.
A mistrial was declared in Dallas yesterday in the Government’s “flagship” terrorism financing prosecution of a Muslim charity. With 197 counts to choose from and after two months of trial and 19 days of deliberation, there were no convictions on any of the counts for the five alleged leaders of the organization.
The case, involving the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development and five of its backers, is the government’s largest and most complex legal effort to shut down what it contends is American financing for terrorist organizations in the Middle East.
President Bush froze the groups’ assets in 2001. He claimed they were a pipeline to Hamas. The indictment, however, didn’t charge the group with financing terror efforts.
Instead, the prosecution said, the foundation supported terrorism by sending more than $12 million to charitable groups, known as zakat committees, which build hospitals and feed the poor.
Prosecutors said the committees were controlled by Hamas and contributed to terrorism by helping Hamas spread its ideology and recruit supporters. The government relied on Israeli intelligence agents, using pseudonyms, to testify in support of this theory.
The jury was having none of it.
In the verdict, the jury said it failed to reach a decision on any of the charges against the charity and two of its main organizers, but acquitted three defendants on almost all counts.
The Government intends to retry the case. Perhaps it should first listen to some of the jurors:
Juror William Neal, 33, who said his father worked in military intelligence, said that the government’s case had “so many gaps” that he regarded the prosecution as “a waste of time.”
What went wrong with the Government’s case?
David D. Cole, a professor of constitutional law at Georgetown University, said the jury’s verdict called into question the government’s tactics in freezing the assets of charities using secret evidence that the charities cannot see, much less rebut. When, at trial, prosecutors “have to put their evidence on the table, they can’t convict anyone of anything,” he said. “It suggests the government is really pushing beyond where the law justifies them going.”
If there was a scintilla of evidence those contributions helped finance a suicide bombing or other terrorist activity, the Government would have provided it. It didn’t because it didn’t exist. Instead, they prosecuted organizations based on their beliefs and associations.
Secret evidence has become a hallmark of the Bush Administration. Foreign nationals are whisked off on Ghost Air to other parts of the world where they are held in secret and subjected to interrogation practices so severe, like waterboarding, that even Attorney General Nominee Mike Mukasey tumbled over his words as he struggled for legal platitudes to distinguish it as an acceptable technique that did not amount to torture.
I’ll admit I’m not the one to sing the Justice Department’s praises, even on a good day. (You’ve all got Jane, Christy, Marcy and Looseheadprop to do that far better than I can.) But at least the Justice Department used to stand up for civil rights and the constitutional principles on which this country was founded. Now, it’s just another shill for the fear-mongerers. Be afraid of the big, bad terror financiers who collect charitable contributions to send to the poor and needy in their homelands.
As for Mukasey, he undoubtedly realizes he’s now jumped to the dark side where the Government conducts both enemy combatant hearings and trials before military tribunal commissions using evidence that has been withheld from the detainees and their lawyers. Where federal defendants in terror trials are prohibited from learning whether the evidence used to prosecute them was obtained by warrantless NSA surveillance.
Once Mukasey refused to say that waterboarding is torture, he lost his way home. I can just picture him leaving the confirmation hearing. He’s got a piece of the waterboard stuck on the sole of his shoe, like you know what, and no matter how many times he tries to scrape it off, it’s still there. The piece won’t leave Muckasey. It’s there to remind him that he’s one of them now. He’s solid with the Administration’s refusal to promise to discontinue waterboarding. Mukasey has no more robes to hide behind as he did in New York as a federal judge. He’s in too deep now. Once he’s confirmed, Mukasey will be front and center at DOJ public hearings and meetings, justifying the Bush party line and policies so many Americans find abhorrent.
Outside the courtroom, things will be no easier for Mukasey. He’ll be meeting with a frustrated Congress through the wall of secrecy the Bush Administration erected when it refused to turn subpoenaed documents over to Congress. Documents that relate to the U.S. Attorney firings, the missing RNC e-mails and voter suppression. Mukasey is stepping into the Lion’s den and by all appearances, seems to accept his fate. I have an uneasy feeling that my future posts about Mukasey will be accompanied by a graphic showing him tethered to a ball and chain.
So if you’re thinking that cooler heads will prevail at the Department of Justice once Mukasey is installed and the Holy Land case may be laid to bed where it belongs, don’t get your hopes up. It’s looking to me like we have another case of “Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss” on our hands.
Related posts:
- Fort Hood Shooter’s Trial May Shed Light on NSA/CIA Domestic Spying
- Yoo’s Nightmare: A Trial Showing Torture was Unnecessary
- On PDB Day, a New Direction against Terrorism? John Brennan’s Coming Out Party?
- Consumer Protection Agency Approved by House Committee; Auto Dealer Financing Exempt
- Buy Beauty Products? You Might Be a Terrorism Suspect





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zip?
zip?
Two zips cancel each other out. I am down to 11 now :-(
(((DODD!)))
What a great day here at the lake.
Hi Jeralyn!
missed Dodd. drat
TJ @ 5
yesterday Val Plame, Joe Wilson, and a host of luminaries; today Chris Dodd. FDL be stylin’ ….
