I don't know what it will take to get the Democratic leadership to stand up to the arrogance, lying, and wholesale law-breaking of this deeply unpopular President and his worst-ever Administration.
It's bad enough that the Bush Administration and Republican leadership have misled Americans about SCHIP and how they helped their right wing propagandists smear and intimidate the families of children helped by this worthwhile program. But even that nastiness has been eclipsed by continuing revelations of the Administration's unlawful domestic spying and the willing since-pre-9/11 complicity of America's telecom companies.
Update: ACLU released a statement this a.m. calling on the House to vote against the current FISA Bill. See comment 75 for full text. From their statement:
Washington, DC – The American Civil Liberties Union today announced its opposition to the RESTORE Act, saying the bill gives the government the ability to spy upon Americans without an individual warrant. Since the bill does not require individual warrants before government agents seize material from Americans on American soil, it fails to be constitutional. . . .“The House bill is a disappointment and does not contain the protections that Americans must have in a democratic society,” said ACLU lobbyist’ Michelle Richardson. “If the rumors are true, the Senate bill, like the Protect America Act, appears to have been written by the administration and is designed to give the government all the power and destroy even minimal checks and balances,” she added.
On Monday, Verizon, one of the nation's largest telecom companies, acknowledged that in hundreds of instances since 2005, it gave the Bush Administration access to its customer's private communications without warrants required by the FISA, federal communications statutes and the US Constitution. Other major US companies are undoubtedly doing the same (except Qwest?) but simply haven't acknowledged it fully.
The FBI has used thousands of warrantless National Security Letters to require the companies to reveal records of telephone calls of suspected targets, the calls made by everyone the targets called, and the calls of everyone that second group called. The only reason the companies may have balked at disclosing the second or third circle of "friends" is because, they claim, they didn't compile records in that manner.
On Administration orders, the companies refuse to tell Congress the full extent of their cooperation or the nature of the surveillance programs they have been operating. As Kagro X and emptywheel have noted, we've now reached the absurd stage in which Bush/Cheney are effectively invoking the "State secrets" doctrine -- a doctrine created by courts to keep sensitive national security information from non-secure court proceedings -- to prevent Congress from knowing how the executive and private companies violated Congressional statutes.
What's it going to take, Congress? The regime's message to you is clear: you are not entitled to know what a lawless executive branch is doing nor allowed to know what telecom corporations are doing in violation of the law and their promises to maintain the privacy of their customers. Yet you are expected to pass legislation providing retroactive immunity from still unknown unlawful actions ordered by the government.
The Administration is now operating entirely outside the Constitution, while being cheered on by its rightwing supporters and with apparent Beltway acquiescence. And Congress has done nothing about it. So it is only slightly encouraging that Senators Leahy and Specter are claiming they will oppose retroactive immunity unless/until Congress is fully informed about the nature and extent of the surveillance programs and the companies' complicity. These promises ring hollow against reports that the Senate bill will likely include retroactive immunity, while the House version now moving to the floor [see Marcy's take at TNH] would allow so-called "basket" warrants instead of particularized, case-by-case warrants historically required under the Constitution's Fourth Amendment. House efforts to require particularized warrants have apparently failed, even though the Fourth Amendment is clear:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
For over two hundred years, this right has been one of the most hallowed and essential foundations of individual freedom, yet it is being systematically eviscerated by a lawless, irresponsible and untrustworthy regime and a compliant Congress. The Constitution is under assault from a far more serious threat to our liberties than any we face from terrorists or external enemies.
Wake up and do your jobs, Congress! Every Senator, every Representative, should demand that this President obey the law and uphold the Constitution. And no company or public official who violated the rights of Americans should be let off scot free or allowed to continue operating outside our Constitutional framework.
Please keep making those calls regarding FISA and SCHIP.
Rugby enthusiasts looseheadprop and emptywheel sent us the All Blacks Haka video. It's either a cheer to rally the Democrats and any remaining Constitutional Republicans to stand their ground on FISA restoration or a portent of how the American people will view them if they don't.
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Zed three days in s row
Caw, caw! Good morning, Scarecrow.
Rats. Missed again!
Fourth Amendment: R.I.P.
I’m all for sticking my tounge out at these dem dopes!
Great post, Scarecrow. Chicago Tribune this morning has an editorial about why the current law should be permanent. Says the Dems were “smart” to “fold” last summer. Totally supports immunity for Telcos. I’m gonna write a letter to the editor. Feh.
Morning egregious and Scarecrow.
Anyone else think these past few weeks have been one battle after another? When will others wake up and realize our sacred Constitution is in tatters? This Congress sucks!They should all be impeached for failing to uphold their oath of office.
Rich, Republican or Corporation-laws don’t apply to us.
Sigh.
Hey what about cheney & Barak being related? Pretty funny!
raven @ 5
Yeah, you have to wait to the end of the video to see that. We need an FDL Haka.
Good morning everyone. I think Jim Clausen is using an alarm clock. Appropriate.
The interesting or rather disturbing point in the telephone companies response is that when they say they “don’t keep their records like that” is that it means that every telephone number of every person involved in this chain is subject to scrutiny.
I think this explains the rationale of why some members of the administration balked when they discovered what was being done (Comey, Goldsmith, et al).
My fear is that this approach probably opened a huge portion of the U.S. population to review and when you consider that email via these telecoms was included as well the picture turns particularly surreal.
Tweedleahy and Specterdum? I trust those two old codgers to do the right thing about as much as I trust monkeys will fly out of my ass.
Leahy: the tough talking former prosecutor who won’t enforce his subpoenas.
Specter: the tough talking former prosecutor who voted to repeal habeas corpus.
Together they solve crimes by waggling their fingers and their jowls.
This is another con. I’m still calling to bitch at ‘em though.
scarecrow - it’s much worse than that. the fisa bill up for a vote, probably today (the “restore act”) also gives “absolute prospective immunity” (please see pow wow’s analysis of the bill reported out of the rules committee last night)
more background and links from our work in the comments, summarized in these three:
one
two
three
the really sad thing, imo, is that there is a far superior bill, written by members of the house intelligence committee (so they know what’s acutually required) that is stuck in committee - although it was submitted last monday, the same day as the seriously flawed restore act.
and the house leadership is rushing the “restore act” through before word has gotten out what they are doing.
