Valerie Plame Wilson will be our guest for a special FDL Book Salon for her book “Fair Game,” hosted by Sidney Blumenthal on Monday, October 22nd, at 10:30am -12:30pm PT/ 1:30-3:30pm ET. You won’t want to miss it.
What exactly do you call it when your own government screws you and your entire network of covert operatives and assets and damn the consequences? Just another day in Bushworld. Via ThinkProgress:
In her first interview since Bush administration officials outed her as a covert CIA agent, Valerie Plame Wilson reveals to CBS 60 Minutes that she was involved in preventing Iran from building a nuclear weapon. In the interview to be aired this Sunday, CBS reports that she was “involved in one highly classified mission to deliver fake nuclear weapons blueprints to Tehran.”
Word is that CBS didn’t bother to credit Larisa Alexandrovna for breaking that story back in February of 2006. But I’ll be watching Valerie’s interview on 60 Minutes this evening just the same — I’d bet that spine of steel of hers makes a bit of a showing during the interview.
This irks Plame Wilson. “I don’t know about (President Bush knowing about the leak beforehand). But I, like most other Americans, saw President Bush say on TV that he would fire anyone from his administration found to be involved in leaking my name,” she says. “It turns out the president is not a man of his word.”
The title, Fair Game: My Life as a Spy, My Betrayal by the White House, is drawn from a comment Mr Rove is said to have made about Ms Plame being “fair game”.
“The next time we were in line for Communion,” she writes, “I would pass him the wafer plate and whisper softly, ‘My name’s Fair Game, what’s yours?”‘
I’d like to think that at least gave Karl pause…but I know better. Larry Johnson has some details on the things that she can’t say out loud (due to court order, not because we haven’t all heard leaks about it from others at this point — how’s that for logic).
And for some reason this morning, this just needed saying again:
…Imagine that one day you wake up to the incessent ping of your beeper. It is still dark outside your window, and you slide out of bed, pad quietly down the hallway and try not to wake up the wife and kids, as you slip into your home office and place a call on a secure phone. You are told that your cover has been blown, that your family may be at risk. You have to make instant decisions for your own safety, that of your family, and of every asset you have in the field – and to do that, you have to prioritize which assets are more valuable and which you can afford to lose, if necessary. You have to decide then and there which of the people you cultivated, the ones you promised safety in exchange for information and cooperation, which of them may have to die because you may not have time to save them all.
Why has your cover been blown? Because you work as a CIA colleague of the wife of a man who dared to question the veracity of the President of the United States on a matter of national security, a matter of an exaggerated claim that was inserted in his State of the Union address to bolster his case for war in Iraq. And the President’s cronies and hatchet men decided to out this man’s wife for political payback, as a lesson to anyone else who would dare to question their decisions and as a means to staunch the bleeding from this initial salvo of criticism. Damn the consequences.
No consideration for all the lives interconnected in this network of agents and field assets, or the years it took to cultivate them. No thought of the impact that this betrayal by highly placed governmental officials would have down the line — how hard it would make it to recruit human intelligence assets in the field at the very time that we need them most to gather information inside the terrorist networks that threaten us more and more each day….
Betrayal isn’t nearly a strong enough word, now is it? And the people who betrayed you? One is still the Vice President of the United States. One was found guilty by a jury of his peers, only to be pardoned by the President as a sop to his 25 percenters. One just resigned on his own from his cushy WH job, after appearing before a Federal grand jury no less than five times. And any number of others are still smarming their way around the Beltway. How’s that for a karma backlash waiting to happen…
UPDATE: T- asked for some of these links in the last post as a prelude to Valerie’s 60 Minutes appearance. Thought others might enjoy them as well: Part I; Part II; Part III. That’s just the start on some of our older Traitorgate posts.




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Welcome back, Christy
all’s I can see is treason.
I thought she was on vacation.
Valerie Plame here! I am so psyched. She is one of my heroes.
Betrayal isn’t nearly a strong enough word, now is it? And the people who betrayed you? One is still the Vice President of the United States. One was found guilty by a jury of his peers, only to be pardoned by the President as a sop to his 25 percenters. One just resigned on his own from his cushy WH job, after appearing before a Federal grand jury no less than five times.
But Christy, all those people wear flag lapel pins. So they must all be Patriots.
(((((((Christy and Valerie!)))))))
I just have to cut through it all. “Impeachment is off the table”.
This is the side of the story the general public is oblivious to.
it’s chilling.
Valerie says “It turns out the president is not a man of his word.”
Talk about understatement.
the boy woke me up early this morning, so I had a chance to look over the drivel being pumped out by the AP. Here’s a quote:
Iraqis have routinely claimed civilians were killed as U.S.-led forces stepped up raids to try to root out extremists in Sadr City and other Shiite strongholds as part of an 8-month-old security operation to quell sectarian violence.
So, it’s now just “routine” for Iraqis to “claim” that civilians are being “killed” while US forces root out “extremists?”
gah.
Harmonic convergence?
Valerie Plame’s book tour appearances will remind all of America that Rethugs have to cheat to “win.”
Latest corollary–Mitt Romney’s “values” voters’ straw poll–yet another good buy.
When will the willful ignorance be shattered?
Demand better. Be better.
