Comments on: When It Matters http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/ Firedoglake weblog Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:05:04 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1048282 Ian Welsh Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:00:47 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1048282 <p><a href="#comment-1047838"><em>ADM @ 190</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Just a quick comment on the atheism/religion aspect of this thread. First, full disclosure, I am an atheist. Now, the idea that atheism requires as much faith as religion is just silly. My approach, and I think the approach of many (not all, of course) atheists is that I am not out to disprove god. I can simply see no reason to even consider this concept of god. So I do not consider it. And that’s all there is to it. I try not to attack those who wish to consider this concept of god, but sometimes I fail at being a good human being and do just that. So I try to stay off the subject and/or keep my opinions to myself.</p> <p>Just my 2cents. And probably EPU’d anyway.</p></blockquote> <p>I did see him for what he was — after Krugman had made me see through the spin — which was before the election.</p> ADM @ 190

Just a quick comment on the atheism/religion aspect of this thread. First, full disclosure, I am an atheist. Now, the idea that atheism requires as much faith as religion is just silly. My approach, and I think the approach of many (not all, of course) atheists is that I am not out to disprove god. I can simply see no reason to even consider this concept of god. So I do not consider it. And that’s all there is to it. I try not to attack those who wish to consider this concept of god, but sometimes I fail at being a good human being and do just that. So I try to stay off the subject and/or keep my opinions to myself.

Just my 2cents. And probably EPU’d anyway.

I did see him for what he was — after Krugman had made me see through the spin — which was before the election.

]]> By: 14justice http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047906 14justice Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:34:57 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047906 <p>Thank you, Ian. Important reading…stimuli for contemplation.</p> Thank you, Ian. Important reading…stimuli for contemplation.

]]> By: hug the moon http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047862 hug the moon Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:06:17 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047862 <p>“I want to talk about some people who met the test of 9/11 succesfully.” </p> <p>Until this fake story about 9/11 is corrected, NOBODY met the test of 9/11 successfully. </p> <p>I know. I am a nut. Or whatever name you want to call me, even though neither of us have ever seen a clear video of a plane hitting the pentagon. How many cameras does that building have? I know, I know, I am a nut. Rock on y’all. Enjoy your freedom. </p> <p>With respect and kindness.</p> “I want to talk about some people who met the test of 9/11 succesfully.”

Until this fake story about 9/11 is corrected, NOBODY met the test of 9/11 successfully.

I know. I am a nut. Or whatever name you want to call me, even though neither of us have ever seen a clear video of a plane hitting the pentagon. How many cameras does that building have? I know, I know, I am a nut. Rock on y’all. Enjoy your freedom.

With respect and kindness.

]]> By: ADM http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047838 ADM Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:40:17 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047838 <p>Just a quick comment on the atheism/religion aspect of this thread. First, full disclosure, I am an atheist. Now, the idea that atheism requires as much faith as religion is just silly. My approach, and I think the approach of many (not all, of course) atheists is that I am not out to disprove god. I can simply see no reason to even consider this concept of god. So I do not consider it. And that’s all there is to it. I try not to attack those who wish to consider this concept of god, but sometimes I fail at being a good human being and do just that. So I try to stay off the subject and/or keep my opinions to myself.</p> <p>Just my 2cents. And probably EPU’d anyway.</p> Just a quick comment on the atheism/religion aspect of this thread. First, full disclosure, I am an atheist. Now, the idea that atheism requires as much faith as religion is just silly. My approach, and I think the approach of many (not all, of course) atheists is that I am not out to disprove god. I can simply see no reason to even consider this concept of god. So I do not consider it. And that’s all there is to it. I try not to attack those who wish to consider this concept of god, but sometimes I fail at being a good human being and do just that. So I try to stay off the subject and/or keep my opinions to myself.

Just my 2cents. And probably EPU’d anyway.

