Mad props to Sen. Chris Dodd from Looseheadprop! You just showed how it’s done!
For those of you at the dentist or stranded on a desert isle yesterday, Senator Dodd rode to the rescue when the Senate Intelligence Committee went completely spineless in the name of “bipartisanship”.
House Democratic efforts to overhaul the law are falling into disarray, after House Republicans used parliamentary maneuvers to force leaders to pull the Democrats’ FISA rewrite from the floor late Wednesday. Attempting to resolve a central point of contention, Senate Intelligence panel Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) reportedly reached a deal Wednesday with Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell to give full retroactive immunity to telephone companies if they can demonstrate they were cooperating lawfully with the secret wiretapping program when suits were levied against them.
Evidently the price of bipartisanship is full retroactive immunity for the telcos. Glenn Greenwald explained why.
Just read what Bush-41-appointed Federal Judge Vaughn Walker — operating out in the open, in an actual court of law, with both sides present and in accordance with due process — ruled when rejecting AT&T’s argument that they are entitled to have the case dismissed because they operated in “good faith” [Decision (.pdf) at p. 68]: [ed note: I could not get Glenn's PDF excerpt to copy so I am handtyping it here]
“AT&T cannot seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal.”
Just think about what is really happening here. AT&T’s customers sued them for violating their privacy in violation of long-standing federal laws and for violating their Fourth Amendment rights. Even with the most expensive armies of lawyers possible, AT&T and other telecoms are losing in a court of law. The federal judge presiding over the case ruled against them — ruled that the law is so clear they could not possibly have believed that what they did was legal — and most observers, having heard the Oral Argument on appeal, predicted that they will lose in the Court of Appeals, too.
Since the army of excellent lawyers is losing (hey, you can’t make a silk purse outta pig’s ear I don’t care how good a lawyer you are), the telcos dispatched the army—the bipartisan army— of lobbyists, like our own Dem, Jamie Gorelick, who has evidently decided that the best way for the country to forget the intelligence failures caused as a result of her FISA wall memo, is to swing the pendulum too far the other way and just erase the 4th Amendment. But at least it’s bipartisan.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who sits on both the Judiciary and Intelligence panels, signaled she was likely to support the bipartisan approach. “At this stage, it is a bipartisan bill,” Feinstein said. “I’m absolutely convinced that the only way we can legislate on this is on a bipartisan basis. This bill so far is bipartisan — that’s good news
Yes, I am screaming at such a high pitched keen, only dogs can hear me!!!!!
Anyway, Senator Dodd, evidently a man, a real man, with real courage and common sense, put a “hold” on this swill of a bill. It will take 60 votes to override his hold. Please dear Deity in heaven, please, just 41 senators with working brains and working spines, is that too much to ask?
Pups, please show Senator Dodd lots and lots of luv and, you know the drill, start letting your other legislators know that:
Retroactive Immunity (for anybody or anything that violates our Constitutional protections) is
“Off the Table”
Related posts:
- If It’s [Was] Friday, It Must Be State Secrets, Hiding Abuse of Power, in the 9th Circuit
- Feingold Asks Sotomayor about Executive Power
- Administration (Quietly) Trumpets Zazi Arrest While Pushing for Expanded Surveillance Power
- BREAKING: Vaughn Walker Dismisses Challenge to Retroactive Immunity
- Vaughn Walker’s Chess Game: Sue the Telecoms, Part One





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Dodd – #1!!!
to the Old Lions!
Frist?
DODD
zED ?
Go Dodd! Thank you!
Dodd!!
The Feinstein/Blum family: where warmaking is the bipartisan family business.
Dodd!!! xoxo
I knew it was An Impossible Dream. Sigh.
Looseheadprop, are you aware that on Saturday we Safricans will be playing England in the RWC? I’m still amazed that NZ and Aus are not there.
Go, Dodd. If only there were other Senators to pick up the ball and run with it.
small typo
[Mod: fixed, thanks]
Also, with PDFs there is a “text tool” that you can choose to select text.
Good post!
TeddySanFran @ 8
At some point you would think they have enough money to appreciate the very Constitution which enabled their fortune.
I hope Dodd holds out for a floor vote to stop his hold. We need to see, in the light, what Senate Dems will join him — and which ones will vote down the hold.
Please, Senator Dodd, hold your hold. Don’t fold!
TeddySanFran @ 13
No Mas!
Eureka Springs @ 12
But the family’s wealth has so grandly expanded under an unConstitutional war, unConstitutional spying, unConstitutional detention, and unConstitutional eavesdropping! Why worry about a piece of paper, especially when removing that piece of paper had made her and her husband so much richer?
War profiteers in Congress should disqualify themselves from voting on issues that affect the family fortune.
When Chris Dodd announced his run for the Presidency on Imus I wrote to Imus and Dodd about our need for the Old Lions.
They’ve been young.
They’ve fought and lost
Fought and won
Fought for the sake of fighting.
And now, the real thing.
The country needs the wits of the wise.
Go Chris Go.
1,630 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen looseheadprop and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thanks for the post, citizen headprop, after all your work and all the effort you’ve put in these last few years ta edjacate us out here in the great unwashed public, you deserve at least a moment to shout for the first sign of political intelligence and courage from a Democratic politician in what seems like a century or at least in this century.
