Comments on: A Question Of Who We Ought To Be http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/ Firedoglake weblog Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:13:21 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048536 MarkH Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:15:30 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048536 <p><a href="#comment-1047895"><em>crossedcrocodiles @ 74</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>The critical piece I see missing in the teaching of Civics, is the role of taxes. Taxes provide governments the money to accomplish all the things that citizens want and expect. One of the great corporate Republican triumphs has been to convince people that taxes are wrong. Nobody likes to pay taxes. But it is critically important to understand what they are. I see repeated over and over on TV some person in the street interview, or email quoted, that says some version of: the people should pay less and the government should pay more. It repeatedly demonstrates a true failure of understanding.</p></blockquote> <p>Maybe what we should put up is a webpage showing federal government programs and their spending and graphs showing government revenues flowing in or debt building up.</p> <p>Seeing it all graphically could be very educational and perhaps enlightening!</p> crossedcrocodiles @ 74

The critical piece I see missing in the teaching of Civics, is the role of taxes. Taxes provide governments the money to accomplish all the things that citizens want and expect. One of the great corporate Republican triumphs has been to convince people that taxes are wrong. Nobody likes to pay taxes. But it is critically important to understand what they are. I see repeated over and over on TV some person in the street interview, or email quoted, that says some version of: the people should pay less and the government should pay more. It repeatedly demonstrates a true failure of understanding.

Maybe what we should put up is a webpage showing federal government programs and their spending and graphs showing government revenues flowing in or debt building up.

Seeing it all graphically could be very educational and perhaps enlightening!

]]> By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048534 MarkH Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:12:42 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048534 <p><a href="#comment-1047879"><em>Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 67</em></a></p> <blockquote><p><em>“The US arms industry is backing Hillary Clinton for President and has all but abandoned its traditional allies in the Republican party. Mrs Clinton has also emerged as Wall Street’s favourite. Investment bankers have opened their wallets in unprecedented numbers for the New York senator over the past three months and, in the process, dumped their earlier favourite, Barack Obama.”</em> </p></blockquote> <p>Hillary is winning the Republican primary!</p> Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 67

“The US arms industry is backing Hillary Clinton for President and has all but abandoned its traditional allies in the Republican party. Mrs Clinton has also emerged as Wall Street’s favourite. Investment bankers have opened their wallets in unprecedented numbers for the New York senator over the past three months and, in the process, dumped their earlier favourite, Barack Obama.”

Hillary is winning the Republican primary!

]]> By: Dr Zen http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048377 Dr Zen Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:13:46 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048377 <p>Anyone would think you did not have a long history of buttfucking the rest of us! One war on the right side and that’s carte blanche for the millions your policies have sent to an early grave.</p> <p>Your “values”? The heedless pursuit of the dollar and disdain for the rest of the world. We know who you are. It’s you who doesn’t have a clue.</p> Anyone would think you did not have a long history of buttfucking the rest of us! One war on the right side and that’s carte blanche for the millions your policies have sent to an early grave.

Your “values”? The heedless pursuit of the dollar and disdain for the rest of the world. We know who you are. It’s you who doesn’t have a clue.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048288 Ian Welsh Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:05:58 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048288 <p>He’s speaking up for globalization as well. There’s a thorn in that rose.</p> He’s speaking up for globalization as well. There’s a thorn in that rose.

]]> By: mls http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048053 mls Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:53:44 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1048053 <p><a href="#comment-1047842"><em>Jim Clausen @ 36</em></a></p> <blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1047837"><em>Laura Doty @ 32</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Hear, hear Jim C. and </p> <p>Happy Birthday.</p> <p>Gracious this lake ABOUNDS with Librans!</p></blockquote> <p>Thanks much. We Librans are special don’t you think?</p></blockquote> <p>Yes we are. It’s all about the wanting fairness and harmony methinks.</p> Jim Clausen @ 36

Laura Doty @ 32

Hear, hear Jim C. and

Happy Birthday.

Gracious this lake ABOUNDS with Librans!

Thanks much. We Librans are special don’t you think?

Yes we are. It’s all about the wanting fairness and harmony methinks.

]]> By: Dave http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047993 Dave Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:12:17 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047993 <p>I’m an American who left the USA and moved to Canada right after Nixon resigned. It was the best move I’ve ever made. Why is it that I feel that way? Because the USA started to, in the 1970s, and has since, lost its way. It breaks my heart. Canadians have such a more compassionate society, with better safety nets. I’m now in a wheelchair, and if I still lived in the USA I’d surely be dead.<br /> Look in the mirror and try to sluff off the dreck. Not everyone in the world wants to be like you, and many abhor the thought. I’m among them, even though I grew up with Davy Crockett and Jimmy Stewart.</p> I’m an American who left the USA and moved to Canada right after Nixon resigned. It was the best move I’ve ever made. Why is it that I feel that way? Because the USA started to, in the 1970s, and has since, lost its way. It breaks my heart. Canadians have such a more compassionate society, with better safety nets. I’m now in a wheelchair, and if I still lived in the USA I’d surely be dead.
Look in the mirror and try to sluff off the dreck. Not everyone in the world wants to be like you, and many abhor the thought. I’m among them, even though I grew up with Davy Crockett and Jimmy Stewart.

