Valerie Plame Wilson will be at FDL live to discuss her book, Fair Game, at 10:30 am PT/1:30 pm ET. Hope you can join us for what promises to be a lively and intriguing discussion.
Valerie Plame Wilson juggled a lot in her career at the CIA. Who could ever have predicted that betrayal would come from the White House?
Since senior administration officials whispered “Valerie Plame” and “CIA” in the same breath to half a dozen journalists in 2003, some people have not very subtly suggested that her work couldn’t really have been all that hush-hush if she had an office job, not to mention blond hair and little kids. “She was not involved in clandestine activities,” Robert D. Novak, the syndicated columnist who first published her name, wrote earlier this year in his dueling memoir. “Instead, each day she went to CIA headquarters in Langley where she worked on arms proliferation.”
There are lots of she said-he said moments in the Plame affair, matters on which an impartial observer can only conclude that, well, both sides have a point. But this is not one of them.
Before her retirement in 2006, Wilson spent more than 20 years in the CIA, including six years, one month and 29 days of overseas service. We know this because the agency, in a bureaucratic blunder, put it in an unclassified letter about her pension eligibility that it later tried desperately to recall, and that she has included as an appendix to “Fair Game.”
We also know that she worked on the operations side, the part of the CIA that runs agents and covert activities, rather than on the analytical side, which tries to make sense of all the information flowing in….
Imagine when, in her mid-20s, after a first CIA tour in Greece under diplomatic cover as a junior State Department official, she gave up her diplomatic passport and any public affiliation with the U.S. government and switched to being a NOC. Part of the transition involved coming home to the United States, ostensibly jobless, and moving back into her parents’ house while studying French. How many 20-somethings still living with Mom and Dad fantasize about saying, “Actually, I work for the CIA”? In young Valerie Plame’s case, it was true — and she apparently didn’t tell a soul. When she became famous a decade later, her dearest friends were stunned, and she feared they might not forgive her for all those years of lying.
Of course, for the crazed wingnuts among us, the CIA’s totting up of her NOC credentials won’t mean a thing. For the 80 percent of the country that isn’t loony, it is yet more proof that the Bush Administration has a host of problems, one of which is a treasonous act against our national security. You choose.
Crooks and Liars has the video available of last night’s 60 Minutes interview with Valerie Plame Wilson. The look on her face as Katie Couric asked her about potential damage from her outing was telling — all the more so now having read Larry Johnson’s insights on threats to her safety after the disclosure. I thought this particular quote summed things up precisely:
Asked if she thinks the president was in on this, Plame Wilson tells Couric, “I don’t know about that. But I, like most other Americans, saw President Bush say on TV that he would fire anyone from his administration found to be involved in leaking my name. It turns out the President is not a man of his word.”
She hopes her book will allow her to clear the air. But even this, she says, has been a bitter fight and her manuscript has the scars to prove it: CIA censors blacked out 10 percent of the copy.
So much so that, as the LATimes book reviewer notes, whole pages are blacked out of her memoir.
If much of that is hard to tease from this book, it’s hardly Plame’s fault. As a former CIA employee, the author had to submit her manuscript to the agency’s censors for review. They insisted on savage and — to this reader’s eye, at least — punitive redactions that seem designed to prevent publication. Plame and her publisher, Simon & Schuster, which reportedly paid a seven-figure advance for the book, took the CIA to federal court and lost. Rather than go meekly into the censors’ night, Simon & Schuster elected to publish Plame’s manuscript as she wrote it, with the censored passages and words blacked out. The effect is particularly Kafkaesque when she records her dealings with the censors, much of which is stricken. To replace at least some of the redacted material, the book contains an 80-page “afterward” by Washington-based journalist Laura Rozen in which facts about Plame’s life and career are gleaned from interviews and public record.
Frankly, I think it was a good decision on the publishers part to go to print this way, and to have Laura Rozen fill in the already publicly known information for the gaps. It just makes the hypocrisy and the danger of the whole situation all the more visibly obvious, doesn’t it?




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1
Good morning Christy!
Morning everyone. Need more coffee…
Good Morning Christy. The Washington Post also had a column about Valerie’s book but of course they mentioned that she donated to Gore in 1999.
g’morning christy
The look of pure fury on Plame’s face when she closed her eyes before answering after Katie asked her obnoxious: “well, really weren’t you trying to get outed by having Joe write that OpEd piece?” was just amazing to watch.
I was just as mad as she was. I knew Katie “Seals Rock” would do something like that. I knew she would pick the wingnut side and hit her with it. Fortunately, Couric is pretty stupid so her attacks were pretty easy for Plame to handle.
Good morning, Ms Christy – how are things in the mountains this morning?
And let’s not forget the Katie: “well, you’re pretty partisan now, aren’t you?” So I guess that makes it OK for the Republicans to out you. Unreal.
Toby at 7 — Coldish this morning. It’s in the 40s, and it’s finally feeling like sweatshirt weather. I filled up the birdfeeders yesterday, and this morning they are full of birdies stocking up for the cold front moving into the area.
It’s going to warm up later today, and we’re going to try and get out and enjoy it, because Fall is taking over. Have been watching the bluejays try to bully their way around the feeder outside our sunroom this morning. And the cardinals are having none of it. It’s been fun watching…
dogmatta at 8 — I thought that partisan question was a little weird, too. I mean, honestly, is Valerie supposed to be grateful that her entire asset and agent network was exposed by the Bush Administration and her work brought to a halt? Hello?!?
CHS -
Was delighted to read in the LAT review that the redacted portions actually show up in the text of the book……..good on the publishers for handling it in that manner.
Why can’t we step away from the MIC, the national security state?
I believe that we (someones) are a super power and intend to dominate the world and will do it ultimately through militarism.
It appears that we have are have almost completed the depopulation of Iraq. Something like 20% of the people are displaced. The cancer rate is something like 30% from the DU and chemicals we have rained on them.
Their infra structure has been destroyed. It looks like we will be able to take what we want from a hobbled nation – their oil.
And we will do it to Iran.
I don’t believe most nations are about conquering the world as the US is. Even an India Pakistan war is essentially local and THEIR nuclear weapons are targeted at each other. The big boys don’t care as long as they don’t drop on THEIR homes. In fact, I would think that a nuke war between Pakistan and India may be what they want… more decimated nations easily plundered.
Nations may fear getting on our list of evil… but that is when they have something we want or threaten to attack the US as North Korea did… if it believed IT was going to be attacked. It acts as the US does… it wants to be strong so it won’t be attacked. And we now have a policy of pre-emption. We’re not going to wait to be attacked… we’re going to make a case for attacking first. And to foment the appearance of threat is a no brainer for the CIA… just stir up anti Americanism… a few terror attacks on American posts in their country or American warships in their waters and bada bing… we need to put that down before another 911.
The MIC is running our gov, poisoning our minds, and after the rest of the world. And that would be a world with half the population. Genocide is the way to go.
Watch for it. You’ll be seeing more and more of it.
Frank Rich up on Morning Noise.
From the E&P piece on Plame:
love the qualifier of CBS, in the form of Katie Couric….
Weird? Not for Couric. I mean she’s an apologist if not outright cheerleader for Bush. I heard on the radio somewhere or read that the Admin froze Couric out — wouldn’t give her an interview — after she did an interview with Laura and actually asked her a REAL question. About abortion.
