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That’s what the man says:
San Francisco: Will you join Sen. Chris Dodd’s hold and proposed filibuster on any FISA bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecoms? Thanks for joining us for this chat today, Sen. Biden, and thanks for the leadership you provide the Democratic Party and America.
Sen. Joe Biden: Yes.
That was easy. See? None of the qualifications, doublespeak, “we don’t know what’s going to come out of committee” obfuscations necessary. Either you support immunity for telecoms who engaged in criminal activity, or you don’t. It’s kind of an either-or thing.
I think it should be noted that what Dodd displayed here was leadership. L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P. Something we like to see from our leaders, and something that anyone thinking about being one of our leaders should consider.
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Dick Cheney controls Harry Reid?
Damn. Every time I think that I dislike Biden, he steps up to the plate with something.
{{{{{JANE!!!}}}}}
You’re on FIRE today, lady!
FunnyDiva
The ghouls of the invertebrates control Reid
Good for you Senator Biden! And I liked your remarks a while back on “retail politics” too.
707!
Ahh, refreshing!
tw3k @ 7
Just like Junior Mints…only better!
FunnyD
Finally, some action from the Democrats. What about H. Clinton next?
Liss @ 3
He’s like that, isn’t he? Huge ego balanced by self-effacing humor. Good on foreign policy, dreadful on the domestic side. He’s one of those rare politicians I can’t ever peg, even in my own mind.
Anyway, glad he’s on board. I can feel another Stand Your Ground Award coming on. Feingold already has one, but he may have to share it this time.
The stakes are perhaps getting higher for the two front runners.
Cujo359 @ 10
It certainly at least makes for interesting political theatre.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 11
Yes, the lack of action on their part is making that clear.
Go Dodd! This is what leadership looks like. We need far more of it and far less of the Rockefeller/Reid bend overs and the Obama tepid “I’m against it” while not committing to any actions to stop it.
This guy is the real deal. He has my vote.
The word “Leadership” seems to have somehow been twisted into a synonym for “popularity” and/or “fund-raising prowess”. Real Leaders not only command their followers to take action, but stand in the front of the ranks and accept the consequences for those actions be they good or bad.
There is no leadership in HRC, just an endless amount of cajolery and position papers outlining what her wonks envision America could become if only we’d pay attention to the DLC.
A great speech in front of the 2004 convention does not a great candidate make, Obama may be intelligent, charming, charismatic etc etc but he’s shown me nothing that says “Leadership, I get it”.
Biden is jumping onboard, good for him but please note he followed Chris Dodd.
I don’t know if Chris Dodd is the real deal, about a lot of things, but he’s certainly made the word Leader pop into my head in the last 24 hours.
HRC will have to consult with her many consultants first about the political ramifications before saying or doing anything regarding Dodd and Biden. And what will Bill say to do?
This is very good news.
Hahahaha!
If we can get Biden — Bankruptcy Bill Biden, the Senator from MBNA, the classic example of the “bipartisan” Democrat (read: corporate tool and often GOP tool) — to back a filibuster, then we can get most of the rest of the Democratic senators to fall in line.
The big question now is if we can get a few Republicans to peel off, too. It would be lovely, but I wouldn’t count on it. Never underestimate the ability of the RNC to force individual GOP pols to vote against not only their country’s best interests, but their own.
Cujo359 @ 10
He is not so dreadful on the domestic side. He has some really interesting proposals he’s been rolling out, with specifics, on education, and others. Yesterday he had a piece on HuffPo about a new program to help battered women connect with trained lawyers. It’s a follow-on to the Violence Against Women Act, which he authored.
I’ve met him a couple of times in Iowa. I don’t see the huge ego either. I just see bright and really intense.
alx @ 9
IIRC, Obama has expressed his reservations on the FISA fix, now, let’s see the rest of the Prez candidates take a stand…!!!
Senators Clinton and Obama. Would you two be interested in demonstrating that as far as you guys’ principles and leadership qualities are concerned, that ‘there is any there… there’?
