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	<title>Comments on: Elliot Spitzer and the New York Driver&#8217;s License Debate</title>
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		<title>By: bob h</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1051591</link>
		<dc:creator>bob h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1051591</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That this kind of racist nativism is so strong even in a Blue State like NY is truly sobering.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That this kind of racist nativism is so strong even in a Blue State like NY is truly sobering.</p>
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		<title>By: xargaw</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1051032</link>
		<dc:creator>xargaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1051032</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Having lived in California, licenses are only a small part of the problem. Typically, illegals (at least in California) have no car insurance due to the high cost of insurance and are often very transient making it difficult to find them in the event they are involved in an accident. I consider myself welcoming to immigrants, but granting licenses without enforcing the responsibilitues that go along with driving makes no sense and only creates bigger problems. This is one (and pretty much the only one) area where I agree with the opposition. This is one issue where, perhaps, you had to have been there to understand it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having lived in California, licenses are only a small part of the problem. Typically, illegals (at least in California) have no car insurance due to the high cost of insurance and are often very transient making it difficult to find them in the event they are involved in an accident. I consider myself welcoming to immigrants, but granting licenses without enforcing the responsibilitues that go along with driving makes no sense and only creates bigger problems. This is one (and pretty much the only one) area where I agree with the opposition. This is one issue where, perhaps, you had to have been there to understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn in MA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1051027</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn in MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1051027</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow, i just got an email from Amazon - my pre-ordered book “Fair Game” has been shipped!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, i just got an email from Amazon &#8211; my pre-ordered book “Fair Game” has been shipped!</p>
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		<title>By: xaxnar</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050649</link>
		<dc:creator>xaxnar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050649</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As someone who lives and works in the Capitol Region of New York, I can tell you the Republican ‘outrage’ over the driver’s license deal has almost nothing to do with national security and everything to do with the Republicans trying to throw roadblocks in front of everything Spitzer is trying to accomplish. A number of county DMV clerks are refusing to issue DL’s under the new guidelines - and they’re almost entirely Republican.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The top Republican left in New York State politics is State Senate Majority leader Joe Bruno - and he’s a real piece of work. When Sptizer’s people did a really ham-handed look into what Bruno was doing when he was borrowing a state helicopter for ‘official’ business, Bruno went ballistic. He’s been hiring big name GOP gun slingers on the state’s dime to attack Sptizer, holding Senate hearings, and every other kind of obstruction you can imagine.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thealbanyproject.com/frontPage.do&quot;&gt;The Albany Project&lt;/a&gt; blog, Joe Bruno will be on Lou Dobbs tonight, and you can guess what he’ll be talking about.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Albany Project has more on the whole feud, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thealbanyproject.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=B216A9242A22A53F5CD089D7BF3AFEF0?diaryId=1446&quot;&gt;like this piece&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It ain’t entertaining anymore. This petty, ugly grudge match has stalled Albany. Granted, that usually would be considered a good thing, given the State Legislature’s well-earned label as “most dysfunctional in the country.” But the feud between Spitzer and Bruno threatens to interfere with everything from $2 exactas to the siting of new power plants.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To his credit, the new governor made significant progress on a batch of serious issues before the battle with Bruno exploded. The long-running lawsuit over public-education funding was resolved. Workers’-compensation formulas were rationalized, saving state businesses nearly $1 billion this year. A state-budget-reform package was signed into law. Major state agencies were overhauled.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It was a nice start. But by blundering into a war with Bruno, Spitzer has seen his agenda paralyzed. Spitzer’s years as attorney general made it clear he enjoyed playing rough. The notion of using the state police and the IRS to mess with a political opponent, however, verges on Nixonian and is beneath Spitzer. But let’s be clear: In its cost to New York, a few months of clumsy Spitzer tricksterism is a bargain compared with 31 years of Bruno’s gobbling from the public trough. Each August, in the glorious sun of Saratoga, Bruno makes a show of being a genteel patron of the sport of kings. Yet he’s more adept in hardball politics than his current enemy.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There’s more at the link.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who lives and works in the Capitol Region of New York, I can tell you the Republican ‘outrage’ over the driver’s license deal has almost nothing to do with national security and everything to do with the Republicans trying to throw roadblocks in front of everything Spitzer is trying to accomplish. A number of county DMV clerks are refusing to issue DL’s under the new guidelines &#8211; and they’re almost entirely Republican.</p>