After Couric became an anchor, they eventually relented and let her interview the Preznit. Since then, she’s been a rock solid cheerleader.
So I was waiting for Couric to ask some obnoxious right wing talking point question of Valerie.
As a lawyer you can appreciate the question. It’s one of those where the answer doesn’t matter — it allowed the right wingers to say: “See, she and Joe wanted to be outed so they could go to cocktail parties and appear in a Vanity Fair photo shoot.”
Questions like:
“Sen. Bedfellow: When did you stop beating your wife?”
Or: “Isn’t it true Congressman that you like having sex with small children?”
I try to put myself in the shoes of an average person hearing about this story. Wouldn’t there be a huge disconnect, the very idea that the government would betray one of its own secret agents? And one who was working on nuclear matters? Too much for people to grasp maybe.
Couric is such a repulsive person. It’s hard to look at her. Even her face looks like an ugly distorted mask next to Ms Plames which is open and clear and honest (and much prettier as well).
The Wilsons were republicans I believe, buying into the BS of free enterprise and personal responsibility and let’s get wealthy and farm the world for America. But they got screwed because they believed in democracy and fair play. And then they got trashed and so they dropped the R and went over to the other side. Not much choice in American. Twiddle Dee or Tweddle Dom.
The whole system is broken. Your dems are proving that nicely.
All hell is going to break loose. The oscillations are getting pretty large, and exceeding the resonance of the system.
Watch it collapse.
That publication decision — to go with the black redactions — reminds me of the Black South African newspapers under apartheid, who at times did the same thing to make it clear that their reporting was being stifled.
When the whole front page was blacked out, you knew there was a big story the govt censors didn’t want talked about. The black ink pretty much insured that everyone talked about it.
When Valerie was talking about people going after her and her kids and not the leakers’ (Rove’s, Cheney’s, Scooter’s), Katie’s “Except we KNOW Karl Rove’s wife doesn’t work for the CIA,” was brilliantly smacked down by Joe “How do you know that, Katie?”
Compare what will happen here today with what went on on 60 Midgets last night. I may have to miss it but it will be an amazing read.
Sander at 17 — Joe is related to Pete Wilson, former governor of CA. So he comes from a Republican background certainly. No idea what Valerie’s political background is. But I do know in talking with her that she is far more interested in discussing facts and long-term considerations than political machinations, which is what one would expect from someone who is working on national security matters as opposed to politics.
Or at least, what I used to expect from professionals on national security issues anyway…lately, not so much.
I’m looking forward to the special Book Salon later this am with Plame Wilson.
The only times I watch local news are when we have disasters like now. The wind continued to roar all night and I’m checking in on the fires. I’m in the valley just below where the Canyon Country fire is.
I’m not a fan of wind even when there isn’t mass destruction.
And, I’m not a fan of a President who is not a man of his word.
This morning gives me a different perspective of Holding Their Feet To The Fire.
What we do know is that a lot of people are doing things “under cover” and we need to step away from a society with so much secrecy.
We need an open society, not a secret one.
We don’t even know what our reps are thinking or who is influencing their thinking, or how they are informed.
We see only the tip of the icebergs.
The title for this thread reminds me of the movie “The Magdalene Sisters”.
OK, sure, the Cocaine Importation Agency (CIA) has done a lot of awful things in our history.
But that’s a different debate. You don’t out agents. It’s a felony for a reason. GW’s father made it a crime after agents were outted in the 70s.
I’ve read that Plame was outted because her group was on to the Busshie’s plan to IMPORT WMD’s into Iraq so they could be found. I read that the team importing them got blown up by “friendly” fire.
But this could make sense given her assignment — which was tracking WMD’s. And let’s face it, our best friend Pakistan was the HQ for nuclear parts sales under this Preznit’s watch so we can’t trust anything they do.
outing Plame was treason.
Frank Rich discussed yesterday’s column with Joe and Mika on Morning Noise. Well worth a listen if they put it up on the website and filter out all the frackin’ background noise.
Quick takes: the civilian leadership has let the troops down…we’ve a long nightmare of shame coming…it’ll all come out…many more bodies buried…corruption in Iraq and here…investigative journalism can work if you get out and talk to the working assistants, etc. not the dinner party circuit…gives props to McClatchy [Knight-Ridder]…we got it wrong [NYT]…WaPoo got it wrong…like the 1840s gold rush in Nevada….
Frank Rich forthright this Monday mornin’ comin’ down….
egregious @ 16
….and they were worried over Monica. This administration is “criminal.” All the prior blemishes on the Oval Office by its occupants, put into one, do not match the “egregious” acts of these criminals. To out a CIA operative for political reasons and discredit her husband for same, is a treasonous act. Now to find out the executive undermined important programs, for selfish reasons. Real American values at work here? This is a simple proposition that simple people should understand.
I think David Crosby has it right, no body bags coming home by the thousands, yet. This is disgusting and little said in the MSM , even C-span this morning……….
I particulary enjoyed the manner in which Mr. Wilson slammed Couric’s question about Mrs. Rove and Mrs. Libby not being covert agents. He sure told her!
“As it should be.”
Elliott @ 26
committed by gutless cowards.
At the age she was committing to being a NOC–totally putting her life at risk for the security of this country–the BushCo Chee-knee crowd had “other priorities.” Now they run around with their $15,000 Italian-made dove-killin’ phalluses calling themselves history’s actors.
They are beneath contempt. History will judge them so.
I am so looking forward to reading the Plame-Wilson thread today. I don’t have much to say or ask, having read the excellent coverage here and at TNH, but, frankly, I need the encouragement to keep standing up, and Valerie and Joe Wilson provide that, and provide a first-class model of what it means to be responsible, active citizens in our democracy. I look at them, and I realize our country is not lost. It’s just in dire straits. What we have is too valuable to us and to the world to give up.
I sometimes wonder if the traitorous leakers ever think that some of Valerie’s revenge-minded co-workers might try to get a little “frontier justice” for their crimes. I am not suggesting violence, but just the sort of discrediting through revealing THE LEAKERS’ secrets(and we know they have them: hidden assets, hidden predilictions, etc.) I can’t imagine feeling safe for what they did – but then, I can’t imagine their lack of honor overall.
Can someone PUUUUUHLEAZE explain to me how these farkin criminals instead of rotting the rest of their miserable lives away in jail [edited by moderator] are STILL free and in control of our Government? What do they have to do before it reaches the tipping point? Fer Crispies sakes, these same people I-M-P-E-A-C-H-E-D William Jefferson Clinton for fibbing about a BLOW-JOB…from an adult WOMAN!!! Not even any toe tappin in a toilet stall. When did they slip the acid into the whole nations drinking water supply? WHY ARE WE PUTTING UP WITH THIS!!!!!
I’ve watched the interview and, unfortunately, looked through the comments at CBS. I have had only a couple of opportunities to see Katie Couric in action, in clips. I asked myself, how would Ed Bradley have addressed these issues? I think Katie was trying to ask questions she thought others might, those she has seen mentioned in the press. It’s too bad she did not, or could not, see the many other more neutral questions available from the fray. The narrative offered a number of statements that were clear in terms of Valerie’s covert status and her career–”Valerie is/was thus and so”, so it was not left unaddressed, and I liked the visual of their office, with Joe’s side full of photos, etc from his career and Valerie’s side relatively empty. Katie just doesn’t have the chops for a 60 minutes interview, and it’s too bad. I think hard questions would have been welcomed by the Wilsons because no matter what, they would have dug into the truth. Katie’s approach was not journalistic, it was inflammatory, and it seems like a waste.
