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Hey, lookit everyone: Frank Rich says that Bush is not the only one to blame for the Iraq mess:
As the war has dragged on, it is hard to give Americans en masse a pass. We are too slow to notice, let alone protest, the calamities that have followed the original sin.
Yadda yadda yadda. Well, cry me a river, Frankie.
It’s nice of Frank Rich to say all this, but get a load of how he moves from shifting the blame from Bush to the general public without once stopping to actually examine, in detail, the mainstream press’ role in all of this. He does briefly say that the press failed to do its job, but only in passing, and only when carefully linked to the (then-Republican-controlled) Congress. If Rich can ignore or minimize the media’s role in all of this, he can then ignore his role in helping to get Bush elected in the first place.
But it’s not just that the press failed to “do its job” — that implies a certain passivity, as if they didn’t mean to avoid to catch the baby before it splattered onto the pavement. The reality, and it’s one that pressies like Rich the Token ‘Good-Guy Pundit’ (to use Bob Somerby’s sarcastic term) want so desperately to obscure, is that they cheered when the baby was tossed out the window, jumped out of the way as it fell, and applauded when it hit the pavement. In fact, as Matt Stoller points out, just last month, Richie-poo was viciously attacking those very Democrats who were and are doing their friggin’ damndest to save the baby.
Yeah, yeah, Stars and Stripes did an article and the Washington Post did an article, blah blah blah. Call me when Katie Couric, Brian (Rush Limbaugh’s buddy) Williams and the rest have it as their lead story on the TV evening news. Rich knows full flippin’ well that the majority of Americans get their news not from newspapers — and certainly not from Stars and Stripes — but from drive-time radio and the evening TV news. If something doesn’t show up on either drive-time radio or the evening TV news, it simply didn’t happen as far as most Americans are concerned, as newspapers — even the wondrous New York Times — no longer drive the news cycle.
Wanna see a Good German, Frankie? Look in the freakin’ mirror.
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wooohoo
deux
trois?
tres?quatroand fitz!
A new thread? But I thought everybody split to the old thread? Man, these internests are confusing.
cleter @ 5
Hi everybody….
Yeah, you can get lost in those tubes….
I’ve got two FDL tabs open here, and not multi-tasking very well tonight ;-)
I’m here
I should be working.
You know, it is sad that the people who were yelling at the top of their voices trying to make somebody listen that this Iraq campaign was a huge mistake from the very inception of this ill-fated affair still doesn’t rate as being part of the “general public”….
A-woman, PW. We cannot let these media entities run for cover as their utter failure becomes more and more apparent.
Just stopped in for a quick dip at the lake….
See you later—best wishes fire-pups….
ticktock @ 10
Amen, ticktock! I’m tired of being chopped liver.
One of the worst trends I see is having TV cable news (very often Fox) as background in business waiting rooms. Please, if you are getting an oil change, and Fox News is subverting the audible space, switch it to The Weather Channel and/or complain to management.
And don’t get me started on airports.
All you need to know about Frank Rich is that he is an Imus apologist and no doubt will appear if that all purpose bigot ever gets back on the air
LoudounLib @ 7
It’s so exciting today I just opened my third tab. We’ll see how long I can keep this up till it all comes crashing down.
Sandia Blanca @ 13
Wasn’t McClatchy the only MSM outlet to speak truth to power…???
Certainly the MSM is one group I blame for Iraq.
Something about this comment from Glenn Greenwald, answering a question about his latest column, just bespeaks such amoral irresponsibility on the part of our elected representatives, that’s it beyond the power of words to condemn. Amoral, irresponsible individuals derelict in their sworn duty to the nation (that is, the Constitutional Republic that was so thoughtfully designed to try to raise us up above ‘the law of the jungle’ that Cheney, Bush and The Rule of Corporate Profit are now returning us to by the day, with the blessing of the Pelosi-declared ‘powerless’ Congress) and to its people:
Http://letters.salon.com/opini…..d7cd1.html
See also this helpful overview from Jack Balkin today, re FISA:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..unity.html
I’ve been suspecting the same, but this seeming confirmation just… sinks me.
