With over a million people having fled from fires raging in Southern California, I thought we’d look in on TBogg and see how he was doing:
When I got home last night there wasn’t any parking, which I take to mean that a lot of evacuated people are staying with friends and family in the neighborhood; the beach being the farthest point on land on which to run. This, of course, got me thinking where would I go should I get the dreaded reverse 911 call. All there is is sand and then water and, believe me, bassets don’t float.
I know a lot of people have families affected by the fire. Here’s hoping all your loved ones sleep safely tonight.
(photo by Bubba Hotep)
Related posts:
Spotlight
TRex!!!
A serious subject.
Wrong guess..Jane!!!!
Hi Jane.
{{{{{Southern Californians and their beloveds}}}}}}}}
Half a million evacuated. Unbelievable. Can’t even wrap my brain around it at all.
Beautiful Jane.
Fire from space.
Jane!!!
Hello, hello. Well, inasmuch as much of the comments have become fireblogging (sorry!) throughout the day…
Sounds bad out there. Every report I hear sounds worse than the previous.
sending rainy no wind thoughts to socal
Hi Jane – geez, just got back from a walk to end of the street to check the location of the fire… and your picture looks just like our neighborhood!
I’ve been off the toobz all day-are all the SoCal firepups accounted for and, hopefully, in a safe place?
madmommy @ 6
almost One Million is what I heard an hour ago (950,000).
Mind boggling.
People are hurting so bad.
Suzanne – “no windy” has reached the area, could you please work on the rainy part?
And half of the Guard are you know where.
Because Shrub doesn’t believe in nation building.
neurophius @ 2
Unless you’re Glenn Beck, in which case it’s an opportunity to look even more like an asshole than you already did. (I assume for the sake of argument that it’s possible to look more like an asshole than Beck already did.)
Watch for Bush to somehow say that the fires were the work of terrorists (arsonists). The insurance companies don’t pay for acts of terrorism.
allan_in_upstate @ 17
Certainly not in this nation.
OldCoastie @ 16
OC, glad to hear from you. I’ll see what i can do but my weather dude says no rain up here until probably after halloween.
Hi Jane.
I read somewhere this evening that Glen Beck made some snotty comments about people who live in places like that. You know, like those irresponsible people who lived in New Orleans.
He has made a serious mistake and I hope it comes back and bites him in the ass; many, many of the houses being burned belong to Republicans.
And, oh joy! the photo-op vultures will descend on us tomorrow to fly over some of the burn sites and cluck about how bad it is. What I want to know is when are those C-130s going to start flying.
opie_jeanne
EvilDrPuma @ 18
Well, we haven’t heard from Coultergeist as yet …
marymccurnin @ 19
I expect he will be too busy evading any federal responsibility for the disaster, while looking for photo ops with cute little ethnic kids.
Suzanne @ 14
Astounding. I have missed out on any current info today, so I am obviously off the mark.
Any word on when the shrub will be making an appearance with sleeves rolled up, talking big and doing nothing?
Weren’t we supposed to hear from LooHoo via Demi? Does anyone know about that?
EvilDrPuma @ 18
The bigger the fires get the bigger an asshole he continues to become. There must be some kind of asshole/beck math equation to measure this.
Helen @ 26
I believe Demi checked in earlier and that all was well with LooHoo…
i heard boosh is showing up tomorrow along with his usual buncha do nothings. i have not heard if babs will accompany him
madmommy @ 25
THat’s scheduled for Thursday, although word is that the Lt. Gov dissed him — have not been able to confirm this (was supposed to have been on Hardball?) though.
marymccurnin @ 27
Probably need a slide rule to figure it properly. I can’t even think of anything bad enough to call it (not him, which would indicate some sort of humanity)
peanutbutter @ 30
Sweet. A GOP Lt. Gov?
Suzanne @ 29
I’m too tired to even LOOK at his face! Chertoff’s creeping me out bad, but I was surprised, I was actually glad to see Ahnold… don’t know why, but thought he might try to actually, you know… help… in a tangible kinda way… like by rustling up more planes and people…
TexBetsy @ 4
Hi Betsy.
Therapod down, I’m afraid folks. Hurt is back.
We moved into a new house a week ago- and got evacuated from it two nights ago. We’re back- but now they’re sayin that a fire may be coming this way again. This is the worst wildfire yet- because it’s a dozen fires and you don’t really know whats goin on.
Sleep until someone knocks at the door and tell ya to leave. What the hell.
Madmommy, the shrub is scheduled to visit SoCal on Thursday. Like the emergency workers need the extra security hassles.
from my (probably too short) mental list- Loo Hoo is okay, but no info about whether her house survived or not. OldCoastie, last I read, was still ~1.5 miles from the nearest fire. OKK got in contact with his daughter in SD- she is ok. Blub is accounted for. no word from rwcole (maybe evacuated?). Please, anyone, add to the list.
madmommy @ 32
No! A dem. A good dem.
Suzanne @ 29
Dana Perino reported earlier today that BoyKing would NOT go there, so as to not interfere with ops, or deflect attention . . . that was about Noon my time Left Coast I think . .
By 2pm or so, BoyKing hikes birdie West . . . funny how things change.
I liked Perino’s first take the best . . . but how ya gonna stop a photo op with Ahnold And BoyKing?
And of course, BoyKing’s BOOKED FUNCTION is now re-filled with Shooter . . . forget what and where it was, but, it’s a doozy for Shooter to pump up the Iran Do Do . . .
Arghh . . .
EvilDrPuma @ 18
Yes and Rush has weighed in on the side petty and stupid as well. Blaming the fires on liberals and environmentalists. I swear these people have no souls at all.
rwcole @ 35
What a scary way to live.
marymccurnin @ 27
A=M^3, where A is Glenn Beck’s assholiness, and M is the magnitude of the disaster.
has anyone heard from burns? from rwcole? how about other socal pups?
rwcole @ 35
Glad to hear from you. Be safe.
smapdi @ 7
Wow
We are more than 20 miles from the nearest fire. Theres’ so much smoke in the air, even here, that the sun was a giant orange ball in the sky today and the sidewalk umbrellas at work were covered in ash at the day’ send. The kids weren’t allowed to play outside at school.
Some of those same areas burned just a few years ago. I can’t imagine how awful it must be for((LooHoo and others)). If there’s any way we can help, please let me know.
Demon Santa Anas.
rwcole @ 35
glad to hear from you – i had just asked if anyone had.
Jane Hamsher @ 34
I’m sure we have enough well wishes to divert some his way.
rwcole @ 35
Oh! glad you showed up rw. Christy was asking about you and blub earlier- blub showed up, and now you have!
Clusterfuck’s scheduled for thursday. They’re lookin for just the right mission for his photo op. Useless piece of shit.
Jane Hamsher @ 34
I don’t even want to think about how much Ibupr*fen that will take, do they have tablets in kilogram size?
Jane Hamsher @ 34
I hope he gets well soon… 8-(
TheOtherWA @ 36
Not that that would be any consideration whatsoever. Just like the artfully lit Jackson Square speech when most of the city was sitting in the dark and lining up at the Red Cross for water. What a jerk.
It’s nice to see you in Late Nite, Jane. How are you liking DC?
Jane Hamsher @ 34
I hope he is going to be alright. Any word on the prognosis? I know from experience how painful that can be.
I hear (from DKos diary?) that Rush added his two-cents on the fires. He blamed GreenPeace, environmentalists and Hillary Clinton. Mostly for not lending a hand. Literally. He wants to know why they weren’t there helping when the fires broke out.
rwcole @ 49
In case I forget between now and Thursday, please communicate to the President my deepest contempt.
Twain @ 43
Ditto. You were the one SoCal pupster not yet heard from (well, that I know of).
Jane Hamsher @ 34
Good grief … is he an amusement ride at the Creation Museum ?!! *g*
((((( TRex )))))
petedownunder @ 50
Chiropractor?
Just what we DON’T need is a bunch of posturing politicians…fuck heads.
solai @ 55
did Rush bother to blame the goddamn arsonists? or is that too illogical?
Here is another photo of the fires but it is from yesterday.
http://www.osei.noaa.gov/Event…..296_MO.jpg
rwcole @ 49
Maybe he can land on a carrier in the Pacific and smirk at the smoke coming offshore.
Or he can clear brush in Malibu.
Just not too close to any horses.
TheOtherWA @ 53
I like it quite a bit. Am having a lot of fun. Going out a lot, something I haven’t done for a while but am really enjoying.
Was at party with Pool Boy the other night. We didn’t chat.
Only one death so far is amazing…Sounds like hell on earth. Jesus Mary and Joseph stop the winds and bring some rain.
solai @ 55
And I take it Limbaugh was right there on the scene?
Yeah, right.
rwcole @ 59
I’m glad you’re ok. And I really hope this ends soon.
solai @ 55
Such an ass. The trained firefighters are having to fall back in a lot of places. Does he think Hillary should just grab a bucket? Logic and the noise machine are so far from each other it is mindboggling!
