Russ Feingold just released this statement:
As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee, I have been working and will continue to work every step of the way to try to fix the badly flawed FISA bill. I was pleased that in the Intelligence Committee markup yesterday Senator Wyden and I were able to make some improvements to the bill, including requiring FISA court orders for wiretapping U.S. citizens overseas and more meaningful oversight by Congress and the Inspector General of the new authorities. But we still have a long way to go before this bill adequately protects the privacy of law-abiding Americans. The bill still cedes far too much power to the executive branch, which has time and again shown it will only abuse it. And I am deeply disappointed that it included retroactive immunity for anyone alleged to have cooperated with the Administration’s illegal warrantless wiretapping program. I hope the bill will be further improved in the Judiciary Committee before it reaches the full Senate. If the bill that ultimately reaches the Senate floor includes immunity and does not adequately protect the privacy of Americans, I will fight it vigorously with every tool at my disposal.
I hope this means what I think it means. Because it's a nice contrast to the mumbling coming out of Reid's office.
I emailed Reid's office to ask if they actually intended to override and ignore Dodd's "hold" and this is the patronizing (though crystal clear) dismissal I received back as a "response" from Reid's spokesman, Jim Manley:
Reid will work with Dodd and other Senators to correct the deep flaws in the Protect America Act.Clearly, Reid has nothing but contempt for Dodd's principled stand, which was generated by (and in response to) the actions of tens of thousands of Americans concerned about our constitutional liberties and the rule of law. Reid is dismissively brushing that all to the side -- as usual -- to ensure the safe and smooth passage of a Draconian bill jointly demanded by the Bush administration, the telecom industry, and their lobbyists.
It's very easy to say where you stand on these things (ahem, Senators Clinton and Obama). Russ Feingold did, everyone else can too. Nobody needs to wait until the bill passes through the bowels of all these Senate committees and procedures to say where they stand, and how they will act, on telecom immunity and other aspects of the Rockefeller-for-sale bill that just came out of the Intelligence Committee.
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Jane!
Dodd Mania… catch it!
Good on you, Russ!
Go Dodd! Go Feingold!
Russ is my hero. Dodd, too.
Feingold!
So many apologies if you already answered this Jane. How many presidential candidates have received telco dollars?
Just curious, are there any telcoms who didn’t cooperate with Bushco’s requests?
Throwing your business their way would be a principled stand to take (I’m currently with Verizon).
Why are so many of our congress beings so willing to throw their oaths of office out the window? Some of their votes violate their oath, and this doesn’t stand up to reason.
thanks to Sen. Wyden and Feingold. At least there are 3 known humans.
Some pictures from San Diego:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.....on-dc.html
I love it when people do this besides me.
Yep - this is not even a close call. What say you, Senators?
there already is a pretty good fisa bill stuck in the house committees (written by rush holt with help from other members of the house intelligence committee and the aclu).
all they have to do is support that bill instead of the “badly flawed” senate bill.
who says the good guys in the house and senate can’t work together?
do-si-do @ 7
and every single one of those dollars came out of each of our pockets.
Sounds like Feingold thinks there should be a bill in the first place with changes…a little dodging and weaving..that is troubling…but I think he’ll end up supporting Dodd, because the changes he’s hoping for will go nowhere..that much is obvious.
Dodd is taking a firm stand now, that is the difference.
Reid makes me puke.
Dems, it is simple.
Stop them from spying on American citizens, just stop them. Fuck the stupid bill.
Thunderbird @ 8
Qwest is supposed to have refused, at least initially. Which is rumored to be at least one reason the Qwest CEO was charged with insider trading.
Thunderbird @ 8
Qwest didn’t. I think Glenn and TPM have blogged about it.
The real problem here, other than Jay (I sold my soul to the telecoms for $29,000) Rockefeller is Harry (I sold my soul to the telecoms for even less) Reid. If Reid were “Give ‘em hell” Harry instead of “What the hell” Harry this flawed bill, thanks to Dodd’s hold, would never reach the floor.
Two things are clear:
1. We need new leadership. Now
2. We need publicly financed clean money elections.
dakine01 @ 16
NSA probably had (has) something on every single Telecom CEO. Not far fetched to believe the same about sitting members of the Senate.
Stop cooperating.
Stop negotiating.
Stop schmoozing.
Stop compromising.
Hold those who have committed illegal acts against the citizens of the United States of America, accountable.
LS @ 14
There were aspects of the recently passed FISA bill that Feingold supported (mostly having to do with updating technology issues about calls routed through the US). This bill is intended to replace that one, which is due to sunset.
I think I am becoming and anarchist or something. There is a rage inside me when I hear Bush or anyone else say “We” are at war. “We” are not at war. The citizens of this country did not authorize this war. The administration and the congress are the ones who started this war. Our troops and this country and the poor, poor people of Iraq are hostages to this horrible administration and government, and I would like to throw them all out today and start over.
Rockefeller has disproven the axiom that electing independently wealthy people to office means they will be isolated from pressures from contributors. (Actually, Arnold disproved it recently as well.)
No matter how wealthy or how needy an officeholder may be, this telecoms fiasco proves once and for all that money buys access, bills, votes, and laws.
