It’s crunch time on SCHIP. Christy and Jane have been laying out argument after argument in favor of SCHIP, urging us to get on the phones to our members of Congress — especially the Bush Dogs. One argument that hasn’t gotten much play is the one that may carry a lot of weight in certain red-leaning districts — the religious one.
Lutheran Bishop Mark S. Hanson wrote to the members of Congress on Monday:
I believe that there are economic and pragmatic reasons why this bill makes sense. By multiple measures, SCHIP has been a bipartisan success and a victory for our nation’s low income children. However, as a Christian church we offer not only fiscal arguments but, first and foremost, a moral voice. As Martin Luther King, Jr. admonished, “the church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state.” . . .
I offer my deepest thanks and appreciation to those senators and representatives who have already voted to reauthorize SCHIP. I commend your principled and compassionate stand on behalf of low income children and urge you and your colleagues to again reaffirm this commitment by voting to override President Bush’s veto of the SCHIP compromise bill. If you have opposed this bill, I ask you to prayerfully reconsider in light of what we believe is our government’s moral obligation of “ensuring equitable access to health care for all.”
Hanson’s not alone in the religious community, though the media has barely noticed. Consider Rev. R. Randy Day, General Secretary of the General Board of Global Ministries of the United Methodist Church:
We firmly believe that all children in the US deserve the opportunity for a healthy life and the people of The United Methodist Church strongly agree and have voiced their support for the SCHIP legislation. The substantial bipartisan support for SCHIP proves that this reauthorization is needed and worthy of your undivided support. The urgent need for this legislation can be seen in the fact that the number of uninsured children increased by one million in the past year. Children’s lives are at stake if this legislation does not get enacted. . .
United Methodists have long supported the value of public education for all children, wealthy and poor alike; we feel we have a moral obligation to work with our government representatives to insure health care for all children who need this invaluable service. In addition, with no national healthcare plan, many uninsured families in the United States are just one illness or one accident away from bankruptcy which affects the whole family.
Providing funding for SCHIP in the United States contributes to the mission of improving healthcare globally and sends a positive message to the world that we as a nation care for our children. It is a travesty that the US is one of the wealthiest nations on earth, and yet also one of the only industrialized nations that does not provide comprehensive healthcare to all its children.
How about Rabbi David Sapperstein:
We are deeply disappointment by President Bush’s decision to go against the will of the American people and the strong bipartisan support for the bill among members of Congress. His veto of the SCHIP reauthorization bill has put the future of health care coverage for 10 million children in jeopardy and calls into question his commitment to improving health care access for America’s lower income populations. . .
Since 1997, the State Children’s Health Insurance Program has provided 6.6 million children across America with much-needed health care. With the expansion of this program in the proposed reauthorization bill, 4 million children, who would otherwise be uninsured, will gain coverage. Children who are covered by SCHIP will have opportunities to establish relationships with primary care physicians, access dental and mental health care, and obtain much-needed medical attention. Enacting this bill is a most effective way to improve the lives of America’s children.
The Jewish tradition teaches, “Do not neglect the children of the poor, for from them will go forth the Law” (Nedarim 81). In this spirit, we ask you to vote to override President Bush’s veto and make an investment in America’s future by ensuring that 10 million of America’s children receive the health care that they deserve.
Catholic Charities USA calls for overriding Bush’s veto and passing SCHIP, as does the Catholic Health Association. So does the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the Islamic Society of North America. Indeed, 22 religious organizations banded together in this letter to support SCHIP:
Our many faith traditions teach us to care for those who are in need of healing, especially children and those in greatest need. The Christian scriptures portray Jesus as a healer who showed particular compassion for the needs of children. The Hebrew scriptures call us to ensure a balm of healing for the poor through the words of the Prophet Jeremiah (8:22) and the Qur’an says of the Lord’s ministry: When I am sick, then He restores me to health (26:80). We believe we must act in accord with callings of our faith by protecting children, which includes providing for their health and well-being. . . .
The bottom line is that this bill reauthorizes coverage for millions of poor children. SCHIP provides government financed care delivered through public and private services. Far from “government-run healthcare,” this SCHIP reauthorization bill is simply a straightforward and sensible way to cover millions more children who currently are uninsured. We ask you to vote yes for these kids.