I really think this move by Dodd can have the effect of coalescing a progressive force in the Senate that can command attention for issues as they arise and begin to take control of the vocabulary of the debate. In the long term, this move just put a lotta heat on Obama and Mrs. Clinton and they are between a rock and a hard place because to move to the left on issues like this means defaultin’ on the loans they’ve taken from the corporate oligarchy. If instead, Mrs. Clinton and her valet, Senator Obama, attack Dodd and try and isolate ‘im they risk splittin’ the Democratic Party and exposin’ just how far removed they are from the Democratic base.
This move by Dodd is HUGE and in one stroke put the entire Democratic Party leadership on the spot.
Thanks again, looseheadprop, we rely on you.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS OUTTA YER SIGHT!!
Boston1775 @ 16
RRRAAAAWWWWW!!!!!1111
A question just occurred to me. LHP, with the law suits against the telcos proceeding, what happens if the President pardons them or their officers that agreed to comply. I know the Prez has plenary pardon power, but is that just in criminal proceedings. Can he also prevent fines and damage awards in civil cases with a pardon? Can he alleviate or eliminate all legal burdens?
I think this thread went up to early and will be pulled back and reset for another time.
OT – Mike Huckabee just congratulated Tucker for handling himself magnificently on the Bill Maher show.
Just got the taste of sucking pennies in my mouth.
Eureka Springs @ 20
What do we do now?
The Swopa post/thread is now the current thread… I suppose.
Has anybody looked at the time of this thread. It’s for tomorrow! This may now have become a private club; I don’t think anyone will be joining us anytime soon.
Ann in AZ @ 24
it’s the VIP lounge!
Boston1775 @ 21
Surely you jest! Oh, well, what do you expect from a Rethug with a name like Huckabee?
Let’s do the timewarp again!
Well, we could have just stayed and talked amongst ourselves! OTOH, bye!
Dodd, Feingold, and Whitehouse are stepping up. Thank God.
Boston1775 @ 22
Declare ourselves part of TARDIS?
Anybody else dream of a Dodd/Feingold ticket ? Haa, wet dreams …
Finally – a setback for the Police State Telecoms.
Sheldon Whitehouse voted for the bill. WTF?
telecom immunity is Off the table!!
love it, lhp!
Powerful LHP. We need to keep letting our Reps know we support Dodd on this. Keep calling Dodd let him know we are right behind him. Senator Feinstein should be investigated for conflict of interest and her war profiteering.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101807D.shtml
Leahy “they no it was illegal”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/…..fisa-cave/
Our reps who support “retroactive immunity” for these telecom companies are willing to sacrifice the American people and the constitution.
Just who are they really protecting?
Dodd rocks but then I saw where Reid is trying to stop the hold.
Can we impeach Reid and Pelosi????
I thought Reid was going to bring the bill to the floor in spite of Dodd’s hold.
Read Bobby and J Edgar by Burton Hersh to get a small picture of the corruption epidemic on both sides of the aisle. Expecting fairness and/or decency from either party is beating a very dead horse.
Here is another “goodie” they sliped into the “Bill”…It’s the Atty Gen who give out the “get out of court cards”.
TPM
The Data Miners
http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..-1,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/n…..ning_x.htm
Here is how it works and some other companies that we are not hearing being mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aUzuzs2oC0
Senator Dodd is presidential timber. Some of the others are balsa and wormwood.
can we also include basket warrants and prospective immunity to the list of things that we want “off the table”?
I gave my props to Senator Dodd yesterday.
Last night I sent an email to Senator Reid decrying his rumored willingness to ignore Senator Dodd’s hold on the FISA bill and bring it to the floor.
Since emails tend to be ignored, I called Senator Reid’s office this morning before coming over here and seeing the current post. After a minute on hold, I told the young woman who answered that as a lifelong member of the Democratic Party, I found it unconscionable that Senator Reid would even consider disrespecting one of his senior colleagues in such a fashion as to bring this execrable bill to the floor over Senator Dodd’s hold. To even consider such a move made me wonder just what blackmail the TelCos and the President were holding over Senator Reid.
I shall not be holding my breath on actually being listened to in this matter.
Steve-AR @ 38
this stinks!
Will my party put a hold on Mukasey?
What drives me crazy is that the Democrats have no problem fighting back on the bread and butter issues like SCHIP, but when it comes to the Constitution, to torture, wiretapping, FISA, habeus corpus, etc., they cave and cave and cave. And it’s the same with most of the presidential candidates, who are only too happy to talk about the economy, health care, etc., but won’t say anything about the constitutional issues. Which is ass-backwards, because, as important as the other issues are, they don’t mean shit if you lose the Constitution. Without the Constitution, you don’t have a country.
Jan @ 36
We can’t impeach any of the bastards. Reid is going to do to Dodd what he did to Ned. I LOVE that Dodd did what he did and have thrown my support and money over to him.
But we have to realize that Reid just signaled throwing him under the bus. Rockefeller cut his deal and got chump change in exchange for his vote.
If $22K can buy a Rockefeller, then what can we do?
If I was a shareholder of these telcos I might be pretty pissed that they broke the law and put my investment at risk. In fact I’d probably be mad enough to sue…
(202) 224-3542
Senator Reid’s office. I called. What the hell. He’s needs to know we support Dodd. He needs to know how strongly we feel about holding the teleco’s accountable.
