Good evening Jane.

hi Jane!

I jest love me some love.

if Hillary wabts to one-up Obama, she needs to speak up for Dodd NOW.

Lord I am sick of the so called Democratic leadership and the two front runners.

the Grand Excuse!
Very dramatic in a pissed off romantic way.
And so true.

So far Hillary, you’re not ‘my girl’.

I’ve always said Dodd, Edwards, Obama, in that order.

Now it’s pretty much Dodd, Dodd, and Dodd.

They’re the Brave Sir Robin party…

The old maxim is true, excuses are like assholes, everyone has one.

OldCoastie @ 4

if Hillary wabts to one-up Obama, she needs to speak up for Dodd NOW.

and vice-versa.

Theoretically, at least, the race goes to the swift and strong…

Obama is a “do nothin.” He needs to actively oppose Bush, instead of trying to be “bipartisan.” So far, nothing he has done leads me to support him.

BTW–I gave Dodd $50 today. Just like training a puppy, we need to reward good behavior.

“All hat, no cattle”. Where’s the beef, Hillary?

VictorLaszlo @ 8

I’ve always said Dodd, Edwards, Obama, in that order.

Now it’s pretty much Dodd, Dodd, and Dodd.

It’s been Gore, Dodd, Edwards for me for a few months now…

Obama had Lieberman for a mentor, what do you expect?

Word has it that Hillary is consulting with her twenty-two consultants as we speak.

jane – do you know who was responsible for blocking holt’s fisa bill and rushing the fucked up “restore act” through committee and (almost) to a vote? i know conyers and reyes did it – but it seemed like they weren’t calling the shots. pelosi’s office wouldn’t deny that it was her decision.

do you know more?

because what’s happening now in the senate sure seems like a replay of what just happened in the house.

selise @ 17

jane – do you know who was responsible for blocking holt’s fisa bill and rushing the fucked up “restore act” through committee and (almost) to a vote? i know conyers and reyes did it – but it seemed like they weren’t calling the shots. pelosi’s office wouldn’t deny that it was her decision.

do you know more?

because what’s happening now in the senate sure seems like a replay of what just happened in the house.

I do not selise, but if I hear I’ll let you know.

This cowardice leaves me speachless.

Just like training a puppy, we need to reward good behavior.

true – but what is the equivalent of the rolled-up newspaper used for punishing the ones pissing all over the good carpet?

It may be after hours so phone calls might not work until tomorrow morning.

But fax machines work until they run out of paper.

And Reid’s email accepts emails from all over due to his being Majority Leader so we can fill up his inbox.

Inverse FAIR act

As I have said a couple times over at my crappy little blog that only my cats read…

Chris Dodd actually understands what a leader is. So far I do not see any evidence that either of the two front-running Senators have anything other than Nancy Pelosi’s level of leadership skills .. or lack thereof.

Jane Hamsher @ 18

selise @ 17

jane – do you know who was responsible for blocking holt’s fisa bill and rushing the fucked up “restore act” through committee and (almost) to a vote? i know conyers and reyes did it – but it seemed like they weren’t calling the shots. pelosi’s office wouldn’t deny that it was her decision.

do you know more?

because what’s happening now in the senate sure seems like a replay of what just happened in the house.

I do not selise, but if I hear I’ll let you know.

thanks jane.

that was some serious fuckery in the house…. but the kabuki must has been much better, as it seems to have happened more under the radar than what’s going down in the senate.

I still hope Gore comes in.

Bustednuckles @ 15

Obama had Lieberman for a mentor, what do you expect?

Really? Linky please.

And he (and Hillary) each want to be President why, exactly? Because what I’ve seen so far looks more like junior-high ‘politics’. Not worth my time or my money, either one. (I donated to Chris Dodd, though.)

Me too kiddo. lahoma

newspaperbrat @ 26

Bustednuckles @ 15

Obama had Lieberman for a mentor, what do you expect?

Really? Linky please.

Sorry hon’, I don’t have one handy, I’ll see if I can find one though.

rob in toronto @ 23

As I have said a couple times over at my crappy little blog that only my cats read…

Chris Dodd actually understands what a leader is. So far I do not see any evidence that either of the two front-running Senators have anything other than Nancy Pelosi’s level of leadership skills .. or lack thereof.

He is one of the few that will talk to an issue rather around.

newspaperbrat @ 26

Bustednuckles @ 15

Obama had Lieberman for a mentor, what do you expect?

Really? Linky please.

Sad but true

wild speculation here… take it for what it’s worth…

rewind… and say dodd was successful in blocking telco immunity. he looks like (and is) a hero. who does this make look bad? rockefeller could probably care less.

but clinton, obama and even biden might care… makes them look less leader-like.

or not. just throwing out hypotheses here…

Does anyone think that Pelosi or Reid do much without checking with the Clintons first?

Here is another one Newspaperbrat;
http://pieceofmind.wordpress.c…..d-the-dlc/

Excuse me, OT:

Claims of secret CIA jail for terror suspects on British island to be investigated

· Legal charity urges action on Diego Garcia claims
· Prisoners may have been held in ships off coast

Ian Cobain and Richard Norton-Taylor
Friday October 19, 2007
The Guardian

Allegations that the CIA held al-Qaida suspects for interrogation at a secret prison on sovereign British territory are to be investigated by MPs, the Guardian has learned. The all-party foreign affairs committee is to examine long-standing suspicions that the agency has operated one of its so-called “black site” prisons on Diego Garcia, the British overseas territory in the Indian Ocean that is home to a large US military base.

HuffPo.

selise @ 32

but clinton, obama and even biden might care… makes them look less leader-like.

Not possible

selise @ 32

wild speculation here… take it for what it’s worth…

rewind… and say dodd was successful in blocking telco immunity. he looks like (and is) a hero. who does this make look bad? rockefeller could probably care less.

but clinton, obama and even biden might care… makes them look less leader-like“Soft on America”.

or not. just throwing out hypotheses here…

;)

Dodd will get a donation from me. This is the kind of action that shows strength.

rob in toronto @ 36

selise @ 32

but clinton, obama and even biden might care… makes them look less leader-like.