“It’s very easy to say where you stand on these things (ahem, Senators Clinton and Obama). Russ Feingold did, everyone else can too. Nobody needs to wait until the bill passes through the bowels of all these Senate committees and procedures to say where they stand, and how they will act, on telecom immunity and other aspects of the Rockefeller-for-sale bill that just came out of the Intelligence Committee.”
I am so tired of Democants being outraged over Republican legislation after they voted it into law. They are not victims and I hope they learned more from Republicans than ‘victims win’. It may have worked for Republicans because that is the kind of people who support them. But ‘victims’ are not the kind of voters who vote for Democrats.
LS @ 14
There will be some kind of bill. HoJo and the Rethugs will make sure of it. Feingold knows there can’t be corporate immunity. I ask again, where is Hillary? Why nothing from her?
TeddySanFran @ 23
I keep searching for the “gee there must be an explanation for all this” but I can’t find it.
I’m still ready to give Reid the benefit of the doubt, until it’s clear that this isn’t just more Kabuki until the bill is amended to remove the offending clauses. I find it hard to believe that he would countenance retroactive immunity for telecoms, and I’m not even sure that any such law would be legally bindng, since it’s not in the power of Congress to pardon past crimes. It is also hard to understand why telecom money should matter given the overall lead in cash held by the Dems. It seems like selling out for nothing, and that doesn’t sound like Reid at all.
Of course it’s possible he is selling out. But if so, there ought to be a logic. What’s the logic?
I wager that Obama and Clinton will say nothing about any of this for a while. Clinton especially will wait to see how the wind blows…
Feingold doing the right thing. Senator Feingold is damn consistent. As Jane and other FDLer’s constantly remind us, reward good behavior. Call Feingold and thank him.
Hey Christy if you are lurking (I hope you are not) HAPPY BIRTHDAY GAL! Thank you for all that you, Jane, and the rest of the FDL team do. It is greatly appreciated.
Just love Stevie Wonder singing Happy Birthday to Martin Luther King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97V8DcbDOOs
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 25
Don’t bother Hillary. She’s very busy cashing checks from telecoms, which takes up a lot of time.
And Ann in AZ:
As I said yesterday: You’re getting good…*g*
(And so, on behalf of zedophiles everywhere, welcome to zedocracy!)
pigboy @ 24
As a once upon a time CT resident, Dodd used to be my Senator. Granted I wasn’t as into politics as I am now, but I don’t remember Dodd doing anything that special. In the recent two weeks, my respect for him as grown by leaps and bounds.
Better put your seatbelts on…
We’re in for a bumpy ride.
And hot damn, it’s gonna be fun! YeeeHaw!
Elliott @ 26
It is the essence of the DINO dynamic: Go along to get along.
Via @ 22
I couldn’t agree more. I too am becoming more and more anarchist. I wish the congress would grow some balls, get a spine, whatever it takes for them to do their damn job representing the people instead of corporations, and defending the constitution against all who oppose it. This is not the country I grew up in. If it is, I was mislead.
Morris Sheppard @ 30
She can go back to being Goldwater’s girl!!
“The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom singled out the Saudi-supported Islamic Saudi Academy (ISA) in Northern Virginia … “
http://www.nwo101.com/2007/09/.....oklyn.html
So much for hate crime legislation.
Albert Fall brought up a very important subset of this discussion on the last thread. It’s not just retroactive immunity for the “telcos” that this bill would provide. The retroactive immunity would also provide civil liability protection for the telcos and the members of their Board of Directors. Wonder who they support with their campaign dollars? Wonder why so many people want to shove this through?
Kathleen @ 29
I’ve been wondering where Christy went. Taking a well-deserved break, I assume. Did I miss the announcement?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 25
Hill is waiting for the telecom checks to clear.
I guess my point is that there was a bill in place, and the Administration and the Telcos deliberately (not accidently due to new technology) broke that law, before 9/11. That is what they should be focusing on. Whatever new bill they put in place will be ignored…meanwhile the criminals are on the loose in our midst and are trying to cover their sorry behinds.
32
Joe Klein’s conscience says:
October 19th, 2007 at 11:20 am
I hope this is the begining of good things to come. America is just dying for a leader represent them right now.
LS @ 40
You are exactly right. It the responsibility of leadership to educate the public. The Dems are not doing this! We need to have the point hammered over and over again on throughout the MSM.
bonkers @ 33
Love the Bette Davis reference. I hope you’re right. Many of these congress critters have to stop worrying about their jobs and start worrying about the state of this country. And start doing something about it. They just might find that the people are behind them.
dakine01 @ 16
Thanks for the info, all! Sadly, Qwest is only out west, so it looks like I’m stuck with law-breaking Verizon. :-(
msmolly @ 39
Yes you did. On Tuesday I think. Maybe on Wednesday. Mr. ReddHedd took her someplace nice for her birthday (which is today.)
ADM @ 44
“What a dump!” Bette Davis reference to current WH.
Biodun @ 28
Sen. Obama already stated his “against” position yesterday. See TPM Election Central or Daily Kos for the story.
Well then, now we need to go after Reid on this one.
Oc course even this depends on how “Happy” Harry chooses to define “work with,” “correct,” “deep,” and “flaws.”
In other words, a completely worthless response.
dov12348 @ 49
And then he will write a letter.
Via @ 42
Started in February of 2001. The Dems should keep stressing that.
