From Arianna Huffington's interview with Nancy Pelosi:
Over the course of the interview, Pelosi made three specific promises on the question of funding the war and on the Congressional battle over FISA: 1) that the House will not take up a war appropriations bill this year 2) that there will be no war appropriations bill next year that doesn't include a fixed date for bringing the troops home 3) that House Democrats will put up a major fight over the Bush administration's desire to make permanent the FISA law passed in August, particularly over the issue of retroactive immunity that the Senate has already given in on.
A couple of weeks ago Pach, Stoller and I went see Pelosi get an award from PFAW just after the floor vote on SCHIP. She was glowing with victory and the audience gave her a standing ovation. The three of us just looked at each other stony faced, knowing this was all kabuki and that the House did not have the votes to override Bush's veto. While I'm delighted that Pelosi is promising that there will be no appropriations bill that does not include mandatory troop withdrawal, I fear it is just more of the same. Recently the House put forward a FISA bill that does not have retroactive telecom immunity but the Senate has already added it in, and word has it that Steny Hoyer is working furiously to make sure it passes in the House. The fact of the matter is that Pelosi has no control over her Bush Dogs, and Steny Hoyer has built his power base in the House by raising a lot of money for his fellow representatives, particularly freshmen. He negotiated the deal with the Republicans to take timetables out in the first place (PDF), replacing them with benchmarks for the Iraqi government instead. Brilliant move. That one worked out really well, didn't it.
We were supposed to be all giddy over what we are told is a largely for show FISA bill that will turn out to be worse than the one in August, giving criminals in the telecom industry immunity for breaking the law and in the process creating huge profit centers for themselves. We're supposed to clap while all the Democrats scowl at Republican boogeymen who won't vote for children's healthcare when they say nothing about members of their own party they can't even manage to whip.
I hope she's serious. Because I really don't think we're interested in kicking that particular football any more.
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Jane! Did you hear the NPR article this am on Charles Schultz?
Grrrr…
demi @ 1
I did not.
What has happened since the glorious victory days of November, 2006? Honestly, things are worse than before because the people responsible for the horrors that are going on are the ones WE got elected.
My face is stony, but my heart is broken.
I know what I want to kick, and it isn’t a football ….
I, for one, would be happy to know that the White House can’t dictate to Telcos what they can and can’t tell Congress.
And kudos on the graphic - I appropriated a version myself a few days ago…
singles?
minor typo
You want me to set my eyebrows to work on her?
If Junya is so all fired up to give the telcos retroactive immunity for breaking the law, then let Junya feckin’ pardon them!
Nancy…hellooooo…Nancy?
Let Junya do his own dirty work. Don’t do it for him.
He just wants to pawn off the legalization of his crimes on you gullible Congresscritters.
Tell Junya that if he can’t do the time, he shouldn’t have done the crime.
Damn. An award and a standing ovation for Pelosi at a PFAW event.
Did Pelosi win in the category of best performance in kabuki theater for the 2007 season?
The leadership of PFAW apparently just. doesn’t. get. it.
Mad Dogs @ 10
can a business be pardoned?
she can’t possibly be serious so long as any bill contains retro active imunity
corporations have GOT to know they WILL pay if they break our law
they MUST learn there is a price to pay for what they do, and we MUST set an example so future corporations know WITH NO DOUBT they will be punished for the crimes they commit
jane - it’s much worse than that. the fucked up fisa bill in august didn’t have retroactive telco immunity either. just because the the so-called “restore act” doesn’t have retroactive telco immunity doesn’t make it a good bill. it sucks. and the house leadership is rushing it through, while the pretty good holt bill is stuck in committee.
you probably missed my comments on this earlier today. here are some of them for background:
here
here
here
and now, i’m just sitting here hitting reload on the house rules “special rules reported” webpage to see what rule gets written by the committee on fisa today.
had to apologize for my bad mood on the previous thread.