Hugh @ 61
I’ve been looking for one from today, but no luck.
Oh, and my apologies if I sounded patronizing on the other thread.
Jane, that is too bad about TRex and his back (been there, done that) but we do have the pleasure of you at Late Nite for a few. We don’t want you to stay up too late though.
EvilDrPuma @ 42
OMG! Will you marry me? Or at least kiss me?
Mommybrain @ 45
I know the feeling. The closest any of the fires got to me this summer was about 20-30 miles, but the smoke was unbearable for most of August. Try to avoid too much strenuous activity until the smoke clears – it is as bad or worse than heavy smoking.
Jane Hamsher @ 34
Oh, no. How bad?
Hugh @ 61
Amazing image
betcha boosh’s advance team will pull firefighters to stand as a backdrop for boosh – instead of letting them fight the forking fires
Suzanne @ 69
Kobe says he’ll take over if I get tired.
Lots of energy these days. Howie’s diet really working for me.
Jane, have you been to the Cellar Door yet for music (OMG, is it even still there?) Saw Tom Waits there for the first time years ago, and Roberta Flack, Betty Carter, to many to remember (it was the 70’s after all).
Jane Hamsher @ 63
Oh Jane! Good to see you back at late nite, if only briefly. Brings back memories of the old days. What, you didn’t chat with Pool Boy? You missed the chance to hear pearls of wisdom drop from his lips?
solai @ 72
Pretty bad, other FDL folks will be subbing for him for a few nights.
marymccurnin @ 70
GoodMrsPuma would destroy us both.
Jane Hamsher @ 63
Hey Jane. I am thinking of moving to DC from NYC. Can’t decide.
Jane Hamsher @ 75
woohoo jane! most excellent news
Argh!!! Rush is a figment of the imagination that will pass.
Suzanne @ 74
Saving that quarter?
Jane @63
Heh, heh. I bet your presence will make those parties a whole lot more interesting. For people who think, anyway. :D
Jane Hamsher @ 75
Great news, Jane. Have you been able to incorporate yoga/meditation/visualization into your routine as yet ?
Suzanne @ 14
in San Diego County alone there’s 514,000 under mandatory evac orders. I’d say at least that many more are in the advisory evac areas, and at least that many have voluntarily left areas close to the affected areas. So I’d say a million is probably a good estimate of the number of people moving about in the SD area now. And that’s just one of the 7 effected counties.
Petrocelli @ 23
Coulter’s busy this week with Horowitz on his college tour, warning students about Idiotofascism.
Check the Minutemens pockets for matches, I say.
Suzanne @ 74
I’d love to see them all refuse.
OK. Lameness alert.
Who’s Pool Boy?
FunnyDiva
Valley Girl @ 77
Does feel like old times, doesn’t it?
I think we should resurrect this in honor of it.
Damn Monk is good.
EvilDrPuma @ 79
Yea. My hubby wouldn’t like it much either.
kathleen @ 64
We’re in the middle of a long drought cycle here. Maybe some sprinkles next week but even our normal rainfall, a whopping 14″ a year, which we haven’t seen in years, wouldn’t help all that much.
Here is an image from earlier today.
http://www.osei.noaa.gov/Event…..96_G11.jpg
Suzanne @ 74
maybe they’ll put him in a firefigher’s outfit..
Petrocelli @ 85
Working on it.
Pulling people out of prison to help.
“Fire crews from Nevada and Arizona were drafted in, as were 2,300 volunteer low-risk offenders
from state prisons.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..ire124.xml
Hi Jane and other Late Niter Pups.
Spoke with Loo Hoo a bit ago.
She’s hanging in there, but still has No Idea whether her house has survived.
It’s too crazy down there. The person who she’s staying with does Not Have A Computer.
Limits one’s research. She went to the Sports Arena but got no new information. She’s hoping to be able to drive to where her house is and then…she’ll know.
She’s a tough cookie. Gotta love Loo Hoo.
She sends her warmest regards. I’ve tried to keep her up on all of your remarks…
This wind has got to give it up. It’s working on my last good nerve. And, my dog say’s Ditto.
Oh, and has anyone noticed there’s a Full Moon Waxing? The Hits just keep coming.
But, we are strong, we are intelligent and We Care. We’ll be fine.
peanutbutter @ 30
I don’t know about a diss by the Lt. Guv, but he’ll be here in Humboldt county tomorrow and Thursday. Bush is scheduled to be in SoCal on Thursday.
Blub @ 95
Only if he gets to wear a parachute. With the straps that cut across the thighs is a very manly sort of way.
MSNBC Garamendi is a Dem (the Lt Gov.). That link may or may not take you to the MSNBC video clip where Garemendi takes a shot at Bush. No audio here, but maybe someone could check. Warning: the clip flashes a few seconds of the shrub speaking before he mercifully goes away for the rest of the clip. Should be the big clip to the right & an ad to get thru.
Blub @ 95
Do those come with a codpiece?
kathleen @ 97
I gather that the Guard is otherwise engaged
Fern @ 57
Why wait…better safe than sorry
Jane Hamsher @ 96
Let me know if I can help.
G’ nite all … have to go and do some writing …
Just got back from San Diego. Lots of soot and smoke, but the airport was still open, at least. What’s scary is that the city has fire on one side and water on the other. If it gets much closer to the city center, there’s nowhere to go.
Blub @ 95
maybe they’ll stuff him in a diaper, put a little bonnet on his head and stick a lollipop in his mouth… at least then I would laugh…
Blub @ 95
And stuff a medium sized hot dog in the front of his pants like they did on the aircraft carrier.
demi @ 100
Please send our best.
Glad you are okay too, rw.
Kevin Hayden @ 87
Heh, did ya catch Josh’s takedown of Horowitz today? ;-)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/056780.php
Did Trex pull a muscle, or is this a disk problem? If you can tell us.
I had disk problems last year. No fun at all. Two weeks of almost complete bed rest. But it did heal and haven’t had that problem again, thank God.
(((rw and family)))
rwcole @ 35
I’ve lived here for some 50 years and this happens every year in So. CA, just like clockwork. Next, the winter rains and mudslides will follow and wash some of the burnt Malibu mansions into the sea.
You can count on it every season, and yet every time they make it up to be something like never before.
Well…like last season or the one before it.
It’s like people who live in hurricane alley and act surprised and are unprepared when the next whopper comes along and levels the place, like it’s done so many times before.
Cufford
Fresno, CA
madmommy @ 100
he will probably come packing again
CA has trained low risk offenders in custody into a highly trained crew of firefighters. They get called out a lot and many times have more experience fighting wildfires than the city fd crews also pulled into assist.
night petro
Cufford – how many fires you got going up there in Fresno?
Suzanne @ 115
wow.
Jane Hamsher @ 91
Jeez, I thought you meant this Monk.
Rush Limbaugh, ladies and gentlemen:
Mommybrain @ 93
The whole west is in a drought. We have been in a drought here in Montana for about 10 years. We are currently 2.5 inches below our normal whopping 13 inches. These fires are only going to get bigger and nastier as this continues, particularly as many areas (like here) have record warm summers and below normal snowfall in the winter. Much of the west (including the northern Rockies and SoCal) is a fire ecology – basically designed to burn regularly. Between the effects of global warming and past fire suppression, we are set up for regular infernos for the foreseeable future. In areas like SoCal, expanding development into the mountains and chaparral make the human cost all that much greater.
Frank Probst @ 106
I think we’re OK in the city proper…
Demi–
Has Loo Hoo been able to watch TV? There’s been some info re: the burned areas being reported.
If she needs anything, she’s welcome to stop by my place. I’m in the Mission Valley area, safe from the fires, and I have internet access.
(((Loo Hoo)))
peanutbutter @ 103
Good clip-”the President comes here, we’ll be polite, but it’s not what we need…” you could tell he was trying very hard to restrain himself and not start cussing a blue streak.
Suzanne @ 115
Yeah that will be the folks at the Farm — forget it’s actual name, not Music but close.
Fun place. It’s minimum security so now and then an inmate will try walking off. So then OC’s SAR team would sent their bloodhounds out on a jaunt to round him up.
Yes, fire crews and equipment from az went over yesterday I think. The winds stopped here earlier today so I hope they have gotten some kind of relief over there. They were a two day non stop freight train and I can’t imagine where 1 million people evacuate to. Just a nightmare. Geeeeeze.
Kevin Hayden @ 87
Ah yes, an invented word for a nonexistent entity. Sadly, I’m not referring to the name Ann Coulter.
DrDick @ 121
yep.. and that’s not helped by anti-controlled burn policies and an almost total lack of underbrush clearance in areas historically cleared by smaller brush fires, away from historically populated areas. We’ve made all the mistakes needed for a perfect firestorm.
