Late-Late Sunday: Heckuva Job, Cheney |
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| By: Teddy Partridge Sunday October 21, 2007 10:59 pm | |
“Our job was, basically, to make sure the bad guys didn’t get nuclear weapons.”
Be here tomorrow at 1:30pm eastern, 10:30am pacific, for a special Book Salon with author Valerie Plame Wilson, who’ll chat about her new book, Fair Game, with host Sidney Blumenthal.
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Saturday, February 18, 2012
2:00 pm Pacific
None of Us Were Like This Before: American Soldiers and Torture Chat with Joshua E. S. Phillips about his new book. Hosted by Jason Leopold.
Sunday, February 19, 2012
2:00 pm Pacific
Pity the Billionaire: The Hard-Times Swindle and the Unlikely Comeback of the Right Chat with Thomas Frank about his new book.
Hosted by Charles P. Pierce.
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TSF!!!
Teddy..
VALERIE!
Plame at the Lake – woohoo!
Has there been a time change? I read earlier 12:30 Pacific.
Ok now I am heading to bed….. nite all
See ya tomorrow with bells on!
woohoo…… this time I don’t even need to pretend I am working ;)
Nevermind. I just saw the time on the right sidebar.
Loo Hoo. @ 5
I see 10:30pm – 12:30pm Loo Hoo.
I want some of what LooHoo is having
Loo Hoo. @ 5
Ha! Suzanne.
Night, Katymine.
Loo Hoo. @ 5
Go look for the box over ———————>>>
that has Valerie’s picture and it has date & time
Hit forehead this morning then it was pointed out to me…. Duh ok I ignore ads
did anyone tell downstairs?
Loo Hoo. @ 5
Rather unclearly, the Special Times are listed in the sidebar as 10:30-12:30 Pacific and 1:30-3:30 eastern. I think the ending times are for the benefit of non-regulars, but I found it confusing too.
FDL Late Night, 10-21-06.
CNN:
Four firefighters and 13 civilians were hurt in the southeastern part of San Diego County, said Roxanne Provaznik, spokeswoman for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
The Sand Diego County blaze, straddling Highway 94, scorched 14,000 acres by nightfall, fire officials said. At that time, it was just five percent contained.
Hope Old Coastie is okay…
Suzanne @ 12
The author did.
The ending time helps folks know when the featured speaker will not be here to answer questions, in my humble opinion.
Otherwise, folks show up hours later and ask a question the speaker may not see (unless the speaker is John Dean of course)
Suzanne @ 12
Yup! That’s how I got here.
RBG @ 14
a year later and it is still valid – fuck
How rude of Dick Cheney not to tell anyone that he was going to destroy intelligence programs in order to save them.
The man’s incorrigible.
;>)
Loo Hoo. @ 16
The smoke was horrible coming up I15 around Rancho Bernardo, but cleared up by Escondido.
I don’t see flames anymore, Wigwam.
Wigwam, re your prevthread query, I believe the giants are on the blogs.
Suzanne @ 19
Prescient seems sadly appropriate.
I’m fine, LooHoo… I’m up in the OC area fire… winds aren’t exactly quiet, but not monsterous either… gonna be a long night though…
“Sand Diego County”…?
Hmmm.
Loo Hoo. @ 22
The top 4 CHP hot spots are SoCal fires
if the CHP page reverts to the default LA page, click on Hot Spots to see the most active incidents.
Suzanne @ 19
Wow! But we need to appreciate how far we’ve come in the past year.
A year ago, they stuffed the MCA down our throats with our leaders saying, “We’ll not have an inch of daylight between them and us.”
Now, we’re fighting. Not so effectively as we’d like, but we’re fighting. And some of our efforts are having an effect.
RBG @ 14
Glenn today is a pair of history lessons, both three-run triples. What have we learned? Anything?
1 – Bobby Kennedy and Banking Industry Amnesty.
2) More recently, our media elites, the DLC, and us.
RBG, thanks for the wayback machine, that was a fun thread.
wigwam @ 28
As Gilly said, We Fight Back.
TeddySanFran @ 23
You bet your ass! The blogs are the greatest thing in American political commentary since the days of our founders. And, they’d be proud of us.
TeddySanFran @ 30
Wonder what’s happened with Patrick 4/4?
Hooray for Valerie Plame Wilson! Looking forward to her visit.
Totally off topic: I am now a grandmama! Daniel arrived Wednesday. He’s got a heart defect and a cleft palate so he’s in for a bunch of operations, but he is so very loved and welcome.
wigwam @ 32
We’re the pamphleteers? I like that.
TexasEllen @ 34
woohoo and prayers that daniel overcomes his health challenges and that his doctors are skillful.
mom ok?
at the urging of teen punaisette, we saw “Across the Universe” tonight. first stipulation: I hate musicals. second: touche pas aux Beatles! (don’t mess with the Beatles).
plenty to find fault with. nevertheless, this critic’s blurb captures it:
I’ll go ahead and say it: I’m embarrassed by how much I liked this movie.
YMMV
I won’t be able to be here. I’ll be sitting through repetitive juror questionings at the beginning of former Alaska State Representative Vic Kohring’s Federal corruption trial. Our blog is up and running.
Thanks for the help and advice on this yesterday, pups!
