There's a huge difference between people who are actual leaders and who happen to want to be President, and people who want to be President so they can be the leader. We're seeing that difference right now in the debate over whether the FISA bill will award retroactive immunity to the telecoms for their complicity in the Bush Administration's illegal spying programs.
Chris Dodd showed his leadership last week, announcing he would place a hold on, and if needed, personally filibuster any bill that granted the telecoms immunity. His principled stand to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law was immediately joined by Senator Feingold, who, like Dodd, has been a champion of the Constitution, insisting on the FISA (and Fourth Amendment) requirement to obtain individual warrants before conducting surveillance on US persons. And to his credit, Senator Biden gave an unqualified, unhestitating "yes" when asked if he supported Dodd's position.
These men understand that upholding the rule of law requires holding the Administration and those complicit in their lawbreaking accountable for their actions. Granting immunity for willfully violating a criminal statute and the Fourth Amendment's guarantee against warrantless searches undermines the Constitution and the rule of law, one of those "self evident truths" that should not need explaining.
These are the Democratic Party's true leaders. They understand that defending the Constitution is their first duty as citizens and elected officials. They did not wait to see which way the wind was blowing or see what their colleagues (or other candidates) might say or check to see if they might be supported. They knew what needed to be said and done and that's what they did.
Dodd, Feingold and Biden understand that the Constitution and the rule of law are under siege by a lawless Administration and that it is critical for principled officials to stand up against this assault. They know that some of their colleagues are weak and susceptible to other influences. Someone has to lead, to defend the Constitution, to take the risks that their stands might be unpopular or lonely, but to set the standard that others will follow. It is because of patriotic leaders like Senators Dodd and Feingold that we have a Constitution in the first place, and why, at critical times in our history when it was under siege, the Constitution persevered and served our nation well for over 200 years.
There are others who aspire to leadership, but do not readily demonstrate it, but whose support in following the leaders is nevertheless essential. So we should welcome the statements yesterday from Senators Obama and Clinton that indicate -- sort of -- they will support a filibuster of at least the "current bill" if it contains retroactive immunity for telecoms.
Here, via TPM's Greg Sargent, is a statement from Senator Obama's spokesman from yesterday:
"Senator Obama has serious concerns about many provisions in this bill, especially the provision on giving retroactive immunity to the telephone companies. He is hopeful that this bill can be improved by the Senate Judiciary Committee. But if the bill comes to the Senate floor in its current form, he would support a filibuster of it."
And here, via Greg Sergant from TPM, is Senator Clinton's statement:
Q: Can you discuss your position on the reauthorization of the FISA bill?HRC: I am troubled by the concerns that have been raised by the recent legislation reported out of the Intelligence Committee. I haven't seen it so I can't express an opinion about it. But I don't trust the Bush Administration with our civil rights and liberties. So I'm going to study it very hard. As matters stand now, I could not support it and I would support a filibuster absent additional information coming forward that would convince me differently.
Neither of these statements is as definitive as it should be, nor as clear on the important principles at stake. And both statements leave wiggle room -- in Clinton's case far too much. What does she stand for? What will she risk to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution? I honestly can't tell. It's agonizing to ponder how Clinton and her aides must have agonized over the wording of that statement.
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yo
Good morning, Scarecrow
Caw caw! Good morning Scarecrow. Wasn’t it great having Senator Dodd here live to answer our questions? He’s saying what I want to hear about restoring Constitutional democracy.
If the Democrats take Congress and the WH next year, will they be leading the country or just taking more abuse from the Right Wing crazies?
If they really want to get something done in DC, the first thing to do is enforce the law that has been broken. In FISA, broken needlessly. What happened with the DOJ has to be changed and prosecuted. If it is not, and we just “move on” which is always what happens in Washington, then it’s going to happen again and again.
1,636 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Yo folks…Mrs.Clinton is so far behind the curve she’s triangulated herself right into the Republican Party.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION
Good Morning Scarecrow!
you said it!
Big difference between joining in the filibuster and supporting it.
Off to mop the floors.
egregious @ 3
EG - I was able to listen last night at home - wow - all that was missing was the music from “Top Gun” - Sen. Dodd is someone I can really get behind. He really does understand what being a leader means.
GeorgeSimian @ 4
stop making sense!
Hillary’s Hedge,
all she has to say when she votes for telecom immunity is that she heard some secret thing she can’t tell us
egregious @ 3
I was very sorry to miss that; been on business trip last two days. I’ve notice every time I leave, the world starts going to hell in a handbasket.
The California fire is just stunning; it’s going to be a real test of the entire emergency response system.
Good morning everyone.
I actually think Congress has been doing a better job since they blew it with Iraq. I guess on Iraq, they’ve just given up (we’ll see about this war budget). But at least with some of this other stuff, they’re getting somewhere and rightfully blaming the loyal Bush Repubs when they block stuff. The one thing Democrats have to somehow overcome is that label that the Repugs keep out there, and pound into our heads over and over again - that the Democrats think we aren’t paying enough taxes and that we should tax more.
Elliott @ 10
That’s why the telecoms want immunity, they’ve heard a lot of secret things. Our personal and business information [hat tip perris].
When it comes to civil liberties, there cannot be, and is, no grey area. These cowards cannot be let off the hook when it comes to rights as fundamental as these. (I know I’m preaching to the choir here…!)
