Why do we have to pay so much more for healthy food (fruits, veggies, whole grains, and safe dairy/poultry/fish/meat) when junk food is so cheap?
Why do we have of go out of our way – and pay extra – for fresh food without added chemicals?
At the ice cream shop, they charge extra for fudge sauce.
You don’t have to pay extra to get your two scoops of french vanilla “fudge-free”.
Why do you have to pay more to get two gallons of milk “hormone free” or “pesticide free”?
Because – of course – the Beltway says so.
To clean up our plates, our Federal pols would have to do some belt-tightening: they’d have to step away from the gravy train of bribes contributions from Cargill, ADM, BigPesticide, and BigAg.
Yeah, right.
Since they’ll never do that, we’ll have to drag ‘em away by their hind trotters.
Messy business – but worth the fight.
Here’s why. The most enduring Federal investment in our farmland, food security, and farm families is known as ta-da The Farm Bill – TFB to its pals.
The Farm Bill touches all aspects of our lives: what we eat, where we live, and how long we live.
In the days and weeks to come, I’ll be exploring TFB’s massive impact on our lives and what we can do about it. We’ll look at how this one bill – and the hundreds of billions it sluices into corporate agriculture – weaves a powerful spell over the Air, Fire, Water, and Earth in all of our lives.
And we’ll learn how to break the spell and invoke protection for our families, pets, fields, rivers, and skies.
But before that piece of magic, we have some preparation.
We’ll start with an overview of TFB.
Ever since 1933, we the taxpayers have been paying farmers to take care of America’s lands – and America’s food security – while they took care of their own families.
A good idea – then and now.
In the 1930′s one in four Americans lived on farms. Today only one in 70 does. . .and only around one-tenth of them live on full-time commercial farms.
Yet almost half the Continental US is comprised of farmland.
And all of every American is comprised of someone who must eat – or perish.
Nearly three-quarters of a century after FDR’s first Farm Bill, we Americans have compelling reasons to invest in our food security and our nation’s lands.
And we have even more compelling reasons to stop pissing away Farm Bill Federal dollars – our Federal dollars – as subsidies to:
Cargill [America's second largest private company - they try harder for our "free-market" subsidies]
the price-fixing cartel known as Archer Daniels Midland,
the vertically integrated tumor producers known as BigPesticide/Ag Pharma,
the factory hog farms dumping pig shit in our drinking water and rivers,
and a host of other tapeworms on the body politic which have crept up the orifice of the Money Party and infested the body of the Farm Bill over the last few decades.
Hey – I’m all for aid to seniors. Social Security just isn’t enough for many seniors.
But this is over the top:
James R. Cargill, in Forbes’ list of richest Americans with a net worth of $1.5 billion, is the 79-year-old grandson of the founder of Cargill, William R. Cargill. James R. Cargill inherited this wealth. The family no longer runs the company but is thought to own about 90% of the stock. [2]
[snip]
Political contributions
Warren R. Staley, Chairman of Cargill, is a Bush Ranger having raised at least $200,000 for Bush in the 2004 presidential election. [3]
Cargill gave $223,000 to federal candidates in the 2006 election through its political action committee – 21% to Democrats and 78% to Republicans. [4]
Lobbying:
In a weekly review of lobbying in various industries The Hill said, “Privately held Cargill is a behemoth in ag circles. The company’s revenues nearly reached $63 billion in 2004. That left plenty of money to lobby. The company spent $240,000 in the first part of 2004 to lobby on such things as the Clean Air Act, the energy bill and corporate tax modifications.” “Business & Lobbying“, The Hill, December 8, 2004.
The company spent $400,000 for lobbying in 2006. $100,000 went to two lobbying firms with the remainder being spent using in-house lobbyists.[5]
Wow – $63 billion in revenues – $57 billion of the revenues (before whatever the privately-held costs are) for the Cargill family. The vast majority from our heavily subsidized Industrial Ag.
On a lobbying investment of $400,000… plus at least $450,000 in reach-around for the Bush, Rethugs, and slect (Ag Committee) Dems.
So for every dollar Cargill spends massaging the Bushies and Congress…
Almost 75,000 dollars of revenue come in – the vast majority floated in on Federal subsidies to Commodity AG (crop subsidies); fossil fuel (used in fertilizer/farm equipment/transport); the ethanol scam (net energy-loss); and the Federally subsidized barge canals AKA the Mississippi and Ohio River basins (Corps of Engineers – oh, and the Ninth Ward).
Where can we sign up for almost $75,000 revenue for every buck our business invests?
Oh – that’s right – The Farm Bill.
American agriculture depends on massive fossil fuel inputs for diesel, fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides. This core requirement of industrial agriculture allows TFB to directly impact US energy use – and adds to the demand for imported fuels to fire US Big Ag policies. TFB’s impact on American agriculture is so massive that the Bill literally affects Air, Fire, Water, and Earth for hundreds of millions of Americans.
TFB is one of the Mothers of All Compromise. TFB directs massive Federal subsidies to several different purposes (Food Stamps, school lunches, Industrial Ag, Export Ag, land conservation) with very different constituencies. Just like the Pentagon nudges useless weapons projects through Congress by scattering defense war plants across key Congressional districts, TFB has a village of recipients who benefit from all that Federal juice.
And – just like other worthy New Deal and/or Progressive Era programs – TFB was diverted and perverted by the same megacorps it was built to defeat.
Of course, parts of the TFB do great things for the poorest Americans. Even before the Bushies, Food Stamps and Federally subsidized school lunch programs saved young minds and lives: with Bush’s Bust looming, the programs are even more precious.
TFB’s “Title IV” – the Nutrition Programs – include food stamps, emergency food assistance, school lunches, Women, Infant and Children Program (WIC) and the Farmers Market Nutrition Program. These programs take up nearly half (48.4%) of total TFB spending, and rightly so – they serve the neediest in our society.
Even here, the programs are perverted, skewed so that purchase decisions are best for industry, not Americans. Thus the foodstuffs directly purchased by Federal TItle IV dollars and provided as US Govt food assistance are high-calorie industrial foods and processed foods: the worst possible food choices for low-income Americans, seniors, and Native Americans already dying from diet-induced obesity and Type II diabetes.
TFB’s “Title I” – the Commodity Programs – hides the biggest prizes for the megacorps and Big Ag. Title I sucks up one-third (33.2%) of TFB money. The direct support payments for just five crops: cotton, corn, rice, wheat, and soybeans – amounted to nineteen billion dollars in 2006 (or 92% of the commodity crop payments under Title I). And – just the rest of our winner-take-all Federal programs under the Bushies – the big boys at the top get the goodies:
According to the Congressional Research Service, 84 percent of commodity support spending goes to the production of just five crops: corn, cotton, wheat, rice, and soybeans. Half of that money currently goes to just seven states that produce most of those commodities. The richest ten percent of farm-subsidy recipients (many of whom are corporations and absentee landowners who can hardly be classified as “actively engaged ” in growing crops) take in more than two-thirds of those payments.
A few other broad brushstrokes:
* Almost 50 percent of all commodity subsidies went to 5 percent of eligible farmers in 2005.
* Subsidies help the largest farms to acquire the best land and squeeze out smaller growers.
* The growth rate for jobs trailed the national average in nearly two-thirds of counties receiving heavy subsidies between 2000 and 2003, according to a recent report.
If When we take that endless river of cash from the likes of ADM‘s execs (and their criminal defense attorneys), Monsanto, Cargill, et al, we’ll have billions to bring healthy food to the neediest Americans.
