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Is Speaker Pelosi using the Armenian genocide resolution to make it tougher for George W Bush to wage war on Iraq?
There are two reasons why relations with Turkey are critically important right now. First, the Turks appear to be ready to wage war on our Northern Front in Iraq, hoping to engage and disable militant pan-Kurdish separatists they call terrorists — who the Turks say threaten their country’s internal stability. Second, fully seventy percent of equipment used in Iraq — and thirty percent of the fuel — passes through our airbase in Incirlik. Not to mention ninety-five percent of the new up-armored IED-resistant vehicles long overdue to our troops.
Based on last week’s House Foreign Affairs Committee‘s passage of the resolution condemning the 1915 slaughter of up to 1,500,000 Armenians, Turkey recalled its ambassador from Washington. It’s unclear what steps Turkey will take when the resolution is taken up by the full House, although they’ve lobbied furiously against it. But it’s clear Speaker Pelosi means to defy the President by allowing a full House vote — this month or next.
If the Turks deny American troops, airplanes, and equipment access to Turkish airspace and withdraw permission to use the airbase, how much harder will warmaking on Iraq become? Is the Armenian genocide resolution an attempt to make an already mistreated strategic ally withdraw necessary support for Iraq warmaking? Just as Jim Webb’s troop respite amendment would secondarily limit the number of troops available to fight, will the Turks’ hurt feelings make warmaking harder?
And is this the Speaker’s intent? Why push forward a non-binding resolution decrying a genocide 92 years ago — right now? The Turks rightly point out that USAmerica has its own genocide history. Former Secretaries of State and former President Carter point out that they wouldn’t vote for this resolution if they were in Congress.
This seems a rather roundabout way to make George W Bush’s war more difficult to wage — but is that the reason it’s on the table? I wish Speaker Pelosi would be more candid with the American people about the table she sets. We’re already unhappy about her taking impeachment off the table. Why not clarify why she’s put Armenian genocide on the table — right now?
UPDATE: The NYT frames this issue:
Pelosi Says Bush Hasn’t Phoned Her About Turkey and Genocide
as if the Village were really like eighth grade. Surely Speaker Pelosi has a greater principle at stake here than simply a phone call the President’s not made to her?
(YouTube of John Lennon “Cold Turkey” NYC, 1972, by vitekmiejnek)
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hey Teddy!
TSF?!!!
Damn laptop!!!
Teddy!!!
g’evening folks teddy, nancy is really starting to piss me off – i don’t even think of ‘grandma pelosi’ no more – she is more like the evil mother in law
The Meddling Mother of the Bride’s report on the first day’s hunt during yesterday’s Opening Day of Wedding Gown Season: bagged it
Hi Teddy….. now back to reading….
Dbacks down three :(
good job Suz…we want pics!
Suzanne @ 5
I think of her more as the doormat kind of mother-in-law at this point. Still, Teddy asks the right questions–including the one about why she can’t just tell us straight what she has in mind.
The bloom is off the rose for me too wrt Pelosi…
The Meddling Mother of the Bride’s report on the first day’s hunt during yesterday’s Opening Day of Wedding Gown Season: bagged it
How many points?
Was it a full curl?
Will you be making deer sausage?
“Not to mention ninety-five percent of the new up-armored IED-resistant vehicles long overdue to our troops.”
I coulda sworn they were shipped up north from Kuwait…!!! Some sheer fuckery is afoot… Don’t piss off the Turks…!!! 8-(
LoudounLib @ 7
when i get them
One wonders why anyone would think that anything short of actually exercising the power of the purse to its fullest extent will cause one scintilla of change in our force posture in Iraq. Bush clearly thinks (based on no evidence of which I am aware) that he is the smartest guy in the room, and He Knows Better.
And some had such high hopes, too.
Perhaps we should be sending Speaker Pelosi buddaha’s (in solidarity with those protesting outside her home)
Hello, all! Exciting news, Suz, about the dress. On Day One of shopping, no less.
And why is Nancy pissing off the turks? Clearly some kind of fuckery is afoot, but what? I thought we were promise an accountable and transparent Congress.
Teddy, what’s the latest on ENDA?
TeddySanFran @ 16
That promise was evidently made to be broken.
Hey ya’ll!
I too wish Pelosi would just tell us where the hell she is going with this. On the other hand, Turkey denying access would put a serious crimp in the “all war, all the time” mindset of this administration.
LoudounLib @ 18
Pelosi might think we already forgot. She might be very, very wrong about that.
Hiya Teddy SF!
Maybe if they have to close the base in Turkey, then we will HAVE to end the war with Iraq. Kinda wimpy way to get there though.
TeddySanFran @ 16
Because it is the wrong thing to do.
my bold
Teddy I am glad you brought this up…. with all the dynamics in the middle east, this resolution was like another whack at the hornets nest
OR my drugged fogged brain just was not connecting the dots
EvilDrPuma @ 8
possibly the straightest line from pt.A to pt.B runs through xyz via the italian riviera, a Rexall store in Des Moines and the Grandma Moses exhibition stolen by an alien spacecraft last seen carting paintings of cows just off Neptune.
CTuttle @ 11
Those up-armored ones are not very good. Things fall off and they don’t turn properly and they can turn over. But it costs more to use tanks and the army doesn’t think tanks are as friendly in a city. So the soldiers get killed more often.
SnarKassandra @ 21
Sports cliche alert!
A W is a W is a W.
They don’t ask how, they only ask how many.
A wimpy winner is still a winner.
SnarKassandra @ 21
That still assumes BushCo is capable of some kind of rational thought, though….
EvilDrPuma @ 27
What’s the saying? Assumes facts not in evidence.
Good Evening Folks,
OT
Friends here know that I’ve been experimenting with a cutting edge cardio-feedback system that I’ve dubbed “Gizmo,” and I’ve promised to keep folks updated on my progress.
I said this was going to be paradigm shifting stuff, and it appears I was right.
Enjoy.
EvilDrPuma @ 27
And judging from past experience, it is a rather large assumption.
Suzanne @ 12
Aloha, Ma Cheri! A sight for sore eyes…!!! 8-)
LoudounLib @ 28
Exactly.
burnspbesq @ 17
HRCampaign is doing a big kabuki dance on the vanity bill — the exclusive bill — they want passed.
HRCampaign is taking lots of credit for all their lobbying but won’t join the 280 national and state organization who say they don’t want an LGB-only bill passed. Essentially, it’s come down to scorecard politics: the pols want to know if they’ll get a bad mark from HRC if they vote for the T-excluding bill, and HRC sez they won’t “oppose” the T-excluding bill.
It looks like Pelosi will “allow” an inclusive bill to come to a vote when “support exists for it.” Please call your congresscritter and ask them to support only HR 2015, the fully T-inclusive ENDA
CTuttle @ 31
Is it like the one you showed us a few weeks ago?
Based on last week’s House Foreign Affairs Committee’s passage of the resolution condemning the 1915 slaughter of up to 1,500,000 Armenians, Turkey recalled its ambassador from Washington.
Turkey recalls its ambassador over a non binding proclamation from the US? Seems extreme. Baretta always said “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time”.
Hiya Suzanne!
Did you read my post yet?????
//end of blog whore
SnarKassandra @ 21
Dang, Missie, I saw ya on Dean’s thread, by the way, he’ll respond to ya, and, then *poof*…!!!
TeddySanFran @ 33
Fuckery! Fuckery most heinous and cowardly.
madmommy @ 19
If she would say that was her intent, I think lots of people would rally round. If this is a way to scale down the BushCheney Regime’s warmaking, then YES. But she won’t say that. She says:
Which makes her sound petty, no?
CTuttle @ 37
I only went there cause PB told me it was still going, but like three threads later.
hackworth @ 35
Maybe Turkey is looking for a backdoor out in regards to the US using their country as a staging ground. They now know they are dealing with a loon, and perhaps think this would provide cover???
Is the president supposed to call her?
Teddy why is there an assumption that Pelosi “allowed” this resolution? Could it be the Speaker is so weak in the minds of her colleagues Dems like Adam Schiff just toss the the resolution out there because….. they feel like doing it?
madmommy @ 34
completely different – think of that white dress that marilyn monroe wore while standing on that air grate.. the grecian style bodice – all done in a lovely crinkle lightweight taffeta embellished with a smattering of crystals, very gentle sprinkled down the long skirt and a row of covered buttons all down the back to the hem to the train.