Finally, you can certainly how Joe and Valerie have effectively served our country with grace, strength and conviction in their responses and their poise.
Christy,
The republican “philosphy” has move very far from “conservatism”.
It took a while for many republicans who were conservatives to see how their party was highjacked and even the greedy capitalists among them have had to swallow some very large weird as pills. Now they wake up and see basically a religious quasi fascist party with no interest in democracy and certainly for the people.
The republicans are all about a very small class of people… the very wealthy who want to do whatever they want, disregard laws and acquire wealth and power.
We’ve seen a silent coup d’etat here and we now have a going along to get along congress controlled by the vichy dems.
Good morning Christy!
Hope you had a great b’day.
Every time I see Joe or Valerie it just shows what class acts they are. Aside from being true patriots, they appear real and dignified people. That is something that uninformed people must see.
It will be interesting to see where their careers lead them next.
g’morning all
usually on monday I am busy earning…today I took the morning off so I could spend as much time as possible reading the comments and questiions from firedogs and to Mrs. Wilson, it will also be interestiung to see what public names show up to offer their gratitude and support
I would also like to make a request Christy, it might be a good idea to provide a link to the day the ambassador took questions here at the lake, he raised some important issues, answered some question he’d been surprised weren’t considered, and offered then the problems that we would be facing concerning Iraq and those predictions have been shown accurate
quite a rediculous and moot ruling that doesn’t allow valery to repeat data that has already been officially confirmed
Christy Hardin Smith @ 10
Valerie Plame Wilson worked with the CIA’s Division of Counterproliferation starting in January 2002. From that time on she travelled AT LEAST SEVEN TIMES ABROAD to over 20 foreign nations while under cover on CIA operations. [She may have worked abroad under cover before this, in fact, we know that she spent time in Brussels as well as in Greece…and her Pension Records indicate at least several years actively based abroad in a covert status].
http://justoneminute.typepad.c…..Covert.pdf
The fact that she served abroad within five years of her exposure meant that she clearly qualified as a covert agent coverede by the Intelligence Agents Identity Protection Act.
The Wilsons are honorable people, that seems clear.
It’s all been a smear campaign because they are truth tellers.
Never the truth.
Ask George Orwell, Aldous Huxley.
War is Peace.
Herein lies, t(r)eason when in the interest of political expediency “Reason,” is replaced by the servile prejudices of policy makers, using the “executive powers” of the presidency of the United States and our military, not for the benefit of American society and the general welfare of the governed, but rather to guarantee corporate oil’s stranglehold on America and profit, while enabling America’s oil addiction,” Iraq’s occupation and subjugation of its right to self determination, to western interests is a continuation of existing policy, patently inconsistent with the American values. The outing of a CIA operative is treason. The “fabrication” of intelligence to justify a pre-emptive military strike, is treason. Then to pardon the ” an enabler”
“It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.”
Thomas Jefferson!
I thought Plame/wilson is an American citizen with rights under the constitution. No “standing” before a court, because of “state secrets?”
Sounds Fascist to me!!!
I’ve been a political junkie for at least 20 years and the CIA leak case is one of the most consequential stories in a generation…and God help me but every time I see her my first thought is “she is smokin’ hot!” and I need to pause for a second or two and reorient my thoughts upward. Valerie Plame: A leading cause of cognitive dissonance.
JPL @ 4
And did they mention that Joe Wilson donated to George W. Bush that same year? I bet not!
I’ll be interested to see how the audiobook deals with the redacted parts.
I’m also very happy to know that Joe and Valerie no longer live in Washington and are in Santa Fe. Although Rumsfeld is also a resident, there is great healing energy there and beautiful wide open space. If I ever get to take my recently cancelled trip, I will wave to them as I drive through on my way to Taos.
zennurse @ 44
Several minutes of blank tape. Or a muffled voice.
cinnamonape @ 39
OMG, how are we not beyond this issue yet? Is it still necessary to defend her on this? Even CBS treated it as a done deal.
egregious @ 45
elevator music
twolf1 @ 47
How about Joe humming the Star Spangled Banner?
OT elevator music… Do elevators still have music? I haven’t heard any for ages…
dan @ 42
zennurse @ 46
Heh.
twolf1 @ 46
Elevator music from HELL
dogmatta @ 8
Couric is a idjit. For the record, Joe Wilson donated to both Gore and Bush in 1999. And Joe has supported several Republican and Democratic Congressmen. He was quite BIPARTISAN prior to the attacks made on him in 2003. He actually supported Bush’s build-up of forces in Kuwait as it provided leverage to return the UN Inspection Teams to Iraq.
I would tend to think that the shift to supporting Democrats was because they didn’t defame and denounce his revelation about the Niger fake contracts. The Administration did that, the Republicfans and their media cronies were the ones that ballyhooed her CIA connection and carried the water for the WH and the NRC. Republican Congressmen and Senators unleashed a major character assassination upon Valerie and Joe.
So no wonder they shifted to the Democrats.
NY Times review
I just read the act here:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind…..ection_Act
It seems very cut and dried to me.
Bush commuted Libby’s sentence – but the sentence was for lying – not for the act.
Why was there no action on actual act itself? (well, that is obvious since it was an inside job)
Can Valerie Plame (and indeed, the rest of her team and by extension, the American People) ever get justice on this?
RE: the comment response @ the 60 min site, it is mostly gibberish from some insomniac freeper wannabes, no substance, but there are some stretches of dialogue from “Get Smart”. Is this a new Repug tactic, appealing to boomers? Brilliant??!!
Her column at Huffpo had not been freeper swarmed as of this am, and was gushing praise.
Toby at 54
Obstruction. Of. Justice.
Because they obstructed justice, it was not possible to create a case.
Guys, com’mon…the information and comments here are worse that normal.
A few things:
1) Valerie Plame has changed her story a few times since mess was uncovered. Why do people keep leaving this piece out of the story.
2) Valerie was not a covert agent, covert agents do not walk through the front doors of CIA headquarters. Having worked formerly with Military Intelligence, what she is refering to is you never confirm your job function to anyone. Anyone with a Top-Secret Government clearance is taught the same thing.
3) Valerie and Joe were well known democrats, they attended many democratic political functions while working for the CIA. Covert operatives do not do this.
Also, Couric is not a Republican sympathizer as many of you have suggested. Trust me, the Pubs don’t like her much either. Right now, she is trying to save her job (low ratings), so she is making controversial moves.
Also, to say that Joe and Valerie served their country with “grace, strength and conviction” is garbage. People with these qualities would have quietly tried to repair what was done, and moved on. You don’t start doing rounds on the political talk shows, and you certainly don’t start throwing bombs at your superiors.
You want to talk with people who have “grace, strength and conviction”, go talk with some of our injured soldiers from Iraq. Even though many are missing a leg/arm/eye (or worse), they still say they would have done it again. They do not throw blame around, and they continue to believe in what they were fighting for.
egregious @ 45
It will put Nixon’s 18 1/2 minute gap to shame.
here’s a link to the day the ambassador live blogged here at the lake, quite memorable
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ls-on-iraq
might be a good idea to post that up top, I think if Joe is not busy he’ll stop by to give his wife support, I doubt she needs it but he might show up never the less
egregious @ 56
on this I respectfully disagree, I think there was an incredible case and I think the only reason fitz didn’t file charges is because he doubted he could get past executive priviledge
on that I fault him it’s not the verdict it’s the process and it is important for the adminsitration to claim executive priviledge for the record.