Hopefully Valerie’s speaking out will help toward that.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 5
time for a repeat of that John Prine song. anybody got the link?
If I was Plame, I’d be furious with the so called Democratic leadership. And particularly Nancy Pelosi.
Nancy is a failure.
Media update:
Valerie will be on 60 minutes tonight,
Today Show on Monday AM and Larry King with Amb. Wilson that night.
(And for the geeks STS120 on tuesday!)
Riesz Fischer @ 9
One thing seems apparent. We cannot accuse the Speaker of not being a person of her word. There will be no impeachment.
OKK — No one could ever accuse you of going off message, now could they? *g*
Sadly, (according to Rove) Rove isn’t an active Christian so Valerie won’t get the chance to whisper sweet things into his ears as she passes the communion plate.
Maybe Nancy and Harry should consider retiring to spend more time with their families ….
Has Hillary said anything yet about the FISA bill, or is she planning to be in the parade just ahead of the guy with the broom and the trashcan?
Sha at 17 — Actually, I think Rove and the Wilsons attended the same church in DC — so I believe that was something that happened, according to Valerie.
Oh, look! Now, courtesy of the Times Online we gets to think about the fact that Hillary “dumped” her cat Socks after leaving the White House.
Oh, joy.
Mitt the Twit on FTN is admitting he voted in Dem primaries so he could screw around with the results.
what egregious said
Outting her was treason and we have at least some evidence that this occurred with knowledge of the president. That’s not hyperbole, it absolutely fits the bill. I don’t think it gets anymore serious than that. Especially if it led to the death of one of our spies.
it makes me really sick
Riesz Fischer @ 9
Oh my. I better get more coffee!
I stayed up to see Orionid meteors last night, and my crossed eyes and short-circuited brain read that as,
“It turns out the president is not a man of this world.”
Pardon while I meditate and search for meaning there… ah-h-h heck with that… if it fits, you must convict…
Good Morning Christy. Welcome back, and Happy Birthday!
PSA -
i don’t know if it came off as planned, but larry johnson was supposed to do an interview with valerie yesterday (he’s using george kenney’s home studio set up and george will do the editing). i don’t know when larry plans to post it (maybe today?), but george is planning to cross post it at electric politics on tuesday (the day her book goes on sale).
anyway, i am looking forward to larry johnson’s interview far more than katie couric’s…
p.s. and if you are wondering how i know all this, it’s not because i’m a spy… it’s because i listened to george kenney’s most excellent interview with larry johnson on friday. if you’re not already, i highly recommend george kenney’s weekly podcast interview.
fahrender @ 12
Your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore.
fahrender @ 12
Your wish: John Prine’s Flag Decal
Want to thank Twolf for the great origami links.
Valerie and Joe will have bulls-eyes on their chests for awhile; I am so grateful to them both for their courage and patriotism, it’s hard to express. I was too shy to even speak to Joe at last YKos (06), even to Larry Johnson, although I had spoken with him briefly by email beforehand. That level of bravery and conviction puts me in awe, although I do remind myself that we are all capable of great things when motivated and that they are also people, just like me.
isn’t it time to sue for peace, much like the russian czarists at the end of WW I. does george know how to count?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 19
One would think that Karl Rove would have preferred Boy George’s Church of The Poison Mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41RqS9RDU_s
I’ll be there.
Hi selise.
Boyohboy, you are such a terrific beacon to good reading. Thanks!
Just a dumb question here from a partially “wired” generation:
is it possible to get podcasts, or any version of same content, on regular old standard model toobes on our desk at home? (we do have broad-band connection & seemingly plenty memory of the non-human variety) duh. Thanks.
Valerie Plame Wilson will be our guest for a special FDL Book Salon for her book “Fair Game,” hosted by Sidney Blumenthal on Monday, October 22nd, at 10:30am -12:30pm PT/ 1:30-3:30pm ET.
hmmm…. this doesn’t give me much time to put together a cleverly designed set of questions designed to convince Mrs. Wilson that she can do better than her present husband, subtly inform her that I’m available, and that her future would be brightened and enhanced immensely via a move into my glorious one-bedroom bachelor pad overlooking downtown Indianapolis, where it never rains, the people are all friendly (if a bit dull), and no one would ever “out” her as being my main squeeze…
(off to plot my campaign….)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 19
Another thing that I would really not want in my life is a former CIA agent that has a good reason to hate me. I’m sure she’s very good with weapons and other means of subtle persuasion.
If only the Wilson’s were not such above-the-board citizens…we would surely be rid of cheneyrovelibby and they would have very personal opinions of the effectiveness of waterboarding and secret prisons.
Does anybody believe that Scooter Libby won’t arise from
convicted-felon-land, like the Undead Eliot Abrahms,
to serve a future Republican president?
Larry’s announcement about the interview is here. Tuesday, he says.
dakine01 @ 27
I love that bit about Bush being nostalgic for his draft-dodging days.
allan_in_upstate @ 35
Aw Heck. He’s prolly already crafting signing statements as we speak.
Adie @ 32
absolutely – that’s what i do with my dsl all time. question number 1: do you have pc or mac?
TvSquad says Valerie is scheduled for The Daily Show sometime next week.
CalGeorge @ 20
IIRC, both Bill and Hill are allergic to cats. Socks is alive and well; living in Southern Maryland.