SnarKassandra @ 36
Written as only someone who lives with a boy that age could! I’m so not looking forward to the stinky phase with the kiddos.
SnarKassandra @ 36
jeez, louise, girl, let me catch my breath. i spent today recovering from yesterday (laughing) i’ll take a look before i got to bed tonight (and that is your one blogwhore of the day, right?)
Suzanne @ 44
Oooh, sounds pretty! I never did the big dress thing for any of my weddings.
SnarKassandra @ 40
No worries he’ll get to it, it’s his B-Day too…!!! He cut out early to deliver a speech, then returned… I believe the thread will be open for a few days, Right Suz…??? *g*
Suzanne @ 44
Sigh…sounds dreamy!
Suzanne @ 46
Yes ma’am. The one and only!
TeddySanFran @ 33
Alas, that would be an utterly meaningless gesture on my part. Calling my guy (Royce, CA-40) a Neanderthal doesn’t even begin to capture the full flavor of it. He’d carpet-bomb Laguna Beach if he thought he could get away with it. I called about SCHIP, and the staffer who took my call was barely civil about it.
Madmommy how many weddings have you had?
hackworth @ 35
Over a committee vote on a non-binding resolution, actually. When France passed a genocide resolution last year, Turkey cut off all military relations.
Given their propensity to make war on Iraq in Kurdistan, and the announced plans of the PKK terrorists to come over the Turkish border and assassinate Turkish leaders, it seems an odd time to piss off the Turks. 87% of Turks say they want to end relations with the US — including all war aid — if the resolution passes.
The oddest thing, though, is that it wasn’t this Turkish government that committed the genocide — it was the government overthrown by the current government. So why not go along with the genocide claims, condemn your old-time predecessors, and apologize?
Suzanne @ 44
English, please…
SnarKassandra @ 52
3, but the first 2 don’t count. Number one was an escape, number 2 was a loser. Both together lasted less than a year and a half. I am the poster child for family values!
SnarKassandra @ 52
ahem… what? Are you writing a book?
Some questions you just don’t ask.
IMHO.
Hey Snarkie and the rest of you all.
Hey You @ 43
Schiff is behind this? Now it makes sense. His district is bright purple and full of Armenians.
newtonusr @ 54
The men don’t know, but the girls understand ;-)
demi @ 56
I was responding to this:
hey demi, how was the camping?
I can’t for the life of me figure why Pelosi would be bringing up the Armenian genocide issue now. If this is a way of putting pressure on Bush to get out of Iraq by indirect means, it’s a little too indirect for me.
I’m going to guess somebody is calling in favors, but who and why now doesn’t make sense.
In any case, it doesn’t matter. Pelosi seems to be operating according to the rules of the closed universe of the Beltway, where the words of pundits and consultants far outweigh the forces of logic and reason or the American people. Anyday now I expect her to tell that nasty, intemperate progressive base “Who cares what you think?”
it’s called politics. if Pelosi told us the plan before, the White House would (rightly so) call it a political stunt, call in the turkish ambassador, talk about it, deride it, laugh about it and done. sometimes you got to create facts without giving the others enough time to counter them up front …
and all these allegations about the WH not talking to her being petty doesn’t make them less true … see, good politicians work with truth and timing ^^
burns, that guy works for you and you have every right to call him and inform him of same and demand that he listen to what you, as his boss, have to say.
these forking bastoids get away with it based on ‘their base’ and dems don’t call because it doesn’t do any good. well, not calling tells the bastoids to keep the status quo and given them cover – since no one calls to complain.
SnarKassandra @ 59
Yes. I picked up on that. Still.
demi @ 56
No big whoop to me. If someone can take a lesson from my youthful stupidity then it’s all to the good ;0)
newtonusr @ 54
expensive
Spiritcatcher @ 62
So she’s going to let the Turks take credit/blame for ending our occupation of Iraq?
SnarKassandra @ 21
politics:the art of the possible
Loudinlib,
Well, it was faboo.
The steak was terrific.
The fire was bright and wonderful.
All was great and I was sleeping so peacefully, until at about 3 am, I woke up because I was wet!
It was a perfectly clear sky when we went to bed, so we didn’t put the rain cap on the tent.
Big whoops.
madmommy @ 55
There’s a wacky WAC shootout on ESPN, 2OT (58-51)
TeddySanFran @ 53
Prolly ’cause them Turks, like most humans, jes don’t like bein’ told what to do. Especially about something as touchy as genocide.
Imagine how Mr. Cyst, Hannity and CoulterGeist would react if the French demanded that we admit that our GWOT in The MeatGrinder was really a genocidal attack on the Iraqi people?
Despite the fact that an argument could be made for that position it would create a firestorm of hate here in ‘The Shining City on the Hill’ GW version.
Good evening dear friends.
The oddest thing, though, is that it wasn’t this Turkish government that committed the genocide — it was the government overthrown by the current government. So why not go along with the genocide claims, condemn your old-time predecessors, and apologize?
Partly it is understanding the region, the Turks have always denied the genocide and admitting now they would loose face. History has deep roots and weird dynamics.
Greece has not been occupied by Turks for over a hundred years but the worst insult is to say “your father was a Turk” or reference Turkish ancestry
CTuttle @ 70
But, more importantly, SAINTS WIN! In Seattle no less. Not one pre-game show today gave them a snowball’s chance. Excuse me while I Snoopy dance!!!
Madmommy,
Sorry for polking my nose into your thing.
Shouldn’t have.
Sometimes my sense of propriety gets the better of me.
But….Snap on the Big Whoops.
Correction, 3OT 58-58 Nevada-Boise St…!!!
Might have to get up early for this WaPo chatz tomorrow:
Mike Gravel at 10am eastern
1) TSF, yer in The City (he says with SUCH reverence) so you should know better n I do.
Don’t PELOSI have a HUGE constituency of Armenian’s in SF, and one or two more parts of NorCal/SoCal?
That alone ’splain’s her seemingly BOFFO move, and a violation of Rule #1 In The ME-Don’t PO Turks.
2) I’m with whoever above that suggests most of our supplies are coming from the SOUTH of Iraq, thru Jordan and Kuwait and the ports on The Gulf.
AIR ROUTES for USAF flights of any sort DO require Turk approval, and certainly Incirlik has supported a NUMBER of ops in its history, but Wiki says, it’s mostly for LEAVING Iraq, not entering . . . as of late . . . at least that’s what I got outta the Wiki . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base
So I’m quite doubtful that Mz. Nancy has any plan, other than pressure from a big ass Armenian lobby, to hold fire to The Turks feet.
To do so don’t shut down BoyKing, it only further obfuscates and engenders an embroiglio which could EASILY lead to the kind of turmoil that unleashed WW1.
The Kurds are NOT alone . . . we are NOT their only ally. They are signing oil agreements with many folks . . .
For Pelosi or Congress to USE the Armenian Genocide issue AGAINST the BoyKing, while risking PISSING OFF THE TURKS, risks starting a new world war . . . I hope to god they ain’t that stupid, Pelosi and Congress, and I hope to bhudda they don’t MEAN to use religious and cultural diffrences to launch unmitigated violance in the ME, cuz they think WE THE USA can pick up the pieces and profit, and dominate, after the violence.
See, there’s this China, and Russia, with their OWN needs in the ME. To piss off the Turks, and have them LAUNCH at the Kurds en masse, will piss off a LOT of people.
Pure clusterphuckabia, start to finish, the kind of phuckobia NO ONE can control.
Does Pelosi WANT to piss off Turks, Chinese and Russian forces? Or is she nutz?
THAT’s the part I can’t get a handle on, all I know is, Pelosi is fuckin nutz for ANY of this.
But so is the BoyKing . . . and so far, I’ve not seen ANY ample evidence, they ain’t workin for the same corporate interests to line their pockets.
SO, I distrust them all.
As Always, Joke Them If They Can’t Take A ___K.
Congrats on the win madmom.