The 2007 Farm Bill has passed the House and is scheduled for mark-up in the Senate starting around October 23.
You can start by planning to bug your Senator – and lots of other peoples’ Senators – to make the Farm Bill safe for Americans and America’s small farmers. The good people at Organic Consumers’ Association can help you contact the Senate – and we’ll be discussing what to “learn” our Senators about.
Bon Appetit!
(photo by Philocrates)



186 Comments





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kirk!
Hiya!
When the government gives a subsidy for beans and rice and stuff, is that the same food they use for school lunches? Is the cotton the same ones they use to make army uniforms?
pretty educational post and I would like to get an educated, non corporate, non agenda, opinon of pasteurization
I have of course heard and read how much safer milk is once pasteurized but I have also heard advocates of raw milk telling us pastuerization has no place in a healthy source of milk
so what is the real deal?
please no sermon about the health of milk in general, I know the pro’s and con’s but I do not know the pros and cons of pastuerizaion vs raw milk
Why is fruit more expensive than junk food?
In the graf beginning “Ever since 1933″ there is the following:
Which my guess is should be take care of America’s lands…
Kirk says “Even here, the programs are perverted, skewed so that purchase decisions are best for industry, not Americans. Thus the foodstuffs directly purchased by Federal TItle IV dollars and provided as US Govt food assistance are high-calorie industrial foods and processed foods: the worst possible food choices for low-income Americans, seniors, and Native Americans already dying from diet-induced obesity and Type II diabetes.”
Just inexcusable on the government’s part, in a “what are they thinking?” way.
Kirk! Kirk Murphy!
great post. why do I glow in the dark after eating an apple? ;)
do-si-do @ 7
For real????
SnarKassandra @ 9
Nah, but I can “spark” with the best of them…do you know what sparking is?
Kirk, I am posting this from Union of Concerned Scientists, without having read through all of its associated links.
Food and Environment
Hope it is helpful.
do-si-do @ 9
Nope.
Another brilliant expose.
We already know that we have a bought and paid for congress which serves their paymasters.
This won’t be changing no matter how many times we jump up and down, because money runs politics and politics runs money. It’s an endless loop and we get the droppings.
Whether it’s education, agrabiz, MIC, Pharma, Health, Insurance, our congress is owned by these lobbyists.
How can you explain the fact that the polls shows the will of the people and we are continually ignored?
Answer: the will of the people does not matter except to get their votes by Kabuki performances. Once ensconced most of the congress critters are inaccessible, except to lobbyists.
Ever try to meet with your senator or congress critter to do some lobbying?
Hi pups – thanks for reading…
Marion, thanks for your your sharp eyes!
OMG – I’d correct my comment typo – but that’s what my fingers do :{
{when I was a high school year book editor, I had to proofread by reading each line “upwards” from the end…)
Off to fix – back in a flash!
SnarKassandra @ 12
1. go to the junk food/candy aisle.
2. purchase Lifesavers Wintergreen mints. They must be wintergreen ;)
3. find the nearest, darkest place
4. unwrap a mint, place in mouth
5. with lips parted, crunch the mint between your teeth
6. sparks!
you need a partner to witness the fun of sparking. Contests usually held in closets.
Thanks for this important post. Who among the electeds are the powers behind this perverted system?
kirk, I’ve always been flabbergasted by how much cereal costs. It’s in outer space, pricewise. We don’t buy it and have toast or bagels for breakfast instead, or fruit.
When I do buy the rare box, I’m hovering over my kids so they don’t spill any of the “gold”. Finish that! That’s not healthy.
Farming is industrial now.
Factory farming is pretty scary stuff.
And now we have GM foods.
It’s all about money and not nutrition now.
We’ll be eating sawdust soon with artificial flavors.
do-si-do @ 19
Corn flakes are cheap.
do-si-do @ 18
omg, too funny — I’d forgotten about that!
Corporate America, voraciously feeding at the taxpayer trough and posioning the breadbasket of America.
Anyone know how much of a “wind-fall” big agra gets from the ethanol fuel scam?
Ok, everyone – hard-refresh and all comments will be restored.
thanks.
And of course there is Big Soy:
Vegans and animal rights people are pretty informed on what industrial food is all about.
Once you learn about factory farms it’s pretty hard to consume animal products and actually think about what you are eating.
One company recently had to recall millions of pounds of ground beef.
Mad Cow disease is the result of feeding animals to animals. It’s only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan. And they cover up by not inspecting and when they do find out they hush it up.
We’re screwed again.
Clearing out the corner of my shop where the potatoes, carrots, cabbage and beets are stored. Organically grown, with compost and fish fertilizer. This evening we’re making the last batches of salsa, pesto and tomato sauce. One HUGE praying mantis has survived. The ladybugs are all gone from the greenhouse.
Am I smug? No. Happy that we’re able to grow so much of our food organically? Yes. Harvest time is great – the days we’ve been doing it went by quickly. I just realized, I hadn’t been in a Fred Meyer store for two weeks, and that was to buy a headlight for my car.
The pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer companies are totally evil. Dr. Murphy is totally awesome!
Most people in this country don’t know a thing about what they are eating or what is a balanced diet.
For years we had that BS food pyramid. Our foods are loaded with preservatives, dyes and chemicals. Most Americans don’t even care. This isn’t France where eating is about food. Here it’s about empty calories.
Look at all the obesity. It’s from the type of food we are eating.
SnarKassandra @ 19
Outside of slappin’ something on the grill, I can cook… Chex Mix. Period. That’s pretty much it.
And while it draws raves, it *has* gotten to be an expensive treat…
SanderO, do-si-do, perris, jml..thanks so much – I’m blushing.
Great questions, Cassie.
I don’t know about the sourcing of cotton for US militaty uniforms, but the vast majority of (crop commodity payment) subsidized US cotton gets
threefour more subsidies:1) water – pumped though/with Federally subidiszed water projects. For the US cotton crop not directly irrigated by Federal water projects, much of the irrigation water comes from irreplaceable undergound water (like the Ogalla (?sp) in the arid Plains states). So we pay to piss away irrepalcable water on subsidized commodities fo rexport (more on this later).
2) Transport – cotton is transported by bulk carriers dependent on the massive Cirps of Enginers projects.
3) Transport energy – artifically low costs don’t reflect the war machine that grabs it or the gloabl warming it costs us all.
4) Pesticides – feedsotcks from petroleum (see above for subsidies); health care (cancer, infertility., devleopmental disorders, “birth defects”, senility) costs covered by We the People.
_–
Why do fresh foods and veggies cost lest than junk food?
Most US junnk food uses corn (specially high fructose corn syrup).
The farm bill’s artifical subsidies make artificail food ingredients carried in tanker trucks cheaper than fresh food.
raven @ 24
Brasil’s voracious appetite for E-85 is decimating the Amazon Basin to plant sugar cane…!!!
Drive by-ing:
Read Oryx and Crake if you havent.
Bucket O’ Chickin Nubbins!
Look at all the obesity. It’s from the type of food we are eating.
Obesity comes from what we eat? Amazing!
Ed Teller has the right approach, but we all can’t grow the food we eat. We are forced to buy what’s on the grocery shelves.
Slowly, there are appearing some healthier choices. But look at what choices you find in poor neighborhoods or in urban ghettos. Junk Food!