If your representative is highly and publicly religious, you might want to mention the opinions of these religious leaders when you call their offices. If Catholics and Lutherans, Jews and Muslims can get behind SCHIP, surely it’s not too much to ask that Republicans join Democrats and do the same.
And if your looking for non-religious reasons to push for SCHIP, the Majority Whip’s office has a great page summarizing the bill.
To the phones, people.
(photo via Shavar)
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Zed.
Glad to see something on SCHIP. I didn’t see anything today here prior to this. Was hopin’ it wasn’t throw in the towel time. I read a great fllor speech on this. Not eloquent-great (can you read eloquence?) but sensible-great.
By Orrin Hatch of all people.
Republics seem to be conveniently religious and are therefore immune to religious appeals.
Great point Peterr, this has not been allowed any coverage and has a lot of muscle behind it.
Great Post Peterr!
Let’s Hope that Republicans of Faith have some Charity in them.
Just curious, but what is Focus on the Family’s position on SCHIP and the veto override? I did a quick google search and found nada.
Hello, Peterr!
mc @ 6
I had exactly the same thought.
mc @ 6
that particular brand of nasty doesn’t liike SCHIP ’cause it might be the first step to “rationing” of government healthcare and “socialism” and ’cause it doesn’t promote abstinence among parents whose kids should never have been conceived (poor kids… ‘course once conceived, they can’t be aborted. Seriously.
Hi Peter. Thank you for this. There’s very little good press about what some organized denominations are supporting.
I’m sorry to say this, but I don’t view the leaders of Focus On The Family folks in the same ballpark as the leaders mentioned in the above post.
(and re: to comment #7, I’ll be happy to turn my cheek to your questions.) Peace.
Nice Peterr. Thanks.
You mean even those evil Liberals pray?
Repeating myself from last thread, but now On topic.
Just-out-numbers useful for emailing Congresscritters:
70% of Americans support the extension of SCHIP, including 54% of Republicans.
Now you can tell them that Catholics, Luterans, and Republicans all support SCHIP
http://www.npr.org/news/graphi…..harts.html
How absurd to have Diane Feinstein a war profiteer introduce the Dali Lama. Absurd
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..p;Code=CS3
Cite: Whatsoever ye do unto the least of my brethren ye do unto me….
common good = good government
how far have BushCo strayed from that simple truth.
demand better. be better
[Go, Edwards!]
Just before the last block quote, when you’re writing about the 22 organizations, the word “oppose” should be “support”.
Hello Dali well hello Dali it would be so nice to see you back where you belong. Tibet
Breaking. What a trip. The lovely Dali Lama and the president. The sacred and the profane. The president is the only one who looks uncomfortable.
Thanks for this wonderful post, Peterrr. Spotlight, spotlight, spotlight!
I’m reminded, too, of Niemoller:
They came for me, and there was nobody left to do anything.
So far, BushCo has come for ill-equipped soldiers and wounded veterans, people in poverty, immigrants, gays, the beleaguered working class, now children.
When is enough, enough? And who will be left to do anything?
Kathleen @ 16
The Dali Lama belongs to the world. Nepal. America. Wherever.
The question is going to come down to which Repubs will get brave and break with Bush/Cheney?
That is what it is all about.
Right now, they’ve been pistol-whipped and threatened – they are scared. The question is who do they fear more?
Bush/Cheney?
The Base?
Obviously, they are not afraid of doing something that is perceived as not the right thing. They’ve been doing the wrong thing for ages. The question is do they feel that they will be made to PAY in the next election.
Blub @ 9
I don’t view Dobson as “religious” or a “leader” either, but FOTF is a political heavyweight nonetheless. Because I couldn’t find an official statement from it, I began to wonder why FOTF has been relatively silent on this issue.
Perhaps smearing 12 and 2 year olds has something to do with it…
mui @ 17
That’s because Bush doesn’t really know who the Dalai Lama IS.
And, the fact that the Dalai Lama has more intelligence in his little finger than the entire Administration has in all of their brains put together.
Kathleen @ 13
I love the Dali Lama, so I urge you to note that Dali Lama is the real thing and he’s not put off by the profane, recognizing its closeness to the sacred.