I do not give fitz the same respect most people here at the lake give, I think he dropped the ball and I know America is the worse off for it
Methinks we are going to have VERY busy mods during the Plame thread.
Amazon sales rank: 50
egregious @ 56
And, since we had and continue to have a Justice Department which sees its mission as being the Department of (Obstruction of) Justice, then nothing happens, right?
RevDeb @ 61
the trolls are already posting some incredible lies…you guys are gonna have your hands full.
i know everyone is looking forward to valerie plame wilson’s visit this afternoon – me too!
but there are a couple of interesting (although less exciting) things happening this week in your congressional hearings update:
The big hearings for the week are Tuesday’s HJC hearing on selective prosecution (Seigelman) and Rice’s testimony before the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Wednesday. Here’s my selected short list:
Tuesday, 10 am – House Judiciary
Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security
Hearing on Allegations of Selective Prosecution: The Erosion of Public Confidence in Our Federal Justice System
Tuesday, 1 pm – House Judiciary
Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security
Hearing on Genocide and the Rule of Law
Tuesday, 2 pm – House Foreign Affairs
Subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia
Oversight Hearing: Iran Sanctions and Regional Security
Tuesday, 2 pm – House Oversight and Government Reform
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and National Archives
Hearing on Cybersecurity: A Review of Public and Private Sector Efforts to Secure our Nation’s Internet Infrastructure
Wednesday, 9:30 am – House Foreign Affairs
Oversight Hearing: U.S. Policy in the Middle East
Witness: Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State, U.S. Department of State
Wednesday, 10 am – House Budget
The Growing Costs of the Iraq War
Wednesday, 10 am – Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
To hold hearings to examine ways to build an effective terrorist screening system.
the complete list has more details and hearings on the human cost of global warming, mortgage practices, the future of radio, Uranium Mining on the Navajo Nation, energy employees occupational illness compensation program (cold war heros), bioterrorism, GAO’s report on the Status of NOAA’s geostationary weather satellite program, highway bridge Inspections, FBI strategic plan, air force strategic initiatives, nominations, hidden 401K fees, aviation and the environment, commodity futures trading commission, university research in the patent system, global fight against HIV/AIDS, international accounting standards, bank practices (CRA), several global warming related hearings, investment needs for surface transportation, agriculture disaster conditions, home health care, extractive industries, railroad safety, veterans employment services, sweatshop conditions in the toy industry in China, drunk driving programs, arbitration fairness, U.S. security assistance to Mexico, safeguarding of federal funds, North Korea six party talks, and lots more.
RevDeb @ 61
Oh brother, I mean Oh, Sister. I was just thinking the same thing.
I hope that people are polite and appropriate. I’ll be watching.
Kurt,
Bush and Cheney and Libby were well known Republicans. Can we dismiss anything they say as outright as partisan propaganda?
Or is that tactic only OK to use for those who support Bush and his endless war disasters?
-GSD
perris @ 64
That’s what prompted this observation. I hope we’ve got a full crew armed and ready.
like obvious clockwork, first kristol spews his war call and then cheney spews it again;
man, they will do anything and everything possible to bring our military to the state of non existance.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..r-22-2007/
You want to talk with people who have “grace, strength and conviction”, go talk with some of our injured soldiers from Iraq. Even though many are missing a leg/arm/eye (or worse), they still say they would have done it again. They do not throw blame around, and they continue to believe in what they were fighting for.
What a crock of shit.
perris @ 69
All the more work for the military arm of the Republican Party, Blackwater.
perris @ 69
With Blackwater being kicked out of Iraq they have to have some place to send them.
RevDeb @ 68
they might want to put an ip permit on the known ip’s and go through the new ones before they are allowed to be published
might be the only way to keep the trolls from taking over
dogmatta @ 15
You must have missed Couric’s questions of her being a partisan.
raven @ 70
Raven, said troll forgot to put an asterisk on this quote.
*Please exclude John Kerry and Max Cleland from the blanket assumptions about wounded and injured soldiers.
Can’t wait to read Valerie Plame Wilson’s reasonable, rational responses to those questioning her patriotism and her position within the government. Seems to me that the more open we are in allowing other voices, the more that truth will surface.
I have full confidence in this remarkable woman’s abilities to handle wingnuts.
GSD @ 75
Not to mention the Vote Vets and the thousands that support them.
Kurt @ 57
Kurt,
This is the first I’ve heard of this. Obviously you didn’t mean to imply that Joe Wilson worked for the CIA. So what Democratic Party functions did the Wilsons attend while Ms. Plame-Wilson was stil under cover? Please be specific. Please cite your sources. Please do not attempt to B.S. us. OK? Thanks.
This is sort of OT or maybe not. I recommend a book to the readers here called “Absolute Friends” published in 2003 and written by John Le Carre. It is fiction of course, but prophetic, and this late in the game it is only history.
Let’s hope that at some point Ms. Plame may be also able to tell her “history” without the redactions.
SanderO @ 23
amen!
dan @ 42
A feature which surely made her one of the most effective and disarming assets we could have working for us. And I mean disarming in more than one sense of the word.
musicsleuth @ 77
No no, they, and I, are phony vets and soldiers.
Kurt @ 57
New around here, aren’t you?
It shows.
Meanwhile, as Bush pretends to care about endangered species, his whole world is coming undone.
*Russia is standing by Iran and is talking like an old adversary instead of a partner.
*Turkey is rushing troops to the border of Iraq after attacks by Kurdish rebels.
*Polands freakish, radical rightwing, Bush loving twins have been roundly smacked by the electorate.
*The rightwingers new dreamboat Sarkozy is getting a divorce and is now playing the field.
*US credit market is now showing signs of weakness beyond housing, to include credit cards and auto-loans.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
Kurt @ 56
In what ways is this relevant. “Changing stories” can also mean that one gives additional facts or information.
Do you have the photos, or something? How do covert agents get into the CIA Building? That is after all where they are briefed on their operations. How do you KNOW that Plame didn’t use that method?
To anyone? Not even your sources and fellow agents? Clearly you have no Intelligence Agency experience, as you would know that many Intelligence agency employees are quite public. Covert agents are known within the agency to those in the need-to-know, and are allowed to inform those in their immediate family and others in the “need-to-know” chai. Please see the Intelligence Agents Identity Protection Act for who can be told a covert agents identity BY THAT AGENT!
As far as her being a Covert Agent see that Act and post #39. The CIA has acknowledged her covert status, it was presented in the legal documents in the Sentencing Hearing for Libby.
See post #51. Can you state one “Democratic Function” that she attended prior to being outed by Rove. Libby, Armitage, and Novak? I understand that they did attend some Republican inaugural functions, though.
And while a person is COVERT they assume the role of the individual living a normal life…and that would include participation in the political process as a citizen. She is a former Ambassador’s wife. And he was a contributor to the Bush (as well as the Gore) campaigns.
It’s a testament to both Valerie and Joe Wilson’s character that they continue to speak out — and have such a willing audience — despite the high-powered and underhanded tactics this admin has thrown on them. Bravo to S&S for publishing the story redacted bits and all. It helps me understand that the budget deficit will be easier to overcome than the moral and intelligence deficit the Shrubbery will leave behind.
