(Senator Chris Dodd will be here today at 11:30 am ET/8:30 am PT to answer questions about his efforts to block retroactive telecom immunity from the upcoming FISA bill. Please join us — jh)
Reality breaks through the calling of the loons…if only for a moment:
…The American discussion about Iran has lost all connection to reality. Norman Podhoretz, the neoconservative ideologist whom Bush has consulted on this topic, has written that Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is “like Hitler … a revolutionary whose objective is to overturn the going international system and to replace it in the fullness of time with a new order dominated by Iran and ruled by the religio-political culture of Islamofascism.” For this staggering proposition Podhoretz provides not a scintilla of evidence.
Here is the reality. Iran has an economy the size of Finland’s and an annual defense budget of around $4.8 billion. It has not invaded a country since the late 18th century. The United States has a GDP that is 68 times larger and defense expenditures that are 110 times greater. Israel and every Arab country (except Syria and Iraq) are quietly or actively allied against Iran. And yet we are to believe that Tehran is about to overturn the international system and replace it with an Islamo-fascist order? What planet are we on?…
Of course, who wants a little reality when you can throw caution and common sense to the wind:
Normally, the role of government—of civilization—is to curb our sense of personal license when civilized society is under pressure from anger and fear. Government is supposed to put a brake on cynical, self-serving calculation, especially at times of great danger and confusion. Nobody knows that better than professional soldiers, who are trained to understand the laws of society and of war. But the core coterie around Bush and Cheney, who never were soldiers, pushed for war with Iraq at all costs and as an end to almost all constraints….
In the fiction of “Deliverance,” Ed’s sanity and bravery eventually save the day when he climbs out of the gorge. What I wonder is whether in the real-world crisis of Iraq there is enough sanity and bravery in Washington to deliver us from the evil that’s been created in Iraq. Unfortunately it doesn’t look that way. Whether we listen to the Republicans or the Democrats, the woman candidate for president or the men, all the major contenders remain reluctant to challenge the ersatz standards of strength set by the Bush administration. Sure, they snipe at each other, but none want to appear weak on national security. So we’re left with “Law, what law? Plan, what plan?” And we continue to float down the river as if without a paddle, unable and unwilling to climb out, with much more violence and in all probability worse humiliations yet to come.
Jeebus. I’m gonna need more coffee. Topic while I’m getting a refill: the perversion of Burkean philosophy to justify illogical lunacy that is far from “conservative” as it is traditionally defined. Discuss. Or just go read TBogg…
(Photo of a loon decoy via ndg. H/T to Froomkin for the first link, and Laura Rozen for the second.)
Related posts:
- Afghanistan: somebody’s already ‘mobilizing,’ but who’s calling the shots?
- Liz Cheney: Calling My Daddy a Torturer is Libelous
- Obama Wants a Trigger, So Keep Calling Reid
- Sunday Late Night: Who is the Commerce Secretary Calling?
- Second Iranian Nuclear Facility Discovered; Obama, Brown, Sarkozy Pledge Sanctions Unless IAEA is Allowed to Investigate






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Sept., 1939.
The Poles are coming after us. Macht nicht.
Alles ist Ordnung!
Hi, Christy -
Yesterday at the Lake was totally wonderful! Multiple thanks to you and Jane for bringing so much truth to our lives
In the Book Salon on Sunday with Bob Harris, Jane noted that she particularly liked part of Bob’s rationale for not using the word “terrorist” in Who Hates Whom. Quoting the book:
Later commenters wanted to know where the next meeting of the SCVPs can be found.
Good morning Christy!
Comparing Ahmadinejad to Hitler when you’re doing this kind of agit-prop…
George Orwell, is smiling, and saying:
“See! THAT’S what I meant about “doublethink”!”
The Secret History of the Impending War with Iran That the White House Doesn’t Want You to Know
Morning everyone. Am home with a sick Peanut this morning, so I may be a little slower answering in comments today. Just FYI…
Good morning all:)
I want to say thank-you to everyone one at the lake for all you do and also yesterday :) Having Valerie here was awesome….