I don’t think many in the general public either understand or are willing to fight for civil liberties, but there needs to be public education, followed by public action. Most of all, we’re going to have to keep the pressure on equivocators like Obama and Clinton. No rewards for waffling, folks…
I’ve notice every time I leave, the world starts going to hell in a handbasket.
Um, Scarecrow, would you please arrange to stay home until November 08, please?
Thank you.
GeorgeSimian @ 12
so are they saying antiquated equipment and underfunded emergency responses are the way things should be
and will continue to be under the wise and benign hand of compssionate conservatism?
bushfires rage on?
one thing we haven’t talked about much is prospective immunity.
i don’t want a fisa bill that says everything done in the future is ok.
thanx as always for the early morning post, I get jonesed when I have to go to work without a chat by the lake
here’s where the democrats MUST go if our republic is to survive the corporate onslaught of campaign contributions;
we MUST have public finance of elections
PERIOD
if a candidate wants to use THEIR OWN assets for their candidacy, THAT is fine, but NOT corporate.
now get what I am saying here because even though the mainn theme has been bandied about I have added a new caveat;
even if I own the corporation, under my proposal I would not be able to use any corporate assets, I would be required to use my own unprotected bank account
corporations cannot have the right to influence our government, they cannot have the right to buy our law
that is the only way our way of life will continue for our children and grand children
Dodd does gets it.. Clinton does not…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dodd_(ambassador)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Hirsch
Since Dodd’s dad was a progressive in line with FDR, Dodd is probably more familiar with the history of the “1933 business plot,” than most. I would like to hear if he thinks a connection exist between the “interests” wanting to overthrow FDR, and the “interests” pushing for war today. Many similarities exist between then, and issues today. If not for America’s involvement in WWII it has been suggested, FDR would have been removed in a coup?
Elliott @ 10
we have to be at the ready for the correct answer to any such claim she might make
WE are the government
A quick drive-by good morning to everyone. Excellent points on Dodd, Scarecrow-I’ve been an Edwards guy since the beginning, but I’m leaning heavily toward Dodd, and I think there are many more like me. If John Edwards and Barak Obama aren’t careful, a lot of Dodd’s support will come right out of their hide.
Best of the day to all.
Hi demi. Hope all is well.:-)
demi @ 15
Well, I left out the minor fact that every time I stay home, the same thing happens. But that’s probably just coincidence.
egregious @ 13
thanx agreious
here’s where the democrats miss an important perspective that they have to hammer away with;
the main purpose of protecting our privacy is NOT to prevent government from finding out things we are ashamed of, it is to prevent government from finding out things we are PROUD of.
that information is OUR property, we worked HARD for it, it might be bussiness secrets, it might be personal tools we use for our decisions, it might be contacts, it might be future prospects
but the primary purpose pf privacy protection is NOT to keep secret from government things we are ashamed of, it’s to keep government from finding out things we are proud of
THAT is the way democrats need to frame the discussion and EVERYONE, both democrats and republicans will agree it’s important to protect our valuable information from theves
Scarecrow @ 22
Can we find you a Schrödinger box for the duration?
Chris Dodd should should show some leadership and lead the move to kick HoJo out of the party and stop talking about his “friend” Joe.
Oh, well, no one’s perfect. Ha?
Morning to all upon the lake.Me I love my constitution like article one section 9 no ex post facto Law shall be passed. Just like shall impeach is in there .Those founding fathers sure were looking out for our country’s future and the people who live here.Off to the money chase
one of the things about dodd that i find so appealing is that his actions seem to be in response from a request (don’t know if this is acually true of course).
when so many of our so-called leaders are comfortable with throwing us under the bus, to see a politician react favorably to a request from the grass roots is a lovely thing. more please.
good morning, pups… coffee is ready and it is strong…
fires are better here in OC. the emergency response has been interesting to watch… evacuation centers were well stocked immediately and appeared to be pretty well organized… but, oh, the equipment to fight the fire! it was pitiful! and late! there just wasn’t enough - especially water-dropping tankers… Now, they are going to say down here that it was “too windy” to fly, but as of yesterday morning, the winds had laid down. Air support arrived 6 hours later and many, many homes were lost in those 6 hours with many, many more threatened.
Scary.
OldCoastie - very good to hear from you.
And as I read somewhere(s) why is Congresss involved in any immunity after all?
I mean, the Dems could just take that tact and cut it on that basis….let Bush’s ass ride on any backwards immunity
Hillary can kiss my ass. I am sick and tired of these mincing, triangulating, poll driven suck-ups. If she wins the primary I’m finding a new party.
OldCoastie, so glad you are safe!
Ahnold on the tv acting threatening towards a reporter who asked why OC didn’t get planes… sticking to the “too windy” lines…
asshole.
The entire intelligence “thingy” is completely out of control.
We are essentially a police state where these guys do whatever the f they want to with impunity and want immunity.
I want the entire “intelligence” thing redone. I don’t believe in the threats. Are there “threats”?
What are they? Are we facing an invasion and conquering armies? Are we facing random acts of terror? What do we need to do to prevent random acts of terror? Is it worth it? I don’t think it is.
I think that CIA and FBI and so forth are bureaucracies which want to continue and grow, they’re entrenched.