Here’s to Valerie Plame Wilson – and the TRUTH!
TexasEllen @ 34
Congrats TexasEllen!
Pediatric surgery of today – miracles are now commonplace.
Congratulations, Texas Ellen. Best wishes for little Daniel. I have a colleague whose son was born with a cleft palate, and all was well within nine months.
looking forward to reading your liveblog, et
Not working for me, ET.
The beautiful Luciana is fine and smiles at this baby like an angel! They are now at the new Dell Children’s Hospital in Austin. Son Doug is turning into the Daddy we knew he would be. They knew that Daniel had these problems before he was born, so they had already seen the pediatric surgeons before he came.
worked fine for me loohoo
Loo Hoo. @ 42
I’ve checked it 2x now, Loo Hoo. It worked. Try again…
Loo Hoo. @ 42
Clear cache. Loo Hoo. Fine for me as well.
And ET – hats-off to you, sir. Patriots work up there.
So, you two bloggers are going to duke it out, ET?
newtonusr @ 47
Thnks, again, newtonusr. Gotta get up real early to bring Ms. ET’s Subaru to the tire shop for the winter change before they open. Then back to heft ET, Jr.’s winter tires into the back of my Golf and head in to Anchor Town for the jury questions.
Got it third try, ET. Interesting format. I look forward to your insights.
Good night, folks.
darkblack @ 48
LOL! I hope not. Fred’s a Randian libertarian, who loves this guy up for trial like a brother. I’m hoping to walk him through this as best possible.
I’m getting interested in Vic’s attorney, John Henry Browne. He was the first prominent WA attorney to break into the Wenatchee child s*x ring trial wierdness with unbridled courage, back in the mid to late 90s. A famous set of cases, reminiscent of the Salem trials in many ways.
nite loo hoo
darkblack @ 48
one wonders whether ET’s counterpart, a close friend of the guy on trial (and a potential witness), sports rose-colored glasses.
Nitely nite Loo Hoo and this ole sleepyhead is off to get some sleep too…first Monday morning I’ve been happy to wake up early and catch Heroine Plame’s visit to the late. Firedoglake forevah!
punaise @ 54
figuratively, yes. He thinks the case will be dismissed before he is called to the stand. I haven’t asked what he might have to say that might be germaine.
Ed*ard Teller @ 56
what was that you wrote about germane squeezes?
newtonusr @ 29
Glenn today is a pair of history lessons, both three-run triples. What have we learned? Anything?
1 – Bobby Kennedy and Banking Industry Amnesty.
2) More recently, our media elites, the DLC, and us.
I take seriously the warning Sy Hersh gave: too much emphasis on the troop numbers withdrawn will not prove wrong because it undercuts the military, but because Bush can announce next summer a greater number withdrawn and undercut the Dem position.
Because of this, no candidate should define their campaign on the basis of a specific troop withdrawal plan. They should state simply that any useful objective that’s achievable has been reached, that our troops should be redeployed to finish the hunt for OBL and the rest brought home because they deserve to be rested and out of harm’s way. Not because of any political consideration but because of the importance of their lives and because doing the right thing is always right, even if it’s politically risky.
In short, ending the war in 2008 has to be portrayed as an act of courage, not as an admission of failure. Call it what you want after they’re withdrawn, but quit making it about Bush’s failure because Bush isn’t running, but he’ll pull the issue out from under anyone who makes it Job One in their campaign platform.
Job One should be defense of the Bill of Rights and upholding the rule of law so it applies to every lawmaker, every appointee, every CEO.
Btw, howdy pups!
hey kevin.. how ya been
Ed*ard Teller @ 52
That is quite an interesting set of cases…Perhaps notorious enough to put into a new edition of Popular Delusions.
;>)
nite npb
punaise @ 57
came close to duking it out with Ms. ET on that today, talking to Fred. He calls his companion “my main squeeze.” I’ve never called Ms. ET that. When she heard I’d used the comparison between his relationship and ours, she was temporarily taken aback, but OK’d it for the blog. She’s so understanding for a Swede. Her Icelandic half tempers that Swedish scariness….
Hi Suzanne. Doing fine. Offspring #3 is 5 mos PG and just announced I’ll be gramping a boy come February. Otherwise, the Red Sox won, so all’s okay with my universe for the moment.
ok, time for me to (sob) clean house again.
i’m going to ask santa for one week, just one week, of not having to keep the house perfect – asking for the little cottage by the creek in the redwoods to sell is perhaps too much for santa but he should be able to handle just a week off (fingers and toes crossed just in case)
ET: what’s scary about Swedes? A dark side unbeknownst to me?
darkblack @ 60
sell house sell
;>)
Get a Roomba, suzanne, and move NW, eh?
Kevin Hayden @ 65
I’m Norwegian. Trust me, they’re too logical and, and, and….
Kevin Hayden @ 63
most excellent news (for you – not for me and the wild thang team)…
grampa kevin? has a nice ring to it
hiya Kevin!
sell house sell
ET – not a phrase I’d use either
Ed*ard Teller @ 62
It might have been putting ‘cat’ before ‘main squeeze’ on the Love Train, also.
;>)
Grampa Kevin intends to plot with the little prince against the matriarchy! Payback, yanno.