Now as usual going OT :)
I don’t know if any one has read this yet, but this guy is not holding back..
America
Blackwater: the Visigoths
Special Contribution
By Gerald Ortiz y Pino
New Mexico Senator
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?u…..p?idx=5793
Hugs to Christy and the Peanut this a.m.!
Morning Noise’s Scar pushing the Chee-knee meme of how well things will work out if we just launch a few surgical strikes in Iran because look how well things are going now in Iraq. Also bullying Mika, schmoozin’ with Tinkerbelle Perino and teeing up for Limpballs. Yep, it’s a pure unadulterated RW lovefest there this a.m.
Saw a snippet of what looks to be an interesting documentary on the Sundance Channel yesterday–may be worth pups taking a look at:
“Language Does Not Lie”
tag: Nazi subversion of language as a method of thought control
or as Frank Luntz calls it, my peeps!
(((((Christy and Peanut)))))
Republicans aren’t Conservatives anymore. They sold that out when Bush came in. That’s why they can’t find a nominee that they like.
interesting – russia’s diplomatic approach to iran from an israeli perspective: Walking a nuclear tightrope
Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 400BC
I really don’t believe they fear Iran with a nuclear weapon – this is about control of the oil in the Middle East. The only thing they fear is a world without oil.
Mike Huckabee’s other moments in Murican Historee!
Diane — I think it also has a lot to do with the Saudis and their fear of a larger control for Shi’ia Islam if the Iranian influence grows, among many other issues. There is a lot in play here that never gets discussed beyond the surface level “fear, fear, fear” rhetoric.
Morning Christy. Recipe to make your Peanut feel better – hot cocoa & Frenct toast, mommy goodness.
btw, thoughts and prayers out for our CA readers whose homes are in harm’s way…
Peterr @ 3
Yep – I’m still waiting for my membership card…
jackie -
Your linky doesn’t seem to deal with blackwater. Would you mind checking it b/c what you described sounds like interesting reading.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 19
Anyone heard from OldCoastie or LooHoo? In believe they both evacuated yesterday.
jackie @ 8
Jackie, could you try that link again, I’m not having success with it, loads Very Slowly and incomplete.
Thanks.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 19
Loo Hoo is reportedly at a friend’s house but offline, and we are waiting to hear from OldCoastie.
JF @ 22
Early morning posters (or last night) said LooHoo is safe and with a friend but no access. Haven’t seen anything about OldCoastie.
JF @ 22
Yes, for Loo Hoo: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..nt-1051483
egregious @ 24
Thanks, egregious. I was wondering about them while watching the news last night.
Waccamaw,
Sorry about the linky thingy. It won’t let me send the right link, so the article is on the front page of The Seoul Times. It’s called ‘Blackwater: the Visigoths’
Good morning Christy and all…Though some would like us to believe we have no paddle our forefathers left us a guide, a paddle, called the constitution.And like a paddle which can be a rudder ,a force for change or a weapon to defeat those who would deny any of our freedoms those who wrote the constitution did so to warn future generations of the boundries those with a lust for power would set out to eliminate or destroy.
Saturday will be our chance to show we mean no .I’ve put in over twenty hours to move things forward,took over $150. out of pocket and I’m ready to march- are you while we are still allowed?
Thanks, jackie -
Will try hte google. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 7
Hugs for the Peanut. Hope you have plenty of whatever she finds comfort in.
Hope Peanut feels better soon Christy.
egregious @ 24
One of the things that I think is truly great about the internet and places like FDL is that very few of us have met one another, but we do share and talk often and have developed this relationship with one another. And somehow, we care about our friends from so far away, who many times do not agree with us all the time, but who are special to us nonetheless.
g’ morning all…. coffee is ready – hold out your cups (warning – it is extra strong today)
still standing this morning… LooHoo was evacuated yesterday but I am not. The Santiago fire is still burning pretty well but the winds have settled down to a simple roar now…
we are tired but OK.
Toby Wollin @ 33
Well said. There is something comforting about this place.