Not possible

LOL!

ok. maybe in their own minds?

rob in toronto @ 23

As I have said a couple times over at my crappy little blog that only my cats read…

Chris Dodd actually understands what a leader is. So far I do not see any evidence that either of the two front-running Senators have anything other than Nancy Pelosi’s level of leadership skills .. or lack thereof.

Absolutely. Dodd is the only one trying to lead, but apparently no-one wants to follow.

rob in toronto @ 31

newspaperbrat @ 26

Really? Linky please.

Sad but true

Much appreciated Rob! Damn.

Heh, Pach and I were just discussing this on the last thread…!!! *g*

Bustednuckles @ 34

Here is another one Newspaperbrat;
http://pieceofmind.wordpress.c…..d-the-dlc/

Merci!

Why not just state the obvious as if we haven’t a billion times already. The bottom line was always, is now and will forever be money. Our government has been beyond corrupted by special interests. Boo Bloody Hoo the telecoms might lose some of their investors money because they illegally played along with spy central. You break the law of the land, you pay. Period!

There is something wrong with a system of choosing a leader that can have such a managerial crop rise to the top.

I have nothing against managers. Many of my best friends are managers. I have been a manager.

The Presidency of the United States of America has to be a position filled by someone who is not just a manager.

I spose this has been mentioned

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Rep. Pete Stark, D-California, is facing fire from Republicans for comments on the House floor Thursday suggesting Americans are dying in Iraq for President Bush’s amusement.

Sharply critical of Bush’s veto of the children’s health insurance legislation, Stark said Republicans are spending money “to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough … to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement.”

Politicians don’t give up power willingly, ever.

So why does Harry believe he can block one senator’s valuable hold power without outraging his colleagues?

OT..Looks as if the WH adjusted Mukasey’s attitude last night.

(snip)
During a second day of hearings on his nomination, Mukasey defended several of the Bush administration’s most controversial legal policies, prompting a drop in temperature in his previously warm relations with Democrats on the committee.

Mukasey, for example, endorsed the administration’s views of expansive presidential authority in the use of executive privilege, saying it would be inappropriate for a U.S. attorney to press for contempt charges against a White House official protected by a claim of executive privilege.
(snip)

WaPo

From opensecrets.org and the 2004 campaign cycle. These are the senate recipients of telecom money. Note how many democrats are in the top few.

Kerry, John (D)
$339,611

Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
$113,755

Wyden, Ron (D-OR)
$93,900

Clinton, Hillary (D-NY)
$82,400

Murkowski, Lisa (R-AK)
$73,062

Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)
$53,658

Reid, Harry (D-NV)
$50,500

Dodd, Christopher J (D-CT)
$16,250

1,630 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Does anyone out there know the logistics of this thing? It’s my understandin’ that Dodd can’t “hold” the bill until it’s voted out of committee to the floor, so old One Horse Harry Reid may jest be feintin’ and shadow boxin’ before the bell rings. If Reid does carry the bill to the floor through Dodd’s hold, then the Democratic Party is split right down the middle and it ain’t the war in Iraq that’s does it. If Reid breaks Dodd’s hold, the losers are gunna be Mrs. Clinton and the existin’ leadership in BOTH houses…the fight will go ta the street then ‘cuz the progressives are gunna hafta stand up and get Dodd’s back or the jig is up and there will be blood in Colorado. Ya think Chicago in ‘68 was hot…wait for Denver!!

KEEP THE FAITH AND START LOADIN’ UP, THE GOOD GUYS ARE GUNNA NEED YA!!

hello???

Check out this piece of Legislation proposed by Ron Paul…

http://www.govtrack.us/congres…..=h110-3835

wordpress workin’?

watch how Obama votes to confirm Mukasey for AG – as Glenn Greenwald says, this is someone who openly admits that he thinks the president has the power of extra-judicial indefinite detention:

The very idea that a nominee for U.S. Attorney General is explicitly open to the possibility that the President can indefinitely imprison U.S. citizens on U.S. soil with no charges is unfathomable. That is the most extreme, un-American and tyrannical power that exists. And yet, not only does his answer trigger virtually no mention by our media, it is almost certain that Mukasey will be confirmed overwhelmingly by the Senate without a ripple.

without a ripple from Obama and Clinton, which should make them beyond the pale, and unsupportable by anyone who cares about such things, callow rhetoric notwithstanding.

Great post, Jane! I expect this kind of thing from Clinton, she usually votes with the Republicans anyway, but I’m disappointed in Obama. In fact, I was writing an email to them earlier this evening saying how I wish he would come right out and say what he believes instead of padding his speeches with Washington double-speak, he didn’t do that back in Illinois. But I didn’t send it, I’ve tried that before, they don’t listen over at Obama Central, they just send more emails asking for money.

jayt @ 53

wordpress workin’?

What’s going on???

The good news is, maybe the Dodd maneuver will take the Republicans by surprise, and they’ll make a mistake. After all, the Republicans have no practice in what to do when a Democrat starts fighting back.

Exactly as Jane says: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/18/175712/83

Harry “the trog” Ried stabs fellow democrat Chris Dodd in the back to appease BushCo and the the telcos. For whom do the Democratic leaders work — visibly it is not for rank-and-file democrats, nor is it for the American electorate. Whom do they serve?

Professor Foland @ 57

The good news is, maybe the Dodd maneuver will take the Republicans by surprise, and they’ll make a mistake. After all, the Republicans have no practice in what to do when a Democrat starts fighting back.

Right, they’re likely to mistake him for a rethug. Imagine the confusion.

CTuttle @ 56

jayt @ 53

wordpress workin’?