TeddySanFran @ 53
Are they looking for an excuse to break ranks with the US? The US smashes the shop window, Turkey runs in and grabs the teevee sets.
Turkey has been eyeballing Northern Iraqistan like a fat kid eyeballs cake. There’s oil in them thar marshes.
demi @ 75
No worries demi! It’s such ancient history to me, like a completely different person. I believe everyone has to go through stuff to get to where they need to be, and I am where I need to be.
Suzanne @ 63
I understand what you’re saying, Suz, but there is one statistic that IMO invalidates your position.
Sixty-seven percent.
The guy is invulnerable. And he sincerely believes that we are doing God’s work in Iraq.
Normally, all of my money and all of my effort gets exported to where it might do some good. I made an exception for SCHIP because every vote counts and because it’s an issue that actually impacts voters in this district, so I thought he might pay attention.
Thanks Betsy, how are ya?
My congressman says Graeme Frost lives in a 3,000 square foot house, does anyone in the world believe you can live in 3,000 square foot house and pay Maryland income tax and Baltimore Property Tax on $45,000 a year? My congressman (R) wrote in the newspaper today.
TexBetsy @ 72
Hi, Betsy.
madmommy @ 82
Doing well, thanks. Had a good day. Go look at my flickr. You?
Hello To The Good People of the Lake! I usually lurk and read here – always, always a good investment of my time. I just have a few minutes now and am so disappointed by our current congressional leadership that I just have to take a break from focusing on what those people are doing, at least for tonight. So, how’s about a dancing cockatoo, grooving to the Back Street Boys? This is short and too cute, and the website is worth knowing about. http://birdloversonly.blogspot…..dance.html
Wishing you all a pleasant evening.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 24
I kinda like the way your mind works. Or flows. ;)
Hackworth, exactly, and the Kurds’ native capital, Kirkuk, sits atop a prolific field…!!!
Turkey has 60,000 troops on the Kurdish border, and they started shelling the Kurds last nite:
Until we see some evidence that Pelosi is freelancing her own foreign policy, might we do well to limit that kind of speculation? I don’t remember being too happy to hear the Malkins and Goldbergs of the world go on about her Syria trip (which, if you recall, included passing along messages from State.)
Sandman @ 83
I’d say your Congressman is a moron who needs to hire a fact-checker. I would imagine that’s easily verifiable from the Bawlmer City property tax rolls, which are a public record.
burnspbesq @ 82
not calling him sends him the message that what he is doing is ok – and even if the calls do get ignored, you are doing your job as a citizen to point out the errors of the ways of your elected officials.
its that squeaky wheel that gets their attention
TexBetsy @ 85
Visited with the sweetest mother in law in the world, then took the kiddos to the Wooden Boat Festival, then to work. I’ll check teh Flikr.
Sandman @ 83
Perhaps they’re counting the land, the roof, the driveway….
hi Betsy, sorry for the late greeting. Dealing with a cat who’s not feeling so good tonight.
LoudounLib @ 95
Poor kitty!
Linda @ 87
welcome and don’t be a stranger – visit (and comment) often :)
CTuttle @ 76
AACK! That damn blue turf hurts my eyes!
Rockies win, up 3 games to 0 over the D-Backs.
Welcome Linda.
TexBetsy @ 97
Yeah :-( 12 year old with chronic renal failure, she has good days and bad.
Professor Foland @ 90
The resolution has 215 co-sponsors, enough to pass, so she’s hardly free-lancing. But she controls what comes to the floor of the House, completely and entirely. So she’s accountable for what bills move.
The why is the question I raise here, and correctly I think.
Linda @ 87
Welcome Linda!
I have to send your link to my sister in AZ, who has half a dozen cockatoos now!
I have hope that Nancy is shiving the Turks to put some kind of constraints on the war. I really think she is kissing the butts of the American Armenians. Apparently they are big on giving out cash to pols.
I had a small window of time this afternoon and tried to get on with the Dean chat, only to find it not working for me. I was able to catch up later, but it aggravated me so I decided to upload Firefox. So far, I likey!
I wonder if the cops were dispatched to Evan Bayh’s house around 10:45 Saturday night to investigate reports of a woman screaming.
His wife is a former Cal cheerleader.
Cassandra quietly climbs to the top of the ladder and peers over the edge. The deep end is fairly empty. She takes only two bounces and flies out as far as she can in a simple swan dive. No splash. She swims by all the firepups and says good night to each one (including Linda!) and gets out at the shallow end. She dries off, puts on a pair of purple crocs, and walks home.
Night all!
Yes, welcome Linda.
And best thoughts for LL’s notfeelingso good kitty. (((kitty))
TexBetsy @ 95
Graeme Frost will be on KO Monday night.
TeddySanFran @ 89
60,000 is a big number to place at the border to fight an unspecified number of Kurdish Rebels (supposedly entrenched in peasant farmland!). Is there any evidence of attacks by rebels on Turkey? I doubt it. Seems to me the Kurds would be the defenders in this equation. Who’s sitting on the oil here?
Goodnight Cassie!
Welcome, Linda!
g’nite cassie, sleep well
(whisper, shhhhh!) Steve-AR, that is what I wrote about on my blog. Click my name. Bye.
‘night Cassie, have a great day tomorrow.
demi, thank you!
and Linda, that cockatoo vid was excellent!
Hi Suzanne and Hi TexBetsy, and thank you for the welcome. I keep thinking I’ll post more often, but there is usually so much going on here that I get lost in reading and forget about commenting. And tonight, I have to call it a day, I’m falling asleep. And Suzanne, thanks for the new word “bastoids” I like that.
Sleep well Linda. Come tomorrow night for a birthday cake or two.
Linda @ 115
She just doesn’t want to drop a quarter in the swear jar, though rumor has it she is using the same quarter over and over. :0)
Good night, Cassie.
demi @ 108
Demi, still “f” challenged?
It’s heating up:
AUMF, Ankara version:
madmommy @ 117
I’m on a fixed income here! Of course it is the same forking quarter.
Steve-AR @ 119
Demi doesn’t have her f yet. (singsongie)
Suzanne @ 120
So what did you do with that $5 bill I posted the other night?
Suzanne @ 121
Same here, I’ve got a string attached to my quarter!
Steve-AR
Nope, was just being F’ing Lazy.
I help out by moderating since I can not afford to donate to help out. For those who can, there are hungry servers out there that need to be fed. The donate button is at the upper far right hand corner of every page here at the lake.
I’m just reminding ya’ll…
Teddy, I love your post.
I love the prospect Nancy is actually canny enough to use her power to stop this Evil War.
From your keyboard to the Goddess’ ears.
And I despise her if she’s doing that yet too “canny” to rally support for direct opposition to the war.
Just scanning down the thread, but the largest group of Armenians living outside of Armenia are in SoCal.
When I want good Armenian food, I can find it in Glendale (and many other LA communiites). Yum!
California’s Armenian community is quite politically active – IIRC Gov. Deukmajian is a member of the community.
My Cub Scout (and Boy Scout) friend Allan never mentioned the genocide. My friend on the HS yearbook staff (and one of our super pjotographers) never mentioned the genocide.
I don’t think much of Pelosi, but I’m glad the Turks’ genocide against the Armenian people is held up before the world.
Even as our failing Empire totters through our genocide in Iraq.
BTW – Robert Fisk has a bit to say on this:
Suzanne @ 125
And we love you for your moderation, Suz!
burnspbesq @ 51
I’ll see you Royce and raise you Campbell! I emailed him anyway.
Tex, I spent it here, and here.
Suzanne @ 125
Tomorrow’s payday, thank goodness. I’m still reeling from the size of the check I had to write to the IRS today.
TeddySanFran @ 53
Because the Turks were an Empire a few times, and their cultural history is one borne of power, rule and control.
And they are in general, racist as all hell, as are MOST empire’s and wanna be empire’s longing for the past when THEY were #1.
It takes a special tribe of our species to deny this call and pull to power . . . not many have prevailed, as history shows.
As a species, there are LOTS of tribes out there still wiling to eliminate their foe’s, then find new foes to eliminate, as they expand.
USA included . . . the whole sordid mess in the former Yugoslavio state, all THAT is still long ongoing and is basically racially based and cultural based beyond the religious hype . . . and there are many others . . . plenty of other state’s, cultures and religons still slaughter entire population’s any time they can.