Toby at 31 — Well, that would be lap time and Disney movies, and I have both in abundance. I’m just thrilled she’s not barfing continuously this morning like she was yesterday…
OC at 34 — SO glad you all are okay. :)
Re: Jackie above. I tried to link it, but got the same bad connection. Click on “America” on the left side of the page.
Gerald Ortiz y Pino is my state Senator. He is really great. He sponsored the impeachment resolution in Santa Fe last session.
OldCoastie! We were concerned for you.
Attaturk @ 16
where are Hukabee’s two sons and his wife
is it true they are at a fat farm? He has made it impossible for them to appear in public
OldCoastie @ 34
OC — woohoo!!!!!
So good to hear from you.
wigwam — If you are going to go and quote something that has been used for strategic thought for centuries like Sun Tzu, you are going to confuse the wingnuttiest among us… *g*
OldCoastie @ 34
Great to hear from you, OC! Stay safe.
tjb @ 29
bless you and thank you for your good work.
thanks all – it’s been a long 24 hours… hopefully they will get a grip soon, but that is very weather dependent and so far, no real help on that aspect.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 36
Yep, a small child with an “ooky” tummy is definitely not a fun time for Mommy or Peanut. Back in the old days (before we thought about such things), my mom and dad used to “doctor” me up when I was sick with either Paragoric (heh – we will not discuss the use of controlled substances on family members by medical professionals)or very weak and milked-up coffee. I seem to have survived, but I always wonder….
“Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.” Dwight D. Eisenhower
Our “neoconservatives” are neither new nor conservative, but old as Babylon and evil as Hell.” Edward Abbey
JF @ 22
Old Coastie was around for a bit during the “Monica vs the Madame” thread last night.
OldCoastie @ 45
And back this morning! Hope things are going as well as can be expected.
Thanks for the date specific on the Sun Tzu quote. I’m currently rereading Karen Armstrong’s “The Axial Age”. I hadn’t clicked that he was also one of the sages of the period. It is somewhat disheartening to realize that over 2500 years ago people had already figured out war, enlightenment, and what is required for good living, but we still can’t get it right.
Republicans are racist (anti-gay, anti-Hispanic, anti-AfricanAmerican, fiscally irresponsible liars. I find it hard to believe that anyone believes that their policies have any credibility left. But some do.
Bush may not have been an actual soldier, but he pretends to be one like no one else.
Toby Wollin @ 46
Ginger-ale or 7-Up were usually the first items to stay down followed by chicken noodle soup. Still effective today.
via this dkos diary (on the coming pr campaign to tell us what a wonderful job congress is doing) from bruce fein at slate:
my bold.
is this true?
Does anybody know what just happened to C-SPAN Washington Journal? Flynt Leverett was railing on Bushco’s refusal to use diplomacy with Iran and it was cut off. Now we have a video of John Roberts speech from Sept.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 17
Christy, to ease their fears, I would prefer Bush take the sheiks for another walk hand in hand through the Texas Bluebells.
KinMO @ 55
You’re only imagining you saw Leverett on C-SPAN. We’ve always been at war with Persia…
Ed*ard Teller @ 57
Nuts!!!!
Diane @ 56
I read that as “Texas Blueballs”
GeorgeSimian @ 51
Perhaps people vote for them simply out of spite: http://www.nypress.com/print.cfm?content_id=10369
dakine01 @ 53
a tea made by steeping cut up pieces of candied ginger in hot water is soothing to the tummy – and it’s even good for sore thoats. had it recommened to me by one of my docs, apparently ginger is a natural anti-inflamatory.
selise at 54 — I haven’t heard that, but then I’m not exactly hanging out at Beltway cocktail parties collecting chatter either. *g*
hey ET – how’s the live blogging going?
now one of the president’s generals tells us ordered torture personally
certainly a must read;
“some who were not even suspected”…can you believe this? (don’t answer that question, it’s rhetorical)
i’ve always wondered, what percent of the right wingers do you think are truly flipped out true believers, and what percent are actually just intellectual dishonest manipulators?
my guess? 20 percent morons (true believers), the rest intentional liars.
OldCoastie @ 45
Good morning from L.A. Glad you’re ok, OldCoastie. Hang in there.
