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From pow wow in the comments:
Suzanne Spaulding, who testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee on 9/25/07 about the PAA and FISA, pointed out very clearly why granting this sort of immunity is a dreadful idea:
…On a related point, the Administration has indicated that it will be back in front of Congress seeking immunity for carriers and others who cooperated in the Terrorist Surveillance Program and, perhaps, other intelligence activities. It is hard to imagine a more powerful way to undermine respect for the rule of law and the critical role that communication providers play as the last line of defense against government abuse. Moreover, it’s not clear why this is needed. Under current law, communication providers already can avoid liability if they simply have a letter from the AG saying the government’s request is legal. If they did not even get that, what message do we send by giving them immunity for totally disregarding the law? Why wouldn’t the next telecommunications CEO decide to go ahead and ignore the legal requirements, figuring the government would bail the company out if it ever became public?
In an area such as this, where the normal safeguards of transparency are lacking, requiring communication providers to at least get a certification that the request to hand over customer information or allow communication intercepts is legal serves as an important potential deterrent to abusive behavior by the government. At a minimum, Congress needs to fully understand what past activities would be immunized before adopting such a wide-ranging provision….
…
Looseheadprop had a series of comments yesterday that are well worth a full read on the importance of upholding the Constitution and the rule of law when drafting the FISA provisions. See here, here, here, here and here for the comments. Great stuff from someone who has worked in the field — something we ought to see more of in terms of public discussion on this issue, I think.
And finally, some huge kudos to several of our Blue America candidates — Larry Kissell, Darcy Burner, Sam Bennett, Eric Massa, John Laesch, and Donna Edwards — who have been speaking up on the FISA issue and the importance of liberty as well as security. Thanks to Matt Stoller for pulling all of these statements together.
You can express your thanks to our candidates on our ActBlue page of Blue America if you have a little to spare — or by passing along some kudos in the comments as well. Also, do keep in mind our campaign for more and better Democrats through the Blue America PAC. It’s certainly getting some attention in the districts of the targeted DINOs.
…The groups — Blue America and BlogPAC — are targeting Marshall and four other House Democrats who voted against the bill that would have added $35 billion over five years to the State Children’s Health Insurance Program, known nationally as SCHIP and in Georgia as PeachCare for Kids….
A number of progressive blogs across the state are helping turn up the heat on Marshall to vote for the SCHIP funding, which would provide an addition 4 million more children with insurance nationwide.
Martin Matheny, of the Georgia Democratic Party, declined to comment on how the phone-in campaign against Marshall could play out in the 2008 election, but acknowledged that many state Democrats are unhappy with the three-term congressman.
More and better Democrats. Every little bit helps, gang and we really appreciate all of your support! And please, keep on making those calls and sending FAXes on FISA and SCHIP. Let’s get to work…
(Somehow, a little Ming the Merciless seemed appropriate today…)
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Christy!
Well Toby:
You got it! Congrats…
Biodun @ 3
Blushing…my first.
Hey, Christy – did you choose Ming the Merciless in honor of the other MM’s we love to hate?
just call me threadkiller…
kudos on the hat tips, pups!
As I was EPU’ed,
Re FISA, the Administration brazenly broke the law for years. What we are seeing now with telecom immunity and in September 2006 with the MCA are moves to “legalize” their illegal activities before they leave office.
Re Leahy, his caving is part of a pattern. He expressed some doubts but did not oppose the nomination of Chief Justice Roberts. He participated in but did not lead the unsuccessful filibuster of Alito. He failed to move on contempt citations against the Administration’s stonewalling. In the most recent case, he announced that he would hold the Mukasey nomination until there was an agreement on the outstanding issues. And golly gee, he caved on it.
Leahy does, I think, have his heart in the right place but he is and has been ineffective and ineffectual.
I’m EPU’d more than zedded…what message does that send? :|
It’s been tough getting through to the Senate offices about FISA, but I managed. Must be a good sign it’s so busy.
Meanwhile, if anyone wants a musical salute to Republican Perverts….and who doesn’t?
Refresh my memory: if I use the toll free numbers that katymine dug up, I tell them which congresscritter I want to be transferred to?