Hi Teddy. How’s the Bay?
Har du hørt om svensken som reiste til India for å finne seg selv?
Han måtte reise tomhendt hjem.
Have you heard about the Swede who went to India to find himself?
He had to come home empty-handed…
I don’t get it either.
I was watching some of the post debate spew at faux spew, and, they were conducting a phone poll, my jaw dropped, Ron Paul had a commanding 36% tally, with Huckabee was next with 17%…!!! 8-)
Anyone notice Ledeen on WSJ, Kristol on Faux, and Cheney on USA Today, all on message = Kill Iran! ??
Kevin Hayden @ 58
Kevin – did you read suin’s thread earlier? The calculus is that each time American troops leave an area of Iraq, the locals suddenly start settling their differences with words and not guns.
If ChimpCo knows this, and I assume they do, the smart move is to declare victory and leave. With Chimpy in office. Before the election of ‘08.
But they won’t because it takes more time to steal all the remaining riches there.
But a Democrat could.
CTuttle @ 77
Which the MSM will report as ‘Rudy won!’
CTuttle @ 77
This has been going on for months. Get a screen shot, because those numbers are goners in the next few hours.
Ed*ard Teller @ 49
Mr. Teller,
I’m a’wonderin’ if you might happen to know an acquaintance of mine, a good ol’ boy name’a Ed Dankworth?
***
Say, you boys gonna be discussin’ these heer Baranof Hotel Tapes?
They got them any them dancin’ girls up there in Room 604?
Ed*ard Teller @ 81
I tried, and, they didn’t post it online…8-(
Ray Duray @ 82
I knew Ed Dankworth. Ed Dankworth was not my friend. Hopefully, you, sir, are no Ed Dankworth.
newtonusr @ 79
Yes I read Siun. But Hersh says the WH is actively discussing doing just that. They’ll still extract riches up through 1/19/09 anyway.
Kevin Hayden @ 78
Nope, watched with utter amazement the wicked witch of the East, Kate O’Bierne, singing the praises of Hillary Clinton on Puffball Timmuh’s MTP gabfest. Come to think of it, everyone at the table had a new bit of praise for the Goldwasser Girl. It was downright creepy. Reminded me of something Leni Reifenstahl might have filmed in Berlin in ‘37.
Kevin Hayden @ 85
I’m going to bit my lip and say, “fine with me.”
Anything to get our boys and girls out of that hellhole. As much as I’d like my Congress to stand up and do it, I’ll take it.
However, if they try a move in Iran, as Hersch has implied for years, can’t see how they can leave Iraq.
Kevin Hayden @ 58
Well, WE have learned. The DLC and the beltway pundit class obviously has learned nothing.
This is clearly part of inter-party warfare between the progressives and the DLC wing that dominates the Democratic leadership and the pundit class.
Bob in HI
Ed*ard Teller @ 84
LOL! About as polar opposite as you can imagine my friend. Ed was a client of mine in Juneau in 1985. While I found his politics odious, his sleave sensational and stories satisfying, it was his willingness to pay his bills that most impressed me. We parted company as enemies, he swore to ruin me as he cut the final check. It was an empty threat, but it certainly made an impression on me.
I had a lot more fun working for Bill Sheffield. Now there was a gentleman, albeit a man who knew a thing or two about honest graft.
CTuttle @ 83
I’m not a bit Ron Paul fan, but one of the guys who works for me is. He has been showing me all kinds of evidence that Paul has been running away with these debates and not getting the credit he deserves.
This is very important for progressives. Even the most red-state republicans are pissed off about what has been happening to our country and are ready to vote for anybody who’ll stand up for the nation and the constitution. But there are the Democratic leaders, e.g., Nancy “elevent-percent” Pelosi, cringing in the corner, afraid to speak out and throw her office behind it.
Bed beckons — goodnite, pups, see you on the morrow!
I’m more disgusted with Reid than Pelosi. Both have made mistakes, but I think Pelosi’s being outmaneuvered while Reid’s actively engaged with the dark side.
But I could be wrong.
Gnite, Teddy. Great dreams.
Speaking of profiteering, here’s our friend, HAL
Everyone gone niters?
Kevin Hayden @ 95
off to snooze now. nite kevin
wigwam @ 90
Wigwam,
With all due respect, I do understand why you might think that Pelosi is a craven coward cowering in a corner. But that’s not what is going on. Nancy is actually acting just as bravely as Marie Antoinette, Katherine the Great or the the Empress Dowager Wu on behalf of her class.
Our dear leader from San Francisco is a plutcrat and she is acting assiduously to protect the interests of her own kind. Sure, she’s interested in noblesse oblige, throwing the bums a dime or a dollar on a minimum wage, slipping in an S-CHIP snack for the kiddies, wagging her accusing finger at the Ottoman pashas and sounding benign, but beneath it all, Paul makes his money on government contracts and we mere peons are starting to demand the end to scams, wars and corruptions that are going to impinge upon the Pelosi family businesses.
I do hope you can understand that the mere thought that we are slaughering a million here and million there across the planet doesn’t trouble people in the dear leader’s class. It never has and it never will.