Blub @ 95
Maybe they’ll put on a fireline and let him suck a little smoke for a while. Might let him consider the appropriate use of all that National Guard equipment he sent to Iraq. Lots of my students are hotshots and wilderness fire fighters. If this thing does not get under control, I expect some of them may be heading down there soon.
Suzanne @ 115
Well, in that case, the conclusions I jumped to on the previous thread were seriously wrong.
solai @ 120
And he was there personally to check, right?
“What an asshole.” –Rush Limbaugh’s anal cyst
pb, they have variations of the oc farm all over the state. call em honor farms, camps, etc. they do year round training and those inmates fight fire as hard if not harder than the ca dept of forestry crews working alongside them.
“What an asshole.” –Rush Limbaugh’s anal cyst
EDP, do you crack GMP up as much as you crack us up?
CTuttle @ 112
Did you folks all ready see this over at talking points
Obama and Hillary on the Dodd Bandwagon
This is fascinating. You remember a few days ago, Sen. Dodd — who sometimes doubles as a presidential candidate — said he would filibuster the telecom immunity bill now moving through the senate. Now both Hillary and Obama are saying they’d support Dodd’s filibuster.
–Josh Marshall
Here’s some OT fuckery for everyone:
Our esteemed governor-elect Jindal has decided that he is more than capable of handling his Congressional seat and the transition work needed before his inauguration. So he will not step down from his seat until right before he is sworn in as Governor. Which means there will need to be primaries, seperately for dem and rep, then the general election. He’s pretty much blown off the job he was elected to do not long ago (Congress) to run for Governor, and now it looks as though the district will effectively be without representation until late spring or early summer of 2008.
Did CNN’s Rightwing Nutcase Glenn Beck Say Malibu Liberals Hate America, So Deserve Wild Fires?
from Brad blog by Jon Ponder, Pensito Review
On his radio gabfest yesterday, CNN’s resident rightwing crackpot Glenn Beck implied that because residents of Malibu “hate America,” they were therefore unluckily suffering the loss of their homes to wildfires:
I think there is a handful of people who hate America. Unfortunately for them, a lot of them are losing their homes in a forest fire [sic] today.
Leaving aside the fact that there isn’t a “forest” within miles of Malibu, just seconds before that outrageous, though half-baked, assertion, Beck made a statement that contradicted what he was about to say:
[We’re] all one America, that just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean you hate America, and I love America. We all love America. We just disagree on how we should function…
He then contradicted himself in the same sentence a second time, saying he was not referring to Democrats but to nefarious people (liberals? terrorists?) who pretend to be Democrats:
kathleen @ 133
Hmmm. Methinks I’m going to quietly donate a bit more money to Dodd’s campaign…
Mommybrain @ 132
I try, but I don’t get as many chances to be political about it with her. Not that she disagrees with me, but she’s much nicer than I am.
OT
I read in the Sac Bee today that the rebugs are trying to start up the initiative to split the electorial votes again.
Kind of hard to see much of consequence when you’re busy slobbering over your latest crush.
;>)
CTuttle @ 110
Enjoyed the vid CTuttle. Still trying to think of a good way to teach my shadow puppets how to properly identify an Iz-Lame-O-felchist
Kristine,
I’ll pass that along.
Thanks. Need to hit it.
Gotta get up at 5 tomorrow and I still have that Alice Walker book calling me.
Sleep peacefully as y’all can.
XXX OOO
madmommy @ 134
I did mention to you, the other nite, he could do that… 8-(
Linky-poo’s
Obama and Hillary on the Dodd Bandwagon
Hillary Says She Would Support Filibuster Of Intel Committee’s Telecom Immunity Bill
OT, but nothing is OT at Late Nite, particularly with Jane here:
From the NYT:
Is Junya gonna bomb/invade Cuba too? Is that before or after we do the deed with Iran?
Seems like Junya jest can’t hep himself. Is there a country left that he hasn’t threatened?
MI5, CIA, NSA….
I’m listening to the old walrusses blabbing…just blabbing…
WTF. These people are talking in code…
I’m sick of their secrets.
Blub @ 127
Even here in western Montana, where there are far fewer people and less danger to buildings, there is considerable resistance to controlled burns. AS to thinning, the local timber industry keeps trying to push for more logging, which actually makes the situation worse by taking out the larger, fire resistant tress and leaving behind mountains of highly combustible slash. People out here just do not want to recognize that our forests need small burns annually to maintain proper health.
Mad Dogs @ 144
That is so pointless. First of all, Raul is about two years younger than Fidel and is considered quite a bit weaker. The transition will likely go somewhere else, even if Raul is a figurehead for a while. At this point, we can afford to just wait it out.
Bah.
neokneme @ 143
“Support” in what way? By participating, or by not casting a cloture vote? Or just by saying the word “support” and imagining that it means something?
madmommy @ 134
Louisiana has some strong magic goin’ on.
Cufford @ 115
Here is an article that is right in line with your point
The fire last time. And the time before that.
A peek through the recent Opinion archives for fire-policy commentary fueled by the Santa Anas
October 23, 2007
And so now the fiery evil has come again–making no distinctions, devouring almost everything in its path, reminding us of our mortality and of this elemental, powerful force of nature. Triggered by either the evil hand of a yet-to-be-identified arsonist or some accidental flame, the new fires linked up with the hot, dry Santa Ana winds and soon became a driving firestorm of fearsome destruction and fury. The infernos engulfed parts of Malibu and areas of Riverside, San Bernardino and San Diego counties.
That description was not written today or yesterday, but 14 years ago, in a Times editorial lamenting that season’s particularly deadly round of wind-blown, drought-fueled inferno.
Every October and November in Southern California, the Santa Anas howl, the chaparral burns, and a charred region tries to come to grips with the devilish public policy issues of building and protecting property in a land designed to periodically scorch. That debate as played out through the years in the Times’ opinion section, so before another round of agonizing begins, we thought it would be useful to see what people have been saying on precisely this topic over the years.
http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..ion-center
solai @ 120
When I was a student at HumboldtSU, I managed apts. One tenant was the nicest guy in the world, a major deadhead, total environmentalist. He was killed fighting fires.
Rush, as usual, is talking out of his BungCanyon.
Mad Dogs @ 144
Uhh, …Paraguay?
LS @ 151
Needs some progressive voodoo.
kathleen @ 150
Oh, quite. I can remember editorials in this vein clear back to the 70’s and have no doubt there exist more before that…
Mad Dogs @ 144
How would he stop whatever they wanted to do? I assume they are a country…..oh, wait…..
Petrocelli @ 23
Well good riddance to Coultergeist and she is the last creature on earth who will be in my thoughts – our state’s terror in the southland and all creatues great and small consume my empathy and good luck wishes.
Gonna go curl up with mrbrat and watch weeds – see all you wonderful folk later.
Hi Jane -
I’m leaving early tomorrow morning for a few days and wanted to get this posted. Good to see you here at this hour.
Here is part of an e-mail I received from http://www.Couragecampaign.org. This is exactly what Naomi Wolf describes in natural disasters used to facilitate a fascist state. The destroyed Potrero community near San Diego is the location where Blackwater plans to put a massive mercenary training facility. Now all the homes are destroyed.
http://www.couragecampaign.org/Potrero
How convenient for the Thug Caste, Blackwater.
CTuttle @ 145
Yeah, still with all his talk of honor and ethics one would be led to think he would do the right thing. Some idiot on the radio said today why should he step aside, he works for a living and needs the paycheck. Since he said in the last debate he’s a multi-millionaire (who’s never held a job outside government?!) methinks he can swing it.
Nite, NPB! 8-)
MoveOn is teaming up with some of the netroots blogs to
from TPM Josh Marshall by David Kurtz
MoveOn is teaming up with some of the netroots blogs to pressure Clinton and Obama to oppose telecom immunity.
Late Update: Obama camp issues statement supportive of Sen. Chris Dodd’s threatened filibuster of telecom immunity.
Late Late Update: Hillary issues statement saying she’d support filibuster of current bill. –gs
solai @ 56
What a dumbfuck Rush is.
For decades, core EarthFirst!ers made their grubstakes for the year (or two, or…) on fire crews….some as smoke jumpers.
The Warner Creek Free State – and the forests it saved – relied on EF! non-violent activists who fight fires for the US of A.
Rush and Beck – you fucking cowards – what lives have you ever saved? Where did you make your stands – outside of your studio guards?
What creatures on the planet (save for your spawn) owe their lives to you?
We – “radical” enviros – were in NOLA helping.
We – “radical” enviros – are headed to SD (and there now, I believe).. to provide health care the same we did in NOLA after Katrina.
We – “radical” enviros – save lives and forests.
Where the fuck were Rush and Beck?
Where the fuck are they now?
When wil they show their pimply drug-addled faces in SD County?
Hiding under their beds wetting themselves – and licking it up.
Happily.
Let them come to San Diego.
Madame Blowhards, tear down your veils –
come see the destruction you celebrate.