Huttu, Tutsi, Burmese, Somalia and ITS cast, east coast of Africa, Senagal to Dem Rep Of Congo . . . Indonesia and its islands, Thailand is struggling . . .
So the Turks won’t apologize, anymore than WE THE USA will . . . . cuz it’s writ that we are ENTITLED, to rule.
And so it’s been writ, for millineums . . .
Silly Humans.
burnspbesq @ 92
A republican (same thing as moron) and a Medical Doctor!!!
Welcome, Linda!
(((((LL and kitty)))))
demi @ 125
It’s Sunday night, Suzanne is here and she will help. Suck it up and get your “f”.
TeddySanFran @ 127
and we just love ya! FIRST token of that love. More tomorrow.
Sandman @ 131
Much like Bill Frist. One might have hoped that an MD would come with a side of compassion and human decency, but so much for that notion.
Steve-AR @ 134
(hand raised timidly) I still can’t get it to work for me.
thank you kirk! (kitty is smiling, too)
EvilDrPuma @ 136
Evidently that Hippocratic oath thingy is not carved in stone, for some.
Um…Stephen…notice the little blue f on my lazy response?
Uh, yeah, that one.
I was just too lazy to log in tonight. Just got back from camping and was doing Other Stuff.
Oh, and by the way, nice new shot on your FB page.
:::blushing:::
thanks teddy and tex
Sandman @ 132
There are some Democratic morons, too, alas. To cite only one example, I think the old line about Gerald Ford can also be applied to Heath Shuler.
TeddySanFran @ 102
I meant free-lancing wrt the executive branch, not her caucus.
I have to agree that the reactions from every single player in this have been completely puzzling. You’d think Turkey would be finding a way to quietly bury this, not flag it on the nightly news. You’d think that in view of the PKK situation State would be trying to cram it back down Congress’ throat, not calling it “unhelpful” (which is about the most anodyne thing you can say). You’d think Bush would call. You’d think Dems would not get such a bee under their bonnet about, as Maher put it, “sending a message to the Ottoman Empire.”
So I don’t disagree it’s weird and worth discussing. But I think Pelosi’s MO so far has shown it generally most unlikely that she’s playing hardball to end the war.
Dakine’s famous FaceBook primer, Demi…
madmommy, you got a f/b page – gotta have that first
if so, i’ll walk ya through the rest of the steps
madmommy @ 138
Nope. And that being the case, I don’t know why such a person should expect me to trust them with anything else, either. For all the bad things that can be said about many societies of the past, at least they took an oath seriously.
newt, glad you saved those instructions; I know dakine doesn’t stay up this late!
Suzanne @ 146
Got that, and I’ve actually tried the steps listed at #145, but with the cutting and the pasting I get all buggered up. I am a Luddite with a PC, basically.
TeddySanFran @ 53
From memory, the predecessors of which you speak include the revered Ataturk, founder of modern Turkey and a national icon.
LoudounLib @ 148
They’re how I got my “f”.
madmommy, i’m going to walk the cutest dog in the world (he is on a quest to save the redwoods, one tree at a time) and when i get back, we will get you properly f’d
EvilDrPuma @ 147
Oath, shmoath. Protect and defend the Constitution; first, do no harm; there’s just no honor amongst thieves.
Um…after Steve-AR asked, I went back and logged in. The f is showing on my screen. Does anyone else see it?
Yes, I need validation.
Book and bed time, friends. Be excellent to each other.
demi @ 154
Yes, the blue f is shining brightly.
Sadly, not obligatory.
Fortunately, not mutually exclusive – or so I’d like to think (and live).
‘night EDP, enjoy.
demi, a big blue “f” to you! *g*
night evil!
To force an end to the war by damaging an already damaged relationship with a long held US ally who also happens to be one of the few moderate Muslim democracies sounds like something the present Moron in Chief would do.
More amateur hour actions from the House. Hopefully they’ll take up a resolution condemning the Huns too.
-GSD
I feel so f’ing validated!
and,
Evil Dreams, Oh, Puma One.
Hi everyone.
demi, your “F” is right there.
SnarKassandra @ 112
Uhoh, Suz, that’s dangerously close to Blog-whoring…!!! ;-)
So, people, since I’m F’d, can anyone tell me that my grandpug is not the cutest pug in the world?
Suzanne’s Token is the cutest Dog in the world, so I won’t even try to compete. And I met him/her (I forgot the gender) and it’s true.
Evening, GSD and Ron… Nite, EDP…!!! *g*
demi @ 141
I changed to a shot from AZ after someone made a “cute” comment about the previous pic. I hate cameras but the GF is always nagging.
Very very cute Demi.
Notice too how the Turkish democracy operates. The President is going to the congress to get approval to make the incursions into Iraq.
How very procedural and constitutional of them.
-GSD
hiya Ron :-)
The Ottoman Empire of Evil
From my pre-war studies: the Kurds, like Gypsies, Jews, Palestinians and Armenians, remain a despised group often used as pawns when not being vilified. Turkey was not amenable to our overflights on the way in because they knew the Kurds would press for an independent Kurdistan.
During the war: it’s rumored Mossad works closely with the Kurds to spy on Iran.
On the Armenians: finally, someone’s setting the record straight publicly. In this case, it looks like Holocaust survivor Tom Lantos is lead spokesman, which makes sense. Bush can’t attack him easily w/o angering AIPAC. Seems to make sense for Pelosi to take advantage of that, even if it seems pretty backdoor for those of us who relish directness and see advantage in it,
Guesswork: by not promoting it as an antiwar strategy, the GOP has less to rally ’round here, because Lantos can say rightfully Hitler cited the Armenian genocide to make the case that everyone would overlook his.
Cast that way, it’s difficult to oppose. And Pelosi saying “Bush hasn’t called’ looks like she’s suggesting “it can’t be so important if he’s made no direct effort to negotiate. Puts him on the defensive, yes? And he’s gotta give up something to negotiate any delay.
It’s kinda like washing sausage being made only with a Cheney casing. Not very nourishing or tasty but maybe it’ll kill off some porkers profiteering off the murder of half a million…
GSD @ 161
Seems like the neocon plan would not include any arrangement wherein teh Turks confiscate all that viscous goo in Kurdish Iraq. That would not be profitable. Is the whole stinking clusterfuck roiling into total chaos?
Y’all miss this? Suzanne? This one’s special!
Hello RonDog.
Hackworth,
The original neo-con plan had the Turks agreeing to allow the US to enter Iraq via Turkey.
That didn’t work out so well, so this is definately more clusterfuckery in action.
-GSD
GSD @ 168
Damn heretic!
TexBetsy @ 173
Technically it IS the big day. At least it is here in EDT-ville.
Token is a token imitation male mutt, mom is laso alpso and min poodle (with a wee bit of maltese we think) and dad is a scottie, yorkie, and rat terrier mix. his diet is working and he is down to a svelte 9lbs now
TeddySanFran @ 53
And that same Turkish government has decried almost all other aspects of Ottoman rule. I really don’t see how this insults the current Turkish state anymore than a resolution decrying the Atlantic slave trade implies that the current governments of Brazil, England, the United States and Jamaica are responsible for those acts.
And the resolution has been passed by the House twice before, with the Senate failing to pass.
As for the timing. All resolutions of this nature often get howls of protests from hyper-sensitized regimes and peoples. There will likely NEVER be a good time…as the current Turkish Government is about as “moderate” as there have been in a long time. The Turks simply don’t want to acknowledge that Turks, at any time, under any conditions, would have done such things. It’s odd though, that the EU has stipulated that such an acknowledgement occur before the Turks are accepted into the EU…the Turks continue to try to join the European Union, though. They appear to want to “negotiate” that bridge when they arrive at it.
I don’t support the continued denial of historical fact. People have to start facing up to their history. And YES, the recognition that the US was involved in the attempted genocide of Native Americans, that slavery is authorized in the original words of the Constitution, and that the Civil War was fought over, not “States Rights”, but a States Right to enslave human beings, ARE just as important. Do we hold off the expression of THOSE realities simply because the some parties might be “offended”? Do we deny recognizing that the Conderate States seceded because of the issues surrounding slavery…simply because it might offend “Southern sensibilities”?