Maybe you guys already saw that Waxman is after Blackwater for TAKING IRAQI AIRCRAFT OUT OF THE COUNTRY and refusing to give it back.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
You can count on the fact that her “answer” will be triangulated enough that no matter what she does it will be claimed that it was what she always said on this matter. She NEVER gives a simple Biden answer: Yes, or No.
CTuttle @ 21
Obama has not taken a stand on this.
HRC will release a fine-tined statement. Obama will get onboard eventually; I had hoped he would be bolder, esp. in the wake of his hold on Von Spakovsy’s nomination.
Good for Biden for stepping up. I hope more follow–a lot more!
Andy
dakine01 @ 14
I like Dodd, have liked him since he blogged here the first time. I’ve been away; what are his numbers these days?
With one fell swoop, Chris Dodd got my vote. I was really concerned about who I was gonna vote for. Looked like nobody since I won’t vote Repug. Wouldn’t vote for Hillary to scoop dog shit off the sidewalk. Obama hasn’t a chance. And then this shinning light appears out of the darkness. Chris Dodd has a backbone and a set of balls. Finally someone with courage. Yep, He got my vote.
Previously undecided, Dodd’s stance on this issue has caused me to pick him as my candidate so far. My husband and I both decided a while back that the first one of the Democrats to actually DO something about the current bull**** state of affairs would get our vote. Thank you Sen. Dodd, and thank you Sen. Biden for backing him (and the people) up.
This is the first time I’ve seen Joe Biden’s name associated with an absence of doublespeak.
For once, his hair plugs have failed to scramble his cognition. Good on him.
Huzzah!
I heartily approve of fillibustering and of recent name-calling by Move-On and by Pete Stark. Give the Rethugs some of their own medicine.
I contributed to Move-on and to Dodd, will now to Biden, but Stark doesn’t have a contribution place on his website.
spurious @ 27
His fortunes are climbing of late, oddly enough…at least amongst the bloggites. Hopefully he will see a climb in the national polls too, and in his fundraising.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
Hmmm… I get the impression ya don’t cotton to Hill much!!! ;-)
Liss @ 3
Regardless that he sometimes talks too much, and has some other faults, I’ve always known there is something I liked about Joe Biden. I thought it was because he played the part of that flamethrower we are always saying we need, even though nobody ever seemed to give him any recognition for that role. Now I know it was more than that. It was a willingness to stand up and say, “This isn’t right, no matter how you spin it!”
*xyz @ 24
Obama has made a milquetoast statement that he is opposed to the bill and retroactive immunity per this from TPM yesterday but no real promise for any actions.
Ann in AZ @ 34
Perhaps, but then there are things like the bankruptcy bill…
Sens. Obama and Clinton, please pick up the white courtesy phone…..your country is calling.
Good move by Sen. Biden. He’s not a favorite of mine ordinarily, but when he’s right, he’s very right.
Andy
dakine01 @ 35
Hence the ‘Reservations’…!!! ;-)
alx @ 9
It would be nice to have additional help with the heavy lifting, but I, personally, think she’s a day late and a dollar short to be claiming any leadership role.
hawkseye @ 30
You can start a page for Stark on ActBlue.
Spurious @ 26 Des Mones Register poll has Dodd at 1%.
Dodd’s #s are currently crap, but I think that will change. I love his leadership on this, and many other issues. What’s up Oddball?
Oh, and I’m pouring scotch, who wants some?
betcha dollars to donuts that the “San Francisco” questioner is our very own Teddy SF.
Ann in AZ @ 38
Leadership? Only if there’s a payoff that benefits HRC directly. Sad, but true.
Susan in Iowa @ 38
Thanks! Argh.
punaise @ 41
I thought the very same thing when the question popped up…!!! 8-)
Biden to Join Dodd in Filibuster
You have obviously received an erroneous alien data transmission from Alpha Centuri designed to lull you into God knows what. Bankruptcy Bill Biden, indeed. Mr. MBNA, oh yeah. The only reason he said this is because he doesn’t think he’ll ever have to do it. I simply don’t believe him.