If you want a champion of the people, my advice is to watch the latest fantasy on PBS’s Masterpiece Theater. The Amazing Mrs. Pritchard is the elite’s answer to the great disappointment we all feel with our flesh-and-blood dear leader.
So, accept your fate. You are to enjoy fantasies on the telly, whilst the sad reality is one of the cruelty of the corrupt leadership of the Democratic Party hauling on its half of the ship of state sending us pellmell over the final cliffs toward financial, moral and intellectual bankruptcy.
But trust our dear leader to have secured her liferaft while watching the nation (that be you and me, eh?) drown in the dementia of the elites.
Kevin Hayden @ 95
Hey Kevin,
What shall we chat about? Did you happen to catch Naomi Wolf on Book TV today? I thought she was superb…
No, missed that. I tend to avoid the telly except for comic relief
I want to start videotaping the serfs & peasants and broadcast political views from grassroots upward.
Kevin Hayden @ 99
Colbert & Stewart? Or something else?
I’ve discovered that I’m much happier using the Crooks & Liars editors to find the choice morsels of these two shows and avoid the seemingly interminable commercial interruptions. Actually, I’ve Bittorrent a few of these shows and they amount to no more than 18 minutes of content per 30 minute segment. I’m thinking this is what Bernanke and Bush have been doing to the dollar lately.
(I’m a peasant, too)
Lessee, Yes TDS, sometimes Colbert, Boston Legal, and some Comedy Channel stuff.
Otherwise, maybe Letterman, some CSPAN when I need a purgative…
Kevin Hayden @ 100
What I’ve discovered to my chagrin is that we’d need a higher class of serfs and peasants in the U.S. for that to actually be fun.
I do recall with perfect delight my first job as a carpenter’s helper in 1972 showing up at a very funky and old-fashioned saw mill in Eugene, OR. I’ll never forget sitting down to lunch and having the chief sawyer and the green chain pullers discussing “Tempest” and “Hamlet”. Now that was the sort of peasant you’d need to find. I don’t think they exist any longer in this nation.
Sure they do, here in Eugene, but I do find an odd disconnect. Here, local politics is everything. National is like asking folks to press for change on Mars.
Kevin Hayden @ 102
I’m a C-SPAN and Book TV junkie. I find it to be about the only intelligent stuff on the boob-tube.
What’s Boston Legal about? I don’t think I’m at all familiar with it.
Letterman has a good segment on “Famous Presidential Moments” or something to that effect. I can’t believe how much deference Leno and Letterman paid to Bush for at least 5 years. It disgusted me because it wssn’t but about 5 minutes into the Clinton Administration that the jokes were flying fast and loose.
Kevin Hayden @ 104
I’m a Democratic Party PCP here in Bend (Deschutes County). The exact same parochial small-mindedness is the norm over here as well. I re-joined the Democratic Party in 2000 so that I could kick its bony ass to the Left. It’s been a frustrating 7 years, with most of the progressives in town now completely alienated from what has become a crotchety old-maids club of “don’t rock the boat” conservatives taking over the county party and driving it into submissive acquiescence to fascism. It’s both scary and disgusting in equal measures.
Narrow-mindedness seems to be all the rage around here these days.
Boston Legal is an oddball legal sitcom starring sitcom actors usually considered over the hill.
Stars Capt. Kirk, James Spader, Candace Bergen… but others show up…. John Larrouquette, Betty White, etc
Usually on Tues nite @ 10
I long for a viable third party. Eugene Debs, Bull Moose, Yippie, whatever. I tire of the intraparty struggle against bureaucratists.
What do ya do for a living?
Kevin Hayden @ 107
Thanks, sounds like something I won’t miss. :)
I can’t recall the last network sitcom or drama that I actually watched with consistency. Probably the second season of ER about 10 years ago when George Clooney was still on the show. It really fell off a cliff later on.
For quite a while I was watching and publicly exhibiting a coterie of political documentaries such as the Robert Greenwald series, MEF productions and other serious fare. I enjoyed my reputation as Central Oregon’s most provocative film exhibitionist.
Kevin Hayden @ 109
Well, if you stay in America you can long for a viable third party for the rest of your life.
Kevin Hayden @ 110
Omigosh, I’ve forgotten now? What do I do? Let’s see. For about three decades I was in the construction game. Then I tried to emulate Bernard Baruch and Warren Buffett for a time and though I didn’t quite have the connections they did, I did manage some success. Which affords me the time to now declare to those who ask that I’m a “full time internet researcher”.
Whatever that means. :)
Good morning. Anyone awake?
TexBetsy @ 114
The night shift.
Or I can start an unviable one and mock the dictator and his toy poodle coterie
Morning TB.
Good Morning TexBets, et. al. 55, rain in forecast(hopefully) in Fabulous Blue Ridge GA.
Hi Mr. Bill. I’ll send some of our precip yer way.
MR. Bill @ 118
Howdy Bill,
Are you in the drought zone? Is the Blue Ridge brown?
Those of us who have fires burning out of control less than three miles away are still up, Betsy.
You OK?
THX Kevin.
Kevin Hayden @ 119
It looks like So Cal could use a dousing as well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7055721.stm
I got a sister down in Rancho Bernardo. Things are getting just a bit close for comfort down thataway.
I’m fine. Just awake. Brain isn’t done processing the day.