We’ve now really got a full house here in Santa Monica- daughter, her bf & their three dogs evac’d from Piru area, then close friends from Del Mar got voluntary evac notice & landed here during the night. That makes a total of nine people, eight dogs, & four cats.
As I noted last night we’ve got a big house & yard so no prob, just glad they’re all safe & love them all…
Hold good thoughts for those firefighters out there doing a tough, exhausting, & dangerous job…
selise @ 61
As someone who has suffered all my life from motion sickness, a few years ago my sister gave me a short blurb from Travel & Leisure magazine about using ginger root capsules to help counteract the motion sickness so it seems your doc told you true.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 62
we can tell – it’s clear from your writing that you haven’t been ODing on cocktail weenies. *g*
well, here’s hoping it’s just a nasty rumor… although bruce fein doesn’t strike me as the rumor mongering type (which is why i even thought to repeat it).
I believe C-SPAN just censored Flynt Leverett. Is this common practice?
Wonder how many SoCal firefighters are in Iraq.
selise @ 63
Hi, egregious. Check out this article about Diane Benson, published yesterday in Indian Country Today. She’s hoping to meet you on November 5, 6 or 7, if you’re in the DC area then.
I’m learning a lot, covering the Vic Kohring GOP oil corruption trial. I’ll miss the end of jury questions this morning. I’ll be teaching class at UAA. But I hope to be there for opening arguments at 1:30 this afternoon – between classes and rehearsals.
I will shamelessly flog my “Iran Existential Threat” graph that I made about six weeks ago, which graphically shows the relative power of Iran and the US. The visual conclusion is inescapable: there’s just not an existential threat.
You think we should save Iran?
btw – burns was on last night too – it is quite amazing we are hearing from just about everyone as power transmission lines are burning up right and left and a lot of phone service is down.
so far, so good in my neighborhood.
dakine01 @ 67
yeah, i think it’s really true.
my grandma used to give me a piece of candied ginger for a stomach ache. and last winter i had a wicked sore throat (worse case of strep i’ve ever had) and my doc recommened the tea. helped more than anything else i tried.
As long as we let them get away with calling them conservatives, when they are anything but, they will win the rhetorical wars and framing-battles.
Today’s NY Times has a trifecta of Iraq stories on the front of the site. Including some Iran related.
Report assails State Dept on Iraq security Dyn Corp and not Blackwater this time.
Iraq says it will cooperate with turkey on Kurds
In Iraq, Conflict simmers on a 2nd Kurdish front
But other than that things are just ducky over there quack quack.
KinMO @ 69
wow. i will check the archive when it goes up.
selise @ 54
I hope Conyers calls her bluff. I’m not sure what Nancy Eleven-Percent is trying to accomplish, but Ray Duray has an interesting theory: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..nt-1049028
KinMO @ 55
He is talking about the 1st amendment no less!
ET,
Thanks for the article and for your leadership in her campaign. You Alaska progressives are making some serious inroads, it’s inspiring!
Yes I will be here and look forward to meeting the future Rep. Diane Benson.
dakine01 @ 77
Turkey rejects cease-fire by rebel Kurds
I understand the danger of frivilous talk of nuclear weapons and nuclear war. The more you chat about the unthinkable, the less unthinkable it becomes. However, I think we should notice that Isreal has nuclear weapons and Iran does not. Israel is not shy about preemptive action when it believes there is an existential threat. In the worst case, if Isreal acted preemtively with nuclear weapons, it would not be in any nation’s interest to retaliate against Isreal.
Given this situation, I don’t understand how even the most agressive neocon can logically argue that the United States needs to take some sort of preemptive action.
What could make the situation dangerous is continued talk and increasing alignment of nations on one side or the other. Ultimately, we could have another pre-WWI deck of cards.
Symbian @ 73
No, we believe we should save the United States from doing something incredibly stupid like attacking Iran and creating even more death and destruction for our troops and the world when things are already stretched beyond the breaking point.
