126
You go North-Fast.
neurophiu: Yeah, you’re right that they can’t be screened. Never thought of that. Or maybe there are too many horses there? He’s such a wuss.
CTuttle @ 121
Or east of 1-95 in Florida.
They probably wouldn’t have any trouble getting Ghouliani to helicopter in and declare it the work of the terrists…
Suzanne @ 127
Thanks Suzanne.
neurophius @ 138
He could claim to be an Angels/Dodgers/Padres fan too!
I’m sure there are heads of our government who are wishing the fires had started in September instead of October so they could tie them into some sort of 9/11 anniversary terrorist attack by the foreign born illegal alien arsonists.
When the fire happened 4 years, Gray Davis had asked the Feds for some additional funding to clear some parts of those canyons because of diseased trees and there were lots and lots of dead trees. Of course Bushco said no. Arnie took office shortly before the last fire and the rest is history.
tbsa @ 118
That would be the 2003 San Diego fires. I don’t know what all they did in terms of rebuilding.
Laguna Beach is a good example of improving things after a fire: they were practically wiped out after a huge fire in ‘93 that practically burned to the beach, and then subsequently buried in mudslides. Since then, they rebuilt with wider streets (for fire engines to get through) water storage along the ridges, fire breaks maintained on perimeters, way upgraded fire codes.
Malibu on the other hand doesn’t seem to do that, I don’t know why. They’ve been burnt to the ground regularly since at least 1930.
Irvine has a habit of putting wide ring roads around villages, you could see shots of firefighters using these as staging areas to beat back fires coming up toward the ring roads. There’s intelligent things to do.
However, it’s not all a question of “thoughtless development”. Much of the canyon areas that got hit had homes there at least 30 or more years old. One structure that burnt was 100 years old. In this case, what we had was a failure of the normal sort of response we have — ie, beat down the Santiago fire while it was still in Santiago. Different kettle of fish. I would guess San Diego has the problem of so many fires all at once as well — they’re not getting mutual aid from OC and LA like they usually would.
In THAT light, read this: Arnold’s Katrina? Governor vetoed bills to strengthen fire departments. Note the original publication date of that one :-/
OK, rambling now.
ccmask @ 136
Personally, I think they were afraid he’d be distracted by the face-painters and clowns on stilts entertaining the kids. (snark)
madmommy @ 126
We have ‘hardened’ structures available, however, if one would broadside us at Cat. 4 or 5, I’d be doing a lot of praying… Fortunately, Iniki, was only Cat. 2 and many of the structures withstood the impact on Kauai.
ccmask @ 120
San Bernardino, way east inland.
with everything else there is to worry about, no one should lose sleep over the insurance companies getting off the hook on the terrorism exclusion. The insurance companies would have to prove it applied, and I don’t think a clip from Fox news is gonna do it. Furthermore y’all’s courts out there are better than most when it comes to these sorts of issues.
OldCoastie @ 133
I saw the fire tornado’s on teevee. The weather channel was reporting winds at 80mph yesterday.
Suzanne @ 141
Jeebus Suzanne. I just wrote almost the same thing but didn’t post it. Great minds and all.
Zee @ 124
Not surprised. The sky was practically black this afternoon.
CTuttle @ 145
is it safe to assume that building codes reflect the nessisity of sheltering in place (strapping, storm shutters, etc), rather than evacuating?
tbsa @ 123
neokneme @ 128
Yep. Had a major political battle between the governor and the Rethugs in the legislature this last year over funding for fire fighting. Governor wanted to increase the amount set aside for that and the Rethugs insisted on pay-as-you-go funding. Mind you, it burns here every year in a pretty big way (though this year was a bad one), so we know we will need that and the current set aside is generally woefully inadequate to the purpose.
lets assume (geez i really dislike that word) that the winds were the troubles - can anyone explain to me why the planes were not brought in closer to socal so they would be immediately available when the winds did die down?
why the wait until this morning before the planes even started heading to ca?
I saw Michael Brown, on TV today, I think it was on Fox (on channel surfing) and he said part of the fault is the environmentalists who will not allow controlled burns in the National or State Forests.