Walk the streets, and tell San Diego why they had it coming.
Cowards.
While you stay away, “radical” enviros will be there doing what we always do.
Venerating life – and saving it.
Cowards.
see you tomorrow npb.
And, Jane- and others- not to forget the FDL tag line “bedlam is dreaming of rain” —
Check the top at FDL, if you never noticed.
~~
Somewhere high in the desert near a curtain of blue
St. Anne’s skirts are billowing
But down here in the city of limelights
The fans of Santa Ana are withering
And you can’t deny the living is easy
If you never look behind the scenery
It’s Showtime for dry climes
And bedlam is dreaming of rain~~
Okay, so it’s LA, not SD in the song, but… prescient.
Los Angeles Is Burning
OT, but that never stops anyone ;-)
Cassie wrote an article on Spy Kids, where the NSA seems to be encouraging kids to consider a career as a spy…
CTuttle @ 162
Right back attacha CT!
peanutbutter @ 156
Have this many people evacuated before?
Twain @ 158
Maybe Blackwater will be available to invade and occupy Cuba once they are kicked out of Bu’ushistan.
CTuttle @ 152
MMMmmmm….Paraguay.
;>)
GordonM @ 121
so did i … (clutches pearls) what a rude shock!
kathleen @ 166
according to KO, never in the peace-time history of the US.
Valley Girl @ 163
I always meant to ask about that line..! Very cool.
BobbyG @ 170
maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll lose interest in San Diego after the fires
QuakerGirl @ 160
i’ve been wondering about, um, arsonists
Cufford, “welcome” to the Lake.
I don’t recall seeing you before.
This year’s Santa Anas measured at over 100 MPH – never before recorded.
Please explain to us how that fact reconciles with your glib assertion “every time they make it up to be something like never before.”
Your assertion appears to be afactual.
Please reconcile your callous assertion with factual data.
Cufford @ 115
Hey Jane and other FDLer’s Obama and Hillary felt the flames, they seem to have seen the light.
Congratulations….more phone calls, more support for Dodd ,more pressure?
darkblack @ 168
No, I won’t click it… :P
kathleen @ 166
Firestorm 2003
I think this may be the largest at one time, though.
Blub @ 172
Katrina didn’t seem to scare them away from NO. My guess is that they will see it as another business opportunity, especially with so much of the CA National Guard (or at least their equipment) in Iraq.
peanutbutter @ 164
or setting them up for future spying on the parental units
madmommy — for you and your kids
bravo kirk @ 164!
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 173
The Santiago (Orange County) fire is by arsonists. One of the LA County fires was started accidentally by workers. I have not heard about the San Diego ones.
CTuttle @ 176
Go ahead all funny and no scary. DB is on good behavior for the moment.
marymccurnin @ 156
Which reminds me-another idiot caller on same radio show today talked about how happy she was Jindal won, how this is a progressive state, used progressive at least four times describing Louisiana politics. Only the fact that the little guy was in the back seat and is picking up words like crazy kept me from calling in and pointing out that she obviously does not know the definition of “Progressive”.
Peanutbutter.. the Witch fire is downed power lines, I think they’re saying.. Not sure about the Harris fire
Tancredo calls for arrests of college immigration activists.
from Think Progress by Matt
Hill Democrats were planning to hold a press conference today featuring three college students whose parents came to the United States illegally in order to promote the DREAM Act. But the event was postponed after anti-immigrant Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) called on the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency to arrest the three students:
“I call on the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency to detain any illegal aliens at this press conference,” said Tancredo, who claims to have alerted federal authorities about the well publicized press confrence. “Just because these illegal aliens are being used for political gain doesn’t mean they get immunity from the law. If we can’t enforce our laws inside the building where American laws are made, where can we enforce them?”
One of the students, Tan Tram, was recently in the spotlight when immigration officials raided her family’s home after she spoke out about U.S. immigration policies.
Kathleen , what is your point?
Do you live in the areas under threat from fire, or is this merely an opportunity for observations from the distant and disinterested?
Kathleen, today horses and pigs and dogs and cats smelled their burning fur and flesh before they died agonizing deaths.
Not news for you?
Tough shit.
What is your point?
Suzanne @ 179
Seems to me that the Nazis, Soviets, and Maoist Chinese tried that with considerable success. Bastards are always sniffing around anthro grads looking for recruits as well. Mostly they tell them to take a long walk off of a short pier.
DrDick @ 183
Yer right! Nice one, DB! 8-)
TexBetsy @ 183
Thanks-LL sent this to me on Facebook earlier today. I love this site! The captions slay me. I have a great pic of my mom’s uber-fat cat I need to post there.
Blub and PB, all but maybe three of the dozen fires burning are arson. The others were wind-related, mostly downed lines.
Blub, glad to hear you’re ok.
kirk murphy @ 187
kirk, that is borderline flaming and you know it.
Disagree with the message but do not attack the commenter.
TexBetsy @ 186
Tancredo does understand that just because one’s parents are illegal immigrants, it doesn’t mean their kids automatically are? Right?
TexBetsy @ 172
Katrina held the record with around 500,000.
peanutbutter @ 185
yes, sadly, i know some were started by arsonists as if there wasn’t enough trouble to go around … i was snarking tho on how convenient for blackwater and that i wouldn’t for a minute put it past them to torch something for their benefit.
DrDick @ 183
Nyuk nyuk
;>)
y’all in the deaniacs’ democracy for america?
so, everybody already seen and discussed this, right?
i got this email from DFA:
i wrote in gore, too.
gore is leading the dfa poll he is not included in.
wonder how clinton, edwards and obama rank?
will rank?
Suzanne @ 29
If W comes Thursday, it’ll be another thing he does for his own amusement. It certainly won’t do Californians or those fighting the fires any good.
Well, kids, I need to make an early night of it. Be excellent to each other, especially if you’re in SoCal.
Night EDP.
darkblack @ 196
I suppose the moment is up…!
More satellite pictures
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/10/satelli
te-pictu.html
This is quite the shot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2197303,00.
html
Photos from the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7058657.stm
Wonder why Limbaugh is not asking where Blackwater is? Will they help in California?
DrDick @ 200
Ditto…
Good night, pups.
I know how to borderline flame – and I know how to challenge calloous, insenstitive, jaded observations.
If that breaks the Lake’s decorum, so be it.
Bush To Veto Employment Non-Discrimination Act
from Think Progress by Amanda
endasign2.gif Tomorrow, the House is expected to vote on the Employment Non- Discrimination Act (ENDA). The bill, introduced by Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), would make it illegal to fire, refuse to hire, or fail to promote employees simply based on sexual orientation.
To obtain White House support for ENDA, lawmakers compromised by exempting “small businesses, religious organizations and the uniformed members of the armed forces” from the bill. Yesterday, an article on the right-wing site WorldNetDaily revealed that White House staffers had helped craft these exemptions:
“Americans For Truth has learned that a White House official has boasted to pro-family leaders attending a private administration briefing that White House staffers were involved in the negotiations to craft expanded religious exemption language for the new ENDA bill,” according to Peter LaBarbera’s Americans For Truth organization.
After the meeting, officials refused to say whether or not the President would veto the bill. But today the White House issued a Statement of Administration Policy making clear that despite the exemption compromise, “senior advisors” will still recommend that President Bush veto the bill:
madmommy @ 187
Madmommy I feel for you. These are the same people who didn’t think David Duke was that far out. He just got bad press. Was there anyone in this election who had traction and worth voting in?
I hear from family the 9th Ward had some flooding again as well as New Orleans East. For 175 years my family lived in the Bywater and I never remember it flooding. As the marshlands were depleted, the area began to flood.
As for the election my Repug family voted for Jindal but said they really wanted to vote for “none of the above”.
Night Kirk.
marymccurnin @ 197
not to diminish what’s going on around me, but I think that most of these evacs (fingers crossed) are very temporary. Most people will be back within days, while Katrina victims were basically cast into a diaspora.
Those who will need help in SD will be that subset of the evacuated who actually lose their homes.. I’m hopeful (and praying) that these won’t number more than the two to three thousand households they are now predicting. Even so, those people will be in for a very hard time. Expect hordes of insurance companies that refuse to pay up, hiding behind shrub’s “reforms”
Good night kirk.
I dont remember seeing rush filling sandbags at the last few natural disasters Ive attended.
I supposed, to him, a natural disaster means running out of Vi*agra with his underage Dominican whore.
TexBetsy @ 208
shrub wants Darth’s daughter to be discriminated against. How touching.
TeddySanFran @ 201
Especially not with the security arrangments that would be necessary. I’m with Garamendi — we don’t need this asshole prez coming down here for his little photo op, guitar plunking or even his brush clearing skillz.
White House cut warming impact testimony
BusChen Science…
Now where are the “facts” hidden?