The other night (really late night) Bob from HI reminded us of this poem:
“He drew a circle that shut me out –Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout; But love and I had the wit to win – We drew a circle that took him in!”
Some of todays events and comments inspired me to share it here, again.
Ellie Wiesel introducing Dali Lama “every person should be able to live their Religious and cultural life” “Dali Lama’s burning desire for Peace”
Wiesel ” For Those in Jerusalem Tibet is not far away” Hellow Mr. Wiesel Tibet is right next door in the form of the desires of the Palestinians sir the Palestinians do not want anything different than what the Dali Lama wants.
Dobson = Phony Christian
NickM @ 15
Thanks, Nick. It’s been fixed.
Just a heads up that Peterr was called away before his post went up but he wanted folks to know that he will try to get back later to answer any questions.
mui @ 19
You betcha that is what he has said, but he would very much like to go back to Tibet, you must know that.
OMG Rep. Boehner one of the least compassionate people on that stage giving another introduction for the Dali…well besides Bush
mui @ 23
I am obviously put off. I am a lowly peasant
demi @ 24
thank you! Makes me feel better (I’m feeling today like you were yesterday)
Oy Vey Mitch McConnell talking about the Dali Lama, the guy was just picking on Graeme Frost.
o.k. o.k. I know I have a long way to go.
Kathleen @ 31
LOL!
Kathleen @ 13
Yep – almost as absurd as the chatty staffer crouched behind Bush, His Holiness and Pelosi utterly oblivious to the CSpan camera memorializing her clueless grasp of protocol.
If only the Dali could rub off on some of these folks. Former President Jimmy Carter would have been the man to introduce the Dali
Kathleen @ 31
A little absurdity for sure.
Kathleen @ 28
It says a lot about us that you have the appearance of a major spiritual leader hijacked by a bunch of self-serving, deeply hypocritical hacks.
Rep. Boner.
HEE Hee Heee
That always cracks me up.
newtonusr @ 32
I forget what LOL means. Where is that FDL dictionary?
demi @ 24
Right here, Demi
Kathleen @ 34
Yeah but Dali Lama has magic. You should know Chinese friends of mine think so. The very act of sitting between Chimpy and Pelosi may have some effect.
Hugh @ 36
You’re right, that wasn’t lost on me either — or anyone watching from around the globe
Kathleen @ 31
I might point out that the profound karma about all of this is that those who have war-mongered the world over and who don’t want to take care of sick childen…are somehow forced to be in the presence of this man of peace, who has compassion for all living things; and to acknowledge the things in him that they don’t know they too possess but are not in touch with.
Perhaps real religious people are finally speaking up and out over the fundie’s who claim to be religious.
wonder if the Dali will bring up the Iraqi refugees? Wonder if he will have the nerve to bring up the Iraqi blood that most of the folks on that stage should be drowning in. He is too polite but I can wish.
Mui this is more than a “little” absurd
OT current Cushing spot price for crude oil is $88.50. The bubble continues though the dynamics indicate an overreach. Again this is all a pure speculative push.
LS @ 42
I’ll second that. Hopefully he will rub off on them just a bit
Kathleen @ 44
He doesn’t need to speak. He’s the Buddha of Compassion.
Here is the Dali Lama’s schedule
http://www.dalailama.com/page.60.htm
Kathleen @ 46
Nah. He’ll have dinner with Shooter and it’ll be for naught.
Kathleen @ 46
I read a book called The Jew in the Lotus and my recollection is that the author was profoundly touched by his experience with the Dalai Lama, as was the rest of the team that came to speak with him.
I can see the Dali Lama feels the Chimpster needs some xtra attention. He keeps leaning over like he’s talking to a child (but with tact).
Bush sure does look uncomfortable
mui @ 51
If Bush resists, then all that death he carries is weighing him down. He needs to open himself.
Kathleen @ 52
He thought he was going to the zoo when they told him he was going to meet the Dali Lama.
Hugh @ 36
It also says a lot about the compassionate and forgiving nature of the man who chooses to stand with “a bunch of self-serving, deeply hypocritical hacks.”
It is pretty funny to see him sitting “between” Bush and Pelosi! Heh.
Umm very interesting tri-handshake Pelosi, Bush Dali Lama.