Of course, I changed the channel, as soon as I could.
neurophius @ 138
I’m surprised he wasn’t there beforehand. He usually is right where the terror tacks.
tbsa @ 148
well, that might be in one little spot… I just checked the local weather station, and here, the highest gust of wind between 8am and 3pm (when the air support finally arrived) was 30mph… and that was just one gust… winds were blowing 15mph and gusting to 20, occassionally 25, for the rest of the period… now, once again, how come the planes could fly in Malibu and Canyon Country under very similar conditions but “it was too dangerous” to fly in Orange County?
it doesn’t make any sense…
peanutbutter @ 152
I saw them on CNN with my own eyes. They are also all over teevee in California local news stations.
madmommy @ 151
No, you have to evacuate.
Let me illustrate. A house, built entirely of metal and concrete, in LA county (rebuilt after the original wood house burned down to the ground) did survive the next fire. Nothing at all flamamble inside it survived. The 900 degree fires just went right through it.
You can do some stuff, which is mostly to make it much harder for embers and such to spark a new fire, clear brush around to make it harder for the fires to approach, but if the fires come bearing down you get the hell out of dodge.
marymccurnin @ 149
as i pushed submit, i thought perhaps i was being too cynical
madmommy @ 151
Strapping is required in all, retrofitted… storm shutters are not except in the hardened sites…!
peanutbutter @ 159
My bad; I missed that this was about proofing for hurricanes, not fires.
OldCoastie @ 158
I’m about 2 hours north. Our local news was reporting 65 mph winds yesterday. The weather channel was reporting 80mph.
Suzanne @ 160
I am sorry to say that I don’t think that’s possible in these parlous times. Not only irony but hyperbole is dead these days!
Suzanne @ 154
Indeed. Here we mobilize the resources immediately and stage them where they can be quickly deployed when conditions are right.
OldCoastie @ 158
No it doesn’t. Even if you do assume that LA some how had 80mph winds in between, then you freaking fly around or over it! You’re not needing to fly low to dump stuff in transit…
peanutbutter @ 159
Sorry, I wasn’t clear-I was referring to evacuating from homes in Hawaii if a hurricane is imminent. Obviously, the items you list are very common sense for folks who live in fire prone areas, but as you say sometims it is just time to get the hell out.
kristine @ 144
Kristine that is too funny. Really.
Sandman @ 155
I do not know about there, but our enviros are the ones pushing for controlled burns. It is the timber companies who resist it.
peanutbutter @ 166
I have no idea if they should have been flying or not. My guess is the resources were not in place to make a significant difference. I was just reporting what I saw and heard.
tbsa, what you are saying then, is that the winds were MUCH heavier in your area and you had air support - lots and lots and lots of it… Lake Arrowhead has a some fire support and they were flying that big DC-10 up there… but for some reason, neither OC or San Diego had any damn planes…
I’m telling you, it wasn’t the wind that kept the planes out of here.
DrDick @ 169
Faux News gets it completely wrong again? Who would have thought…
peanutbutter @ 159
PB, Apples and Oranges… Hurricanes were what MM and I were talking about…! ;-)
We crossed in the Toobz…
Nice. Watching KO repeat. Dana Perino says having California’s national guard and their resources in Iraq is more important than having them in California.
Loud and clear Perino.
ccmask @ 168
Thanks. *blushes*
OldCoastie @ 171
I completely believe what you’re saying. I was telling you what the weather channel was saying yesterday.
It’s all about the lack of resources.
CTuttle @ 145- is it safe to assume that building codes reflect the nessisity of sheltering in place (strapping, storm shutters, etc), rather than evacuating?
You cannot shelter in that way from a fire. The realities in CA are different than your. I can tell ya, storm shutters would be of no use.
Only pertinent thing I can come up with, off hand, is that housing codes in LA county at least require that if a shake roof is replaced it has to be not a shake roof. These are tinder in fires.
Zee @ 174
She’s just a Stepford robot, isn’t she?
Suzanne @ 52
Dana P said he was coming to comfort the victims.
demi @ 83
That’s a terrific example for any of us in a similar situation. Thanks for sharing that idea; hold something in reserve.