Call away!!
here’s what I don’t understand though;
the “supposed” cave is that the telecoms would get immunity “if they can prove they acted lawfully”
why exactly is that proviso a problem, I think I like that since it really gives them nothing
so explain, have I been misled about that proviso?
and while we’re supporting dodd (who absolutedly deserves it), how about some love for holt (and and tierney, schakowsky, watson and nadler)?
the battles that are happening in the house also matter – especially if this evil bill eventually gets passed by the senate… it will likely come down to what happens in the house.
off topic…a new tool I just found out about if you are running vista;
if you want a partial screen shot of something hit your windows key and type in “snip”
great tool
Dodd is a keeper. Edwards is a keeper. Gore is a keeper. Most of the rest are throw-aways. Get rid of Pelosi, Reid and Lieberman. For starters.
thank you sen dodd – he’s my choice for the WH!! ohh good morning pups :o)
Katie Jensen @ 48
done! thanks.
i first asked if it was true that senator reid was not going to treat senator dodd’s hold as has been done previously for republican senators. the person answering the phone did not know (he has some talking points to read and i don’t think he was allowed to say anything further).
CHRIS DODD ♥ US CONSTITUTION
And for some happy economic news:
link
from tpmmuckraker:
worse than i thought….
Perris,
I haven’t heard anyone adequately answer that question you raise about the law stating that they only have immunity if what they did was “legal”. I would like more clarification. LHP…do you know?? If that word changes the immunity issue or not?
Steve-AR @ 56
you’re all sunshine and light !!
and the DOW is down-143.23
Dear God, please grant the miracle of 41 United States senators who (1) believe in the leftist notion called “the rule of law,” and (2) who have some minimal sense of how to defend it. Yes, Lord, I know that’s asking a lot.
It’s a wonderful sunshiney Indian summer day here in Oklahoma. Four day weekend for us. We are having today and Monday off. It’s what’s called “act of God holidays”. We’re going fishing, and I am going to needle my party. Catfish with hot sauce and from-scratch-biscuits and gravy and black eye peas with bacon and sweet potatoes for supper tonight.
Dodd/Edwards? If Gore doesn’t come in.
selise @ 57
especially after watching the hearing from yesterday. How could he hedge on waterboarding — that’s fear of imminent death. that’s TORTURE
Thanks for the post LHP. I just sent the good Senator a little campaign $love$ this morning and a note to thank him for the hold. The single most important thing for Congress to do right now is to defend the Constitution from the thugs in the WH and their enablers in Congress. I have yet to commit to a candidate for President, but if Dodd follows through on this, he’s got my wholehearted support.
Elliott @ 63
somebody needs to ask him if he would submit to waterboarding does he think he might be able to answer the qeustion
or better, does he think we might be able to extract whatever answer we wanted to get from him
that would send a chill me thinks
Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
“Act of God” holidays?
Is this instead of “AOG” or what? I’m wracking my brain to try to figure out what “AOG” has happened. I refuse to believe that Reid’s willingness to throw Dodd under the bus is such a thing.
But, have a great day and enjoy your fish.
I made pot roast for din myself.
Glenn Greenwald has a short article on Reid’s actions. He also has Reid’s phone number. We need to ring it off its hinges.
Thanks for following these developments closely. Feinstein doesn’t listen to her own constituents unless they’re unbelievably rich. It is the view among the unbelievably rich that “democracy is all well and good, but why give it to the people?”
What’s a caller to do about that?
Chris Dodd = Constitutional Democrat
Conscience of the Senate
A worthy VP selection for Edwards.
I gave to Dodd, and also Tom Allen, through ActBlue.
digby links one of my favorite political essays ever today (which I orginally read at her site):
http://www.nypress.com/print.cfm?content_id=10369
wigwam @ 67
working on it! ;)
I see Hillary’s doing her usual “hide until she gets cover” routine on this one. Honest to God, why is she a front-runner (this is a rhetorical question, of course).
Prairie Sunshine @ 69
I’ll be happy to jump on that bandwagon.
Made my call. I don’t think they give a sh*t. We’re only voters anyway. We don’t count.
Scientists discover lots of Larry Craig like tendencies in the viewing habits of male sports fans.
Watch the ball……
-GSD
selise @ 57
Am I correct that now this piece of shit has to go through the Senate Judiciary Committee? Do they get a chance to make any changes? (Reid’s intended behavior is atrocious.)
Finally, some backbone.
THIS is where we can make a real stand! I’ve switched my support over to Dodd. I gave some cash last night to his campaign.
Perris, who wrote:
“the “supposed” cave is that the telecoms would get immunity “if they can prove they acted lawfully”
why exactly is that proviso a problem, I think I like that since it really gives them nothing
so explain, have I been misled about that proviso?’
If what you wrote is true, the other beauty of Dodd’s hold is that it also maintains constitutionality for the Telecom’s.
The burdon of proof in our law is not on someone, even a company, to prove they acted lawfully. It is for us to prove they didn’t. And we can’t do that because they will claim that anything incriminating is either classifed for national security interest’s, or protected by Executive Privledge – “We can’t say whether the Executive Branch told us to do it.”
We need to be able to legally prove the illegality of the actions of the Executive Branch and the Telecoms.
Tom @ 72
Ah but there’s an answer:
’cause the MSM tells me so….