My suspicions are based on the comparison between H.R. 3773 (the RESTORE Act) and the Protect America Act. Who drafted RESTORE? It’s a re-arrangement of the PAA, not a rewrite. It uses the same key phrases in key places:
I have to believe that the White House or the telecommunications companies re-arranged this language to achieve basically the same ends as the PAA, and John Conyers, Silvestre Reyes, Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer then proceeded to force it through committee as “their” bill. It’s not their bill. [Nancy Pelosi mentioned something in her press conference last Thursday about how the White House didn’t want the (weak) court order provision in the new bill - but the ‘companies’ did… How does she know that? Where were the hearings that brought that information to light?] RESTORE (despite its lack of retroactive immunity) is the White House-drafted PAA, slightly tweaked to allow the same activity, with a bunch of after-the-fact reporting tacked on, that will (if complied with) helpfully itemize for Congress all the violations of the Fourth Amendment-protected privacy rights of Americans that they are knowingly endorsing with this language.
The FISA bill actually drafted by Members of Congress is the Rush Holt/John Tierney Intelligence Committee bill [H.R. 3782] which has been blocked from a hearing or a vote by the Democratic Committee Chairs apparently at the behest of the Speaker. Why?? Glenn Greenwald seems to sum the answer up, as his sources see it.
This is unConstitutional government, in open, obvious, ongoing, vicious action, right before our eyes. We know it, we despise it, and yet we can apparently do nothing to stop it.
The Fourth Amendment bans “unreasonable” searches and seizures, wherever Americans have a reasonable expectation of privacy (in their “persons, houses, papers, and effects” – which, according to our lawless Executive Branch, does not include our personal privacy and right to anonymity if we comment on or surf the internet). Only a warrant issued by a judge upon evidence of probable cause to suspect criminal activity, or – under FISA and its secret, IC-serving court – to suspect the presence of a foreign power’s agent, opens the door to legal searches and seizures of the “persons, houses, papers, and effects” of individuals in America – because only those are deemed “reasonable” Judicial Branch-checked exercises of the police powers of the government, under the Fourth Amendment.
The PAA and RESTORE Act are both full of “reasonable” qualifiers: for the design of the procedures to be used to conduct unreasonable searches of our ‘papers and effects’; for the presumed location of those whose ‘papers and effects’ may be unreasonably searched, etc.
Is such a “reasonable belief” of the involvement of mostly (or at least some) non-U.S. persons overseas (thus beyond the reach of FISA) enough for a related search and/or seizure into the communications of some U.S. persons in America – [because ‘unavoidably’ conducted in connection with the non-probable-cause “basket warrant” approved (as to “reasonable” programming design only) by the FISCourt for surveillance “directed at” those non-U.S. persons “reasonably believed” to be located outside the U.S.] – to somehow suddenly be deemed a “reasonable” search of said (known or unknown) U.S. persons under the Fourth Amendment?
The RESTORE Act (like the PAA) tries to pretend it is, and to make it the semi-permanent law of the land – and Nancy Pelosi is greasing the skids to get this unConstitutional bill (and no other House version) passed, exactly the way she greased the skids with the PAA in August, to (qualified because he wants even more) approval from the likes of Fred Hiatt. Why???
And if we disagree with this twisted, corrupt interpretation of our right to be left unmolested, as individual Americans, by this unwarranted, secret corporate/government invasion of our privacy? Well, Congress says we can stuff it:
Http://judiciary.house.gov/Med…..73FISA.pdf
In other words, Congress is agreeing with its King (with regard to the prospective immunity that’s in the temporary PAA and looming RESTORE Act, never mind the retroactive immunity provision that would thoroughly seal the blatantly illegal deal) and saying: ‘We know that the PAA/RESTORE Act is unConstitutional on its face, we don’t want to try to amend the Constitution, so we’ll just cut the Judicial Branch entirely out of the picture here, so that there’s no chance of being told of our misdeeds, and being forced to “re-Constitutionalize” them in future.’
We cannot let this happen.
Now, on 60 Minutes, Erik Prince is being interviewed by some salty, blonde bombshell who is performing figurative felatio on him when asking questions. She is throwing one softball after another to this fanactic. 60 Minutes is a joke. Will someone in the media please call these jokers out. What a fluff piece. The questions were wrote by the Bushies. I am fucking pissed.
Yeah, Frankie doesn’t get many points for his late season epiphany. Given that he’s just one of many who seem to believe that the only true “experts” on the war are those who were fer it before they were agin it, he can go p*ss up a rope.
It’s a frickin’ propoganda movie. She is Michelle Phiffer in that Redford movie. “Do you regret the people dying–do you want to see anyone die” Prince: “No.” Cut to ticking stopwatch. Pathetic.