Welcome Jeralyn!
it all goes to habeas corpus
how the hell can a person ever defend against claims they don’t know about?
they can never challenge the validity of the claim and any oponent can make up whatever they want to eliminate their competititon
and any over zealous official could make up any evidence they wanted.
what has this country become?
behindthefall @ 7
You can catch him again. Just refresh the screen of the post and video will replay.
Thanks very much Jeralyn.
Only if you care to reply, any chance the defendants can go after the government for prosecutorial misconduct, as happened to Mike Nifong?
ps, I missed the live feed downstairs and hope someone posts the conferance
[edit] video is posted downstairs already
…..the government’s case had “so many gaps” that he regarded the prosecution as “a waste of time.”
this will be the epitaph of fuckwad’s presidency:
“….a waste of time.”
Sorry OT: the shuttle has successfully taken off and is in orbit.
perris @ 13
The replay is up if you go back to that page.
Jeralyn,
What do you consider your biggest concern right now?
WRT Mukasey
I wonder if Schumer knows he’s been played and displayed?
Thanks for this article, Jeralyn. The outcome of this trial is far more important than many understand.
If there was a scintilla of evidence those contributions helped finance a suicide bombing or other terrorist activity, the Government would have provided it. It didn’t because it didn’t exist. Instead, they prosecuted organizations based on their beliefs and associations…..
…..based on the testimony of anonymous foreigners, whose names nobody will ever know. Sadly, though, these foreign agents now know the names of the jurors. It might be interesting to follow the lives of those courageous jurors over the next couple of years, to see how they and their families fare.
Hello, Jeralyn. What should Senators who oppose Mukasey’s views on the President’s infinite detention and wiretapping authority do? Is there any talk of a hold on his nomination from anyone?
If this trial presages the results of BushCheneyCo’s big Gitmo show trials set for election year, I wonder if the American people will catch on that secret evidence, secret trials, and secret detention aren’t only wrong — they also don’t work.
Thanks for this report!
This is my scandals list entry on Mukasey. It’s not just torture.
Biodun @ 11
And you can also view his remarks directly on ustream.tv by following this link.
And this is why they can’t confirm him.
The op-ed in today’s NYT calling for him to retract his testimony is absurd. He can’t uncommit to torture and ignoring the law. Retracting his testimony would just add perjury to the list of laws he is willing to violate on the president’s behalf.
What I cannot understand is how so many Senators will allow this evil to stand. Maybe Dodd can give us some insight.
Excellent news, what is sad is that the 24% won’t even recognize the importance of this in terms of refuting their disillusionment.
thanks for this post.
Want to remind folks that Valerie Plame Wilson is on Fresh Air today, replayed repeatedly and accessible here:
http://www.publicradiofan.com/
or here at 1pm EST
http://www.wbur.org/
I’ve lost track – other than the Padilla farce, what is the government’s record on so-called “terrorism” trials?
197 different charges, 19 days of deliberations and the final words?
Suck It, Bush.
Priceless.
Hugh @ 21
Thanks Hugh. That’s an excellent entry on your list.
Well, if these are real terror financiers, I wish our government had convicted them. I wonder how many real terror financiers have been emboldened by this failure on DoJ’s part? Isn’t emboldening the terrorists prosecutable itself?
Thanks Hugh for the Mukasey background. Lot of troubling information there.
Are you working with a publisher yet? You have enough material for a book. Jane moved Marcy from concept to publication in less than a year. Think about it.
Jeralyn – Thank you for focusing attention on these groups. I find myself more and more supporting very small humanitarian groups that seem to be under the radar. Once your name surfaces, you’re on the CIA, NSA, Pentagon, FBI hit list.
The government certainly hasn’t stopped me from supporting organizations who bring badly needed humanitarian needs to war torn areas. But, it has made it much more difficult. I know I am not supporting any “enemy” groups. Many of us focus on non-violent solutions and humanitarian aid.
With so few people as the militants in a country and most of the population consisting of civilians, women, children and elderly, it makes sense to me to ease the suffering of the most vulnerable rather punish them for living in a particular country.
Have you noticed how often the word “enemy” is used by our government and their advisors? Perhaps they should do some soul searching as to why they have so many enemies.
Hugh @ 21:
That list is coming on nicely. Very impressive indeed. I hadn’t visited it in a while. Kudos to you!
Sorry for the OT, but Bush is racheting up the Iran talk, again:
Read this story of an innocent man tortured linked to at Matthew Yglesias:
http://www.psychsound.com/2007…..r_how.html
Yes, Hugh:
What egregious said @ 29. Get yourself an agent first. I’m sure you’ll get takers in NYC from publishers.
I am utterly disgusted with Stark and have not felt this disheartened in a year.
No wonder we are shredding the Constitution and letting Bush head us into war.
Appalling.
Same song..different verse..this is sickening…We only know a small fraction of the crimes committed by the Republicans.