<p>The top Republican left in New York State politics is State Senate Majority leader Joe Bruno &#8211; and he’s a real piece of work. When Sptizer’s people did a really ham-handed look into what Bruno was doing when he was borrowing a state helicopter for ‘official’ business, Bruno went ballistic. He’s been hiring big name GOP gun slingers on the state’s dime to attack Sptizer, holding Senate hearings, and every other kind of obstruction you can imagine.</p>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.thealbanyproject.com/frontPage.do">The Albany Project</a> blog, Joe Bruno will be on Lou Dobbs tonight, and you can guess what he’ll be talking about.</p>
<p>The Albany Project has more on the whole feud, <a href="http://www.thealbanyproject.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=B216A9242A22A53F5CD089D7BF3AFEF0?diaryId=1446">like this piece</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>It ain’t entertaining anymore. This petty, ugly grudge match has stalled Albany. Granted, that usually would be considered a good thing, given the State Legislature’s well-earned label as “most dysfunctional in the country.” But the feud between Spitzer and Bruno threatens to interfere with everything from $2 exactas to the siting of new power plants.</p>
<p>To his credit, the new governor made significant progress on a batch of serious issues before the battle with Bruno exploded. The long-running lawsuit over public-education funding was resolved. Workers’-compensation formulas were rationalized, saving state businesses nearly $1 billion this year. A state-budget-reform package was signed into law. Major state agencies were overhauled.</p>
<p>It was a nice start. But by blundering into a war with Bruno, Spitzer has seen his agenda paralyzed. Spitzer’s years as attorney general made it clear he enjoyed playing rough. The notion of using the state police and the IRS to mess with a political opponent, however, verges on Nixonian and is beneath Spitzer. But let’s be clear: In its cost to New York, a few months of clumsy Spitzer tricksterism is a bargain compared with 31 years of Bruno’s gobbling from the public trough. Each August, in the glorious sun of Saratoga, Bruno makes a show of being a genteel patron of the sport of kings. Yet he’s more adept in hardball politics than his current enemy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There’s more at the link.</p>
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		<title>By: dday</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050454</link>
		<dc:creator>dday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050454</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We’ve tried this out in California a half-dozen times, always ending up in a loss and inflaming the Minutemen wing of the wingnut brigade every time.  State Sen. Gil Cedillo is nobly carrying on this cause.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I know that when someone without a license or insurance hit my car a couple years back, I had no recourse whatsoever.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We’ve tried this out in California a half-dozen times, always ending up in a loss and inflaming the Minutemen wing of the wingnut brigade every time.  State Sen. Gil Cedillo is nobly carrying on this cause.</p>
<p>I know that when someone without a license or insurance hit my car a couple years back, I had no recourse whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050389</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050389</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1050351&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;P J Evans @ 159&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;the dangerous potential enemy who would seek to sneak in illegally, and maybe with weapons, would be easier to catch&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They come in without weapons, on tourist or student visas. That’s &lt;em&gt;legal&lt;/em&gt; entry.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those aren’t the ones we’re supposed to be worried about at the illegal border entry points. The really dangerous ones might be carrying a backpack nuke or even marijuana.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The potentially dangerous ones who come without weapons are indeed still potentially dangerous, but potentially dangerous is different than Clearly Dangerous.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1050351"><em>P J Evans @ 159</em></a></p>
<blockquote><blockquote>the dangerous potential enemy who would seek to sneak in illegally, and maybe with weapons, would be easier to catch</p></blockquote>
<p>They come in without weapons, on tourist or student visas. That’s <em>legal</em> entry.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Those aren’t the ones we’re supposed to be worried about at the illegal border entry points. The really dangerous ones might be carrying a backpack nuke or even marijuana.</p>
<p>The potentially dangerous ones who come without weapons are indeed still potentially dangerous, but potentially dangerous is different than Clearly Dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: P J Evans</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050351</link>
		<dc:creator>P J Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050351</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;the dangerous potential enemy who would seek to sneak in illegally, and maybe with weapons, would be easier to catch&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They come in without weapons, on tourist or student visas. That’s &lt;em&gt;legal&lt;/em&gt; entry.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the dangerous potential enemy who would seek to sneak in illegally, and maybe with weapons, would be easier to catch</p>
</blockquote>