A “loner” by both choice and expediency I am also a practicing atheist dedicated to both the separation of church and state and to the freedom of, and/or, from religion.
That said, I find no difficulty in joining with any and all practicing religionists who are advocating for the common weal of the children of the poor without prejudicial strictures of ANY SORT.
It is time to stop POLITICAL GAME PLAYING and to ACHIEVE advancement of the HUMANITY OF MAN FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY and not in the interest of ANY POLITICAL IDIOLOGY.
To that end, EVERY HONEST MEMBER OF BOTH HOUSES OF THE US CONGRESS IS MORALLY RESPONSIBLE TO VOTE TO OVERTURN THE BUSH VETO OF SCHIP. To do otherwise is to deny one’s own humanity, and can not be construed to be anything else!
Kathleen @ 52
Kathleen – did Bush look His Eminence in the eyes?
Could Bush’s new 24% approval LOW convince a handful of Republicans and the few Bush Dog Democrats to switch on SCHIP?
One can only hope.
twolf1 @ 54
!777
Maybe one day W will realize that he has done to Iraq what China has done to Tibet. Therein lies the lesson…of course he won’t…
http://www.dalailama.com/page.21.htm
This is the passage in this prayer that applies to Bush and Congresswoman Ros Lehtinen(who has done everything in her power to cause suffering for the Palestinian people) Wonder why the hell Bush mentioned her in his opening. She is about as far away as one can be from Buddhist values
“Those unrelentingly cruel ones, objects of compassion,
Maddened by delusion’s evils,
wantonly destroy themselves and others;
May they achieve the eye of wisdom,
knowing what must be done and undone,
And abide in the glory of friendship and love.”
Imagine what Bush would be saying if he had written his own speech
twolf1 @ 54
Funny
OK, this is a sick spectacle, Chimpy invoking Jefferson.
Time for more NFL channel.
mui @ 19
It’s Dalai Lama not Dali…
May all beings be happy and have the causes of happiness.
May all beings be free from sorrow and the causes of sorrow.
May they have that great happiness that is free from all sorrow.
May they come to rest in the Great Equanimity, free from attachment and aversion.
Toby Wollin @ 59
Sometimes contact with a Buddha produces a very strong sensation, not totally comfortable, around the third eye area, causing headache. Does Chimp look like he’s having a midol momemnt?
Did Bush’s head just do a 360?
How about something, you know, for the effort.
Dali
OT, New Froomkin up Bush: “I am relevant”
Most interesting point:
Baker asked if Bush should get tougher with Putin — and “what it would mean for Russian democracy if, when you leave power — assuming you do in January 2009 — (laughter) — that Vladimir Putin is still in power?”
My bold
Hugh @ 45
If it’s speculative push, are you saying the price on this will pop soon?
I sure hope so :-/
mui @ 67
He’ll probably chalk it up to the Jim Beam…
Kathleen @ 38:
Go to urban dictionary.com for definitions of FDL and netroots abbreviations and terms.
mui @ 68
My point. I do not have access to a visual on this – I cannot imagine even someone such as George Bush could not be effected. But I need someone who is actually looking at this to respond.
Brisingamen @ 68
I bet it doesn’t matter to him how his name get spelled. Just like it didn’t matter to the Buddah/Bohdisattva/Siddartha when the taliban blew up his statues.
Brisingamen @ 67
I don’t do spelling at such moments.
Pelosi looked as if she were looking for the best camera shot..sad
OT: Glenn Greenwald, who is live-blogging the Makasey confirmation hear, writes:
This prospective Attorney General of the United States sat there in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and asserted that: “We don’t torture …” And yet these senators contiue to listen to him.
In a sane world they’d throw his ass out of them, and slap that lying sack of shit with a perjury suit. By carrying on a civil discussion with someone who makes such visibly counterfactual assertions, these senators are endorsing and participating in this Bush hypocricy. Their behavior is simply obscene.
Anybody who can claim that we don’t torture after all of the evidence that has been presented (the photos from Abu Ghraib, the FBI agents’s memos from Guantanamo, the logs of the rendition flights, the testimony from the tortured, etc.) does not deserve to serve as dog catcher and deserves nothing but contempt from self-respecting Americans.
raven @ 76
You can say that again
mc @ 55
I agree with both of you.