What’s going on???

wordpress went wonky – and Beckett’s pitchin’ well at the Jake.

Norske must’ve blown it up.

I’m watching Mukasey hearing on CSPAN….again…that f’er Specter called Valerie Plame, Valerie Flame. Twice in a row. Loud and clear. I find that despicable!!

RawStory has the video of Pete Stark. It is so refreshing to hear a Congress Kritter fight for people. Too many Democratic Congressweasels are fighting for Bush. We will see some “swift boating” against Pete Stark.

You don’t have the money to fund the war or children, but you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people, if we could get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the President’s amusement…

This bill would provide health care for ten million children and, unlike the President’s own kids, these children can’t see a doctor or receive necessary care…

In the previous job as an actor, our Governor used to play make-believe and blow things up. Well, [the] President and Republicans in Congress are playing make-believe today with children’s lives…

President Bush’s statements about children’s health shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than his lies about the war in Iraq. The truth is that Bush just likes to blow things up… in Iraq, in the United States, and in Congress.

jayt @ 60

CTuttle @ 56

What’s going on???

wordpress went wonky – and Beckett’s pitchin’ well at the Jake.

Still a nail biter, I’ve gnawed five of ‘em already…!!! *g*

sporkovat @ 54

watch how Obama votes to confirm Mukasey for AG – as Glenn Greenwald says, this is someone who openly admits that he thinks the president has the power of extra-judicial indefinite detention:

The very idea that a nominee for U.S. Attorney General is explicitly open to the possibility that the President can indefinitely imprison U.S. citizens on U.S. soil with no charges is unfathomable. That is the most extreme, un-American and tyrannical power that exists. And yet, not only does his answer trigger virtually no mention by our media, it is almost certain that Mukasey will be confirmed overwhelmingly by the Senate without a ripple.

without a ripple from Obama and Clinton, which should make them beyond the pale, and unsupportable by anyone who cares about such things, callow rhetoric notwithstanding.

I didn’t watch the hearing but I read that any warmth between the dems and Mukasey cooled over his waterboarding remarks (or lack thereof). Is this true? Any chance he’ll be denied the appointment?

Professor Foland @ 57

The good news is, maybe the Dodd maneuver will take the Republicans by surprise, and they’ll make a mistake. After all, the Republicans have no practice in what to do when a Democrat starts fighting back.

I think they’ll be very confused.

Is Specter the source of Valerie “Flame”????

This is the second hearing that he has referred to her by that name.

LS @ 62

I’m watching Mukasey hearing on CSPAN….again…that f’er Specter called Valerie Plame, Valerie Flame. Twice in a row. Loud and clear. I find that despicable!!

Just tuned in. Thanks.

They got to Mukasey between yesterday and today.

sporkovat @ 54

watch how Obama votes to confirm Mukasey for AG – as Glenn Greenwald says, this is someone who openly admits that he thinks the president has the power of extra-judicial indefinite detention:

The very idea that a nominee for U.S. Attorney General is explicitly open to the possibility that the President can indefinitely imprison U.S. citizens on U.S. soil with no charges is unfathomable. That is the most extreme, un-American and tyrannical power that exists. And yet, not only does his answer trigger virtually no mention by our media, it is almost certain that Mukasey will be confirmed overwhelmingly by the Senate without a ripple.

without a ripple from Obama and Clinton, which should make them beyond the pale, and unsupportable by anyone who cares about such things, callow rhetoric notwithstanding.

Hear! Hear! Damn straight! What they’re telling me is that Mukasey is a more intelligent and better connected fascist than Gonzales. Bully for him. Intelligence and connections are not virtues I seek in fascists.

This hearing should have stopped the moment he said that “We don’t torture …” That proved that he had fully signed on to the BushCo hypocricy. That hearing should have stopped then and there, the moment that he praised the cut of the emperor’s new chothes.

AP – While military action against Iran is a last resort, the U.S. has the resources to attack if needed despite the strains of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the top U.S. military officer said Thursday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..t_pe/gates

No copyright held for the Mitt heading: No Hat No Cattle.

If you think, and you feel, and you’re an American, you are going to be an unhappy person. I am an unhappy person. Getting kicked in the plexus doesn’t create the habit that allows you to like it. I am eating bitter herbs tonight. Why, why why?

solai @ 65

sporkovat @ 54

watch how Obama votes to confirm Mukasey for AG – as Glenn Greenwald says, this is someone who openly admits that he thinks the president has the power of extra-judicial indefinite detention:

without a ripple from Obama and Clinton, which should make them beyond the pale, and unsupportable by anyone who cares about such things, callow rhetoric notwithstanding.

I didn’t watch the hearing but I read that any warmth between the dems and Mukasey cooled over his waterboarding remarks (or lack thereof). Is this true? Any chance he’ll be denied the appointment?

see link @ 48

The rendition hearing is on CSPAN 2
Nadler’s giving his opening statement.

Knut Wicksell @ 73

If you think, and you feel, and you’re an American, you are going to be an unhappy person. I am an unhappy person. Getting kicked in the plexus doesn’t create the habit that allows you to like it. I am eating bitter herbs tonight. Why, why why?

Because the sweet ones are illegal.

We were discussing yesterday that Mukasey’s testimony was full of evasions. I think Senators picked up on this and came back today with slightly more pointed questions which showed that yes, Mukasey refused to be specific about anything. It soured the atmosphere but not enough to cause anyone to change their vote. That would have taken principles and they don’t have any.

Hugh @ 77

We were discussing yesterday that Mukasey’s testimony was full of evasions. I think Senators picked up on this and came back today with slightly more pointed questions which showed that yes, Mukasey refused to be specific about anything. It soured the atmosphere but not enough to cause anyone to change their vote. That would have taken principles and they don’t have any.

His demeanor was very different today. He’s been “talked” to.

Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow we will (someone will) be calm enough to parse this all out. Reid and Pelosi are basically on our side. I believe that. That doesn’t mean I acquiesce in Reid’s statement; but it leaves room for suspension of disbelief. What’s the logic here? Are they being blackmailed? Possible, but I doubt Reid would submit to it. He’s got balls. Is there some political calculation that the Dems lose more by opposing than by playing rope-a-dope? I think that’s what he’s got in mind. This plays to the Hoyer/Lieberman/Feinstein sell-out constituency, but doesn’t mean the logic is false. What else? Cowardice? Possible, but they read the polls like us.

It’s a riddle. And it is excruciating. Someone ought to stand up for rule of law, and explain to the people what it means. It is who we are.

CTuttle @ 52

Check out this piece of Legislation proposed by Ron Paul…

http://www.govtrack.us/congres…..=h110-3835

Cool!

SEC. 3. MILITARY COMMISSIONS; ENEMY COMBATANTS; HABEAS CORPUS.

(a) The Military Commissions Act of 2006 is hereby repealed.

(b) The President is authorized to establish military commissions for the trial of war crimes only in places of active hostilities against the United States where an immediate trial is necessary to preserve fresh evidence or to prevent local anarchy.

(c) The President is prohibited from detaining any individual indefinitely as an unlawful enemy combatant absent proof by substantial evidence that the individual has directly engaged in active hostilities against the United States, provided that no United States citizen shall be detained as an unlawful enemy combatant.

(d) Any individual detained as an enemy combatant by the United States shall be entitled to petition for a writ of habeas corpus under section 2241 of title 28, United States Code.

I agree with the topic of this post. Obama, for instance, says how he was always against the war but he has not led the fight against it in the Senate. Where was Hillary on SCHIP? Their positions as candidates do not translate into actions in the Senate. That was what was so refreshing about Dodd today. He not only had a position but he acted on it.

His demeanor was very different today. He’s been “talked” to.

fwiw – he was asked whether that was in fact the case, and swore that nobody’d “spoken” to him – he had a quiet dinner with the family last night he said…

T- @ 61

Norske must’ve blown it up.

707!

mui @ 66

Professor Foland @ 57

The good news is, maybe the Dodd maneuver will take the Republicans by surprise, and they’ll make a mistake. After all, the Republicans have no practice in what to do when a Democrat starts fighting back.

I think they’ll be very confused.

So are the hillary bots on dKos!

LS @ 78

Hugh @ 77

We were discussing yesterday that Mukasey’s testimony was full of evasions. I think Senators picked up on this and came back today with slightly more pointed questions which showed that yes, Mukasey refused to be specific about anything. It soured the atmosphere but not enough to cause anyone to change their vote. That would have taken principles and they don’t have any.

His demeanor was very different today. He’s been “talked” to.

He may have been but if you go back and look at what he actually said yesterday it really is no different from what he said today. All that Mukasey comes out against torture and the unilateral executive was just so much hot air put out by the media, who, no surprise, dutifully reported their talking points.

I have to agree with the comments about the poor showing of Clinton and Obama in all this. Sadly they are showing themselves to be nothing more than politicians. That being said I would still vote for either of them than any republican.

My fervent wish is for Gore to finally declare. Although I would not blame him in the least if he did not. He would be attacked relentlessly. And who in their right mind would want that? But still, he seems to be the only one who has any kind of integrity. And besides, he won in 2000 so it’s only fair.

And I think Gore would do the right things to fix (or at least start to fix) the devestation the Bushco will leave.

jayt @ 82

His demeanor was very different today. He’s been “talked” to.

fwiw – he was asked whether that was in fact the case, and swore that nobody’d “spoken” to him – he had a quiet dinner with the family last night he said…

I don’t believe it. If they had a little talk with him, I’m sure it was with a little threat that he won’t be “protected”, if he deviates from the narrative. He is clearly taking a completely different direction. It is like watching a completely different person. He’s nervous, and he’s defending the Admin, and the questioners see it.

Hugh @ 81

I agree with the topic of this post. Obama, for instance, says how he was always against the war but he has not led the fight against it in the Senate. Where was Hillary on SCHIP? Their positions as candidates do not translate into actions in the Senate. That was what was so refreshing about Dodd today. He not only had a position but he acted on it.

Exactly!

Hugh @ 85

LS @ 78

His demeanor was very different today. He’s been “talked” to.

He may have been but if you go back and look at what he actually said yesterday he really is no different from what he said today. All that Mukasey comes out against torture and the unilateral executive was just so much hot air put out by the media, who, no surprise, dutifully reported their talking points.

I watched him yesterday, and he’s behaving differently.

Hugh @ 81

I agree with the topic of this post. Obama, for instance, says how he was always against the war but he has not led the fight against it in the Senate. Where was Hillary on SCHIP? Their positions as candidates do not translate into actions in the Senate. That was what was so refreshing about Dodd today. He not only had a position but he acted on it.

Right on!

[Yeah, I’m having comment system problems too. Try, try again …]

You’d think a bunch of people all coming under pressure at the same time to do objectionable things would realize their common problem one day and decide “To hell with this, let’s call them out.”

Maybe not many of them object.

OT: On Scarecrow’s post this morning the question came up whether it was a new thing for Brush to claim that Iran’s “knowledge” of nuclear weapons technology was practically an act of war. Here, accompanied by a priceless photo, is one earlier statement of something similar, from 2006. The bellicosity is less overt perhaps, but clearly the ideas or memories of physics classes wandering through the minds of sundry Iranians are available to be used against them.

He said the world “is united and concerned about their desire to have not only a nuclear weapon but the capacity to make a nuclear weapon or the knowledge to make a nuclear weapon.”

(sticking head out from behind curtain) maybe he wasn’t ‘talked’ to – maybe a little message was left for him, like – oh, i don’t know… a horse head in his bed

There were at least three times during the Bush administration I did not get excited. When Rumsfeld left, and the same with Rove and Gonzales. I just figured it wouldn’t make much diffference.