This says it all:
(snip)
(snip)
Kagro X
Anything new on *cough* Harry Reid?
That pithy little phrase really helps, thanks lhp!
Prairie Sunshine @ 69
No disrespect, but if Dodd is not the Presidential candidate in ‘08, then let him remain in the Senate. CT has an R governor who would just appoint someone like Shays or Nancy Johnson to replace him and with Lieberman, they already have a Gooper senator.
***DODD***
Southern California (or anyone!) Firepup meet-up on November 3 at Wahoo’s Fish Tacos. 1862 Placentia Ave. Costa Mesa. Noonish.
Last Word:
Progressive Democrats = Constitutional Democrats
Putting America’s civil liberties and rule of law first.
Repervs have had two presidential terms to try to grind ‘em into dust, but Constitutional Democrats are risin’….
I called difi this AM, asking her to oppose immunity for telecoms when it moves to the Judiciary regardless of what came out of the Intel committee. I also asked her to do what Judic did with E. Richardson when he was at hearings to be AG during Watergate–extract a promise to appoint an independent prosecutor to look into scandals at Justice and the WH.
I dont expect much, but ….
Sent some props to DODD.
As to the issue of telecoms asserting what they did was legal being a hurdle; not so much if Mukasey is making the call.
Separately, does anyone know of alternative phone companies who might not go along with this stuff and who serve SOCAL?
Cox cable, for instance, has declined to release internet info–I dont recall the details though.
wigwam @ 67
Thanks for the heads up. I usually fax, but in this case I’m calling Reid’s office as well. If I get anything like a substantial answer, will post it here.
I know several folks who live & work in Las Vegas. When they get up later, will ask them to give Harry hell also. He deserves it for trying to pull this on Dodd….
dakine01 @ 82
I thought about that being from CT. Jodi Rell really doesn’t have all that much power IMHO. She’s sort of a “weak” “popular” gov., Maybe partly because of the Dem legislature, maybe because of the Rowland legacy. Shays is gonnna go anyway. . . so. Unlike HoJoe, Dodd I think, can think a lot of this stuff out.
Nobody for Attorney General and No FISA bill is better than who and what has been proposed.
mui @ 80
I got a Give “em Hell Harry poster at YKos1 and if I still have it I plan to tear it up into pieces and mail it back to him. It’s kind of useless.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
yes sir!!
will someone give reid a big dose of spinal steel – he sux bigtime!!
I like this one:
The S-CHIP bill will eventually pass. The Dems have promised to reintroduce it next year, a few months before the elections.
RevDeb @ 89
So what else can we do to make him feel like the crave shite he is?
Ann in AZ @ 19
Not that I am aware of, but to be honest, I have NEVER researched the possibility. I think you just ruined my weeekend, now I won’t be able to sleep until I know the answer! *g*
The Democratic leadership isn’t playing it’s hand well, we should’ve easily made game and yet we’re going down three!
selise @ 88
The Mukasey feller just seems worse and worse.
As difficult as it is in this “great” economy of ours, I sent Sen. Dodd $50 along with a thank-you for protecting our Constitution.
peterboy @ 85
Don’t know about SoCal but before we moved I had Working Assets LD. For a while they offered a package deal for everything but they got chopped out of that market—probably the big telcos cutting them off of the grid. They recommended Trinsic for local which was terrible. We’re really stuck with few if any options. That’s another reason why I hate those people so. Just like radio & teevee. A small number of greedy reich wingers own everything. And the dems have bent over inviting them to pile on.
Made my call too but very discouraging. As per usual, Reid’s phone person shows no interest in knowing who is calling (name, from where, etc.) and wouldn’t even tell me if he has been instructed to report the number of calls and what the callers are saying. He finally deigned to say, “Well if I wasn’t doing that I wouldn’t be talking to you.” And these are the guys who are supposed to be on “our” side??
Happy Birthday, Christy! (Wherever you are…)
TeddySanFran @ 15
Don’t senate ethics rules require recusal/abstensiton on votes that affedt personal profit? Did they repeal those?
Did I miss that?
Happy Birthday, Siun!
How about one of Jane’s special toxic ads placed strategically in some place in Nevada. Heh!
Steve-AR @ 38
Gag me with aspoon
Just called Dodd’s office, Offered this:
If Germans where accountable for following “illegal orders” issued by superiors during the war, why should the telecoms be granted immunity for violating “Constitutional Law Course 101?” The telecoms may have followed illegal orders, and ignorance of the law is no excuse…… Telecoms, “Just Say No!” Telecoms, you did get paid for this intrusion by, the taxpayer?
Corpogovernment run by asselephants aka corporcraticrepug. Just what Jefferson envisioned!!!!
Dean Wormer @ 47
You have just gone a long way to explaining one of the best arguements the “bipartisan” telco lobyists have:
Is there any Wall Street type lurking here who wants to explain to the folks about how many pension fund dollars are invested in telco stocks, and what will ahppen if those telcos get hit the way Big Tobacco was hit?
brendan @ 70
Hmmmmm. That essay is copyrighted 2007 but seems to have been written in anticipation of the 2004 elections.
perris @ 49
here’s the answer;
so according to the bill the ag could certify anything he wanted as “lawful”
that’s why it’s a cave
looseheadprop @ 106
So Rocky is going to say he bent over because, “Indemnifying the telcos was the only way to ensure the payment of pensions…”?