(snip)
(snip)
link
This was an Israeli hit that didn’t work. Maybe the FBI should disregard all the Israeli bullshit they receive. These guys may have been funding Hamas social programs–so what? Meanwhile, hundreds of US citizens serve in the Israeli Occupation Forces, commit terrorism, and there’s no repercussions whatsoever. In fact, there’s a special exemption carved out for Israel. Normally, if you serve in a foreign armed service, you lose your citizenship. But not in the case of the National Zionist supremacist state!
‘Hugh’s List’ is a critically important document of our times. Hugh, get thee to the publisher.
JF @ 32
Doris Lessing interview:
Democracy Now covers the mistrial today.
JF @ 32
‘intelligence ESTIMATES’ — He might not have to accept ‘estimates’ if he’d made d**ned sure that Mrs. Wilson and her network were able to give him the hard facts, instead of getting her outed!!!!! (For all Mrs. Wilson’s assurances that she was just collateral damage in an attempt to snipe at her husband, it seems morese every day that somebody did not *want* to have good intelligence on Iran available right about now. Kind of like a ricochet going through a keyhole and knocking down a rhino: some accident!)
I sort of liveblogged Michael Hayden’s (head of the CIA) appearance on Charlie Rose last night (in the first late night). I am not sure but this may be the first of 2 parts. Basically, Hayden was saying that he wanted the ability to detain and interrogate terrorist suspects outside the purview of the law. Only when their “intelligence” value was gone would he get rid of them by dumping them into the legal system, i.e. Guantanamo. He sought to minimize the issues of torture (we don’t do it) and rendition (we don’t do it often). Hayden ridiculed the Army Manual and defined advanced interrogation techniques as those that existed between the Army Manual and the limits of the law. That limit was the one used in the Bradbury OLC opinion: conduct which “shocks the conscience”. As I noted at the time this depends on how easily shocked Hayden is and on the dubious notion that he has a conscience. Hayden can then assert that the US doesn’t render people to countries that commit torture since he has just about defined torture out of existence. The upshot of all this is that Hayden espouses essentially the same old policy of the Bush Administration on torture, detainment, and rendition. Only some of the PR has changed. Oh yes, Hayden also said that torture works even though he, of course, doesn’t do it.
zennurse @ 35
I wouldn’t be too hard on Pete. He most likely would not have issued the apology if he hadn’t been under intense pressure from the Dem “leadership”(and yes, I think the scare quote are appropriate here).
Whitehouse’s questioning of Mukasey on waterboarding was good, very good. If he gets it on torture, why did he make such a seemingly boneheaded move on FISA? I’d still very much like to know the answer.
I know this is not the way things are done, but it would have been something to see if Whitehouse had a team of waterboarders come into the confirmation room, set up their gear, and offer Mukasey the opportunity to experience it for himself. We’re doing waterboarding, and the AG plays a pivotal role in keeping that operation going, so I would say it’s rather important that he has enough information to decide whether it’s torture or not.
But I guess knowing enough facts to make a decision one way or another would be an absolute disqualification for an appointment in the Bush administration. Ah well.
Jeralyn, You hit the nail on the head with this line
In earlier posts I expressed my fear tha Mukasey woulf get “played” by Bushco b/c he would delude himself that they would never dare try to pull any shit on him and that they had learned their lesson.
It never dawned on me that he would just cave in like that. It is so contrary to his prior reputaion.
Keith Olbermann had it right. Mukasey got off to what seemd like a good start on the first day, but on day 2 seemed to reverse himself and by day 3 was just circling the drain in terms of showing any independance from the WH.
KO had a clip of Pat Leahy asking Mukasey of anyone from the WH had leaned on him during the overnight break.
QuakerGirl @ 38
Bush is a member of a family and a class that IS profiting from war.
Nuri Al Maliki is going to try to shutdown the PKK in Iraq. What can possibly go wrong?
Hugh @ 41
The scum has risen . . .
Went back and watched the whole Dodd video. As several other people remarked, what a wonderful format. Many thanks to Jane and everyone who made that happen. It was more informative about Dodd and his stands and his personality than any number of staged “debates” or NYT “balanced” articles.
Thanks for the support everyone. I have no idea whatsoever about acquiring an agent, but glad you find the list useful.
OT–Apologies, but this is just too inane:
Helpless Dancer @ 42
What cajolery have the ‘leadership’?
It must be threat, for it is not reason.
Hugh, I think the Higazy case (and the coverup, getting the documentation of the FBI’s threat of torture to Higazy’s family sealed from the official opinion) needs to be #268 on your list.
Badwater @ 45
Is is right. For that author to sugar coat it thus is dishonest. Not only a member of a class, Dubya is a direct member of a family with a long and verifiable history of war profiteering.
I’m a dumbass. I missed it.
And he didn’t answer the question I would have asked–What are these people thinking?
Does anyone have any idea? What is Arlen Specter thinking? What in hell is, say, Chuck Schumer thinking? These are fundamental, simple principles.
Helpless Dancer @ 43
Stark said I’ll just go back to being insignificant now. If that doesn’t just say it all, I don’t know what does.
it’s just breathtaking to me.