Please,
Do not feed the trolls. It only makes them angrier.
It ain’t worth it.
I am not a covert agent becasue someone on the internet says so.
RevDeb @ 87
Tried to edit this but the software only allows one edit per thread . . .
I was also going to say that lizard brains are incapable of taking in new information.
perris @ 60
Perris, there would have been a storm of greymail that would make it incredibly difficult to show intent. IIPA requires showing intent, not just leakage, and Fitz is the kind of prosecutor who goes for airtight, solid prosecutions that result in jail time. He likely couldn’t make it airtight, not that he didn’t think there was a violation.
But I don’t think we’re done with this; if something more comes up, becomes uncovered in the course of time, Fitz still has the authority to continue to investigate.
I ran across a tidbit yesterday that I am still digesting, the kind of thing that might yet be part of the puzzle that allows Fitz to build an airtight case. Happened to be digging into Gonzales’ attorney’s background when I ran into information that suggested Gonzo’s attorney Terwilliger had represented a client in the matter of national security. Who was that? When was that? And why did he get interviewed as Gonzo’s replacement, only to become his attorney? was he already inside the fence??
Yeah. There’s more info out there. It’s only a matter of time, and a matter of persistence on our part.
RevDeb @ 87
the fact that this troll posted right wing rubbish long ago exposed bold faced lies tells me his is a tool and they might have more tools on their way.
I would do an ip permit rather then an ip ban today
I would go through all the posts that are from new ip’s
cinnamonape @ 85
cinnamon, don’t even bust a gut over this, just go back to the many posts either here or at TNH (The next Hurrah), or maybe to the Libby Trial stuff. It is all there, “Kurt” knows it, too.
This might be a good time to remind commenters about the Preview button.
Write.
Preview.
Ask yourself if Mom would approve before hitting Submit Comment.
(or am I being naive?)
RevDeb @ 87
But it’s so much fun to piss them off!
I just got a phone call from Andrea Mitchell and she is drunk off her ass!
Demi, I never even noticed the preview button.
Thanks.
-GSD
demi @ 93
I asked my mom if she’d approve of demi moore, she said no.
good to c u demi
Kurt @ 56
Really they continue to believe in what they WERE fighting for? Tell me how many really believe that there were WMD’s? Or that there was Al Qaida working with Saddam in Iraq before the invasion? THAT was what they were TOLD they were fighting for!
And if you actually talked with some of these men you would realise that, although they desperately WANT to find some reason for being sent to Iraq that is noble and good, they are increasingly cognizant that just like WMD’s, it is all bulldada. When the number of killed and injured Iraqis that have resulted from the aftermath of the invasion is far greater than the total number killed during Saddams regime, then they should justifiably, question the reason for this war to have ever occurred.
demi @ 93
My mom is at least as irked by the current political situation as I am. And she never used to think a political thought.
I’m a big fan of Laura Rozen’s writing – have been for years. IIRC, it was a link from Laura’s blog, war and piece, that first brought me to fdl.
I’ll miss the special book salon because I’ll be covering jury selection at former Alaska state Representative Vic Kohring’s Veco corruption trial.
I’ve created a blog with a friend, who – unlike me – thinks Kohring has been framed, and will get the charges dismissed by Wednesday. I’m preparing to spend two weeks at the trial.
FDL and Christy, Jane and Marcy, are the inspirations for this attempt.
Hey everybody! I just checked the Soros website and we can now get our checks via direct deposit or a visa check card!
(somebody stop me!)
g’ morning all… coffee is ready – nice and strong this morning…
winds are strong this morning and the skies are very smoky… the Santiago fire is still 5 miles off (cars are parked pointing out and pets are packed).
keep your fingers crossed that the winds let up a bit.
Kurt @ 57
even if this is true, i don’t what it proves.
are you saying that democrats are all known to be cia operatives, and so by revealing herself to be a democrat she was revealing herself to be a cia op?
Good luck Coastie — I’ve got my finger crossed for you.
Ed*ard Teller @ 100
good to see you Ed*ard Teller, I haven’t seen you in a while but maybe we get here different times, howz thingz?
Ed*ard Teller @ 100
Congratulations, ET, and godspeed. You are an inspiration, will be watching.
cinnamonape @ 98
You know what bugs my ass about trolls using the “troops love their missing limbs as badges of honor!” crap?
Those troops are likely suffering from a combination of PTSD and cognitive dissonance and are struggling to justify what happened to them — it’s rationalization, sublimation, reaction formation, all coping mechanisms to deal with what is little more than mind-and-body rape, a theft of will and function for a lie.
My guess is that your mom is very proud of you. You stand up for what you believe and you treat friends like they want to be treated.
And this is a very good thing for this world.
I was just trying to help the mods for later.
RevDeb @ 86
But I want to make them angrier…it makes them sound even dumber than they are!
ET, that is inspirational! Love the team blogging with someone who has different views. Please keep us posted on the trial.
(((((OldCoastie)))))
Ed*ard Teller @ 99
Good luck and good work!
thanks for the links, ET!
OldCoastie @ 102
Oh My!
More than just fingers crossed for you. Do take care and don’t wait until the last minute if you have to leave.
smapdi @ 101
Stop. *grin*
OT..but interesting read on “warming”.
At the Poles, Melting Occurring at Alarming Rate
WaPo
perris @ 105
Busy, missing the kids – both gone to college now, staying warm. It is 29 degrees F, with a sprinkling of snow on the ground. About to load snow tires into the back of Ms. ET’s Subaru to get them put on at my favorite tire shop before I head into the big city.
ya’ know, sometimes I wish I had a cute little clapboard house but right now, red tile roofs and stucco is looking like a very good choice.
OldCoastie @ 102
You didn’t tell me it would stand a spoon. I’m praying that the winds slack off, and wishing you a safe journey if you have to go. {{{OldCoastie}}}, take care of you.
perris @ 90
Good idea. I think that we owe Valerie the courtesy of having those questions from those that are regularly on FDL presented. Since it’s also likely that many regulars are going to ask questions having a flood of trolls that she must wade through is simply too much. And it’s additionally rude to regular contributors to this site who have serious questions.
It’ll be tough enough for her to answer many questions given the CIA’s “gag order”.
Christy has a new thread up
ET — I love the idea of blogging with someone who thinks the exact opposite on the trial. We had that quite frequently in DC with some of the folks who were there with MBA — and with Byron York who was occasionally covering things for NRO. Sometimes it was jarring when you’d talk issues and facts, but sometimes you’d find yourself in agreement — and the dissonance between the two times had no real rhyme or reason. Odd stuff…but useful to understand a number of things on all sides of the trial.
This issue came up in the first place because the CIA asked the DOJ to investigate the leak and outing of an undercover agent. The CIA would not have done this if there were no case. It is stupid to argue that Plame was not undercover when CIA has said that she is. Don’t you think they would know? DUH
I thought it was good that Couric brought up the criticism because it gave Plame a chance to refute them publicly. I suspect CBS will get inundated with complaints for just airing the interview.
perris @ 60
browny at 121 — They already are — before the interview even aired, right wing blogs were trying to portray it as a lovefest, softball interview and Couric as a tool of the left. It’s all about spin these days, isn’t it?
Maybe FDL could compile some questions from commenters ahead of time to consolidate duplicates and cut down on some of the pressure on the server. Then they could take additional questions live and have more time to chat with us. Just a thought.
chun yang @ 32
If some of her co-workers were hurt or worse…I wouldn’t have a problem with suggesting violence. I’m sure Mr. Novak walks on the streets at night w/ his head on a swivel!