Excuse me, buddy boy, but no one I know was and is silent. We even protested going into Afghanistan. We held loud marches to make certain you heard our message. You ignored us. You knew. Don’t blame those of us who have knocked on your door, cried out to you, held up signs, met weekly for years, let our congress people know, wrote newspaper articles. You knew but you loved the taste of blood and power. All those who advocated this grotesque war policy are war criminals. Own up to your own heinous deeds. You knew so well that you even called us unAmerican.
Another major weather Sunday night here. We have rotations and we are heading for the shelter. Should be over in 1/2 hour or so. Oh hummm.
OKK, did you know that Mr Dean is back in the Book Salon thread and is answering questions from earlier?
Another bullshit piece by 60 Minutes about the “other Gitmo” Supermax.
Get Tough @ 20
I’ll get it in one hour. Thanks for the heads up.
Mods, sorry for the double post :-(
LoudounLib @ 29
Perhaps you should close a tab? (ducking)
Millineryman @ 30
I was just thinking that ;-)
katherine Graham Cracker @ 15
I’d be willing to bet so will an awful lot of Dem politicians. Lieberman will certainly guest, maybe Kerry, Biden, lots of Dems. At one time, when Lieberman lost the primary, Imus thought out loud about banning Dems from guesting on his show ‘cuz Lieberman was his guy, but he said he probly couldn’t do that because that would be most of his guests!
Thanks for this.
Saves me the trouble of commenting all over the fucking place about how FUCKING ARROGANT THESE PUNDITS BE!
‘CAN NO ONE RID ME OF THIS NATTERING OF NABOBS!’
Frank’s just another highly paid tool of the uber-rich and their fucktard ‘news industry’.
Shorter Form: Frank Rich…
I’ve shit him.
I like his columns. So there.
Pow Wow – I really want to call you Ms (or Mr.) Wow, most days.
Although I support and have contributed to Congresswman Allen of Maine campaign against Sen. Collins, I left his FDL visit last week feeling a strong sense of denial on his part of just how far and how seriously adrift even so called progressives congresscritters are right now.
Can you tell me what tack you think we should take at this point with the FISA action? Should we just ask that congress do nothing and allow everything on the books to expire?
Eureka Springs @ 35
ES- Tom Allen certainly did side step all of the questions related to that point, didn’t he? I found that very disappointing, to say the least. I was scratching my head, wondering why he chose not to respond.
Good press bad press is beside the point. The fact is that we – you, me and every freaking person in this country KNOWS, not thinks, not guesses, we KNOW that we torture.
Major stories have come up since Abu Graib telling us that we are torturing. What’s happened at each turn? The American people yawned.
When Alberto Gonzales all but smirked as he winked and nodded his way through congressional hearings, he knew that we KNOW and he knew we don’t care.
George Bush like Fredo knows we know and he knows we don’t care. So he can say “We don’t torture” and nobody cares.
Why shouldn’t Frank Rich jump over the head of the press and go to the source – the people who are supposed to care about what our nation does in our name but in fact do not.
By what definition then are we NOT good Germans? And how does his not blaming the press enough, make Frank Rich’s point less?
katherine Graham Cracker @ 15
The MSM is saturating the air we breathe with subtle, thinly veiled, anti-Caucasian messages.
Better the bigots we know.
paulo @ 37
ding
and guess what, even if we don’t know it gonna happen.
“Wanna see a Good German, Frankie? Look in the freakin’ mirror.”
Good point.
Yet another fraud exposed by the touchstone of 9/11. They just keep coming.
Right on, Phoenix Woman! You tell it like it is and I appreciate it. Thank You!
VG, I don’t know why but his silence on those questions was deafening to me. Perhaps because he stayed around long enough for me to dare and ask.
Stop the presses! “Pelosi: I would not give Congress high marks on ending the war.”
http://thehill.com/leading-the…..10-14.html
Be still my beating heart. What was her first clue? Or has she yet to get one?
The article does not say why she didn’t do more, just the standard rationale that the Dems can’t break a filibuster. Nothing about making Republicans pay for their obstructionism or Bush Dog Democrats for that matter.
=Eureka Springs @ 41
are you sure his name wasn’t Bob Weaver?
Eureka @ 35 -
That course of action (just letting the PAA expire) is certainly a preferable course for me than letting this RESTORE Act slide through. No action would leave the Judicial Branch in the picture, and avoid further, deliberate violations of the Constitution on the part of Congress.