P J Evans @ 36
ah, thank you! i was hoping not to have to wait. *g*
Am I recalling things correctly when I say that the CW was that Ambassador Wilson was the target of the Administration’s wrath and that exposing his wife was just a hissy way of getting back at him? Back then, it was tinfoil hat-ish to suggest that Mrs. Wilson might have been the target all along, given her involvement in halting arms proliferation; at the time, I think that people (I certainly was) were thinking in terms of Iraq and the non-existent WMDs. Now, though, it seems that Mrs. Wilson was exposed PRECISELY because she was the linchpin in the CIA’s efforts to gain exact information about the state of IRAN’s nuclear weapons program, if such a thing existed.
There was a lot more planning and intentional action here than we gave anyone credit for, doesn’t it seem?
I would say it rises to the level of treason, IMHO.
Having met Valerie, I can tell you that the interviews she’ll be doing for this book tour are not likely to be helpful for the Bush Administration’s phonies. She’s incredibly poised and compelling but, beyond that, she’s straightforward and very, very well-informed. And she doesn’t truck bullshit lightly.
Should be a very interesting next few days…
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 37
It’s just a damn shame that Prine has had to return Flag Decal and Sam Stone to his active playlist once again.
CHS, here’s a youtube for you.
“Damn Squirrel”
selise @ 39
pc
Howie Annis Kurtz. gooper trophy husband had on the horrible Debra Saunders gooper whore and fake columnist to say Joe Wilson had really done the outing of his wife…of coure Howie the gooper husband couldn’t agree more with Debra
Adie @ 47
question 2: do you use itunes?
Christy Hardin Smith says
October 21st, 2007 at 8:09 am
She’s incredibly poised and compelling but, beyond that, she’s straightforward and very, very well-informed. And she doesn’t truck bullshit lightly.
damn. This doesn’t bode well for me…
allan_in_upstate @ 35
You would hard pressed to find anyone here who disagrees with you on that point. Scooter is an Aspen Group Neocon Mastermind. He is a much bigger fish than many realize. Those of us who followed the Libby Trial here were made privy to that knowledge. Its unfortunate that most Americans don’t even know who he is anymore (if they ever did). Complicit Media.
katherine Graham Cracker @ 48
I like the way you talk.
behindthefall @ 43
Right – we were thinking all along that it was a two-fer – although we didn’t know the extent of the damage then, nor the extent of how she was protecting EVERYONE from loose nukes.
selise @ 49
I haven’t a clue how, BUT my sweetie here does.
However, he just said that if it’s relevant, he does not use it to buy downloads of music (just copies our own CDs on it, I believe).
Hello Zen! ((((hug))) Hippo Birdy, Christy!! (((Hug)))
Christy Hardin Smith @ 44
I’m sure the Wilsons have taken some security precautions. Cuz the Thugs are going to go after them with everything they’ve got. They’ll publish their personal information, including pictures of their house.
hackworth at 51 — A lot more Americans know than would have otherwise. Which was one of the big reasons that Jane and I tried to shine as much light as we could on all of this. Jane feels, and I wholeheartedly agree with her on this, that the asshats who manipulated things behind the scenes with Iran-Contra should have had the same sort of exposure. Because without it, they just keep popping up over and over in some sort of odious parade of perfidy. And without public exposure of this rot, the same would be true of the participants in Traitorgate.
But with public exposure comes the consistent tag of “involved in the outing of a CIA NOC” that gets to follow them through their public life from now on. It’s not full justice, but it’s definitely better than nothing.
CHS -
Hope the good folk behind the scenes are girding the loins of the servers in prep for tomorrow. *g*
Many thanks for bringing Ms. Plame to the Lake; it’s gonna be a good day………..and there ain’t been many of those runnin’ around loose recently in the news department.
A lazy Sunday — a good day to click on the link up right and go to Amazon.com and buy Valerie’s book.
In fact, buy 2. One for you and one for your local library.
Willful ignorance being stamped out one American at a time.
[signed] one p*ssed-off Constitutional Democrat
selise @ 25
Larry Johnson has this posted at his site:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2…..n-the-can/
Prairie — You can buy Valerie’s book, knowing that Rush Limbaugh was whining about it on Friday on his show. Buy it for a whole host of reasons…one of the many being the fact that Rush doesn’t want you to do so. *g*
Since the President’s commutation of Scooter’s sentence, has there been any further investigations by Congress into the whole Plame affair?
With the dark cloud over the VP’s office, why haven’t any of the known players been subpoenaed before either of the Intelligence Committees?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
Thank you guys for that. Invaluable! Also, doesn’t the exposure you provide help, in some measure, to protect the Wilsons? At least, one can hope. They are incredibly brave people.
behindthefall @ 43
To drop the other shoe: in other words, there was a plan to attack Iran ‘way back before Ambassador Wilson was sent off to look for yellow cake deals, and that plan required that the CIA not be able to pipe up and say that they knew the true state of affairs inside Iran; there had to be the ability to sell the attack on the basis of false or non-existent ‘information’. Just like Iraq. And Mrs. Wilson was just too d**ned good! She and her big, effective operation had to go. (Sorry; I refuse to believe that nobody in the Executive Branch knew about the ops against Iran. Somebody was asking questions during, perhaps, visits to Langley.)