What it will take is kicking some of the spineless Dems out of office. There is no way to get rid of all of them but it would do wonders to single out a few high profile ones. Lets let Nancy Pelosi and Steny Whore-ya know that we will do all we can to see that they are not reelected. Same for Reid even though he has 4 more years.I read somewhere the Cindy Sheehan is going to run against Pelosi.If true then lets all get behind her. We all know that she won’t take any shit off anybody.
i have to say, i have utterly no faith in the dems providing anything but a potemkin opposition.
they seem truly complicit in the dismantling of the government into an authoritarian regime, supposedly the counterweight but in reality nothing more than a bit of role-playing.
and i don’t quite understand why. yes, the campaign financing and loobying culture corrupts all it touches but the founding fathers relied upon the natural ambitions and power-seeking of all politicians to maintain that oversight. what is keeping the dems from feeling that? when were they spayed?
presumably some of those warrantless wiretaps have come up with material to keep the dems quiet. but could they all be so compromised?
Take a look at Gore’s latest numbers.
Scarecrow @ 9
The end, hell I went to youtube and watched about 10! Whale Rider had some great Haka in it.
i don’t know why there hasn’t been a big uproar about what’s happening in the House (this week and last) - and a ginormous lobbying effort in support of the holt bill. the only thing i can think of, is that there hasn’t been time for the blogosphere to get it together. (and hence the rushing through the restore act).
from the aclu, it sounds like there may be some serious (spoken or unspoken - not sure about that part) threats going on in the house - work to defeat the restore act and we’ll respond with an even worse bill from the senate.
after all, we’ve seen them do it before. but this time they don’t have the excuse of being rushed…
what do you all think? is it too late, or should we be lobbying for the holt bill?
sorry but everything that you wrote was totally overshadowed by that video. Are those players or cheerleaders? Is that commonplace in Rugby during a time out? If so, I should start watching.
AndrewOG @ 18
Although the use of a haka by the All Blacks has made one type of haka familiar, it has led to misconceptions. Haka[2] are not exclusively war dances, nor are they only performed by men. Some are performed by women, others by mixed groups, and some simple haka are performed by children. Haka are performed for various reasons: for amusement, as a hearty welcome to distinguished guests, or to acknowledge great achievements or occasions (McLean 1996:46-47). Various actions are employed in the course of a performance, including facial contortions such as showing the whites of the eyes and the poking out of the tongue, and a wide variety of vigorous body actions such as slapping the hands against the body and stamping of the feet. As well as chanted words, a variety of cries and grunts are used. Haka may be understood as a kind of symphony in which the different parts of the body represent many instruments. The hands, arms, legs, feet, voice, eyes, tongue and the body as a whole combine to express courage, annoyance, joy or other feelings relevant to the purpose of the occasion.
Haka are sometimes popularly thought of solely as war dances, but individual haka have different purposes, not all related to war. War haka, which had their own term, ‘peruperu’ were originally performed by warriors before a battle, proclaiming their strength and prowess in order to intimidate the opposition. Today, haka constitute an integral part of formal or official welcome ceremonies for distinguished visitors or foreign dignitaries, serving to impart a sense of the importance of the occasion.
Haka Wiki
selise @ 12
It’s becoming almost impossible to sort this out. This is where you’d like to be able to trust the Committee chairs and the leadership, but we can’t. The lack of uproar is partly a function of the complexity — no one can really tell/explain what’s happening — and partly because of the secrecy and lack of time to sort it out. And there is no reason for this.
My position from a month ago is that until proven otherwise, the best option is to let the awful statute expire in February and do nothing, at least until 2009.
at this point i’d like to see the democratic leadership stop with their own arrogance, lying and complicity in making the administration’s lawbreaking legal.
that would be a good first step.
AndrewOG @ 18
If the rugby fans are here, they’ll explain. It’s apparently a war chant by the players, just prior to the game’s start, to frighten the opposition and get the adrenalin going.
Sad times in America when the public is no longer shocked by the over-reaches of this adm. and has been lulled into accepting whatever it takes to “keep us safe”
raven beat me to it. I prefer to think of haka as a “dance of disgust and defiance,” performed immediately before a veto override and/or impeachment resolution.
Good morning scarecrow & all. I saw that Frontline last night and all I can say is that any congress person who can ever side with Bush again means the administration has something big time on them.
ccmask @ 25
I missed that, while writing this. We’ll come back to Frontline. When is the repeat?
klevenstein @ 15
Nice, but other than fighting for the environment, Gore won’t be riding a white horse to the rescue. He’s taken himself out for 2008.
Scarecrow @ 22
Although, it can’t be that warlike, since I did not see any “eye popping” or “sticking out of tongues” which I think is more of the sort of thing that you see in war chants.
Of course, with Maoris, the full-facial tattoos were a real addition in terms of “making an impression” on the enemy.
The Democrats are too caught up in the miasma of corruption, power and greed in Washington to stop the Bush lawlessness. Why bite the hand that feeds you?
Diane @ 23
Any country that practices torture is not deserving of protection but in need of liberation.
Pelosi says she doesn’t know of any impeachable offenses, and if anyone out here does, she wishes they would tell her what they are………..jeebus.
the bigger problem seems to me to be that the public has bought into the beltway prescription for bush fatigue: give him what he wants, then after he goes, we’ll fix everything.
except it’s not going to work that way.
the rabid right is not going away; the entrenched republican minority to come will be as obstructionist as possible; the layers of the supposedly nonpartisan civil service have been peppered with political appointees; the judiciary, of course, has been bent for the generation going forward.
whatever gets rolled back will be small comfort indeed compared to the damage done.