During Cheney’s weekend speech, he used the term “it’s obvious” several times, referring to Iran’s alleged intentions to acquire nuclear technology, attack Israel, and achieve domination of the universe. The use of phrases like “it’s obvious” is a signal that they don’t have adequate evidence to support their claims.
No, Dick, it’s not “obvious”. Show us the evidence. And remember, when you tried to do that with Colin Powell at the UN, you fudged, cheated and lied. So the bar has been raised. A lot.
My grandmother’s home remedy for upset stomach – Coke syrup.
Symbian — You read all of the above and what you got was “save Iran?” Good lord. How about “stop the US from making more disastrous long-term ill-informed foreign policy and national security decisions?”
Professor Foland @ 72
twice the oil?
’scuze me while i attempt a rapid paradim shift in order to accomodate reality into my world view.
Yo Troops I’m back. A minor landslide took out the power to the jobsite, and every other job we have is outdoors. Rain is lovely when yer home and dry.
Glad LooHoo and OC are ok.
And, the Dickey piece was good, but let me say that the depiction of mountain folk (me being one of them) in Deliverance is, well, unfortunate. You have no idea the shock it caused some of the folks here. And that its the only movie made about these here parts that’s reached a mainstream audience is more depressing than I can say.
And as a gay guy, I’m bloody sick of ’squeal piggy’ jokes.
You really have to work to get on most mountain folks bad side, a few bad apples aside.
Chris Dickey’s point, that the whole rhetoric of manliness and power that undergirds the fantasies of the ChickenHawks, and the desire to assert a Nietzschian grasp of power, cloaked in patriotism and piety, is insane, is well taken.
dakine01 @ 53
True, very true. But my parents tended toward the nuclear option.
If “saving Iran” means no invasion, no bombing?
Uh. Then, Yes. By all means.
nomolos @ 80
Looking at C-SPAN’s schedule for today, it appears that the Roberts speech was scheduled to start at 9:10. If the host of WJ wasn’t on the ball to wrap things up to go to that speech, it could look like Leverett was cut off. Sometimes sloppy journalism can look like censorship.
I didn’t see it, so check the tape when it comes up. Just another thought.
egregious @ 81
She’s in Fairbanks this week for the AFN convention. I’ll let her know that today. Back to you on this by e-mail.
The most interesting thing I’ve learned, covering former Rep. Kohring’s trial, is that his attorney, John Henry Browne, was the first attorney in Washington State to push back on the false convictions of almost 60 people in the Wenatchee sex ring scandal of the mid-90s.
Excellent point. I find myself, when writing a legal brief, I say “clearly” when it’s anything but and have to go back and delete the “clearly.”
Did anyone see the Hardball Iran “debate” last night?
It was one of those “guy who wants to bomb Iran immediately versus a guy who wants to bomb Iran soon” debates. Unreal.
So I guess it’s a given that we will bomb Iran cuz the madmen in charge — and their Israeli/AIPAC handlers — want them to.
Mr. Bill at 89 — I live in WV. What part of the “mountain folks” thing did you think I didn’t understand? *g*
dakine01 @ 84
Perhaps we should guarantee Iran’s right to exist. They, after all, are the ones in the nuclear crosshairs.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 94
Christy, I’m sure you understand mountain folks.
As much as anyone does.
Toby Wollin @ 90
My uncle was an MD, so mine tended to save the nuke option for after failure of the first round of attacks.
Mr. Bill at 96 — Sometime, I’ll have to tell you some stories about my Uncle Orville…
wigwam @ 79
as far as i can tell, ray’s hypothesis is supported by the available evidence.
keep hoping to see some contradictory evidence… but it’s not happening. :(
And Deliverance was filmed on the Chattooga River over in Rabun Co., and is thought to reference the damming of the Coosawatee River (just 15 or so miles down the road from where I type) so it hit closer to home, so to speak.
Jesus Effing Christ. If I was a conservative, I wouldn’t spend a lot of time talking about Hitler, preemptive war, war for resources for a restive nation (be those resources oil or Lebensraum), seizing political power through *technically* legal means, killing millions of people, blackmailing one’s political opponents with the fear of death, good and evil, torturing and killing inconvenient enemies/other people, and using rhetoric that ranges from the nationalistic to the authoritarian (no, really, Department of Homeland Security?).