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 46
that was good :)
smapdi @ 40
Hmmmm. Unlikely. I think Stewart and Colbert are both off this coming week. Website not updated and I think I heard Stewart mention being away on Thursday’s show.
Jon has a pretty new webpage tho….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
Absolutely. Too bad there were no internet tubes around for the Contra debacle. You and Jane, et al, are patriots in the truest sense. Thank You for all of your excellent reporting. Now you are sharing guests with national television media. I am happy and proud to say that I know you in a blog way.
Christy, FDL’s outstanding coverage of traitorgate is what brought me to this amazing site. Unfortunately I’ll be working during tomorrow’s book salon. Boy do I hate missing that!
Thank you and Jane and Marcy and everyone else here for your valiant coverage of this story along with everything else.
To Valerie:
I’m very disappointed that you were not allowed to move forward with your lawsuit. I await the day that all of those who betrayed you get the retribution they deserve–even if it’s in their next life.
My heartfelt thanks and admiration to you and your husband for your courage, deadication and service to truth; and for defending the real America, her citizens and her constitution. May you have long and blessed lives.
It makes you wonder that much more about one of the other details about Iran in Risen’s book.
That starts off the chapter in Risen’s book that later describes Merlin.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 61
Doubtless he’ll be whining about it again on Monday’s Morning Joe. Wonder if they’ll have the muzzle on Mika again?
I know, I know, but gak! I can’t wait for Imus’ return. Would love to see Imus on the upstart RFD Network and then a segue into simulcasting Ed Schultz’ show. Both cowboys in their own way…perfect way for a teeny cable network to build a brand.
[and speakin’ of upstarts, yay! my Bison–whuppin’ ass on the Minnesota Gophers. Sorry, Pammie.]
selise @ 25
update: and posted info about the book salon with Val over there in comments.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2…..ment-35631
Adie @ 32
THis will embarrass our darling selise, but I just want to let you guys know that in the middle of all the incredible things she does for us here, she has also been helping me with an incredible selection of “audiofiles for tired eyes” as I recuperate from my surgery. I can’t tell you how generous a heart that converys to me and I have been looking for another opening to sing praises to her.
((((((((((((((selise)))))))))))))))))))
Does anyone know if Valerie’s book will actually be in stores this next week?
I always get a kick out of picking up a doozie like that in person and gushing about it as I plop down cash. No plastic. I’m not that brave. But paranoid? At this point, yes.
Mary @ 69
A friend visited Japan about seven years ago. The japanese were using small computers about the size of a cell phone at that time. Large numbers of young japanese could be seen everywhere with their heads down accessing the internet with hand held devices. My friend knew that he had seen our future. That was an indication of how the Conservatives had allowed our technology to fall behind by many years.
{{{{{zennurse)))))
Heal well hon! Yes. Selise is a gem. So are you ma’dear!
Adie at 73 — It comes out on Monday, so it should be available for purchase then.
Lousiana elects new gooper governor–it’s official- LA is now gooper- through and through- Neglect in NO leads to Gooper dynasty.
anyone have rove’s forwarding address? i’d love to send him a copy.
and a copy to judy. scooter. every member of congress.
hmmmm….
rosalind @ 78
Yes. Hmmmmmmm……
Adie @ 54
excellent!!! then we’ll use itunes for your player (which is good, because that’s what i use – however,i’m on a mac… but hopefully it will be the same)
there are three basic ways to get audio files into itunes: downloading (some are free, some you have to pay for), importing from a cd or copying from your desktop.
we’ll do the “from your desktop” option, since your sweetie doesn’t use the itunes store…. and we’ll use electic politics as our example.
does that make sense?
if you like it, you can set up itunes to automatically download your favorite podcasts as they become available by “subscribing” to them, for free, in the itunes store.
***the electric politics website isn’t loading properly at the moment so, i used the democracy now website instead.
rosalind @ 78
No. We are not going there. Do not publish anybody’s home address.
I’m just happy to see Valerie get on the MSM to talk about her book. So many books critical of the Bush administration seem to get no real TV time. Anyone know what other shows she’ll be on?
solai at 82 — I believe she’s also booked for the Today Show Monday morning. But I’m just catching up on e-mail and such after getting home from my trip, so I’ve likely missed something. I’m sure others will know…
zennurse!! you embarrass me! … let’s just say that your good example brings out the best in people.
Anybody hear a mention on Reliable this morning that [some] political candidates’ campaigns were muttering about Colbert and making an issue that his show constitutes a Corporate Contribution?
If that’s accurate reporting, hey, candidates, bring it. Colbert would luvvvvvvvvvv to discuss the way you raise money. Chinese dishwashers and cooked straw polls, indeed.
The beauty of Colbert’s “campaign” is he can make a perfect straight-faced response that the field’s full of jokers already.
Demand better. Be better. Each in our own way.
60Minutes, Today and Larry King on monday, and perhaps the daily show next week. I checked around and didnt find any more hits.
egregious @ 81
even i agree with that!!
I’m watching ‘This Week’. Tommy Lasorda had a brief spot talking about his new book. Colbert was on MTP to talk about his. Will Valerie get these opportunities?