Blub @ 208
Yet another human made disaster waiting to happen
Blub @ 130
in the aftermath
imvho
please keep an eye on a possible blame-the-arsonist ploy by the insurance industry in order to avoid proper payment of claims.
fires of this magnitude spread by cinders pushed ahead of the fire front
by winds generated by the fires and so can appear seemingly from no-where.
also,dry lightning starts many blazes in very dry conditions,seemingly from no-where.
lightning is the main cause of wildfire in the Northern Territory of Aust.
i am not minimising human causes but watch out for media scapegoating.
the circumstances from here seem to be showing the best of the American spirit and highlighting the callous incompetence of the government.
no water bombers?
out of date equipment?
paucity of equipment?
etc? etc? etc?
low taxes cost too much!
word cannot convey feelings.
any one who has seen the fire from Greece,Indonesia,Australia, know your loss.
rw, loohoo, blub, and all others affected: love and prayerful thoughts.
Blub @ 211
Yes, I’m surprised to see the news calling this another Katrina. Not by a long shot…
EvilDrPuma @ 196
If you are born here you are a U.S. citizen, period. Your parents’ status has zero bearing on that. Tancredo is FOS. But, we already knew that.
madmommy @ 190
MM, check this out…
“National powerhouses are losing all over the place. The team that’s sitting atop all the polls wasn’t even in the conversation for No. 1 a few weeks ago — and was utterly humiliated on national television nine months ago. Being ranked No. 2 in the country has pretty much become a recipe for defeat. And nobody has any idea who’s going to play for the national championship.
Except we all know it won’t be Hawaii.”
http://www.salon.com/sports/co…..3/tuesday/
QuakerGirl @ 209
Drainage is still a disaster, the pipes underground are damaged from the storm and the city says they don’t have the money and FEMA days they aren’t paying either. All the usual places filled up quick: Clearview at Earhardt, large swaths of NO east, the West Bank, Metairie. The brand new pumps the COE put in could not keep up. Then idiots drive down a street pushing water into people’s homes. Louisiana-the only state where you need “no wake” signs on city streets.
I hope no one takes offense at this evening’s snack. It is not meant to be in poor taste.
Suzanne @ 132
Hey, Suzanne
Thanks for the information on this. I’m really glad to know these folks are available and willing to do the training and put their safety on the line for others. Sounds like a great program, and I suspect the rate of recidivism among the graduates is quite low.
FunnyDiva
You live in FRESNO. That’s NORTHERN California. I’ve lived in SOUTHERN California for 25 years. Yes, this happens every year, but I’ve never seen it so intense or widespread. And even though I live in a pocket between the fires, the air quality is horrendous right now. We’ve NEVER had evacuations like this.
And, for any of you how have not lived in Southern California, the Santa Ana is this:
~~~”The Santa Ana,” By Joan Didion here
There is something uneasy in the Los Angeles air this afternoon, some unnatural stillness, some tension. What it means is that tonight a Santa Ana will begin to blow, a hot wind from the northeast whining down through the Cajon and San Gorgonio Passes, blowing up sand storms out along Route 66, drying the hills and the nerves to flash point. For a few days now we will see smoke back in the canyons, and hear sirens in the night. I have neither heard nor read that a Santa Ana is due, but I know it, and almost everyone I have seen today knows it too. We know it because we feel it. The baby frets. The maid sulks. I rekindle a waning argument with the telephone company, then cut my losses and lie down, given over to whatever it is in the air.
“On nights like that,” Raymond Chandler once wrote about the Santa Ana, “every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husbands’ necks. Anything can happen.” That was the kind of wind it was.
…..The winds shows us how close to the edge we are. ~~~
Excerpt from Slouching towards Bethlehem, © by Joan Didion.
no offense taken here, tex – i think it is most appropriate
TexBetsy @ 224
Not at all! Does it spray any water? We’ll take a couple dozen!
It was good to see the big tanks flying overhead to dump stuff on the fire earlier this afternoon. FINALLY we got some of the equipment we’ve been yammering for the last couple days.
another thing I am concerned about… long-term respiratory consequences on senior citizens in the fire area.. the entire metro’s been under a thick yellow haze of hickory for days now
TexBetsy @ 221
Seems entirely appropriate. As one whose well-being is annually enhanced by hardworking fire crews, I think we should celebrate them at every chance we get.
peanutbutter @ 226
totally pisses me off that it has taken THIS long for it to show up
did they have to fly in from iraq?
Blub @ 230
I’ve had a headache since Sunday :-( . Aspirin does no good. I’ve just been trying to stay inside as much as possible.
kirk murphy @ 189
Lordie Kirk . Just mentioning someone else wrote about what Clifford was saying. Odd somehow that you jumped on me but not Clifford very telling.
That article does not dismiss the pain, suffering and destruction. Focused on the history of the fires.
You have to know I do not enjoy harm coming to anyone. That response was quite the projection and totally unnecessary.
StarCraft Vo, if What’s-his-face has lived in NoCal for all 50 of those years, he is no doubt suffering from SoCal Derangement Syndrome (SDS). It affects them all at one time or another.
This one is even cuter.
StarCraft VO @ 226
Fresno is NOT in northern cali. It is just north of the grapevine. You might be able to call it southern central cali.
CTuttle @ 222
Hawaii is undefeated, no? The BCS is a joke. Do a playoff tourney like very other sport in Div 1. Two weeks of hype here for the LSU/Bama game in Tuscaloosa next saturday.
Lets all take one of them deep cleansing breaths pet taught us
Suzanne @ 232
Actually they had to fly in from fires up in LA County to which they had been loaned just before the fires started down here. This is all local stuff, not National Guard stuff.
Though we really are also hurting from lack of National Guard backup, who would be among other things helping with the evacs and such and freeing up the firefighters in clearing out neighborhoods under immediate threat, etc etc.
Valley Girl @ 166
’tis been on my mind, too, all
day — so glad you took the
time to type this one in!
now. . . slightly O/T, but i spent
the evening working on wacky-wastes
by this zany mal-administration. . .
. . .and, in another deconstruction of the lunatic-
largesse of this administration’s foreign policies,
i’ve derived a rather astonishing graphic, from the data
mentioned in a new york times article on state-
department spending for private security
contractors, in iraq — the scale of it is
jaw-slacking, if i do say so myself.
do take a look. you’ll wanna’ holler!
Jane Hamsher @ 78
Gah. Bad enough for muscle relaxers? Which is pretty good reason not to be here and in bed, if he has to use those. (seen way to many scripts for back injuries and a mix of anti inflammitories and muscle relaxers are the first used.
TexBetsy @ 224
Good choice, Betsy!
(((((firefighters!))))))
Mommybrain @ 235
*splort*
Although, given how we drain the water from up there, sometimes it’s hard to fault them :-/
madmommy @ 223
My parents despised local politics. They would say Louisiana wasn’t really part of the US, it was another country. Do you have a memory of Mayor Morrison?
Mad Dogs @ 145
Aaaaaaugh! It burns usssss! Teh hypocrisy, it burns ussss, precioussssss!
FunnyDiva
Blub @ 227
That is really a major problem with these fires, and not just for seniors. Here in Missoula, we had weeks of stage 1 and even a few days of stage 2 air quality warnings. Hurts the elderly, kids, pets, and everyone else. Best to avoid strenuous activity until it clears out some.
peanutbutter @ 230
I had that for the whole month of August.
madmommy @ 235
Kaufmann makes that very argument, the early bowls could be the Playoffs… Made sense to me! 8~)
mhpcr @ 219
Seconded.
-GSD
aliasofwestgate @ 239
1) I am often here on anti-inflams and occasionally on muscle relaxers. More often on a non-narcotic called traumeel.
2) I am a huge proponent of chiropractic adjustments.
3) There are many other things to do for back pain, depending on the type of pain. Hot and cold compresses, TENS unit, posture changes, etc.
TexBetsy @ 233
Bad linky.
DrDick @ 247
And watch out for possible systemic reactions to poison oak (from inhaling its smoke). Can be VERY terrible.
PB: have you tried a nasal rinsing? Might soothe your head….
DrDick @ 249
http://images.google.com/imgre…..l&sa=G
kathleen @ 136
The leadership started with grassroots, was picked up by Dodd and simply copied by Obama and Clinton. I guess the focus group results finally came in.
How can anyone reasonably call Clinton or Obama a leader?
Edwards/Dodd — Real Leadership
QuakerGirl @ 245
I do. He was mayor when I was small. And who was the DA that questioned the Kennedy murder? It was during Morrison’s tenure.
Suzanne @ 236
Except those in the fire zone, unless they have AC or a filter mask.
QuakerGirl @ 245
Shep was before my time. I got here durring the Marc Morial administration. Been here over 10 years now, longest I’ve ever lived in one place since the day I was born. Perhaps therapy is in order.
peanutbutter @ 237
We also had that problem here this summer. Damned useless Iraq War and the damned useless idiot that got us into it.