I’m not sure there will ever be a “time” when this won’t effect Turkish-American relations and have some sort of an impact. Or at least some Turkish expressions of veiled threat. There will always be something raised to attempt to block it. This time it is the need to “protect the Kurds from cross-border retaliation” and keep Incirlik open.
Maybe that IS Pelosi’s surrepticious motive…to make the war more difficult to maintain. It would ALSO make it far more difficult for Der Bush to wage an air war on IRAN (and make Israeli overflights more precarious without that “cover”) BTW.
But at the same time it would also make it far more difficult to WITHDRAW those American forces already in Iraq FROM the country. Without Incirlik and an open Turkish border the troops in Kurdistan (and elsewhere) would have to exit vs. the Gulf States (or, less likely, Jordan). So I’m not at all sure that this will shorten the occupation. Once the withdrawals actually do begin it would slow things down considerably.
Seems a Hobson’s choice, as almost everything has become in this quagmire called Iraq.
GSD @ 168
They had an election about a month ago. The ruling party has a solid majority. What the Pres wants, the Pres gets.
Suzanne, this is from the east coasters.
Kevin, that’s all interesting, but what do you think W will give up in exchange for her dropping a non-binding resolution that has enough votes to pass anyway?
here in the not-so-far East, I wish you happy birthday Suz!
TexBetsy @ 173
a doggie biscuit cake – is it for peoples? (laughing) first token
Hi pups, back from rural Wisc. with lots of freshly pressed apple cider. (Teh youngest (living) brother bought an antique cider press so extended family picked apples, sorted, ground, pressed, alotta work but unbelievably good). It’s organic (not certified) ‘n fresh, i put a couple gallons in the fridge near the tiki lights. A jar of cinnamon sticks for those who want hot cider rather than cold. Sorry, you’ll have to heat it in the microwave unless some brave pups want to rig something up to heat it in the bonfire.
((((( loudounlib & kitty! ))))))
a slightly early happy b’day to suzanne, best mod in the known universe.
(claps encouragingly) madmommy, go for it! Tho i must admit when i got f’d it did take all my loose change for the ol’ swear jar …
tomorrow nights pups… tomorrow night, i am not a moderator – i’m a celebrating pup tomorrow night
Suzanne @ 183
It is a dog-lover’s cake.
GSD @ 175
Back to the old smash and grab someone suggested earlier.
mmmm, cider — thanks ndfg!
Very sad day for me. Read the latest Walter Mosley book today. Book is fantastic, but it looks like Mosley has killed off Easy Rawlins, perhaps my favorite character in contemporary fiction.
cider goes great with doggie lover’s token cakes
Teddy I am thoroughly intrigued by your report.
I’m not sure what N.Pelosi is up to but I hope its to the end the people want.
I always thought the Turks had reluctantly allowed us to use their airspace with foreign aid to loosen their resolve.
Now I think many things are going on behind closed doors that may fulfill her promise that she would make GWB accountable without impeachment.
Suzanne @ 187
Look out ya’ll, Suzanne’s gonna take off her mod hat for the evening. No that we would ever be anything but civilized and well-mannered, of course!
Happy Early B-day to you!!!!!
EDP, I wish you a good night.
I love rhetoric as much as the next pup – and I oftern paint with an excessively broad brush.
Perhaps I misunderstand…
Yet the quoted comment seems to assume that if one MD can’t be trusted, we all can’t be trusted – for the same reason.
Would such a blanket statement about Ph.D’s and academic faculty be accurate – or a reflection of rigorous thought?
EDP, you and I are friends here.
I’m not trying to pick on you – today just happens to be the day I’ve started to wonder if the systemic pundit/media derogation of:
supports the megacorps’ PR goals.
Yep – it does – but I’m too tired an busy to find the citations.
Lots of physicians are greedy incompetent lethal bastards – yet many physicians uphold ethical precepts honored over millenia.
Many attorneys and PhD’s are whores and hacks – yet many more provide our bulwark against despotism and mob ignorance.
I hope we can all honor most all of one another’s trades, skills, professions, and callings here….
GSD @ 169
I have often wondered about this when I hear people refer to Israel as “the ME’s only democracy”.
The Prez serves to pleasure elites in places like Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Enron. The majority of Americans can’t get 5 million kids healthcare, because he’s too busy giving blow jobs to all his Middle East superiors.
And he gives the troops the used cigar.
~~~ModNote: Edited for content to clear filters.~~~
burnspbesq @ 191
Well I have to rush right out and get it.
Suzzane, hope the Cutest Cottage sells on your B-Day!
TeddySanFran @ 183
Who knows? Maybe SCHIP. Maybe a bridge to Alcatraz.
GSD @ 175
I concur! 4th ID was about to disembark, and, the Turks said nuh-uh!!!
Suzanne @ 192
she’s be cider self.
RonD @ 194
Turkey has a full and robust set of democratic institutions, but the army always has its thumb on the scales, and has sent pretty clear signals over an extended period of time that if it sees “too much” Islamism in the government, it won’t stay in the barracks.
you said :making it harder for Bush to wage war on Iraq”.
Did you mean Iran though?
I’m reminded of Noam Chomsky’s assertion in Hegemony Or Survival that the axis of evil is not the disparate Iraq, North Korea and Iran, but is The US, Isr*el and Turkey.
Wowzeers. I just checked my email and I have 3 new friends.
I’m In With The In-Crowd. I Go Where The In-Crowd Goes…..
newtonusr @ 196
It’s called Blonde Faith.
where’s tonight’s soundtrack folks? have ya’ll used up all your quarters?
Has anyone heard anything from Wangdangdoodle?
If not, I’m gonna write to her and find out what’s shaking.
I miss her.
demi @ 202
;)
Suzanne @ 205
I’m listening to some amazing live performances by Wes Montgomery from 1965 on a DVD that is part of the “Jazz Icons” series. Lemme see if I can find any of it online.
hackworth @ 188
Certainly not in Powell’s ‘Pottery Barn’…!!!
demi @ 204
Make that 4.
It’s off to bed for me. Still trying to nail down the logistics for the little guy taking the bus to school. The driver was supposed to call me this weekend but didn’t. So tomorrow afternoon I will be hearing “peas, momma, peas, rida bus!” all the way home. Sigh.
Damn that General Sanchez, he’s betraying the Republican Party!
Attack, attack, attack!
-GSD
I’ve got on The Door’s Land Ho from the Morrison Hotel CD.
madmommy @ 209
He sounds very cute. Good night and enjoy tomorrow.
cinnamonape @178
The issue is that the people of Turkey will not admit to the genocide, regardless of what administration was in charge.
It is the same reason why many Americans will not admit to the evils done by our government. The same reason why Repugs never ask why do they hate us.
It is like working with a puzzle but I do not have all the pieces and cannot see the picture.
CTuttle @ 210
What a Colonossal joke that turned out to be!
punaise @ 202
ah, punaise in da house!
madmommy @ 212
G’nite, MM!!! Demi ya got incoming…!!!
a kinda sucky version
TeddySanFran @ 218
thanks ferment shunning it
‘night madmommy, from a distracted house of LL here ;-)
demi, wangdang was on a day or two ago, as I recall…ok, but the quote I remember was that work was “sucking [her] soul.
Here’s That Rainy Day
beth in cary @ 204
I think you may be right.
BTW, I clicked on your url and it came up “deleted”.
demi @ 209
She dropped by briefly yesterday I think. Job’s a pain, and she has a new kitty…keeping her busy I guess!
demi @ 209
I noticed a comment from her yesterday sometime. Apparently work is busybusy but she’ll be back regularly when things quieten down there.
One more token of our love for Suzanne. (This one is not food.) Lots of cakes and cookies for tomorrow.
Burns:
From Al Jaze*ra.
“I think the decision for the government to receive authorisation to stage military interventions is intended, first of all, to demonstrate how serious they are about asking the Iraqi government to control terrorist activity in its own territory,” he said.
Murat Karayilan, head of the armed wing of the PKK, told the Associated Press on Saturday that Turkey could expect to meet tough resistance if its forces crossed the border.