Mukasey was awful yesterday and downright Gonzalean today.

Suzanne @ 92

(sticking head out from behind curtain) maybe he wasn’t ‘talked’ to – maybe a little message was left for him, like – oh, i don’t know… a horse head in his bed

707!!!

OMFG: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..7101801840

“He’s at least answered the questions, which is better than his predecessor,” Leahy said, referring to the habit of Alberto R. Gonzales, who resigned last month as attorney general, of being unable to recall details or make clear declarations. “He’s going to be different than Gonzales on all the issues, I think. He will certainly be better than Gonzales on morale.”

Is there any bar lower on the face of the earth than to give congress better responses than did Alberto Gonzales?

What the fuck is wrong with our Democratic senators. Why aren’t they yelling in this fascist’s face?

Just testing here to see if the comments are operational again.

Hey, everyone.

LS @ 89

Hugh @ 85

He may have been but if you go back and look at what he actually said yesterday he really is no different from what he said today. All that Mukasey comes out against torture and the unilateral executive was just so much hot air put out by the media, who, no surprise, dutifully reported their talking points.

I watched him yesterday, and he’s behaving differently.

I keep thinking of Frank Rich’s column about ‘Good Germans’. If they approve this nomination, knowing his views on torture, then they are accomplices.

Eureka Springs @ 94

Mukasey was awful yesterday and downright Gonzalean today.

Yes, he reminded me of Gonzo. I’m like…where was that guy I saw yesterday. I’ll bet he wishes he could disappear withdraw…

Basically the main thing I care about now is if we can make it during the next fourteen months without a nuclear war.

Then of course there are Dodd and Edwards. Bit I keep coming back to Gore. How I wish we could have eight years of Gore leadership. Let the MSM and all the incredibly stupid pundits yammer for eight years. At least things would get done and we would begin to get back on the right track.

TRex @ 97

Just testing here to see if the comments are operational again.

Hey, everyone.

re!

TRex @ 97

Just testing here to see if the comments are operational again.

Hey, everyone.

*knocking on wood* they appear to be working – slow but working

Oklahoma kiddo @ 100

Basically the main thing I care about now is if we can make it during the next fourteen months without a nuclear war.

Ain’t that the truth.

wigwam @ 96

OMFG: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..7101801840

“He’s at least answered the questions, which is better than his predecessor,” Leahy said, referring to the habit of Alberto R. Gonzales, who resigned last month as attorney general, of being unable to recall details or make clear declarations. “He’s going to be different than Gonzales on all the issues, I think. He will certainly be better than Gonzales on morale.”

Is there any bar lower on the face of the earth than to give congress better responses than did Alberto Gonzales?

What the fuck is wrong with our Democratic senators. Why aren’t they yelling in this fascist’s face?

See, he even reminded Leahy of Gonzo today.

Words, photo ops, words, empty promises…

So much for the revolution.

twk, I particularly enjoyed these sections…

SEC. 5. INTELLIGENCE GATHERING.

No Federal agency shall gather foreign intelligence in contravention of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.). The President’s constitutional power to gather foreign intelligence is subordinated to this provision.

SEC. 6. PRESIDENTIAL SIGNING STATEMENTS.

The House of Representatives and Senate collectively shall enjoy standing to file a declaratory judgment action in an appropriate Federal district court to challenge the constitutionality of a presidential signing statement that declares the President’s intent to disregard provisions of a bill he has signed into law because he believes they are unconstitutional.

test?

CTuttle @ 111

twk, I particularly enjoyed these sections…

SEC. 5. INTELLIGENCE GATHERING.

No Federal agency shall gather foreign intelligence in contravention of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.). The President’s constitutional power to gather foreign intelligence is subordinated to this provision.

SEC. 6. PRESIDENTIAL SIGNING STATEMENTS.

The House of Representatives and Senate collectively shall enjoy standing to file a declaratory judgment action in an appropriate Federal district court to challenge the constitutionality of a presidential signing statement that declares the President’s intent to disregard provisions of a bill he has signed into law because he believes they are unconstitutional.

Oh Hell Yeah!

Maher Arar describing his torture…CSPAN.

Suzanne @ 92

(sticking head out from behind curtain) maybe he wasn’t ‘talked’ to – maybe a little message was left for him, like – oh, i don’t know… a horse head in his bed

A rather persuasive argument…!!! ;-)

wigwam @ 96

OMFG: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..7101801840

“He’s at least answered the questions, which is better than his predecessor,” Leahy said, referring to the habit of Alberto R. Gonzales, who resigned last month as attorney general, of being unable to recall details or make clear declarations. “He’s going to be different than Gonzales on all the issues, I think. He will certainly be better than Gonzales on morale.”

Is there any bar lower on the face of the earth than to give congress better responses than did Alberto Gonzales?

What the fuck is wrong with our Democratic senators. Why aren’t they yelling in this fascist’s face?

umm? maybe because the (D) Party is a elite faction that also supports corporate authoritarianism in the Homeland and constant war in the rest of the world?

this hypothesis helps explain much.

What about you, Senator Clinton? Many members of your inner sanctum lobby heavily for the telecom industry. What will it be?

gitmo for all who stand in my way

LS @ 78

Hugh @ 77

We were discussing yesterday that Mukasey’s testimony was full of evasions. I think Senators picked up on this and came back today with slightly more pointed questions which showed that yes, Mukasey refused to be specific about anything. It soured the atmosphere but not enough to cause anyone to change their vote. That would have taken principles and they don’t have any.

His demeanor was very different today. He’s been “talked” to.

With all due respect, he was an obvious fascist yesterday. How the hell did he disillusion anyone today?