From a purely enertainment perspective, I’d love to see her on Colbert. Would that be great or what?
solai @ 82
Here’s another reason to be grateful she’s so stunningly beautiful. (Sorry, Valerie, we all know you’re also smart, savvy and poised.) Because if that gets her more airtime, I’m glad of it. :)
I just heard Bill Kristol say that Iran is the ONLY threat remaining in Iraq. Geez, I never realized Iraq would be a paradise by now if it weren’t for that meddling Iran, why don’t we just take ‘em out?
I sure wish we had had someone smart like Mr. Kristol advising us when we were considering invading Iraq!
Oh, wait, nevermind.
selise @ 87
He resides under rocks or in decaying wood.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
Absolutely, and that’s where we can come in: we must not let the end of the Bush admin spell the end of a shining light on all the crimes we as yet have not discovered. But with Christy and Jane (and Pach, emptywheel and Scarecrow, selise and every other guest contributer) at the helm, I don’t worry at all, just log on and await input and direction.
rosalind @ 78
Where they all should be.
smapdi @ 86
Excellent. Thanks for the info.
Kathryn in MA @ 55
Hey, sweetie, so good to seeya, nice day, yes? Folks are swimming at the beach outside my windows.
allan_in_upstate @ 94
Dangit! You are too fast, I didn’t get the link together fast enough. One mistake, he hasn’t moved in quite yet, but the real estate is ready and waiting for him (them)!
joeshit, the rag man @ 88
And her husband says: “It gives a whole new meaning to the term “Yes, Dear”
IIRC
:)
zennurse @ 93 -
hey, i’m only a commenter like you. but, even us lowly commenters can be inspired by our hosts to do what we can. *g*
dakine01 @ 45
thanks, thunder, and dakine. there’s just somethin’ about listening to john and reading FDL at the same time that agrees with me ……
Fresh thready goodness, up and running for anyone who wants one…
New Christy thread
selise @ 80
Selise, I’m a Mac user. When I click on the MP3 link, it loads and begins to play. I can’t find it on my desktop (no icon) and I don’t have any idea how to get it into iTunes. I am a longtime Mac user, but haven’t explored iTunes much….but now I have a new iPhone, so…
msmolly @ 103
control click (or right click if u have a 2 button mouse) on the mp3 link. a menu will appear – select ‘download linked file’ and it will download the mp3 to your desktop.
twolf1 @ 104
or “option” “click” for an immediate download.
when you just “click” on the mp3 link, it loads the file into your browser… not what you want here…
msmolly, if you’ll try again (with any of the options above)… i’ll hang out here with you until you get it to work.
egregious @ 81
egr – ??? i dont’ know how you got that out of my comment. not my intent. simply expressing a desire for everyone responsible to have to actually read an account of their actions.
Zen – swimming in October in Massachusetts! will be more tomorrow – supposed to be in the 80s. Even Fox news (ptui) said it must be global warming.
(((selise!)))
hey kathryn!
been checking in this thread every little bit to see if msmolly was able to get the mp3s to download.
hoping it worked out ok!
Selise at 80
Thankyou so much! I’ll go get my Ipod-savvy honey and make sure he sees this. Heck, I may have to go get me an Ipod for myself one of these days. heh.
Meanwhile, I still like the big keyboard & monitor gadget for unlaxing and really concentrating on a good read. But I’m so tempted by the idea of some of those Podcasts I didn’t think were available before…
You’re a sweetie!
Sorry, Selise, I had to go out for a bit (reading this on the iPhone), but if I can’t figure it out with your directions when I get home, I’ll catch you on a later thread. THANKS!!
Adie @ 110 –
you don’t need to listen to podcasts on an ipod… you can listen to them from your desktop/laptop. i have an old airtunes which lets me stream audio to my stereo in the living room… so i do chores and stuff around the house while listening to podcasts. never even got an ipod until i got an old small one for $60.
msmolly @ 111
no problem… i’m doing other stuff and just was checking in here now and again.
there’s so much interesting stuff available by podcast – i’m like an evangelicist who wants to convert everyone else…. :-)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 57
? for you christy. why do you think bill clinton did not expose iran contra?
Selise @113:
Thanks, I did download it. I dragged it into iTunes (it went into “recently added” under Playlists, although I dragged it into the Library. It also is playing and I can’t figure out how to stop it. And of course I have to get it onto the iPhone, but I think there are instructions for that.
I never had an iPod, but I drag my laptop all over the house because I stream radio on it. When I got my hands on a friend’s iPhone I decided it was a must have, and I sold my Treo on eBay and got one. Now I have to learn how to use something my grandkids can all do in their sleep!
Enough of this nonsense. Impeach the spineless cowards who outed Valerie Plame Wilson. Or better yet drop the yellow bellied lilly white assed cowards down in the middle of Baghdad butt ass naked and let them run for it.
Enough of this f—ing nonsense!
Kathleen @ 116
We’re probably EPU’d, but I agree 200%!!
I hope Plame’s role in Iranian counterproliferation efforts did not include the previously detailed misadventure of passing nuclear weapon plans to the Iranians. Containing the spread of nuclear technology is a crucial and worthy goal. The CIA’s actions in this regard are not as pure as the driven snow by any means. We are seeing the surface effects of turf wars and other maneuverings within the political, security and military bureaucracies. We have no idea what games are really being played.