I don’t see us getting anything OTHER than Lucy-yanking-the-football runarounds on any issue of real significance whatsoever since the Democrats “won” Congress, which is why I don’t email, phone, or sign any damn petitions any more. It’s also why I won’t be voting for any national candidate who doesn’t support the Constitution or won’t pledge to get us out of the Middle East. So far, it looks like I won’t be voting for president! If there isn’t a burning local or state issue to weigh in on, I’ll just stay home.
I cry for all the effort folks like you and the rest of the gang at FDL and everybody else out there in the progressive blogosphere puts into these things. I think we have to have the courage to let the Democrats fail completely and utterly. It’s very scary, but they don’t deserve to win the White House. They don’t deserve the current majorities in Congress, either, so why enable them?
The Lucy cartoon should be the logo for the Democratic party. Those guys are just too comfortable in their jobs, and we keep playing Charlie Brown.
Just one of those Kismety things I guess.
Interview with the author of a current Schultz biography. A tidbit I remember is that his father constantly told him, as a child, not to get a Big Head. Why Charlie Brown has such a big one.
Elliott @ 12
Per Wiki:
Doesn’t seem to specify just people, and knowing how lovingly the Supreme Court brown-noses corporate rights, I don’t see why not.
IANAL so YMMV
Mad Dogs @ 16
thanks!
Telcom immunity just infuriates me. It just infuriates me. Infuriates me!
Nance, now is the time to put your disobedient og on a short leash and choke chain.
sy @ 18
and bring them to heel
just for anyone who doesn’t want to click through all those links (sorry about that - wasn’t thinking)….
the fucked up bill, the so-called “restore act”, the house leadership is rushing through (pelosi, conyers and reyes from what i can tell) includes basket warrants.
while the much better bill - written two (or three?) members of the house intelligence committee (so they actually know what’s needed) and who consulted with the aclu (so they actually know the civil rights concerns)… sits stuck in committee.
Is Steny Hoyer really the power broker and Nancy Pelosi the front
manwoman?Hoyer & his “good friend” Boehner make my skin crawl.
The only reason I can see for Bush the Lesser to demand retroactive immunity is that he *knows* that laws were broken.
But Jane — Pelosi’s foreign policy expeditions, particularly on Turkey, are working out so well for America, the Democrats, and our troops!
TeddySanFran @ 24
that was my head exploding!!!!
ackkk
As Jane alway reminds us, this is not a sprint..organize, raise a shit load of money, take names and have long memories.
Steve-AR @ 26
Amen to that!
A great strategy, I think.
Steve-AR @ 26
yeah, but i had this stupid idea that we’d actually be moving forward.
i expect to be lied to by the Rs.
i didn’t expect to be lied to (at least not so dramatically) by speaker pelosi. i’m having trouble getting past that.
i heard this acronym yesterday and it seems to apply here:
BO HICA
(bend over, here it comes again)
i beg your-all forgiveness. i’m going to repost three comments from earlier this morning… ‘cuz my misery wants company. (and yeah, i remember what i just wrote on the last thread about empathy. what a hypocrit)
Hmmmmm….Bandar Bush and BAE Systems…bribary investigation….hmmmm….BAE contributed $10,000 to Steny Hoyer….hmmmmm…oh…and Comcast did too.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003442.php
http://www.opensecrets.org/pol.....cycle=2006
Selise,
Even more of a reason to stick with the plan.
Shrinks always say change happens with two steps forward, one step back. Okay, sometimes it’s three steps back.
Do Not Give Up.
demi @ 32
i’m still hanging in there…. (what’s the symbol for evil grin?)
comment number one:
this afternoon the house rules committee meets to write the rule for H.R.3773, the “restore act,” a bad FISA bill, that will probably be voted on tomorrow.
while the pretty good FISA bill, H.R.3782, the “FISA modernization bill” (written by members of the house intelligence committee) remains stuck in committee (possibly at the request of speaker pelosi)
so, today is probably our last day to effectively lobby for H.R.3782.
for background see here, and here. summary of background:
p.s. speaker pelosi lies about fisa.
;>
okay, maybe not.
shoot. i’m sorry, mods. i forgot and put one too many links.
selise @ 29
It’s frustrating..but frustration = Thugs win.