Actually, that is, I’m assuming that if I was a conservative, I would *not* want to be compared to anyone using those words and actions.
Maybe they do. God knows they’re certainly trying hard enough to work their way through the fucking checklist…
Peterr: I’m in Kansas City, WJ ends at 9:00 they cut him off at 8:35 right in the middle of his sentence. I think I may be getting paranoid but they usually go all the way to 9:00.
wigwam @ 14
Sun would not look upon what we’re doing in Iraq as ‘war’. He would see it for what it really is.
selise @ 99
Ray’s theory almost exactly correlates with Glenn Greenwald’s theory about DiFi: http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..9/23/4035/
Christy Hardin Smith @ 98
Well, I’ve worked for a couple of small town papers around here, and seem a lot of damnable things. But, as I told a producer for an Atlanta news show, who asked “but aren’t these hills more violent than a lot of places?” (this during the period when ATL was the US ‘Murder Capital’) “well, it’s not random violence. If they kill you, they believe they have a good reason.”
KinMO — Was he doing the interview via remote? Most likely they lost the satellite link-up. If he was getting close to his time being over at that point, sometimes the link-up just shuts off and there is nothing the network can do about it if there is a subsequent feed scheduled and they need the link-up. I have had to deal with time constraints when I’ve done a link-up interview in the past…it’s part of the gig, knowing how to time your answers at the end.
I’m sure Condi will tone down the rhetoric and rein in Cheney and his minions.
Once she figures out how to use her phone.
wigwam @ 104
yes. will have to ask teddy about this.. he, i think, will have the detailed background knowledge to put the possibilities into context.
… gotta go get set up for the hjc hearing in 10 mins… back later.
kdh22 @ 104
tzu had the forsight to predict some would call what we are doing a war
his answer suits perfectly, the results to which he predicted some 2600 years ago
From today’s WaPo0:
FFFH seems to agree that all the Senators should have access to the Telco information, not just those that agree with Bush.
and the Hacktacular one devotes the first third of Media Notes to Colbert’s “candidacy.”
kdh22 @ 103: Nobody in Sun Tzu’s time was dumb, crazy, or suicidal enough to lead his own people into a war of attrition against themselves, that’s all. The fact that that’s what Bush and Cheney are doing suggests that they either qualify as some combination of the above (by which I mean that they’re acting that way on “behalf” of the nation), or that they’re doing something else, possibly for someone else.
Matt Yglesias had a half-tongue-in-cheek column a while back (2004?) suggesting that based on the available evidence, Bush was an Iranian mole. It gets less implausible as time goes on, disturbingly enough…
MR. Bill @ 101
Whatcha doin Mr Bill, get rained out?
Saw CSpan censor a few years ago. An author was saying the number of troop deaths in Iraq a lot higher than govt. was saying.Then it was like a curtain came down…somebody campaigning in S.C. for prez. waaay before election. Totally inane and insane.I find that cspan censors speakers and callers now in general.
ET,
I forwarded that excellent article on to Howie. Hoping we can include Diane as part of Blue Am.
I think she has a real shot at taking down this wounded incumbent as it becomes clear Don Young is part of the Abramoff scandal.
Mr. Bill — I think we are talking past each other. Deliverance was a work of fiction, and nothing like any of the mountain folks that I know (or am related to, for that matter). But there is a distinct culture among the hills and hollers that seems almost alien to folks who are from outside it. Deliverance was a sort of horror film about the unknown, as I recall it (it’s been years since I’ve seen it and I’m not really inclined to watch it again, frankly), and like all horror films, there was a lot of exaggeration that should be taken as fictional license and not as fact. If people can’t see that about the film, then they aren’t going to see it about reality either, in my opinion. Have had to deal with enough WV jokes and ignorance in my day to know that some people just want to see the exaggeration.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 107
He was sitting at the desk with the host. It was probably a technical glitch or some other reasonable thing but lately I get nervous when this stuff happens during a scathing revelation of Bushco lies.