Hugh @ 49
You can start here. (These are the big ones. I’m positive one of them will bite. You can email me later if you need some more. I used to be on staff in the publishing industry. I’m freelancing now.)
Hugh @ 21
seems like he’s promised not to use the doj to selectively go after dem politicians…. is that all?
zennurse @ 56
At least that stupid censure motion went down to defeat. Sadder thing is that Pelosi is a doormat for the Rethuglicans. How do you ever let that censure motion hit the floor? Is she now Broder’s best friend?
Hugh:
Correx to my 56. I linked to the wrong list. Those agents handle mostly fiction.
This one is much better.
Biodun @ 50
I dunno. It has something that reminds me of the eloquence of the current occupant of the White House.
Thanks also for the #56.
Hugh @ 49
Not simply useful, essential. There are literally hundreds of scandals, which have to be in a catalog for us to follow. This is a book for sure. Remember us little people when you succeed. See you on FDL Book Salon.
Hello Biodun!
I Did see your comment to me yesterday, but then we had the whole Valerie Thread, which was, of course, fabulous! So, and then we had the fires and still do, but…
hello.
(and I’m fixin’ to send you a fbm, please check in a few.)
Hugh @ 60:
You’re welcome. See my correx @ 59.
Great post, Jeralyn – and good news on the verdict.
Today in CA, we need some good news.
Thanks.
zennurse @ 35
what did stark do?
From what I have seen and read of the case from start to finish, they not only should have been acquitted, the charges likely should not have been filed. If the polling was indeed 11-1, as reported, on the question of viability of further deliberations; it may well be that there was indeed only one dissenter on the hung verdicts, and it would almost have to be the predominant main group for not guilty and the dissenter(s) guilty. If the government retries this crap, it is piss poor allocation of DOJ, prosecutorial and judicial resources.
selise @ 57
Pretty much. Just not be so blatantly political as Alberto and give good sounding non replies to questions in Congressional testimony rather than Abu’s “I don’t remember”.
Hugh:
I don’t mean to badger. But listen to egregious @ 62. She’s right! The work is too important and needs as wide a readership as possible. The world needs to know what this administration has done.
smapdi @ 47
Oh he is, is he??? That’s laughable!
Biodun @ 69
it should be published in the New York Times
demi @ 63:
Wave back!…:)
I personally think that the Bush Administration is in free fall, and will
attack Iran to save face.
Cheney and Bush need to be impeached
before they do great harm to the Nation…
I’m hoping that the Fine report will blast things open, but I’ve been wrong so many
times…
Elliott @ 71
Shoot – it could be its own Sunday magazine section – with or without the crossword puzzle.
I am with jayakcroyd@23 on this. Why is this confirmation a given? Status quo will not enforce subpoenas or turn over documents. We’re better off without an AG. Maybe a few more mavericks in the justice department will be emboldened.
“Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss”
Won’t get fooled again. (Some of us weren’t fooled the first time).
It’s so much fun, seeing all these “darksiders” who cannot stand the light of day, ‘cept these clowns are more Keystone Kops than Nosferatu. When brains were passed out they thought they said trains, and missed theirs.
Mutant Poodle @ 25
During the CLinton Administration it was pretty good. There was the “Day of Terror” investigation which led to the conviction of Abdel Rachamnn, there was the OK City trial which led tothe conviction of McVeigh, there was the first WTC bombing trial which ended in IIRC convictions for all defendants, there was the Africanbombing case and the USS Cole.
Under the Clinton Bush #1 admin and especailly under the Clinton DOJ, terrorism was not only prosecuted after the fact, plots (like the Day of Terror) were uncovered before they could be carried out which saved countless lives.
Hugh @ 49
Hugh you are welcome to email your email address to me and I’ll be happy to put you in touch with my agent in NYC.
afholliday AT sbcglobal DOT net
Any competent, ethical jurist or attorney knows full well that the interrogation techniques approved by the White House simply ARE torture.
Just as they also know that the Justice Department’s been up to its eyeballs providing memoranda saying that what they’re doing is legal. Only their whole argument can always be summed up as “Because we say it is.”
Only it isn’t. The White House simply can’t nominate anybody with ethics or morals — the Hobson’s Choice is to commit word-twisting legalistic perjury to Congress or else provide testimony establishing that yes, the White House has engaged in impeachable “high crimes and misdemeanors”.
So they won’t nominate anybody who won’t lie for them. Who won’t say that what they’re doing has been legal all along.
And then one day, some GOP congressman will submit a bill that declares everything the Bush administration has done “in the name of the GWOT” to have been retroactively legal.
Even when it wasn’t.
From the NYT:
“Mr. Rockefeller’s office said Monday that the sharp increases in contributions from the telecommunications executives had no influence on his support for the immunity provision.
“Any suggestion that Senator Rockefeller would make policy decisions based on campaign contributions is patently false,” Wendy Morigi, a spokeswoman for him, said. “He made his decision to support limited immunity based on the Intelligence Committee’s careful review of the situation and our national security interests.”
Yeah, that and the opportunity to fuck his Democratic colleagues in the Judiciary Committee.