While I support the congress critters who come out on the right side in the issues, am I the only one who is rather sick and tired of being asked for money to support them?
Why do we have to pay for democracy?
What we need to do is exact a pledge from every Blue dem who accepts a penny that they publicly and vocally support public campaign finance and no more corporate lobbying.
This is insane. We can’t be paying for democracy.
This MUST STOP.
Just sent another email to DiFi. Fat lot of good it’ll do since she’s such a wanker.
Well, at least I have Barbara Lee as my Representative in the House — can’t do better than that. She’s so awesome. Can’t we make her a Blue America candidate? She’s the ultimate progressive.
do-si-do @ 7
I don’t know what to tell you…*g*
peanutbutter @ 9
Either senate or congresscritter…. they will transfer you. THEN you can hit “redial” and do it again and again and again…. ;)
sorta OT:
Watching Susan Burke from the Center for Constitutional Rights on Democracy Now talk about the lawsuit being brought on behalf of Iraqis killed by Blackwater, in US courts, makes me wonder “How many DINO Dems will vote to give Blackwater retroactive immunity when this gets further along?” We need more Blue America victors!
Tross — If you could double up with a call to a DiFi office, that would be fabulous. Every contact adds up…
I called Bayh’s office on my lunch hour. (I’ve got all my supposed “represent”atives programmed into my cell phone).
His staffer at first told me they’re on recess this week. I asked if I could still leave a message for the senator on FISA.
I spelled out how I found any bill that included immunity for Telcoms and umbrella warrants to be unacceptable.
He repeated back that I oppose FISA. I corrected him that I am in favor of returning to having judicial oversight through FISA courts, but I oppose immunity and umbrella warrants.
I’m not holding my breath that the correct message gets relayed.
Great picture. I sort of suspected that the Emperor Ming was behind all this. It had all the hallmarks: megalomanic contempt for the law, space age gadgetry, and a scheme that was so complicated and convoluted that it could never accomplish its stated purpose (finding terrorists) in a million years.
just finished talking with rush holt’s chief of staff (what a nice guy!) – he’s already sent me the text to holt’s alternative FISA legislation (the one the ACLU says is good).
anyone else interested in reading it? the ACLU approves of it, unlike the RESTORE ACT marked up yesterday in committee. and of course whatever the senate is up to is right OUT.
i guess i’ll upload now… (also have some info on his amendments to the RESTORE ACT in the intelligence committee mark up yesterday).
OT but important thinkprogress.org
“E-mail Reveals That McConnell Staffer Propagated Smear Campaign Against Graeme Frost”
This Telco immunity B.S. , I blogged about this yesterday because something came to mind that I do not recall hearing anyone mention it.
They want immunity, because they are afraid of billions in lawsuits.
My question is why?
Not why because they needed immunity, we already know they broke the law.
Why as in why did they do it in the first place?
Out of the generosity of a patriotic company?
I think not.
it cost a lot of money to put all that in place with the current hardware they already had. It cost money to run the parasitic program. I’m thinking the government PAID them to do it.
Somebody got paid off for this shit and Bush doesn’t want anyone to find out about it.
YMMV, thats my theory.
Hugh @ 6
What is it about becomming chairman of that Committee? It’s like they inject you with cave in bacteria!
Greenwald:
But, we are finding out now, there is literally nothing the leadership of the bought-and-paid-for, unscrupulous (D) party won’t enable for their friends, the corporate elite and the neo-conservative faction that has taken over the executive branch.
egregious @ 19
But Michelle Malkin vehemently denied it and we know she NEVER misstates or acts deceitfully!
Bustednuckles @ 20
that is a good point. what sort of unsupervised slush fund did that kind of money come out of? and, inevitably, what huge percentage was lost to corruption?
if there was an opposition party, maybe it would be investigated.
“what sort of unsupervised slush fund”
Your tax dollars at work. Likely defense or homeland security.
looseheadprop @ 21
I can’t help but think, there is something, something, something, going on here that is much more than what meets the eye of us common folk. What’s worse, I can’t help but think whatever it is, is sinister. Like Mr. & Mrs. Smith, sinister. Who is today’s J. Edgar Hoover, and exactly what is being done with the info that is gathered with the wiretapping, etc.