Woo Hoo, Game over! 13-1 BoSox!
it wasn’t just the lack of resources, it was the management of them… take fer instance, Suzanne’s comment that they didn’t bring planes in from No Cal….
neurophius @ 89
On advice from OldBar, no doubt.
madmommy @ 178
Makes me want to scream.
TexBetsy @ 47
Zee @ 174
*headkerplooie*
Ah hell, I already had a headache…
SunnyNobility @ 179
…while not actually being in the same place.
If anyone is interested, you can pick up one of these government issueed gas masks very cheap. I made about 500 of them right after 911. Clothespins are very cheap.
DrDick @ 169
Michael Brown is as stupid as Fox News Whore House.
SunnyNobility @ 179
I am wondering what is going to happen after the insurance companies start denying claims. These folks are going to come unglued, and unlike the unfortunate folks in NOLA these people have some cash.
peanutbutter @ 159
No shit. Laguna is an example of the kinds of things you can and should do in response to these conditions. These, however, will only reduce, not eliminate the fire danger. When you live in a fire ecology you have to accept a certain amount of fire danger. That does not mean you have to accept administrative incompetence in dealing with fires when they happen. I’m with Old Coastie, I do not see why the planes could not fly. As the the fire “tornados” those are really just whirlwinds and we get them here as well with th big fires, but they do not affect the ability of planes to fly. Ground crews are a whole different matter and they clear out.
TeddySanFran @ 183
because it did not work out quite well for them last time
OldCoastie @ 157
I can foresee some major ugliness looming after the ash settles, about the contrast between response to wildfires in Malibu and floods in St Bernard Parish. Rightful ugliness.
EvilDrPuma @ 186
He makes me all warm and fuzzy. No. Never mind. That’s just smoke inhalation.
Calitics, CA political blog, also has regular info on fires, how you can help, etc.
http://www.calitics.com/frontPage.do
Oxygen is for losers.
Valley Girl @ 177
VG, I understand, but, MM and I were talking about surviving Hurricanes, not fires or quakes…
oddmommy @ 192
then add in the mudslides that will follow as soon as the rains come and the forkers will say it was an act of god or some bullshit to get out of paying claims
ccmask @ 187
707!
OldCoastie @ 171
I heard someone say at one of the earlier news conferences something to the effect that the aid always gets allocated to the northern part of the fire and works its way down south, so that we in San Diego are the last to get help.
In a slightly less cynical vein, it could also be that the areas that started to burn first, like Malibu, may have called dibs on the equipment first. Just a theory.
Off to bed for me. Here’s hoping that the end is near for these fires and the folks affected can begin to recover. Goodnight all.
Congrats CT!
Group News Blog has a nice succinct little post on “Where’s the National Guard?”
The money quote:
“How many people are going to sign up for the Guard anymore? Like everything the Republicans get their hands on, it turns to shit.”
ccmask @ 195
Dave Lister’s Confidence, is that you?
OldCoastie @ 182
Or Montana at all or Oregon until today.
Just got out of a meeting …
Calitics is all over it
http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4159
Information phone numbers for people in SoCal to call
Animal Evacuations: 818-991-0071
Arrowhead Schools: 909-499-9900
Buckweed, Canyon Fire: 323-881-2411
Coronado Hills Fire: 619-590-3160
Grass Valley Fire: 909-383-5688
Harris, Rice, McCoy Fire: 619-590-3160
Irvine: 714-628-7085
Lake Forest: 714-628-7085
Malibu: 310-456-2489
Orange County: 800-540-8282
Ranch Fire: 626-574-5208
Riverside: 909.988.3650
Roca Fire: 951-940-6985
Santa Clarita Evacuations: 661-295-6366
Santiago Fire: 714-573-6200
Sedgewick Fire: 805-681-5546
Slide and Witch Fire: 619-590-3160
US Forest Line: 626-574-5208
CTuttle @ 198
I ended up painting so many of them clothespins and gave them out to customers at my restaurant during the anthrax scares.