The preference for high-fructose corn syrup over cane sugar amongst the vast majority of American food and beverage manufacturers is largely due to U.S. import quotas and tariffs on sugar. These tariffs significantly increase the domestic U.S. price for sugar, forcing Americans to pay more than twice the world price for sugar, making high-fructose corn syrup an attractive substitute in U.S. markets. For instance, soft drink makers like Coca-Cola use sugar internationally but use high-fructose corn syrup in their U.S. products.
Large corporations such as Archer Daniels Midland lobby for the continuation of these subsidies.[17] Since local and federal laws often put a limit on how much money one particular lobbyist can contribute,[18] ADM’s contributions are often given by numerous smaller entities under the authority of ADM. This is commonly called bundling political contributions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H…..corn_syrup
We’re drowning in high fructose corn syrup. Do the risks go beyond our waistline?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..4VKMH1.DTL
perris, your question on pasteurization is quite trenchant.
here in the Bay Area where foodies enjoy small (closed) herds raised on open land (grass-fed, not grain-fed), I know lots of folks who “sponsor” a sheep or cow or goat on an organic farm. The foodies know (and usually go see) the animals – raised in low desnities so infections aren’t an issue, and hence antibiotics aren’t required just to keep ‘em alive.
I drink that non-pasteurized milk – but I wouldn’t drink non-pasteurized milk from factory farms or even grain-fed “organic” diaries.
TO clarify – I’m just describing what I do to answer yor question, not suggesting anyone follow my path.
FWIW
Well, hey, CT!
If we can grow rice in the mojave desert….don’t get me going about the myth of the self sustaining farm!
Dr. Murphy, I am fortunate to have a rather brilliant and well read sister who lives in Florence Italy and is a vegan and animal rights activist. She has given me many books, videos, personal lectures and I have met many in the animal rights movement who are fighting against what industrial foods are doing to the planet.
Agra and Oil are hand in glove.
We raise and slaughter something like 30 billion animals a year for human use. And the conditions which these animals must live their lives is one continuous torture and suffering from birth till slaughter.
The operation of these factory farms, feed lots and slaughter houses is kept out of the media so people cannot see what ends up in plastic wrappers on their grocery shelves and eventually on their plates and in their stomachs.
People would revolt if they knew.
SanderO @ 27
Yep – the consequence of our commodity subsidies is to make the foods with high “glycemic index” values the cheapest food.
The higher the glycemic index, the more likely the food will lead to obesity, diabetes (Type II), and all the predictable health consequences.
Ed*ard Teller @ 26
That’s so cool. How much land does it take to grow enough for your family? My hubby loves to grow food, but we do it kinda sporadically. He grew up in the OC when it really was filled with orange groves. He’s very sentimental about citrus. So we planted a lemon tree which grows very well even here in NoCal.
Antibiotics and Food
snip: ~~~~An estimated 70 percent of antibiotics and related drugs are used for nontherapeutic purposes on animal factory farms, rendering these drugs ineffective when doctors need them to treat sick patients.~~~~
Valley Girl @ 40
Why do they give it to the animals?
OK, just read these comments. Wow what a knowledgable bunch of foul mouthed…
I drove from Amarillo to Dallas a few weeks ago…looking at the “feed lots” along the way; it is obvious why “grain fed beef” makes a person sick. The cattle are packed together, standing and laying in cow shit. Because its is an unhealthy environment, they are given latest generation antibiotics so they don’t get sick but they make resistant bacteria. We then eat cow shit in our burgers. It’s truly amazing that more people aren’t made sick or die.
do-si-do @ 36
Hydroponics works…!!! I’m enjoying the ALCS now…!!!
And we are drowning in antibiotics which are poured into feed lots as preventative measures against disease.
Imagine trying to do a Frontline expose on PBS about big Aga with ADM as the underwriter of the PBS system? hahaha.. never gonna happen. Nevah
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 35
I am not an expert but this is exactly my “gut” guidance on this as well. If you know where the milk came from, great. If not, pasteurized milk, please.
Is it true babies can get sick if their mom eats food that’s bad for them?
SnarKassandra @ 47
Do you mean before they are born or when they are nursing?
That’s it. I’m buying my meat from the 4-H kids at the fair next year.
A good book to learn about the horror of the American food industry is:
John Robbins: Diet for a New America
raven @ 48
nursing
SnarKassandra @ 51
Yes,actually yes to both. My wife is a lactation consultant and she has informed me greatly.
Haven’t you heard of babies born crack addicted?
A pregnant women’s diet will affect the birth weight and health of her baby.
Sander O @ #33 – But look at what choices you find in poor neighborhoods or in urban ghettos. Junk Food!
Many ghetto or low income neighborhoods abut neighborhoods with ethnic markets, where, in season, you can find better deals that at any food store. More and more neighborhood markets are featuring organic foods. We found organic basil in Des Moines WA this summer for about $5.00 for a huge bag.
Dosido @ #39 – if you count our two greenhouses, the berry patches and the main garden, we have almost a half acre on which we grow food. If we used an acre, we would have a small surplus – for about three people. The kids come and go.
Breakfast “cereals” are a great example of “value-added” processed food. Compared to the cost of ingredients, the shelf price is a total rip-off: hence the “value” for Big Kellogg/General Mills.
The least expensive breakfast cereals I know come from natural food stores’ “bulk” section.
The leat expensiv eway I know to have cereals (grains) on hand is to buy 6 or 12 half-gallon Ball Jars and a case or two of quart jars – then go to the natrual; foods/health foods store and get different forms of oats, wheat, and other cereals. Whole grains to flous – then I’m set to go with baking, warm “cereals”, etc.
Total cost for five cases worth of organic, US produced glass/grains/flours/corn flakes/granola?
$40 (glass – reuseable)
$10-15 (grains, cereal etc)
do-si-do @ 17
Ed*ard Teller @ 54
There is a Des Moines WA. The stuff I learn on the lake!
SanderO @ 53
I didn’t mean crack. Just junk food and candy and stuff.
ET,
This may be true in CA, but not in the Bronx or Brooklyn or Newark.
There are ethnic foods, but few organically grown.
But we are seeing more organic foods in commercial purveyors now more and more, but at very high prices. At least it is becoming accessible in more and more neighborhoods.
In NYC all the poor neighborhoods pay HIGHER prices for staples and get the oldest foods. That’s a fact. Go to any bodega in NYC and you can see for yourself.
It turns out, Des Moines, WA is on Puget Sound, prime real estate!
raven @ 48
When I was growing up the concern was nuclear fallout in the food chain, esp Sr90 and Iodine isotopes and now its bacteria and chemicals. Ah, for the simpler times of the 50’s
SnarKassandra @ 57
Cassie everything that the baby gets come through the placenta which is linked to the mother’s blood stream which is where all she eats ends up when digested. Have you studied how digestion works in school?
There is a Des Moines WA. The stuff I learn on the lake!
I think it is pronounced Dez Moinez too.
SanderO @ 62
But i was asking about what comes into the breast milk.
Kirk and others interested in this, another link from Union of Concerned Scientists:
Genetic engineering
snip ~~~During the past decade, biotechnology companies commercialized the first generation of genetically engineered crops—primarily corn, soybeans, and cotton altered to control insects and weeds. U.S. commodity crop producers responded by planting millions of acres of these engineered crops. Because corn and soy are widely used in food processing, small amounts of engineered ingredients show up in a majority of processed food products.~~~~
The brain is one odd place in the human body because there exists something called the blood brain barrier. This prevents many chemicals or drugs from entering the brain. But the rest of the body has no such gate keeper to whatever is suspended / carried in the blood.