CTuttle @ 111

Suzanne @ 92

(sticking head out from behind curtain) maybe he wasn’t ‘talked’ to – maybe a little message was left for him, like – oh, i don’t know… a horse head in his bed

A rather persuasive argument…!!! ;-)

Maybe they took him out to dinner…

First course: Horses’ ovaries
Salad: Hay/alfalfa mix
Main Course: Filet of Horse’s brain with appropriate herbs, baked turdblossom, and roasted cow patties.
Dessert: Manure Tea Ice Cream
Beverage: Koolaid

Are we prepared to say Mukasey is a political hack?

Chris Dodd just proved it didn’t, and Harry Reid smacked him down for it.

and sartorially striking in the Reno Men’s Wear suit he picked out just last Wednesday with colours resembling a fierce kidney bean

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 117

What about you, Senator Clinton? Many members of your inner sanctum lobby heavily for the telecom industry. What will it be?

gitmo for all who stand in my way

707!

prolly tru tho :S

Oklahoma kiddo @ 116

Are we prepared to say Mukasey is a political hack?

Is he a person being appointed to a post by George W Bush?

sporkovat @ 112

wigwam @ 96

OMFG: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..7101801840
Is there any bar lower on the face of the earth than to give congress better responses than did Alberto Gonzales?

What the fuck is wrong with our Democratic senators. Why aren’t they yelling in this fascist’s face?

umm? maybe because the (D) Party is a elite faction that also supports corporate authoritarianism in the Homeland and constant war in the rest of the world?

this hypothesis helps explain much.

I’m sure. But they’re paid to play the game and they’re not playing it. They’re like boxers who can’t be bothered to throw punches. Throw the basterds out!

T- @ 49

From opensecrets.org and the 2004 campaign cycle. These are the senate recipients of telecom money. Note how many democrats are in the top few.

Kerry, John (D)
$339,611

Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
$113,755

Wyden, Ron (D-OR)
$93,900

Clinton, Hillary (D-NY)
$82,400

Murkowski, Lisa (R-AK)
$73,062

Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)
$53,658

Reid, Harry (D-NV)
$50,500

Dodd, Christopher J (D-CT)
$16,250

Here’s what puzzles me, though. This is chump change. I mean, money needed for ads, for campaigns, etc, are all in the hundreds of thousands. I don’t get it.

peanutbutter @ 121

T- @ 49

Reid, Harry (D-NV)
$50,500

Here’s what puzzles me, though. This is chump change. I mean, money needed for ads, for campaigns, etc, are all in the hundreds of thousands. I don’t get it.

Sorry, I meant to be focusing on Reid’s amounts. Maybe Kerry’s borking/brokering everything under the table!!

*confuzzled*

CTuttle @ 111

Suzanne @ 92

(sticking head out from behind curtain) maybe he wasn’t ‘talked’ to – maybe a little message was left for him, like – oh, i don’t know… a horse head in his bed

A rather persuasive argument…!!! ;-)

Even if it wasn’t his horse.

Perhaps the quiet dinner he and the mrs sat down to at home last night was pet rabbit.

Let’s look at this differently….Harpers apparently has a story (I just don’t have the link handy), that Gonzo sicked something like 100 people to invade and search donors to Edwards…

Okay…there we have it. They have been spying on their opponents…they want “dirt”. They are looking for “dirt” to “use” against “everyone” that opposes them. Period. Watergate on Steroids.

That is what is going on. They snoop, threaten, and twist arms. They are a Mob!

Sounds like it’s time for RICO!!!Suzanne @ 124

Perhaps the quiet dinner he and the mrs sat down to at home last night was pet rabbit.

Gawd!!!

peanutbutter @ 122

peanutbutter @ 121

Here’s what puzzles me, though. This is chump change. I mean, money needed for ads, for campaigns, etc, are all in the hundreds of thousands. I don’t get it.

Sorry, I meant to be focusing on Reid’s amounts. Maybe Kerry’s borking/brokering everything under the table!!

*confuzzled*

Yeah, me too. has to be more to it.

Knut Wicksell @ 79

Reid and Pelosi are basically on our side. I believe that.

faith based or evidence based.

no disparagement intended if faith based… but if evidence based, i’m interested in your evidence.

thx.

LS @ 125

Let’s look at this differently….Harpers apparently has a story (I just don’t have the link handy), that Gonzo sicked something like 100 people to invade and search donors to Edwards…

Okay…there we have it. They have been spying on their opponents…they want “dirt”. They are looking for “dirt” to “use” against “everyone” that opposes them. Period. Watergate on Steroids.

That is what is going on. They snoop, threaten, and twist arms. They are a Mob!

Sounds like it’s time for RICO!!!Suzanne @ 124

Perhaps the quiet dinner he and the mrs sat down to at home last night was pet rabbit.

Gawd!!!

Harpers

Gonzales personally authorized a small army of nearly 100 federal agents to raid a law office and simultaneously raid the homes of its employees and their families. Indeed, one agent commented about how he had been flown in from Iraq to help find out why American citizens had made contributions to the John Edwards campaign.

TRex upstairs

Another thought again is the reality of life in DC. The cocktail circuit…it is a boozebelt…a schmoooz belt…they are all buddies and more…starstruck most of them…little kids grown up and stunned that they are “really” there, they’ve made it…and they have their little “friends”…

Truly, that is a reality of life in DC. Most of it is that “basic”. Really puts meaning into “politics are local”…it is true. Mrs. blah, blah…is all flattered when Senator blah, blah tells her she looks hot in pearls and she tells him his jokes are hilarious.
Human nature….and booze.

I am just floored to see what it looks like when a Democratic Senator actually plays to win. I think his temerity has shocked the shite out of his colleagues. Boy does it make Clinton and Obama look mealy-mouthed and hand-wringing! And totally underscores our intense thirst for real, principled leadership.

Reid and Pelosi are basically on our side. I believe that.

picture this: it’s 1921. harry wants to help you get your model-T on the road. he’s willing to lend a hand.
picture this: it’s 1967. nancy pelosi wants you to enjoy 3 Dog Night. She’ll even loan you her new album.