And start Impeachment…
Third time’s a charm
dov12348 @ 49
All the more reason to remove him from his position when the next session of Congress opens in 2009…
So many in congress seem to have lost their way, for whatever reason. At this point, it appears only Dodd is actually trying to do something. It appears Feingold may also be stepping up. I hope so. If we reward them as some say they are doing, maybe others will follow. It seems like a fantasy though. I’d like to think it will happen.
Will be calling Ohio Senator Sherrod Browns office to find out where he is at on “retroactive immunity”. Called a while back and he had not taken a stand.
Via@22:
Clap! Clap! Clap! You nailed it.
Another really important aspect to stress is that, the spying on American citizens began prior to the Global War on Terror. We were not at war (we aren’t now either), therefore; the Administration cannot claim inherent powers of the President due to being at war regarding these illegal activities. This must be made clear.
Standing with Chris Dobb -
I’ve called several of the senators’ offices and the heat is on. They are feeling the calls and comments. No swishy statements to slither around YES or NO. Unless the statement is clear and unambiguous, call again and say you don’t understand the statement. Does it mean YES or NO? Keep pressing.
i LOATHE harry BS reid!!!! what a fucking asswipe and i mean that - he is soooo not fit for senate leadership - who made THAT choice of him???
civicforum @ 48:
Thanks. Against amnesty or against Dodd’s hold? I’ll check it out.
feingold has been at the cutting edge, standing up when nobody was there to help him stand, standing up when everyone else was standing down
he is quite a man and my respect grows each and every time he takes a position or speaks
Has Edwards come out against this piece of Orwellian shit?
Speaking as a supporter of his (for now) he damn sure needs to.
LS @ 56
This is an excellent point.
juslin @ 59
I’m his constituent. Try that for frustration :/
Via @ 51
Whatever #@%*! Just wrote OH’s senators & Reid urging them to support Dodd. I fear I may have shouted a bit, heh, except I’ll bet I don’t have to with Brown. Reid gets the full treatment, gr-r-r.
Oh, and hey pups, don’t forget that timely !THANKYOU! and memo of !SUPPORT! to Sen. Dodd hissownself. I got so angry about the whole mess, I almost forgot to do that, sigh. call it a “senior moment”, just now corrected. *g*
And while I’m at it, for heaven’s sake, THANK YOU {{{{!Jane!}}}} for your leadership on this issue. ;->
RT Firefly @ 52
I wish the dems would talk about the important things like that whenever they are interviewed on the MSM. They me be asked about the silly things like Edwards’ haircut, Obama’s lack of a flag pin, or, god forbid, Hillary’s cleavage, but they should immediately change the subject to the destruction of the constitution by BushCo and the republicans in congress. Change the discussion to what’s really important and do their best to stop these distractions.
LS @ 57
there is no global war on terror
terror is a strategy it’s not an enemy, any enemy can and will use whatever strategy serves their higher goal, it cannot be defeated because it is perineal, it is timeless, it cannot possibly die it is a simple strategy that those who are under manned or under equipped will always use
terrorism is an enemy that cannot possibly be defeated because it is a method that any enemy can and will use
they are deliberately creating a frankenstein that has no fire, a superman that has no cryptonite and a perris that has no edit button
they are creating the image of an enemy that we must kill but that can never die
they want unending war, it lines their pockets and keeps them saturated in power
there is no “war on terrorism”, it is not an enemy it is a method
Thanks Senators Dodd and Feingold -
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....be-called/
Dennis Hastert To Announce Resignation–Special Election To Be Called
Jane,
After all Dodd’s courageous actions, I reset the Triple Poll to see if views had changed. Let me know if you’d like me to put the links and results here.
ADM @ 35
Can’t say I’m an anarchist. I think if you want to see how anarchy works, then Iraq is a great example.
I am, however, profoundly angry at my government and its supporters in a way I can’t remember ever being before. The Roll Over And Beg Awards are just a mild expression of those feelings. I don’t know what’s coming in this country, but it has the potential to be really ugly.
perris @ 67
Exactly, a means to justify their endgames.
juslin @ 59
If it went the way it usually goes, the Democrats in the U.S. Senate made that choice. That should tell you something.
Kathleen @ 68
My heart goes out to his family, which will now have to spend more time with him. /snark
QG@64
how sad it must be to have him as your senator….bushco speaks and he genuflects……just awful reid is…did he EVER have a spine? just asking…..
ingrid boeting @ 68
Ditto. There are some people there who are worthy of respect, and those guys are two of them.
selise @ 12
Yes, HR 3782, the FISA Modernization Act of 2007. It’s the one written with the input of the ACLU.
If we’re going to have a new FISA bill, this is the one. Otherwise, screw it — let the crummy ‘temporary’ Bush bill lapse and go back to the way we were.
QuakerGirl @ 58
Exactly!
http://www.senate.gov
And like Selise says, tell them that if they must back a FISA bill, HR 3782, the one Rush Holt sponsored, is the one. Otherwise, fuhgeddaboudit.
Biodun @ 31
Thanks, Biodun!
Grrrrrr! #@&*! GRRRRRR! Put up your dukes, Harry. I’ll take you on!
Cujo359 @ 71
I let my anger get the best of me when using the word anarchist. I understand it was a mistake, at least for me. I was just thinking about getting a gun and taking to the streets so that vision popped into my head. But you are correct. I shall try to control myself more in the future.
QG@80
i’m laughing but its not funny lol
juslin @ 75
I was shocked when he was selected head of the Senate. Huh? Why? I asked.