Lying sack of sh*t General Michael Hayden Director of the CIA is up for part 2 of the Charlie Rose interview. This is just a finish up apparently.
So far he has said that no one in the Inspector General’s office at the NSA had any problems with its warrantless wiretapping. He says FISA did not meet the needs. Doesn’t say why he didn’t go to Congress for changes to FISA.
Calls his undermining of the CIA IG Helgerson was just a management review that he had wanted to keep low key. Again doesn’t explain why he thought it was his business to investigate his own IG whose business it is to investigate him.
Takes credit for decimating al Qaeda in Iraq. Supports the surge. None of this has much to do with the CIA but has a lot to do with him being a Bushbot in the mold of General Petraeus.
He blinks a lot and has a facial tic. Probably comes from lying all the time.
My bottomline from listening yesterday and today: He is a military man of limited strategic vision with no real understanding of policy or the Constitution. Whichever Democrat gets elected in 2008 should fire his ass immediately.
kathleen, as moderator i dealt with it – no need for you to stir the pot.
(((Kirk)))
Blub @ 97
And cover up that cod piece?
(whistlin)
MarkH @ 252
I could get behind the ticket…!
marymccurnin @ 256
Jim Garrison
San Diego County has incredible topography- hills, mountains, canyons, etc. surround most neighborhoods. It is not a concrete jungle as much of LA
IF Humans are going to live here_ this will happen>
Laura Doty @ 250
I know it helped me this summer when I was the one sucking smoke.
To bed for me. Hoping that everyone in harm’s way stays safe through the night, and tomorrow will be a better day. Goodnight all!
If there’s another thread like this tomorrow or later this week, I may try to respond to the technical questions raised in the last thread. I didn’t mean to ignore Kirk’s queries earlier this evening, but I suspect any response that’ll convince him would take more than a cursory treatment.
check out
http://ulmo.ucmerced.edu/~west…..erling.pdf
for some cool brain food, if you’re so inclined.
Gnight folks.
g’nite Blb and Mmmy. Sleep well.
(waving to all the leaving sleepy pups)
Laura Doty @ 267
from me too
Kirk and Kathleen are both exceptionally intelligent and each offers valuable perspectives. I like them both very much. rwcole and all the others in the area of the fires, I wish you well. G’nite All.
With regard to Dodd’s FISA filibuster, let’s recall that the question Biden was asked was:
Obama and Clinton need to say that they will not only support the hold and the filibuster, but that they will join it. If they are being asked if they support the Dodd filibuster, well that’s swell. But it’s the wrong question. (TradMed, duh!)
Will they join it? That means filibustering right alongside Chris Dodd, reading the phone book, the DCMadam’s phone records, the Ken Starr report — whatever it takes.
night hackworth
Suzanne @ 261
Did not know you were the moderator, but I have been attacked by Kirk before. I am tired of it.
rwcole @ 263
This really is a major issue that we need to confront here in the West. We are having similar problems here in western Montana with more and more people moving into the woodland interface. This makes it much more difficult and expensive to fight these fires.
Blub @ 268
I’ll be looking for your comments.
excellent point teddy
Night MM.
hackworth @ 273
Thanks for trying to fix.
As I said earlier get to safety “better safe than sorry”
Nite, Blub and MadMommy!
kathleen @ 273
I’ve been Late Nite Moderator for the past 9 months. Now you know.
I give the pups a lotta room here at late nite but there are certain lines that will not be crossed on my shifts. Flaming is one of them. Rascist comments are another.
Now you know.
Night Blub. Stay safe and no heavy breathing until the air clears.
Love and healing to friend TRex, and to all who are in a state of instability and confusion in this SoCal crisis. Goodnight and Peace.
marymccurnin @ 141
Damn, thought we had buried them wetfarts.
Raht bastids, all of them . . .
dr dick
there is no part of san diego that is safe from the incursion of these fires
there is no policy that i am aware of that would minimize these problems other than moving all the humans out of the entire area
What about the huge Navy Base in San Diego …..?
Think rain
:)
Suzanne @ 282
And excessive exclamation marks…! 8-(
Did anyone see John King on CNN say that Duncan Hunter said that the Governor and the President were doing a great job and that everything that could be done was being done. What does he expect Duncan Hunter to say about a GOP Governor and a GOP President. Good grief, Bush had to be prodded to come on Thursday. It was note elsewhere today, the some of the National Guard and their equipment used for fire fighting just happens to be in Iraq!
“If it’s this big and blowing with as much wind as it’s got, it’ll go all the way to the ocean before it stops,” said San Diego Fire Capt. Kirk Humphries. “We can save some stuff but we can’t stop it.”
All things in moderation, dear CT! (She said, with a chaste smile!)
TexBetsy @ 208
Compromise, cajole, compromise some more, throw transgenders under the bus, lobby, pull the bill apart into two bills, lobby some more, compromise again — and then, surprise! Lucy pulls the football away with her W veto.
Same shit, different day. And DeeCee Democrats still act shocked!
The best combo is the hot/cold compresses, chiro care and the meds for the pain. All together it works best.
i wish i could use the chiro angle for my own pains but all it does is irritate the implants inside to even worse heights of pain. But i’m looking into semi periodic massage when i get my finances evened out a tad bit.
Jane?
Tell the Theropod to take it easy and do not try to push it to get back too soon! *grins*
I just posted this from yahoo news:
Guatemalan migrant fights U.S. for his wages
For nine years Pedro Zapeta did nothing but work and save.
The illegal immigrant from Guatemala bought no baubles for girlfriends, never traded in his bicycle for a car, never drank a beer in a bar and ate only at the Florida restaurants where he worked as a dish washer for $5.50 to $7.50 an hour.
Then two years ago, with $59,000 collected in a black sports bag that had become his bank and another $3,000 stuffed in his pocket, Zapeta decided he had enough to return to his poor Mayan mountain village and buy a piece of earth on which to raise a family and build a home.
Zapeta, whose mother tongue is Quiche and who hails from the chilly highlands of Totonicapan in west central Guatemala, has spent two years fighting to get his money back, but he doesn’t have much time left. He has to leave the United States by January 24, 2008, under a voluntary deportation order.
“How is it possible that they want to take so much from me? It’s not possible, it’s not fair,” Zapeta told Reuters.
Zapeta’s Quixotic struggle against the U.S. government has been embraced by both sides of the passionate U.S. debate on illegal immigration.
(more)
the santa anna has already broken in coastal areas
we now see an onshore flow at the coast
the fire will backtrack to the east tomorrow
coastal areas appear to be safe
xargaw @ 289
Barbara Boxer, in the Senate, questioned why over 50% of the CA NG equipment is in Iraq…!
The people, the animals, the destruction; at times like this, I turn to ballet tapes: ABT modern and historic Fonteyn/Nureyev. I hope everyone finds their peace. Bless.
darkblack @ 289
Think rain and
More than rain,
Down to the very core
of light at the center
of it All.
That is such a lovely piece, DB.
CTuttle @ 295
And what percentage of what’s left in CA is in workable condition? That’s the issue here in TX.
rwcole @ 283
There actually are mechanism in place for minimizing (but not eliminating) the impacts of these fires. Unfortunately, as was pointed out upthread, there is considerable resistance to implementing them. The critical pieces are annual small-scale controlled burns and thinning of the brush and deadfall. There are also things residents of the most exposed areas can do to reduce their vulnerability to fires. Getting people to do them is a whole other issue. There in SD you actually have a bit more leverage with city zoning laws, than we do here where the problem is largely in rural areas. You are correct, however, that if you live in a fire zone like SoCal or western Montana you have to expect to deal with fires on a regular basis.
What can we do to help out those in San Diego?
Should we be pushing FEMA for more manpower and equipment? Should we be reminding our congresscritters that we are all just (insert disaster of location) away from being in the same spot?
darkblack @ 289
beautiful.
thanks
CTuttle @ 287
No, that’s RBG’s beef…Suzanne is just the hammer.
And a legitimate beef it is too, young man!
;>)
darkblack @ 289
Think and pray for rain
Laura Doty @ 291
But, I feel so nekid…! ;-)
rwcole @ 287
As a native of this area, I actually disagree with this. There’s quite a bit of preventive stuff that can be done, including clearing brush around your house, burying power lines, engaging in controlled burns. There’s a good deal of infrastructural stuff that can be done, too: properly funded fire and emergency departments so that equipment can be properly maintained and updated, and so on.
Laguna Beach is a pretty good example. They were devastated by fires in the late 90’s — including subsequent mudslides from the bare hillsides. The last fire that went thru there did not nearly do the damage that the previous ones had.
Anyway.
TexBetsy @ 300
I hear ya, excellent point!
xargaw @ 291
He had to be prodded to come? No, no, no, that’s fine, stay the hell away. Keep FEMA out too, while you’re at it.
:-P
kathleen @ 166
never. I’ve been here more than 50 years and have seen a lot of fires up close and personal and I’ve never seen anything like this before.