Hugh @ 50
Per others above, the agent is critical and there is much, much greater demand for non-fiction. History of 20th century music is filled with talent who didn’t make it until they hooked up with the right agent. Publishing is a tight margin business completely divorced from the content and writing skills which you bring in such abundance. What separates you from so many others is your ability to make complex issues clear and accessible to a wider audience. IMVHO, that’s what publishers want. Plus, you’re actually funny. That sells.
Toby Wollin @ 74
and it would bring this administration down.
looseheadprop @ 76
IMO, because they treated it differently, more like police work than The Great War on Terrorism, where all brown colored people are terrists and By God we need to take all of your liberties away so we can do whatever it takes to stop them.
Hugh, everyone is right. The more widely broadcast, the better. And sooner as well.
This ties in with the last chapter of Naomi Klein’s book The Shock Doctrine, in which resistance to the Disaster Capitalists is treated as terrorism by the moneyed elites.
Hamas wouldn’t be popular if the people running the countries where it operates actually gave a rat’s behind about the teeming masses who can’t afford to eat, much less live, in the shiny new privatized downtowns such as Beirut’s “Solidere”, which was created when billionaire real-estate kingpin Rafik Hariri was allowed to swoop in and take the entire downtown for his own:
When Hariri was killed, the US media depicted him as a universally-beloved figure with no enemies besides the Eeeevil Syrians. The truth is that there was no shortage of Lebanese citizens, particularly those evicted from their homes and shops in Beirut, who had good reason to dislike the man.
Well done newspaperbrat!
OT, please notice the New York City newspaperbrat’s comment. A lot of cities have fine literary agents. IMVHO, your chances of getting a really talented agent are seriously enhanced if they office in NYC.
zennurse @ 56
It does speak of a major slap down. I wonder just what they threatened him with. The Dem leadership needs an intervention. Just how secure are Hoyt and Emanual in thier seats?
mc @ 79
And the Senator then should have no qualms about giving that money up. Otherwise I think the term bullshit is most appropriate here
Hugh, how can you possibly think of publishing that?
Sorry all. Had to be contrarian for a minute. Really, Hugh, this deserves very wide distribution!
Now, for a bright and cheerful note;
We may all be moving at breathtaking
speed in the ‘hand-basket,’ but the
nice thing is to be decorous about it.
Looks like hot weather ahead . . .
Raph Levien @ 44
Brilliant idea…after allwaterboarding doesn’t cause “pain” (or is it permanent injury with scars?). The question that should be asked of Mucasey while he experiences the waterboarding is “Do you agree that waterboarding is torture, yet?”
If he really doesn’t…and waterboarding is only going to give accurate responses rather than responses that get the “interrogation” to stop…then he should never say “Yes”. He should continue to deny that it is torture for the several hours of “aggressive questioning” by the Senators.
Of course, if he says “Yes”…he’s in a bit of a fix. It either means that he really DOES agree that waterboarding, as he is now experiencing, constitutes torture….
Or if he later denies this and says that it was a coerced statement…then he is trapped in the internal contradiction of that denial. The pain and fear was so great that he was compelled to lie to the Senators under oath.
Do it Hugh.
I have used that as a reference many times.
Raw Story this AM on Bush’s direct orders to torture:
Hugh @ 50
Try Esther Newberg. She’s in NYC. I think she might still be at Internatioanl Creative Management. If she is still around at all. She was great on non-fiction. I don’t know if the email addy is current.
enewberg@icmtalent.com
to join the chorus…
please publish, Hugh
you have a great gift to share….
1,636 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Merritt and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Good mornin’ sister Jeralyn and firepup ground-pounders but I’m late ta the party (new Westie puppy been workin’ the old Norseman out here, don’tcha know) but what happened with the fascist attempt ta censure Pete Stark? Was Nancy One Note able ta keep her caucus tagether?
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET YER KIDS DATE FASCISTS!!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 95
No, she wasn’t. The motion failed.
Raph Levien @ 43
please call his office, they are tired of me calling and asking the same question. i need some backup here.
Sheldon Whitehouse – (202) 224-2921
looseheadprop @ 77
Yupper. And there was the Millenium Plot and a host of other plots, all stopped because Clinton and Sandy Berger and Richard Clarke all gave a damn.
And the media of the time mocked Clinton for picking on that poor innocent Saudi financier Bin Laden. “Wag the dog! Wag the dog!” they kept screeching.
They had to destroy not only Clinton, but Sandy Berger as well, because he dared try to get Condi to give a damn about Al-Qaeda, too. (Hence the documents prosecution that even the hard-right goombahs of the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page said was bogus.)
kirk,
Good to ’see’ you today. What is the situation on the ground out that way? Would appreciate your first hand assessment.
Thanks, David.
Biodun @ 68
i know nothing about the publishing industry – but i’ll jump in with encouragement here too… and two suggestions: an index and a list of references.
Let me point out that it is published and available online now
Spread the link, be Johnny Hughseeds!
Hugh’s List
Elliott @ 100
I did link to it on my blog a while back, it was at about 200 entries then.