Chatter… yea right… So we have this big attack on 911 and we have our Norad, and trillion dollar defense industry and what happens? NOTHING we get nothing from all the “security”. And NO ONE IS HELD accountable. But wait… it becomes a convenience excuse to grab oil in the ME and do some genocide/ethnic cleansing and toss another billion to the MIC.
We have completely the wrong priorites. COMPLETELY.
cahuenga @ 31
Please add Nancy pelosi to that statement. SHe is an ABJECT FAILURE!
fyi - i just uploaded an additional 11 hearings to the hearings list for today (i wish the committees would get their schedules together!)… some interesting ones - but condi at 9:30 is still the one i’m going to watch.
Politicians should respond to the net roots… they should do the right thing without prodding. What a misguided self absorbed bunch of slackers.
It’s capitalism I fear. Follow the money.
It’s always the money. Always.
perris @ 23
Good morning all.
Indeed, perris;
If the government may access our thoughts,
then they have deliberately limited our ability to act. Including the determination to make fundamental changes regarding government itself.
That is their intent and apparently, now more often, their purpose.
may @ 16
I guess what they’re saying is that the President has power in regards to war and that they’re embarrassed that they gave him the autorization to invade Iraq. I mean, they gave him the power and it’s obviously harder for them, now, to take it away.
Condi gets treated with kid gloves because she’s a little black girl. Can’t crush a black girl.
She’s proven to be a liar, a slacker, an incompetent, and not worthy of heading the state department. She should be impeached… why waste time in hearings?
As always, thank you selise. We depend on you for the hearings schedule.
SanderO @ 40
The Cabinet members are all getting a pass by MSM and sex and skin color don’t seem to be a factor.
Dodd’s willingness to stand up for the abstract principle of warrants for telephone spying is an opportunity to teach as well as to lead. So many people are afraid of the terrorists that the administration feels safe in disregarding the abstract idea in favor of “action” and “protection”, so as Dodd goes about this, he can use this as an opportunity to teach people why that is a bad idea and why we defend principle especially when we are afraid.
I was too late, but my question would be: is there any danger to national security in disclosing what the telephone companies did? I don’t see any danger, but he probably knows a bit more than I do. I’ve said before that asking questions is an art. This is the kind of question that lets a leader teach people.
David W. Bartoo @ 38
If the government could do that, that would be Groundbreaking, wouldn’t it?
SanderO @ 34
Secrecy and ‘National Security’ may cover-up a multitude of sins. And most assuredly do.
Do you think that a certain political party might deign to speak to this truth?
actually, i think dodd may have just added a new component to the election season.
from now on, when there’s a bill coming down the line that the white house wants and the dems as a whole can’t seemingly form the collective will to block, then one of the dem senators running for prez ought to step up and put a hold on it. or explain why he or she won’t.
GeorgeSimian @ 39
i don’t understand.
the power is with the congress.
if they can give it.
they can take it.
recinding what has been given has nothing to do with feelings.
it is an excercise of legitimate sovereign power.
We can’t have a closed society. We can’t allow people to be spied on by the government without a damn good reason… and that needs to be reviewed.
We need to learn about exactly what the threats are.
The feds just lost another terra case for terra funding. This is such rubbish and an outrage.
Our lovely government has caused more death and destruction since 911 then all the terrorists of all time put together x 10.
JPL @ 42
Or gender either!
Elliott @ 44
What I meant, of course, is that if our thoughts, which we have framed into words and ideas, are not free of scrutiny when shared among friends or comrades seeking change, then the effect is chilling and results in self- censorship for the timid and perhaps worse for those who would dare think and advocate the ‘dangerous’ thoughts.
ot, but i think potentially useful:
why isn’t the national guard helping people in CA?
why isn’t the national guard avail to serve and protect in this natural disaster?
With the information I have learned with the net, FDL, LINK TV, DemocracyNow! I am convinced we, as a nation are heading 180° in the wrong direction. I am in more “despair” and depressed and alienated from this nation each and every day.
Sad thing is that there are amazing ethical and creative people here and they are mostly marginalized or else off making money. Oh there it is… the money thing again…
The WH is demanding the immunity of the telecos because they have to have a firewall to prevent any investigations into who was spying, on whom they were spying, what they were getting, and how they were using it. The telecos will sing like birdies when criminal investigators come around. Congress is not supposed to offer immunity, prosecutors offer immunity for a stiff price. The telecos could have several very viable defenses in lawsuits, but they would have to throw the Bushies overboard. Sen Dodd appears to see through this ploy. If the leadership does not, they may be deemed lackwits.
raven @ 49
laughing!
i’m really excited by dodd’s willingness to stand up - his action forces other dems to put up or shut up. for this reason, i expect he is getting a tremendous amount of push back.
from dave lindorff on senator dodd’s FISA immunity hold and filibuster threat:
In so doing, he gave the lie to the fraud that has been perpetrated by Pelosi and Reid that they and the Democrats are “powerless” to stop the war unless they have “60 votes” in the Senate.
-snip-
Dodd, however, is showing that they can prevent bad legislation by being the ones doing the filibustering, and that they then only need 41 votes-something they clearly could muster if the party’s leadership were behind it.
So Dodd is testing out this theory on the stinking betrayal of a bill the Democrats have come up with for the NSA. If he succeeds in blocking that bill, he will finally have to put his money where his mouth is, and anti-war bonifides by placing a similar hold on Bush’s new request for $46 billion more for the Iraq War.