Katie Jensen @ 58
Christy raised that same idea in an email, and I gotta tell you that’s not how I read the sentence in context. I don’t find any comfort there
If there any readers left who still hew to the narrative that this is about Democratic “cowardice” at being labeled “soft on terrorism”, and or that they’re afraid to fight, I hope this telcom immunity disabuses you of this notion. As selise said once, “They’re not on our side.” If they wished to “fight”, this would be an easy one: leave aside the fact that they poll in opposition to get out of jail free cards, Americans hate their phone companies.
CityGirl @ 99- alternate Harry Reid contact info may relieve that heartburn you’re feeling. Faxing is a way to be counted, too, when those who pick up the phone are indifferent (or jerks):
Reid contact info-
Reno
Bruce R. Thompson
Courthouse & Federal Bldg
400 S. Virginia St, Suite 902
Reno, NV 89501
Phone: 775-686-5750
Fax: 775-686-5757
Las Vegas
Lloyd D. George Building
333 Las Vegas Boulevard
South, Suite 8016
Las Vegas, NV 89101
Phone: 702-388-5020
Fax: 702-388-5030
Carson City
600 East William St, #302
Carson City, NV 89701
Phone: 775-882-REID (7343)
Fax: 775-883-1980
Washington, DC
528 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-3542
Fax: 202-224-7327
Toll Free for Nevadans:
1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343)
In adition to Dodd’s office yesterday, I also rang Reid’s, Feingold’s, Obamas’, and Clinton’s.
I got the same response from Reid’s staff. A big fat yawn. I explained that while I am not a Nevada resident I felt that because of Reid’s position, I do consider myself a constituent.
What’s going on with Reid? Does he get the fat cash from the telcos or does the administration have something on the guy? I’m just not getting it. Anybody have any ideas on why he may be capitulating?
Telco money to “Jay”:
Wired
wigwam:
It was one of the first things I read after discovering the blogosphere. I still think it’s great.
OT from MSNBC, Comcast blocks some internet traffic. Net Neutrality anyone?
wigwam @ 67
I just called and was my most possibly polite self. Said I was calling to express my profound disappointment and concern….
Godamn little GenX staffer was so damn snippy. Really bad people skills. Should not be dealing with the public.
i thought it might make sense to give sheldon whitehouse’s office a call too… did he really vote for the fisa bill giving retroactive immunity to the telcos? if so, that seems out of character – maybe he can be moved.
202-224-2921
i called… and the people in the office knew nothing about it (although one of them very kindly pulled up spencer akerman’s report that i was using as my source). they seemed surprised and sorta disbelieving (my response also)… asked me to wait a bit (to see it was really true) before freaking out as that seemed out of character.
The retroactive immunity is for Bush, not the telcos.
With no lawsuits, there will be no evidence leading to Bushco.
It will be very interesting to see how the other Presidential candidates react to the Dodd challenge. Hillary, especially needs to be very careful here. I think if she sides against Dodd, her already tenuous (a kind way to put it) position in the Dean wing of the party will further erode.
Gore/Dean 08
dakine01 @ 116
i just finished reading the article and came here to see if anyone had linked to it yet.
and so it begins…
has anybody here found much (any?) MSM coverage of Dodd’s hold? am I missing something? somebody steps up to the plate, finally, and nada?
P.S. I don’t watch TV but the NYT seemed missing in action on this…
“At this stage, it is a bipartisan bill,” Feinstein said. “I’m absolutely convinced that the only way we can legislate on this is on a bipartisan basis. This bill so far is bipartisan — that’s good news.” Dianne Feinstein
Can someone tell me why it is good news?
inmymind’seye @ 113
I’ll repeat something I posted yesterday. I called Rockefeller’s WV office yesterday and they knew nothing (and it was an unmistakenly genuine, singsongy ignorance) of anything about a telcom immunity bill. One guy told me it was better to call the D.C. number, because the locals handle “case work” (?), while the city folk handle “legislation”. I have heard the opposite here, so I don’t know if this is true.
MEG @ 119
DING! DING! DING!!!!!!
LHP, thanks for answering my questions. Sorry I ruined your weekend, but at least this gives a little glimmer of hope. After all, OJ’s criminal trial found him “not guilty,” but it didn’t stop the civil jury from awarding the Goldmans a huge settlement.
In this case, if the president uses his pardon power, the telcos could still have huge settlements to pay for their wrongdoing. That is the reason, I’d be willing to bet, that they are so strongarming the Senators in favor of immunity. After all, how good would it be for the country to have a bunch (or all) of the telcos in the country broke and broken. So much better to have them rich, omnipotent and above the rule of law as long as they are complicit with the government. Especially in a democracy, right?
I wish KO would get all over DiFi and expose her nonsense…same with spineless Reid who got 22,000 big bucks from AT7T for his reelection…..GET Rid of em
Telco money to “Jay”:
selise @ 118
He did; there were only two no votes: Wyden and Feingold.
brendan @ 111
the trouble i have is that while most of them are not on our side, a few are… and it’s sometimes hard to figure out who they are because of the kabuki, smoke and mirrors.
on this one, i think feingold is on our side – dodd and wyden too.
in the house there are a few more… holt (and his cosponsors) for sure.
but, as far as i can tell – the leadership in both the house and senate is not on our side.
that doesn’t mean we can’t work with them. if just means we have to keep our eyes open and never trust without verifying.
mighty mouse @ 122
Probably because its reporters haven’t been given their marching orders from Bill Keller and he hasn’t received them yet from the White House.