In the present ‘atmosphere,’ however, and because Congress has apparently let the Executive Branch go hog-wild with wholesale changes to the infrastructure of intelligence collection, without making sure they remained constrained by the Constitution, the Rush Holt bill [H.R. 3782] may be the necessary “realistic” substitute for no action at all.
The Holt bill also appears to allow the DNI McConnell-sought blanket, fishing expedition, sort of monitoring – based in the U.S. – of a communications network, but it definitely works harder at narrowly tailoring that permission to explicitly foreign traffic (while stil allowing for the possibility of American traffic to be intermingled therein, and thus surveilled without a probable cause warrant). I’d want to see new, more stringent minimization procedures also included in the Holt bill.
But Holt takes care of the foreign-to-foreign in the U.S. (alleged) loophole, and has other actual improvements over the pre-PAA situation. And it uses its own language, fully repealing the PAA, and starting fresh.
We need the (amended in parts) Holt bill, or nothing, if we want to honor the Fourth Amendment, as far as I’ve deduced. I really hope we’ll get more careful scrutiny of the RESTORE Act from the likes of Glenn Greenwald soon, because I think the retroactive immunity debate has somewhat overshadowed its dangerous provisions.
BTW there is a great photo up at HuffPo at the moment about exiting GOPers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
I started reading Rich’s columns about three years ago and in terms of excoriating the Bush machine in a mainstream media outlet, I would give him 7-8 on a scale of 0 to 10. He is originally a theater critic. I think that positioned him to see what we have been facing: a media farce played out with real people dying offstage. Like Krugman he reads and links to Media Matters and other blogs.
What is this “We”? Mr. Rich, do you have a frog in your pocket? People have opposed this Occupation/Genocide from the beginning. I did not see “Republican” in this article. But it is their War, except some of the Democrats seem to want part of it, such as Hillary Clinton.
As I said previously, Rich seems to want to say “Everybody is wrong.” That is the new Beltway Weenie revisionist history. Rich has done good work in the past, but to fight against war, you have to fight against war. There were some folks at MoveOn.org who are not weenies. But Rich did not approve. I cherish all my fellow juvenile left-wingers, who do what they can to fight against THE REPUBLICAN WAR.
Hugh @ 45
Fromthe article you linked
snip
Nacchio’s account, which places the NSA proposal at a meeting on Feb. 27, 2001, suggests that the Bush administration was seeking to enlist telecommunications firms in programs without court oversight before the terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon.
snip
February 27, 2001 was the SOTUS.–never mind–I was wrong
Thank you very much, pow wow.
He’s another one of the I’m really angry about what’s gone on the last 7 years but am perfectly willing to pretend I don’t understand the root of it all people.
OT
Another journalist is killed in Iraq — shot at close range
Washington Post Correspondent Dies in Iraq
A veteran Washington Post special correspondent was shot to death Sunday in southwest Baghdad while on assignment, the first reporter for the newspaper to be killed during the Iraq war.
Let me tell you about the general public in Montreal, who walked to protest against the looming, and announced Iraq war. On one truly cold february sunday, 250,000 of this generally public crowd let this administration know loud and clear that this rush to a massacre was unacceptable. That’s one in eight citizens of the greater Montreal area.
I blame the corporate media way before I look towards the masses.
oh wow PW – you nailed his ass but good….but didn’t richie-poo raise some questions after the run-up to the war?
Eureka Springs @ 41
I also have given $ to Allen. He also sidestepped all of my questions wherein I was trying to get a feel for how Mainers view Collins. He does have a very solid voting record in the house, so I am certainly not writing him off. It seemed that most of his answers were more or less canned responses, like a campaign opportunity, rather than addressing the meat of the questions.
The best (kindest) explanation I could come up was that he was being very cautious so as not to say something that could be used against him by his political enemies, bandied about on the internet and so forth. Lance Dutson of the Collins campaign has pretty regularly mis-represented statements and events re: the senate race.
raven @ 26
I hear they have delicious meal plans for the tenants.
Eepah.
-GSD
Don’t worry about the media. After an 8 year hiatus they will be hankering to get back to rummaging through pantie drawers and 35 year old legal opinions and business and they’ll hold the Democratic President accountable for the mess they made in America after one week in office.
-GSD
forgive ot. new egr post after long silence I can speak thank you all who are there for me
Elliott @ 51
Would be a ‘coincidence’ unless this particular reporter was actually speaking the truth.
Out for the night. Thank you all for the love and support.