Meanwhile, speaking of Real Men:
Pete Stark shows ‘em how it’s done
Tanbark @ 56
YES!!!
And I’d like to add another.
My hair just stands ON END whenever chimpy calls Dems do-nothings because of HIS, BUSH’s OWN OBSTRUCTION of proper governance and justice for all!!!
How DARE he?!?!
AAaaaaarrrrrrrggggh!
Kathleen @ 29
That’s right, this is her big weekend away, isn’t it? Happy Bday, Christy, wherever you are! (Boy, I’m reminding myself of Jimmy Durante!)
It is essential that Congress preserve its ability to legislate in this area, so that it can craft the reach and limits of legal cooperation between the government and this and other industries now and adjust it over time.
Generally, I oppose any immunity. How can a prosecutor defend stiff mandatory sentences for “routine” crimes when all it takes for a large and hugely profitable industry to avoid liability for serial violations of the constitution and federal statutes is to make a hundred million dollars in political donations? That’s about a tenth or less of what they would pay as a consequence of losing in nationwide litigation. A ten-to-one return on their investment, not bad, even by private equity standards. What precedent would this set for other industries?
But if a grant of some sort of immunity is the only way forward, then Congress should demand immediate, full and continuing cooperation. This circumstance is no different than a US Attorney haggling over sentencing a crime lord.
Immunity should apply only to certain crimes, and be limted as to time. You wait, you lose. You withhold or parse too much, you lose. Perjury, a failure to fully and accurately disclose, failures of omission or commission, deceptive framing, etc., should void the immunity.
Put the sword of Damocles in its sheath, but leave it dangling. Nothing else will entice such powerful entities to comply with the law. When billions of dollars of profit and loss are at stake, “good faith” will not assure good behavior, any more than voluntary compliance will reduce carbon emissions or persuade a drug lord not to make one more deal.
I’d really like someone to ask the following question of Hillary and/or Obama at the earliest opportunity:
If you are not willing to fight for the Constitution as a US Senator, why should we believe you’ll do so as President?
Phoenix Woman @ 77
amen PW!!!
also, since this bill was written by member of the house intelligence committee - they ought to know as much as anyone in congress about what changes might actually be required vs all the other bs we’re hearing about.
so - the holt bill gives cover, imo (as would feingold’s support), to someone like dodd who is on neither the intelligence or judiciary committees.
Tom @ 88
Good question.
adie@85
no not how dare bushco - how DARE the DEMS let him call shots on THEM!! they’ve been played and played by chimpy and still they have NO fucking CLUE!!!
In Jay Rockefeller’s defense, I don’t think he needed an infusion of telecom cash to establish his bonafides as DINO milquetoast.
He should stop working to actively erode our Constitutional rights and return to his core competency: neglecting to conduct Phase II of the Iraq intelligence probe.
Tom @ 88
Exactly.
For those of you so inclined, here is an email I got from the Draft Gore campaign.
I am in the process of e-mailing every Democratic Senator to ask that they support Dodd. Don’t know how much good it will do. I have also e-mailed Edwards campaign and asked that he make a statement in support. I didn’t miss old Harry either - gave him a bit of roughing up and asked for new leadership.
LS @ 40
And WHY did they need to spy on us BEFORE 9/11 — 6 months before?
And WHY did Gonzalez send out FBI against people in Michigan in 2004 for making contributions to Edwards?
What is all this?
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Great job, Sister Hamsher, keep the pressure on, we need ta get a core of progressives in the Senate ta commit to a “hold” and a filibuster if necessary. Even if the filibuster fails, the protracted debate will expose the entire corrupt machinery behind the last 6 years and with the country over 60% opposed to the entire fascist enterprise, only the progressives win. So keep the pressure up Jane, let’s get commitments from the followin’:
Kennedy, Leahy, Whitehouse, Sanders, Hark in, Durbin, Conrad, Dorgan, Levin, Feingold, Tester, and Webb.
If a group of 10 senators with a core of senior people and a few that don’t hafta face the electorate for 6 more years ken be put tagether to bring a filibuster or even a threat of filibuster, the corporatists will be forced ta choose and the attention the corporate media and C-Span will be forced to give the debate can only benefit the progressives and further isolate Mrs. Clinton and the the fascist fellow travelers. No matter the outcome, the progressives win and the Mrs. Clinton is toast. Don’tcha jest LOVE it??!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS IT!!
just called senator reids office again. this time i got a statement.
sounds like the speculation is right on if this is the best we can get from reid’s office.
here’s hoping that more calls will do the trick…
ADM @ 90
They will do a rise-above-the-fray pretense and turn on their own party saying the players were in a political power-play struggle and used the Senate floor.
selise @ 96
Yep, and “we do not have any quarrel with the Iraqi people” - mmmhmmmm - right.
selise @ 97
So when is Harry going to make a statement?
if we only had a media outlet to get the progressive message out on a daily basis…….i can dreammmmmmmmmmmm….sighhh
In both the triple poll and the DFA poll…Edwards is running away with the race.
juslin @ 101
We do have Keith Olbermann.
Hugh @ 100
After he meets with the White House.