((((((loosehead))))
(((((jane))))))
((((((chrystie)))))))
It’s great that we’re getting threads evaluating candidates.
Here’s a good, non-starry-eyed piece on Momma Warbucks, from the UK Indpendent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/…..075691.ece
One of the things that has bothered me about both the “agreement” between Rockefeller and the Intel. Committee on TelCom immunity and the “anticipated approval” of the Mucasey nomination is that, in the newspapers at least, the decisions are presented as a fait accompli.
How dare they? I mean, I live in a Blue State and I’m being told these votes are a “done deal”. What the heck must they saying in the Red parts of the country? How can the media say, flat-out, that something is going to happen without also telling the 70% of us who DON’T WANT THAT THING TO HAPPEN what the process is to make our opinion known. No one out there even attempts to help us bring the goverment back to the land of the sane and principled.
Steve-AR @ 128
that’s the report. excellent source.
was trying to give whitehouse’s office a chance to deny it (everyone makes a mistake now and again – in reporting as well as in life).
what was of interest to me is the sense that the office staff did not believe it of whitehouse. if spencer’s report is correct, i suspect there’s going to be some disappointed staffers. good.
alank @ 68
Can I steal that line to use as post title someday?
Prairie Sunshine @ 84
Constitutional Democrats— is a phrase that will resonate even with GOP voters. I think you have just had Genius Inspiration here.
Faux news has made “liberal” a swaer word, the term progressives includes groups outside the Dem PArty.
But “Constitutional Democrats” “Putting America’s civil liberties and rule of law first.” is perfect framing!!!
newtonusr @ 109
I don’t know that he will say that, but I’m willing to bet $, pension $, that it was one of the arguements used to persuade
In addition to Dodd, I sent an attaboy to Pete Stark for telling to their face and refusing to back down when the pearl clutching began.
made my call … sounded disinterested only said “there has been no announcement”. He got my message, but everyone needs to call, volume is what we have to fight back with.
I called Whitehouse’s office, and they were a bit evasive. They said the Intelligence Committee met in closed session yesterday, and the bill hasn’t come up for a floor vote yet. I knew that, I told the woman, and referred her to the talkingpointsmemo mention of Feingold and Wyden as the only no votes. It seems like they’re scrambling, and playing the sort of semantics Whitehouse doesn’t usually like.
In re: questions about the telecoms getting off if their actions are found to be “legal,” I think that that is the real bugaboo — how are you going to define what is legal and what is not? This administration has blurred the lines so badly that virtually anything could be argued. It would be totally up to the Preznit or the AG, I assume…
Helpless Dancer @ 136
Same. As out of line as it is to say that Chimpy is amused by soldiers deaths, someone needs to throw some fire.
RickinSF @ 123
when I read that quote, the first thing I thought of was “does she really think we’re that stupid? Or is it that SHE is that stupid?”
selise:
Of course I don’t mean that Democrats are ontologically “not on our side”. But the great majority are so deaf to our concerns that most staffs are even unaware of the existence of telcom immunity provisions, despite it being a front page story.
Even someone like Dodd (to whom I just donated) may be only evanescently and opportunistically “on our side”.
What I find additionally disheartening about this is the piddling amount of money the telcoms put up to buy this legislation: it seems Reid, for example, has taken $22,000 (via TPM). The return on investment here is enormous; they will always be willing and able to come up with more, while we are not. When I take food off my family to donate to a Dodd or someone else, I’m doing it to assuage my conscience, and my dignity; with them it’s strictly business.
SaltinWound @ 137
thanks for calling. if enough people call, perhaps whitehouse will put out a statement. otherwise they might just hope it will all go away.
i for one would like to know his reasoning for his vote.
Helpless Dancer @ 135
that was grand!
Pete Stark’s courageous comments on the Senate floor
Franco @ 127
I no longer think of Reid as spineless. We’ve always interpreted his baffling behavior as a sign of cowardice. Once again, we were looking at it wrong.
brendan @ 141
completely agree – and knew that was what you meant… just wanted to make sure that others reading it would also. thx.
RickinSF @ 123
Short answer: It isn’t.
Slightly longer answer: Dianne Feinstein is an idiot.
Even longer answer: Bipartisanship is code for the Democrats caved and the Republicans got everything they wanted. Most Americans want the Democrats to fight the Republicans on these issues. The abysmal approval ratings for the Congress reflect the fact that the Congress hasn’t. Bipartisanship is just a nicer way to say that Feinstein is not doing her job, and proud of it.
Filed under “Ahem”:
I like constitutional democrats!! Better than progressives…Constitutional democrats is exactly the phrase. BINGO.
Now let’s go out there and save our constitution from big business!!
Katie Jensen @ 149
we’re the Constitutional core of the Democratic Party
Thank Dodd!
I have to share that I am home alone. Mother of 4— home alone!! Feeling very radical. Listening to Neal Young. It’s either clean the house or save the constitution.
goopers come up with telco immunity.
difi and rockefeller sign on.
presto chango–bipartisan bill.
self-justifying nonsense.