Online chat 11:00 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....02229.html
i was going to mention the frontline documentary. it was great, and potent in its tightness, but broke, i think, no new ground. it leaned heavily on the wapost series in the summer about cheney’s influence on the administration.
is it me, or did anyone else feel like, great, another recitation of the crimes against the constitution and the nation. throw it on the stack that’s gathering dust in the corner.
Via @ 31
Then in which case, I’d advise her to pick up the phone and call Rep. Maurice Hinchey - I heard him speak in August and he said that in his opinion, Bush and Cheney were the most impeachable administration he had ever seen.
Nancy - what will you require? Bush and Cheney lied to the American People - on a daily basis. They have subverted the Constitution. They have trashed the objectivity of the Department of Justice.
What else are you waiting for?
What’s disgusting to me is how many people are still on the fence, or unwilling to do the ethical and morally correct thing. As I noted yesterday, I called Senator Feinstein, only to be told by the staffer that she hadn’t yet articulated a position on the matter. I told him that was rather disingenuous and disappointing, considering the topic had been in the news for months, and the current legislation had been up for discussion since last week.
Of course, all I got was the usual song and dance. Maybe we need to send them all a copy of “The Lives of Others“…
ccmask @ 25
ccmask is right, how can anyone trust these people?
Is this a horse out of the barn thing? Is it too late to reel in the spying?
and Scarecrow, get your replay right here
and good morning, not that there’s anything good about it… grrumpfh
Watching the haka is a bit of solace after the All Blacks’ shocking loss in the World cup. When living across the fence from the intermediate school in our central NZ town, I could hear the kids beginning some of the mornings with a school wide haka. It is an awesome sound and transforms skinny kids into humans feeling their own power.
This youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....o&NR=1 - gives a partial sense of the haka, in that it is pulling up the power from our ancestors in the ground to help us reach for the sun. While it is a commercial, it also is inspiring. Nothing is impossible.
Scarecrow @ 26
It can be seen online, and the schedule is posted there:
Frontline
dmg @ 32
Fix? I would love to see a Dem President with unlimited power for a while. Wouldn’t that be fun? You can be sure that after the Dems sweep ‘08, the *Republicans* will immediately begin the effort to repeal all the powers they’ve given to this President and administration. Unless the elctorate gives the House & Senate vetoless majorities, they’ll succeed.
dmg @ 34
yes, I agree with your take
Maybe we should have buttons printed for the Dems which read: We are all Good Germans now
Bush doing presser today at 10:45…think there’s any warrantless wiretapping being done in that fancy new pressroom?
Think any of the lapdogs will act like, you know, real journalists?
what the hell does that mean, “refused under of the president”?
the president gets his power FROM congress, NOT the other way around!
see what happens SINCE they didn’t throw meyers butt in JAIL?
they have opened the floodgales, now EVERYONE will dEFY congress becuase the bar has been raised
i want these companies butts HAULED into jail UNTIL they testify UNDER OATH AND BEFORE CONGRESS
Elliott @ 41
I’m sure Conyers and Leahy will each write a stern letter of rebuke.
because they have learned nothing, a federal shield law for reporters.
I have this awful, sinking feeling that Jeb is soon going to come galloping up like Saint George ready to slay the dragon. Things can get a lot worse, quickly.
Scarecrow @ 20
i like “do nothing”. but that’s not going to happen.
i don’t know if there really is a problem with the fisa law that needs to be changed…. but since we can’t know that, i think we have to act as though it might be true.
other than that, we can find out what’s going on. here’s my short summary:
1) there is a bill that is not bad and addresses the so-called problem. it is the holt bill.
2) last monday both the holt bill and the “restore act” were submitted to the house floor.
3) on last wednesday there were rushed judiciary and intelligence committee markup hearings for the restore act (scheduled only the previous afternoon).
4) on last thursday i got a copy of the holt bill and posted it. pow wow analyzed it for us and compared it to the restore act (i forget which day that was)
5) last night, the house rules committee met and reported out an amended “restore act” and rule. pow wow has already given us his analysis (loop holes, basket warrants and prospective immunity).
today the house will probably vote on the “restore act”.
we can not trust our dem leadership, so it is up to us to provide that oversight - just as we expect them to provide oversight of the administration.
If there is a method to the Dems leadership madness they better start explaining it, because a lot of people are unhappy about what they are doing are talking about not voting in ‘08.
It seems to me like they feel if they can align themselves closely with Republicans they can win over some Republican voters much to the detriment of progressives.
Apropos of keeping up with those letters and faxes to the Congresscritters, can someone give me the count of the Bushdogs still not convinced to change their votes? and their names. I am readying a blast, and want it to go to the right target.
Love that haka!
Brings to mind and excellent movie called “Once were warriors”. I highly recommend to those of you who havent seen it.
As for the Dems - I can only hope they muster a fraction of that energy for a fight - any fight.
It got me all pumped up though, want to add that to the a.m. routine.
i’ve really held off assessing the dems’ performance, because the senate is hardly solid and the house remains a minefield. but honestly, what a disappointment. does anyone doubt that had they jumped to it in january, or february, or march, or april, that a house judiciary committee couldn’t have had impeachment hearings ready for september, and that we wouldn’t be in the middle of testimony right now?
at the very least, it would have provided a check on the administration. and reminded everyone in washington and the nation just HOW checks and balances are supposed to work.
i remember being disappointed by rep. jerome nadler, one of the good guys, when he was on fdl, when he said it isn’t politically practical; there isn’t enough time. what hooey.
the other argument against impeachment was there was a large agenda of stuff that this would distract from. could someone tell me exactly WHAT has gotten passed that impeachment would otherwise distract from? perhaps the FISA extension?