Congressman Pete Stark:
I know this was already posted but I’m so freeking furious right now that I needed to vent. WTF, did Pelosi and the rest do to him?
Jeralyn!
Welcome back to the Lake!
So, you think Mukasey is just old and tired and is going to let Addington push him around?
Bob in HI
Elliott @ 102:
The list is also linked in Hugh’s handle…*g*
Becca Morn @ 79
The thing is, I used to do interrogations in connection with mafia investigations. The ONLY way it works is if you convice the the witness that he is better off siding with you than in siding with the bad guys.
That is true of witnesses who are bad guys and witnesses who just don’t want to piss off bad guys for fear of retribution. You have to give the witness a reason to have confidence in you as their protector.
How does torture accomplish that?
remember, Hugh is rarely stunned.
:~)
Helpless Dancer @ 87
Rahm’s fairly secure, as he’s in a safe seat filled with reliably-blue but often low-to-middling-information voters. Plus he’s got corporate money out the wazoo.
Al Wynn, on the other hand, is Rahm’s consigliere and is eminently vulnerable, as Donna Edwards showed last year when her shoestring campaign nearly took out Wynn in the primary.
1,635 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen JF and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thanx, since censure failed what’s this about Stark’s apology…was it proforma and tongue in cheek and when did he present it?
Sorry ta be off topic but it’s hell growin’ old and tryin’ ta find the ponies in all the horseshit.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARFDS INTO YER YARD!!
Hi David -
Not good (though I’m in SF – we’re OK up here.
More fires and evacuations overnight.
Fires are burning in an arc across the southern third of this vast state – from North Santa Barbara County by Point Conception all the way to the Mexican border.
Three fires north of the LA megalopolis have coalesced into one blaze – driven south by the winds..
Santa Ana winds forecast to continue at least through Wed afternoon.
Evacuation for the coastal communities of Solana Beach and Del Mar. (wind blows fire West to ocean)
Fires also burning west towards San Diego (per KPBS)
Check out OC register and LA times for more.
Mutant Poodle @ 25
There was the Moussaoui trial. There was also the case of the Lackawanna 7. The Moussaoui trial was a travesty and there was a fair amount of railroading in the Lackawanna case. Given how high profile these cases are, the government has done a really lousy job with them.
Hugh @ 61
Methinks Romney is still drunk from his successfully stuffing the internet ballot boxes of the Family Research Council’s poll of Right-Wing Evangelicals held this weekend. Although he only received 10% of the votes from those that attended, while Huckabee won 50% of those…over 90% of his support came from on-line voters who put him narrowly ahead of Huckabee.
Suddenly Romney thinks that he’s got the religious right liking him…when he simply doctored the poll. Well not so “simply”…none of the Conservative Leaders at the “Values Voters” Convention wanted to admit that their “straw-poll” was tainted and easily manipulated by the Romney campaign which sent out emails telling his supporters to register and vote in the survey.
So what’s a little confusion over whether Obama or Osama sent a video out to terrorists in Iraq? After all, Romney and his supporters probably feel that all the Democrats are actually “terrorist sympathizers” anyhoo!
mc @ 80
Well, mc, I believe the spokesperson. My question for Dodd was:
The question I think we all have is how can this be? It’s impossible to believe that, for example, Senator Rockefeller would sell out the Constitution and the rule of law over 40 or 50 thousand dollars in campaign contributions for a safe seat. The idea that the central tenets of the constitution, and its British roots in common law, from the basic ideas of the Magna Carta through the Enlightment can just be tossed is hard to comprehend. Also, throwing away the foundations of the First Branch is incomprehensible–and would be to Adams and Jefferson both, Franklin and Hamilton.
What is really going on here?
solai @ 104
He should have just amended his statement:
Instead of saying Bush enjoyed the death of our soldiers, I should have said that he is simply indifferent to them.
And the American Israel Affairs Committee gets a free pass.
The sad thing is that as Digby says, Stark’s being ritually humiliated for speaking the truth will not stop the Republicans and their media toadies from using this to distract from SCHIP and torture and everything else.
Bustednuckles @ 83
And it ain’t just brown folks, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were very white, and post verdict more and more has come to like which points to Nichols having connections to Al QUeda in the far east. OK City may not have simply been the work of some nutcase.
Phoenix Woman @ 116
no, but it may stop others from speaking the truth… which is what makes me think that is it’s purpose.
Jane’s upstairs and outraged with Stark’s apology…
kirk murphy @ 111
((((hug))))
That’s all I can say, Kirk.
If he doesn’t see this as a career move, Mukasey will just be biding his time and going along with the status quo? He will shuffle papers and people around departments a little but basically things will remain the same. Looks like Congress is just going through the motions to me. A few poignant questions by the usual players while the results end up in file thirteen.
I will give Congressional Democrats credit. They are being consistent – follow the leader.
mc @ 80
This reminds me of this famous exchange in Casablanca.
kirk,
Thank you. I know what those firestorms are like, though only through talking with those who have fought them (saw some video footage taken when ‘retreat’ was only option) and thinking about the potential for such whenever I’ve been in California. Did a bit of such ‘fighting’ in PA and NY but realize the incredible difference.