We need to keep our eyes on our goals:
1)Dem President and retake the govt
2)Defeat as many thugs at all levels as possible
3)More and better Dems
John Dean is right; if we don’t accomplish #1 and a lot of #2, this country is in for long night and will need a new Constitutional Convention in order to return to daylight
comment number two:
basically, it looks like we are being fucked over by our house dem leadership (including pelosi). they are telling us to shut up and accept their “restore act”.
suggestions from ACLU (i just spoke with someone in legislative lobbying).
1. ask for an up or down vote on holt’s bill
- three members of the intelligence committee who know what is really needed drafted this bill in consultation with aclu - it’s not perfect but it’s good, and far far superior to the so-called “restore act”.
- holt may be coming to the house floor to ask for a vote on his bill (it is now stuck in committee).
2. the “restore act” does not pass constitutional muster (in the view of the aclu and our own pow wow). the aclu expects to be comming out with a statement later today against the “restore act”
3. if the “restore act” fails in the house, will we get the even worse senate bill (yet to be released, but which may include telco immuntiy)? that seems to be what we are being threatened with. by our own house dem leadership.
have i said how pissed i am yet today?
comment number three:
mui @ 18
i don’t know, but she’s taken to actively lying to us (see FISA clip).
and yesterday, when i called her office to ask them to confirm or deny that conyers and reyes were holding up holt’s better FISA bill in committee at speaker pelosi’s request - they refused to respond. when i told that story to ACLU rep today, he said, “That doesn’t surprise me.”
In the end, Bush will get everything he wants. Already Harry Reid is dancing around language that ensures the new FISA law gives the White House even more power and the Telcom traders immunity.
What percentage of Americans are even paying attention? Do they see this as anything major? I don’t think there is much opposition which is why I had to make calls again today.
For years ACLU has been a shining light in protecting our rights while having ugly defamatory attacks on their organization. I’m as proud as ever to be a card carrying member of the ACLU. I like to take action with them so my congresscritters know they are still a very viable organization.
Comment: The first woman speaker of the house is tarnished to me. Nancy Pelosi is like a beauty queen too absorbed in having won the crown to focus beyond herself.
/rant.
for the moment. no update from house rules committee yet.
carry on.
Elliott @ 20
Oh hell, just take a rolled up newspaper and show him whose the master. What a bunch of clowns on parade
Does the FISA bill give Bush, Cheney, Gonzo, Hayden, Addington, Fielding, Mueller, McConnell, etc., immunity?
If the Telcos get immunity will they be forced to cough up evidence if any of those named above are investigated?
Would it make it easier to get them to cooperate?
((((selise!))))
Elliott @ 45
Ditto!
I love the smell of fascism in the morning..
As soon as I saw the headline, and before I saw the graphic, I was thinking Charlie Brown and the football.
Nancy as Lucy. Hmmm.
That sez it for me, too, Jane! Thanks!
Aloha,
Bob in HI
Uh, Oh…Hillary eavesdropped on Clinton’s critics..per *ucker.
WTF???
LS @ 49
Always consider the source. After all, it is Tuckery.
*xyz @ 11
PFAW is usually one of the best– along with Common Cause and the ACLU. Perhaps they found the timing on this event somewhat embarrassing.
Bob in HI
dakine01 @ 50
It is from some dumb book. MSM is just softening us up for the FISA bill….Hillary did it…
dakine01 @ 50
Sheer Fuckery…!!! 8-)
LS @ 52
Still, it’s Tuckery who is doing the puffery of the book.
They all are being blackmailed to the hilt - no other explanation.
dakine01 @ 49
how would he know, was he eavesdropping on Clinton?
thanks Elliot and LS.
i think part of my frustration is that sometimes i feel like a crazy person standing at the street corner on an orange crate yelling out bill numbers while people walk by, taking the long way, so as to stay as far away as possible.
i feel much better when i don’t think i’m just shouting into the wind.