I’m guessing that the lean mean Nevada kaboy who is Harry Reid is now vying to take the title of “Wrecks-all Wrangler” from You Know Who.

Harry, Nancy and Steny must go. Cindy Sheehan for Congress! Any actual progressive with principles to replace Harry and Steny.

This is digusting.

Eureka Springs @ 128

LS @ 125

Let’s look at this differently….Harpers apparently has a story (I just don’t have the link handy), that Gonzo sicked something like 100 people to invade and search donors to Edwards…

Okay…there we have it. They have been spying on their opponents…they want “dirt”. They are looking for “dirt” to “use” against “everyone” that opposes them. Period. Watergate on Steroids.

That is what is going on. They snoop, threaten, and twist arms. They are a Mob!

Sounds like it’s time for RICO!!!

Gawd!!!

Harpers

Gonzales personally authorized a small army of nearly 100 federal agents to raid a law office and simultaneously raid the homes of its employees and their families. Indeed, one agent commented about how he had been flown in from Iraq to help find out why American citizens had made contributions to the John Edwards campaign.

And Gonzales was the man who’d select and approve of which Americans the NSA could/would target. Richard Nixon’s wet dream!

All you bashing Obama on this confuse the hell out of me. He’s clearly stated his opposition to giving these telecom companies immunity. What’s the problem here?

Is Russ Feingold now also a sell out? Feingold didn’t put a hold on the bill.

Sometimes I’m just flat out baffled by the blogosphere.

Jane, whenever I write to Democrats, I tell them that they are not going to be judged on their personal record so much as on their performance as a team.

I very often write to them to explain why I am returning their fundraising envelopes with no cash. Especially if they are paying the postage.

These are ways to get a bit more attention than just calling their office on an issue.

I am ashamed to be an American now. The party that is supposed to be the check and the balance, going ahead and punishing their own for doing what 75% of the people ask them to do.

mr. reid has to be in league with the criminal, and you now understand why he loves him some joe liebertorture

Crispus Attucks at 135, I am looking for a leader. You know, the kind that stands up and says “follow me” or “no, you can’t treat the constitution like that” or some such. Obama and Clinton are saying words but not doing any heavy lifting. They are too busy trying to raise and spend money.

These are dangerous times, and I want a leader who has courage. Not political finese. If that is what it is. Personally, I think the telecoms are funneling money, or promising money, to the dems in very large amounts for the election next year if they don’t rock the boat.

The dems are now complicit in this mess by doing so little, i.e., Obama.

And, Russ Feingold is also complicit? Give me a break.

Within hours of Chris Dodd’s hold Obama made clear that he was also opposed to telecom immunity.

In fact, in the past week Obama himself used the “hold manuever” to stop a horrible FEC appointment.

This idea that Obama doesn’t lead is without any justification. One can only come to that conclusion if you are holding Obama to a different standard than everyone else.

At this point it seems like Telco Immunity is a done deal. Whatever posturing Dodd does will be tamped down. The Democratic candidates can and will do nothing to stop the Republican freigh train to roll over any semblance of right you thought you had, and again your Congress and Senate thinks so little of you they will tell you nothing about negotiations for the bill and don’t think you have any need whatsoever to know what the Telcos have done or any of the illegal wiretapping that has gone on for the past ten years. They expect for you if you are seen, not to be heard and calling them has done precisely what to prevent Democratic caveins in the last three years?

Your Congress and your Senate thinks so highly of you that you cannot find one media outlet that tells you:

1) Anything at all about the bills being marked up or any prospect of finding out.
2)Anything at all about what anyone from Senate Judiciary or Senate Intelligence or their corresponding House committees have been shown that they have insisted they want to see.

You can consistently follow Leahy, Specter, Rockerfeller, Reid, and Durbin to watch them cave time and time again as they are in the Telco legislation as you watch them roll over, play dead, and grant the Telcos complete retroactive immunity in one of the most tragic precedents Congress has set in the history of this country.

So what this boils down to whether it’s the lovefest with Grandpa “Torture is OK” and “Unitary Executive” is the way to fly” Mukasey or Tellco immunity is that the Democrats are as usual in the final analysis heeling like puppie dogs to anything that the Republicans want no matter how outrageous when the word Terrorism is brandished, despite the fact that the Republicans could not have done a more incompetent job in the last seven years protecting this country from terror.
]
According to the NYT and many other sources:

“The United States is continuing to make large payments of roughly $1 billion a year to Pakistan for what it calls reimbursements to the country’s military for conducting counterterrorism efforts along the border with Afghanistan, even though Pakistan’s president decided eight months ago to slash patrols through the area where Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters are most active.”

That particular effort of money hemorrhage in Pakistan is going about as well as Katrina.

The Democrats may be in narrow control, but the Republicans are winnning every battle and every war consistently with the help of hte Democratic lap dogs.

Jane! Whap! 30 rows deep in dead centerfield…

to use a trendy metaphor. :o)

You “leaders”! If you aint gonna walk the walk, don’t talk the talk.

We be’s watching you.

And, John Edwards has been relatively quiet, lately.

I HOPE he’s mulling, and thinkin’:

“This is fucked. SOMEBODY needs to start seriously rocking the boat, and it might as well be me. Lesseee…how’s this for starters:

“PEOPLE! Our troops and that $2.5 billion a week are being sacrificed to try to cover george bush and the GOP’s political asses, to try to give them time to get out of Dodge and stick the democrats with the child support for the monstrosity they’ve sired in Iraq.

Would you not like to do something about this situation?”

As Judy Tenuda says:

“HEY! It could happen!” :o)

Oklahoma kiddo @ 33

Does anyone think that Pelosi or Reid do much without checking with the Clintons first?

No. You’re right on the money here.

The Harper’s and Huff articles get to my point: with this much of this kind of stuff going on. you’d think by now it would have dawned on a lot of the targets that they are, shall we say, in it together. Instead we keeping getting retreats of increasing ignominy.