Phoenix Woman–Do you read Frank Rich regularly? He’s not faultless, but in general his columns have been excellent over the last several years. He is one of the few mainstream columnists who has had the courage to expose not only particular examples of criminality and deception of the Bush administration, but he has also often been able to tie seemingly unconnected items together to show that these acts are part of a concerted effort to circumvent the Constitution. Token or not he HAS been the “good guy” pundit. Of course you can criticize him in regard to what he has written about Gore or anything else, but it’s bizarre to criticize this particular column by implying that it is somehow meant to shift blame off himself and the mainstream press and onto the US public. I think Rich’s point is valid–this war won’t end until more people speak up. Obviously, you and I suppose most of your acquaintances have been vocal for a long time, but you can type till your fingers bleed and things won’t change until more Americans stop behaving like “good germans”. I think the analogy is excellent and I think your outrage in this instance is really counter-productive and short sighted. To say that Rich (or “Frankie” as you cleverly called him) is a “good German” is childish. Makes me wonder if these postings (and comments) aren’t really just some kind of circle jerk. From reading the comments that have been posted already it kind of feels that way. I suppose I’ll get jumped on for this post as well. predictable
aReader @ 14
There’s a restaurant up the road that makes an excellent ruben but…….the owner runs faux noise, apparently from the time it opens ’til closing. The last time I was in I asked if the channel could be changed and was told by the counter person that that was the station the owner wanted on.
His eatery, his idjit box, his choices. My money, my choice……..haven’t been back since. Miss the rubens; don’t miss the heartburn of being forced to listen that tripe.
egregious @ 56
here for you always…
Hey pups – John Dean just answered my question!
I’m not gonna wash my screen for a week..
kirk murphy @ 62
Just saw that in my other FDL tab. W00t!
egregious @ 57
Frank Rich has been VERY critical of this administration. He was one of only a few journalists who wrote honestly criticizing this war and all the other egregious things going on in this administration. I didn’t like that he criticized the MoveOn ad but he has been right on with his articles as well as his newest book.
egregious @ 57
Sorry, typing in the dark. I read your link; you’ve touched me like the Catcher in the Rye.
is there a tag open?
MS
I just read your comments and agree wholeheartedly with you. Frank Rich does not deserve this acrimony. He really is one of the good guys, Phoenix Woman. I look forward to reading his column each week. Save your anger for those who support this regime. And let’s all become more active.
Valley Girl @ 54
High-profile candidates like Allen must know that their visits here will be monitored and mined for gaffes or worse: pandering. *g* They are probably warned away by the same Rahm Emanuel who discourages them from appearing with Colbert.
But I too worry that the chats, especially return visits, often become rote repetition of talking points. Contrast the caution of Allen and McNerney with Randi Scheurer, who sounds just like a firepup — because she IS just like a firepup!
Before 9/11???
I just started reading Greenwald’s book and in
today’s Salon he refers to the claim.
Why don’t we put this smoking gun ‘on the table’?
Just when you think things couldn’t go any lower, you realise we’re falling down an endless chasm.
Asking a candidate, sitting congressman or not, to comment on the problems with secrecy in our Government and the damages we are experience because of it doesn’t warrant no reply at all. The timing (well before he left and a late quiet point in the visit) and blatant skipping of several commenters who agreed with the point I made… Well it was both obvious and disappointing. Perhaps no reply was better than what he thought..)
FYI, Let the Siunshine in upstairs
Lower expectations? If we go any lower we’ll be in negative territory.
Rice opens shuttle diplomacy in Mideast
Secretary of State seeks to lower expectations
moose @ 70
The problem with the claim is that it’s being made by a convicted securities-insider-trading felon as part of his appeal. He doesn’t have clean hands, and this appeal will be discounted by TradMed and the right.
Personally, I absolutely believe him, but he will be easy to discredit, I imagine.
paulo @ 36
Jeebus. Let’s get serious here. Rich has spanked the people who haven’t been Good Germans — the millions of members of MoveOn, like ME — for example, who’ve been protesting since before the war that the war was wrong.
I put in on the average 40 hours a week last year, UNPAID, to try and elect both local politicians and members of Congress, who would change the course of this ware.
The previous three years I averaged 20-30 hours a week doing the same, surely earning a file with the feds for the protests I attended and the photos I’ve taken. People like me have been at this for YEARS now, since 2001, and Frank Rich has the audacity to lump us in with the average American, while taking pot shots at us as activists?