It took a bit of the fun out of the Eagles concert, checking for evacuation orders via iPhone every other song. So far, so good, but the high school less than a mile from us has been opened as an evacuation center for residents of Tustin Ranch and Cowan Heights. OC Fire is worried about the fire jumping Highway 261. It’s still blowing 30 out of the northeast, and Monday’s forecast is for temps in the 90s.
PB shared this google fire map with me earlier in the evening. Not sure if it updates with refresh.
Ray Duray @ 120
Actually the leaf color is great, against all predictions. Oaks, the upper story of the forest mostly green (we had a wet July, which mitigated the drought somewhat) dotted with some color, the understory trees, dogwoods, sourwoods, small maples, brilliant. Some trees on high slopes appear to be dying, but mostly if we avoid fires, the forest is hanging on in my area.
And yeah, I’m in the drought zone. I spent the weekend at my boyfriends, and the creek there is smaller than we’ve ever seen. And my 17 year olds let a stuck toilet pump the my well dry. Had to shut it down and wait for it come back up last nite..
Kevin Hayden @ 116
What’ll ya call it, pardner? The Moxie Movement?
The Quixote Quadroons?
The Not-Gonna-Take-It Teaparty?
Which reminds me. There’s a feller in Nooo Yawk City who’s got a pretty good schtick goin’ wid dis Shopacopaylso Symphony:
http://www.revbilly.com/
The Reverend Billy wants you for his party, third, fifths or 750ml, your call.
G’day pups. Hope everyone escapes those SoCal fires. Very dry here downunder as well, smelled smoke all day, but it have been precautionary burns.
It’s coming up 7 pm Monday here so this is just a drive by as I have to cook din for The Future Mrs Downunder.
Be well.
Good to see you Pete. Monday look good from your end?
MR. Bill @ 127
Ray Duray @ 131
I was and will be an artist again, so color was my life..
burnspbesq @ 121
where are you Burns? I’m down in RSM – about 6 miles south of the fire… winds just kicked up wicked, but have shifted from the north.
I need to try and catch some sleep. Monday is my only day in the office this week (flying to NY Tuesday for meetings Wed – Fri), so I need to be somewhat functional.
Hope to see y’all for Late Nite tonight after I finish packing.
Hope you can grab some rest, Betsy.
thanks Burns
OldCoastie @ 133
I’m in Orange, near the Chapman exit from the 55. Usually we’re spectators, but they’ve opened El Modena HS as an evacuation center for Tustin Ranch/Lemon Heights/Cowan Heights. There seems to be some concern about fire jumping the 261 and heading west toward Tustin.
it’s a very wicked night, for sure… sleep well.
MR. Bill @ 132
Sounds delightful. Here, let me share one of my favorite photo sites. http://www.durhamtownship.com/
Here’s what’s keeping me up. Maybe y’all can help.
Went to a wedding Sun afternoon where I met a woman who is a brand new immigrant from Israel. Had a long talk with her about her daughters’ education and the HS where they’ve just started to attend. She’d been informed by people in the community that she should have her daughters placed in honors classes because the rest of the students were too rough at the HS.
Sitting next to her was another mother who uttered completely racist remarks about the other high schools in town, including the one where I work. Every time the Israeli mom asked a question, the other lady said, quite aloud, “Nice company, mexicans and blacks. Hmmm.” This was considerably milder than her first remarks which I told her were simply untrue.
What do you do when you hear such racism? What about when you hear someone believing it?
Ray Duray @ 138
Neat? Is this where you live?
And here is a link to a couple of pieces I have in the State of Georgia Collection. http://www.gpb.org/stateart/ar…..xander.htm
TexBetsy @ 139
Well, the first thing I’d do is to tell the woman commenting on the black & tans that you have a strong sense that Scarlett O’Hara really appreciates her keeping up our standards. If the woman’s a dullard, she won’t recall Margaret Mitchell. If she’s a clever racist she’ll give you a knowing wink. It’s likely that your new Jewish neighbor won’t catch the reference, but if she does, then you’ll know that the very best thing you can do is to organize a debutante ball.
Hi TB -
Monday looks OK from here. We’re going through the election campaign and they had the debate last night. Kevin Rudd, the Labor Party leader, did well against the odious John Howard.
Hope you get some sleep. Got to go eat dinner.
MR. Bill @ 140
TexBetsy @ 139
I absorbed a fair amount of old-fashioned Southern manners during my one miserable year at Washington & Lee. I tend to suffer fools rather than call them out. I’ll simply extricate myself from a conversation that heads in a direction I don’t like, rather than starting something that can spiral out of control. YMMV, of course.
You could, I suppose, take her aside if an opportunity presents itself and explain that what she is hearing is not representative of the attitudes of Austinians, Texans, or Americans (although that might be a bit of a fib).
You can’t really control what people choose to believe. It’s not hard to imagine a recent immigrant from Israel somehow mentally equating African-Americans and Hispanics to the underclass of her experience, the Palestinians. And you do get to choose who your friends are — you’re under no obligation to befriend this person if you find her views offensive.
burnspbesq @ 144
Not planning to befriend this new arrival, but my job involves working with immigrants and refugees and I would like to help her kids find the best schooling choices. Also, can’t wait to see the look on her face when she meets my Mexican niece who is in honors classes at the “other” high school.
burnspbesq @ 144
Sometimes, staring in shocked horror helps.