That in turn would put the Democrats to the test. If, after running a campaign last fall promising they would end Bush’s war, and after failing miserably to do so for the past 10 months in power in Congress, they did not support a filibuster against further funding, they would stand exposed as the worst kind of charlatans and fraudsters.
Dodd, meanwhile, just two and a half months ahead of the start of the primary season, has a golden chance to vault himself to the head of the Democratic pack by making a genuine, concrete effort to end the war.
It wouldn’t matter if he failed. If Sen. Dodd were to put a hold on funding for the war, and were then to stand in the well of the Senate and filibuster any effort to pass such a bill, forcing his Democratic colleagues to expose themselves finally as being either for ending the war or continuing it, he would be an instant star of the anti-war movement. The 80-90 percent of Democrats who are opposed to the war would stampede to his support. Obama and Clinton, who are in the Senate with Dodd, would be forced to decide whether they wanted to continue to play to the party’s right wing and its corporate funders, or whether they would cast their lot with the peace wing.
Condi is getting a pass because she is a little black girl. If they piled on her they would be called racists and sexist because they let the white boys walk. And they do.
Mornin’ Scarecrow!
To bolster your post, take a look at this truthful, yet painful, article from Jim Hightower. He, like you Scarecrow, writes so the masses can understand. Now, the masses need to start….something, anything!!!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102307E.shtml
David W. Bartoo @ 50
You’re so right.
Not exactly the government (or is it?) example being AT&T censoring criticism online.
I am very pleased that Dodd has taken this clear and firm stand.
What baffles me is that they current legislation that was hastily pushed through before the August recess was due to the administration trying to blame an imminent terrorist attack on the Democrats for not getting FISA reformed. Then McConnell goes to a hearing in congress and lies about the new legislation assisting in the German terror plot to attack US military bases. The plot was uncovered prior to the new legislation. He had to “revise” his testimony later. Clearly, this administration is not trustworthy. Why in the world would any congress person believe a single word out of this administration?
cahuenga @ 31
Bears repeating and repeating!
SanderO @ 56
i don’t think this is so… what is the evidence to make such a claim? congress is giving almost everyone in the adminstration a pass.
What we have now is that Bush and 1/3 1 can run our government and direct its policy and funding. And they do it on every issue.
We have minority rule… and the support of these issues is in the 20% range with the American people.
Lovely.
selise @ 36
Thanks for the heads up. Have to call my house later for a play-by-play from the folks staying there due to fire evacs. Del Mar friends got the all clear, but can’t go home yet because of Interstate 5 being shut down near Camp Pendleton.
We’re all so looking forward to the GWB visit to the fire areas tomorrow. Will his crew bring their own klieg lights & generators as they did in Jackson Square? Stay tuned for the shirt-sleeves-rolled-up-extravaganza…
Elliott @ 58
it’s the main theme of privacy
the government WILL give access our valuable information and assets to the corporations that contribute, this is a fact not a speculation
this is the only way to frame the discussion, it’s the only thing they have no defense, it is a theme everyone agrees should not be allowed
let’s take a look at pelosi and her actions as an example;
I think it has crossed everyone’s mind that pelosi might be the target of blackmail and that might be why she has taken “impeachment off the table”
even if she is NOT blackmailed, the very idea that they can and HAVE spied on her makes us think she MIGHT have been balckmailed
they are stealing information they are not entitled too, they don’t want anyone to look to see that they aren’t stealing, they want a free hand to take whatever information they need
simple stuff here but the democrats aer not framing the debate the wat it needs to be framed
Anybody know if OklahomaKiddo heard from his daughter yesterday?
So long as one party doesn’t tap the other party’s campaign headquaters to react to strategies that haven’t even been annonced yet ,no foul.This could make someone look like a political genius,no?
There is no “evidence” of it, but I sense that the repukes used the race card in reverse to show how they are not racist, and to set up the appearance that the dems going after her were picking on a black woman.
She’s clearly incompetent. And acts very much the way [edited by moderator] on a plantation did. The slaves would not attack one of their own… right?
Even if they didn’t spy on her they can release false stories which have legs and they can show that they have done it in the past. You don’t mess with the mob… Do you?
JF @ 65
yes, she’s fine.
Hillary:
I don’t know if I can support the filibuster. What if I get poll results that say I’m weak on terror?
Barak:
I don’t know if I can support the filibuster. What if I get poll results that say I’m weak on terror?
JF @ 65
Somebody on an early morning post, can’t remember who, said they he had and that she’s fine.
Elliott @ 68
Thanks, Elliot.
Elliott @ 68
I missed that; is she in So Cal?
Scarecrow @ 72
yes, and he hadn’t heard from her for a while and couldn’t reach anyone who knew anything.
Kinda OT:
Here is a link to a Des Moines Register article: Link
The article outlines the fact that Democratic Presidential contenders have significantly more staff and cash actively working in Iowa. I particularly like the chart in the article. It shows that the Dems have almost 3 times the cash on hand going into the primary than the GOP.
Scarecrow @ 72
San Diego area.
What terror?
How many AQ are there? Anyone know this?
may @ 47
Obviously, they can’t, or they would. Washington is all about power and they’re not gong to miss an opportunity to get some back if they could. Don’t ask my why.