F*ck that noise. Rich needs to take a much harder look at why he wasn’t holding sign in any protest rally or why he wasn’t writing about the marches we’ve held or the GOTV efforts we’ve made to try and stop this debacle. Fair and balanced my ass; the media can stop hiding behind that useless canard, and that includes Rich.
Yea right Rich is one of the good guys:
“May 2006: When An Inconvenient Truth was released, Frank Rich mocked it in the New York Times, than ran off to the Imus show, where he said it was like one of those “good-for-you high school movies.” In both forums, he mocked Gore as a phony.
Of course, this was nothing new for Rich. In the fall of 2002, when Gore warned against going to war with Iraq, Rich wrote a column which basically lied about things Gore had said —and mocked him as a phony.
In September 1999, Rich pretended that Gore wouldn’t say what he thought about teaching evolution. Rich: “[W]ho would have thought the inventor of the Internet would believe that the Earth was invented in seven days?” Yes —that is what he said.”
From http://www.dailyhowler.com/
Spend just one hour a day for the next 6 months or so re-reading the archives created by Bob Somerby at The Daily Howler documenting all the scribes who have made it possible for us to be rules by fools. Rich is one of them.
Rayne, how did Rich “spank” activists? Seriously, I don’t understand your comment. By criticizing one particular action that was taken by MoveOn–is that it? I’m impressed and heartened by your personal effort to change things, but I don’t really think Frank Rich is interested in attacking you personally. Your work is valuable, but thank god Frank Rich isn’t writing articles about the marches you’ve attended or your GOTV efforts–as essential (sincerely) as they are. I’m sure you’d like to read about yourself, but it doesn’t sound that compelling to me. Frank Rich has a unique voice and I think he provides an extremely valuable service. Do you really think that his time would be better spent standing next to you at a protest rally? But I agree–that really was audacious of him to lump you in with average Americans.
Eureka Springs @ 11
Thanks, ES!
MS says:
“Frank Rich has a unique voice and I think he provides an extremely valuable service.”
Yea to the RNC, they love “Dem” pundits who trash Dems.
And:
“-that really was audacious of him…”
MS, you need to angry brother or we’re all cooked. Hell, we’re half marinated already!
paulo @ 36
The question is:
How much coverage did each of those get, in the places where most Americans are likely to hear and see it? Compared to, say, Anna Nicole Smith or Paris Hilton or Britney Spears?
And it’s worse online, in many respects.
The current story being front-paged by both AOL and Yahoo this evening? A bogus “Dems diss NASCAR” story. Meanwhile, there are major developments in the Duke Cunningham/Mitchell Wade/MZM case, but don’t expect to see AOL or Yahoo front-page them.
Hugh @ 42
power pantsuit power pantsuit with a nice something or other maybe a flower in the lapel and cafeteria priveleges but no i wouldn’t count on congress too too much for ending the war today’s special is something white people eat like frank rich yum
MS,
You’re right. Frank Rich’s recent columns have been pretty good about the Current Occupant.
But in his dishonest attacks on Gore leading up to the 2000 election, he sided with his “buddies” in his circumscribed little provincial orbit and helped mightily put The Decider in the White House. Ditto for Maureen Dowd.
Don’t believe me? Click on Phoenix Woman’s links to Bob Somerby’s “The Daily Howler.” And pay attention to what Somerby has to say.
Mz. Hamsher, I LOVE it when you go all New York on some poor putz’s claim to some lil piece of turd they claim as their own!
Whadayameen whadayameen alrightallready and END OF STORY!!!!!
You rawhk, Mz. Hamsher, on this one. Nicely done, and eff them them all them effin effer’s. ;-)
raven @ 33
I agree with Raven. There was a time when about the only writers in the traditional media giving voice to criticism of cheney/bush were Frank Rich and Paul Krugman, and I was very glad to see their work. In other columns Rich has carefully described the weakness of the media and how it allowed itself to be used by the forces of evil. In this column he’s saying something close to what Naomi Wolf was saying a few days ago and what Selise quoted from a description of German quietness as Hitler grew- he’s saying we- meaning a whole lot of Americans including me- need to do lots more to stop the crimes of cheney/bush. Okay, he’s not saying quite that way, but his column gets the message across if you are willing to look for it.
larue @ 83
I completely agree that Jane rocks, but thought you might like to know this post was written by Phoenix Woman.
ADM @ 16
Back in the day, ONE 500 mics was all we could/should handle.
By a third one, medical help was essential.
Respect the tabs!!! ;-)
Why, of all people, are you attacking Frank Rich?