Idiot Boy lit the fuse to the worlds longest wicked firecracker.
It has been burning for 4 years and is about to reach the frogs ass.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
beth in cary @ 204
No, but there’s an idea.
GSD @ 212
Now that AG Albertoe Gonzales has left the building, they’ll find it plausibly deniable to backhand latinos.
I’m a single parent for the next couple of days, and duty calls. See y’all tomorrow night.
‘night burns.
Salon.com
Sleep well Burns.
Nite burnspbesq
g’night burns
peanutbutter @ 225
She was building a chicken tractor!
Hey You @ 43
I had similar thoughts about the Obey tax surcharge thing a few weeks ago. At first, I thought Pelosi sounded terrible talking about it, a few hours after Obey announced it.
Then I wondered, hey, did Obey talk to anybody about this before he did it? If not, why not? I’m wondering now if Pelosi had even heard of Obey’s surcharge proposal until the reporter asked her about it. It sounded as if she was totally blind-sided.
Nite, Burns! G’day, Persi…!!! I wuv’s the Lake… *g*
punaise @ 235
Repeal the Bush and Reagan tax cuts, raise the corporate tax rates, eliminate the differential for capital gains, and ramp the estate tax up to 70% on estates over $5,000,000.
Oh, and nationalize the oil companies and dissolve Halliburton and Blackwater.
in a jazz state of mind tonite, here’s one of my old faves. Horace Silver Quintet playing Senor Blues in 1959. One of those songs I’d have to have if exiled on a desert island.
I rarely want to tell someone to shut the fu*k up. But…..
Pickles is coming out of the jar and is now becoming an emissary because her brain damaged better half has burnt every fu*king bridge on the plant.
Pickles, shut up and gaze.
-GSD
Yep-found it-WDD was on Sat AM. If you’ve ever been curious about what a “chicken tractor” is, this thread is for you.
TeddySanFran @ 231
That’s actually where I thought you were headed with that too. Can’t stop the war in Iraq so much since it’s already going. But easier to stop something not yet started (eg Iran sabre rattling). I mean Iran’s a lot bigger, probably don’t “need” Turkey to stage things, but if Turkey’s cranky, more attention may have to go back to Iraq?
I dunno…
….what do you think W will give up in exchange for her dropping a non-binding resolution that has enough votes to pass anyway?…..
Not a darn thing; its the perfect nuisance to provoke and attract Iran to the fight to protect their interests …and then he can blame them for interfering and “punish” them appropriately.
TeddySanFran @ 242
Sounds most excellent. And fix the AMT; just tag it with rising (or falling) inflation…
Dru @ 244
dru, did you see john dean answered your question in his first comment today.
Wow, I was watching a Football game, and, all of sudden a Basketball game broke out… 67-65 Boise in 4OT’s…!!! 8~)
CTuttle @ 241
G’day Chikka! The Lake is simply the best.
Thanks all for the updates on WDD.
I’m gonna write to her and say hey.
Thanks to Katy, Peanutbutter, Ctuttle, Madmommy, and Newtonuser.
The friendships grow.
And, now I’m taking my friendly ass to bath, book and bed.
The mister’s going out of town this week, so I might log a few more hours at late nite. See you all later, then.
sleep well and joyous parenting, burns.
(trying not to imagine lullabys for the free market)
(with apologies to the Chicago Boys – for keeping them waiting.
human rights tribunals are backed up this decade…)
BTW: I’m starting to see a lot of these things. Looks like stuff could be heating up in CA to increase Democratic members of Congress…
CA-03: This time, it’s P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L
goodnight, demi.
{{{demi}}}
demi @ 252
*waves*
Nighty night!
Soon’s my laundry’s in the dryer, off I go!
Nite, Demi…!!!
TeddySanFran @ 240
That will fix the deficit right quick. Don’t forget to raise the cap on Social Security from 97,000 to 125,000 and lower the retirement age to 62.
g’night demi
Suzanne @ 249
Yes, thanks, I did. He stayed late! I left a thank you at the end of that thread and just missed him by a few minutes. He is so gracious!
Nightie night Ron.
I coulda used a guitar this morning. :)
Would Turkey’s ambition to join the EU temper their response to the resolution? Not that Congress has any impact on the EU as such but it wouldn’t look too good for Turkey if they’re not “good international citizens”.
G’nite CT and LL.
(CT how come ya got no face on facebook?)
Sleep well demi.
In the news ….
Maternal Mortality Shames Superpower US
from CommonDreams.org
United Nations – Despite its enormous wealth and highly advanced technology, the United States lags far behind other industrialised countries — and even some developing ones — in providing adequate health care to women during pregnancy and childbirth. The U.S. ranks 41st in a new analysis of maternal mortality rates in 171 countries released by a […]
GSD @ 244
From yer linky:
Probably thinks hisself lucky to get upsided the head, remembering what she did to the first boy who dumped her.
Or (putting on tin foil hat) was Turkey’s wanting to join the EU the reason for the smack down? There are those who want the EU as the accepted currency of oil instead of US dollars.
persiflage @ 263
Basically, the EU has told the Turks; “Thanks, but, No Thanks…” However, the Turks are still a crucial NATO Ally…!!! Stay tuned…!!!
ACLU Obtains Documents Showing Expanded Military Role in National Security Letters
from TalkLeft by Jeralyn
The ACLU has obtained a new set of documents showing the military’s expanded role since the passage of the Patriot Act in obtaining national security letters.
New documents uncovered as a result of an American Civil Liberties Union and New York Civil Liberties Union lawsuit reveal that the Department of Defense secretly issued hundreds of national security letters (NSLs) to obtain private and sensitive records of people within the United States without court approval. A comprehensive analysis of 455 NSLs issued after 9/11 shows that the Defense Department seems to have collaborated with the FBI to circumvent the law, may have overstepped its legal authority to obtain financial and credit records, provided misleading information to Congress, and silenced NSL recipients from speaking out about the records requests, according to the ACLU.
The new documents are available here
RonD @ 245
Thanks, Ron. Saw that.
And Teddy, thanks for this post. It is a puzzle.
At one time, Turkey allowed us to place intermediate range Jupiter missles on their soil, aimed at the USSR…their withdrawal was why the USSR agreed to pull their missles out of Cuba.
Pat Metheny – solo acoustic
CTuttle @ 250
Basketball game broke out on the football field?
This is very interesting and not what I would have expected:
Is Hillary Clinton a “Corporate Democrat?” – Part 3
Night demi!
g’night all.
Sleep well LL.
Loo Hoo. @ 273
You know, I might actually watch something like that…!
*waving to all the leaving sleepy pups*
‘night, LoudounLib!
‘night LL!
RonD @ 271
It certainly got Khrushchev’s attention without needing to pound a shoe on a podium…!!! ;-)
So, Suzanne, I saw upthread that you were going to be celebrating…did you sell your house?
nope, rond – birthday tomorrow
Suzanne @ 267
Before the War (God, it seems sooo long ago) I read a long but interesting paper that made the argument that one unstated reason to attack Iraq was that Iraq had changed the unit of exchange from US$ to the Euro. Other countries that had done or were threatening to do this : Iran and North Korea. I don’t know if it was correct, it might have been the work of a basement-dwelling oddball but it was heavily referenced and full of economist-talk. I did check some of the easier online references and they were in order. Imagine if countries didn’t need to buy US$ to pay for their transactions with other non-US countries. There would be quite an impact on the value of the dollar.
Are anyone having reports of their police being shot or injured? We seem to have an officer hurt on a weekly basis. This morning a female officer was injured in an accident and tonight another was shot. We have officers killed fairly frequently.
Is this just Phoenix or is this common in other areas?
CTuttle @ 280
Many people think the Russians just backed down from Kennedy for no reason-they don’t know the reason their was, in fact, a deal.
peanutbutter @ 274
Steve-AR shared this earlier today. Interesting chart, huh?
CTuttle @ 268
Ah, maybe that’s what was lodged in the “Turkey as member of Big Club” synapse. If there was an armed conflict between the US and Turkey, what would NATO do?
katymine @ 283
I get email alerts from Officer Down in addition to the RSS feeds from their site.