I know this is gonna sound shallow, but I just gotta say. Ms. Plame, I wanna say as respectfully as is humanly possible…WADDA FOX!!!!!!!!!
Ray at 122 — One of the writers here worked at the SDNY during the time that the Lynne Stewart case went through — and she can address particulars on this better than I can. But it’s my understanding from people who have known Lynne for years that she made a greivous error in her conduct on that case and did, in fact, overstep from being defense counsel to being a message courier. Trying to paint Fitzgerald badly for enforcing the law on that case is inaccurate based on the facts as I know them — both from prosecutors and from defense counsel who knew Lynne well.
Sometimes, even good people make mistakes. And when those mistakes constitute a violation of law, they often pay the penalty for them. As they should.
selise @ 102
LOL! Which would mean that no Republicans are willing to put their lives on the line in COVERT OPS…I suspected THAT!
BTW Anyone can go on the Federal Campaign Contributions sites and find scores individuals that work in the CIA that contribute to political campaigns. Simply type in CIA (or Central Intelligence Agency) as the “employer”. Many large scale Republican donors are in there, including AB “Buzzy” Krongard (and his brother Howard).
Valerie Plame’s contribution did not mention her CIA reference (it used her “cover organization” of Brewster-Jennings – an organization only exposed as a CIA front when Robert Novak, using his knowledge from the leak of her CIA status also revealed this information).
What is a message carrier?
You mean I can’t carry a message from someone I see in prison?
Why is that unlawful?
Valerie Plame Wilson is a true American hero.
In the Lynn Stewart case it would have to be proven that the “message” she carried was about criminal activity.
I don’t think that was proven.. or even alleged.
Sander at 129 — Because the messages were about potential terrorist and other actions by an extremist group in Egypt from a convicted terrorist in jail in the US that was Lynne’s client. Which makes her a co-conspirator under the law if she’s knowingly carrying the information to groups who might use it for violent purposes.
Lawyers are not supposed to participate or enable their client’s criminal activities. If they do, then they are criminals themselves. Period.
Sander, as I said, LHP knows much more of the facts on this than I do at my fingertips while I’m trying to run down 10 other stories at the mment — because she was there at the time the case was going on and I was not. But my understanding from speaking with LHP as well as other NYC attorneys who knew Lynne was that there was quite a bit of information that pointed to her involvement, that she overstepped with her conduct, and that a great deal of the information in the case was not made public for national security reasons but that some of it was quite damning.
As I say, though, others who are NYC attorneys — a number of whom read here — can fill in the blanks in this with a lot more detail than I can at the moment…
Steve-AR @ 114
Also some serious meltdown for these Poles, too….the Kaczynski twins. But maybe they can go back to being child actors.
http://www.canada.com/topics/n…..mp;k=13563
“We have failed against a wide front,” Kaczynski said in conceding defeat late Sunday evening. “
Or perhaps it was because of their “wide stance”?
“Young urban Poles, as well as an estimated one million Polish voters, who have moved to the British Isles to find work, were anxious to defeat Kaczynski’s governing party, one western diplomat in Warsaw said Sunday evening. “They think the Kaczynskis are doing the wrong thing by constantly punching Europe in the nose.”
“An estimated 55 per cent of eligible voters cast ballots, the highest since Poland’s first democratic elections in 1989. The Kaczynskis’ Law and Justice (Pis) won in 2005, when there was a turnout of just 40 per cent, despite getting less than 30 per cent of the vote. Pis was able to form government after striking a coalition deal with two small right-wing parties.”
The Polish people were tired of taking the PiS!
The Lynn Stewart case was prosecuted to send a message to any lawyers who might take an aggressive defense.
This was stated by the Lawyers Guild and I believe Lynn Stewart and the apparently crazy blind sheik was the perfect chase to do this.
Of course participating in criminal activities is and would be a cause for prosecution. But I would bet that they never proved it and it was all inuendo.
I’ll contact LHP about that one.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 127
Thanks. I guess I have a layman’s appreciation of message carriers. In San Francisco they were my favorite aspect of downtown street life.
What has troubled me about the case is that there’s entirely too much secrecy about just what the infraction actually amounted to. Yeah, I know, it’s a matter of national security, or some such jibberish. So the people of this open democracy are to be perpetually denied the facts. And in the matter of Lynne Stewart’s indiscretion, I have absolutely no idea what she was actually accused of, or of what harm to the State she is guilty of. And I have done my research. And discovered an inordinate amount of bafflegab from “the authorities”.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 127
One tiny correction: I think Christy was referring to me, and I was already a long time in private practice by the time Lynne Stewart got prosecuted. I was not at USAO SDNY at that time.
So does anyone here know what the specific nature of the charges Lynn was convicted of?
Is the evidence secret?
Is that possible?
SanderO @ 135
SanderO,
I’m in complete agreement with you on this one. As far as I can see, the prosecution of Lynne Stewart amounts to nothing more than outrageous bullying and fascistic intimidation on the part of the State.
I respect Christy’s view and her C.V. in this regard, but I’m also going Missourian on this matter. I want some one to “show me”, don’t tell me what the State’s position might be if they would only deign to declasify their “reasons” for us mere proletarians. This is either a democracy, or it isn’t. And the way the Stewart case was and is being handled makes it pretty plain that we’ve pretty much put democracy down in this country.
I’m getting completely fed up with the constant fraud that we all put up with from our government. We need to turn around this insane “unitary executive” secrecy mindset before it completely destroys the entire concept of “America”.
Ray Duray @ 136
Ray, there is no secrecy about what the MANY “infractions” consisted of. It was all laid out in open court. Publicly.
And she didn’t just do it once and she didn’t get caught just once. The first couple of times she got caught doing it, Pat called her in told her she was violating and and warned her that it was a crime. He told her that if she was having trouble complying with the terms of incarceration as the were written, she should go back to the Bureau of Prisons and negotiate a set of rules that she could work under.
IIRCm Abdel Rachmann’s rules were changed. maybe even more than once(?)[hazy on that].
Instead of complying with the law, she flagrantly carried another message and seemed to be daring them to do anything about it. I don’t kno whow they could have avoided prosecuting her. She was scofflawing right in their faces!
SanderO @ 131
Yes it was. Maybe you should read the transcripts.
I met Lynn and her career as a lawyer does not lead to the conclusion that she supported terrorism.
She was framed.
secularhumanizinevoluter @ 126
I promise to make up for it with a substantive question during her Book Salon later, but–I used to think Ms. Plame was an attractive woman. After seeing that interview, wow was that an underestimate. After seeing that interview, I wished I’d had a covert weapons program of my own for her to try to derail…
(Note to our NSA friends: the above is a joke based on the observation that Ms. Plame is hotter than you or anyone you know.)
What was she carrying?
This is very strange. They new she was carrying what amounts to terrorism plans and they didn’t snag the terrorists?
Can you tell me what she conveyed?
SanderO @ 135
WRONG! Lynne Stewart was prsecuted because she was flagerantly violating Abdel Rachmann’s terms of incarceration. Abdel Rachmmann controlled the same Egyptain terror group that murdered all those Japanese tourists.