It is really a matter of perspective … as His Holiness the Dalai Lama says, China claims to have invaded Tibet, but who has conquered who ? Since the invasion, China had embraced the tenets of Buddhist teachings, opening their markets, striving for prosperity, improving their infrastructure, … it seems as though Tibet has conquered China …
twolf1 @ 54
Yeah, he said “Wow! Who gets to name the llamas?”
“A message to others in the world who want to pursue peace, understanding and harmony”
Dalai Lama “my commitment to pursue a non-violent path” what a tough crowd to convince
raven @ 76
There was a really great moment in a recent movie, where someone asks Gandhi how he would respond if a vandal breaks one of his statues (in India).
Gandhi replies, I would encourage him to break it … having statues in tribute to me are useless when you ignore the principles I stood for.
Paying respect to principles is not the same thing as following those principles.
Destroy the statues and live those principles … we will have a better country !
dakine01 @ 71
My bold
Yeah – I noticed that one too.
I think what I heard was *nervous* laughter…
I really respect the Dali(a) but let’s not get all bubbly about Buddhism, it’s run by people and thereby is subject to all the stupid shit people do:
raven @ 70
Ah, Eternal Consciousness*g
Dalai Lama ” sadly some of us have passed, all of our final destinations” “prayer”
He hands it to Pelosi and not to Bush..oooh, that was a bit of a slap
DefendOurConstitution @ 60
They won’t. For whatever reason they’d rather go down with the Titantic(metaphorically speaking). I don’t get it either. Commander Codpiece is at Nixon approval numbers and yet the Rethuglican congresscritters can’t get enough of him.
Very good speech on China. On Dalai Lama’s part.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 90
They’re tied to him. He’s all they have got.
my bold
peanutbutter @ 72
Hard to say. It’s irrational. The spot price has outstripped the futures price. The futures price is now re-aligning as I write toward the spot price indicating that the speculative push has not run its course. Without this recent speculative spike (forget about the Turk-Kurd thing) but with the correction due to the falling price of the dollar, the price should be around $70-75. The difference represents big investors playing games.
raven @ 87
That is the “institutionalized” Zen version, which has nothing to do with the core of Zen. Tibetan is totally different.
Senator Byrd appeared so polite and humble in the Dalai Lama’s presence. He seems to be really listening
“He hands it to Pelosi and not to Bush..oooh, that was a bit of a slap”
That, or a wicked sense of humor. Or both.
LS @ 94
Gotcha. My point is,just like all “paths” this one can be diverted.
LS @ 94
Well there are problems within the Tibetan system. And Tawainese systems as well. Money, money. Not unlike monasterys of the past. It doesn’t lessen the importance of singular figures like the DL IMHO.
Dalai:
pronounced: dah-lay
raven @ 97
I couldn’t agree more.
mui @ 98
I totally agree!
I forget how many Tibetans were killed when China invaded
The death of a nation
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.u…..bishop.htm
newtonusr @ 92
But why? I always thought they’d put their re-election prospects ahead of everything else, especially a president this unpopular.
mui @ 98
In fact, it heightens their importance … in growing darkness, the light burns brighter …
He’s publicly gently, spanking Georgie.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 103
Well if they hold onto their base and Hillary is the Dem nominee …
The argument is fundamentalist Chicago School Milton Friedman rubbish: get rid of government and give it all to the private sector and everyone is in it for themselves. EVERYONE.
There’s no moral or ethical reason not to support this program when one considered how this nation spends it money.
We have weird priorities don’t we?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 103
I assume they don’t have an electoral deathwish, so they must feel they won’t pay a (high) price for voting to sustain the veto. So: how to inflict a price?
At least leave future generations a planet to live on…(paraphrased)
jayt @ 86
Sad thing is, I don’t think the press really gets it. They’ll have been accomplices.
” . . . address problems from one ness of humanity. ” (paraphrase)
How’s Chimpy looking? Is he having a midol moment? BWahahah
LS @ 105
Quotes?