]]> By: sumpls http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047689 sumpls Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:36:49 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047689 <p>Oh, dear. 2000 campaign… and what to think of Bush Jr… Maybe if you come from a state where the leading Dem Senator was killed in a bizaar, inconclusive plane crash, and an ex-wrestler gets elected governor proving to be a disaster and depleting the surplus, perhaps then you would have seen the Shrub for what he was. First, not much negative about him ever hit the light of day even though he had plenty of Texans mad at him. His apathetic views on all things of major importance but not the hot button issues… The focussed attention he went out of his way to emphasize in order to smear others yet couldn’t make a coherent paragrph about his own policy. Many of us were not fooled. To some of us, it was obvious he had a serious mental or alcohol-related deficit/disorder. But many looked at the superficial performance and equated the Shrub to a type of Johnny Carson/John Wayne (which is the image he went for calculatedly). And those people - thank heavens- now work hard to spread the trut about the Shrub. I’ll try not to judge the well-meaning ignorant of 2000. But I have trouble not being angry about it.</p> Oh, dear. 2000 campaign… and what to think of Bush Jr… Maybe if you come from a state where the leading Dem Senator was killed in a bizaar, inconclusive plane crash, and an ex-wrestler gets elected governor proving to be a disaster and depleting the surplus, perhaps then you would have seen the Shrub for what he was. First, not much negative about him ever hit the light of day even though he had plenty of Texans mad at him. His apathetic views on all things of major importance but not the hot button issues… The focussed attention he went out of his way to emphasize in order to smear others yet couldn’t make a coherent paragrph about his own policy. Many of us were not fooled. To some of us, it was obvious he had a serious mental or alcohol-related deficit/disorder. But many looked at the superficial performance and equated the Shrub to a type of Johnny Carson/John Wayne (which is the image he went for calculatedly). And those people – thank heavens- now work hard to spread the trut about the Shrub. I’ll try not to judge the well-meaning ignorant of 2000. But I have trouble not being angry about it.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047636 Ian Welsh Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:55:54 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047636 <p><a href="#comment-1046762"><em>MikeR @ 173</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>Wittgenstein, not Einstein, said:</p> <p>What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence.</p> <p>and</p> <p>Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.</p> <p>Popper’s rejoinder:</p> <p>But it is only here that speaking becomes worthwhile.</p></blockquote> <p>I stand correct, my thanks.</p> MikeR @ 173

Wittgenstein, not Einstein, said:

What can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence.

and

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

Popper’s rejoinder:

But it is only here that speaking becomes worthwhile.

I stand correct, my thanks.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047627 Ian Welsh Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:49:18 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047627 <p>Failed states have existed for a long time and were called something else (lost the monopoly of violence/writ of the state is not followed). I do not think that Afghanistan, which had a pretty decent monopoly of violence over most of its area counted.</p> Failed states have existed for a long time and were called something else (lost the monopoly of violence/writ of the state is not followed). I do not think that Afghanistan, which had a pretty decent monopoly of violence over most of its area counted.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047623 Ian Welsh Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:45:11 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047623 <p><a href="#comment-1047488"><em>larue @ 181</em></a></p> <blockquote><p>“Say what you will about Bush Sr., but he wasn’t a wingnut.”</p> <p>Ian, we part ways completely at this point, as you are obviously not well grounded in reality anymore . . . </p> <p>Yer killin me. </p> <p>Daddy was CIA, Daddy was Iran/Contra.</p> <p>Daddy was so much evil wingnut (as was Prescott Daddy) . . </p> <p>I shouldn’t have to google for linky’s to basic history to prove my point on something as fundamental as this, so I won’t . . and you should KNOW it exists and then you should be ashamed of having made that comment. </p> <p>Yer killin me.</p></blockquote> <p>CIA isn’t wingnut. Evil, perhaps, but a very different brand of evil.</p> larue @ 181

“Say what you will about Bush Sr., but he wasn’t a wingnut.”

Ian, we part ways completely at this point, as you are obviously not well grounded in reality anymore . . .

Yer killin me.

Daddy was CIA, Daddy was Iran/Contra.

Daddy was so much evil wingnut (as was Prescott Daddy) . .

I shouldn’t have to google for linky’s to basic history to prove my point on something as fundamental as this, so I won’t . . and you should KNOW it exists and then you should be ashamed of having made that comment.

Yer killin me.

CIA isn’t wingnut. Evil, perhaps, but a very different brand of evil.

]]> By: Sempringham http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047577 Sempringham Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:46:41 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047577 <p>Outstanding post. Thanks.</p> Outstanding post. Thanks.

]]> By: bob h http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047530 bob h Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:14:49 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/20/when-it-matters/#comment-1047530 <p>I question whether 41’s foreign policy was “excellent”. Unbelievable diplomatic blundering lead to the first Gulf War, which, after he had his friends jam 43 down our throats, lead to the present debacle.</p> I question whether 41’s foreign policy was “excellent”. Unbelievable diplomatic blundering lead to the first Gulf War, which, after he had his friends jam 43 down our throats, lead to the present debacle.

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