For 25 years I lived on the Eastern Shore of MD, 30 miles away from his little corporate bailiwick in Delaware. The whole damn region is as corrupt as holy hell and has been since George Washington’s time. Tony Soprano would know from Delaware, kids. All you have to do to feel dirty inside is cross the state line.
Something else is going on here, and it sure ain’t anything to get misty-eyed about.
Susan in Iowa @ 20
My opinion of Biden on domestic issues is based on his support for the recent “reforms” of bankruptcy law and in favor of the usurous credit practices we are now suffering with. He’s no friend of the middle class or the poor, as far as I’m concerned.
The Violence Against Women Act is a definite plus, though. Once again, he confounds me with inconsistency. ;)
As for the ego, I see it, and I’m certainly not alone. Most politicians at that level have large egos, I think, but somehow, at least to me, Biden’s is more noticeable. I’ll add that I wasn’t the one who came up with the saying “the most dangerous ground on earth is the ground between Joe Biden and a camera”. Anyone who wants to give credit for that line can google it, but for me it’s affirmation.
Dems 2008 shaping up to be:
HRC: Triangulators, women
Obama: Voting rights activists, minorities
Edwards: Unions
Dodd: Blogosphere, civil libertarians
That is a whole lot of votes to split in the primaries, and to me that means Hillary is not a lock for the nomination.
Twisted Martini @ 39
Hope so! Maybe this will get him some attention. Does anybody in the Bay Area know where I can get a Dodd lawn sign?
Loo Hoo. @ 23
SOBs
link
Cujo @ 46. I’m pretty sure that was Schumer.
CTuttle @ 44
It’s got all the hallmarks of his classic style: courtly deference (feigned or not!) and appreciation matched with a direct question. usually the set-up comes first, however.
albert fall @ 46
Edwards has also been popular in the blogosphere. He’s won several Internet straw polls. Clinton also does well among minorities. Other than that, this strikes me as an accurate list.
I find something stinkin’ about this David Copperfield thing…FBI raids his warehouse, finding $2mil in cash…rumors of rape…so..I went on an internet excursion…
“Internationally acclaimed illusionist André Kole is coming to Rector for one show at 7 p.m. Friday, March 16, at the Rector Community Center.
David Copperfield, the world’s greatest magician, said of Kole, “Through the years, André has not only been one of my closest friends but also has collaborated with me on each of my television specials. I consider him to be one of the greatest illusionists in the world today. Don’t miss this opportunity to see some of the most incredible illusions ever conceived and experience a wonderful evening of illusion and reality.”
Kole is an international representative of Campus Crusade for Christ. The Rector show is sponsored by the First Baptist Church. Tickets are $5 in advance and $7 at the door. Groups of 10 or more may purchase tickets at $4 each by calling (870) 595-3668. Individual tickets are available at Mosley’s NAPA and Consider the Lilies (Rector Flowers) in Rector, NAPA in Piggott and the Lantern Bookstore in Paragould. Because of anticipated response, advance ticket purchase is recommended.
In his introduction of Kole, Copperfield invites audiences to “witness one of the most remarkable illusions ever attempted on stage, anywhere in the world.” Kole then unveils one of his most famous creations in the field of illusion, the disappearance of a 10-foot-tall Statue of Liberty.”
http://www.claycountydemocrat……/news5.txt
Susan in Iowa @ 50
Pot, kettle, etc.
Copperfield to Andre Kole to Crusade for Christ…to:
http://www.lighthousereport.com/SBDbio.htm
Copperfield continued…
Stephen Douglass…
” Steve definitely believes in the Lighthouse strategy and applies it in his own life. He serves on the Board of Directors of Mission America, and personally prays, cares and shares in his own neighborhood.”
http://www.lighthousereport.com/SBDbio.htm
Copperfield cont. blah, blah, blah…to:
http://www.missionamerica.com/wholinda.php
Twisted Martini @ 41
Up from the bowels of Middle Earth comes Balrog, who always wants a Scotch.