SanderO @ 62
She’s in Texas, they probably don’t let them teach that kind of stuff in school!
The story of George Clooney’s new movie, advertised above, is big, poisonous agra.
When I was in college our library was named “Olin” and we had Mansanto also on campus, among other corporations. I think we had some of the first divestiture demonstrations anywhere then, in the early ’70s.
SanderO wrote:
“Vegans and animal rights people are pretty informed on what industrial food is all about.”
Fat chance. In fact, such people choose to be ignorant about how many animals suffer and die to bring them their “cruelty-free” food, including organic. Offer a vegan a choice between organic rice and wild game, and the vegan will choose the one that causes orders of magnitude more animal suffering/calorie every time.
“Once you learn about factory farms it’s pretty hard to consume animal products and actually think about what you are eating.”
Once you learn about factory farms, why wouldn’t you consume animal products that weren’t produced by factory farms? And what about the factory farms (including organic ones) that produce vegetables?
“Mad Cow disease is the result of feeding animals to animals.”
Probably not. It almost certainly was propagated that way, but just like human prion diseases, it probably occurs spontaneously at a frequency of about one in a million.
Breast milk is produced from nutrients in the blood stream. It can be contaminated I believe. Dr Murphy will know that.
Kirk, thanks for the tip on bulk cereal. good idea. :)
I once said that here that growing food for fuel is immoral. The Ethanol program, using corn to produce ethanol, is an example of corporate and political corruption. It costs more in fuel, than is produced, while using valuable land and water and chemicals.
This is not just tax payer subsidized corporate fraud. This wasteful program has caused the price of corn to rise steeply. The poorest people get punished by having higher food costs. THIS IS IMMORAL.
John @ 69
I’m having trouble following what you are saying?
SnarKassandra –
the mothers diet during pregnancy can cause defects & development of the fetus. Folic acid is crutial to prevent spina bifida[defect of the spine] and low protein intake during pregnancy can impact on multiple symptoms.
Then you add infant formula from China which is fake, mothers so poor that they depute the formula short changing the baby. It was seeing a 6 month infant with soda pop in the baby bottle that nearly sent me over the edge.
Several years ago I worked for IFAS (Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences) for the University of Florida in Gainesville. I was conducting fungicide experiments for U of F in conjunction with UC Davis on strawberries and tomatoes. My job was about procuring U.S. fungicide licenses for foreign companies peddling various fungicides. It was a soft money grant job financed with monies from the U. S. and overseas. This, incidentally, is a very common practice.
Factory farming is to Mad Cow Disease as sharing needles is to Aids.
SnarKassandra @ 41
Once again Cassie – great question.
Any pups who ever had diarrhea (the runs) after taking antibiotics (abx) saw – or wiped – the answer.
Our stools (doctor talk for shit) are over 50% bacteria.
Each little bacteria doesn’t each much – but together, they eat something.
The feedlots – places where cattle are fattened up (unnaturally) on grains – calculated that cattle given antibiotics will fatten up faster than cattle (pigs. chickens, etc) raised without antibiotics.
So the feedlots dump antibiotics (most of them related to the abx used for humans) into Industrial Meat/Poultry.
As discussed recently here, almost 80% of your poultry and the majority of your meat is contaminated with fecal (intestinal) bacteria from animal shit smeared around the packing houses.
The antibiotics kill most of the bacteria, but the surviviors of the abx progroms survive ’cause the abx don’t kill them: they carry gense fo rresistance to that abx.
So will all of their children – so when yo or your family come to ER sick from the animal-shit derived E Coli, Salmonella, et al contaminating your food -
The antibiotics we docs and nurses provide often fail – we’re treating bugs that acquire antibiotic resistance on the feedlot.
Better living through Industrial Agriculture.
SanderO @ 62
Actually, it is incorrect that every thing the mother eats (when digested) ends up in the mother’s blood stream. Have You studied how digestion works? Because, if you have, you got a pretty simplistic view.
Oh, and Cassie, breast tissue is also like a magnet for carcinogens and un-healthy fats, etc.
I like butter, but the butterfat from cows is really loaded with bad chemicals. I eat organic butter, and not much of it. But I pay extra for organic, mainly because animal fats (and breast milk is full of these) do become the repositories for the bad chemicals, and not just from what we eat. What we breathe is also dangerous. For breasts/milk.
I gotta just let this out. I tried to google for it, I tried You Tube, nothing! I’m warning you…get ready…it’s the milk commercial!
Time for Milk
Anytime is the
right time for milk
A glass of milk
Any time at all.
Anytime! Anytime’s the right time.
Pour a glass,
a glass real tall
It’s time that you had a ball
cuz any time at all
is the time for milk
paid for by the California Milk Advisory Board.
Phew! I feel better now.
I look forward to learning more about this — infuriating as it will be — because while I’m eager to put pressure on congress critters (rep & senate) I have no clue what I should pressure them *for*!
Although, it seems to me that this is another example of why legislation needs to be broken down into concrete parts without bits and pieces tucked inside every corner…!
Wouldn’t want to dismantle food programs for school children, for example, while reducing the Cargills to actual working shills…
katymine @ 74
My mom nursed me until I was 2. No formula. Yes soda. Soda was one of my first words.
Do-si-do @15, on wintergreen mint ’sparking. It’s due to a phenomenon called ‘triboluminescence’. Light due to rubbing. No lewd jokes now, if you please. I’m actually at a meeting in Chicago this weekend of geologists, physicists, and archaeologists using a luminescence effect of radiation dose to determine the age of sediment formations in geology and of archaeological sites. (Thermally- and optically-stimulated luminescence dating methods, just so you know).
There once was a ‘Peanuts’ strip about triboluminescence, a very nifty thing to see.
Related: One thing Monsanto does is engineer crops that do not produce seed. In other words, if you plant this crop, you will not get seeds from it and you will have to go back to Monsanto for more. Aaaaaaaannnnndddd (no surprise here) these crops tend to take over nearby crops, so if your neighbor starts to use ‘em you might find your own crops affected once cross pollination occurs.
I consider this a crime against nature, and it should be absolutely prohibited…
Cassie, I missed yor precise question o n breas tmilk – could yo please repeat it?
Oh – and pups – we’re all equal here. I use my title with the food/health/eco posts ’cause physicians have had a unique role in public health at least since Snow took the pump handle off and quelled cholera in a neighborhood…
but please – just call me Kirk. Like Hawkeye Pierce said “that’s my name.”
katymine @ 74
You said it, sister.
BTW, we have a city close to us whose water system does not supply floridation (am I spelling that right?) Kids in this city get horrible cavities.
It amazes me how even here with educated mothers, they will put the baby down with a bottle of apple juice.
Snarks, anything that goes into the mother’s system affects the baby. Even hair color. There was a very controversial anti smoking ad that showed the fetus smoking. I hope that is not too strong a message for you and that I am not in trouble with your very kind aunt. ;)
VJB @ 83
omg! I’m not that smart but now I’ll sound like it…triboluminescence. I like it.
be sure to pack some Wintergreens.
LOL.
I can’t speak for people who choose to be ignorant. My experience with vegans is that were well informed about the ethics, environmental factors and economics and biology of food.
Let’s not parse words here. Mad Cow is probably transported as a result of cannibalism. I don’t presume to know the exact cause of BSE. I am not a scientist, but have read reports of this as a cause.
Vegetables from industrial farms are filled with chemical insecticides, fertilizers and so forth. I’m not sure that you would want to be eating lots of these contaminants either.
Vegans don’t eat wild game. They don’t consume or use any animal products.