Neil Young…
Elliott @ 150
would be better to have just call them the constitutional party
that would make it an easier pill to swallow for those that have invested in the republicans…for most of them it’s a team thing not a right or wrong thing, easier to start a new team then join the adversary
marketing, it’s all about marketing
Biodun @ 148
I’m sure for Bush this means French fries.
I am neither democrat, republican, independant
I am all three, I am none
“I am a constitutionalist”
definately has legs
And then there’s this one:
Complicated indeed.
Biodun @ 148
”deep, historical bonds”
Gotta love that! Freedom Fries anyone?
brendan @ 115
I don’t know if I fully agree with his thesis, but I must say that he has a point. And, damn, I love his style.
Biodun @ 158
More code: “Complicated” means “indefensible”.
Couldn’t bear a snippy phone response so I emailed Reid (with a note using one of the Salon comments as a starting point).
Incidentally, IMO Krugman’s article today on corporate contributions to the Dems may help explain Reid’s attitude and a lot of other things the Dems have been screwing up lately.
solai @ 145
If “cowardice” is wrong, then what is right?
And I also like this one:
Read into classified programs: I like that. (Same link as my 158.)
Hugh @ 147
As one of DiFi’s constituents I am at that stage called, “stunned but unsurprised.”
looseheadprop @135:
“But “Constitutional Democrats” “Putting America’s civil liberties and rule of law first.” is perfect framing!!!”
I disagree with the “civil liberties” part of this. I suspect most or many Americans approach this as a false dichotomy and have digested the presumption that the Bush administration is acting with pure motives: They are willing to sacrifice constitutional protections to stop terrorists, and many, or most, are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, or at least not be too concerned with the loss of abstract “civil liberties”, which are, anyway, associated with suspect groups like the ACLU. It never enters their mind that the Bush administration are wiretapping political enemies, or torturing to extract false confessions to start new wars under false pretenses. No public figure, as far as I know, has even made this accusation so far.
I think the Chris Dodd team wants us to spread this. No Immunity!
just got the press release from rockefeller’s office. it’s also up at his website.
Countdown #5 last night:
(I’ll post some more interesting stuff when the transcript goes up shortly.)
Biodun @ 92
Yupper. Thing is, big business likes the bill because health insurance coverage is killing them.
I just called Sen. Whitehouse’s office, and yes, the staffer I spoke with did seem disappointed. She was also quite friendly and patient, fwiw, and said they’d received a few calls. I’d bet lots of calls might get his attention…
From the Krugman Op-Ed:
That explains in a nutshell why I am so leery of Hillary.
PeterK @ 162
The average corporation worries a great deal about industrial espionage, and for all but one corporation in each industry, there is a competitor who has better political connections to the White House. If I were a CEO, I’d cringe at the thought that the White House could divulge my trade secrets, collected via the NSA cyber dragnets, to my well-connected competitors and/or administration-friendly foreign governments.
Corporations are the (virtual) people who should be screaming the loudest about violations of their right to privacy. They should be demanding prison sentences for the CEOs of the offending telcos.
Jane’s upstairs…
On Harry Reid.
selise @ 168
Oh yeah, yeah I’m sure they worked very hard.
Hugh @ 147
I believe most Americans want the Democrats to fight the Republicans on virtually EVERY issue.
I am disappointed the Democrats make us go crazy reminding them to oppose each and every horrific thing the administration tries to sneak by. And if we don’t watch every move and swamp them with opposition emails, faxes and letters, they cave to the Republicans.
For example, the TelCo Immunity issue right on top of the supposedly “bi-partisan” support for “if- it’s- torture- we- don’t- do- it- but- I- can’t- tell- you- what- qualifies- as- torture- until- I- see- what- we’ve- already- done” Mucasey; on top of the nomination of Susan Orr to oversee federal family planning programs at the Department of Health and Human Services when she is on record as saying contraception is part of the “Culture of Death”. I can’t write letters to my representatives fast enough!
uhm make “past enough” above, “fast enough”!
:->
Give Harry Hell.
And thanks, lhp and company
from your upstart Constitutional Democrat
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND:
Citizens looseheadprop,newtonusr and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“As out of line as it is to say Chimpy is amused by soldiers’ deaths, someone needs to throw some fire.”
I would respectfully disagree with the first clause of yer sentence but I don’t wanna argue about that…I jest wanna say that someone HAS thrown fire and, though it was emotional and deeply felt, Rep. Stark’s statement also appears to have been calculated and thought out in that it expresses and synthesizes the thoughts and feelin’s of more’n 60% of the public. What Rep. Stark has done is put the House Democratic leadership on the spot, if the fascists try and move to censure then we will really see where the leadership is, they don’t dare repeat the “General Betrayus” moment.
I think we’re seein’ a revolt in the Democratic Party in BOTH houses of congress against the corporatist leadership, and Mrs. Clinton and her valet, Senator Obama aren’t gunna be able to finesse this issue or the issue of corporate campaign donations from this point on.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THAT FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION SOME OF OUR LEADERS NEED OUR COVER!!
GSD @ 75
Lots of us concentrate on “hip turn” while watching a batter.
Any other conclusion holds no charms for me.
Norske – I would say, and support the supposition that, Chimpy is “indifferent”.
Very much off topic, we have been debating some about “unity”.
It might be fun to broaden the word’s meaning a bit.