And if you know the real stats of the honors program, share them, and note that bright kids of all races share the program.
TexBetsy @ 139
Anecdotes about one black or one Latino person/family you know, is generally best. It’s non-confrontational, gets to the core of the matter and , personalized, people can relate to it more.
My 2 cents.
petedownunder @ 142
Hi Pete,
Say, I’m wondering if you’d care to comment on this analysis of a Rudd-Howard debate? http://www.wsws.org/articles/2…..-o22.shtml
I’ve been using the World Socialist website for years now and I find that it very often has the most trenchant and intelligent commentary about U.S. and Canadian labor issues and a very good grasp of the mendacity of U.S. imperialism across the planet.
But I’ve been wondering if they are reading Australia quite right. If so, then I feel sorry for you having as little real choice between the major parties down there as we do in the U.S.
As Gore Vidal has pointed out, in the U.S. we have a one party system. The Corporate Party, with two wings, the slightly right-wing Democratic wing, and the odious protofascist Republican wing.
Kevin Hayden @ 147
Like this blogger for instance?
TexBetsy @ 145
Is there open enrollment at the high school level in Austin?
Kevin Hayden @ 147
Kevin, yer right. Even the hardest core racists in my neck of the woods (and we’ve got lots of ‘em) has had some good relation or memory of a black or other ethnic person who they related to as a person. At least, in my experience.
burnspbesq @ 149
Not exactly but the school that the girls are at does not have a new immigrant program. Several other HS’s do, and there is parental choice in this case as one of the students is 10th grade and the other is 11th and the parents can choose to keep the girls in the same school.
Also, let’s not assume the Isaeli immigrant hates Palestinians. Many Israelis don’t. Try to direct her to places you’d send your own and say that. That ought to be convincing.
I think I’ll be fine working with the Israeli immigrant. But the lady who was sitting next to her at the dinner is someone I think I will avoid. Poisonous woman.
TexBetsy @ 148
If that’s the picture you wish to convey. I doubt you can guide her through every pertinent issue. I should think quality of education and personal safety would be the critical points in most urban settings.
Kevin, cassie is my niece. She comments here as Snarkassandra.
TexBetsy @ 153
I think avoiding vexatious people (is vexatious a word?) keeps the BP down. Good choice.
Cassie sounds like a very smart, assertive gal.
Well I think I am going to try to get some more sleep. Nice seeing you late nighters.
TexBetsy @ 158
Flights of angels, Texbetsy.
Editor & Publisher has an updated Valerie Plame article available.
The article includes a partial transcript which is handy.
Nite TB. I’m gonna check out, too. Nite all. See ya Ray.
Kevin Hayden @ 162
Kevin,
It was nice making your acquaintance. Always a pleasure to talk to a fellow progressive Oregonian. BTW, what do you think it might take to get the Microbiology Lab at the U of O to clone us another Sen. Wayne Morse? I sure miss that guy.
Ray Duray @ 160
Thanks, just added it. Night.
Sleep good Kevin.
MR. Bill -
What does the leafer touroid traffic look like in your neck of the woods at the moment?
Heading westward next weekend and wondering what the auto patterns might be doing a little further north of you.
So sorry to hear you’re still having the well problems but, given drought levels, not surprised to hear it. :-(
Waccamaw @ 165
Traffic was horrific in Ellijay, and the mountains in general are packed. A guy I work with did the Chera-haula road (Robbinsville NC to Tellico TN) and said it was fairly spectacular.
The folks I know in Asheville are sayin’ it’s peak or just past.
TexBetsy @ 164
C-Span2 now playing a 10-5-07 panel with:
Jon Lee Anderson – author The Fall of Baghdad
Phebe Marr – author The Modern History of Iraq
Ali Allawi – author The Occupation of Iraq
Also one or two others but it’s moving slowly at the moment as each of them speak for a prolonged period of time and it’s taking too long to get a complete list.
MR. Bill -
Thanks for the feedback.
Sounds like I can still expect heavy traffic on Sunday coming up on 26. Hope to reach Aville in time to catch a bit of the SE Animal Fiber Fair before it closes.
“NASA won’t disclose air safety survey”:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200….._secrets_3
snippet: Just last week, NASA ordered the contractor that conducted the survey to purge all related data from its computers.
Can we say “cover-up”?
Impeach Cheney First
Waccamaw @ 171
WOW-WA-WE-WAH! Who knew war could be so boring?
Ray -
NOT the war, darlin’; I was referring to the bloody panel! *g* Sorry if unclear. The usual panel format where everybody gets to spout their own views before the shorter responses interaction between participants begins. It was taking too long to get everybody’s name so that anyone interested in catching the session would miss a lot of content. If you were snarkin’ me, I’m sometimes slow to catch on with that sorta thing.
Has been pretty interesting thus far tho’ I’m missing a lot with trying to multi-task.
The Youtube at the top appears to have been scrubbed. What was it?
Waccamaw @ 176
Sweetheart, love means never having to apologize. You were perfectly crystal…. clear, dear. :)
I was referring in my weird way to the “war commenter class” as being boring. I’m sure the war is actually much more interesting than the talking heads I’m enduring.
