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	<title>Comments on: Pardon Abuse &#8211; Not What The Founders Had In Mind</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/</link>
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		<title>By: RBG</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020409</link>
		<dc:creator>RBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020409</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1020391&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;zippy @ 88&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;No mention of the numerous criminals that Bill and Hillary pardoned before he was out of office?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This part sure seemed pretty clear to me:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Ms. Love also points out that it is only the really fishy, stinky, corrupt uses of the pardon power &lt;b&gt;(including those at the very tail end of the Clinton Administration&lt;/b&gt;), like the Libby and Iran Contra pardons that bypassed the normal legal review process.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[emphasis mine]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1020391"><em>zippy @ 88</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>No mention of the numerous criminals that Bill and Hillary pardoned before he was out of office?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This part sure seemed pretty clear to me:</p>
<p>“Ms. Love also points out that it is only the really fishy, stinky, corrupt uses of the pardon power <b>(including those at the very tail end of the Clinton Administration</b>), like the Libby and Iran Contra pardons that bypassed the normal legal review process.”</p>
<p>[emphasis mine]</p>
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		<title>By: zippy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020391</link>
		<dc:creator>zippy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 01:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020391</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No mention of the numerous criminals that Bill and Hillary pardoned before he was out of office?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No mention of the numerous criminals that Bill and Hillary pardoned before he was out of office?</p>
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		<title>By: Mad Dogs</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020170</link>
		<dc:creator>Mad Dogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020170</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1020150&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Oilfieldguy @ 85&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Deep, deep into EPU land, but I wish to stand this concept on its head and propose a question directed at our Democratic Presidential wannabe’s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“If you are elected President and after taking office you find undisputable evidence of criminal activity by the previous administration, would you feel prosecutions would harm our democracy or be our finest hour?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just for shits and giggles.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I had been thinking along similar lines:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;“As a candidate for the Democratic Presidential nomination, do you promise to investigate and prosecute all criminal activities that have performed by members of the current Administration?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The answer must be either “Yes” or “No”. If any other answer is provided, it will be taken as a “No”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Candidates who do not answer “Yes” will never get my vote!”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1020150"><em>Oilfieldguy @ 85</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Deep, deep into EPU land, but I wish to stand this concept on its head and propose a question directed at our Democratic Presidential wannabe’s.</p>
<p>“If you are elected President and after taking office you find undisputable evidence of criminal activity by the previous administration, would you feel prosecutions would harm our democracy or be our finest hour?”</p>
<p>Just for shits and giggles.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I had been thinking along similar lines:</p>
<p><em>“As a candidate for the Democratic Presidential nomination, do you promise to investigate and prosecute all criminal activities that have performed by members of the current Administration?</em></p>
<p>The answer must be either “Yes” or “No”. If any other answer is provided, it will be taken as a “No”.</p>
<p>Candidates who do not answer “Yes” will never get my vote!”</p>
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		<title>By: casual observer</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020168</link>
		<dc:creator>casual observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020168</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;LHP,  your piece reminded me of Goldsmith’s recent testimony to SJC, in which he spoke about this administration going right up to the legal line on all sorts of things, due to the intense pressure of National Security, and the need to Keep the People Safe.  Lots of talk of white chalk in the cleets, and such.  Our public servants at NSA, CIA, DOJ, wanting to do the right thing, but so worried about our safety.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But here’s yet another example of the administration blowing past the line, and it has nothing to do with National Security at all.  Unless saving Libby’s family-life is a matter of National Security.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LHP,  your piece reminded me of Goldsmith’s recent testimony to SJC, in which he spoke about this administration going right up to the legal line on all sorts of things, due to the intense pressure of National Security, and the need to Keep the People Safe.  Lots of talk of white chalk in the cleets, and such.  Our public servants at NSA, CIA, DOJ, wanting to do the right thing, but so worried about our safety.</p>
<p>But here’s yet another example of the administration blowing past the line, and it has nothing to do with National Security at all.  Unless saving Libby’s family-life is a matter of National Security.</p>
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		<title>By: Oilfieldguy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020150</link>