CTuttle @ 196
CT- I read those comments after I made my own comment. Wasn’t quite up to speed when I commented. Sorry.
oddmommy @ 192
Malibu always gets the immediate response. I saw this pointed out back in ‘05.
What I think the interesting thing is some of these areas in OC and SD have at least as much money as Malibu (which also has its share of not-as-rich-as-God people). Rancho Santa Fe for example has some of the nations most expensive homes — that’s right “nation” not “state”…
Could be verrrry interesting.
Aloha, Mad Mommy!
Suzanne @ 197
Suz - they would cast doubt on gravity if they thought it would keep them from paying claims.
nice folks they are
Hugs to those displaced by the firestorms. Hoping the wet west wind protects you all!
Quick O/T: Hey, remember that evil decadent school in Maine that was handing out condoms to eleven-year-olds (or so the press breathlessly told us)?
Turns out it’s all bullshit.
Time for another blogger ethics panel!
Re-Post, but good summary of Republican criminal negligence:
Gov’t Auditors Warned Bush Administration About Poor Firefighting Plans
HuffPo
Well, I gotta go. Night all. Thanks for the thread Ted.
I’ll give that the fires in Malibu came first - in fact, OC had sent crews up and then we couldn’t get ‘em back when we needed them - LA County wouldn’t release them… I guess the thing that pissed me off the most was when our fire was still manageable and a couple big drops by one big plane would have fixed things right up quick, I could see the big tankers dropping water on grass blazes up north that were no where near houses… while our structures were within feet of being burned to the ground… put a lot of firefighters lives in jeopordy unnecessarily…
*waving to all the leaving sleepy pups*
Phoenix Woman @ 210
Now you know that ethics only apply to progressives.
ccmask @ 212
Night. Sleep well.
I just wanted to mention that if California was its own country, it would be the 10th largest economy in the world. They have far, far more resources than Louisiana ever had.
Zee @ 174
And that’s why her boss is afraid to go to Qualcomm. For his own amusement.
kristine @ 199
Federal fire managers (and hopefully state ones as well) allocate resources according to need not claiming first dibs. We may benefit from the fact that most of what burns up here is national forests so we get highly trained professionals running the fire response.
Choppers were flying in San Diego much of the time, but the shifting winds (and fires often create their own weather patterns) grounded the fixed-wings. Those are the ones that can carry and drop large loads of water or retardant. Much depends on the landscape and fire patterns.
As for the San Diego Union-Tribune, it’s never pulled itself out of the 1950’s. Don’t expect greatness on any count unless, as with the Randy Duke Cunningham case, greatness is thrust upon it (by a Copley news guy based in D.C.).
We’re all breathing easier here as the weather pattern changes. And if Bush is staying away from Qualcomm, yay!! That was a model of community cooperation, with people contributing what they had to offer. Yes, that included massages, entertainment, acupuncure, books, and fancy food from local restaurants. Anything to help. It doesn’t prove we’re all effete, sushi-eating, impudent snobs. We give what we have.
As for Bush, he doesn’t belong anyplace where human beings sacrifice for other human beings, whatever their race or economioc status. We’ve got enough air pollution around here here right now. We don’t need him adding to it.
Steve-AR @ 211
Par for the course with this Maladministration, can we please impeach these sorry f*cks already?!!!
I’m gonna go too. Gotta talk with hubby about whether we bail and go where the smoke is better.
Thanks, y’all.
ccmask @ 187
That’s funny. Is that why your handle is ccmask?
peanutbutter @ 207
As if the Rethugs were not already having enough problems with fund raising.
Suzanne @ 191
Or maybe he’s afraid of llamas and horses. I saw a photo of a guy walking his dog and his llama around the parking lot at Qualcomm.
Watching KO, just saw a clip of boosh talking about how we don’t torture, and about whatever we don’t do helped foil many terrorist attacks.
He could not help smirking as he said, “…despite the fact our people use lawful interrogation techniques…”
Has anyone heard how our beloved therapod is doing? Perhaps PatRex will show up in the thread tonight and give us an update.
oddmommy @ 192
Eyewitless News Channel Five interviewed Katrina survivors in the Bay Area last nite. The focus was on the contrast in the response and how people were assisted in each disaster. The anchors summed it up: “demographics” and a “California can-do attitude.”