BTW, I can tell you’re a smart pup, since you watch the least watched network on TV, Book TV. We are a minority of a minority, donchaknow.
Did you happen to catch Naomi Wolf’s stellar interview earlier today? Now that was good TV.
I’m not sure of this New Yorker panel. When some counterinsurgency wonk is telling me he needs to make a “framing comment” before he makes a comment, I’m afraid I’m thinking about how fun it might be to have Joseph Heller, Groucho Marx and Mel Brooks on this panel.
Good morning, pups. It’s Cohen and Krugman in the Times today. Mr. Cohen says he sees no alternative to investing blood and treasure in Afghanistan for years. Mr. Krugman says Alan Greenspan’s latest pronouncement — that the market rescue plan being pushed by Henry Paulson is likely to make things worse — looks all too accurate. Here’s Mr. Cohen:
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
Coffee and tea are all ready, and the biscuits just came out of the oven. Have a good day today.
Smgumby @ 177
Try refreshing or reloading the FireDogLake page. The YouTube segment works fine here. It is 2 minutes of Katie Couric’s interview with Valerie Plame. Alternately, a transcript can be read here.
Thanx Marion. Headed out… Catch y’all on the flip.
MR. Bill @ 168
We had to drive down to New Jersey from Upstate New York yesterday and I can tell you this:
Southern Tier – a week away from peak
Northern PA – about half there
Northern Jersey – about 30-40% there.
In Upstate New York, we are way behind. We usually hit the peak at Columbus Day Weekend. But things were very dry and slow. The color now is fantastic; as long as we don’t get windy/rainy weather this week, it should be fantastic this weekend.
Marion in Savannah @ 179
It’s always so amusing to read someone as daft, naive and hopelessly romantic as Mr. Cohen. He could very, very easily have been a guiding light of the British in their first stab at The Great Game. As Santayana wrote, those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Perhaps we should make the history of the “First Afghan War” required reading for our naive Mr. Cohen?
What follows is a “steal” from Wikipedia. I’ll put the hyperlink below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Afghan_War
***
Readers who would like to learn more about how America got into this god-forsaken mess in Afghanistan might wish to take a peek at George Criles’ “Charlie Wilson’s War” , a ripping yarn that is 1/3 bluster, 1/3 bravado and 1/3 CIA B.S.
Ray -
[snip]
Did you happen to catch Naomi Wolf’s stellar interview earlier today? Now that was good TV.
I’m not sure of this New Yorker panel. When some counterinsurgency wonk is telling me he needs to make a “framing comment” before he makes a comment, I’m afraid I’m thinking about how fun it might be to have Joseph Heller, Groucho Marx and Mel Brooks on this panel.
Was trying to remember who mentioned the Wolf interview earlier and it was you……didn’t manage to catch the entirety (sic?) in one sitting but did get most of it in two sessions. And, yes, it WAS a smasher. I had an immediate loathing of the interviewer and thought Wolf did a very understated put-down of the twit a number of times. So impressed that her book is now at the top of my “to buy” list.
LOL! Caught that “framing” bit too…….he’s betrayus’ “wonk”…….tells me all I needed to know about *his* views.
Good morning! Plame day!
So, it looks as though this self-styled empire is doomed to make all the mistakes of previous empires. I guess we shouldn’t expect better of a C student. I’ll bet Shrub was weak on history.
Good morning, egregious.
Ray Duray, thanks for your comment, and your links. I wonder if Mr. Cohen has ever even read Kipling?
Hey Lindy!
How are you doing this morning?
Waccamaw @ 184
Yes, Kilcullen the framing wonk personifies what Hannah Arendt described as “the banality of evil”.
As to the other evil bastard who was interviewing Naomi Wolf, his name is Viet Dinh. A man who will live in infamy as the chief architect of the odious, duplicituous, demented and fascist-leaning U.S.A. PATRIOT Act. Dinh is the Asian version of the parasitic class who created the KGB, the Stazi and the SS. He’s a real piece of work.
And I thought that Naomi Wolf handled his smarmy little fascist cant with aplomb and style. Especially when she called out the little rat for regurgitating Bush/Rove talking points. Naomi did delight me with her ability to counter the slimeball’s every attempt to get away with playing the “National Security” card.
Viet Dinh is a criminal. No one should think otherwise.
Marion in Savannah @ 188
Mr. Cohen lives in such a world of fantasy I assume he’s read nothing but J.K. Rowling.
(grumble grumble) hello again pups
after tossing and turning for a couple hours, here i am again (but without my kevlar and nomex mod hat)
Suzanne!
EG!
Awake and looking forward to reading the Wilson thread.
Mornin’ all!
Hey Suzanne!
Lindy @ 194
I got up early to get one of the seats in the front row.
Yeah, me too. How are you?
Black Monday, Part Deux?
hey twolf – so this is what the lake looks like in the daylight?
Lindy @ 198
Trying to think about too many things at the same time. Working on preparing for my move to California. New adventure/exciting/scary
2 US sailors shot to death in Bahrain
The alleged shooter, a male, was critically wounded in the shooting at the U.S. Naval Support Activity Bahrain base, said the Navy official, who was not authorized to release the information to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity.