The only thing that explains it to me is that the Democrats are still recovering from that insane popularity that the Republicans had after 9/11 and are still frightened from that crazy machine. I think the Repugs are still coming to terms with the fact that they’re not riding that wave either, but they’ve still got some momentum from it from before.
OT
Condi hearing on CSPAN 3 at 9:30
Scarecrow, what would you do if someone (perhaps even the government) were blackmailing you? Given the popular ‘belief’ or commonly made assertion that ‘giving in’ to blackmailers only emboldens them, unless you are being threatened or your family is at risk, what would you keep quite to protect? Your job?
Your future prospects as a lobbyist? Your ‘good’ name?
If you were in D.C. representing the ‘interests’ of millions of other peoples’ interests and well-being, them I am certain, you would not easily be intimidated. In fact, I suspect you would, without doubt, stand up against such criminal behavior and fight it with all the capacity at your articulate and patriotic command.
They just broke into the local L.A. news to announce there was a 4.3 earthquake near Ridgecrest. A little something new to go w/the fire catastrophe. What next. Rain of toads, perhaps…
Have to drive over to work. Read you all later. Please hold positive thoughts for those affected by the fires here, & the firefighters who are working tirelessly to help them.
Elliot, thanks for update on Kiddo’s daughter.
Much appreciated.
James Joyce @ 19
James,
I’ve intuited the same connection, and would love to see your question answered. I’d bet, either thru bloodline or bankbook, there are direct ties.
OT:
I received a very interesting “public opinion” poll last night. It started out with approval ratings for Bush. Then proceeded into numerous questions about a possible Democratic ticket of Hillary Clinton and an un-named southern male Democrat vs. a ticket of Gore and Obama.
The only question Hillary came out a winner on was who would be the first to attack Iran!
Scarecrow such good points. What has Hillary taken a lead on? O that I am aware of.
Uh oh Condi “mushroom cloud” Rice to focus on the policies that Iran is “pursuing”. Condi’s it all depends on how you define “is” moment. So more Iran “could, would, might, is, we think, we sense, seems to be, we heard, might
be a threat” moment.
Condi going to be on Cspan 3
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs.....p;Code=CS3
CNN this a.m. reporting that I5, the major artery between LA metro area and San Diego, was now closed. For those not familiar with the area, there is very limited access between these major urban areas. The mountains and the Marine’s Camp Pendleton are off limits, so the only direct path is down Interstate 5. When it’s closed you have to drive around the mountains — hundreds of miles, so San Diego is practically cut off.
Also, along that portion of I 5 sits the San Onofre Nuclear generation station — two large units totaling over 2,000 MW — for comparison, the whole California ISO (system operator) serves a total load of about 50,000, so San Onofre is a big chunk to lose. Moreover, I’ve heard several transmission links, including one or more from Palo Verde nuclear station — a major supply hub in Arizona — are cut off, but I haven’t seen that confirmed. There is a “transmission emergency” declared for So Cal. by the ISO. The point is that we’re likely looking at wide scale electrical emergency if this keeps up — and that could affect millions of people and businesses in addition to those in the direct path of the fires. If the lights go out in urban areas, we could see security issues become the story — and they’ll need the National Guard.
How can Hillary show leadership when key members of her campaign staff are lobbyists for the telecom industry? This is the woman who believes lobbyists provide a valuable contribution to our democracy.
Elliott @ 10
Or that she did not read all the documents, or “if only I had the information then that I have now”
selise @ 17
And let’s not forget this crazy “basket warrants’ idea, which turns the whole idea of “warrants issued upon probable cause” (which by its very nature is going to be case specific) on its head.
Basket warrants would be blatantly unconstitutional
Elliott @ 9
How low can the numbers go? 11% of the American people have some faith left in congress.
Middle east policy
Rep Lantos up.
http://www.c-span.org/
Scarecrow @ 86
Um, hundreds of miles? Just take I15
Scarecrow @ 86
What National Guard? All two of ‘em?
check this out, this could wind up to be excellant poetic justice (think progress);
so here’s the what might become the poetic justice;
Iraq doesn’t have habeas protection does it…that means blackwater crimes can be prosecuted retro actively
I wonder what the president will do about THAT
Rep Ros Lehtinen up
“deny Islamic (long a) extremist a win in Iraq”
“We will be asking you about Iran’s nuclear weapons proliferation efforts”
Amazing how often this comment gets repeated by the warmongers including Ros Lehtinen
Scarecrow @ 85
Or Blackwater. I think the Guard is a little busy right now.
Scarecrow @ 86
hope i’m not being out of bounds here.
are there enough NG for the task or would this cue blackwater or others of their ilk?
Condi Rice “US will never retreat from our commitments in the middle east”
Sen. Durbin up talking about Southwick on the floor of the Senate on C-Span2. I’ve called both Rockefeller and Byrd — again — this morning to vote no on cloture. Please call your Senators on this as well, gang. Thanks much.
You can reach your Senators toll free through the numbers that katymine found:
1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437
Great minds, may.