Ed*ard Teller @ 54
Semi-OT, but ET…
Some video of the Knik River situation last night. Tragic environmental thing. I didn’t think I would need to be concerned about contamination in Alaska.
Kirk I asked if babies can get sick if their mom eats food that’s bad for them. Babies that are nursing.
I have a friend that has two babies already and she eats worse than I do and she nurses the younger baby.
Frank33 says: @72 ..in addition there is:
1) agricultural waste chemical run-off
2) more air pollution than oil/gas because of the need for train or truck transport (no pipeline) and the increasing use of coal for fermentation and distillation.
Peanutbutter, I so agree. The Lords of the Fram Bill cynically trot out the Title IV”school lunches” every time the Title I commodity programs are questioned.
Our pro-corporate media and teh Money Party Ag Senators/House (R and D) all cheerfully maintain the confusion and “defend” school lunches by voting more billions for Cargill / ADM /et al.
do-si-do @ 86
Orleans parish has not had flouride in the water system since Katrina. It hit the news a few months ago, until then folks didn’t know. The got it into the system for a couple of weeks, then stopped again, saying they couldn’t get any more. We have lived in a house with a well for a bit over a year, after moving from a parish with flouridated water. So far no cavities in the kiddos, but they do drink a boatload of milk, which is now giving me a whole other thing to worry about!
We are so lucky and we know it. We have several ranch/farms in the family from here to New Mexico. We grow almost all our own veggies and can and freeze them for winter use. And we raise (and sell) all our own cattle and pigs. No pesticides, no hormones, no antibiotics. You ougtt to taste the difference between home grown tenderloin and smoked ham from that stuff the super markets sell. I wish you all could. We also do winter wheat and sudan.
It is not just Americans that suffer from these subsidies. The subsidies are starving people and destroying agriculture around the world. The subsidies on cotton and rice in particular are devastating to farmers in West Africa. These heavily subsidized products are dumped in West African countries, sold for far less than it costs to produce. It makes it impossible for the farmers there to make a living farming. It drives farmers out of business, causing poverty, suffering, and displacement.
This Guardian article is from 2003, but it describes the problem:
Kicking the subsidies – Third world farmers need a fair deal
Ding!
Thank you, Frank33 – absolutely correct.
Switchgrass or other cellulosic ethanols may be ecologically sane –
crop-based ethanols are merely a race between global warming and global starvation.
Valley Girl of course not everything that we eat ends up in our blood stream. Some goes out as stool. But as far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong. Whatever is in mother’s bloodstream is in fetuses as well? Are their vascular systems completely isolated?
I went looking for the Peanuts triboluminescence cartoon but found something just as cute:
more sparking
The ethanol thing is a scam. It’s really pushed by Detroit and agra. They both benefit. Detroit won’t give up on the internal combustion engine, so local sources or home grown fuel, regardless of whether it costs more allows them to stick with the engine.. and agra just found a new leverage in the market to make oodles from something which used to be very cheap – corn.
Cassie….. your mother gave you a very good start, just as I did for my oldest son.
Not everyone can breast feed their children and in many developing countries, the mother is pregnant with the next child while trying to nurse an older baby. Pregnancy can dry up milk production, nature tries to preserve the nutrients for the next baby.
The child bearing years can be very stressful on a woman’s body, that is why it is important that children and teens receive optimal nutrition. They are eating for two times in their lives, during childbearing and elder years to maintain bone mass. Kids are NOT receiving enough calcium to grow and maintain healthy bones. Add the high intake of soda pop which leaches the calcium from your bones, I see Americans facing an other serious health issue with osteoporosis and all that entails.
I vacation on Tortola BVI. I have always been amazed at how lean and healthy the locals are there compared to neighboring St Thomas. It didn’t take too long to realize the difference. There is no fast food joints allowed on Tortola, and everybody walks. Also most food is local.
madmommy at 93
Oh, I’m sorry I worried you. There is something you can do if you can afford it. Ask your dentist, because I don’t know what the name of the procedure is. But both my kids have some kind of “coating” on their teeth to prevent cavities. Theydo this with the permanent teeth, not the babies. Hope that helps.
Isthere a dentist in the house?
And as far as ethanol goes, the US is now looking at Africa as a huge biofuel plantation. Uganda is planning to cut forests in valuable watershed areas to grow biofuel. And Angola and Mozambique are being targeted as biofuel farms as well. The Heritage Foundation has described it here:
Africa’s Oil and Gas Sector: Implications for U.S. Policy
The real costs to society of factory farming of animals is staggering in terms of wasted energy, pollution from methane and waste run off, disease associated with food additives and antibiotics. And this is not even mentioning the ethical considerations of the way we treat, transport and slaughter animals.
Eating factory meat is a horror really. People don’t know.
crossedcrocodiles @ 103
That might be the stupidest thing I heard of all week.
SanderO @ 97
There is a placental barrier. It keeps some things out but not others. For example, alcohol easily penetrates both the brain and placental barriers, being pretty much water soluble. Other things are kept out.
Cassie to try and address your question: undoubtedly the better the diet, the better the milk for the nursing baby is. On the other hand, quite a few things are filtered out, plus milk production will seize what else it needs from the mother’s body. So if your nursing friend has a crap diet AND she is nursing, it is harder on her body than a crap diet alone. Put it this way: if there needs to be a certain amount of X in the milk, her body will take it from somewhere else if her diet is not supplying it.
That said, my sister found she had to lay off the coffee while she was nursing…! Recreational and other drugs will find their way through, too.
My mother was a dieticean back in the day. I had to do reports for school on food, and she had a great book that listed all the various kinds of nutrients, vitamins, fats, etc. in foods, by portion in grams.
I remember that breast milk had more calories per gram than almost any other food on the chart.
That is partly because it is high in fat. And of course, breast milk was once the main food for babies and is “designed by nature” to provide the essential elements to nurture a baby.
But garbage in, garbage out. While the body may do much to sift through the garbage and make the most of what it is given by way of food, the mother is depriving herself of nutrition while nursing if she does not really eat good, high quality and ample foods “for two.”
Thanks, Cassie.
Moms who breast feed have a lower risk of breast cancer than do moms who never breast feed.
Why?
The most toxic cancer-causing chemicals dissolve in our body fat (not water). Mammary glands make breast milk from our body fat – so the breast milk contains a concentrated dose of all the “fat-soluble” chemicals that cause cancer and infertility and….
Nursing mothers who eat Industrial Food are almost eating “non-organic” food jammed with fats to make the mush palatable. The “non-organic” fats (and other non-organic ingredients) carry pesticides, herbicides, and persistent organic pollutants into the moms’ breast milk.
Because pesticides, herbicides, and persistent organic pollutants often act like hormones – the body’s chemical signals (aka endocrine signals), these toxins are called endocrine disruptors – they send “flase” hormone signals.
Developing brains (in utero and the firs years of life) require precise hormone (endocrine) signals for prorper development.
So – eating non-organic processed/junk food stuffed with fats (trigylcerides, cholesterol, saturated/unsaturated fats) is the best p ossible way to stuff that fetus, newborn ,or toddler with just the pollutants to disrupt brain development.
ANd cause increased rates of “behavioral abnormailites” (think ADD/ADHD), infertility, cancer, and abnormal sex orgna development in the little ones.
Bon Appetit – any nursing moms for a Big Mac?