Suzanne @ 284
Uhoh, ya just missed John Dean’s and LS’s, and a dear family friend that I fired up my BBQ for today!!! *g*
Not that I know of Katymine, but I tend not to read crime news.
newdealfarmgrrrlll @ 243
That’s what I’m talking about…And it’s not what you say to Mark Foley.
;>)
A Haaretz op-ed piece on Little Aryan Annie.
-GSD
A litle bday music for Suzanne: Loaded, leather, moonroof
In Maryland, a Microcosm of Debate on Health Bill
from NYT Home Page by ROBERT PEAR
The only member of Maryland’s Congressional delegation to vote against expanding the State Children’s Health Insurance Program is coming under intense pressure to switch his vote.
persiflage @ 285
The decline of the USD is here and now… When the Canadian Loonie is equal, the coming of the Apocalypse is upon us…!!! ;-)
Kevin Hayden @ 292
wow, i’m going to have to let this load up overnight (on dialup) and really listen.. thanks kevin
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..p?id=26390
Taylor Marsh has a lot to say on this topic:
persiflage @ 289
Although, they’re not an original charter member, they have been a full-fledged member since 1949…!!!
Even the WSJ
from TPM Josh Marshall by Steve Benen
How can you tell for sure when the far-right attack machine has gone a little too far over the edge? When the Wall Street Journal editorial page starts criticizing conservatives.
I’d be more impressed if Speaker Pelosi were to deal with the antics of the Bush administration in 2007 than with actions of the Ottomanm Turks in the early 1900’s.
-GSD
Good night everyone…the best of all possible tomorrows to all, and the best of all possible birthdays to Suzanne.
{{{Suzanne}}}
PS: I wish I could buy a little cottage in the redwoods…
Onward.
GSD @ 302
That’s the frame! (One change: 2001-2007)
thanks, rond – i wish you could too!
Sleep well RonD.
Yuck-Topic:
Wide Stance has his Matt Lauer moment on Tuesday.
In his own words…
TexBetsy @ 299
Context is important, what difference does the resolution make… Seriously, it’s another hollow gesture, so if it irks a reliable ally, why try???
Blackwater guards ‘were fired on’
from BBC World
US security firm Blackwater says it has proof guards were fired upon during a deadly shooting in Iraq last month.
TexBetsy @ 298
Which is to expand SCHIP to the Saudi Princes?
I am going to take my sorry lurking body to bed …. see ya all tomorrow
Nite, Katy and RonD!!!
nite katymine
TexBetsy @ 309
What’s the phrase that comes to mind: evidentiary chain of custody?
new thread
TexBetsy @ 269
Thanks for this, TxBetsy.
I had an interesting experience today. There is an Asian family down the hall. The normal language of their home does not appear to be English. They have a daughter who seems to be the most bilingual member of the family. Until today, I have not communicated with any member of that family other than greetings in the hall and elevator. I have to go by their apartment on my way to the laundry. This is what I was doing today when the daughter intercepted me with a homework problem (she often seems to do her homework in the hall rather than in her apartment.)
At first she had a math problem involving arranging numbers. With a little encouragement, half an hour later she had solved that. But then there was some homework that involved writing a newspaper story on a local incident- a warehouse fire. From half a dozen notes in a reporter’s notebook, she was supposed to construct the story. She had to know what a “lead line” is, and also how to write a “headline” and a “summary”, as well as how to identify “facts” (and implicitly, to differentiate between facts and conjecture.) There was even a trick question– to identify the “public official” in the story. Unless Firemen are public officials, there weren’t any. Then she’s supposed to read a one page story and answer questions on it. One of which required that one deduce that the Queen’s court didn’t like Sir Walter Raleigh, so they tried to knock him down by making sure that his American Colony failed. Which required a little inference.
Anyway, I’m pleased that they’re giving assignments like these to 5th graders. Maybe it will help them read the news more intelligently. And maybe even learn to become journalists!
How typical are these assignments at early 5th grade level?
Bob in HI
TexBetsy @ 95
These row-houses have been extensively rennovated and often connected up with a carriage house in the back. They have almost no yard to speak of. His tax appraisal records show that Frost has rennovated the (likely with his own skills for some of the improvements), which he bought in 1990 for $55,000. That has increased his appraisal to about $225,000 for tax purposes. He also bought in an area that has seen tremendous gentrification and safety improvements. That has increased the value of the homes (and taxes) in the area.
So he puts sweat equity and investment in the property and has to pay more taxes. That’s fair and reasonable…. but it’s hard when the family makes $45K a year. It would make a medical emergency , even with INSURANCE, likely to put the family into deep debt.
But to argue that the Frosts “bought the home for $485,000″ as the Weekly Standard has asserted is simply a LIE. Or to claim that the home could sell for even more than $485,000 is simply absurd. That home (located at XXX xxxxxx) that sold for nearly a half million had EXTENSIVE PROFESSIONAL RENOVATIONS, AND that was noted in the tax assessment. It was bought originally in 2000 for $95,000 and the owner made nearly $280K in physical improvements to the property. The appraised value was $400K.
That’s right…appraised at $400K- sold for $485K. Frost’s home is appraised at $225K. A 5 BR/2 BA with about the same sq. footage a block away sold for only $225K.
http://www.trulia.com/property…..e-MD-21231
MAYBE he might get $275-300K for it, if lucky. In fact that’s precisely what other homes even closer to his sold for (some before the real estate bubble burst).
http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/r…..bdivision=
Two “Completely Renovated” properties were auctioned off at $315K and $393K, respectively. But Frost’s home hasn’t undergone anywhere near as much “improvement”.
http://www.alexcooper.com/Real…..02704.html
And one of Malkin’s “informants” asserts that he has a photograph of the Frost’s kitchen which shows a granite countertop. Not only is Malkin Stalkin’ but others have apparently entered the home or taken photos through the window of the Frost home. Turns out that the counters are much cheaper POURED CONCRETE, not Granite, but some self-styled Gestapo agent snooping through the windows of a private residence to take photos might not have realized THAT. Concrete counters can be obtained for $15-30 sq. foot….whereas Granite runs between $50-150 sq./foot. Plus a DIY’er can do all the labor with concrete themselves. Not so with Granite.
(MOD NOTE: Edited to remove address)
Hi. I drop by most every day but rarely comment.. I agree with most of the posts, but I gotta tell ya, that I was APPALLED by this thread!
I’ve got nothing personal against Teddy SanFran and the people who’ve made comments.. BUT:
1. I don’t know why this particular resolution has come before the House.. but i think it’s a real reach to assume it’s Pelosi’s back door exit from Iraq, by destroying US and Turkish relations.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:
2. At best, most of the comments on this thread show a lack of understanding of the culture and History of the Area.
At worst, DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU’RE ADVOCATING THAT CONGRESS DENY A HOLOCAUST FOR THE SAKE OF POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY?!!!!!?
Because that is exactly what the Armenian Genocide was: a Holocaust. Btw, a lot of Greeks and Kurds were killed during the same time.
The Armenian Genocide was used as by the Nazis as a justification when planning to exterminate the Jews.
Once Hitler was asked by a member of his Staff, if there wouldn’t be an international outcry, when the Nazis started to repress the Jews. Hitler replied, “Who remembers the Armenians?”
The Nazis also used it as an example of how to wipe out an entire race of People.
Several people were surprised that the Turks even cared that we were going to call it a Genocide.
Well folks, it’s actually ILLEGAL to even talk about the Genocide in Turkey.
A year or two ago, an internationally known Turkish author had a character that was a survivor of the Holocaust in one of her novels, and she was put on trial for “insulting Turkish ideals.”
Fortunately, she was acquitted. Because, if she would have been found guilty, the mandatory sentence for that Crime is Death.
I do agree with the people that said that US History has it’s own instances of Genocide. I also agree, that we need to stop the idiocy of the current administration and the Iraq War as soon as possible..
But, doe’s that really mean that we should turn a blind eye to human rights abuses?
There are a lot of good things about Turkey, but these are not just problems of the past.
In the 1960’s, the Turkish military invaded Cyprus, and still occupies half the island.
There are other islands of the Turkish coast, where the ethnic Greeks are being mistreated too.