David W. Bartoo @ 80
You know, we all have moments in our lives when we have to make a quick decision to keep quiet or speak up — and it can be something as simple as watching a colleague get unfairly berated/abused by a superviser. The easiest choice is to say nothing while it’s happening, but my experience is that you never regret speaking up, even if you have to pay a price. Sometimes just one person speaking up is enough — that’s what looseheadprop was talking about in her “Power of One” post last week — one of the links above. All of us face these moments.
looseheadprop @ 88
amen! amen!
that is why i have been ranting on and on about rep. rush holt’s bill. he’s the only one (that i know of) who has actually done the work to write a bill that addresses the issues the administration says it has with the old fisa law without immunity (either prospective or retroactive) and with protections against basket warrants.
did you see my one and only youtube? it’s a 2 min statement last week of rush holt on the house floor speaking against the “restore act” and basket warrants (and he also mentions how his efforts have been underminded by house leadership).
may @ 97
we do know the president has “the authority” to disband our government and declare hiself king in times of catastrophy, right?
this might be his cue, if he uses a natural desaster they won’t have to create one down the line
cahuenga @ 92
Ah, that’s right, been a decade since I was there; but doesn’t the newer I-15 pass through areas that are likely to be in the fire regions? Is I-15 still open?
Scarecrow, do you know if things like yesterday’s Dodd event are sent to newspapers or to selected columnists, like Froomkin or Krugman? I know they both check in here, but wonder if this is something Siun has time to do?
You may not know, but I thought I’d ask.
Whoa Rep Tom Lantos claiming that Egypt smuggling weapons into the Gaza. Lantos just said “Egypt turning the Gaza into a terrorist sanctuary”
Kathleen @ 90
Make no mistake. This is part of the Bush/Republican machine painting the Democrat majority as useless and political in the face of investigating crimes of the Bush Admin.
The big question is will the persistent expansion of illegal settlements continue? With Lantos and Ros-Lehtinen asking questions you can be sure this critical question will not be asked.
Kathleen @ 98
where are you listening? I’m lost.
looseheadprop @ 89
The public is not up to speed on FISA. They don’t know what FISA is and Bushco and its Media Arm* likes it that way. Bushco says it needs FISA gutted to pursue the GWOT. Its not true. FISA was designed as a back door in the law, whereby the government could spy on someone and get the warrant later. Bushco simply and brazenly doesn’t want the judicial system to know what it is doing.
*Media Arm is the entire MSM which is complicit in Bushco Malfeasance.
They are intentionally leaving the public in the dark on this and other important Constitutional issues.
CNN.com Breaking News
Turkish forces bomb Kurdish rebels along Iraqi border, official agency says
never mind, got it.
yuk, haven’t had to listen to her much lately with no TV, I always have a hard time believing anything she says.
Kathleen @ 105
what do people expect when we’ve created a prison for 1.5 million people without jobs, enough water or self determination?
lantos and rice make me sick. don’t know if i can listen to much of this.
Middle east hearing
Lantos saying that the timing for a middle east conference is “inappropriate”. That this is a desperate effort by the Bush administration to leave some positive mark.
Condi Rice “we may lose this window to give the moderate forces hope that statehood for Palestine is a reality”
From the post: “These are the Democratic Party’s true leaders.”
Please don’t lump Biden in that category. He’s an opportunist through and through. I think he saw what a shot in the arm Dodd’s actions gave to his campaign, that MBNA/Bank of America Joe said, “Gimme sum of that!”
Plus, all these names that have been “leading” the Dem Party my entire adult life, names like Clinton, Kerr(e)y, Gore, Biden, Feinstein, Lieberman, etc., carefully chose an issue here and there to keep just enough Liberal cred that we’ll be complacent enough with them, and keep voting them in. Just the other day Eleanor Clift trotted out the “Liberman votes with the Dem 90% of the time.” Around here at least, we know how they come up with those numbers. Biden does not deserve our support.
Personally, I won’t feel good about our politics until Feingold and Dodd are considered the “centrist” Dems that they really are. SO much has been accomplished already in reclaiming our Party just in a couple of years, and things are really heating up, as more and more infiltrators are getting exposed (think Pelosi…sad, had so much hope and support for her), that there is a lot to look forward to for our movement.
ATTACCKKKKK!!
Clinton says she “may” renounce “some” of Bush’s executive power grab. That is not a very strong statement, is it?
zennurse @ 108
Cspan 3
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs.....p;Code=CS3
GeorgeSimian @ 107
Yep. This is really important. The Republicans have lost the confidence of the voters, so their strategy is to do everything they can to make sure the Dems fail and are perceived as failures. They’re obstructing everything, and they don’t care whether that cripples government (or denies health coverage to 4,000,000 children). Our dilemma is that we are fighting with the leadership about how to respond to this Republican tactic. The dems seem to be folding; we want them to stand up and fight, and if they lose via obstruction, that’s better than losing by giving in. I have doubts every day about how to break out of this. But the better argument seems to be to assume we are at [political] war with an unprincipled, sometimes criminal enterprise, and we should not compromise with it. Unfortunately, there are innocent hostages everywhere — our troops, children, etc — and dealing with that is outside the normal political experience — hence, indecision, collaboration, compromise, etc. The US is suffering from the worst political crisis in my lifetime, a reflection of how radical the Bush regime is.
lantos blaming the i/p problems on the lack of saudi assistance.
… right. let’s make sure not to mention the geneva accords.
Middle east hearing
Condi Rice brings up the Palestinians “road map obligations”.