ADM @ 35
What worries me most is that I’m seriously beginning to think that which political party you belong to makes very little difference. The new Democratic majority in both houses for the first time in twelve years has been such a huge, HUGE disappointment. These people aren’t winning even the battles that they should be winning. To make matters worse, it doesn’t seem as if they’re seriously trying much of the time. If you get the same results no matter who is in charge…
-285
Sometimes I think that Congress feels that putting out something is always better than not passing anything. Makes them feel “productive” I guess — how shit-filled the legislation is, is apparently merely a lesser consideration.
Could this hark back to their potty training, where mommy or daddy told them it was always good to “produce” something?
LS @ 103
And FDL IS the new media representative…
Ann in AZ @ 105
I’d like to see challenges to the leadership in both houses next cycle. Pelosi, Hoyer and Reid need to be challenged from the left. Who’s going to step up?
off topic but the wilsons are never off topic here at the lake
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._1019.html
great video on the interview with valery, a little of her interview is included in this piece and there a few shots of her.
have a look
Hugh @ 100
i asked that very question.
it was just one of my questions for which they had no answer. eventually i gave up hoping to get any info and just left my comment.
LS @ 106
Is this how the 20th anniversary of Black Monday is being celebrated?
perris @ 110
“Jane Bond” as they call her here also made today’s Sydney Morning Herald
Ish @ 63
The Republicans will lie, and lie, and then lie again to justify breaking the law.
Now is the time to “immunize” the debate by repeating over and over that there will be a terrorist attack in the future and the Republicans will blame the Democrats–NO MATTER WHAT THE DEMOCRATS DO–because the Republicans never accept reponsibility for anything.
Russ to the rescue once again! I swear, a Gore-Feingold White House is what we need… BAD
you want a chuckle? (in a sad way)
think progress has this lead up;
ya, right, like the president will therefore preserve those emails
if anything that will make the president destroy those emails if it’s possible and that is a fact
perris @ 115
Although I am told by my IT expert at work that in the hands of a knowedgeable person, they could mirror those harddrives and extract everything. And of course, we don’t know that there are NOT back up tapes in some file drawer or safe someplace.
Reid’s latest statement is worse than the one his office released to Glenn Greenwald this morning. It appears to claim that reports of Reid’s failure to uphold Dodd’s hold are false, but really only claims that Dodd has not yet issued a “statement”.
Taken together, what that means is that Reid’s fighting like hell to avoid having to acknowledge Dodd’s right to put a hold on the bill, even though he’s acknowledged the right of GOP wingers to put similar holds on other legislation. What he most wants to do, however, is avoid coming clean in public. Shades of Mitch McConnell and his 12 year old-bashing staff.
Most telling, of course, is that the Senate Intelligence Committee refuses to release its draft. It must have blanket immunity for past and future violations and Reid wants to line up enough votes to defeat Dodd’s hold before the committee releases the draft.
Coming on top of the Dem’s mismanagement of the House version, which allowed a GOP parliamentary maneuver to temporarily derail it, I’d say the Democratic leadership is trying to score own goals faster than the GOP can score them on their own. November ‘08 should lead to wholesale changes in Democratic leadership in both houses, and the election losses of several of the most outstanding Quislings.
Can’t believe I’m citing him, but here goes: Andrew Sullivan, via Kevin Drum:
perris @ 67: T’ain’t perineal, it’s perennial.
juslin @ 91
O.K., I’ll come back a little. How Dare BOTH, as long as you admit not all the Dems are guilty as you wanna charge, harumph.
sorry. that’s one-a my pet peeves - dumping all in the same basket, whether they belong or not. Don’t say ALL unless you MEAN ALL. e.g., Feingold probably wouldn’t appreciate it, even tho he surely would know what you mean. eh?
Toby Wollin @ 117
your it expert is uninformed
I can easily wipe any hardrive and the information is irretrievable, it’s a myth that hardrives can never be erased
the real problem is duplicate copies, if an email traveled through servers those servers could have copies and the path of the email could be traced
but your it expert is wrong, sorry
selise @ 97
Yupper. The English translation of Reid’s statement is: “Dammit, we were hoping we could cut this deal without you noticing. Now you’re shining this big-ass spotlight on us and we may be forced to put America’s needs over the telcos’ and Bush’s greed! Waaaaah!”
I think they will. (Don’t forget to call YOUR Democratic Senators, too, and any possible wavering Pubbies. Let’s get the forty folks needed to sustain a hold — or a filibuster.)
Repeating myself:
I want to know what pressure was put on the intelligence committee to come up with this atrocity. It didn’t work on Feingold. It did work on Whitehouse. What was said/done?
solai @ 124
It keeps swirling ’round in my head but I can’t make any sense of it.
Hillary picks up another endorsement:
solai @ 124
The only thing that makes sense to me is if they believe they will be given documents they have requested from the Telcos in exchange for immunity.
solai @ 124
might just have been an oversite, the wording had me fooled
“imunity from activity that is not lawless” sounds like a no brainer, they are already imune from activity that is not lawless
so it could just be an oversite on their part, they didn’t read the part where the ag would be the person to decide if they broke the law or not…that’s the back breaker
I remember conyers said most bills are not read by the legislators in entirety
-290
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
And one more thing, since Dodd is also on the Judiciary Committee, how about gettin’ ‘im ta go balls out for a “hold” and filibuster of Mukasey. It seems to me that the stars are aligned and the bastard FISA bill and the attorney General nomination are of a piece here. Forcin’ two filibusters over the core issues seems to me to be the way to fight…with the majority of the country behind ‘em. At least keep the immunity in return for testimony out there in order to force the telecoms ta spill the beans in open session of CONGRESS. Make it a sword to use to force release of all the info that has so far been withheld.