Oh, and this is my favorite story from the article:
OT- Is the Southwick vote going to be today?
“…all the major contenders remain reluctant to challenge the ersatz standards of strength set by the Bush administration.”
Good morning, all. So my question is, why do the Congressional Democrats want the Republicans to protect us from the verry scarry Iranoislamofascistterrorists?
But in all seriousness, how does one tease out the chest-beating rhetoric from actual signals of intention to bomb. Who are Bush/Cheney talking to? Congress, the Iranians, the U.S. public, bin Laden? Who?
KinMO at 116 — I know some of the producers at Washington Journal just from having done an interview or two there, and they are good folks who take their jobs very seriously. I have to say, in all honesty, that it was most likely a glitch. Most of their hosts are quite nice and dedicated as well, in my experience, anyway. Just my two cents…
Chris @ 111
Yeah, Sun Tzu would view the ‘military expertise’ of this ‘endeavor’ as anything but.
Power out on jobsite Raven (rain caused land slip took out power poles), and I can indulge myself.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 115
I actually quite agree. It’s just that some folk took it personally. I’ve had difficulty with the hillbilly stereotype, when I was in my art career. My daughter (currently writing a paper on Tristam Shandy, found herself in a weird class debate on what ‘mountain culture’ is. (This is a purple haired anime fan with a taste for japanese cooking). It’s the assumption of this work of fiction as reality (I mean, how many movie goers are unable to tell the actor from their roles?) that I’ve run into that is dismaying. And then there are the folks here who dumb down and try to act like, well, rednecks (Larry the Cable guy, I’m lookin’ at you.)
Thank you Christy, I love the show and watch it everyday. I just hope they aren’t being strong-armed. It’s nice to have a sober head here to help me stay on the ground. Thanks again.
A certain pResident also comes to mind, although he doesn’t have too far to stretch on the dumb-down.
Fresh thread, up and running for everyone…
New thread.
Mods: I need another cup of coffee. I spelled Christy’s name wrong and used the incorrect “here” at @124. Sorry everybody!! I’m leaving now, need some fresh air.
Chris @ 112
In December of 1990, during the run-up to Desert Storm, I was told that the CIA and State Dept. were doing an analysis of what would happen if we toppled Sadam. By mid-January 1991, I was told that they had concluded that it would not be a good idea and pretty much told what would happen. Dick Cheney issued some statements along that line in 1992 and 1994. And in 1998, the first President Bush and Brent Scowcroft wrote: “Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different–and perhaps barren–outcome.”
OT – updated google map of CA fires
wigwam @ 129: Yep. That was back when the GOP saw perpetual war/occupation as a *bad* thing…
Tanbark @ 5
Yeah. It’s beyond hypocrisy, since because they’re the Elect, the rules they make for others (such as Godwin’s Law) don’t apply to them.
Some people believe that the war in Iraq kept terrorists from attacking us and that Bush by being aggressive (i.e. Afghanistan) protects us from harm. I believe the Bin Laden family, long connected with the Bush family, told Osama to lay off while Bush is in office. Should Hillary et al be elected, that most likely will change.
The idea we can protect ourselves from the individual who straps on an explosive vest and sets him or herself off is a fantasy. Hitting Iran feeds the fantasy that everything can be controlled.
Allan-in-upstate:
“I’m sure Condi will tone down the rhetoric and rein in Cheyney and his minions.”
Can she do that while she’s busy underneath Recep Erdogan’s desk?
Did I mention to look for a city near you.(first link try)
oct27.org
GeorgeSimian @ 12
The only sensible possibilities for them to do is stay home and not vote, vote for the anti-war Ron Paul or switch parties and vote for John Edwards.
If they don’t wipe out this Neocon vermin in their party, then they are doomed forever. They get one chance.
John Edwards — Best Vermin-Killer the Dems are offering this year!
selise @ 54
Wow! Well, if that’s true, I guess it answers the question of how committed she is to her position.
egregious @ 115
Fantastic!
Now, add a touch of American Dream idealism and how we have to protect ourselves and our political system from criminals like him.
Push the discussion towards a higher ideal!