FISA calls, selected members of Intelligence [h/t PW]
*Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), Chairman — (202) 224-6472 FAX: (202) 224-7665
*Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) — (202) 224-3841 FAX: (202) 228-3954
*Sen. John Warner (R-VA) — (202) 224-2023 FAX: 202) 224-6295
*Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) — (202) 224-5244 FAX: N/A
*Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) — (202) 224-4224 FAX: (202) 224-5213
*Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN) — (202) 224-5623 FAX: (202) 228-1377
*Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) — (202) 224-4654 FAX: N/A
*Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) — (202) 224-5344 FAX: (202) 224-1946
*Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) — (202) 224-5274 FAX: 202-228-2183
if I may;
the president is NOT the boss of congress, congress is the boss of HIM
the “PRESIDENT” was an AFTER THOUGHT and a figure head
now congress had BETTER reclaim the power OF THE PEOPLE and keep this IDIOT from doing more harm then he has done to this government
grouch potato @ 51
Also, check out Utu
my question is still unanswered. anyone here have an opinion?
the House will probably be voting on the “restore act” today.
do we ask our reps to vote for or against?
United States of America - R.I.P.
1776 - 2000
Since we’ve completely abandoned the Constitution and anything even remotely resembling the ideals of this nation’s founders, shouldn’t we make them come up with a new name for the country. I mean it’s clearly not the same country anymore.
On a less cynical note. I’ve changed my mind about Al Gore. I think he SHOULD get into the race for president. I’ve been re-considering my opinion on that thanks to some audio Thom Hartmann ran on his show recently.
Gore seems to be right-on nearly every issue (a drastic departure from his 2000 campaign, I might add). And he seems to be the only “consensus candidate” on the Democratic side. Hillary is incredibly divisive and even the other candidates don’t seem to elicit the broad enthusiasm that Gore seems to.
I’m still a little concerned that his droning voice, slight southern accent and apparent lisp will hurt his appeal in some segments of the population — but to be fair, those are segments he might not have much appeal with under any circumstances.
So the bottom line is, “I’m in! Let’s draft Gore.”
Adam Schiff is just up on CSPAN on FISA
well, a little light from a republican (glemaed from think progress up right now);
but spector alwsys caves doesn’t he.
the democrats need to draft spector, we can surely deal with him and we surely must
Alecia @ 49
There are people filling positions, but there appears to be a complete lack of leadership. These non charismatic place holders seem determined to facilitate the return to power of the Republics. It is depressing.
perris @ 54
Good luck with that. Look who he just
appointed to head the Family Planning office: http://crooksandliars.com/
Ruffian @ 8
If you count 7th cousins, we’re all related.
i remain convinced that a draft gore movement is NOT a waste of time. i’m not up on the rules governing the convention, and assume the bar for a true draft is quite high.
but i also feel like howard dean might work with gore forces to allow a draft, and yes, i do think that whatever her strengths are, hillary clinton is the single best galvanizing element the republicans have to deny the dems the white house.
at the same time, i also have the feeling i’m skating on the edge of fantasy here.
Kathryn in MA @ 62
you are my cousing katherin?
*does a happy dance*
selise @ 56
ACLU has just issued a statement asking the House to oppose its FISA bill. I’ll add an update.
dmg @ 63
I predict another Gore vs Bush. Jeb Bush.
Via @ 66
Gore vs. Bush/Cheney/Dibold
Katymine’s tollfree numbers for Congress:
1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 459 - 1887
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437
Badwater,
plus Alito and Roberts.
Via @ 66
gore has one of three choices…just three;
1) coach clinton on what needs to be done and make sure she does it
b) run
3) allow our country and consitution to fall against this silent coup
Via @ 69
So true.
OT CNN reporting “Developing Story” that Little Boots holding a presser at 10:45 AM EDT today.
Perris@54.
Thanks for the bad news. The news is bad, the position does not require Senate confirmation. The goodish news she is named in an acting capacity.
Probably means that this is the bottom of the barrel and the slightly higher bottom feeders all opted out. Sinking ship, rats do not apply.
Sorry for the mixed metaphor–at least rats and bottom feeds are both nonhuman species.
dakine01 @ 72
do they have his phonetic notes?
From the ACLU this a.m.
Washington, DC – The American Civil Liberties Union today announced its opposition to the RESTORE Act, saying the bill gives the government the ability to spy upon Americans without an individual warrant. Since the bill does not require individual warrants before government agents seize material from Americans on American soil, it fails to be constitutional.
“The RESTORE Act does not live up to its name - it does not restore the Constitution,” said Director of the Washington Office Caroline Fredrickson. “When Americans are sitting in their living rooms making a phone call or sending an email, they should be able to rest assured that the government is not monitoring their phone call or collecting that email without just cause or an individual warrant.” Fredrickson added, “The RESTORE Act includes broad year-long basket warrants that require only minimum court oversight to collect the maximum amount of information. Basket warrants, by definition, are not warrants at all. They do not give Americans protections that the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Fourth Amendment. The colonists rose up against King George for the same type of government overreaching.”
The ACLU is also likely to oppose the Senate bill, which is reportedly worse on civil liberties issues. The Senate bill is likely to capitulate even more to Administration requests for broad new authority to spy on Americans.
“We thought the House Leadership meant what they said in August when they promised to put real civil liberties protections into the new legislation,” said ACLU Senior Legislative Counsel Timothy Sparapani. He added that the Senate should not be letting the telecom companies be allowed to be exempt from laws. “If the rumors about the Senate bill are true, it’s a sweet deal for companies that broke the law. Why follow the law when you can just re-write the rule-book?” said Sparapani.
“The House bill is a disappointment and does not contain the protections that Americans must have in a democratic society,” said ACLU lobbyist’ Michelle Richardson. “If the rumors are true, the Senate bill, like the Protect America Act, appears to have been written by the administration and is designed to give the government all the power and destroy even minimal checks and balances,” she added.
dakine01 @ 72
My dream is from, I think, 5 Easy Pieces, the cheezburger scene with Jack Nicholson. I’d like to see one of the Press Corpse hand Commander Codpiece his press pass and say: “Press this between your knees.”
Every reason you have listed for FISA change is correct. What i would like to know is why we are having to push the Democratics so hard.
My conclusion relates to the revelation of the phone tapping occuring prior to Sept 11. Congress believes(?) that their conversations may well have been overheard, and since the members can’t remember exactly what they said, better safe than sorry; better to support bush, than be exposed for something you said.