KEEP THE FAITH, THERE’S NOWHERE TA RUN NOW!!
Twain @ 94
Good on you!!! I’ve done that on occasion, whew. Sometimes it just seems appropriate, like now.
Excuses, excuses…. i’m in midst/presumably, of helping my sweetie remove dreadful tape from newly painted edges - gack. not going particularly well - maybe due to my mood….
At the very least, I was gonna suggest mebbe contacting and pressureing every single announced preznit candy-date on the issue.
Please consider it, pups, any who are able. I’ve quite literally got both thumbs nearly taped together for life, egad! Bye for a bit…
-300
LS @ 129
They do have safegaurds in place to prevent a repeat of Black Monday. For starters, they’ll just shut down the market.
LS @ 127
without it written in blood, how could they reliably believe that?
Biodun @ 133
for seconders they’ll just print tons of money and give it out for the purpose of buying stock
although I believe the printing presses are running at redline since the government stopped reporting m3 so it will on paper only
Biodun @ 133
Yup. I think is something like 500 or 700.
And for those who have been following this (brendan and Kathleen come to mind):
Biodun @ 137
Gates may block the report.
I feel like we’re all waiting for the next shoe to drop on this whole telecom/immunity crap.
adie@121
no they’re not all sorry but enough of them are so they have no clout…now tell me what have the dems done to advance their “agenda” maybe i missed it….hmmm war still on - no schip - loss of privacy - osama ben forgotten…. yeah they’ve been very effective…………… NOT
LS @ 138
Why would he bother to do that, the fox is gonna report ‘all is well in the hen house and the responsible party’s have been dealt with’.
Biodun @ 137
add to that story this one
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._1018.html
bold is mine and oh my, seems I have seen something like that before
ADM @ 90
Obama came out with a statement against the bill 20 minutes after Dodd did yesterday. (Now some will say, well he should have been 1st..jeesh) I would link to it, but it’s obvious that there are several people on this blog who need to sharpen up on their reasearch skills……either that or just go ahead and apply for a job at Faux News.
Just got off the phone with spinless Reid’s office…she tried to bash the info on the blogs with me saying the “blogs are always exaggerating’ Yeah right my arze!…I really gave it to her…I told her if Reid continues to be a BushBot why doesn’t he just switch parties and take DiFi with him….I am sooo over them, they are such spinless imps, who can’t even answer a question directly…He was all over the “exaggerating blogs” before the election needing our help and hard earned money, now that AT&T is kicking it up some notches we are exaggerating…..
Sorry for the rant they are really pushing it this time!
sharpen up on their reasearch skills……either that or just go ahead and apply for a job at Faux News.
Excuse me? So I missed some statement the great god Obama made? Well fuck that. I’m out of here.
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Somethin’ has changed in the last couple a days that has panicked Dodd and Leahy…I think this might be the “Nixon Tapes” moment in this 6 year nightmare. If the telecoms ken be forced ta come clean in open session of Congress, impeachment will be a done deal in the House of Representatives and it won’t matter the outcome in the Senate trial ‘cuz the whole rotten mess will be exposed and a whole buncha Democrats will be singin’ Agnew”s “nolo contendere” which translates ta “I’m not guilty and I won’t do it again”.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, THE BAD STUFF IS ABOUT TA HIT THE FAN!!
LS @ 138
Nope:
earlofhuntingdon @ 118
some info:
1) senate intelligence committee has now released it’s draft fisa legislation:
http://intelligence.senate.gov/071019/fisa.pdf
2) the “house version” was a very flawed bill, that the house leadership rushed through committee, even though a far superior bill from rush holt (see comments above) was submitted to the floor on the same day. house leadership has blocked holt’s bill in committee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4GIzUFPfhM
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/.....:H.R.3782:
see my comments on this thread for more info.
Franco @ 143
Appreciate you leading by doing & especially your call for taking DiFi with him! ;)
Thanks Russ. Sad you aren’t running, but I can see why you didn’t. The Dems need a real leader, take the reins!!!
OT
Mel Martinez (R-FL), after just 9 months, has quit as head of the RNC. The reason? To focus on his “own reelection.” No, it has nothing to do with the drubbing the Republics will take in about 12 months. Uh uh, nope, not that. Everything’s fine in “we make our own realityland.”
loree920 @ 143
Loree920,
According to TPM Obama has come out against the immunity but barely and has not made a categorical statement of opposition of doing anything to actually stop the bill. Rather lukewarm at most. Which many of us discussed here last night.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 130
i don’t think dodd is currently on the judiciary committee (maybe he used to be?)
Fun little quiz to see how news savvy you are:
http://www.reuters.com/news/gl.....e/newsquiz
Biodun @ 145
Ah, but is he going to do a “Rosemary Woods” on this?
loree920 @ 143
Personally, if you have one handy, I’d love a link. Even though my research skills are pretty good, there are one or two other demands on my time that seem to interfere with my ability to find that info.
Tom @ 88
Just e-mailed both Clinton and Obama with that question. I don’t expect a reasonable answer. Or, more accurately, I expect an answer which is ‘reasonable’, as in they’ve been bought.