SanderO @ 107
Why is Milton Friedman so revered? He’s just a crackpot.
you know it’s like think progress follows the lake and puts up something relevenet to whatever post you guys introduce
anyway, this up right now on think progress;
Solai @ 112
No, it was a quick hit. Environemnt, one ness of humanity etc.
Sorry for this drive-by (spending lunch time making calls to senators) – but wanted to make sure everyone heard the news that Cheney and Obama are 8th cousins…
http://www.clickondetroit.com/…..etail.html
On top of the religious leaders behind SCHIP – I just read a Paul Simon’s article supporting it on Huffington Post. He does a very good job of appealing to those who have previously voted against it to change their position. Time is running out – the House vote is tomorrow, and I’m glad people like him are stepping up.
He also spoke out on SCHIP and there’s video of it posted here too that’s also worth watching.
Solai @ 112
I didn’t catch the quotes, but there will be a transcript…he said that it is important to take this point in time to view the world from the perspective of the “oneness” of the inhabitants of the world; to promote peace and harmony amongst humanity and nations; and to do everything possible to take care of the planet..and ended by saying to at least leave future beings a planet to live on. He said other stuff, but I was doing something else and missed it.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 103
The Bush Family has not yet released them from their obligations for this election cycle.
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
Genocides in the 20th century
Senator Byrd really like like he was sincerely praying.
“love and compassion are beneficial for oneself and for others” “Lord fill us with love as we go our different ways” “love overcomes all else”
LS @ 118
Addressing the problem of economic equality, and recognizing that one problem in the world will have repercussions everywhere. *cough*
LS @ 105
He spanked him and then lovingly put his arm through his. Damn if some of his goodness could just rub off.
What is with that Chaplain. Why does he bring fear into this, if something should happen to the DL?
Kathleen @ 122
Wanna bet GWB43 thought the Dalai Lama was referring to China ?
DL is the cats meow. I love him.
Kathleen @ 122
You just never know. Where was Shooter? I guess there was too much “love” in the air for him to breath. Probably in his bunker cooking up more meanness.
mui @ 123
that was weird
mui @ 115
And he acknowleged Pelosi’s efforts in the peace and harmony realm and said nothing to Bush in this way at all.
In a bit of emptyheaded pap, David Stout in the NYT reports
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10…..ref=slogin
Actually this is not at all what Mukasey said. He said that we don’t torture and bailed on commenting on specific interrogation practices. In general, he was supportive of most of Bush’s excesses. Of course, the NYT will never let fact get in the way of fluff, which raises the question: Does the Times have any fact based reporters anymore?
Dee @ 116
I’ve also been told that some guy named Darwin said we’re all descended from apes.
Well, maybe he was just talking about the Chimp in Chief.
“breathe” sorry.
Elliott @ 127
I missed it. Was he referring to China doing something to DL?
Kathleen: Senator Byrd really like like he was sincerely praying.
I caught that too. He kept his eyes closed and said “Amen”, while the others were movin on the next thing.
I’ve always thought Byrd was the Real Deal.
Kathleen @ 128
Right. He thanked the Bush’s for their hospitality…he said something about democracy, but it was vague.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 103
This is where I’m quite certian the wiretapping has been put to use…
Hugh @ 129
Did they mention Bush’s definition of torture ?
Dee @ 116
8th cousins is a huge degree of separation. We are probably ALL 8th cousins of one another.
mc @ 21
I think that the actual organizations have been fairly mute on this in published literature.. since nobody likes to come off as being mean to kids (certainly if you’re supposed to be religious leader), so it’s mostly been by way of a whispering campaign. I think they’re concerned that their arguments are too abstract for even their own base to understand… they view this as a slippery slope issue (toward socialism, against abstinence, weakening faith-based groups)… what I’ve heard from them have been from fundie activists (like my peppy neighbors) I talk to on occasion and not from published sources
peanutbutter @ 137
I thought this was funny, not relevant.
LS @ 132
China and the Dalai Lamas of all incarnations have always had intrigues. This DL, rumor has it, has the big C. Although he looks good from what I saw. The DL is holding Tibetan factions together who *are not* on the same page with him, should he die (God forbid. Spit three times) in terms of autonomy and peaceful resolution. It is in the Mainlands best interest, and they knowit that DL stays alive.