The CIA insisted on transferring plans for an older nuclear weapon to the Iranians. The plans were moderately altered so that a weapon built from those plans would not detonate properly. The fellow passing on the plans thought that the modifications were sophomoric, and to save his own skin he detailed to his contact what those changes were. The Iranian’s now, certifiably, have far more information about the design of a functional nuclear weapons than they previously had.
Plame should not have been outed; that is treason and all those involved deserve punishment commensurate with the crime. In no circumstance should she have been outed as payback for Wilson’s going public. The impacts on her work and assets is a story that still needs to be fleshed out to understand fully the damage that was done.
However, the CIA has not shown itself to be particularly adept in understanding Iran, on many levels, from the 50’s through the overthrow of the Shaw and the seizure of the US embassy are enormous lapses. And the behavior of the CIA in the run up to the Iraq invasion, and with regard to Iran currently does not instill much confidence, either. True, Plame’s outing and the roll up of her contacts and network does not assist this work in any fashion. It appears that lower and mid-level analysts got the story right, while upper management and the political appointees (Tenet) were too easily swayed to support Cheney, caved and rewrote reports to the contrary of the intelligence.
But please, let’s not get too starry eyed about our swashbuckling, photogenic spies and the nobility of the CIA’s work. Plame’s and Wilson’s motives are clearly superior and more correct than those of Cheney and Rumsfeld, but that’s not very encouraging. Let’s be a bit more measured in our praise until we learn more fully of all the facts involved.
It is regrettable that her book has been so highly (and most likely politically) censored. She should be able to tell her story in full and defend herself from all of the baseless accusations leveled against her.
CalGeorge @ 20
Not sure how any candidate can really care for a pet while being a candidate. It would constantly be in a kennel (or the equivalent for cats) while the candidate is on the campaign trail. I think Hillary did something quite reasonable, give the cat to someone that she knew would give it the love and attention it needs.
I would seriously wonder if any of the candidates have a pet, and if they do, who cares for it while the family is travelling.
Mary @ 69
That is unlikely to have been Plame, as she was pretty much pulled off duty after she was “outed” in July 2003. Very likely, if this actually occurred, it was done by a replacement who was rolling up her network. Or it may have been someone not even in the Counter-Proliferation Division. There ARE other operational units in Iran collecting data on a variety of other issues.Plame would not have been associated with “running” those agents/informants.
Valerie Plame/Wilson and Joe Wilson are true patriots and National heroes. Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, Ari Fleisher, and Cheney should all be in prison for outing her and undermining US National Security. Did I forget to say that Robert Novak needs a cell too.
jon @ 118
I think you are taking the leaked revelations about Operation Merlin at face value. I think that it’s just a little bit bizarre that Operation Merlin was leaked to James Risen in 2006…just as the evidence that Plame WAS an active covert agent working on Iranian non-proliferation was being disclosed.
And that leak wasn’t just of the raw program…it included the so-called Russian-Iranian exposure of the “flaws”.
Seems that the leak was intentional to me. Someone wanted to denigrate her activities. So who would have known about the Russian intermediary-Iranian link…or was that simply bogus spin by some White House flunky.
I suspect that if the CIA did this (Operation Merlin) they would only have placed a “gimmick” in the system that could only have been detected at the final field testing level. Nuclear testing is essential simply beause the data isn’t there to adjudged the critical levels of explosives necessary to trigger the chain reaction vs. improperly breaching the containment vessel and merely spreading the materials. Any aspiring nuclear power has to test. Only recently have enough tests been performed by the US that computer simulations can replace physical testing.
The goalby the CIA would be to screw up the test so that the non-nuclear trigger would detonate at a detectable level, while at the same time failing to initiate the chain reaction. Unfissioned nuclear material would be released atmospherically or in the ground-water and there would be a seismic signature of a significant trigger explosive (and the CIA would know precisely the strength that explosive device was designed to be).
That would tell the US that the Iranians had attempted a test but that the Merlin triggers had screwed it up. Since manufacturing weapons-grade uranium is such a time consuming process the Iranians would likely require another year to sufficiently build up for another test…and without an appropriate trigger. By then the world would be in an uproar about the Iranians testing nukes after they asserted that the regime was only interested in civilian uses. In fact, there might well be internal resentment…since this line is even being fed to Iran’s own people.
If what I mention above sounds at all familiar…recall the mysterious nuclear test by the North Koreans that clearly didn’t produce a detonation of a substantial nuclear device…yet apparently did release unfissioned material into the atmosphere or ground water from the explosion. In fact, until this additional information was collected many doubted that the North Koreans had even tested a nuclear device. Clearly the trigger failed, and NK would have lost the fissionable material (which would have been contaminated).
Then suddenly, despite everyone concerned saying that North Korea was likely to undertake a second test “soon”…it never happened. WHY? Because they lacked confidence in their triggers..and they didn’t want to waste their limited high quality isotope on another failure.
I suspect there was a successful Operation Merlin pulled by the CIA’s counterproliferation group that screwed up the triggers. And once everyone KNEW that North Korea was THAT close to developing nuclear weapons the worlds powers, including Russia and China, to put great pressure on the North Koreans. The failed test triggered this increased political pressure…while the North Koreans knew that they had “blown their wad” and lacked operational triggers. A second test would have produced a similarly anemic outcome. They had “outed” themselves prematurely…and had to negotiate away their program (essentially falling back to the Clinton era compromises worked out by Carter and Richardson).