We’re on the fast track to destroy whatever carrying capacity there is left on the planet.
do-si-do @ 102
Not to worry, as I said so far so good on the cavity front. I am pleased that neither of my kids will drink soda, at all, and never have. I rarely buy it, except for Barq’s that hubby likes in his lunchbox. My weakness is sweet tea, but at least I do de-caf. It just seems that even when you offer healthy alternatives, since there’s no way to know what’s in the food, it is nerve wracking. Around here organic is more than double the cost, though roadside produce in season is usually a good deal. Honestly, when we decided I would stop working when the kids were born, I figured we would make sacrifices. I just never imagined that being afraid to give my kids dinner would be one of them.
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 108
Fortunately it’s not a 1/1 ratio..the human liver is an amazing chemical garbage disposal.
Kirk you are a treasure here at the Lake!
In fact this discussion is really parallel to the prior post on why the poor stay poor, apparently.
The better the food, the better the body is able to grow and function optimally.
Words are like food and must have a similar function to the brain. The more and better the words that are used around and to children, the better they will do in school and the better their chance to escape poverty.
John @ 69
Don’t know much about this, but I do know that we have, as a result of human expansion and land use, way too many deer in our state, more than have ever existed in our area, and they’re eating up the undergrowth in the forest floor. My dad’s helping to redress this imbalance when he goes out with his buddies each fall to put on blaze orange and shoot a few deer.
There are many “keeper” front page posts here at the lake but this one is in a league all its own.
((((((KIRK))))))
Thanks Kirk, this is another reason that blogs are great. Such an important piece of legislation that impacts us on a daily basis and speaking for myself, I had no idea what it’s about.
What about baked potato chips and regular potato chips? Or blue corn chips or white corn chips?
No kidding, as on person observed:
Here’s a dumb energy idea – fight climate change by chopping down forests to grow biofuel crops:
Increasing production of biofuels to combat climate change will release between two and nine times more carbon gases over the next 30 years than fossil fuels, according to the first comprehensive analysis of emissions from biofuels.
SnarKassandra @ 105
I think the good news is that there is more awareness about organic foods. And the demand is being met, slowly and at great expense. But at least we have a choice.
Hopefully we can do better in the future, but we will have to change the industrial food production system. It’s killing us.
But we can’t boycott and starve so we need our legislators to reign in these monsters. Fat chance.
SnarKassandra, when you said your friend has a poor diet, you mean like pizza and soda?
SnarKassandra @ 117
In the greater scheme of things, the choices have no impact. These are marketing devices.
bg @ 113
I believe that is true, but it doesn’t always work out. My oldest son was a late talker, only 10-20 words at age 2. It wasn’t till he was 3 that his vocabulary took off. I had read durring pregnancy that babytalk wasn’t as good for developing brains, so I made a point of speaking to him in a normal manner most of the time. Also included was lots of reading, pointing out things on walks, etc. The little guy had maybe 10 words at age 3, and is only now, after a year of speech therapy, at roughly a 2 year old level. And he had me, hubby and big brother talking to him all the time. Even though I’m sure it’s not your intent, every time I see a blanket statement about language I cringe, because I know I did all the right things and we are still struggling.
Oh crap – edited this out in error:
Breast milk is still better and safer than formula.
The best look at this I know is from the lyrical poet/ecologist Sandra Steingraber – Having Faith.
I get chills whenever I recall Sandra’s 1999 talk to Californians For Pesticide Reform – she passed around a (Mason) jar of her warm breast milk -and read our all the toxins in it.
I cried.
And still – it’s better than formula.
Faith – she’s Sandra’s baby – the one Sandra had after the bladder cancer she traces back to Ag Chemicals in her amazing book Living Downstream
As we discuss teh Farm Bill in the next weeks and eco/farm issues in general, these books will be excellent companions.
These are the best books I know for lay people to understand the links between how their food is born and how we suffer and die from cancer and toxin-caused diseases.
Sandman @ 120
And greasy stuff and tacos and not any fresh veggies. Everything from cans.
The things I learned during my summer vacation to Crete…
1. food labels rarely had line after line of chemical additives
2. most fresh produce is produced locally, only hours old
3. Big on organic food and wine production
4. Roadside signs advertising taverna’s serving organic food
Crete has survived over 3000 years through invasions and occupations and they will continue to survive when the US goes down the tubes.
Dead on, X’d crocs!
Blue corn versus yellow or white corn chips?
I suspect that blue corn may not make much difference nutritionally, unless the chips are baked instead of fried (any color of chips would be better to eat baked than fried), and perhaps they may have a little different content in terms of “roughage” or as my mother would call it, “bulk.” Which is the difference between white and whole wheat flour, mostly it is “bulk.”
Thanks Steve-AR: absolutely agree. I’m so glad other docs here are chiming in
(and kindly correcting/amplifying!)
Please do share your knowledge – two docs are better than one!
katymine @ 129
Katymine, how are you? I was amazed when I visited Pompei to learn that people lived then into their seventies with perfect teeth. It was their diet, and visiting the bakery was so cool. (Won’t mention the other business so well marked on the stone floor on account of Miss Cassie being here.)!
madmommy, sorry. Of course it is problematic to make blanket statements (oops, again.)
But the discussion was about poverty. So generally speaking (punaise), better and more language creates advantage. And lucky for your little one, that your household would provide an advantage, whatever the other circumstances.
Cassie, if you can’t get your nursing friend to eat better, bug her to start taking vitamins. Even a generic multi-vitamin would help both her and the baby.
peanutbutter @ 84
If memory serves, one of Bremer’s early orders in Iraq was a prohibition on seed saving. Not discussed much, but I think rather than lapsing when Iraq *became sovereign*, these orders were incorporated into the constitution. Our own nifty little petri dish of capitalism.
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 128
It’s a paradox
One thing that people can do is support groups that collect organic seeds.
Organic Seed Alliance
Seed of Change
Seed Saver’s Network
It all starts with a seed.
SunnyNobility @ 132
Probably criminal. Wow.
my bold
bg @ 130
No harm done. We, like so many others, live paycheck to paycheck, and there’s often too much month at the end of the money. When hubby asks me why I get so worked up over political issues, I remind him that we have 2 little people who are depending on us to at least try to make sure they have a future.
This debate is not black or white. Nature is hazardous to human health..think of all of the phyto-toxins and bacteria and toxins from spoiled food. Chemical food preservatives have saved many from sickness and death. I think the major problem today is un-restrained greed and the gutting of the safety and regulation mechanisms. Our food supply will never be safe as long as Republicans are calling the shots.
Well goddamn! crops with no seeds? I had no idea. Jeez. figures though, because built-in obsolencence is the new black in US industry.
newtonusr @ 135
Zombie crops and terminator seeds – many civil society groups are fighting these. At the same time they are what some of the people talking about a new green revolution have in mind.
In the Cradle of Civilization – and hence of agriculture?
This is a true crime against humanity and six millenia of our agrarian heritage.
If Bremer did that….
Should the Hague select a fourth war criminal for execution (beyond Bush/Blair/Cheney, may it Bremer.)
SunnyNobility @ 136
WHAT? Do you have a link, Sunny? Boggles the mind…
madmommy, my friend has three children, two of them needed speech therapy, however they are very smart. I wish you, only the best!
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 140
Like we don’t have enough to keep an eye on in Iraq – who polices this? Monsanto has regulatory boots on the ground?
TeddySanFran @ 133
a most ingenious paradox!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XXhJKzI1u48
Bremmer did a lot of nasty illegal things. Can he be brought up on charges in the Hague. How can he make such proclamations about the government and laws of another country? This sounds outrageous on the face of it.