Where do you think all that fire comes from?
spurious @ 44
Look at it this way. The worst that can happen is that Dodd stays in the Senate. And, to my mind, keeping senators with cojones is no bad thing.
punaise @ 51
Exactly! I’d submitted a very similar question about FISA, and, when that question appeared I popped over here to see if Teddy was around…
Not to suggest necessarily that any of the above groups have anything to do with the investigation, but the money laundering, international part of it is rather interesting. I just learned about a couple of groups I never knew existed that have a mission, I find rather…
Amazing how Biden can all of this love for uttering a single word. Yes.
We are starved for leadership, aren’t we?
Balrog @ 64
What up Balrog? The little demons must be keeping you extra busy. Dalmore cigar malt coming up!
Twisted,
I’m here, gettin’ twisted in my own special way *g*
Twisted Martini @ 66
Yes, not to mention the children.
A virtual Laphroaig to you sir!
Well, if a filibuster is needed, Biden is a natural for that duty! ;o)
Balrog @ 65
Yes.
I like Biden, but I don’t like that he voted for the bankruptcy bill, other than that….he’s okay. He’s a bit too schmoozy for President, but would make a good diplomat.
Twisted Martini @ 39
Got any Bailey’s? If not, how ’bout vodka? Or both!
Ann in AZ @ 72
Bailey’s in hot chocolate. So smooth you’ll wonder where the hangover came from.
Hey, a heads up! Rachel Maddow is broadcasting live from Madison, WI, and Feingold will be appearing shortly…!!!
A mudslide for the lady in AZ coming right up…see you all upstairs
Twisted Martini @ 41
Actually, I prefer a dirty martini – somehow, it seems appropriate on one level or another -
Thanks!
Balrog @ 64
We certainly are. We’re not getting it from our alleged leaders.
Kitt @ 69
Thanks, I needed that.
LS @ 71
I don’t like the bankruptcy bill either, but he has a lot of people in his state who take home a paycheck with MBNA on it, and the bill had provisions in it for women and child support that he wanted. Go look at Dodd’s contributions from the banking industry. Or any candidate with a legislative record and industries in their state. There will be something you don’t like. (Try Opensecrets.org)
Too schmoozy? I’ve been on the receiving end of it, and he’s pretty charming one-on-one. Lyndon was schmoozy without the charm and he got a lot done. Politics, diplomacy, legislation: all are dependent on persuading people to work with you.
not very ot:
i just found out that glenn greenwald interviewed rep. rush holt on wednesday night about fisa… he’s going to post the interview as a podcast. from glenn in his comments:
my bold.
hey – i’m not the only one who’s been impressed by rep. rush holt’s work on fisa legislation!
Loo Hoo. @ 23
I love the way Prince claims “privacy” as a means to avoid disclosure but is paid with public money. He thinks his declaration makes it so. Never works for me like that. But then I’ve never been called before congress.
Steve-AR @ 51
I told you Rush would sell the signatures. Anybody remember? How stupid.
Ann in AZ @ 39
You’re right. While others here are pre forecasting her response, I am disappointed that we have not heard from her. I think the key word is leadership, and Dodd showed us what that word means.
Now can one of these good Senators put a hold on Mulkasky?
Susan in Iowa @ 79
Oh, alright….I actually like him quite a bit…He’s smart, attractive, has a sense of humor….but he has to be able to win…the media always eat him alive…we have to be able to win hands down…or we are cooked.
Twisted Martini @ 41
Double on the Rocks please … spank you, spank you very much … *g*
Twisted Martini @ 38
Scotch today, huh? Think I’ll have an (imaginary) Manhattan.
Jane,
Yes! This is a LEADERSHIP issue!
Dodd is demonstrating it. After long searching, we have finally found a Democrat who knows how to stand up and fight for what is right! Y-E-E-E-HA-A-A!!! And then its on to Iowa! and On to New Hampshire, and then it’s on to Nevada! and South Carolina! and. . .
Oh, wait….
Seriously, though, Dodd DOES have it right. I hope he gets a lot of mileage out of this, in more ways than one.
Bob in HI
Twisted
a martini please!