And just to add a little more wood to the fire, what has happen to fix the electronic voting machines. I think there is the possibility that we will get the votes and lose the election.
Food for thought, Bb
Thanks for the link Raven.
Via @ 31
?!?!
Scarecrow @ 65
i posted yesterday that the aclu was going to come out with a statement against the restore act… but that there was some worry because the house leadership would be pissed and just go with the senate bill.
i think there is a real risk of going this route - unless we are prepared to mount a serious effort in support of holt’s bill. i didn’t post my position at first, because 1) i was hoping i wasn’t the only one with an opinion and 2) with a committment to lobby for the holt bill, i’m not sure that asking for the restore act to be defeated is wise.
so, i’m asking for a conversation on this… we don’t seem to have any kind of consensus on what’s happening or what we should do about it.
Via @ 76
you made me chucle a bit for the following image;
I can see someone sneaking in a differant set of notes and the president reciting them becauase he thought his pupet masters changed their angle of attack
really, I can actually see that happening and him falling for it
perris @ 74
“Hell-oh, Eye vizited tha Dolly Llama. Hee wuz vary nice.”
Kathryn in MA @ 79
now if that’s not a person asking to be thrown in the water I don’t know what is
if that line is true then she is asking for the barrage so she can finally change hre mind
I think we need to oblige
twolf1 @ 82
do you think his notes read;
“new QUE lar”?
I can’t figure out Congress either. IMO, it’s their phone calls that are being monitored. Even the repubs. So, why would they not shut this down. Tight.
perris @ 83
Hugh made a list
perris @ 64
***smooches my cousin***
Elliott @ 86
let the barrage begin then
/me thinks this would make a nice roots project
Via to Congress:
We can all be either Good Germans or Good Americans, but we can no longer be both.
Still asking for names of Dem Congressmembers set to vote no to over ride.
Help please.
BTW,
I am unable to access SCHIP campaign leader Americansunitedforchange’s website.
Anyone else run into trouble?
The Prince of Blackwater is quoted in the Moonie Times - of course it’s all the Democrats fault.
http://washingtontimes.com/app.....70057/1003
Via @ 89
that’s excellant, I would change “germans” to “fascists” though
that would be more accurate, less insulting to the germans and more effective
perris @ 92
I agree!
Selise — I suspect ACLU is looking beyond today’s bill and preparing people to oppose the final RESTORE effort. Even if one could swallow the current House bill, a motion to recommit is a danger, and the Senate bill seems likely to be worse, and no one has much confidence in what would happen in the conference committee. If there were a worthwhile bill, it would be vetoed, and what then? That’s partly why I think doing nothing is better than trying to fix this under this regime and this Congress. Too many opportunities to make things worse.
raven @ 16
Yes, I agree, wasn’t that haka performed by kids most excellent? Moves me every time I watch it (although I must admit that is one of my favorite movies, makes me cry whenever I watch it).
The other component that’s missing from the All Black’s haka is the use of tattooing and fearsome facial expression — but this is a welcoming haka for a sports event and not a tribal war haka. Although the tongue stuck out is still a universal gesture of disdain and used to intimidate; I note at least one of the team (likely a person of Maori heritage) does stick his tongue out.
perris @ 88
I sent it to her
Contact for the Speaker of the House
here’s a very intereestin thought;
the term “fascism” began as an economic principle that rejected any social program, it didn’t begin as a word to describe what it seems to mean today
the president may well have begun the same degradation of the term “democracy”
Democrats to call on SCHIP:
Bob Etheridge (NC-02) (202) 225-4531 Fax: (202) 225-5662
Jim Marshall (GA-08) (202) 225-6531 Fax: (202) 225-3013
Gene Taylor (MS-04) (202) 225-5772 Fax: (202) 225-7074
dmg @ 32 and 34:
You’ve pretty well summed up my perceptions.
I wonder if it is possible the current congress does not want to pick up the gauntlet on all of the constitutional over-reaching of the adminstration because of the stacked Supreme Court. Court rulings in favor of the adminstration’s unitary executive crap would leave no recourse other than constitutional amendment or revolution.
Elliott @ 96
I am going to reword a few of my favorites and send it to her as well
I think we should pick a few and make them our own before we send
I am sure hugh would applaud that use of his list
/me sets out to pick a few and re frame with my signature terminology
From Christy’s Monday post:
Ok, North Carolina pups, let’s get those faxes and calls going!
24%?! Herpes polls better than that!
selise @ 56
Against!
My understanding is that the FISA law passed this August expires in December…and then the law would revert to the “flawed” original FISA law that was in effect then. Of course many say that the flaw could be corrected by the Government simply appealing the original judges decision and defending it adequately.
There really isn’t any need for changes to the law if that’s true…and even if there were a narrowly structured Amendment to the current law specific to the issue could be passed.
Rayne @ 95
More Wiki on Maori culture and or heritage.Prior to 1974 ancestry determined the legal definition of “a Māori person”. For example, bloodlines determined whether a person should enrol on the Māori or general (European) electoral roll; in 1947 the authorities determined that one man, 5/8ths Māori, had improperly voted in the European seat of Raglan.[8] The Māori Affairs Amendment Act 1974 changed the definition to one of cultural self-identification, which technically means that a person with no Māori ancestry can enroll and vote in a Māori electorate. Cultural self-identification is now the usual way of defining who is and is not Māori. Where money (for example scholarships or Waitangi Tribunal settlements) becomes involved, the relevant authorities generally require some demonstration of ancestry and/or cultural connection, but no minimum “blood” requirement exists.[
Scarecrow @ 94
do you think that asking our congressmembers to block any fisa bill is a better approach than asking for support for the holt bill? don’t you think if there is no bill, the Rs (with some help from Ds) will submit their own?
could you expand a bit on your thinking?
thank you for starting the conversation.
p.s. i’m not objecting to your position - if it is that we should be calling our reps and asking them to block everything - but that’s not what’s in your post.
I’m in NC & though not in his district, I spoke with Etheridge’s staff a moment ago. Staff claims they do not know how he plans to vote.