Sandman @ 142
The little guy is too smart for his own good, believe me! I just wish they could figure out why he is having such trouble. Hearing was ruled out,as well as any physical mouth or palate defects. The best I can get is a blanket aphasia diagnosis, and that is far from certain.
Good night paradox and lakers.
Thanks.
66 B. Farmers shall be prohibited from re-using seeds of protected varieties or any
variety mentioned in items 1 and 2 of paragraph (C) of Article 14 of this
Chapter.”
Here’a a link to all the CPA Regulations.
Loo Hoo. @ 141
Here you go Miss.
Most of the sugar in processed foods that do not contain high-fructose corn syrup is derived from sugar beets. (Look at the label of a Smuckers low-sugar jam–you’ll see sugar on the label, not corn-syrup.)
For me, buying such products has been a healthier option than the high-fructose corn syrup products, and also a way to “vote” against the inclusion of the corn syrup in so many products.
As of next year’s crop (already in the fields), much of the U.S. sugar beet crop has been planted with Monsanto’s genetically engineered sugar beets.
Another arm of the Monsanto octopus twisted around our necks.
US Declares Iraqis Must Destroy Their Own Seeds
well, fwiw, here is one link, above
snip ~~~”The American Administrator of the Iraqi CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority) government, Paul Bremer, updated Iraq’s intellectual property law to ‘meet current internationally-recognized standards of protection’. The updated law makes saving seeds for next year’s harvest, practiced by 97% of Iraqi farmers in 2002, and is the standard farming practice for thousands of years across human civilizations, to be now illegal.. Instead, farmers will have to obtain a yearly license for genetically modified (GM) seeds from American corporations. These GM seeds have typically been modified from seeds developed over thousands of generations by indigenous farmers like the Iraqis, and shared freely like agricultural ‘open source.’”~~~~
Loo Hoo. @ 129
Or maybe it was the lead in their drinking water(snark)..the Romans used lead pipes for water distribution and the was lead and heavy metals in their pottery. The good old days weren’t always that good. Up until Ray-Gun the US food supply was pretty safe.
TheOtherWA @ 148
Awesome link. Thanks!
In his next life – which I hope begins* very, very soon – may Bremer be reincarnated as a BBQ spit.
With nerve endings.
(*at the end of a rope care of War Crimes Tribunals)
SanderO @ 149
Not to mention giving Blackwater immunity from both Iraqi and American laws.
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 154
707! Such vivid imagery, and highly appropriate!
Valley Girl @ 151
What was the reason? Just mean and greedy?
newtonusr @ 153
You’re welcome. Now, I’m off to read Broken Government so I’m ready for the book salon tomorrow. Nite, everyone.
SnarKassandra @ 157
Isn’t that the usual reason? In the article they give some sort of twisted reasoning but yes, it comes down to $$$$$.
madmommy @ 146
Sounds like the symptoms the child of an acquaintance has, and who has been diagnosed with apraxia. Treatment includes ot,pt and st; gains are apparent and ongoing. I wish you the best.
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 154
I like the way you think, Kirk. :)
Now I’m really gone.
The problem with engineered seed is worse than you think. One farmer was sued because some engineered crop seed pollen drifted over to his regular crops. Big Ag sued him for copyright theft and won the case.
This was a couple of years ago. Think it was in Canada, or one of our northern states.
There have been recent studies that show grass fed beef do not have the bacteria load that feedlot cows carry, and virtually none of the severe ecoli strains that cause human sickness.
Feedlot cows have a pellet inserted under the skin, usually behind the ear, that contain a time release cocktail of antibiotics, steroids and hormones so they can live in those unhealthy pens. Another source of endocrine disruptors causing earlier puberty in girls.
I pay a bit extra for grass fed beef and free range chicken. But I eat less meat altogther, too. A serving of meat should be about the size of a deck of cards.
newtonusr @ 153
Newtonusr, and poor, stupid me. I thought it was all about oil, and only oil. Food too. What else?
I’m wondering, Bremer being Henry the K’s protege, how Jerry feels now…
Kissinger leaves a trail of grief and despair where ever he goes.
Dru @ 160
Thanks! He gets 2 sessions a week of ST at the public school through Childsearch, plus through the generosity of my parents another 2 sessions a week of private ST. Because, of course, our insurance won’t cover it GRRR!
TheOtherWA @ 161
Nite, OW! I believe they’ve done away with the Death Penalty…!!!
New thread upstairs!
Getting to be one of my favorite threads, Dr. Kirk. Sorry I had to go run errands though most of it. See ya next week!
The case was Monsanto Canada vs Schmeiser.
It is a crime against humanity what they are doing to Iraq farmers. they probably have very good crop seed, adapted through thousands of years for their traditional farming practice. It is a terrible policy the Iraqis should rescind asap.
Great thread Kirk!
Millineryman @ 134
Couldn’t agree more. I’m only familiar with seedsavers and they do good work. Their catalogue and a gift certificate makes a dandy gift for gardening friends.
madmommy @ 146
Hi MM, I apologize for completely missing the beginning of this discussion…when your kiddos went to speech therapy, were they getting language therapy? or simple pragmatics?
i had a horror of a speech therapist working with my child who slept through the listening and language part of her training. we dropped her like a hot coal. many others were terrific. but i wanted to ask.
There is a mega wonderful book entitled Childhood Speech, Language and Listening Problems: What Every Parent Should Know by Patricia McAleer Hamaguchi. Very easy to read and it saved me so many headaches.
for example, one of my children has a “word finding” problem. When she was younger she had trouble organizing information in her mind so it took her longer to find the word she wanted, even though she knew the word. tip of the tongue kind of thing. much more but that’s just an example.
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 123
Did you read recently that women born between 1940 and 1965 have a spike in breast cancer? culprit – DDT. I used to run behind the fog machine that the parish sent around the neighborhoods to kill the mosquitoes. Fun then not now.
Loo Hoo. @ 141
I consulted my friend Scroogle and there are a ton of links under Bremer Orders Seeds.
Seems there was a big bruhaha about this. Also push back and claims of misunderstanding and justification. Too complex to sort through quickly. I’ll see if I can get clear on what happened and post links and conclusions at the end of this thread tonite or in am if still taking posts. Otherwise I’ll raise it on late night.
Even though we can’t grow our own veggies, we are able to eat only locally grown green stuff and locally processed meats, all here in Montana and all organic. We spend more to stay healthy, and frankly I get pissed off at people who complain about the quality of the food at Safeway and Albertsons – if they stopped buying that crap and went to local producers the big food chains would go bust in a hurry. Sorry thing is that most people are too bloody lazy to take care about what they put in their bodies. If you can’t be bothered to cook dinner from locally grown produce and locally raised meat, don’t complain if you have a stroke.
pups, thanks so much for your wealth of questions, info and soltuions.
hope y’all had as much fun as I did.
Late Night upstairs…
I’ll check in Sunday and address questions (if possible) and learn (from y’all – a given!)
Sorry to
duckpoultry out, but I haven’t eaten dinner.Lunch:
organic bread – $5/loaf (used 1/8 of loaf)
local organic pate maison
$6/package (used 1/6 of package)
Dinner:
Local fresh ocean caught “Jack Mackrel” – 2.00/lb (and the fish market heads and guts ‘em)
Local organic farm-washed then dried greens $6/lb (1 lb of fresh greens [not “weighted down” with external water like supermarket greens] lasts me all week).