In addition, puzzle me this, if Iran had the imput of someone so adept at detecting disguised technological flaws of nuclear triggers to be able to them in the design…then why did they need the schematics in the first place. THAT individual could have designed the triggers for them!
And why would a Russian do this? Russia and it’s erstwhile Southern Republics are just as much threatened by an Iran with a nuclear bomb as are the Persian Gulf regimes. He could have said…”yeah these are great schematics” and collect his consultancy fee and simply walked away knowing someone had screwed over the Iranians…and this wouldn’t be detected for a decade. But what if “Boris” didn’t actually detect the flaws, but was tasked (by Russian intelligence) to introduce his own flaw into the system. The way to do that would be to assert…”This won’t work…something is wrong here…and here is how you fix it.” Then the “fix” contained the Russian flaw. Thus there might actually be two systemic errors in the system.
BUT if someone in the Bush Administration leaked the information to Risen last year to undercut Plame’s credibility…and there actually was NO Soviet Scientist (Boris) that blew the CIA’s operation…then that leak sacrificed a still viable program that could have seriously impeded the Iranians using these for weapons. NOW THEY DO KNOW THE TRIGGERS ARE TAINTED. It also undercut the CIA/NSA’s ability to monitor WHEN the Iranians reached the point where they had enough fissionable material to test a weapon. The Iranians certainly won’t use those triggers and seek out others. Such a leak would be treasonable… just like the original Plame exposure… and set back our defenses from rogue states and terrorists obtaining these weapons by decades.
And given that the leak of Plames identity occurred back in 2002…perhaps the whole story about Operation Merlin and the screw-up by the female CIA officer manning the Iranian desk was simply yet another effort to use the NY Times to taint Plame by innuendo.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 19
Oh, wow. I hope that did really happen. I’ll watch for more on that tomorrow. Thanks!
In a further disaster in a Poland led by conservatives, too few ballots were available at the polling stations. Poll results suffer major delays
msmolly @ 115
i’m glad you got it playing… learning a bit about itunes is worth it, i think… to keep your files organized, etc.
good luck!
I don’t think Bush pardoned Scooter as “a sop to the 25 per centers.” I’m certain it had more to do with Libby’s extensive knowledge of lies and deceptions of very high level folks.
cinnamonape @ 122
Some food for thought there that needs some chewing over.
My understanding was that the Iranian’s were informed of the deficiencies in the nuke design at, or shortly after, the hand off. I don’t recall that the Iranian’s ever sought the weapon design, more that it was forced upon them and they didn’t hand it back.
IF the Iranian’s had been work on a nuke design, and IF they followed the compromised design faithfully, and IF everything else went according to plan, THEN a low yield with confirming seismic and radiation signatures would be conclusive evidence. Events have shifted now and that premise will likely never be tested in fact. Is that what happened in North Korea? Maybe. But I have not heard anything to that effect. It could just be that a high yielding warhead is hard to do and they don’t have the skills or resources to pull it off.
But aiding the production of a nuclear weapon, where after a failed test, the builder’s would have enough data to correct the deficiency in the next one, just doesn’t strike me as all that clever. There’s long been a great deal of data available on the design and fabrication of nuclear weapons. About 30 years ago it was shown that a physics grad student could design a rudimentary, functional warhead using only open source data. If you want to build a nuclear weapon, you probably want to look at as many designs as possible, to increase your knowledge and to permit you to build the best, most advanced or elegant design at the outset. A good physicist might study the plans, locate the flaw and remedy it before the test. The effort to transfer plans, flawed though they might be, strikes me as treasonous. At best, horribly misguided, sort of like sending the Ayatollah a birthday cake in the shape of a key, along with a bible…
Your recounting is the first I have heard of the mechanics of the roll up of Plame’s network. It would go without saying that the Iranian nuclear industry would be heavily populated by security and political ‘operatives’. I’d like to know more, if you have the cites.
Could the story leaked to Risen be an effort to further smear Plame? Maybe. Many things may be true. I would say that sufficient evidence to make an informed judgment doesn’t yet exist. Not for me, anyhow. It is, however, beyond question that the White House went to extraordinary lengths to smear and destroy Plame and Wilson.
However, I’ve always found it curious that Wilson maintained that there was no Iraqi effort to source uranium from Africa, on the basis of his trip to Niger. I believe that he accurately found that uranium ore could not have been moved legally, or in large quantities without detection from Niger.
That, however, leaves the potential for collusion in the movement of uranium out of Niger, particularly overland. It also leaves other uranium producing countries in Africa that Wilson did not investigate.
Did Wilson do other research, heretofore undisclosed? Did he have access to other research on other nations and the security of their nuclear industries? Has he extrapolated to the general from his specific case? I don’t know as that has been asked or answered adequately. The UK continues to hold to their claim of ‘multiple’ intelligence sources for the Iraqi program, without releasing any detail. They may not be lying about everything.