I got EPUd downstairs, so I’ll ask again:
Text of my note to Rep Conyers
Dear Chairman Conyers,
In response to your statement advocating the flawed RESTORE Act:
“…To those who say that the bill is too weak on civil liberties, I say that if you trust an independent court and have faith in congressional oversight, those liberties will not be jeopardized.”
If this Administration could:
a) show that it could live within the bounds of the current law,
b) own up to past violations, opening up its books and operations to real congressional oversight,
AND
if Congress actually undertook that oversight responsibility, asked tough questions and followed where the answers led them…then I might be inclined to accept your FISA fix.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the situation.
Right now, our court system is under serious threat. President Bush has sought to create whole new court systems to try those he deems “illegal combatants”, kept US citizens without access to habaes corpus…and operated in clear violation of the original FISA legislation and often kept the FISA court in the dark (this isn’t even a standard court to begin with).
As for trusting congressional oversight, with all due respect, this Democratic congress talks softly and carries a small stick. Your subpoenas are slow in coming and when issued, ignored with impunity.
I am a New Yorker, but I don’t live in fear of terrorists, surprisingly that fear seems to be most acute in the redder parts of the country. Rather, I live in fear of the loss of our democratic system of government and in fear of the loss of the basic rights guaranteed in the constitution.
Regards,
Bustednuckles @ 20
can’t look up the link now, but iirc at the time it was revealed that quest did not participate there was some reporting on threats wrt defense contracts given (or not given) to the telcos based on their participation.
Think of the money we could save if we just dissolve Congress and restore the monarchy.
Ooops, didn’t mean to go all GOP on your asses.
egregious @ 19
Hello Ethics Committee?
McConnell and Graham both give me the creeps.
Forgive the OT, New Froomkin up. Lede is Carter criticism of the admin.
dakine01 @ 31
Isn’t Carter increasingly irrelevant? /s
thanks for the linky
sporkovat @ 24
DHS appropriation somewhere…IMO
We have a monarchy who pulls the strings and we thing we have a democracy.
Look at the power and wealth of the Queen of England. Once you dig into it you won’t believe it.
do-si-do @ 32
I’d like to see someone ask President Clinton to comment, but he’d never say anything of substance. (Though I’m sure he’s thinking it.)
I wonder what kind/magnitude of deals have been struck for american telecos internationally post 2010. CAFTA, NAFTA, any FTA for that matter. Maybe SAFTA…hmmmm.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 15
Done!
sporkovat @ 22
A pox on both of their houses- we need new political parties yesterday.
I’m tired of being trapped into voting for Democrats. They know we’re trapped, and that’s why they continually disappoint us on very important issues (Iraq & health care, for instance).
They know full well people like me would rather pull our our fingernails with pliers than vote for the vast majority of Republicans, so we get lip service & empty promises.
you know I was being snarky at #32, gang?
I heart Jimmy Carter. From Blitzer via Froomkin:
Go Jimmy! Calling out Bushco for writing their own game rules.
What type of rhetoric would that be?
“We don’t like what you are doing and we want you to stop it?”
McConnell and Graham both give me the creeps.
Never trust a man with no lips and avoid those with no ass.
That covers both of them, I think.
Tula has new thread upstairs.
do-si-do @ 39
They use rhetoric and call it fact. We use fact and they call it rhetoric.
Um, FYI in case ya’ll didn’t know this. I called Bayh’s office and got the usuall yeah, yeah yeah. But then when I saw Nelson on there I called his office all prepared to use my mother’s old address, and the guy at Nelson’s office said they go by zip codes- he didn’t want my name or address.
33133 or 33134 is Coconut Grove and Coral Gables. Just in case anyone wanted them.
STTP in Ohio @ 38
From epu land Jim Clausen said,
Here’s how the kabuki will play out IMHOP
1. Regardless of the Holt or Markup bill passing the House
2.The Senate will pass a toothless bill that Greenwald et al fear, and
3. The joint conference will end up giving the Administration all they want including retroactive immunity. If they can pass it through both houses with house language, some aid to Specter will insert all the administration wants and the president will sign with an attached signing statement and,
4. we will still not be privy to the flimsy legal reasoning nor what’s been done under color of law.