Citizen Selise: I think he is
selise #148,
thanks for the links.
OK. I apologize for my outburst. This has happened to me before and I promised myself I would count to ten before responding. I failed on that promise. I will try to be more civil. Sorry
NorskeFlamethrower @ 158
well, i’m not going to say i can’t be wrong (that’s happened too many times for me not to figure that out *g*)… but i don’t remember seeing him when i’ve been watching the the senate judiciary committee hearings this year…. and he’s not listed as a member on the committee website.
where else should i look to resolve the question?
I leave it to the Rapturists,Xtianists and the Religionists ( anti-abortion,anti-birth control,anti-gay,anti-wrong relgion,anti-evolution,anti-mercy,anti-compassion) to make the GOP candidates squirm and sweat trying to get to the WH in 2008. The GOP deserves that bunch pestering,posturing and preaching to it.
That is what going to CrazyTown is all about and the GOPers sure do like CrazyTown politics these days. George W. Bush did a veto on poor American childrens healthcare federal funding increases and then wants to tell us how Xtian he is. Stuff like that exceeds any hipocrisy measurement devices I know of.
Where is the shame? Repentance? Compassion?
Well…meanwhile the DC DEMS are crowing about “front runner” Hillary Clintons money grab success and how her “race” to the WH is going so swimmingly well.
So…setting the ‘race’ rhetoric aside shall we inquire with Senator Clinton on where she is about ‘rule of law’,breaking the laws of the United States and snooping on Americans on the say so of George W. Bush?
No comment?
Where is this ‘leadership’ Hillary Clinton wants to bring to the WH after George and Dicks lease on the place is up in Jan. 2009?
No comment?
Or is being the “DC DEMS front runner” more about how fast you run from leadership or taking a point position or showing any meaningful political integrity or ability to get into a WashDC political fight early on the right side of the issue and hit hard?
No comment?
Where is the ‘front runner’ Senator Clinton?
How about running into a WashDC fight and being right about the picks you make instead of running away or waiting for several finger in the wind poll testing results to see which way to wind vane?
No comment?
Leadership can happen everyday Senator Clinton as you are already a U.S.Senator. You do not have to get to the WH to do any real and useful leadership do you?
Show us some today.Or tomorrow. Get out front for a change and show us you can cipher out what the truly correct position is on ‘rule of law’ and how letting lawbreakers get ‘pass jail’ cards is bad politics and not what you stand for.
Some integrity and principled stands taken and defended would be refreshing Senator Clinton.
Unlike your Iraq and Iran votes.
Obama comes out against telcom immunity bill.
Toby Wollin @ 117
Did the Judiciary Committee just throw up its hands on this, like they did the Miers contempt citation, and just walk away?
From Dodd’s Senate site:
Senator Dodd is currently Chairman of the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee. He serves as Chairman of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere, Peace Corps, and Narcotics. He is a senior member of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee and is the Chairman of its Education and Early Childhood Development Subcommittee. He also is a member of the Rules and Administration Committee.
http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/2954
Biodun @ 163
getting close to being a lagging indicator.
ADM @ 160 -
welcome to the human race. although i think your “outburst” was pretty tame. *g*
P J Evans @ 157
Unfortunately, all you’ll get is a canned answer from a 23 yr old LA. I’d like someone to ask the question - loudly - at a campaign event and insist on an answer.
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Yep comrads in arms, sumpthin’ BIG is up…the ghost of Nixonstein is haunting us today and things are happenin’ so fast that the corporatist shills in the congressional leadership are puttin’ on their flakjackets and keepin’ floatation devices handy ‘cuz they’ve completely lost control of events.
Yep Firepups, we gotta keep the kids inside and get our immunizations up ta date ‘cuz the political shitstorm that’s comin’ is gunna look like global warmin’ on steroids.
Anybody seen or heard from Mrs. Climnton lately (LOL)?
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF THE CHILDREN!!
juslin @ 140
agreed on that much.
that’s where WE come in, & the Dodds & Feingolds & a few others who pop their heads up periodically….
i’m not willing to speak to the future with any great measure of confidence.
just scooting along on my rear like everyone else, hoping not to tape my own sorry hide into a corner…
TGforPUPS! You guys give me hope, fool that i may be.
Besides, if we give up totally, ….
you know the routine….
i’m not willing to give up, no matter what.
just. can’t. okay? call me pollyanna & you’ll get yer nose smacked pronto. that’s not it.
it’s… it’s… the “stubborn factor”.
Molly believed in it. Me too. So I’ll keep goin’ till i tip over. thas’ all.;->
RBG @ 156
It’s already linked…..see below
TJ @ 93
I’m afraid I need a link! I tried to find it through a search, but alas…
selise @ 167
Ah but you should have heard what I was saying to my computer screen. ;-)
loree920 @ 143
Always a day late and a dollar short, isn’t he? He’s supposedly a front-runner; it’s time to act like one and not get beat to an obvious point by a “second-tier” candidate.
Biodun @ 147
And just why should we believe what he says?
ADM @ 173
anything like this?
In case the point hasn’t been made yet, this is an issue for which progressives can and should make common cause with libertarian conservatives. In much the same way as right and left have come together in defense of net neutrality.
loree920 @ 171
Why yes it is. I should thank Dakine and Biodun for making that extra effort….so thanks to you both.