Here’s “unity”…Tanguera extraoardinaire Geraldine Rojas and her former partner, Javier Rodgriguez.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnWO_8f-1O0
1,631 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Newtonusr and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
As I said previously, I don’t wanna argue about the “gentility” of Rep. Stark’s remark but I will say that I would bet that there are many psychologists out there in FDL-land who would argue that past behavior (blowin’ up frogs, authorizin’ “shock and awe” which he was told would kill or maim thousands etc) would indicate that his endorphins might be stimulated by reports of soldiers deaths.
In any case, regardless of the “civility” of the remark, I would argue that history and past practice and the immunity of representatives for statements on the House floor makes any attempt to censure Rep. Stark DOA…in addition, the fire has been thrown and the efficacy of the remark is to the benefit of the Democrats and by extension the people of the country.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T GO ALL “LIBERAL” NOW, THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL FIGHT!!
Ha! Ha!
I just heard Bernie Sanders on Thom Hartmann’s show saying: “When dealing with the Bush administration one must be cautious about using the term ‘outrageous.’”
Some of Chris Dodd’s work:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-H…..dZViewItem
Guys,
Advise from a conservative, let Bush go, he isn’t running again, he is done in politics in 15 months. Have your politicians figure out what they stand for…Pelosi and Reid certainly don’t know. Tell them to stop doing stupid things like going after private citizens. Rush has made them look like absolute fools. This doesn’t necessarily make me feel good, jeeze 41 of the most powerful people in the world being brought to bear by a lone radio talk show host. God forbid if they have to go against someone like Putin, he will tear them apart.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 62
second the motion…or Edwards/Dodd. Either way, something short of Gore that we could live with and probably even be proud of.
.
The Democratic Party and The Democratic Congress are like MUNCHKINS in the LAND of MUDGE, where the COWARDLY LIONS in the Democratic Congress are all wearing MAGIC PINK SLIPPERS which they click to have themselves absolved from the Peoples business everytime the MASTERS in the repuKKKlan Party burp.
Give money to Dodd. Now!
I’ve called almost every Dem. senator’s office this morning asking if they’ll be standing with Chris Dodd on this crucial issue.
Not a one said “Yes! We’re so glad that someone is helping us protect the Constitution.We’d completely forgotten our oath to defend her from all enemies foreign and domestic.Our bad.”
They all just muttered about looking into it.
The mentioned Woodstock Museum owner was the funnel for Hsu’s forty million to Hillary? How can you tolerate such a person in the Senate?
Best of the Web Wall Street Journal
Thursday, October 18, 2007
Mrs. Clinton Sells Out
Columnist Bob Novak has one of the day’s funnier Capitol Hill stories:
Would the Democratic-controlled Senate approve a $1 million earmark to celebrate Woodstock-era baby boomers, carved out of a bill funding health care and education? It would, because its sponsored by New York’s influential senators, Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer–and they promote the pet project of a big-time Democratic donor.
Nevertheless, as the Senate began consideration Wednesday of the Labor-HHS-Education appropriations bill, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) proposed an amendment to eliminate the earmark. The $1 million goes to the performing arts center of the Bethel Museum in Liberty, the site of the original 1969 Woodstock Festival. Coburn argues that a “taxpayer-funded Woodstock flashback” cuts into the government’s Education for Homeless Children and Youth grants. . . .
Even by Congress’ shameless standards, the Bethel earmark is extraordinary. “What Cooperstown is to baseball,” says the museum’s Web site, “Bethel could be to the baby boom.” Earlier this year, Bethel advertised a “Hippiefest” as a “return to the flower-powered days of the 1960s.”
The hippies of the 1960s fancied themselves iconoclastic, idealistic free spirits, as exemplified by Mrs. Clinton’s 1969 student commencement speech at Wellesley College:
Every protest, every dissent, whether it’s an individual academic paper, Founder’s parking lot demonstration, is unabashedly an attempt to forge an identity in this particular age. That attempt at forging for many of us over the past four years has meant coming to terms with our humanness. Within the context of a society that we perceive–now we can talk about reality, and I would like to talk about reality sometime, authentic reality, inauthentic reality, and what we have to accept of what we see–but our perception of it is that it hovers often between the possibility of disaster and the potentiality for imaginatively responding to men’s needs. . . . It’s such a great adventure. If the experiment in human living doesn’t work in this country, in this age, it’s not going to work anywhere.
But we also know that to be educated, the goal of it must be human liberation. A liberation enabling each of us to fulfill our capacity so as to be free to create within and around ourselves.
Well, maybe when we sought a liberation enabling each of us to fulfill our capacity so as to be free to create within and around ourselves, our reach exceeded our grasp. But we’re willing to settle for a million bucks from the government!
wigwam @ 60
Ha! “Yes, Lord, I know that’s asking a lot.” That’s hilarious.
LOL
newtonusr @ 109
Fascinating. Well, that’s certainly an excellent argument for why we should’ve had pension reform back in the 1980s and still need it today.
Hmmm, pragmatism…at this time in history… I don’t know. what does everybody else think. Can we afford that or is it crazy?
RickinSF @ 123
It isn’t. Apparently senators get hypnotized by weird ideas like civility, appropriate behavior, bipartisanship and the like. They forget sometimes that they have a job to do for their state and their country and that comes first.
A senator’s oath of office doesn’t mention bipartisanship.