Local organic sweet corn ($1/ three ears)
Local olive oil/ Imported balsamic vinegar (less than 50 cents for both, and both good quality, organic, inexpensive)
Organic tomatoes ($2/lb).
Organic basil ($1/bunch).
Weisbeer (from the EU – my genuine climate crime for the transport miles [importing glass bottles is stupid].
Besides, in a year or so we won’t be able to afford to buy much priced in Euros…)
$13 / 12 pk at Smart and Final.
NET
Total lunch cost: less than two dollars.
Total dinner cost: less than six dollars.
For a “fancy” dinner!
All food organic or pesticide/hormone/antibiotic free.
Fresh safe cheap seafood, organic veggies, yummy condiments, a bottle of good beer.
With no alcohol, the daily cost drops to less than seven.
Dropping the pate (I was lazy today) and instead using fresh veggies and/or chicken (organic, open reared, no drugs) I’d roasted myself, lunch could cost around one dollar.
Dropping the daily cost for organic healthy lunch/dinner to around six bucks.
The cost of a BigJunkFood lunch. (insulin not included!)
Just one possible solution – I’d love to see what pups around the US can share about how to enjoy cheap, safe, delicious food that’s also healthy and nutritious.
What ideas do all of you have?
I eat only fruits and veges that are in season.
They taste the best then, and have a higher vitamin content. Besides, there is something very comforting about a nice delicata or acorn squash in the fall with some beautifull broccoli.
And the late spring asparagus season is always relished.
But I live in a multi climate state, Arizona, so I cherish picking a fresh tangerine off my dads tree in January.
Somehow waiting makes it that much better, too.
SanderO @ 88
My experience with them is that they are pathetically ill-informed about the animals that suffer and die to produce the food that falsely describe as “cruelty-free.” How many vertebrate animals die per pound of organic rice, for example? A vegan simply doesn’t care.
I am a scientist (Kirk isn’t). BSE is caused by a single protein changing its conformation. It can be transmitted in many different ways.
Vegetables from organic farms are filled with organic insecticides, organic fertilizers, and so forth. Animals die either way.
That all depends on what the contaminants are. I’m not a big fan of false dichotomies, and as a biologist, I know that natural selection produces far more potent toxins than humans can.
I know, that’s my point. They will choose foods whose production cruelly kills many animals per pound (organic rice) over a food (elk) whose harvesting involved a single, humane death for hundreds of pounds of food.
IOW, they don’t really care about the animals. They follow brain-dead rules, not any ethical principle.
lest us not forget to thank Con Agra for sending out poison they call food. always nice to have poisoned popcorn, pot pies and how many other items have they screwed up on? I wonder which companies have attempted to add non food items as “additives” ? I wonder how many have been paid to be accepted by the FDA?
if you don’t purchase from a family farm, you know you will be eating what real farmers call garbage
We need big government. Independent people that search and overturn corruption. We should be rewarding those people that find the corruption and help stop it. Why not pay people to help us?
our government appears more interested in punitive action. Our government is actively involved in trying to kill us. Which seems against their needs for contributions
and for those of you that still eat animals, realize you are the real guinea pigs. They feed the animals the “experimental” food additives. Not only is the flesh poisoned, but so is your whole planet.
use the scales of justice, weigh things against one another and make choices that the teevee didn’t make for you
This interview with Vandana Shiva from 1998 is required reading:
The New Colonialism: Patents
And, we are the colonized, just as much as those over the big waters.
OCA will love all the donations they get from the fire pups. But what impact will a form letter, with a general rant, have on the congressional staff members working on the farm bill? Nada, because they operate in specifics not general bitching.
This is yet another OCA outreach for righteous indignation that will allow them to say they represent more consumers, you the reader. They will use the additional “”one click internet feel gooders” to raise money, so they can raise more money.
I have know Ronnie Cummins for many years, since the Organic Trade Association first funded him to help fight the first proposed organic rule. I am also a frequent commenter on the OCA boards, where I take them to task on a regular basis.
Kirk could have told you about all the hard work that the organic community has done to wrench funds from the corporations to support organic farming research, help farmers transition from chemical to organic farming and find additional funding for the National Organic Program so they can fulfill their mission to promote and protect organics in the US.
But instead of doing something constructive with this appeal Kirk and Ronnie are more interested in their own fundraising. This is their pattern and style
Why Firedoglake contributes to allow this shell game group space on this site is beyond me
kirk murphy:
Congratulations on getting a slot to post here. I like the subject, as it’s uppermost in my mind when I shop weekends for (expensive) produce at our local markets.
One thing I’ve noticed in supermarkets is the price of FDA Organic going down, and this would seem to bear out optimists’ faith in the market. Can you comment on the reliability of the FDA Certified Organic label and what attempts have been made to dilute it?
Organic George, I hope you assertions regarding organics are more factual than your comment.
Uhh – George – where are your data regarding my “own fundraising”?
Assertions are one thing – data are another.
George – if you suggest a penny comes to me from the research and writing I do for the Lake – please document your assertion.
Heck – please let Jane know. If the Lake is sending out paychecks for occasional contributors, someone left me off the payroll!
Save for review copies of books (three), I donate resources here – hundreds of hours of research and writing.
I’ve seen Ronnie Cummings speak once (I think) at a Californians for Pesticide Reform event. IIRC , he and I publicly disagreed in a Q and A about use of civil disobedience to stop GMO crops.
Seems like a nice enough fellow – I’ve never seen him sice – never had so much as a stamped envelope from OCA, much less a payment. I’ve no evidence the OCA even knows I exist.
Where is your proof to the contrary, George?
Your documentaion of the link you assert is – what?
We’re curious, George.
So – Organic George – having made your assertions, you now have a chance to document them.
Of course, if you can’t document these assertions – how can we believe any of your other assertions?
So George – where’s your proof? Where’s your evidence?
John @ 178
You need to explain how animals die during the growing and production of rice, dude. I dont get this, so explain please.
I would say there is an explosion in white tailed deer that should be harvested, for the good of the population. But Elk? That is a pretty sensitive population that has very specific habitat needs, rapidly diminishing here in the west. I sometimes buy farmed elk and buffalo, grass fed and humanely treated, I know the farms where they come from.
Organic produce may have some contaminants, they are ubiquitious in our world, but they have been proven to have better vitamin and mineral content. To say nothing about the fact that organic produce tastes better.
I haven’t heard anybody address this yet (and I should say that I am not a farmer or an agricultural expert), but this is not entirely the fault of the beltway and TFB.
In talking to coffee farmers in Central America who grow coffee organically, they say that their yields can be 5x smaller if they grow organically as compared to if they use conventional (i.e., petro fertilizer) methods. So in order for these farmers to make a living, they are forced to charge more per unit weight to make up for what they lose by harvesting a smaller volume.
One can obviously lay some blame on the powers that be for the fact that petro-based fertilizers are so cheap. Perhaps as the price of oil goes up, the financial equation will no longer benefit those who continue to use massive amounts of fertilizer.
Matthew, your point that petro-based fetilizers increase yields is quite valid.
I’d love to see an economic assessment of how petro-based fertilizers (vs organic methods) change productivity in commodity crops.
However, the question I pose regarding food without added chemicals is intended to call attention to the fact we pay more for foods without pesticides, herbicides, hormones, and antibiotics.
Thanks for raising the question and for this opportunity for clarification.
PS – Organic farmers assert that organic cultivation methods offer productivity equal to (or surpassing that) of Industrial Ag; as I’m not a farmer, I’m too ignorant to know what crops and cultivation methods have been compared in this manner.