Again, I believe that we need to clean our own House first. But I pray that we have a government some day that actually uses diplomacy to correct human rights violations, rather than trying to bring ‘democracy’ by invading a country.
So, that we can pay attention again to other problems around the world, like Cyprus, Myanmar, Tibet, etc.
Anyway, I don’t mean to rant.. and I’m posting this late enough that I doubt anyone will read it.
I was just shocked that people were willing to ‘dismiss’ a genocide, so we wouldn’t “piss off the Turks.”
Thanks for reading, if ya got this far.
Kevin Hayden @ 172
Kevin, why would you work so hard for an obvious genocide? And put so much BETWEEN the reality, and your work which ends up at CALLIN it genocide? Attaturk was a murdering son of a bitch. . . period . . .
GSD @ 294
Did you catch this part of what she said
COULTER: Yes. That is what Christianity is. We believe the Old Testament, but ours is more like Federal Express. You have to obey laws.
That precisely explains the morality of these Christofacists….they are not answerable to any laws. They break the law…it’s okay…they are “Born Again” with a FedEx routing number to the afterlife!
TexBetsy @ 309
By each other? Betcha one of their vehicles was hit by “friendly fire”.
According to witnesses they were spraying the Square with fire from all directions. And the Military and Iraqi investigators ONLY recovered cartridges that were attributible to the arms Blackwater carried.
Hey MarcInLosAngeles-
Welcome to the Lake. Never seen you before, so I apologize if you’re not new.
We differ here greatly about a great many things. Those differences play out on these pages regularly, and one of the only things the proprietors ask is that the people here are to be respected, whether their opinions are widely held or not.
This will keep you in good stead. But if you go for the throat of a “front-Pager”, all bets are off. Bring your opinions and a little patience and be prepared to back your assertions with some evidence, a few links, whatever. But always it bring WITH RESPECT.
Teddy’s piece begins with a question:
And it ends with a question:
I heard no advocacy whatsoever.
_____________________________
Come back often. We talk about many things.
newtonser:
I’m not new, but I rarely post. Thank you for your comments, I agree almost completly.
However, my point was: There was a lot of discussion on this thread about having Congress drop the wording ‘genocide’ because it would “piss off the Turks.”
That’s what I was referring to, when I said (to everyone, not just Teddy) when I wrote “Do you realize that you’re advocating that Congress deny a Holocaust for the sake of Political Expediency?!?”
I respect Teddy SanFran, and the other folks..but I will speak up when people I respect start to dismiss something as serious as Genocide. Even if it was in the context of our situation in Iraq.
As far as links go, if ya use ‘the google’ you can find plenty of “evidence” if you look up: “armenian genocide,”
“who remembers the armenians?” (for the Hitler quote).
“Insulting Turkishness.” That’s the literal translation of the charges against the Novelist.
Btw, i checked that those links worked before typing this. Fortunately, I was wrong about the death sentence. Sorry to give bad info.
The Novelist’s name is Elif Safak. Here is a quick link to an brief NPR article about her and others:
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..Id=6196764
Again, thanks for what ya said. Cheers.
My guess is the Turks simply raise the fees they charge us for transporting the war materials, etc. We will pay.
From the comments section of Charles’ post on this at my blog:
MarcinLA, I doubt my post will be read either. lol
I know so little about Turkish politics or history that I suprise even myself with this post.
I agree with you that the genocide of the Armenians was a fact and it was brutal and disgusting, and that the Truks are even as we type capable of inhumanities against the ‘others’ in their sphere of manipulation.
Waht concerns me, for we Americans, at this trun in the road is how it will impack the Middle East.
It appears that we Americans can’t do anything in the ME without making a mess. And calling up the genocide right now is a surefire way to drive the Turks into the more radicle Islamic clutches.
Brutal or not the Turkish people are more secular than most in the area. As were the Iraqiis before we invaded. And that slim balance has made dealing with the Turks far more compatible with being more humane.
The few Armenians that I know are gratified to see that Turkey is leaning into a more Western camp, and not being led into the more radicle Islamicist clutches.
But please belive me, I respect your abhorence of the holocost that the Truks whielded against the Armenians ( a truely noble race).
Juan Cole’s thoghts:
http://www.juancole.com/2007/1…..urkey.html
TexBetsy, AND Taylor Marsh:
Sorry, but I think a LOT needs to be done to “jeapordize our mission” in Iraq. We need to get the hell out of there, while the getting is good. The result won’t be pretty, but would Taylor like to explain how keeping the troops there indefinitely, is going to make it better?
Abdullah Gul, the Turkish PM made a good point about their dealing with the PKK and their attacks, when he pointed out that america had crossed oceans to invade a country which had non-existent “terrorists” (my quotes), but was complaining because the Turks are threatening to do it in their back yard.
Invert this, and make it that 28 american troops were killed by Mexican “terrists” in Texas over the past 2 weeks. I think we all know what george bush’s response would have been.
There are even some kneejerks who are talking about “doing” the Turks. This little equation is very simple:
Incirlik = one MORE potential hostage situation, to add to the one that bush has already created for our troops in Iraq.
Hey I believe TSF is not questioning the the 1915-1917 holocaust, but questioning the timing of Pelosi bringing it up, knowing Turkish prickliness (understatement), at this juncture. It’d be like China condeming the Opium Wars in the eve of some important negotiation with the West. at which point, the analytical mind is *right* to question the motive behind the timing. Let’s not get blinded by the bright shiny objects OR horrible historical events, if it means we cannot question our own politicians tactics 100 years later.
Thanks tanbark for the comments and the Juan Cole link.
I’d like to find out how much rent we’re paying for Incirlik, and I’d like to find out if bush agrees to a hefty increase, in order to get the Turks to shut off their tank engines.
???
It occurs to me, that the Turks are a pretty good mine canary for just how little control bush has over the situation there.
Once the Turks decide that his hands are tied, they might just decide that a military presence in and around Kirkuk would be worth telling junion to stick that moldy, rotten, EU membership carrot where the sun don’t shine.
Just the fact that they’ve got several divisions of troops poised on their southeastern border, complete with armored units, is a good indication of the fact that george bush’s ‘nads are firmly in the jaws of a six-inch bench vise, with an increasing number of people ready, willing, and eager, to give the handle another crank.
Hey! If there IS a hefty increase in the rent for Incirlik, I’d like to find out if Pelosi, and the democratic candidates think that’s worthy of becoming a campaign issue. :o)
Bush has already saddled the next president with more chits waiting to be called in, than some gambling junkie with his ass in hock to the mob.
Ok, I’ve just donned my asbetoes suit, so here I go.
I think Pelosi is pushing this as a two-fer.
1. It was genocide.
2. Pissing off the Turks complicates Iraq AND takes any Iran attack off the table.
Think about it.
CTuttle @ 11
She shouldn’t be messing with foreign policy. It isn’t in her portfolio as Speaker.
This is possibly something pushed on her by DLCers who think they can be cute this way to control Dubya. But, they’re getting her in over her head.
OTOH, if she gets into a mess and has to leave the speakership, then there’s some chance a replacement might go for impeachment.
Question is, who might a replacement be? And, would that person go for impeachment?
Shame she may have to step down in the middle of a good run, but maybe it’s best for everyone.
If they are, which I think most people “pondered” when first hearing it then they are pretty stupid. Either that or they wanted to push them away before they invaded anyway (as our ally).
Seems to me most everyone wants to bomb and fight and roll the dice for mo power mo money.
I hope this is not the case that this resolution is little more that a backdoor way to make the war more difficult to run. Before this war started I railed against the administration, because while the goal of removing a murderous regime was laudable, the method was utterly wrong. Invading a nation and occupying it was dangerous, irresponsible, arrogant, and utterly ignorant of history and culture of the region. This move strike me the say way.
If we want to end this war (and I think all of us here do) this is not the way to do it. Defund the war, repeal the authorization, pass a bill that specifically orders the President to bring the troops home, in short, stand up directly for what we believe in. This war was a mistake from the beginning, but picking a fight with a Muslim nation that is currently a US ally is just stupid.
We are also dredging up events that occurred 90 years ago. Events that occurred not long after a period in which our hands are not exactly clean in much the same regard. Now is not the time for this wound to be reopened.