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Selise:
I stand corrected, I thought he used ta be but anyways he ken still give Leahy some cover on the AG nomination.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET THE BASTARDS OFFA THE GROUND!!
i voted in the dfa poll earlier this week for dodd tho i’m disgusted with dem’s lack of spine i still keep the faith ;~)
ADM @ 173
i bet both our computer screens could tell some stories on us *g*
Just got an email from Harry asking me to sign a petition about SCHIP. As much as I hate what Bush did, I just blasted Reid. Another fucking PETITION? Is that what you call leadership? Have you learned NOTHING in the past 7 years of dealing with these people???
OT loree920? u hautbois tune-player???
dfa poll
Via @ 182
ya did notice the attached plea for $$$, did ye not? my sweetie swears petitions are only fer luring yer hand into pausing on the way to the trashcan, just in case yer checkbook or plastic are handy. i fear he’s right. but it CAN be most refreshing to fill all the blanks with blast-away prose, and then send it off to em on their own dime, pleading poverty where all the blank $$$ are printed. almost surely won’t be read, but it’s what can pass for fun for some of us on a really bad day… sigh.
Via @ 175
Whatever is in that report will come out sooner or later. There will eventually be a leak if there’s a coverup.
1,632 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizens selise, ADM and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I called Reid’s office earlier this AM and got a staffer after a few seconds on hold and a second voice message from Ol’ Harry…I identified myself and didn’t let the staffer get control of the conversation, I told ‘im that I was a life-long Democrat, activist and contributor and that Senator Reid had lost his pants on this issue in front of the most important constituency there is: the Democratic base. I further told ‘im that if Senator Reid forced the bill to the floor through Dodd’s hold that he will have bipartisaned himself right into the Republican Party.
I then said “Thank you for your time” and hung up…don’t take any shit from these sycophantic little twit staffers. It’s all about the number a calls, so get in, do yer business and get out so someone else ken dump some shit on ‘em.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T TAKE ANY SHIT FROM THE BASTARDS!!
LS @ 57
The prez can’t claim “inherent powers to ignore the law and the Constitution” even when we are at war. There is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that offers an out clause. There is not Amendment stating that the Article 1 powers of congress to establish rules and regulations for the GOVERNMENT (top to bottom, side to side, all 3 branches) goes out the window when there is a war. There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that says “these rights remain inviolate unless the Prez decides they are in the way”. Bush has NOT “inherent powers” that are not clearly spelled out, limited, and controlled by Congress (including the fact that Article 1 gives to Congress the right to determine the RULES OF CAPTURES ON THE LAND AND SEA…the CONGRESS determines who may be taken prisoner and how they shall be treated, NOT the Prez under ANY circumstances).
The Prez ONLY gains Commander in Chief powers of the MILITARY, not the People, NOT the Federal government, NOT the Judicial system. The Prez has nothin’
you go, NorskeFlamethrower!
better listen up harry!
Biodun @ 186
I know, but I would like, for once, to be able to believe what I am told, the first time I am told.
$50 to Dodd yesterday for the “hold”, and $50 to Dodd today for the threatened filibuster. Great two days, I’m actually starting to feel the stirring of hope.
I gotta say I like NorskeFlamthrower’s comments. S/he certainly keeps it lively. And I will take the advice.
Maybe someone who know where to find items like how much money Reid has recieved from telco’s and publish it might make them take notice, in fact do it for all of the leadership!
ADM @ 192
Glad to see you found your kevlar.
RBG,
I applaud you on your reasoned responses. I wish I could maintain my emotions as you do. I also like your oh so subtle snarkiness in some of your responses. It may go unnoticed by the one on the receiving end, but I note it. And appreciate it.
Might I suggest?:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....69042.html
By the way, as a strategy….switch parties for the primary and vote for Ron Paul. You can switch back the next day, and in any case, you can vote for any party you want to in the general election.
I’ve been bugging DiFi’s office for two weeks solid on this.
Up ’til today, the standard, pro-forma response had been that my Senator hadn’t decided how she’s gonna vote, and will release a statement later, when she decides.
Now, however, that she has voted (at least in the Intelligence Committee), that answer has less legitimacy (if it ever had any). Thus, I called again this afternoon, as a constituent, and asked for an explanation for my elected representative’s already-cast Intelligence Committee vote. Guess what: they’re sticking to the old cop-out. My Senator will release a statement “soon” explaining her position on this bill. ‘Til then, I can go rot. Kee-ryst, this is aggrevating!
At the very least, though, I’ve wrung this concession from two separate phone answerers in DiFi’s D.C. office: they’re received absolutely *no* constituent contact explicitly urging retroactive immunity for the telecoms. None. Every piece of constituent contact DiFi’s office has received on this issue has been in the negative. The phone answerer tried to wriggle on this, somewhat, by saying that they have received some constituent support for the FISA bill (and that, the phone answerer claims, could be construed as inherent constituent support for retroactive immunity, since the FISA bill contains such a provision). Blech.
It’s so frustrating, smashing myself against the wall of DiFi’s non-responsiveness, but I’ll keep on at it, right up ’til the end.
Patrick Meighan
Culver City, CA
bilzim @ 191
I also dropped fitty on Dodd yesterday. And I haven’t donated to a presidential candidate in 6 years. And I’m not a Democrat. But Dodd earned the contribution.
I hope he keeps it up!
Patrick Meighan
Culver City, CA