Good Morning Pups!. Valerie was just interviewed by Meredith on the Today Show. Valerie Plame is one classy lady. Nothing new except Valerie did mention that she hoped that the American people would pay close attention to the administrations words about Iran. Meredith didn’t waste Valerie’s time by asking about her political leanings. Can’t wait until 1:30 et when Valerie is a guest of the lake.
Suzanne @ 201
Yeah, beautiful isn’t it? The pups are changing in to their bathing suits and inflating their water wings as the low lying mist slowly lifts off the placid morning waters of the lake.
morning!
Good Morning!
Morning all. I just read Teddy’s previous thread about Imus. FWIW, I love Imus. The racial comments were disgusting. But, there’s no bettere interviewer on TV. He’s the only one who asked Andrea Mitchell what she meant by that ‘everyone knew’ comment during Plamegate, he badgered Mary Matlin till she hung up on him, he hammered everyone over the issue of the immunization/autism issue, he criticized Joe Barton daily over his hold on that bill (and let his listeners know that Barton had called his boss to shut him up).
Honest, he was a true ally on many, many issues. And, his wife, equally so. One more thing, I don’t ever remember him lying. He supported Lieberman and dissed Ned Lamont (I never said he was perfect). But, he didn’t do it with lies. And many months after the election he ran into Lamont at an airport. He told his viewers what a gentleman Lamont was. Told us that Lamont approached them, introduced himself, and remarked on the election. Imus let us know that he was impressed.
And, FWIW, I think S-CHIP would have passed if Imus was still on the air.
So, while I love Teddy (truly and deeply) I’m looking forward to Imus’s return.
Ray -
Thanks for the expansion of what I knew about VD……and what in the name of Dog was C-Span doing allowing that POS a venue? The concept of “balance” is garbage. I will admit to being a junky for those three channels (if that’s what one calls them) but sometimes the big C *really* gets my goat!
Suz -
Plenty to “toss and turn” about these days! ;-(
Last time I had a sound night’s sleep was………oh……….something like seven/eight years ago.
allan_in_upstate @ 199
You didn’t get bushco’s memo? The economy is doing just super peachy keen; don’t worry…..go shopping. :-(
twolf -
That gets into a bit more detail wrt the military deaths than I caught earlier this morning. Lotsa leaks these days.
twolf1 @ 205
That’s really poetic. Thanks for the visual.
Iran’s hawks winning nuclear policy argument
Saeed Jalili, a close ally of Ahmadinejad, has replaced Ali Larijani, who had been backing a more pragmatic line in talks aimed at allaying the West’s suspicions that Iran is seeking to build atomic bombs, a charge Tehran denies.
Larry Johnson has a diary at DKos saying that Valerie’s life was directly threatened by Al Quaeda and she was denied protection. Never heard that before. Anyone asking her about that?
Remember when Halliburton decided to move its headquarters to Dubai? Well, kiddies, it looks like this was a very good move. AP is reporting: “(t)he most-recent results included a favorable income tax benefit of $133 million, or 15 cents a share.” http://tinyurl.com/35l4gx
That is to say, Halliburton simply doesn’t pay U.S. tax any longer on any work it does outside the U.S. And Bush and Cheney (ex-Halliburton CEO) continue to force-feed government contracts to these sleaze!
And in other news, it is being reported that the $9.013 Trillion dollar debt of the U.S. Treasury Dept. will increase at a 50% greater rate in FY 2008 than in the previous year due to shortfalls in income tax collection by the IRS.
People, we are being betrayed. What are we going to do about it? We are being betrayed by Nancy Pelosi by her failure to start impeachment proceedings
immediately!
solai, i read that diary when rayne linked to it earlier on late nite. totally pissed me off
tis a good guestion for her – i doubt i’ll be awake when she is here but am hoping that someone will ask – and that she will be able to answer
solai @ 208
Ditto!
solai,
I took your advice! thanks!
Waccamaw @ 209
Waccamaw,
The concept of “balance” is good. The execution of balance in the MSM is nothing short of fraud.
Al Gore did a great job of pointing this out in “An Inconvenient Truth”. There is currently about a 99% agreement among climate scientists that the rise in global temperature is human caused. And yet the MSM still offers skeptics and paid whores for oozy oil companies like Exxon to get about half of the media coverage. The public is being cheated by corporate media. Big time. And there simply isn’t anyone inside the Beltway to stand up for the People. Where is our Teddy Roosevelt railing against the “malefactors of great wealth”? Where are our trust-busters? We live in an age where the little guy no longer has a single effective friend in Washington.
Now I come from a construction background, and although it might upset Al Gore, I think that what we really need to do is to hire the Corps of Engineers to begin pushing Washington, D.C. out into the Atlantic where it might be made to do something useful such as creating artificial reefs to act as fish nurseries. In it’s present location, Washington is totally useless to this nation.
raven @ 215
Sing it!
And you know he’d be raggin’ like anything this morning if he were stuck in that cheesy, noisy, crappy new set.
Ray (tho’ you’ve probably moved up-thread) -
You’re very right about the “balance”…….I was being a bit too forceful earlier.
Agree with everything you’ve said @ 5:10.
Morning all. Fresh thread, up and running for everyone.