Night ccmask.
OldCoastie @ 213
You know what? That is really, REALLY sickening.
I am so f*****g tired of living in a plutocracy.
Kind of makes one appreciate where the French Revolution came from.
john in sacramento @ 204
Thanks, John, these are all great resources for people. Appreciate your bringing them up here.
I wonder what woman boosh will send to qualcomm to meet with the common people - you don’t think they are gonna send pickles do you?
boosh always sends in a woman to do the things that he is too much of a yellow-bellied lily-livered coward to do himself.
TeddySanFran @ 228
Reporting Fuckery.
CatelynK @ 220
What CatelynK said.
Stay home, you evil fratboy.
newtonusr @ 209
Oh yes. Fought that battle after my mother’s house (with earthquake insurance) was badly damaged in the 1994 quake- 3 miles from epicenter. Ironically, she would have been much better off had she not had earthquake insurance, bec. FEMA was much better. then again, Clinton was pres at the time
Night Zee, hope you get some relief from the smoke.
Someone at calitics.com said that ICE was at Qualcom today.
oddmommy @ 230
Certainly has its appeal doesn’t it?
Old Coastie is right, this was miserable fire mangement.
CatelynK @ 220
Just wanted to repeat that bit again.
marymccurnin @ 237
oh that’s just great! what a bunch of assholes…!
ICE at qualcom is just fucking wrong.
certainly not what jeebus would say should be done to help one’s fellow man
OldCoastie @ 240
How much evil creativity does it take to come up with some of this crap? Can’t you just hear it. “Lets go over to Qualcom and see if we can bust us some little brown people.”
OldCoastie @ 240
This will warm the cockles of your heart. Tancredo proving he is a “compassionate conservative”.
didn’t trancredo threaten to sic ICE on people durbin had scheduled to speak at an immigration rights presser? or am i misremembering again
Suzanne @ 244
See my post just above yours.
Valley Girl @ 235
Yeppers, private insurance is the way to go, particularly Health Ins…! ;-)
More info
http://www.firescope.org/fires.htm
Half of this one is Arnold worship but still some good info
http://www.calfires.com/
More Phone Numbers
Orange County PIO
714-628-7085
Orange County Media
714-573-6200
Ventura
805-388-4276
Los Angeles
800-980-4990
San Bernardino County
info Line
USFS
909-355-8800
909-383-5688
San Diego
211 or cell users
858-300-1211
Santa Barbara
805-961-5770 or
805-681-4100
Riverside
951-940-6985
we were thinking alike again dr (pause) dick
I’m slow. Who/what is ICE?
I know these are particularly savage fires but, here in Australia, the advice is to prepare your property well and, if you’re physically and mentally able to do so, stay and defend your house.
TJ @ 249
the storm troopers of immigration
TJ @ 249
Immigration and Customs Enforcement…
Immigration and Customs Enforcement
TJ @ 249
Used to be INS (La Migra) before DHS consolidation.
TJ @ 249
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (black boots).
J. Fucking C. That’s abominable.
So do I owe you all cokes, or do most of us give one apiece to OC?
TJ, did we answer ya? ;-)
CTuttle @ 258
You guys never neglect me, lol.
persiflage @ 250
G’day, Persi! How’s Howard doing these days?
Elliott @ 16
Thank goodness. ((pups))
john in sacramento @ 247
I am troubled by the fact that not once in all my online trawling have I seen TDD numbers supplied, or even fax numbers, or indeed any such sort of information.
Worldwide disaster alert map
http://visz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/i.....p;lang=eng
I would just like to point out for the record that when boosh visits California tomorrow, he will dress in a long sleeved shirt, the sleeves of which he will proceed to roll up to his elbows to show he’s doin’ hard work.
ok pups, I’m completely outta gas… jammie time.
take care all.
neurophius @ 264
yeah, long sleeves will be appropriate in 85 degree weather…
will bush wear a blue shirt so he looks like one of us commoners
peanutbutter @ 262
That is an excellent point PB, and one that we should really do something about, at the local, state and federal level. In emergencies like this one or other disasters, having not having TDD #s is crazy. I’m going to email my county’s emergency services right now, to make sure they’re aware of that.
persiflage @ 250
For me, my house is not worth dieing for, but that’s just me.
john in sacramento @ 263
Hmm… I see I slept through a 3.0 earthquake this morning…!