Marilyn In Texas @ 83
Looks like Leahy is pending written question answers following yesterday’s “unacceptable” answers. I posted the link, but I can’t find it right now…look on Thinkprogress and scroll down the page.
LS @ 71
He gets too angry during the debates for my taste. You just want to tell him to settle down. I sick of people yelling.
Elliott @ 88
He’s upstairs, filling orders …
Elliott @ 88
mmmm…the dirty martini sounds good…olive juice…save me the olive!!!
LS @ 92
it’s yours, my dear!
Loo Hoo. @ 23
Geez, setting up their own mercenary army isn’t enough, eh? Gotta have their own Air Force? Have they got any surplus B-52s yet, so they can haul surplus nukes around, and drop’em off here and there?
Next are they going to try to roll up a few Aircraft Carriers? Surely by now they’ve got some PT boats.
Yeesh.
Bob in HI
Loo Hoo. @ 90
Loo Hoo, see me upstairs @ 43 … *g*
Sorry, I was upstairs…what kin I get ya’all
Um…white wine?
from sykopoet next thread…
i think we’re long past the point where it’s appropriate to keep making excuses for speaker pelosi.
About time! Thank you Senator Dodd. Thank you Senator Biden.
Next stop… end torture. Close Gitmo. End the war in Iraq. AND FUND CHILDREN’S HEALTH CARE!
Petrocelli @ 95
Smartass.
Stags Leap Chardonnay coming your way Lindy…
Twisted Martini @ 96
i’ll take new leadership in the house of representatives, please.
come on up and drink a toast to Christy and Siun
Much appreciated. It’s been a tough week.
Ish @ 86
Me too! On the rocks, with Canadian Club!
LS @ 84. I don’t think the media eat him alive. He has to beat Hillary to win, unfortunately, and her campaign is putting out a Resistance is Futile vibe. But the media is (are?) starting to chomp on her. Today we had Chinese dishwashers giving $1000 contributions courtesy of the LA Times. Yesterday it was a “Rural America” event hosted in DC by Monsanto lobbyists. We have a way to go yet.
Loo Hoo. @ 100
… tee hee … I know you’re smiling right now …
Come upstairs and they will be waiting for you…
Oh, and a bit of that Stag’s Leap if you don’t mind.
Link to Birthday post upstairs
Twisted Martini @ 64
Where have you been, Balrog? Don’t think I’ve seen you here for awhile.
Susan, Stag’s Leap coming your way…
Gotta go eat some Scampi, back in a bit
You may be right, but I believe Joe Biden would do whatever he felt was right. Election at stake or not.
Cujo359 @ 75
How did so many of these boobs get elected, then? (I don’t even know how Kyl and McCain could have gotten elected. Must’ve been the neighbors, ‘cuz it sure wasn’t me!)
selise @ 98
Hey. She recently made a few nasty comments of her own about GW. I heard Stark’s comments and they made me smile. Thank god somebody spoke the forbidden truth.
Twisted Martini @ 112
That’s it. I just left a cake recipe upstairs and it’s scampi down here. I gotta go. I’m hungry.
QuakerGirl @ 115
sorry i missed them…
but why is she giving stark a hard time?
I knew about Dodd but not Biden. Good for them both. I adore them both and wish they were higher in the polls for the presidency.
I’m sick of all the right wing media all over the tv channels and cable.. I’ve listened to Hillary bashing all day and Giuliani and Rush’s wonderfullness.
Bullshit, someone in tv media needs to bring out the facts about the slime on the right.
“I think it should be noted that what Dodd displayed here was leadership. L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P. “
i couldn’t agree more. even though i’ve struggled through unemployment for far too long, i dug deep and contributed to Senator Dodd’s campaign today … after writing a quick note of thanks yesterday.
A quick review of the Senate’s version of the bill makes clear that blanket immunity is not “a” purpose of these premature FISA amendments, but the principal purpose.
Immunity is covered in no less than three sections, two of them major, and explicitly covers all post 9/11/01 actions. Jurisdiction becomes exclusively federal. And all state and federal suits are to be shut down forthwith.