Scarecrow @ 94
This is my take too, Scarecrow.
The D leadership (Hoyer and Reid mostly) wants some of the same benefits in 2009 and beyond that the Rs have had for almost 12 years.
BTW, I believe Hoyer is the Speaker-in-Charge. Pelosi is just a front.
Bb @ 77
Or maybe they’ve been told that they will be portrayed as “associates of terrorists” because their name shows up on the list of numbers called by someone that someone who was called by an associate of a terrorist called. Guilt by the “6 degrees of Kevin Bacon” method.
kdh22 @ 107
that doesn’t make sense on fisa - it was sheparded through by conyers and reyes. and it doesn’t explain speaker pelosi lying about the “restore act” and it doesn’t explain the story i got when i called her office.
Here’s an article and video that give a taste of The Shock Doctrine.
I’m just through the 1st chapter of the book, and it’s an excellent analysis of the way Milton Friedman’s ideas are being tested in the “real-world laboratory”.
Diane @ 106
All the more reason for NC firepups to call. Thanks Diane!
Sorry, OT
Gore’s out, but last night Colbert made it official:
“After nearly 15 minutes of soul-searching, I have heard the call,” said Colbert.
raven @ 104
We could all be Maori, right?
Guess we better get started on that FireDogLake haka…
Here, for the fun of it, check out this site on Maori haka and sports — scroll down and watch the 1979 one. What a hoot. And then tell me there isn’t something more required to be Maori than choice.
ok, this is important!;
I TOLD you the administration is STEALING and that is why they don’t want to get appproval for their spying on us..
stealing is the ONLY reason they refuse to have their activity documented and approved, there is NO other reason
and now this ( raw story
I can’t get the link to load and I can’t wait till I read the story but there it is plain and simple
he does’t want to get a warrant becauese a warrant will prevent him from aquiring intelectual property of others
I think everyone - the public And the Congress are dazed and confused. Deer in headlights.
We shouldn’t be surprised about the leadership not caring about American children not having health coverage. Look at how many Iraqi children we’ve killed.
It’s unfathomable to think about what the administration Has on congressional leaders to keep them in line. Bush and Cheney have broken many legal and moral laws and continue to do so without being held responsible.
Just look at Larry Craig’s plausible (?) denials of his accusations.
It’s all too insane.
selise @ 109
Conyers and Reyes can only go so far, then they have to deal with Pelosi/Hoyer. What story did Pelosi’s office give you? Sorry if you’ve already told it. Is it in the above comments?
Rayne @ 113
Oh, ouch..those guys are just so…..sad.
About as much connection with that as white kids dancing against black kids in the 1950s. Reminded me of that scene from “Hitch” when Will Smith’s character tells Kevin James’ character about his dancing.
Toby Wollin @ 28
I spent all morning looking into this. There’s a bunch of youtube the team doing few different dance/chants. Some of them end with the players doing a throat-slitting motion. Which is awesome in my opinion, and very intimidating.
looseheadprop has a new thread ready.
kdh22 @ 116
it’s not what conyers and reyes haven’t done. it’s what they HAVE DONE. they have rushed to push a flawed bill through, while holding a pretty decent bill hostage in their committees. and they won’t explain why… other than what i was told by the HJC aide, which was that conyers pushed the “restore act” because it was his own bill, and sorry he didn’t know more than that.
as for the pelosi story - yes, you can find it by following the links (it’s this one).
sorry to only give you links today, but i’ve repeated this stuff so often and in so many threads - i think it’s time i respect the folks who don’t find this important or interesting.
AndrewOG @ 118
Yep - I saw that one also.
I sent a couple of those links to friends with the note: watch this - you will NOT need coffee this morning!
Actually, since I’m at work, I did not have the sound on - it doesn’t make any difference - amazing stuff.
selise @ 48
Since all the reasons we’ve been given have turned out to be false, both in August and for this round, I’m afraid my default position has become to act as though it’s not true until given some credible evidence otherwise.
The administration has lied repeatedly, and it appears that our leadership are either getting stampeded by bogus scary stories (attack on the Capitol, FISA kept us from rescuing kidnapped soldiers) or are unable to escape the mindset of “if we deny them anything, we’ll look weak/get blamed.”
Remember, the process for this revision was started because they said they heard our outrage from August and were going to “fix” it. If they do anything but that without giving us an actual reason (that checks out), then they don’t deserve the benefit of a doubt.
Rayne @ 113
that video is just wow. wow.
Redshift @ 122
yeah, i’m not actually convinced that there is a problem. it’s just that it is possible to fix the problem they claim to have without fucking things up.
so i’m ok with the “fix” so long as it doesn’t include the fucking up too.
Scarecrow @ 94
If he vetoes the bill, it will leave the current mess in place. With luck, we get expiration.
i guess i’m bummed ‘cuz i think we’re being played by the dem leadership in the house again. and we’re not seeing through it and we’re not fighting back.
masaccio @ 125
Or more likely, we get another effort, even worse, to “fix” the current statute. The problem is leadership, and we can’t trust ours right now.
perris @ 97
Really? I thought that Mussolini and Hitler both advocated a whole slew of “social programs” as long as they were only provided to those in service to the State (as defined by ethnic or ideological grounds). Thus, those who were members of the Nationalistic Party organizations would receive socialized health, educational, travel, food and housing support and preferences. Those who weren’t dropped to the bottom of the list. there was a good reason that Naziism was called “National Socialism”…the State restricted the social benefits to those who served the State (which by definition was the Party). Italian fascism was, at least on the streets, derived from an unusual type of syndicalism..National Syndicalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_syndicalism
But the weird thing was that these early fascists also built their ideology on the premise that the idea of that “distinctions” were social constructs (later brought into post-modernism by Paul De Man) and thus the distinction between individuals and the people (meaning the State or Nation as defined ethnically) were artificial.