TJ @ 249
I’m slower. What’s Qualcom?
he’ll be completely drenched in sweat - it is so attractive!
Night OC. I am right behind you. Best wishes to all the SoCal Pups, breath shallow and stay safe.
Nite, OC!
oddmommy @ 271
A phone company and a football stadium.
oddmommy @ 271
qualcom is the baseball statium in san diego
Hi Teddy: I’m thoroughly pissed off with Bay-area democratic leadership, Feinstein and Peolsi. What the hell is wrong with those women? Will you please throw their asses out of congress? Please, please, please?
john in sacramento @ 263
Look at all the volcanos and earthquakes on that map. I’ve never seen a map like this.
oddmommy @ 271
The football stadium in San Diego, home of the Chargers…
CTuttle @ 260
Suzanne @ 277
Oh, wrong answer, Safeco is the baseball stadium, but very close.
oddmommy @ 271
Qualcomm stadium, where our local football team plays. Some 10,000 evacuees are seeking shelter there.
Suzanne @ 277
Don’t the Padres have their own stadium?
peanutbutter @ 262
Hmmm, good point. I don’t know
Sandman @ 282
must be why i don’t moderate at a sports blog and choose a politcal one instead
Sandman @ 269
That’s just the thing, Sandman. People who stay and actively defend their houses don’t die.
Qaulcomm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Stadium
Sandman @ 282
Not Safeco, Petco. Theyre a chain of pet stores who bought the naming rights.
persiflage @ 281
When do ya get to oust his okole?
tbsa @ 92
We have friends that live in Pensecola, Florida and people there can’t sell their homes because no one can get Homeowners Insurance. Most Homeowner Carriers have left the state or aren’t writing new policies. We have heard other Southern States are having problems too.
Suzanne @ 277
It’s a football stadium, Home of the SanDiego Chargers. They have been relocated to Arizona temporarily.
persiflage @ 287
What!
kristine @ 283
and the immigration thugs showed up there today to arrest “illegals”? This really happened? (not questioning anybody’s veracity, just can’t believe my ears….um, eyes).
marymccurnin @ 293
The first death in the So CA fires was a man who refused to leave his home. Multiple deaths in the Oakland hills fires were people who tried to save their homes….
persiflage @ 287
Further to that, see here. These people know a thing or two about wildfires.
Suzanne @ 267
His special “rolled-up-sleeves” model made just for disasterpressers.
kristine @ 289
I got Seattle and San Diego, mixed up. Oops!
tbsa @ 292
Tempe, I wonder how many games will be postponed, it’ll take awhile to clean up, look at the Super Dome, not withstanding the structural damage…
CTuttle @ 299
People lived in the Superdome without food and water for days. Much dirtier.
CTuttle @ 299
The folks there are all so civilized. Perhaps because they had supplies on arrival.
oddmommy @ 294
Well, the Preznit did say the federal guvment was gonna do everything it could do to help, didn’t he?
Good evening dear friends. I return with your roasted vegetable snack.
PB @ 262: I sent a letter to the coordinator of Sonoma County’s Emergency Services re: TDD #s. I think that’s just an excellent point.
Persiflage, I looked at that link. It sounds like people are much better prepared about fires in your neck of the bush than in suburban US.
newness
In SF, Candlestick became PacBell. But then SBC bought PacBell, so I’m not sure what the stadium was called. But it may have been 3Com for a while.
To me, this crap is pointless, and does nothing to improve my view of these companies.
marymccurnin @ 293
It’s true Mary. I read the first study into it about 30 years ago in an insurance industry magazine. They found that those stubborn old codgers who refused to leave were not only alive after the fire, but their houses were intact too. It’s the regular advice here - if you can, stay; if you can’t get out early.