More on B vs C…
Castro claims Bush could spark WWIII
Perhaps a different approach to reformed relations might work…
Cubans go to unusual lengths to post blogs
dr dick
the situations are quite different
san diego is a desert there we have no trees other than those that people have planted in their yards
we dont have a lot of dead trees lyin around
were dealin with brush
Kevin Hayden @ 154
Um, don’t know what years yer talking about, but I got a name from my past:
Mike Johnson
‘76 HSU or so? Maybe ‘78 . . .
Suzanne @ 304
No, no…proper funding of local firefighters and emergency response organizations would do far far far better than FEMA (and I speak as one who used to work with these guys prior to 2000 :-( )…
CTuttle @ 308
Gee, I thought you’d kinda like that!
CTuttle @ 310
Yes, and having our National Guard back here and properly equipped, also.
db, you comparing me to (gasp) hot tub delay?
peanutbutter @ 304
I should point out that the Ipai and Tipai (Duigueno) Indians native to the are burned the chaparral annually and had far less severe fires when the Spanish arrived. Spanish immediately began suppressing fires (a knee-jerk European reaction to fire) and the fires got progressively worse. We have now compounded that problem. Global warming doesn’t help either.
Suzanne @ 279
Thanks, Suzanne. It’s irritating to see TradMed ask the wrong question, or followup not at all; I framed the question purposely and purposefully. An amateur.
“Join” means standing up alongside.
“Support” means saying, “that’s nice.”
peanutbutter @ 309
You are right. Having lived in Carlsbad in the 80’s and 90’s, I remember how after several of the major fires there was always a big push to replace shake roofs, cut back the foilage and plant foilage that does not get tinder dry. But, as you can imagine, those that escape the fires seldom heed the advice. After the big Laguna fire, many of houses that were spared were lost the following Spring in the hillside slides. I wonder what Spring will bring to Southern Cal?
I e-mailed CNN today and reminded them thet “their Glenn Beck” stated that many “America haters” lost their homes to the fires. I suggested to them that they follow up on this by reporting what percentage of the victims were “America haters,” and further suggested that it might be an interesting subject for Dr. Sanjay G. to take on: i.e. would the amount of assistance and support from FEMA likely have an effect positively or negatively on the America-hating victim’s opinions of our fair republic? I am still awaiting a response from them, although I know they are busy at the moment.
rwcole @ 309
There is still a lot of dead brush there that needs to be cleared. Same techniques would work with only minimal modification. The idea is to systematically reduce the available fuels (dead, & diseased brush and trees), so that the fires do not burn as intensely.
Technicolouryawn @ 319
standing on chair clapping
Flynt Leverett on C-Span’s Washington Journal this morning
http://www.c-span.org/homepage…..ies&Co
de=WJE&ShowVidNum=9&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=206&Rot_W
D=&ShowVidDays=100&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30
Tomorrow morning on C-Span
http://www.c-span.org/
FOREIGN AFFAIRS
U.S. Middle East Policy
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice testifies at a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on U.S. Policy in the Middle East. Chair-
man Tom Lantos (D-CA) is expected to focus on the U.S.
role in regional security, as well
as Iran’s nuclear program and the upcoming Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations.
Juan Cole was on Democracy Now Today
http://democracynow.org/
Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007
Middle East Analyst & Historian Juan Cole on U.S. War Plans Against Iran, Turkey and His New Book “Napoleon’s Egypt: Invading the Middle East”
TeddySanFran @ 318
That’s nice, but, you’re hardly a rank amateur…! ;-)
larue @ 313
No, about 86-87, his name was Rod. I forget the last name. He was mentioned in Time Magazine at the time.
Thanks, CT.
Suzanne @ 316
I believe Tom DeLay works the other side of the line, ma’am.
;>)
i dont know about dead brush
i dont see it
people who live out east on acreage need to clear the area around their homes for self protection_||
for those of us on smaller lots theres not much to clear
darkblack @ 326
aha… and here i was thinking it was because i am a republican
rwcole @ 331
Be sure to clear out the Shrub on Thursday…
Time for me to get some beauty sleep so I don’t scare the students tomorrow. Best wishes to all the SoCal Fire Pups (takes on a whole new meaning here), breath shallow and no smoking. I will dream of rainy windless days for you.
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 176
I’ve been quietly keeping silent about that.
Never mind the Santa Ana’s are as predictable as the tides for the most part . . . still . . .
Seems it’s time to focus on the humans who need help, and then, we can hammer the Fed’s, Blackwater (when do THEY come in for matrial law after these firestorms are over?) and anyone else culpuble for neglience after wards.
Right now, victims need support . . . what can we do?
A million evac’d by dawn, likely . . . wow.
Sweet dreams Dr. Dick, don’t let the Islamo-fascists haunt your sleep.
-GSD
Aloha, DD!
sleep well Dr D
Beck backs off, claims it’s a joke.
Kevin Hayden @ 334
i’ll laugh when he is canned and not before
Lots of issues about controlled burns, apparently. Ranging from air pollution thereby generated; loss of control (and thus turning into a proper and threatening wildfire), possible destruction of some types of habitat, etc.
Controlled burn
Suzanne @ 329
It’s not about ‘Republican’. Conservative thought holds no terrors for me.
It’s about Right and Wrong.
Kevin Hayden @ 327
‘K.
Condolances to all . . .
the brush here appears dead in the summer and comes back to life in the winter with the first rain|
it holds the soil against mudslides so its not a great idea to kill it all||
im not an expert but coming from a big forest state (oregon) i see a totally different problem
Suzanne @ 338
Quite…
darkblack @ 337
sorry, db, i forgot to use my close snark tag :)
I unnerstand, Suzanne. So maybe an X-rated laugh will do in the meantime.
Kevin Hayden @ 338
Hmmm… Maybe he shoulda followed his on advice… “…let me give you a little piece of advice: You have to engage what I like to call ‘your brain.’”
What say ya’ll? ;-)
ok, kevin, i’m laughing at just the title.. roof sex
darkblack @ 289
i kept looking for the hidden cheney & couldn’t find him
CTuttle @ 333
One woman said goats took care of brush around her home in Cal
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_7263201
SAN DIEGO (AP)—The goats saved the day.
A Ramona woman said her small ranch was spared by the wildfires thanks to her goats who munched dry shrub around her property.
“My neighbor was on TV and said there’s only one house still standing in the area, and that’s mine,” Therese Nerat, 63, said from an evacuation center at the seaside Mission Bay Park as her goats whinnied in the background.
Nerat, who breeds goats and raises chickens, ducks and geese on her ranch, said she rushed out of her home Sunday when the Witch Fire raced across communities northeast of San Diego. The blaze has blackened about 164,000 acres and destroyed 500 homes.
“I ran out and started throwing goats in the car,” she said. “I got seven out, and 40 are still out at the ranch. The rest of them are OK, thank goodness.”
Neighbors have been stopping by to feed her animals, and firefighters trucked in water for them because flames
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melted pipes in the area, she said.
Kevin Hayden @ 346
*gasp* I’ll never look at a chair in the same light again…! 8~)
kathleen @ 351
Nice story. Up here in N. Ca, folks can rent goats to chew down the shrubbery to a safe level.
Channel surfing tonight….. before I could flip to the next channel…..Beck was going on about “farmers and those who live on the land know you can’t change mother nature”
So…. yes there are basics of the natural components of the land but man has been changing the land for centuries. Just what is a damn or canal or standard suburban subdivision?
I like goats… they are kinda funny! and very useful!
Laura Doty @ 352
Hey, Goats will eat anything, right…? ;-)
has anyone heard from burns? he was supposed to fly out monday iirc and that irvine fire was near his house from what he said sun nite in the thread
Kevin Hayden @ 347
707! I’m getting strange looks here at work! Must close the door before watching things like that.
Oh, my, that’s good.
goats make great tacos
katymine @ 352
And just what was the Dust Bowl all about, hmmm, mr. bleck?
FunnyD
larue @ 335
sorry, snark was inappropriate.
rwcole @ 354
they can cook too?
kirk murphy @ 207
Nah, yer a hoss on this one . . . tiresome is tiresome.
Today is all about humans and their tragedy.
Not politics, aside from the national scene.
But hey, that’s just the way I was raised.
Respect for the moment, for others in need.
Do the right thing.
RECOGNIZE what the simple right thing is, and DO IT!
Other stuff sometimes should take a back seat.
Bless those who are suffering in harm’s way in So Cal, with no support . . . a million or more perhaps, by dawn’s light . . .
And a blessing for Myrtle June, and the news that the AZ winds calmed, and the news tonight, the winds may have calmed somewhat, in So Cal? A blessing, to make it so . . .
CTuttle @ 352
Especially a chair with a little damage on the arms. *snort*
rwcole @ 359
How do they fold the tortillas with those little hooves?
katymine @ 354
It required massive river changes to permit the existence of LA and Las Vegas. And what about dredging and filling? What about Holland’s elaborate dikes?