Kudos for Dodd take the lead on this issue, but this punishment of Obama is a bit disingenuous. To be frank, Dodd, has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected President. I generally like him and think he will make an excellent Majority Leader. But let’s get real. He was in DC today for one reason and one reason only–he didn’t have any campaigning to do. Biden was in Iowa. Obama was in Nevada. Clinton was in DC.

While it would be ideal that candidates would drop everything on a moment’s notice, the reality (in this situation) was that this bill wasn’t brought to the floor for a vote. He’s on record speaking out against it. If he doesn’t back that talk up in the coming days, then feel free to have at him. To do so at this point, though, is just disingenuous.

KJ @ 146

Kudos for Dodd take the lead on this issue, but this punishment of Obama is a bit disingenuous. To be frank, Dodd, has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected President. I generally like him and think he will make an excellent Majority Leader. But let’s get real. He was in DC today for one reason and one reason only–he didn’t have any campaigning to do. Biden was in Iowa. Obama was in Nevada. Clinton was in DC.

While it would be ideal that candidates would drop everything on a moment’s notice, the reality (in this situation) was that this bill wasn’t brought to the floor for a vote. He’s on record speaking out against it. If he doesn’t back that talk up in the coming days, then feel free to have at him. To do so at this point, though, is just disingenuous.

As respectfully as I can say this, his record is clear on the Constitution, going a ways back. And since when did any Progressive feel the need to dis a pol who said (and IMO, believes) exactly and precisely what they do?
We moan here a lot about the lack of stand-up Senators and critters. Someone stands up and you want to suggest he’s a piker for votes? No dice.

prostratedragon @ 145

The Harper’s and Huff articles get to my point: with this much of this kind of stuff going on. you’d think by now it would have dawned on a lot of the targets that they are, shall we say, in it together. Instead we keeping getting retreats of increasing ignominy.

We must continue to hold their ignominous feets to the fires of the dragon’s breath.

*G*

I just re read Heinlein’s “Between Planets” recently. Venuvian Dragons. True Speech. Whistled greetings and such.

I’m always quite taken when I see your handle . . . it, like your musings, is way kewl . . . “May you die a glorious death.” (it’s in the book)

newtonusr @ 147

KJ @ 146

Kudos for Dodd take the lead on this issue, but this punishment of Obama is a bit disingenuous. To be frank, Dodd, has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected President. I generally like him and think he will make an excellent Majority Leader. But let’s get real. He was in DC today for one reason and one reason only–he didn’t have any campaigning to do. Biden was in Iowa. Obama was in Nevada. Clinton was in DC.

While it would be ideal that candidates would drop everything on a moment’s notice, the reality (in this situation) was that this bill wasn’t brought to the floor for a vote. He’s on record speaking out against it. If he doesn’t back that talk up in the coming days, then feel free to have at him. To do so at this point, though, is just disingenuous.

As respectfully as I can say this, his record is clear on the Constitution, going a ways back. And since when did any Progressive feel the need to dis a pol who said (and IMO, believes) exactly and precisely what they do?
We moan here a lot about the lack of stand-up Senators and critters. Someone stands up and you want to suggest he’s a piker for votes? No dice.

I’m not suggesting that he’s a piker (and if came across that way, I apologize). My bigger issue is that, if I understand the timeline, people are acting as if Obama was in DC and didn’t take any action at the time. Earlier this week Kos and others were championing him placing a hold on the Hans Van Spakovsky’s (sp) nomination to the FEC. Now, he’s chopped liver because he didn’t get out a statement fast enough? Again, if he doesn’t follow through or step up in other ways going forward, have at him. But as far as I can tell, people are overreacting.

Why, thank you kindly, larue.

[But if truth be told, maybe the dragon is stirring, a little.]

CHRIS DODD ♥ US CONSTITUTION
.

tw3k @ 126

peanutbutter @ 122

Sorry, I meant to be focusing on Reid’s amounts. Maybe Kerry’s borking/brokering everything under the table!!

*confuzzled*

Yeah, me too. has to be more to it.

Does this include “bundled” money—maybe the wrong term, but I mean individuals who are used to make donations on behalf of the corporations themselves?

Democrats aren’t caving to anyone. They’re in the pockets of the telecoms, too, alas.

I don’t get why everyone is singling out Obama for criticism on this? He’s the only other candidate who’s even released a statement so far as I can tell. Where’s Edwards’ rapid response team? And Hillary, as Jane mentioned, has been conspicuously silent. Where are all the second tier candidates, and why do they not get a share of the ridicule?

And it seems a little forgetful to me to bash Obama for being some kind of do-nothing when just 3 days ago he derailed Hans von Spakovsky’s nomination to the FEC with, you guessed it, a hold. I think Spakovsky getting on the FEC would’ve been a pretty big deal, too, and Dodd didn’t do anything about that one.

Yeah, he missed the boat on this one and Dodd got on it (after being lobbied hard by bloggers, by the way), so kudos to Dodd. But isn’t it a little unfair to light up Dodd’s phones, AND ONLY DODD’S, and then criticize Obama for not being quicker to the punch? Wouldn’t this be a fairer critique if we had lit up both of their phones?

Here’s another question: shouldn’t we be happy that at least 2 of our presidential candidates are taking stands in the Senate while waging presidential campaigns, that we are stuck with a field of Hillarys and Bidens?

Couldn’t bear a snippy phone response so I emailed Reid (with a note using one of the Salon comments as a starting point).

Incidentally, IMO Krugman’s article today on corporate contributions to the Dems may help explain Reid’s attitude and a lot of other things the Dems have been screwing up lately.

Alarmingly, CNN reported this morning via Dow Jones news servies that Obama refused to comment despite pressure from bloggers.

Obama’s office, as well as the campaign and Senate offices for Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., have refused to comment.

http://money.cnn.com/news/news…..RTUNE5.htm