TJ @ 306
It just makes the towns they are in look stupid. Example: Enron Field.
How dumb was that? And probably Enron didn’t pay to have their name taken off whatever it’s called now, since they were “bankrupt.”
TeddySanFran @ 308
Reliant Stadium.
peanutbutter @ 112
You also have to take into consideration that the vast percentage of value of most homes in California is in the land and not the improvements. As prices skyrocketed in early 2000-2005, it wasn’t a big increase in building costs, it was just demand that fueled prices and the demand like that increases land values, not improvements. Conversely, as values fall, it is typically reflected in land values.
Laura Doty @ 304
Too many fires, too many deaths. We are prepared for fire like Californians are prepared for earthquakes.
persiflage @ 311
Better, perhaps. A lot of folks don’t prep for quakes as they should. I’m afraid too many of us live as though nature is something far away, not what we all live inside.
TJ @ 306
Candlestick Park was renamed 3Com Park at Candlestick Point and now is Monster Park named after a local wire cable company. The new baseball stadium downtown started out as PacBell, was changed to SBC, and now has been renamed AT&T Park as the mergers have consolidated the phone companies. The SF 49er’s home is Monster Park.
wow, that Beatles video is brutal for Ringo, consigned to holding the umbrella and not even singing a single note of the chorus.
Zee @ 174
Why couldn’t an uppity state phase out its national guard and substitute a state service group w/no military training? (assuming the great wot is perpetual)
neurophius @ 89
It’s probably a security issue. If he were anywhere near people it would be tough to stop them from ripping him to shreds.
Too late to even read comments and EPU’d anyway. WGAF?
But! I rec’d email today for an ‘alternate’ username … from the Humane Society of the United States or some such shit. The only reason I believe this is SPAM is becaue the Jennifer username has ONLY been used on one website.
I have to ask myself why someone in Australia would have a particular interest in the animal rescue attempt half a world away!
So this cynic reckons, if they ask for money for a ‘good cause’ it will probably never get there! Else why use bought or data-mined e-addresses?!
Please see Daily Kos. CA Fires: good and bad charities by dogemperor. Red Cross and Salvation Army put donations in a general fund rather than a specific disaster fund unless directed and there are many other problems with a lot of the well known charities (wingnut problems)
I know there will be some kneejerk reactions that I am “blaming the victims”, but the fact is that San Diegan No-New-Taxes Republicans shot themselves in the foot, both before and after the 2003 fires.
“At the same time, he said it was disheartening to know that four years after some of the costliest fires in state history tore through the area, little had been done to better the odds of fighting fires there.
Bowman had told San Diego city officials it would cost at least $100 million to add needed new stations and equipment and $40 million a year more to increase staff. That investment, he said, is what it would take to bring San Diego into compliance with national standards. Those guidelines call for a city of San Diego’s size to have at least 22 more stations than the current 46, and 1,300 firefighters, up from the 980 now on staff.
But his appeal had no effect. Four months after the Cedar fire, a ballot proposal to boost hotel-motel taxes to pay for better fire protection failed to win voter approval. The City Council, mindful of the anti-tax mood of residents, has opted not to try again.
San Diego was recently denied full accreditation by the Commission on Fire Accreditation International, now called the Center for Public Safety Excellence, because many of its stations fail to meet the five-minute standard for arriving at major fires or calls for paramedic service.
“This whole county is fire protection poor,” Bowman said, noting that the city has added only one fire station in the four years since more than 5,000 homes and businesses were destroyed in the Cedar fire. And that temporary station near Qualcomm Stadium is in an area where at least two permanent stations have been recommended by fire officials for the last 20 years.
“Bottom line,” Bowman said, “is staffing has not improved.”"
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo.....ome-center
Maybe more funding for fire protection, recommended by all the experts and authorities, would not have prevented or slowed the fires. But doing nothing is not an alternative.
So what do you get stories of? Fat ass Republicans saving their horses in Rancho Santa Fe and Rancho Bernardo. Being from San Diego, I know these clowns.
Just curious, but does anybody on right wing sites ever ask what they can do to help victims of natural calamities?