<p>They come in without weapons, on tourist or student visas. That’s <em>legal</em> entry.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050308</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050308</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1050108&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;JF @ 33&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Jane, you said&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;[D]enying drivers licenses to undocumented immigrants only makes sense if your desire is to make their lives as miserable as possible&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I believe this is the goal of many on that side of the issue.  The belief being, that if they are miserable, they’ll go “home.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, there are some who are going to be so far from home that they simply wouldn’t want to ever go back. But, for some who live in northern Mexico, it would be great if they had a visitor/worker status which would let them come here to work (if they like) and return home whenever they want. Giving them some flexibility would possibly keep down the number moving here permanently.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One thing the wingnuts forget to do is consider the consequences of their policy ideas. They are so fanatical and ideological they forget they might get their goal achieved by considering various plans, not just a knee-jerk.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1050108"><em>JF @ 33</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Jane, you said</p>
<blockquote><p>[D]enying drivers licenses to undocumented immigrants only makes sense if your desire is to make their lives as miserable as possible</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I believe this is the goal of many on that side of the issue.  The belief being, that if they are miserable, they’ll go “home.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Of course, there are some who are going to be so far from home that they simply wouldn’t want to ever go back. But, for some who live in northern Mexico, it would be great if they had a visitor/worker status which would let them come here to work (if they like) and return home whenever they want. Giving them some flexibility would possibly keep down the number moving here permanently.</p>
<p>One thing the wingnuts forget to do is consider the consequences of their policy ideas. They are so fanatical and ideological they forget they might get their goal achieved by considering various plans, not just a knee-jerk.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050301</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050301</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1050081&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;katymine @ 13&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;As a resident of Arizona, this is a huge issue. We have a high incident of hit &amp; run accidents and our uninsured driver coverage here is very expensive. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This solution is so reasonable but the wingnuts just get their panties in a wad because in their next breath….then undocumented persons then would be getting welfare &amp; medicaid. BUT then they would NOT be undocumented workers, there could be a handle on how many truly ARE in the country. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Again logic and wingnut thinking never are within the same world view.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems to me that it behooves us to protect ourselves by giving some kind of standard identification to anyone coming into the country. Who we let in and how many is a separate issue, but I would think that it should be much easier to protect the borders (with the few border patrol we’re using) if the mass of immigrants feel comfortable coming through standard checkpoints. We would be able to spot others coming across the border in odd locations much easier — they would stand out like a sore thumb. We could also spread our border patrol a bit thinner to cover more border area.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For national security we need to let people come through ‘normally’ and with identification, so the dangerous potential enemy who would seek to sneak in illegally, and maybe with weapons, would be easier to catch.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1050081"><em>katymine @ 13</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>As a resident of Arizona, this is a huge issue. We have a high incident of hit &amp; run accidents and our uninsured driver coverage here is very expensive. </p>
<p>This solution is so reasonable but the wingnuts just get their panties in a wad because in their next breath….then undocumented persons then would be getting welfare &amp; medicaid. BUT then they would NOT be undocumented workers, there could be a handle on how many truly ARE in the country. </p>
<p>Again logic and wingnut thinking never are within the same world view.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It seems to me that it behooves us to protect ourselves by giving some kind of standard identification to anyone coming into the country. Who we let in and how many is a separate issue, but I would think that it should be much easier to protect the borders (with the few border patrol we’re using) if the mass of immigrants feel comfortable coming through standard checkpoints. We would be able to spot others coming across the border in odd locations much easier — they would stand out like a sore thumb. We could also spread our border patrol a bit thinner to cover more border area.</p>
<p>For national security we need to let people come through ‘normally’ and with identification, so the dangerous potential enemy who would seek to sneak in illegally, and maybe with weapons, would be easier to catch.</p>
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		<title>By: Plisko</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050297</link>
		<dc:creator>Plisko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/22/elliot-spitzer-and-the-new-york-drivers-license-debate/#comment-1050297</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;These people obviously don’t live in a boarder state like I to in Arizona.  Hit and run accidents are incredibly common because there are so many illegals who can’t get licenses but they drive anyway.  It doesn’t matter how good a person they are. When faced with arrest deportation and possible disappearing because they aren’t supposed to be driving. . they run like hell.  They also have no insurance even if they don’t run because they can’t get it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These people obviously don’t live in a boarder state like I to in Arizona.  Hit and run accidents are incredibly common because there are so many illegals who can’t get licenses but they drive anyway.  It doesn’t matter how good a person they are. When faced with arrest deportation and possible disappearing because they aren’t supposed to be driving. . they run like hell.  They also have no insurance even if they don’t run because they can’t get it.</p>
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