Still no mention about Israel’s “road map obligations”
Stop expanding the illegal settlements
Kathleen @ 120
Has she said anything at all about Turkey bombing Iraq?
GeorgeSimian @ 78
whatever wave they rode,it is long broken,leaving them beached with their pants full of sand.
legitimate sovereign power resides in congress.
they can excercise it.
they have not.
the question is why.
JF @ 111
YEEEEHAW! Let’s bomb Turkey! It’s gonna be WW5. Hot damn, perpetual war means perpetual profits!
Just ask one of the most decorated American military men of all time, Major General Smedley Butler.
selise @ 118
Blame all the neighbors blame the Palestinians for all of the problems
Lantos asking about Iran. Condi “pursuit of nuclear technology” that can lead to nuclear weapons.
Why is it that none of these folks ever bring up that Iran has every right to enrich uranium to a certain level. Why is it that they never bring up that Iran has signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty and Israel continues to refuse to sigh the treaty.
DrenchedOtter @ 120
Nope
Scarecrow @ 118
Eloquent, thank you.
and Bush has the audacity to repeatedly call our concerns “partisan”. As John Dean says, this is far “Worse than Watergate”.
Will one person be brave enough to ask about Israel’s “road map obligations”
Don’t hold your breath
Kathleen @ 95
Ileana Ros Lehtenen(R) is a hard core Bushite. She and the Diaz-Balarts are very influential components of the Bushco machine. (They are The Miami Sound Machine) They are heavyweights and supporters and designers of right wing Cuba Policy. Hardliners. The remarks from Shrub yesterday regarding Cuba (he was denouncing Raul Castro) likely originated with these nice guys and gal.
Clearly, Hillary wishes that this issue would just go away. She’ll speak volumes about her health care plan, but she would apparently eat glass rather than talk about the constitution, even though she has sald some things about it recently, obviously under pressure. Her consultants are telling her that defending the constitution is a political loser that will not please the Broderites. Democrats have no problem taking a stand on bread and butter issues like SCHIP, but when it comes to the constitution, they cave and cave. Those other issues are important, but they don’t mean a thing if you lose the constitution.
Where is the em-PHA-sis on which syl-LA-ble? Dodd is definitely getting some well deserved kudos here for being out front. He gets points for that.
But look carefully at Obama’s statements versus Clinton’s statements.
Obama’s emphasis is on telecom immunity. He objects to that. And rightly so, although it is my opinion that the mere *threat* of out-of-control lawsuits might be used productively to extract concessions from them on a variety of issues important to consumers.
Clinton, on the other hand, stresses the constitutional aspects of the FISA bill, which go right to the heart of the separation of powers, civil liberties and consitutionality. Punishing the telecoms is secondary to getting the excutive branch to abide by the law and to uphold the constitution.
Obama’s statement looks carefully tailored for us. He knows that those of us paying attention want to see the corporate telecome sued within an inch of bankruptcy. Clinton’s statement strikes me more as “Hang on a sec, I’m thinking. How do we close the loopholes without sacrificing national security?” We asked for a statement and she’s still musing over it but doesn’t trust the Bush administration and will support the filibuster unless something changes.
Which would you prefer?
Dodd-Feingold ‘08!
may @ 122
I think GeorgeSimian got to part of the answer in saying that Congress originally gave him the power, now they don’t want to admit their mistake. It’s one of the things I like about Dodd, he looks to me like someone who originally was willing to go along, started to have doubts, then came to the wrenching conclusion that he was wrong and the right thing to do is admit the mistake and change it. You can see he doesn’t look happy about the decision, but he’s a grownup and realizes you have to take your medicine. I don’t see that in the other candidates — Clinton seems to see the war as some kind of theatrical game, Biden seems to think if we just find the right “formula” we can “win”. I suspect most Democratic senators are just hoping desperately that someone else will come along and solve the problem for them.
Jane has a new thread upstairs:
To The Phones, Batman!
Fresh post from Jane…
perris @ 94
Well, he promised that as the Iraqi government stood up, we would stand down. I’m just certain that he’ll let them make their own decision here /s.
Jane has a new thread upstairs.
Middle east hearing.
Condi Rice on contractors in Iraq.
“I appointed a panel of outside experts” They came back with a “probing in depth 360 degree report”
She went on and on about how diplomats have been protected. Rice did not address the abuses what so ever. Just went on and on about the protection of diplomats and contractors.
Not one f—ing mention of the innocent Iraqi people that have been brutally mowed down by contractors. Condi has her priorities and it certainly is not the Iraqi people.
Condi going on and on about the largest US embassy in the world being built. Christ we are brutal Imperialist!
Lantos “can you give us a tentative date for opening the embassy”
I take a little objection to this fulsome praise for Dodd’s “leadership”. To put his recent admirable statements and actions in perspective, Dodd failed to “lead” on the issue of our time, to which all other issues are secondary: voting for the war.
This notion that we should expect our representatives to “lead” us and vote their consciences is quaint and patrician, and a sign of just how politically pauperized we have become. If Dodd is leading his fellow Senators this time, it’s only because he’s followed us. It was easy for him, as I suspect his stand jibes with his real principles and he has nothing to lose as a candidate.