Wow! It is amazing that Biden gave a one word answer to a question, any question. I guess Chris Matthews taught him a thing or two afterall. If he can keep his answer straight forward, then it shouldn’t be so tough for the front runners to also.
But perhaps the prospect of a filibuster has him pumped since he likes to hear himself speak. Can’t think of anyone more qualified to actually filibuster
Funnydiva2002 @ 8
Well, nothing’s better than Junior Mints.
Chris Dodd and Joe Biden are giving me a lot to think about.
So…..
How long does it take you to spell Telco Lobbyist law firms write this bill?
Russell Shaw Converging worlds of IP Telephony, VoIP, Broadband Subscribe Alerts Bio Mobile
Rockerfeller’s contributions from Telco’s to buy immunity have exponentially climbed off the wall since Spring 2007.
The list of Verizon’s law firms lobbying for immunity alone is staggering and among them are the largest law firms in any major US city.
Senate Bill Gets Telcos Legal Immunity and Lets NSA Wiretap In U.S. Without Court Approval
I don’t see Hillary or Barack or Colbert or Richardson or Edwards’ profile or any other Democratic candidate (I understand Steven Cobert’s petitions are for both parties) impacting Telco Immunity anywhere on the horizon.
They are worried about tiptoing among their big money contributors.
Democratic Lawmaker Pushing Immunity Is Newly Flush With Telco Cash
Former Clinton officials lobby for amnesty for FISA lawbreaking
I know what the tired old clowns the Republicans are running think–they want the scenario in Orwell’s 1984 exponentially intensified.
So if Telco Immunity is being framed in a fillibuster there are a few points to keep in mind:
1) It takes 60 votes to stop the fillibuster or in Senatespeak to “invoke cloture.”
2) It would take 67 votes to overcome the inevitable Lil Bushie Veto that would follow a bill that maintained Telco Immunity–what we all want to happen but what I personally would be shocked to see happen given the lack of backbone in Democrats and the lockstep rubberstamp Senate and House Republicans have given to Bushie on every major vote I’ve seen in the last few years.
3) Also I think more people should be bothered by these two points the way this is unfolding:
No one in the House or Senate considers you important enough to know anything about the substance of information given to Senate Intelligence Committee members that the Senate Judiciary members are complaining they haven’t seen. I predict an inevitable cave-in of Democrats as to cloture. I predict a Bush rubber stamping of Republicans if Telco immunity were included and then 67 votes would be needed to overcome the inevitable Bush veto.
We know nothing about what’s being marked up right now–but it’s pretty obvious that Telco immunity is in there thanks to spineless Rockerfeller. He can always be counted on to cave as can his fellow Intelligence Committee members with the exception of Russ Feingold.
None of them will tell you anything about what’s being marked up, nor anything substantive about what they’ve been able to review as far as classified documents. I know they’re classified, but let’s get real–You’ve never had the door shut on you as a voter more firmly than now.
You aren’t given any real indication about the markups in Senate Intelligence or Senate Judiciary and you aren’t given a clue about what the classified documents show but I’ll give you one: It’s worse than you can immagine.
Billions of your tax dollars are spent on gathering all of your information from every source with all kinds of alphabet subagencie communications centers you’ve never heard of and never will–your email, your searches, your phone calls, and your medical records and your Democratic Senators and House Members are poised to extend it.
Again Fillibuster–60 Votes and you’re talking Cavocrats here–they cave each and every time–I’d say the chances of invoking cloture look awfully good right now. I couldn’t be more happy that Dodd and Biden are at least the first ones to promise to fillibuster. Right on.
Veto–67 Votes and you’re talking Bush Rubber Stamps here on both sides of the aisle unfortunately.
Conference Committee–Secret and forget about help once it gets there.
That Georgie Orwell had it down when he wrote that little book in 1948.
The latest comment I’ve seen from Russ Feingold about what they’ve been shown (none of which they are sharing with you the voters is this from NYT):
“The leaders of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mr. Rockefeller and Mr. Bond, worked out an agreement with the administration giving committee and staff members access to the documents in exchange for scheduling Thursday’s review of the bill. But just what those documents showed was a matter of intense dispute.