You are in my thoughts, as are all in such harm’s way. Too many ways of harm in this world today, we shouldn’t ever practice such as ‘policy’.
Hugh @ 112
yeah but they were both done during Shrubya, the Boy King’s reign.
When Mary jo White was USA SDNY she had Dave Kelley and Pat Fitzgerald running the counterterrorism unit. They are kinda persnickety guys and like to actually WIN their cases fair and square. WHich is why you don’t see much in the way of reversals on appeal.
Also, they made cases the old fashioned way, with evidence. Clinton, Berger and Clark had no say in what cases were brought. The intel develped from those investigatins went upstream to them, but the Clinton WH did not direct investigations or prosecutions. WHich is why those investigations and prosecutions were so succesful.
They were done by professionals who knew their jobs.
Under SHrub, you have a WH trying to insert tiself into the decision making process baout what to investigtae and whom t prosecute which is why yousee all these shabby cases being brought.
This is part of the politiciaztion of DOJ.
Re: Rockefeller, Stark et al. Did anyone see the Masterpiece Theater on Sunday about the (fictional) British store manager who in a “plague on both your houses” moment decides to make the gesture of running for parliament as an independent & unintentionally sets off a stampede of defections & newbie candididates which wins her the prime ministership?
1,635 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
This post is excellent and reinforces that almost every time actions of this administration get to the courts they get smacked down by the people, however, the larger issue in light of Pelosi’s “water boarding” of Pete Stark and Jay Rockefeller’s cave-in to Chaney on FISA is how do we get to the Democratic Party leadership and insure that the lawlessness GETS to the courts or better yet gets to Congress in open session, fer Christ’s sake??!!
Can Sheehan be convinced to run in the Democratic primary against Pelosi (as opposed to runnin as an “independent”)…with help from the blogosphere Sheehan could attract enough attention that it would really undermine Pelosi’s future as Speaker in a new Congress.
KEEP THE FAITH AND LET’S TAKE AIM AT THE BASTARDS IN OUR OWN PARTY!!
jayackroyd @ 114
My editorial comment was simply frustration. What I think is really going on is that the White House is playing brilliant hardball politics. By creating a wedge between the Senate Intel and Judiciary Committees, it succeeds at making the Dems appear hapless, again. It also doesn’t hurt that Sen. Rockefeller is “predisposed” to considering “limited immunity” for the telcons. I’m sure in his own mind he thinks he’s making an impartial policy decision.
But if it walks like bribery, and quacks like bribery, then it’s probably…
bmaz @ 67
What’s even weirder on this…the jury told the judge that they had, in fact, reached a unanimous decision. This was late Friday…so the judge said that he would recess, allow the jurors to go home for the weekend, and then he would read the sealed verdicts on Monday.
On Monday the “dissenters” (possibly 3) suddenly began to protest after some of the verdicts were being read. Now if there was not unanimity in the verdicts then why could they go along with the foreman and the judge saying that a verdict had been reached on the charges??? Why didn’t they “protest” on Friday? Before they went home? They must have realized that deliberations were being ended. That a unanimous verdict had been announced.
Instead they waited until the verdicts were actually being read in court to dissent.
This to me sounds like one or more of the jurors were “talked to” over the weekend and decided to block the verdicts that had already been reached. At least one of those “Runaway Jurors” decided to be a hold out when the Judge sent them back into Chambers. The foreman reported that one juror was a holdout, and that they were unlikely to reach a decision, not just on a single charge, but THREE of them.
Why do I think that this stinks to high-heaven of jury tampering? That juror had plenty of time to protest the announcement of the verdicts before they were being read. They certainly didn’t think that they could announce non-unanimous verdicts!
And the fact that they supposedly opposed the rest of the jurors on three counts. I could see a miscount of the jurors votes occurring on one count…but all three???? Especially when that juror would have been the holdout that needed to “come over”? I think the judge needs to carefully interview this juror and others to see how this mistrial occurred?
mc @ 80
Then he should return them, all of them that have occurred in his tenure in the Senate (retrospectively)…and never take a penny from them in the future. That would remove the blot from his reputation.
Phoenix Woman @ 117
But what it WILL do is serve as Nancy’s “object lesson” for anyone else who has the temerity to stick his head up and make any noise that doesn’t go along with Mrs. Pelosi’s script.
Shame on her.
No one else gets to be a leader in that sandpile, I guess.
Another terrorism “success” of the Bushies was the Eric McDavid trial.
Eric was just convicted by a jury based on info from the paid FBI informant (Anna the “street medic”) who provided the house, money, vehicle, and other material support for their activities.
Entrapment?
When interviewed by Eric’s attorney after the verdict, the jurors reported they did not trust anything the FBI informant said that could not be independently corroborated.
The jurors also stated they would have voted to acquit save for a single contested answer (during deliberations) from the trial judge.
looseheadprop @ 107
It doesn’t. Torture is act of unmitigated evil. And I am deeply ashamed to be an American whose country has engaged in such acts — not just once or twice, but as a matter of national policy.