(I say this, by the way, as someone who ponied up to his campaign)
OldCoastie @ 28
Morning, OC, morning, all! Yeah, I’m getting annoyed by some of the media stuff and there was some twit last night who tried to tell me “Oh, no, no no: the air tanks couldn’t be deployed right away b/c of the winds!” in response to a comment I made about lack of availability of equipment. Er, NO.
Really goes to show how the info outside of an area is tenuous at best…
Anyway, it’s nice and calm this morning, which is excellent. Stinky and hazy of course.
However, the I5 is shut down due to fires in Pendleton — so no traffic between OC and SD for now. Or, rather, giant traffic jams as south bound traffic north of the fire is redirected north, and vice versa. That leaves just the 15, I guess.
zennurse @ 126
Bush and his ilk’s favorite tactic is hypocracy. Blame the right wing media for being left wing. Blame the Democrats for playing politics when the DOJ is sitting on Republican investigations and overreaching on prosecutions on Democrats. Blame Congress for losing a war that Bush has screwed up for five years.
Scarecrow is right. What the public hates about politicians more than anything is when they waver on their beliefs. When Democrats scream that Bush is, for example, overreaching on FISA, and then vote to allow him to do just that, what do they expect?
Librarian @ 129
I disagree. Go back and read both Obama’s and Clinton’s statements. Obama doesn’t mention the constitutionality of the bill once. He is all about the telecoms. Hillary refers to the civil rights and liberties. From this little sample, it appears that Hillary’s focus is the constitutionality of the bill while Obama’s is telecom immunity. One is interested in treating the cause and the other the symptoms. They are *both* important but not equally so, IMHO. Of course, they are likely to flesh these positions out further but let’s fairly interpret the data we have.
People at Obama and Clinton rallies are going to become more vocal in their opposition to the lobbyists-anointed candidates’ weasel word laden speechifying, loudly demanding more straight talk and less triangulation, causing said candidates to turn to yet more Republican-styled tactics centered on the holding of town meetings for ticket holders only.
hackworth @ 128
‘Miami Sound Machine’ LOL!
alank @ 142
If you had a choice, which would you prefer:
1.) Suing the telecoms and punishing them severely. The end result of the years of litigation might be a measly check in the mail and an apology.
2.) Using the threat of a suit to extract concessions from them on net neutraility, restricting their access to newly available broadcast spectra, nininterference in municipalities offering free wireless and a host of other broadband related consumer initiatives. If they don’t comply and hand over all relevent documentation describing the extent of their involvement with the Bushies, the suits go forward.
And if you were the telecoms, looking forward to billions of dollars in settlements, which would you prefer? I’d go with the forced innovation but that’s just me. In the end, both will be painful for the companies but in scenario 2, the consumer wins while the telecoms are urged to evolve. I’m voting for whichever politician gets us item 2.
Telecom NSA = “Corpogovernment”
Bad thing!!
portia.vz @ 144 -
i might be willing to go along with you here… but only under the condition that there was no prospective immunity in the new fisa legislation. and that is not what is being proposed.
selise @ 146
If I understand you correctly, you would not rule out future suits. Under what conditions would the telecoms agree to this if they are willing to agree to concessions and turn over all relevent documentation? Would it be evidence of non-compliance? And are you saying that the concessions alone would be enough punishment so that “retroactive” immunity could go forward?
Sorry to be obtuse. I’m just trying to understand your conditions in negotiating a deal.
portia.vz @ 147
sorry i wasn’t clear.
as i understand it, the bills being considered include prospective immunity - immunity from future law breaking.
i’m willing to consider immunity from prior law breaking so long as 1) the entire truth comes out and 2) we extract a lot of consessions. 3) a committment to following the law going forward.
immunity for future lawbreaking must be taken out of the fisa bill. otherwise we don’t have #3).
is that a bit better?
Salon’s War Room take on this (the headline):
No comment.
Elliott @ 10
I keep hearing Hillary and Obama complain about Edwards and how he can say anything he wants to say because he’s not in office now and how there aren’t any consequences if he promises the moon and the stars. Which is kind of true. But if Obama and Hillary aren’t willing to do anything while in the Senate, well, in my mind at least, that’s a whole lot worse.
How about no more hedges and no more pledges from our candidates currently in the Senate? It’s a simple standard, and one that even they ought to understand.
Lab Partner @ 150
Exactly. Is Dodd not in the Senate? I understand the need to keep your options open, but Obama and HRC are simply scared shitless of taking a position on ANYTHING.
selise @ 148
Yep, sounds perfect to me.
selise @ 102
Maybe we’re seeing ANOTHER real leader in action!
Kathleen @ 114
Not long ago someone asked where the dividing line between “moderate Republicans” and “extremist Republicans” was. Now I have to ask, with regard to both Lantos & Lieberman & Feinstein and Israelis, where is the line between the “moderate Jews” and the “extremist Jews?
Despite the Jewish Democrats Liberal domestic policies, their foreign policy positions have almost always mirrored those of Israel. Can America afford to let Israel sling us around like a big club in the Middle East?
Ask America’s Jewish politicians, where do America’s interests lie? And, can they differentiate between our interests and those of Israel?
[ Note: Not all of the Jewish politicians fall into this category of behavior. Russ Feingold is obviously not the same, despite his Jewish-type name. Chuck Schumer is a question-mark to me on this issue. ]
We need to know.