]]> By: CitizenE http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047991 CitizenE Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:09:24 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047991 <p>I think, however difficult it is for Americans to swallow, it would be salutary for Americans to realize that every great power falls. I teach community college English, and in a critical thinking class I teach I was saddened to discover that not one of my students knew what a writ of habeas corpus is, let alone how far back into the roots of our political culture this basic right of British common law goes.<br /> Most of my students are struggling to get by from day to day, juggling the cost of living, school, job, and whatever else is on their personal plates. They pass standardized testing, but one in 30 has any real idea of what is going on in their nation; they are profoundly disconnected. A couple years ago I taught a class in critical thinking in which we examined the whole nine yards of the creationism, intelligent design, evolution controversy. We covered creation myths, Plato’s philosophy, social darwinism, and actual evolution theory. Not one had come into the class with any concept that evolution was anything other than one contending description somewhat lower down the food chain from creationism.<br /> What James Fallows presumes is a Platonic elite as an American electorate. Such is hardly the case. Class, education–these are symptoms of a problem that have taken a rather mediocre man of limited skill and vision and allowed him to become the most powerful individual in the entire world.<br /> A world in which manners, as our Democratic Speaker noted to Congressman Stark, is more important than calling scoundrels out at their game. The problems we face go deeper than how we spin America to ourselves or the world. S-chip, the Iraq war, the direction of our nation, it will take more heavy lifting than it seems to me reasonable to expect to lift ourselves out of the hole we’re dug into.</p> I think, however difficult it is for Americans to swallow, it would be salutary for Americans to realize that every great power falls. I teach community college English, and in a critical thinking class I teach I was saddened to discover that not one of my students knew what a writ of habeas corpus is, let alone how far back into the roots of our political culture this basic right of British common law goes.
Most of my students are struggling to get by from day to day, juggling the cost of living, school, job, and whatever else is on their personal plates. They pass standardized testing, but one in 30 has any real idea of what is going on in their nation; they are profoundly disconnected. A couple years ago I taught a class in critical thinking in which we examined the whole nine yards of the creationism, intelligent design, evolution controversy. We covered creation myths, Plato’s philosophy, social darwinism, and actual evolution theory. Not one had come into the class with any concept that evolution was anything other than one contending description somewhat lower down the food chain from creationism.
What James Fallows presumes is a Platonic elite as an American electorate. Such is hardly the case. Class, education–these are symptoms of a problem that have taken a rather mediocre man of limited skill and vision and allowed him to become the most powerful individual in the entire world.
A world in which manners, as our Democratic Speaker noted to Congressman Stark, is more important than calling scoundrels out at their game. The problems we face go deeper than how we spin America to ourselves or the world. S-chip, the Iraq war, the direction of our nation, it will take more heavy lifting than it seems to me reasonable to expect to lift ourselves out of the hole we’re dug into.

]]> By: Marilyn In Texas http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047946 Marilyn In Texas Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:20:58 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047946 <p><a href="#comment-1047822"><em>twolf1 @ 17</em></a></p> <blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1047820"><em>Prairie Sunshine @ 15</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Is there a Constitution Day?</p></blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/08/20070822-5.html">Constitution Day and Citizenship Day, Constitution Week, 2007 </a></p></blockquote> <p>The Constitution - use it or lose it.</p> twolf1 @ 17

Prairie Sunshine @ 15

Is there a Constitution Day?

Constitution Day and Citizenship Day, Constitution Week, 2007

The Constitution – use it or lose it.

]]> By: David W. Bartoo http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047934 David W. Bartoo Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:10:57 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047934 <p>Christy,</p> <p>Just a thought. Might you consider inviting Laura to do a post about these broader, long-term, issues, in hopes of stimulating more discussion? It is apparent to me that Laura has devoted considerable thought and effort to this question. She is also very interested in how ‘group consciousness’ occurs and flourishes. Her training, expertise and inclination to observe these ‘phenomena’ would suggest that she might also be encouraged to do a post regarding this reality as well.</p> Christy,

Just a thought. Might you consider inviting Laura to do a post about these broader, long-term, issues, in hopes of stimulating more discussion? It is apparent to me that Laura has devoted considerable thought and effort to this question. She is also very interested in how ‘group consciousness’ occurs and flourishes. Her training, expertise and inclination to observe these ‘phenomena’ would suggest that she might also be encouraged to do a post regarding this reality as well.

]]> By: Smgumby http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047919 Smgumby Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:51:09 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/21/a-question-of-who-we-ought-to-be/#comment-1047919 <p><a href="#comment-1047881"><em>newtonusr @ 69</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>BTW, I should have noted that the link for part two is just below part one. I almost missed it myself…<br /> Dreyfuss, on Maher, on civics instruction. </p> <p><a href="http://www.jwharrison.com/blog/2006/11/21/real-time-richard-dreyfuss’-civics-lesson-part-1/">Part 1</a><br /> <a href="http://www.jwharrison.com/blog/2006/11/21/real-time-richard-dreyfuss’-civics-lesson-part-2/">Part 2</a></p></blockquote> <p>Totally missed it! Thanks again!</p> newtonusr @ 69

BTW, I should have noted that the link for part two is just below part one. I almost missed it myself…
Dreyfuss, on Maher, on civics instruction.

Part 1
Part 2

Totally missed it! Thanks again!

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