Sorry for the rant, but somehow I have seen this before.
I think we progressives are all that stand between fascism and getting back the country whose values I hold self evident.
do-si-do @ 29
The sad truth is that the dissolving of Congress and the restoration of the monarchy has already happened. It’s the “saving money” part we’re still waiting on!
Christy:
I am VERY concerned. I just spent te last bit of time calling ALL of the names on the list, and I didn’t get ONE SINGLE busy signal, or any staffer who sounded harried and harassed. that can only mean that PEOPLE AREN’T CALLING.
Folks, I don’t care if you are tired, or if you think it doesn’t work, or whatever the effing problem you have. Likely this will be on the only political action you will take today, so please, please, just do it.
I know some of you don’t think this matters, but I also had a very disturbing conversation with a Washington DC office staffer who says that people AREN’T CALLING on SCHIP, etc.
So make that one, two or ten calls right now. Whatever you have time for.
More on Darth–and Tweety:
selise @ 18
here they are, included:
10/09/07 press release, H.R.3782 text and statement
10/10/07 press release on Intelligence committee markup of RESTORE ACT and Holt’s amendments.
Ish @ 42
Thanks! Sometimes I succumb to the overwhelming idiocy of it all and get brain pinch.
Jim Clausen @ 44
well, what seems most obvious to me is that your worse fears will for sure come to pass, if no one cares enough to do anything to stop it.
so, i’m calling!
“…the importance of upholding the Constitution and the rule of law…”
______
Such a pre- 9/11 Terrist-lovin’ worldview.
Tula’s upstairs…
Will NORML please buy out all the congressmen and senators? Then they can make NORML activities retroactively legal, no?
;)
Jim Clausen @44
Sorry for the rant, but somehow I have seen this before.
I think we progressives are all that stand between fascism and getting back the country whose values I hold self evident.
Having faith in Democrats these days is like having faith that Lucy is really gonna hold the football for Charlie Brown this time.
I mean really, what do these crooks (repugs) have to do to be held accountable at all for a litany of egregious acts?
Where are the damn e-mails?
Why is “Cookies” Doan still on the payroll?
Where is the 8.8 billion dollars?
Et Cetera, et cetera.
Hugh @ 17
You betcha! I cracked up when I saw that picture! Excellent! Here’s some other similarities between Ming and Bush (from the Wikipedia entry for Ming the Merciless):
In addition to his army, Ming has access to a wide variety of science fiction gadgets, ranging from rocket ships to death rays to robots. Though evil, he has his weaknesses…
Awesome, selise @ 48. Thank you, great job.
I just stumbled on something that looks more than a little significant, thanks to newly-released court documents (great timing, there), and which is of a piece with Bustednuckles’s theory @ 20:
http://www.rockymountainnews.c…..66,00.html
pow wow @ 56
Just WOW! I mean POW WOW…;)
STTP in Ohio @ 45
I’d rather dissolve the Congress and replace it with a parliament. Multiple parties, much more beholden to the people, easier to disentrench and replace. No downside.
Talking Points is reporting that NARAL likes Rudy for his ‘pro-choice views’. That he promises to appoint ’strict constructionists’ to the courts and hopes that Roe will be overturned doesn’t seem to register.
They really haven’t learned anything from last year, have they?
Good job Pow Wow!
Follow the money.
pow wow @ 56
yeah…. bmaz has had a different take (for example, in this discussion with emptywheel at TNH – which i’m sure you’ve already seen), but i haven’t been convinced there was some retribution involved.
p.s. will be interested in your take on holt’s bill (i just track ‘em down – you explain them to us all *g*). i’m going to try to put aside time this evening to read both house bills side by side.
Oh well, as soon as Hillary is elected the hypocrites on the Right will be climbing over one another trying to repeal all of the Presidential powers they backed for their guy. “Privacy and Constitutional rights” will become their rallying cry (along with a revival of black helicopter fears).