The way these groups work, htey have sets of plans in various stages of development and readiness at all times. They plan participants are kinda like sleeper cells, just waiting for the word to “go”
Abdel Rachmann is being held under terms of incarciration that limit his abilty to send a “go” message to his terror group. His is, however, allowed to have unfettered communicatio with his lawyers.
Lynne Stewart deliberately and with knowledge of what she was doing transmitted messages to his teroor group, at least tone of which, appears from it’s language to have been a “go” signal.
Kurt said “You want to talk with people who have “grace, strength and conviction”, go talk with some of our injured soldiers from Iraq. Even though many are missing a leg/arm/eye (or worse), they still say they would have done it again. They do not throw blame around, and they continue to believe in what they were fighting for. SNIP
Then why does the military discharge them after they are wounded? There must be a lot of jobs in the military for servicemen missing a leg, for instance?
SanderO @ 138
The Lynne Stewart trial was conducted out in the open, nothing was “secret” it was covered–badly– in the press at the time. Press sitting tin the courtroom when ever they wanted–no secrets
Sleeper cells.
You sound like you have been reading John Grishamn novels.
How come they know there are sleeper cells and don’t arrest them?
This makes no sense.. but it is convenient for skeering people to think that sleeper cells are in their neighborhoods.
That’s a load of hooey in kool aid.
I don’t buy it.
SanderO @ 142
I’ve met Lynne Stewart too. many ties. I liked Lynne Stewart. I reaaly did. But she left to governemnt no choice, she was warned repeatedly and kept doing it anyway, she was totally brazen in her violation of the law.
How do I find the chat???
I’ll wouldn’t doubt that the Abel Rachman group was infiltrated and and directed by the FBI.
You need to look past the rubbish that they are feeding you.
Really you do.
Since 93 they knew every step and breath he these guys took… the FBI was in on everything.
SanderO @ 148
I am not going to derail this thread. Sorry
Way down in EPU land, I know.
I put a hold on the last copy of the book in captivity at Powells Books on Friday when I found out she would be here.
They finally confirmed it late Sat.
I got up yesterday and drove 60 mile to get it and back. I made a pot roast in the crock pot and then set down and read the whole book.
An amazing tale by an amazing lady.
I can’ t wait for the book salon.
Laboring in the anti-shallow detail, here are the Lynne Stewart trial transcripts.
looseheadprop @ 140
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/…..racket.htm
Speaking of heroes, Smedley Butler.
Mr. Wilson’s warning to America are similar to Maj Gen Butler’s warnings and revelations to America back when?. Standard Oil, is alive and well, Exxon Mobile. The corporate interests whose thwarted fascist 1933 coup, benefited and profited from WWII. Ike’s warnings of these interests, like Butler’s have been silenced. Wilson’s warnings were “snuffed” and his wife victimized by criminals. Now the “criminals” hide behind state secrets, executive privilege, and national security. This is what fascists do when consolidating power and denying citizens protection under law, using the color of law!!
.
SanderO @ 151
I only widh the FBI was “on to everything” as you put it. I have worked with amny an FBI agent, and Agents from other agencies, and it is nowhere near as organized as you would like to believe.
The computer system they had back then was laughable, and the various field offices did not communicate with each other or very well with DC. There always has been and, as far as I know still is, a big disconnect beween HQ in DC and the various field offices b/c FBI HQ is seen as too political (not in the partisan politcs sense like what AAG did to DOJ, but the fear of criticism and bad press way).
There are also turf wars like you wouldn’t believe. I know of a current task force investigation that has been stalled for going on 2 years now because the specail agent sform different departments cannot work out a stipulated set of MOU’s (Memeo of Understanding) laying out which agency is resposnsible for what tasks in the investiagtion and who is in charge.
Since I have friends on both sides of the sdispte, I get phones calls from each side complaining about how the other side is being unreasonable.
My comment to both sides, is while you squabble, this investigation is still not getting underway.
Sorry, buddy, you know not of what you speak. You are grossly underinformed and should really consider reading those trascripts before you shoot you mouth of in public and embaras yourself furhter
Ray — Lawyers have very strict rules of conduct and ethics that we are supposed to follow. When a lawyer knowingly and brazenly flouts those rules, it is very serious business and is to be treated as such. We are schooled in the law — and when we flagrantly break it, both prosecutors and judges lower the boom for very good reasons. For the same reason that a governmental official breaking the law is a serious, serious matter — it is not done.
When it is done, it needs to be quashed and quickly. Especially where that lawyer has been repeatedly warned that said conduct is not to be tolerated and must cease immediately because it is not only a violation of ethical rules and the regs that govern attorney/client relationships, but also because the conduct presents a risk to national security.
Prof. Foland was kind enough to put a link to the transcripts from the trial in the comments. If anyone has questions on particulars, do avail yourself of the very lengthy read.
Professor Foland @ 155
How much do I love you right now? Thanks
Anyway in the Lynn Stewart case she was the subject of eavesdropping and that is illegally received evidence and would be disqualified or should be.
Big brother is now allowed to listen to privileged conversations be lawyer and client.
That sucks.
looseheadprop @ 145
Hmm, Rahman didn’t mention something about a “big wedding” by chance? (wink)
I trust you are familiar with this asinine intelligence analysis of one purported sleeper cells trip to Disneyland, eh? (smile)
Uh. Mah. Gawd. Please, for the love of all that is holy, read the trial transcripts and stop sounding like a newsgroup from conspiracies r us. Truly. Everyone.
It is one thing to have an overarching theory about random conduct. It is quite another to ignore altogether trial transcripts which lay the facts out altogether too clearly and pretend that the information does not exist.
I don’t have a lot of patience with folks on the other side who just make shit up to serve their political agenda. Neither do I have patience for it from folks on my end of the spectrum. You are more than entitled to your own opinions — but you are not entitled to your own facts. Read the transcripts.
This is, the truth!!
looseheadprop@ 159 says:
“I only wish the FBI was “on to everything” as you put it. I have worked with many an FBI agent, and Agents from other agencies, and it is nowhere near as organized as you would like to believe.”
I am not a lawyer, but there are plenty of them who have no sense of ethics.
And we have seen how government lawyers appointed by the bushies fit into that category included AGAG.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 160
In the kindest way, Christy, let me assure you that high government officials including George Bush, Dick Cheney and dozens of their chief aids are doing it. They are breaking the law every day. And the bastards are getting away with it. It is done. Daily. Mostly with the acquiescence of the broken court system, the broken Congressional oversight committees, the broken media and bankrupted public, too broke and disillusioned to know any better.
LHP I don’t buy this BS that we know their secret code…
This is too convenient. These are allegations not facts.
We need FACTS.
In all these terrorism cases we don’t see actual facts. Look at Padilla.
He signed applications form? Do you believe that rubbish? And it is internally inconsistent?
Let’s see the facts.
You read the transcripts?
WHAT WAS THE MESSAGE SHE SENT?
if you haven’t read them how do you know what’s there?
If you have, just what did she transmit?
Please.
Ray Duray @ 156
I cannot imagine what “cover up” of the facts of the 1993 bombing you are referring to. There has been no coverup. There has been only prosecutions, Succesful Prosecutions I might point out, and ongoing investigations conducted under the normal rules of Grand Jury secrecy.
It’s not pat’s nor any other prosecutor’s perogative to shoot their mouths off in public about things learned in the GJ.
As to the Messages, if you click on Prof Foland’s helpful link–which is to Lynne Stewart’s own website– and read the indictment, it lists them specically. The very first one is a message that Abdell Rachmann had withdrawn his support for a ceasefire declared by his terror group in Egypt.