Petrocelli @ 136
I am not sure that Bush has a meaningful definition of torture other than to say that he doesn’t do it whatever it is. Here is the quote used by Stout:
perris @ 114
I think we need to look at the relevance of what bush is saying here;
he is stamping his feet and sayimg “I AM PRESIDENT and you cannot do anything unless I say so”
he is a madman, he is proving he is king
I really think this man is clynically insane
Petrocelli @ 136
shrub’s gonna do what he’s gonna do. He’ll just expect his AG, whomever it is, to help him justify it. If Mukasey doesn’t play along, he can expect the usual midnight raid.
LS @ 134
I thought his message was clear. But it went to fast.
mui @ 140
I think shrub’s going about the DL visit thing in the right way, for the first time ever in his presidential foreign policy career. There, I said it. Can’t believe I said it, but I said it.
Hugh @ 141
Jon Stewart mentioned it … on Monday, I believe … Bush’s definition of torture means that which results in death or organ failure …
When asked about the relationship, Obama commented that Dick Cheney was “the black sheep of the family.”
Petrocelli @ 146
yup. And mutilation. He doesn’t believe that his torturers should be allowed to pull or hack off any limbs during their “interrogations”.. I’m sure there’s exceptions even to this :P
mui @ 19
Tibet belongs to the Tibetans.
But their diaspora was prophesied in the 13th Century by Padmasambhava — “When the iron birds flies and the horse runs on wheels, and the people of Tibet are scattered across the face of the Earth like ants — the Dharma will come to the land of the red man.”
The Dharma came to the land of the red man formally at Odiyan (Sonoma Co. CA) in ‘77, iirc.
So, of course, the Dalai Lama is going to meet with the leader of the erstwhile “land of the red man.”
AG Confirmation hearing back up on CSPAN3
CSPAN3
My 10/17 Pissy Presser followup question:
“Mr. President, you just stated that you ‘believe strongly in private medicine’ as the core basis of your veto of SCHIP. Does that mean that you will henceforth decline your own taxpayer-funded lifetime free medical care?”
Re: Obama and Darth are 8th cousins:
I wonder what Lynne Cheney’s motives were for revealing that in the teevee interview…
More to oppose.
http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/oppose_orr/
More crazies…why do they think they can get confirmed?
Biodun @ 152
is he trying to tell us that Obama might have a touch of evil in his blood?
BobbyG @ 151
Ha!
The entire Bush family fortune has been taxpayer-funded
Mukasey – Rights of “free speech are very much intact in this country”
i.e. Patriot Act and PAA act are okey-dokey – just like basic, everyday criminal law.
Great post, peterr – Bless you!
*g*
OT
but merde:
BobbyG @ 151
Hopefully he will get tax-payer funded Medical care in a Federal Prison.
Helen @ 150
and house floor back up on c-span1… but now debating a railway bill.
Brownback bitchin’ about a German judge who allowed Muslims there to determine that their law superseded German divorce law
relevance?
Holy shit – Brownback wants prison populations reduced? Didn’t he get the memo?
fwiw – Mukasey agreed.
BobbyG @ 151
Such an excellent question will never be asked.
Shumer up!
Judicial Independence, Goldsmith said in his book that the Admin pressured him to approve things he couldn’t approve. How do you feel about Goldsmith’s book?
A: Outstanding book.
kirk murphy @ 157
Eh, What’s up Doc ?!! *g*
This statement was put out by the rightwing media, Gore’s people have had them revise it.
Petrocelli @ 146
Mukasey I believe did reject the Bybee memo from which that language comes: “Physical pain amounting to torture must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.”
What Mukasey did do was reiterate that the US does not torture but refused to say whether specific practices like waterboarding, hypothermia, stress positions, etc. amounted to torture.
Goldsmith asks on p124, “Why don’t we just go to Congress and get it to sign off on the Detention program?”
Addington shot it down.
Q: Will you work with Congress on these items?
A: Yes
Q: What about tools that are outside of FISA?
A: Would always want to go to Congress whenever possible.
Shu calls Gonzo a potted plant!
Q: Is Unilateralism bad?
A: Yes
Q: If you are in Goldsmiths position, will you go along or come to Congress?
A: I will do whatever the Constitution guides me to do. My bias will be to bring issues to the Congress.