Myself, I was certain that Saddam would reconstitute his nuclear program (and other weapons) if he had a clear shot and thought he could manage it. We knew he had an ample supply of yellowcake under UN seal in Iraqi warehouses. There was no compelling necessity for him to seek more yellowcake, if that is what he truly wanted right then. Therefore, it seemed somewhat obvious the the NCB weapon claims were strained and simply a handy argument to justify an invasion. Maybe even better if the evidence could never be produced, as he would then be shown to be continuing to refuse to hand it over. Saddam colluded in his own demise by his prior reluctance to demonstrate just how thin his defensive capabilities really were.
Iran now seems to be lined up for more of the same. Maybe they’re sourcing a nuke, maybe not. I’d rather not. But the issue is being used to justify putting the machinery of war into place for a massive bombing campaign only peripherally concerned with their putative nuclear program.
I would think that Pakistan’s well proven acquisition of nukes and proliferation efforts is vastly more destabilizing than any effort of Iran’s. So is Israel’s, almost certain, nuclear weapon inventory. It seems that we do most of our trade and foreign aid with nuclearized countries, so I’m not sure we have that much to fear from Iran.
And I think that there is essentially no chance that any government would willing permit a nuke to be transferred to a terrorist group. It’s a toy you keep for yourself. ISI could have proliferated to al Qaeda, instead they chose governments. There is a strain of thought (still to be fully proven) that suggests that nuclear weapons forces governments to assume greater maturity.
As for the DPRK ‘test’, one explanation for the ‘fizzle’ yield was that they didn’t want to show off too much and call down an air strike. They could have sandbagged themselves and been satisfied with the results of a ‘fizzle’ that met their calculated value.
I don’t think that they wanted a nuke, necessarily. I think they wanted the US to deliver on prior promises that W reneged upon. W wasted what, 4 years?, only to wind up with the deal they had before, and the DPRK wound up with a bone fide weapon for their trouble. More to the point, by being belligerent and forging ahead with their weapons program, they ensured that they would not be invaded, bombed or overthrown. I’d say they won.
But the bottom line here is that Plame, Wilson, and others were villified for trying to do their jobs well, tell the truth as they saw it, and set the record straight. The country was lied into invading another country on false pretenses, and the engineers of that have not been punished. Thousands of dead and wounded americans. Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. Trillions of dollars spent and our military hollowed out. And it seems that we are on course for more of the same in Iran. Why this doesn’t lead the news all day, every day; why the country hasn’t forced a change, I understand but can’t accept.
allan_in_upstate @ 35
It’s possible. We just need to keep the Republicans out of office long enough…
I saw this.
jayt @ 33
What is all the fuss about Larisa Alexandrova’s 2006 report? Wayne Madsen Report had this on July 31/August 1, 2005, in much greater detail. http://www.waynemadsenreport.c…..0070409_7. Under this scenario, the exposure of valerie was necessary because Brewster Jennings was getting close to some of Cheney’s closest business and political associates in Turkey. The exposure was thus much more sinister than mere negligence.
Joe Wilson @ 129
OOPS Jayt. You busted! *g*
Joe Wilson @ 129
I saw this.
Ha! I needed a good laugh!
Thank you Ambassador!
I just wanted to update this thread about Mrs. Wilson’s media plans:
http://www.thedailyshow.com valerie plame&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=firefox-a”>The Daily Show Tuesday the 30th
Ambassador Wilson, if you happen to recheck this post, I just want to wish you and Valerie the best and hope you can get some satisfaction that you did the right thing… The more light that gets shed on the criminals we have in office, the better! The two of you have certainly illuminated some things the public needs to know about.
Please pass along my best wishes to her!
cinnamonape @ 122, thanks for that thorough breakdown. Termites, they are.
Isn’t it curious that AQ Khan was discovered to be selling nuke ’secrets’ to N Korea and Libya and perhaps others and that when he was found out he wasn’t severely punished. It would seem he and the Pakistani government were working with our CIA on Merlin (or a companion program). Why would there have been a Russian scientist involved in the transfer to Iran? Why wouldn’t it have been a Pakistani scientist?
If it’s true the network in Iran was ‘rolled up’, then there would have to have been some cover story provided, some reason for doing it. There’s probably a record somewhere in CIA archives.
I suppose the whole idea started back during the 1980s (if not before that) since Mr. Bhutto was ousted and hanged way back when and his daughter Benazir was also kicked out a time or two before we got Musharref. He has apparently been a pretty good ally for some time. But, now Benazir Bhutto has gone back. What can we make of this? Has the project finished and now they’re returning Pakistan to it’s regularly scheduled Democracy?
When does America get to return to it’s regularly scheduled program of Democracy?
BTW, I consider B. Bhutto incredibly courageous for going back to Pakistan as she did. Facing an assassination plot must muddle one’s brain rather quickly. I hope she survives and thrives and helps us crush the enemy (whomever they are and whereever they are).
Just because somebody says the Taliban are our enemy doesn’t make it so. Remember, it was the Pakistani ISI and our CIA who formed the Taliban and installed it in Afghanistan. We wanted stability there. Now it appears somebody doesn’t want stability there, but is okay with poppy crops there.
Remind me, why is they call George H. W. Bush “Poppy”?
Such a shame that Valerie and Joe have had to exile themselves to New Mexico. DC is just too toxic and rancid now.