Kathryn in MA @ 55
That’s got my vote too, Kathryn. Them and/or their loved ones: compromised, eavesdropped, and documented; financially, ethically, morally, romantically, sexually, whatever.
selise @ 57
That’s why I hang out with the other street-corner folks at the Lake! *g*
10/18 - Extraordinary Rendition/Torture hearing with Maher Arar testifying from Canada!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...../164931/55
TeddySanFran @ 58
They’ve certainly proven it time and again…!!! Can we truly overcome these corporate fascists…??? 8-(
LS @ 59
“Ironically, Maher will be testifying at his own hearing via video-link from Canada, as he continues to be banned from entering the U.S.”
heyZues chreestoast
CTuttle @ 53
It’s from another “Hillary eats babies” hit book by Gert(?). I just hope that the Thugs worst nightmares about Hillary come true.
Now in Hollywood news, Charlize Theron has been signed to play Susan McDougal in a movie about the right wing attacks on the Clintons. Hopefully to be released just prior to the ‘08 election.
Kathryn in MA @ 55
sad to say, some days i hope this is true.
it would be so much worse if they really just don’t care about the same things we do.
but i think that is probably more likely than widespread blackmail.
TeddySanFran @ 59
* staggers over to the soapbox *
I’m feeling ill…
http://politicalticker.blogs.c.....p-nominee/
“At CNN’s America Votes 2008 Breakfast, the chief architect of Bill Clinton’s successful 1992 presidential run predicted that former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush will be the Republican nominee in 2008. Jeb is a younger brother of President Bush.
Carville bolstered his prediction, highlighting Jeb Bush’s career: He was a successful governor of a large state, he enjoys the support of social conservatives, he speaks Spanish, and “he’s somebody the party could rally around,” Carville said.
“There is nobody in this field who can rally the Republican Party; he’s the only person in America that can do it,” he added.”
How do I spell the most blood curdling scream?
Oh yeah, Cheney has no term limit. Swell.
We are perhaps on the eve of electing a new party to occupy the White House starting in 2009. Lahoma wants me to tell her if I think we will again see good government in our lifetime.
TeddySanFran @ 58
No doubt their loved ones - just look at all the ReThugs who mentioned (”I will find out where your kids go to school)”and are going after kids.
Mad Dogs @ 17
Not a lawyer either but, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad
Re-Post..More phoney soldiers:
The Real Iraq We Knew
By 12 former Army captains
Tuesday, October 16, 2007; 12:00 AM
Today marks five years since the authorization of military force in Iraq, setting Operation Iraqi Freedom in motion. Five years on, the Iraq war is as undermanned and under-resourced as it was from the start. And, five years on, Iraq is in shambles.
(snip)
WaPo
selise, I mailed your three-point comment, with additions, to Waxman. (I think it was the second time today: he may get the message a little faster than others.) My commetns were mostly about Madame Speaker and her lack of interest in following through on last fall’s promises, as well as how she said that having subpoena power was so important, but won’t use it now whe has it, and WTF???
(Then I apologized for my language. But I’m not happy with Pelosi and Conyers, not at all.)
LS @ 65
LS
listen to me, this is not going to happen.
Besides, what the hell does Carville know?
LS @ 66
Well, check his track record too. (Besides which, I think that at this point only the 29-percenters would vote for Jeb.)
Imagine this. In a couple of years HRC, Pelosi, Reid, Rahm, Harold Ford Jr. and perhaps Joe Liberman may be in charge.
Elliott @ 72
Carville’s been listening to too many of his wife’s fantasies.
OT..I wish Arlen would STFU until he grows a pair of balls.
TPM
Arlen is also having a bad influence on Leahy.
((((group hug - for comfort in these monstrous times))))
The People have been giddy with excitement over democrats having the majority, we’ve forgotten the way business was run just about a year ago. When the Repubican hammer came down everyone lined up and stood at attention –even Democrats. Are the Democrats so shell shocked they don’t think the people have their backs and the telecom and corpos are still controlling them? Sure looks like it.
We’re so impatient we’re so frustrated that our dear Nancy has told us to be good children and things were going to be ok.