Yeah, she knowing transmitted a messaged calling for violence!!!
You are about as wrong as you can be
SanderO @ 162
Not all conversations betweeen a lawyer and a client are privleged. By long established case law, going back before the founding of this nation, a lawyer’s conversation with a client in which the lawyer conspires with the client to commit a FUTURE crime, has never been subject to attorney client privlege.
The ignorance level in your comments is very high
Also fingerprints on “things” can be done by having a blindfolded prisoner touch something… a piece of paper even blank and afterwards printed.
The conditions that these prisoners have have held almost removes all the so called prima facie evidence as having any credibility.
This isn’t tin foil stuff. This is asking for objective facts, and evidence properly obtained and verified.
The US government and the FBI has been fabricating evidence and framing people. You don’t think so?
So tell me… how does the gov legally obtain non privileged conversations without illegally eavesdropping?
The FBI was probably involved in the 93 bombing. Yea I said that.
SanderO @ 166
And somewhere along the line, Lynne Stewart who stated out motivated by the best kind of ethics, the belief that it was the defense’s constitutional obligation to “put the Government to its proof” so that defendants would not get railroaded, lost her way and tragically broke the law.
But she did this to herself, no one “went after her.” To the contrary, many of the people involved in the decision to prosecute her were very saddened by it.
OMG withdrawing a support for a ceasefire is evidence of plotting?
That is a leap. And you know it.
SanderO @ 168
What are you talking about? Did I ever say anything about knowing anybody’s “secret code”?
Go read the transcripts and the indictment and the judge’s decision. Stop making shit up and stop drawing wild conclusions based on things that were never said
SanderO @ 173
How about with a legally obtained warrant isssued by a judge? Read the damn transcripts and stop making shit up
SanderO @ 174
Oh Dog!
I am not going to read the transcripts, sorry.
I asked what were the messages and how did the gov know they we plotting of terrorists and how did the gov find that out?
You tell me.
You read them and you know and you are a lawyer. You help me. I’m an architect. OK?
Memo to Katie Couric: Pass next time when offered an interview with the likes of Mrs. Wilson, who makes you look dowdy, frumpy, unfashionable, and just downright unattractive.
bob h @ 181
Hoped Kates was going to ask for a thrrrrrreesome, like Whoopie? Didn’t happen!
:(
SanderO @ 153
And look how well that’s turning out. Sander, it might interest you to know that Christy and loosehead have more important things to do than help you research something you are too lazy to read. It’s a legal document, not Chinese. Either read the documents, or give it a rest, ok?
I don’t trust the government. They have lied too many times in my lifetime.
There are many good people in public service, but there are plenty of bad ones as well.
If you don’t believe that, you are hopelessly naive.
Rising College “Tuition” and tax exempt status?
“Lessening the burdens of government”
Just like health-care………….
Now really folks……………
It occurs to me, watching the way Tweety behaves around women on the tube, that he’s very much in keeping with overall attitudes in this administration which prefers birdbath-shallow glorified secretary/receptionists (eg. Condi) or castrating shrews (Judy Miller) to mature, temperate adult women with brains. Couple that with the fact that Ms. Wilson is a stunner and you’ve got a perfect target on which to pour buckets of bile.
The key meme in this affair is “The Wife.” That’s who Ms. Wilson is suppsosed to be — and therefore that which they must always strive to reduce her to.
And in doing so they reduce Mr. Wilson to the status of “pussy-whipped.”
(Please excuse my French, but it’s the only langauge possible when deal with BushCo. and its world-view.)
THE NEW YORK TIMES
* * * * *
Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1
“Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast”
By Ralph Blumenthal
[Mod Note; Edited by Mod for length. To help keep the FDL servers running smoothly and to avoid any copyright issues, please keep article excerpts short and include a link as well. Thank you. ]
SanderO @ 184
America’s founders are clearly in your corner! None trusted government to do the “right thing.” American history, supports your healthy, well-founded distrust of government!
SanderO @ 184
The problem is, you seem to be mixed up about who are the good ones and who are the bad ones.
I’m outah here, got to do some work now. Be back later for Valerie
LHP no I don’t.
I see the bad ones and I see the good ones.
Problem is, I see more bad ones wherever I look.
After 911, we were lied to about the air quality. That was a criminal conspiracy which went UP AND DOWN all levels of government. There is evidence there.
Where are the good prosecutors on that one?
Not one prosecution on that.
The problem is, you seem to be mixed up about who are the good ones and who are the bad ones.
Sounds a little like Trent, “Wiseass-ish”
Just read Larry Johnsons last piece. How f—ing shameless and criminal that the Bush administration nor the CIA stepped up to plate and protect Valerie Plame and her family. I guess one would expect that from the very same traitors who outed her. I am more than infuriated I am enraged for the Wilsons.
Impeach these cowards and traitors. Enough!
I am mixed up…
I see lots of the bad guys getting away with criminal behavior.
But maybe I can’t see it for what it is?
So Kathleen… is the CIA good or bad?
How about the FBI? DOJ?
If the good ones there can’t do good stuff, the bad ones run the show and taint the entire organization.
All three have run amok. We need a clean sweep. Get them ALL out. ALL OF THEM
Let them all be re vetted.
dogmatta @ 8
That seals it, Katie confirms Republicans think THE TRUTH is partisan.
Through every mind-numbingly disgusting political debacle I’ve had to live through in my short life, I can’t help but think of that montage in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington which shows wingnut chronies busting up a children’s newspaper, running little boys in a wagon off the road, and turning fire hoses on a community parade in support of the filibustering Senator.
This is the mentality of the Right. I’m going to get mine, and if I have to crush everyone else to do so, I will. That there isn’t enough popular opposition is not because people aren’t angry; it is because the same people who are running the show have made dissent equal to suicide. You question the lies of the administration and your career will be ruined, your family put in danger, your credibility forever questioned. For most people, that is too much to lose.
That women is really scary.
What is appealing about her as a journalist or even as a human being?
I was directed to a commentary posted back in March. It was probably one of the best I read.
Here is the link if anyone is interested
http://joeleonardi.wordpress.c…..-big-deal/
Christy Hardin Smith @ 123
Personally I love to lob some real slow soft spit balls, so they can’t help but catch ‘em.
Spin…gotta love how somebody can twist lyin’ around and call it ’spin’.
The resignations concerning our rapacious power-elite’s conquering of Iraq & Iran in order to make greater profits when we go to the gas station is dead-on. They will not stop…and yes, if you call them out on it, you will suffer in direct proportion to your level of perceived threat.
Now take that tactical objective and extend it into strategic consequence. Our earth is at a tipping-point ecologically. The folks on the Weather Channel can’t hide their befuddlement at the statistically undeniable trend towards a climate incapable of supporting our planet’s population. And still the pace of consumption grows, as it must, if all are to enjoy an “American-style” standard of living. But don’t worry, patriots! As the flood comes, and our coasts sink beneath the sea, our bold leadership of cannibalistic neo-cons have all but completed their temporary retrenchment. The area between Denver and Kansas City, MO (I-70 corridor) is almost completely secured in order to provide a suitably hardened bunker until Mars has been acceptably spruced up for their delicate constitutions…
YOU have GOT to be kidding! Please say that you are kidding. If you are not kidding, what are you doing?
Kurt @ 57