…because of his 2007 award from GLAAD?
…because he has been an outspoken critic of the war since the very beginning?
this is really just silly. is this productive at all? aren’t we trying to build a movement? Interesting that the only criticism I’ve seen that rivals yours in its contemptuousness and idiocy comes from Bill O’ Reilly.
Your reaction seems to stem from your feelings that his article is somehow implicating you, that you are to blame, that you watched from the sidelines and were deceived or worse. The NYTimes is not speaking to you. While there are many Americans who fought and continue to fight against Bush’s imperialistic tendencies (God save your self-righteous soul), there are many Americans, Americans who read the NYTimes, who do not, and who sit back and let these insane times wash over them.
nevermind. this is pointless. I apologize for attacking you. I like this site, I like your work, but it just upsets me to see this. respectively…
FWIW, the “salty blonde bombshell” interviewing Eric Prince of Blackwater on 60 Minutes was Lara Logan. One more journo gone to the dark side. But she’s no Baba Wawa, she couldn’t make him cry.
PW, we must be thinking of two entirely different guys named Frank Rich because my Frank Rich is wonderful. I’m stunned by your take on him. I think it’s the only time I’ve disagreed with you.
Frank Rich was a complete asshole as a theater critic.
I have to admit that I look forward to reading his columns.
However, I have to disagree with his premise. I remember a demonstration in New York in February 2003 that was as large
as any one I had ever seen …and that includes the ‘68 Republican
convention in Chicago. And it was all but ignored by the press.
There were, quite possibly a million people there with speeches by Angela Davis (!) Danny Glover and others and there was almost non-existant coverage of this. How different might things have been if there were an overhead shot of the giant crowd on the front page of the Times! But that didn’t happen. This march was also coordinated on the internet with others all around the world…that, in itselft was notable, but except for scattered coverage of marches in Rome and London, the main point of worldwide opposition organized for one of the first times on the World Wide Net was also ignored.
THIS was disgraceful. So AMEN to Phoenix Woman for telling Frank Rich to look at himself.
For MS at 77 and catastrophist at 87 –
Read this exchange and post from earlier this summer at FireDogLake.
Stop lying to yourselves.
And Frank Rich needs to stop lying to himself, too. Right now he has a terrible batting average: one post against MoveOn, one post against the American public, and not one in criticism of the media’s complicity in this war.
Is the Media a LOT to blame for this mess? Yes! But — the American people are, too. In fact, *I* have called Americans “Good Germans” for 5 years. They were, too — and still are.
Remember “Don’t worry — just shop, shop, shop”? Did Americans do it? Sure. Sad to say, the vast majority of Americans are like lemmings — they do what they think MOST other Americans will do. (Are you surprised that when Hillary goes slightly ahead, she suddenly goes WAY ahead? I’m not.)
And still — at this point! — the vast majority of Americans get their news from teevees. If I have heard it once, I have heard it 100 times: “What are blogs? That computer stuff is weird and confusing!” And these are people who HAVE computers! They apparently use them for emails and little else.
I am sad to say that the vast majority of Americans haven’t come nearly as far as they should have. And that is why Hillary seems too backwards. She knows. And is campaigning to it.
I agree with MS and Griffin. I think it is grotesquely unfair to criticize Frank Rich, who has been one of the rare persistent voices both against the Bush gang’s handling of the war and of the media’s complicity in it. He literally wrote the book on it: “The Greatest Story Ever Sold: The Decline and Fall of Truth from 9/11 to Katrina”, and he has hammered away at this in virtually every column for the past four years. Is this unwarranted attack another unfortunate example of the left eating its own children?
PW, spot on!
The war in Iraq will end when the Iraqis—aided by invading Iranians and possibly Syrians—chase us off their rooftops as we try to clamber up into hovering helicopters.
Frank Rich is basically a good guy, but like everyone he sometimes comes up short. Like it or not he was right about the Betray Us ad, not because Petraeus didn’t fudge the facts, but because it took attention away from those facts.
As for Gore, I didn’t see Rich as opposing Gore so much as opposing his tactics and his campaign which was much less effective than it could have been. As for Gore, he’s come out smelling so much like a rose, we forget he chose Lieberman as his running mate, not an act of someone who wanted to be president and not something that makes one inclined to trust his judgment.
When your job is to come up with a weekly column it is inevitable not every one will be a gem. Blaming the American people generally for our problems misplaces the blame just as I think it unfair to blame Germans for Hitler. Assholes come to power and resistance requires more courage than most of us have. Don’t forget our little number on Vietnam. Whose fault was that?