If you want to have your head explode read a little of Giovanni Gentile, the Fascist Philosopher that was the ghostwriter of Benito Musslini’s “Doctrine of Fascism”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile
They argued that liberal ideas like the SEPARATION of the individual, in fact arguing that there could really be an opposition of interest that would require a SEPARATION of political powers, or distinctions between religion and state, or party and state, or business and state were actually impediments to the TRUE merging of of individual and state. Thus, those who actually worked for liberal principles such as Constitutional protections for individual freedoms, or free-and-open markets, or distinctions between labor unions and management and the government…were enemies of the people. They had to be elements of some external (national or ethnic) group that wanted to prevent the attainment of the ideal state that dissolved class and regional distinctions of the “nation”.
A lot of folks have pointed out that the major distinction between Marxism and Fascism was this delineation of just who was bounded by the merging of the citizen and the State. Marxism was an internationalist program, at least at the outset, while Fascism was restricted to national identities.
Wake up and do your jobs, Congress!
That’s telling ‘em!
So, are you actually going to VOTE for any of these bastards?
i live called and left my representative (pelosi) a message expressing my confusion about the irony that she has taken impeachment for crimes against the constitution “off the table” while putting on the table the idea of retroactive immunity for aiding and abetting some of these very crimes. disgraceful
If I’m following all this correctly, Congress is determined to do something with FISA. If we don’t pay attention, we will not wake up and find the original FISA in place by default, we will find something even worse. The Protect America Act is already worse, and someone seems determined that all the worst provisions of that Act will be set in stone as soon as possible. I can’t figure out who someone is, because the Dems are caving like sandcastles.
It may be a waste of effort, but I have faxed my two cents to my Representative, in case there is really a vote today, and I am preparing something for my Senators. I send faxes to make sure I don’t miss any points, and so I don’t get garbled in a conversation. Sometimes I loose my temper and speak rudely; it’s best I write.
My Representative is Roscoe Bartlett, who is awful on SCHIP and proud of it, but who may be a little better on Constitutional issues. He did vote against the Military Commissions Act, for which I give him credit.
At least Bartlett is a known quantity - reliably conservative and cheap. I used to think Barbara Mikulski was also reliable in a good way, but lately, I don’t know what has happened. I’ll keep sending her faxes anyhow. Cardin is new, and has disappointed lately, but I’ll keep him on my fax list.
By the way, I learned from here at FDL to contact the DC and local offices of my reps. Mikulski’s fax numbers (listed as N/A at comment 53 above) are: DC - 202-224-8858 and Baltimore - 410-962-4760.
The video is awesome, Scarecrow!
Actually I was envisioning the American people showing up in Congress to face them all down.
We’ve been haka loogies for a while now. Time for expectorating.
pitooey.
I keep sending faxes, emails, and postcards to my reps telling them NO IMMUNITY! But I don’t expect much to come from it. My senators are Loogie, er, I mean LUGAR, and that mealy-mouthed buttface Bayh. My Rep? HAH! Loser Rep Buyer. The senate was pre-cocked and ready to thrown immunity to the Telcos before any bill ever came up! They can’t wait to give immunity (Bayh, afterall, has received close to $200,000 from telcos so there is NO WAY he will act in the People’s best interest instead of the telco’s best interests). The House? Bah! Pelosi’s promise is hollow and so full of wiggle room that it is useless. She will cave. Bet on it.
Rather than let the only branch of government specifically designed to handle this sort of issue (the JUDICIARY) do its job, Pelosi and Reid will jump right in to make sure that they don’t get to handle Jack Squat. Rule of Law. Period. No immunity for ANY reason. The Telcos are either protected by current law AND have not violated the Constitution or they are not. That is for courts to decide, not criminals on the take in D.C.
Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution forbids ex post facto (retrospective law). Congress will pass the ex post facto law anyway, granting immunity from prosecution for Telecom wiretapping, because the Dems are still spineless, and after all, their corporate income would suffer if they didn’t cave.
It’s laughable anyway. Who would indict or prosecute any person or company wrapped in the flag and the “War on Terror?” Granted, civil suits would die on the vine until a court rules that portion of the law unconstitutional.
Redshift @ 122
Nah. Can’t trust a single politico on this at all. Best to get rid of FISA and the FISA court altogether and simply let the COURTS handle warrants, etc. You know, they way they are fully capable of doing with organized crime and whatnot. Funny how they aren’t bleeding information all over the place for those types of cases but they can’t be trusted not to leak all over the place on bullshit secret squirrel nonsense.
Either “fix” FISA so that there is NO spying on Americans under ANY circumstances without warrants based on probable cause (the way the Constitution CLEARLY requires) or dump it entirely and go with the normal courts the way we do with EVERYTHING else (the way the Constitution clearly intended).
Hi Guys,
Couple questions from a conservative:
1) Why do many of you continue to vote for these representatives that continue to fail in the issues that are near and dear to you?
I have not voted for Repubs in the past which in turn has removed them from office. They don’t deserve to be there if they are not doing ‘the people’s will’.
2) I constantly see on many of these sites the “lawlessness” of Bush’s actions. What has Bush specifically done that is against the law?
I am not trying to be confrontational here, I want to know how those of you who have said this come to this conclusion.
Kurt - Smile, Life is short -
Bushie @ 134
IANAL but that ex post facto restriction only applies one way: you cannot retroactively make something that was once legal illegal and thus punish people for past legal, now illegal, acts. You CAN retroactively make what is illegal legal (thus, people prosecuted for a “crime” that is no longer illegal can get out of jail free, etc).
Article that supports post 136
http://thehill.com/leading-the.....10-17.html
Kurt @ 136
Just like Republicans, some Democrats are so wedded to party over country or principle that they will vote for even unacceptable Democrats simply because they are Democrats.
I am not one of those.
Wow. Where to begin? Let’s see, lying to Congress and the American people to get us into a war with Iraq, a country that has NEVER attacked the USA, not even by proxy, and was not even threatening the US. That, according to Nuremberg Principles, means that Bush initiated a War of Aggression against Iraq which is one of the BIG things that Nazis were convicted of after WWII, starting an unjustified war of aggression against neighbors. Like the Nazis conducted wars of aggression and conquest, Bush has conducted a war of aggression and conquest (permanent occupation of Iraq to claim THEIR oil as our own) against a pitiful 3rd world nation.