Mr. Feingold, who had a staff member review the classified documents at a secure location earlier in the week, came away with a different impression. Mr. Feingold said, “The documents made available by the White House for the first time this week only further demonstrate that the program was illegal and that there is no basis for granting retroactive immunity to those who allegedly cooperated.”
So, in exchange for freeing Telcos from perhaps a billion plus dollars in potential damages, what does the American taxpayer get? Full cooperation and full disclosure? A promise not to violate the Constitution or binding federal statutes ever again? Internet neutrality? How about just a promise not to own, purchase or use a handgun or associate with other felons while on parole?
Nope. We get nada. Zip. Nothing, in exchange for the most expensive get out of jail free card in the Bush Monopoly deck. It seems that Democrats are working overtime to make sure that there really aren’t consequences to elections after all.
Here is an idea:
Chris Dodd for Senate Majority leader.
Who else agrees?
This is utterly insane. How is it that we are stressing putting together a coalition of people willing to filibuster a bill (in a house of Congress that the DEMOCRATS CONTROL) that essentially gives the Bush administration complete freedom to make a permanent archive of all business that transpires on our telephones in the name of “keeping us safe”??? Especially after it has been revealed that this illegal program was initiated PRIOR to 911??? Excuse me, who can argue that this is necessary to “keep us safe” if they were already recording/keywording all of US phone conversations *prior* to the attacks and they *still* failed (either through negligence or WILLFUL INDIFFERENCE IN ORDER TO ADVANCE A POLICE STATE) to stop the attack? Are all of these people on crack, have they been bought, or are they about as smart as a box of rocks? I am completely fed up with this situation. These are supposed to be non-negotiable RIGHTS of CITIZENSHIP. Why is it a headline that *two* presidential candidates actually have the stones to object in a meaningful way to this precursor to fascism? We quickly need a national plan of grassroots education and protest before this thing comes up for a vote. We need a website to being organizing. We need to incorporate as many public interest organizations as possible into a coalition willing to take this issue to the streets. I give it a maximum of 5 years before this database of all of our telephone conversations and internet traffic becomes the death knell of our democracy.
Who among you doesn’t have skeletons in the closet regarding websites that you have visited, emails that you have sent or conversations that you have had on the telephone? The unitary executive is about to have de facto legal authority to put the screws on each and every one of you people who fancy yourselves armchair activists. Bush is *unilaterally* claiming the right to imprison people without charges indefinitely whom he independently deems to be aiding and abetting terrorism. The Justice department has already begun arresting people and charging them with federal crimes for reselling satellite subscriptions that include certain arab television channels! There will come a day, if this is allowed to continue, that anyone who rocks the boat will get a knock on the door telling them to toe the line, or else. That is the *whole point* of this. The executive and the telecom industry are not investing all of these resources into accruing these vast powers for themselves, only to not use them. We’re talking about people who blatantly lied us into a war that has lasted longer than WWII; who, as I type this message, are actively TORTURING people within the custody of this country, in violation of federal and international law. Yes, that is a WAR CRIME for which we hung people by the neck until dead after WWII. This isn’t a debate over a bridge to nowhere in the budget. This is about handing the most despised man in the world the keys to all of your inner thoughts, personal relationships, confidential business dealings and freedom to associate with people whom you choose. This is the endgame.
LS @ 50
Can the aircraft (one or more?) carry nukes?
~itunkala @ 119
Me too…..
I sent in 50 to him today. Dodd is the lead story at Swampland, as of 10pm Fri at least 150,000 went to his coffers.
Chris @ 127
Right fucking on.
I gave money too Dodd today .
I think this issue can give us some answers and put some air between democratic presidential candidates.
Such as:
Does the democratic congress have such a low rating because they are unwilling to uphold the rights of the American people against corporate and Bush interests?
Which candidates are unable, because of political alliances (huge contributions) to stand with Senator Dodd?
We will see.
selise @ 98
Pelosi is all about keeping her GOP base happy.