Beck, on the other hand, is impermeable to the facts of life.
larue, i dealt with it. no need to bring it up when i’ve already dealt with it.
Well, goodnight everyone. Stay safe and well.
Instead of Boston Legal, ABC is doing a 20-20 special on the fires right now.
Laura Doty @ 300
a little known fact about Aust is the reality of it’s own god.
this god has no doctrine,no book or church or official acolytes and anyone who says it has or claims to represent this god,is lying(through their teeth).
this god has two attributes.
rain is one of them.
the acknowleged ritual for this god can be seen at the end of the drought.
if you are lucky,you will see,in the dusty paddock,knee deep in the bleached bones of his herds and flock,the farmer,his head raised to the heavens.tears or fat drops of rain streaming down his face,crying,loudly to the roll of the thunder and crack of the lightning
SEND ‘ER DOWN HUEY.
the other attribute of this modest god is
a sense of humour
and
said farmer could quite easily find himself standing there,up to his eyeballs in water!
(note: one exclamation mark)
dayam, kevin, i’ve blocked abc ever since that fake 911 movie they did.
decision, decisions
peanutbutter @ 220
Callous a bit, doncha think?
And it ain’t over yet. The FireStorms.
Property hasn’t been stolen yet by the fed’s.
And the rains and the mudslides haven’t started. Yet.
Sympathy, empathy, and an understanding of history would be good qualities to bring to this situation methinks . . . I’m just suggesting.
I lost a whole comment…..all about goats…
I used to have a goat dairy for 12 years when I lived in Oregon. Goats are picky eaters, they are related to deer and are browsers eating brush, bark and leaves first. Grass can kill them if it is wet. They are fun, have great personalities and can climb like crazy.
katymine @ 372
And as chefs…?
Funnydiva2002 @ 225
Dollar late but I recall from my San Mateo Days the camp in La Honda . . . late 60’s and 70’s or so. Lotta juvie’s I went to school with ended up there. It was a labor camp if I recall correctly.
Hmm . . . discipline thru honest labor . . . what a concept . . . work or be kept longer.
Mexican firefighters helping in California return to Mexico to fight blazelarue @ 372
In case you are not aware of it, I live within two miles of one of these fires.
Happy now?
sorry, katy, looks like we had a hiccup there for a minute
katymine @ 368
when I was in Maine for a few years for the CG, I lived in a house where the yard had been taken over completely by bamboo. The neighbors kept a goat for a pet. Me, having a momentary bright idea, asked if I could borrow the goat. After I explained my situation, the nice people just laughed and laughed… told me the goat would help me out by eating the petunias but would never eat something as tough and unsavory as bamboo!
Suzanne @ 375
my latent paranoia was rearing its ugly head…. thought I might have been banned
Valley Girl @ 227
Wondered when someone would quote this.
It’s SO prophetic . . . and illustrative. *G*
Nice post . . . ma’am.
side effects from the rx you were on, katy, the paranoia will fade
all right, I must lay my weary head down for some rest… stay safe, firepups…
Guess what I did on my Freedom day? [allowed to drive after surgery]
katymine @ 376
The obvious choice is drove so i’m going with stayed home.
katymine @ 383
Way to go katymine!
katymine @ 381
Went for a long walk? ;)
Nite Coastie.
peanutbutter @ 229
PB, surely you know the winds kept fixed wing aircraft grounded early in this fight?
Best to you and yours. This is the most horrid it’s been, it seems. I’m sorry I didn’t realize you WERE down there in my previe post . . .
katymine @ 383
Gave Rush a Limbaughtomy?
Called Bush and demanded your kidney back if he doesn’t comply?
Na… I drove…. my youngest son called and his car broke down…..he let his AAA membership lapse so guess who had to play Mom….. tow, make sure it gets there, buy new battery at Costco and new starter…. poor starving college student gets early Christmas present.
Totally wiped me out….. AND I fit in an appointment to the oncologist too…
Do you know about renting car batteries from Costco? If you buy one….. take it back before the three years and they refund it on a prorated basis. So you basically rent batteries for a few dollars.
dang, katy, that is an awful lot for first day out.
and thanks for the costco info on car batteries
larue @ 388
We didn’t get them till today, then the winds didn’t let them be deployed until late afternoon.
I’m right under this crap, with OldCoastie. Where are you?
TeddySanFran @ 273
Therin lies teh fuckery you speak of!
I can’t comment….. just see that wheel spin around and hang…..
rwcole @ 296
At last . . . be well hoss . . . or hossette?
Just be well with you and yers. . .
katymine @ 394
Yeah needs a new post. Too many comments on this one.
1,636 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Anyone out there heard from oklahomakiddo…any word on his daughter?
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CAREOF EACH OTHER!!
rwcole @ 358
“But you can’t ride them home.” (Ron White, Chili Boy)
NorskeFlamethrower @ 398
They’re ok. Last thread, OKK visited.
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 360
I’ve done the same . . . I shoulda let it go . . . sorry I singled you out . . . habit I have of slinging before thinking . . .
new thread
peanutbutter @ 375 . . .
Happy now?
I realized after post . . . and said so . . . sorry to have added to your suffering . . . best to you and yours.
Suzanne @ 366
Catching up slowly Suz, catching up slowly . . .
A couple observations from a long-time San Diego denizen, safe from the fires in Coronado.
Chandler was right about Santa Ana winds, in a fictional, pre-airconditioning way. Didion’s observations are pure hyperbole. The winds are a nuisance and create a fire threat, but they do not torment the human soul. That job falls to Bush/Cheney.
After all the posturing by Ahnold and Michael (”Katrina was Brownie’s fault!”) Chertoff, Brian Bilbray, and Duncan Hunter, Bush is coming here.
Haven’t we suffered enough?!
Unless he means to pitch in, like a pet goat, to clear the scrub brush that fuels the fires. Hey, something he’s good at. We could keep him busy until, say, January 2009.
Cufford @ 115
Well, Cufford, for a 50 year resident I’d think you would have some institutional memory. If you actually take a look at the history of California wildfires you’ll find that this “annual occurance” – just like clockwork…is much more a RECENT phenomenon…especially at this scale. Three of the top ten fires in terms of burnt acreage are either occuring NOW or happened this fire season.
#1 – Cedar Fire (280,278 acres) – Oct 2003
#2 Zaca Fire (240,207 acres) – July-Aug 2007
#3 – Witch Fire (196,420 acres) -current Oct. 2007
#4 – Laguna Fire (175,425 acres) – Sept. 1970 (at the time the largest by far in California’s recorded history)
#5 – Marble-Cone Fire (~178,000 acres) – Aug 1977
#6 – Day Fire (162,700 acres) – Sept. 2006
#7 – McNally Fire (150,670 acres) – July-Aug 2002
#8 – Old Fire (91,281 acres) – Oct. 2003
#9 – Harris Fire (72,000 acres)- current Oct 2007
#10 – Moonlight Fire (65,000 acres) Sept. 2007
#11 – Sawtooth Complex fire (61,700 acres) – July 2006
#12 – Ranch Fire (47,240 acres) – current Oct 2007
So of the top 12 fires, three are still burning and five have been in this fire season. The largest (Cedar) and the #8 fire occurred in the same fire season (Oct. 2003). Two of the top 12 fires ( Day and Sawtooth) occurred in Sept. 2006. Ten of the top fires have occurred since 2002!
These firestorms are getting MORE frequent and more of them are occurring each fire season. Historically this is a recent phenomenon. I lived through the Laguna fire. Hundreds of homes in my neighborhood (Crest) east of El Cajon were razed. Everyone at the time thought that fire was an absolute oddity. Nothing like it in scale had ever been experienced. Only in the last few years are fires like these “something to be expected”.
I would have expected that someone who was a long-term Californian not to be promulgating such nonsense.
Something has changed with the ecology, climate and/or resources needed to stop these fires. It’s not simply a matter of more development in these areas, since the total acreage of the burns are going up and up. And one would think that with more homes in these areas the ability of firefighters to reach these sites and use the hydrants in subvisions would go up.
Fern @ 132
In addition several colleges also have fstudent ire crews that form in the Summer Fire Season that are on call for these disasters. Sadly they usually disband by October 1st. with only a handful serving in the campus fire departments. I wonder if they’ll reorganize these and if their schools will give them “leave”.
This just in-
Rush Limbaugh has been banned from entering the firezones because bringing buckets of lard and flammable gas into the area would pose an increased risk to the emergency crews.
DrDick @ 149
But this really doesn’t reflect the reality of much of the So Cal chaparral landscape. There really isn’t a forest per se, except in the mountainous areas. Much of the chapparal IS low brush. The idea of “thinning it” ignores the fact that it is, essentially, the “undergrowth” where there are no longer any overstory. And the few trees in the chapparrel are not “fire-resistant” in the normal sense of the word, but are actually fire-stimulate