The system obviously hasn’t worked in some time. The question is what, if anything, we can we do about it.
I don’t agree with the post’s assessment. Rather than take it personally (individually or as a group of like-minded people), I saw this as a call to action. I’m old enough to remember the race equality and Vietnam marches. I have seen relatively few of these opposed to the Iraq war and those that I have seen are sparsely attended. Citizen’s, all of us myself included, that see this as not just a debacle but as a moral outrage, need to do more to change what is happening. Instead, too many wait for a leader to emerge who will correct this. We’ll cheer him when he does but in the meantime we’ll generally just grouse. This is an overly general statement that will be recieved negatively by the many people who have actively agitated for change. But I think as a general statement there is much truth to it. 70% of Americans are against this war yet there are not driven to real action as a group. Rich, I think, is saying we need to and I agree with that assessment.
Frank Rich did write an entire book about how the media got the war wrong, didn’t he, and was manipulated by the administration?
I have been listening to Rich’s book and it is a detailed condemnation of the media’s complicity in all the disasters of this administration. I have been reading Rich’s columns for years – he is one of the good guys IMO. I think we should view his call for citizen action in a macro, not micro, sense. We all know that if the draft were in place, there would be larger protests and other citizen reactions to Iraq *present company excluded*. Probably anyone who reads this post has been active in his/her dissent.
GSD @ 56
Bingo.
Also perfect timing for not having any money to spend since the Republican sicko’s spent it all on bombs and billions of lost dollars that will have made it into Blackwater and HallyBerton pockets.
Japandrew @ 46
I also read Frank Rich. He’s been consistently and vehemently outspoken against the Iraq fiasco and against the Bush/Cheney administration. He’s been waging the good fight for years. This column is off-target when it admonishes Frank Rich to “look in the mirror.” Save your blogo-rage for someone who has earned it.
pow wow @ 19
don’t know if you’ll see this pow-wow, but wanted to let you know that i called the speaker’s office to ask them to confirm or deny if the holt/tierney bill was being blocked at the request of the speaker. after much round-and-round (you’ll have to ask hoyer’s office about that, you’ll have to leave a message on the voice mail, you’ll have to send an email to the generic address, …) i was finally told, “We can’t give you an answer to that question.” Not, “we don’t have an answer to give you.” I was not allowed to speak to anyone who might be willing to give me the answer to the question – in fact, i was never told that they didn’t have the answer – only that they couldn’t give it to me.
i’m pissed, pissed, pissed.
it’s bad enough that they do stuff we don’t like. but they should AT LEAST be willing to let us know what they are doing.
can someone please tell me why they think pelosi is a good speaker? i’ll make it easier – why would anyone think she’s an acceptable speaker? i don’t get it… we all agree that hoyer and emanuel suck – why not pelosi too?
Gaaaaah! I cannot even scream intelligibly about this anymore!!
Eureka Springs @ 103
hi ES.
sorta looking like what happened just before august recess wasn’t really about being rushed…. that was just a convenient excuse.
i wish someone would explain to me how i’m all wrong about this. :(
Wow, selise @ 102. How telling is that. You got ‘em good – right where it hurts. They know damn well what’s going on, but they didn’t figure anyone would call them on it. Excellent job.
“Open, honest” government, my eye, Nancy Pelosi. Corporate servants is what these people holding our power in our Congress have reduced themselves to. They sell us out for pennies on OUR dollar. They are in service to the Rule of Corporate Profit – as is the Executive Branch – and will fiercely resist only those efforts that threaten the life of leisure they’ve constructed for themselves by putting political-faction loyalty before country. Just the way the Founders predicted such factions would harm the Republic. To these craven, self-serving individuals, our Constitution is but a distant memory, not worth a backward glance or the price of the parchment it’s written on.
Money. Privilege. Status. Power. Liberty be damned.
But not for much longer. Their race is run, whether they care to recognize it or not. We may be getting back nothing but a depleted, ransacked, mortgaged treasury and an international reputation akin to some of the worst tyrants in history, but get back our Congress we will. We owe it to the authors of our Constitution, and to the cause of liberty. Just a small reminder, powers that be, that there are a lot more of us out here, than there are of you in Washington, D.C.
pow wow @ 105
amen to that.
no matter how long it takes.
and history will not look kindly on those who fought against open government and a free society.