Next, spying on Americans without warrants. NEVER OK under any circumstances. The 4th Amendment is quite clear on this. Americans are to be secure in their persons, homes, and effects unless served with a valid warrant issued by a court based on probable cause. Not merely suspicion, not reasonable suspicion. Probable cause. Period. There has been none of that and can be none of that when you are conducting a vacuum cleaner process of sucking up ALL communications from or to American citizens in country or even from outside the country (I have a brother that lives in the Bahamas…I absolutely reject the government’s right to listen to my private family conversations simply because one half of the conversation between AMERICAN CITIZENS is outside the borders of the USA).
Torture and abuse of prisoners. This is clearly illegal and unjustifiable in ALL cases. Federal law states that abuse and torture is forbidden. Period. The Geneva Conventions ban them. The Conventions against Torture, Abuse, and Inhumane Treatment also bars torture, abuse, and inhumane treatment (duh). We are signatories to BOTH treaties. The Constitution clearly states that any treaty to which we are signatories is the Law of the Land. Full stop. No argument. Period. No wiggle room. We prosecuted and executed Nazis and Japanese prison and military officials after WWII for acts that included WATERBOARDING, exposure to extreme heat and cold, physical beatings, etc.
Disappearing people, many of them innocent, for years at a time (and even permanently) without any recourse to courts or communication with family, home country, etc. Illegal. Habeas corpus predates the United States and is THE basic foundation upon which ALL the rest, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, rests. There is no statement, by the way, in the Constitution that only American citizens get to enjoy habeas corpus. It is UNIVERSAL, like life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness (the words are NOT “American citizens enjoy inalienable rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness”, it says ALL men. That means EVERYONE worldwide).
Disobeying clear federal laws as passed by Congress. Only Congress can make and pass laws. The President must obey the laws. A President can ONLY veto a law he/she disagrees with or sign it into law and challenge it in court, with the final answer coming from the court. Bush has skipped all this with signing statements and/or simply ignoring laws he finds inconvenient. Nope, that is illegal and NOT the way the USA works, it is the way Banana Republics work. The Rule of Law applies to Presidents, Congressmen, butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers. No exceptions.
There are so many broken laws under Bush that it is a better question to ask what laws has Bush actually OBEYED? Because it is unclear that he has ever obeyed a single law ever passed. If he has, it must have been by pure accident.
Kurt — if your question is serious, in the paragraph starting, “The Administration is now operating . . ” read the first 2 or 3 links from Glenn Greenwald for a start, or better yet, read his book on What Would a Patriot Do, or any book from John Dean. Most folks here are thoroughly immersed in this background and no longer need to have it proved each time.
one thing about Congress wringing their hands over not having info concerning telecom involvement in bush regime illegal activities is that IF they really wanted the information they have the power to obtain it: IMPEACHMENT (are you listening Pelosi?)
Now given that Congress has the power, but refuses to use it, what does that say about Congressional desire to obtain the information (rhetorical question).
.
Praedor Atrebates @ 139
It seems that you are basing your argument on Principal VI. As I recall, the intelligence agencies had identified WMD’s and provided a report to the Pres and Congress. I know some in congress have backed the notion that they were lied to, but they had access to the same intelligence reports. If they based their decision to support Bush at that time, and then claim they were lied to, then what conclusion can you come to? Either the CIA gave mis-information (we know at this time is not true), or they are incompetent and are not doing their jobs, which of course gets us back to the question: Why people are still voting for these politicians :] . Also, we know that Sadam used a WMD against the Kurds, that in itself is reason to go to war. It shows intent to use WMD’s.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/.....d.asp?pg=1
With your torture argument, the Nazi’s and Japanese that were put to death did a lot more than what you listed. We know what the Nazi’s did, but the Japanese did such horrible things to the Phillipino’s, that they still hold a horrible hatrid for the Japanese today. Enough so that the Japanese don’t go to the Phillipine’s for any reason. I don’t like the idea of torture, but if it is a choice between an American city and a suspected terrorist, I’ll take that chance (regardless if the extracted information is good or not). At this point, Bush is working within the bounds of International Law.
Wiretaping is definitely a slippery-slope and will be changellenging the Constitution. I don’t mind what is being suggested in theory, but people are not to be trusted with this type of power…anybody. Eitherway, from a legal standpoing, until the laws are changed, Bush is working within his power.
I am not sure what the point of the last two paragraph’s were, so I won’t comment on them. Until the Congress changes the laws in which the President can act, Bush is working within his boundaries.
Keep in mind also, the Geneva Convention and similar laws, only seem to apply to so-called civilized nations. No other country has followed it universally. I am not saying that isn’t right, I’m just saying that is how it is. Think of the Russians in their last conflict, the Chinese in Vietnam, the militants in Iraq today (against anybody)…none of them follow the Geneva Code. America is the only nation that gets close.
scarecrow @ 140
Thanks Scarecrow, I’ll check out Glenn’s book, sounds interesting. Gonna hold off on Dean though, his credibility is not quite there in my mind.
His book:
http://www.amazon.com/Patriot-.....mp;s=books
Kurt @ 142
The Niger “yellowcake” “16 words” “outing of Valerie Plame” story makes it clear that it wasn’t ‘bad’ intelligence, it was an intentional man-made conspiracy to lie to Americans.
It wasn’t a reason to go to war since he had shown no propensity to threaten us and there was no imminent threat.
We are signators to the Geneva Conventions, so what International Law would obviate that?
I suppose you mean ‘the President’s power’. But, what authority does he have to break the law? I see no slippery slope, just Bush ignoring the law.
Did we sign it? Are we not required to uphold our signatures to the Law?
Haha. I love that you grabbed the throat slashing gesture version of the All Blacks Haka. They didn’t do that too many times before raising a lot of controversy and taking it out.