And so these evil men continue to claim that that which is done in our names is not torture. That it is somehow necessary — and yet they never manage to show that it is. There’s never any accurate information or “actionable intelligence” to use their twisted terminology.
Just people — humans — who will scream and confess to anything, to make the pain and fear stop.
It’s beyond sad. It’s a disease, a malignancy upon a once decent nation.
I still have to keep shaking myself, to realize that this really is what’s become of a place that once put great stock in freedom, decency, and accountability. The trouble is, what I’m seeing from the Democratic party members we worked so hard to elect the last cycle — is that they still don’t get it.
Great job Jeralyn.
What makes it all even more mind boggling is the jury selection process. If I have read reports of this case correctly, the prosecution knew going in that they would have to sell this theory and so they were allowed to EXCLUDE from the jury pool, for cause, anyone who said that they would not convict someone who only supplied humanitarian aid of supporting terrorism.
So suddenly, instead of a representative community, you have one that is skewed to include only persons who believe that supplying humanitarian aid can be support of terrorism – actualy and not metaphorical.
So it is from THAT pool that these decisions were rendered.
And it was with the approaches established by Fitzgerald in his Salah case of using identity cloaked anonymous sourcing – - so we now have even more veneer added to that theory when it comes into play for GITMO trials.
*sigh*
Meanwhile, other parts of DOJ are doing the Lord’s work by spending thousands of manhours and going into millions of dollars going after a Democratic coroner for sending personal faxes and a Democratic Southern black state senator’s daughter for having $700.00 in unreported income.
All while supporting torture and, with the disappearing of KSMs children, keeping the “kid” in “kidnap”
I’ve always been a pretty law and order person, but these days just hearing the words, “Deparment of Justice” makes you want to take a hot shower with antibacterials.
And I am deeply ashamed to be an American whose country has engaged in such acts — not just once or twice, but as a matter of national policy.
It’s creepy just listening to the “debate” as if there could be such a thing.
Tying to Jeralyn’s post – the simple reason that Mukasey will not say waterboarding is torture is that we have done it. If he is on the record saying it is torture and illegal, then a) Bush will likely withdraw his nomination bc Bush will never appoint anyone who would say that, but if he doesn’t withdraw, b) there is an immediate conflict with the PUBLIC Executive Order that states nothing illegal can be classified and c) there are now all kinds of persons who have actual knowledge of the commission of criminal behaviour (and its authorization at the highest levels) and who will be part of a conspiracy if they don’t come forward.
So even simply saying he thinks waterboarding is torture sets into motion many irreversible things and they are things that not only Bush wants to avoid, but members of Congress – most importantly including DEMOCRATS – want to avoid as well.
Because then you have the situation of either pursuing the crimes – which Democrats like Nancy Pelosi do not want to see happen – or even further (as if it could happen) degrading the DOJ by allowing all the known and publically admitted torture crimes to go unpursued as a matter of policy.
The fix is in. Mukasey is going to go in, run things “better” (probably by some ‘no uncertain language’ explanations of no MORE torture on his watch) and exercise his “discretion” to let off everyone to date under the Nuremberg Defense theory that they were just following orders, and let off those who gave the orders as well, but not going “there” anymore on his watch.
Bc, of course, that always works. Allowing torture and kidnap and sexually deviant anal and other violations and disappearing of people, including very young children – but making sure you go “tsk tsk” at some point in your cover up.
It’s all too sad to contemplate – what this country has become. And I watched a small portion of Hayden on Rose last night and got physically ill.
Everyone who works(ed) for any of them – Gonzales, Bush, Cheney, Mueller, Hayden, Tenet, etc. – and kept working after the first torture memo was revealed is without shame and without soul.
Hugh @ 42 – I only saw a small tidbit, but I did also notice that Hayden was selling the “beyond the ticking time bomb” theme and saying that if we wait to torture until there is a ticking time bomb, then we’ve waited too long and so we should start torturing anyone we can find and get by with disappearing (guilty or not bc they have to be ‘guilty’ bc the CIA only makes mistakes on little things like WMDs) before there are any bombs (except for the ones we are selling or the nuclear ones we are transporting around the country without knowing how or why).
Or something like that – it was hard to follow with all the twitching, blinking, jerking and references to the “homeland”
Sorry, I don’t understand this…Why would Rommel, er.. Romney, the general that led the Nazi Panzer divisions in North Africa during the War, be commenting on a Democratic candidate for president? I think he should just mind his own damn business and stay buried.
Biodun @ 51
If that’s all it would take to derail an Obama general election campaign (and I’ve been saying that for some time), then Obama is unelectable and his supporters should come to their senses and switch to some other candidate.
I suggest they look at Edwards since Obama has been reading his speeches for some time. If they like the rhetoric maybe they’d like the man who wrote those speeches.
John Edwards — Leadership for Obama supporters!
selise @ 66
He told the truth in public.
Apparently the House members rebuked Nancy for calling for that censure. Good on ‘em! Nancy is supposedly their leader, not their master. Gosh, I wonder what has gotten into her.