I’m really in no mood to be patient anymore. But we can’t give up. We just can’t. This is our USA and we need to get it back.
here someone steps in and reminds us that this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Time to dump Pelosi and Harry R. Buh Bye.
Steve-AR @ 63
I’d rather a re-release of “V For Vendetta”
Woohoo! Scottish Haggis, today, on CNN…
Specter:
“I certainly would not give them immunity retroactively on programs that we don’t know what they are…. I think it’s unreasonable to ask us to give them immunity for things we don’t know what they did. If there was a need for it at the time, and if the telephone companies were good citizens and if they supplied information which was important, then I’d be prepared to look at it. But I’m not going to buy a pig in a poke, and commit to retroactive immunity when I don’t know what went on. They’ve kept that from us. That’s a big problem, Wolf.”
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004472.php
I don’t understand, if the telecoms are given full immunity against any form of prosecution, would that mean there would be no longer any protection for the average citizen and anyone could now order a wiretap on anyone or make request for their emails as they so desire. Where would the line be drawn.
selise @ 35
Thanks for these details; I used them just now to write to my Congresscritters using Congress.org.
Bob in HI
Hello, friends:
Just sneaking in for a little illicit but much-needed hit of FDL. I know Christy linked it this am, but visit Glenn Greenwald for the last few days if you need some rational evaluation of the Right, it made me crazy but Glenn’s takedowns always soothe the pain. Also, in light of the FISA issue, I found this over at BoingBoing, one-stop shopping to request all the files the government has been keeping on your dirty hippie *ss.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007.....le-an.html
selise, you are a stone wonder, you just need a day off, a pedicure, a massage, a hug. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{selise}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
What you do, I would have to wash my eyes and ears with Clorox, but we love you for it.
Jane, dear Jane, just thank you for being there and for thinking firedoglake was a good idea. You have undoubtedly been right about a great many things in your young life, but this was a biggie.
Listened to the abridged version of Sy Hersh’s Chain of Command last night, doing Broken Government tonight and tomorrow. selise’s Al Gore Speeches are incredibly supportive and fascinating.
Sorry to be so OT and can’t stay, spent too much time with my eye open today and I look like the left side of me has been on a 5 day bender, neat trick at 20 years of sobriety, but I remember…..
Blessings to each and every one of you.
namaste
zen
Simple fact. We can not rely on Congress for anything as long as the dollar is the God of America. We (most of us) all worship at that altar and we are paying the price.
How much is our soul worth? How much is the soul of our country worth? The Corporate Interests are in control and we are dangling on a string. Real money lies in the hands of two groups in this country, the owners of the means of production (of late read money creation) and the anesthetizers.
We must rebuild our country from the bottom up as our forefathers did. Now it is time for new leadership that can stand against the corporate power.
It will not be easy, but we can do it just as it has been done over and over.
john in sacramento @ 69
Jeebus!!! No debate, no nothing. A corporation is a person under the Constitution.
Now I know which SCOTUS
shysterJudge to blame on the takeover of the US by the Corporatists.Linda G @ 78
that’s it in a nutshell.
thanks teddy, pj, kathryn and all for making me feel better. it’s ok, so long as we’re all fighting together on this…
Jane:
Although I still think Nancy Pelosi has no problem with the direction of the country, at the same time I think Steny “the backstabber” Hoyer is pulling a lot of strings to try to ruin the Speaker.
He needs more attention.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/5/3/123758/5207
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....11848.html
http://thehill.com/business.....11-21.html
zennurse @ 84
zennurse!!!
hugs and good thoughts being sent your way.
did you get my email? (i sent a list of some audio stuff i could send you, or give you links to).
zennurse @ 85
smooch, zennurse. take good care of yourself
john in sacramento @ 88 -
multiple problems with multiple layers… we gotta work hard to keep them all straight.
selise @ 87
Right - like in the car that day - “we may be lost but at least we’re all together”
selise @ 88
Thanks for the info, selise
I’ll have to make time to try to read it ;-)
Kathryn in MA @ 92
best laugh all day.
maybe all week.
thank you kathryn, for that!
touche
from Open Left =