Hugh @ 164
Thanks Hugh for the clarification, I was sure that any Bush nominee would say exactly this …
will Leahy & Co. roll over ? (rhetorical)
Q: Will you review all of the OLC Opinions?
A: Yes
Q: If there isn’t enough legal justification in those memos will you change them?
A: Yes
Q: Will you make the changes Publicly?
A: If I can, I will, but I need to have the room to use discretion where appropriate.
Q: What did you think of Comey’s actions?
A: Outstanding.
Q: Will you have the courage to look squarely in the eyes of the President of the United States and tell him that you disagree with his policies?
A: Yes.
Q: If the Admin ignores your advice and goes ahead and does it anyway, what will you do?
A: Take appropriate action.
LS @ 126
Scooter was probably still getting spanked by his wife after the trial. She looked pissed and mean.
Of course, Mukasey did say that the President could act unilaterally sometimes without outlining when this would be. As for the OLC opinions, having Mukasey looking at them is not the same as having Congress look at them. What Mukasey could do is say, yep, nothing to see here, move along.
Q: What do you think of Executive Privilege being used to cover 3rd parties, like the Chairman of the New Mexico Rep Party calling the Admin and having his conversation covered under Executive Privilege?
A: I need to do more research on this issue.
Shu through.
Leahy encouraging Mukasey to come to he and Arlen any time he has questions.
new threadage
Cornyn up, rambling. Trying to conflate intelligence gathering ’suspicion’ with law enforcement ‘probable cause.’
Mukasey deflects.
Cornyn going after bloggers – says that the NYT published an article on Monday about an American blogger in NC who translates arabic site information and lists 100s of links to jihad sites. Are you okay with a Shield Law that protects them?
A: I have several concerns – what’s the definition of a journalist? do they deserve to be shielded, etc.
mui @ 123
that was weird
Toby Wollin @ 75
He did not seem to ever look in his eyes, although I did see the Dalai Lama try. GWB43 did seem to avoid direct eye contact. Was that a conscience showing itself or was Bush afraid he would turn to dust?
petro – goody!
dalai lama meets king of ReNamblacan torturers.
wonders who put the coat hanger in his third eye.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 180
Peace to all sentient beans.
Cliff Varnell @ 181
Oh sure… Let’s increase gov’t-funded coverage on additional 2 million children (which also includes 600,000 adults too) whose parents earn up to $83,000.00. Oh yeah, please don’t forget the sixty percent of children who have private coverage now, the ability to chose their health care providers as a result of, who will be crowded out by the those private providers saying, “heck, if the government wants to cover them, why should we?” Yeah, wonderful coverage that government medical care. These religious leaders just traded spiritual poverty for medical…!
Kathleen @ 13
And, Dubya standing beside the Dalai isn’t odd?
It’s the times we live in. What can a person do? Sigh…
Kathleen @ 52
It’s been years, yea decades, since he has been in the presence of an elder who might chastise him or direct him to do better.
Kathleen @ 95
Dubya’s cup is running over with bourbon.
Byrd’s cup is only half full of moonshine.
:-)
mui @ 47
I used to respect the Dalai Lama. No more. Anyone who would sit with the Butcher of Baghdad, Torturer in Chief and say nothing of the world’s greatest sponsor of State Terror cannot be respected.
I realize it may be political naivete. (But I’ve always heard he was rather sophisticated in the past). I don’t think his loving Karma will “rub off” on these murderous scumbags & war profiteers (incl. DiFi & Pelosi). Quite the reverse: when you lie down w/ dogs, you get fleas.
(Can anyone imagine Gandhi accepting an honorarium from say, Stalin, for standing up to the Brit. Empire? I think not. Bye-Bye Dali)
MarktheSpark @ 187
It is political naiviete. But I respect your opinion in a way. Perhaps you are expecting the Dalai Lama to think like you on issues of evil, personal culpability etc. etc.In my view,
the joke is on Chimpy. For the record, the Dalai Lama has spoken about Iraq.
Forgive me if someone has already mentioned it, but these same denominations also objected to the Iraq war from the beginning…and Bush didn’t both to meet with any of them. For guys who always wearing their religion on their sleeve, they sure forget about it quickly when it comes time to actually live it out.