		<dc:creator>Oilfieldguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020150</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Deep, deep into EPU land, but I wish to stand this concept on its head and propose a question directed at our Democratic Presidential wannabe’s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“If you are elected President and after taking office you find undisputable evidence of criminal activity by the previous administration, would you feel prosecutions would harm our democracy or be our finest hour?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just for shits and giggles.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deep, deep into EPU land, but I wish to stand this concept on its head and propose a question directed at our Democratic Presidential wannabe’s.</p>
<p>“If you are elected President and after taking office you find undisputable evidence of criminal activity by the previous administration, would you feel prosecutions would harm our democracy or be our finest hour?”</p>
<p>Just for shits and giggles.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: none</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020146</link>
		<dc:creator>none</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020146</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It would go along way to simply require any pardons of presidential appointees for acts committed in government service to be approved by the senate.  Of course that leaves a few smelly ones possible but it gets rid of the Iran/Contra pardons and the Libby pardon.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would go along way to simply require any pardons of presidential appointees for acts committed in government service to be approved by the senate.  Of course that leaves a few smelly ones possible but it gets rid of the Iran/Contra pardons and the Libby pardon.</p>
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		<title>By: ADM</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020072</link>
		<dc:creator>ADM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020072</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1019999&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Mad Dogs @ 71&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1019989&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Badwater @ 61&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Except for impeachment, the Constitution places no restrictions whatsoever on the President in granting pardons.  He could pardon himself unless he is impeached and convicted.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While the Constitution may not have such restrictions, another force in play is the Supreme Court.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;SCOTUS has interpeted the Pardon power in the Constitution in a number of cases.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Depending on the composition of SCOTUS, I would be hesitant to say that they would &lt;i&gt;ever&lt;/i&gt; approve of a President pardoning himself. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A Repug such as Junya probably wouldn’t get a pass even from a fully-loaded Repug SCOTUS.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The idea that a President could commit criminal Federal offenses and pardon himself is anathema to the very concept of jurisprudence that even the most conservative of SCOTUS justices would likely find it abhorent and unconstitutional.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IMHO *g*&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I would like to think that is true.  I really would.  But I would not put anything past these “conservative” justices.  It would not surprise me if W did pardon himself and it would not surprise me if the supremes sat back and did nothing to stop it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All of our elected officials and our appointed officials are acting like children on the playground.  There are no adults.  When will the adults be in charge again?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1019999"><em>Mad Dogs @ 71</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-1019989"><em>Badwater @ 61</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
Except for impeachment, the Constitution places no restrictions whatsoever on the President in granting pardons.  He could pardon himself unless he is impeached and convicted.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>While the Constitution may not have such restrictions, another force in play is the Supreme Court.</p>
<p>SCOTUS has interpeted the Pardon power in the Constitution in a number of cases.</p>
<p>Depending on the composition of SCOTUS, I would be hesitant to say that they would <i>ever</i> approve of a President pardoning himself. </p>
<p>A Repug such as Junya probably wouldn’t get a pass even from a fully-loaded Repug SCOTUS.</p>
<p>The idea that a President could commit criminal Federal offenses and pardon himself is anathema to the very concept of jurisprudence that even the most conservative of SCOTUS justices would likely find it abhorent and unconstitutional.</p>
<p>IMHO *g*</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would like to think that is true.  I really would.  But I would not put anything past these “conservative” justices.  It would not surprise me if W did pardon himself and it would not surprise me if the supremes sat back and did nothing to stop it.</p>
<p>All of our elected officials and our appointed officials are acting like children on the playground.  There are no adults.  When will the adults be in charge again?</p>
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		<title>By: gogs</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020048</link>
		<dc:creator>gogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020048</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://rickwrites.blogspot.com/2007/10/rehaditha-oliver-stone-abu-grahib-my.html&quot;&gt;Did you that even this SOB got a pardon.&lt;/a&gt;  Says a lot don’t it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rickwrites.blogspot.com/2007/10/rehaditha-oliver-stone-abu-grahib-my.html">Did you that even this SOB got a pardon.</a>  Says a lot don’t it?</p>
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		<title>By: theExile</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020030</link>
		<dc:creator>theExile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020030</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m still wondering if old Commander Cod Piece is thinking about pardoning or commuting Marion Jones. From what I understand she’s looking at six months for “lying to Feds.” Six months, is this even a felony?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m still wondering if old Commander Cod Piece is thinking about pardoning or commuting Marion Jones. From what I understand she’s looking at six months for “lying to Feds.” Six months, is this even a felony?</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/07/pardon-abuse-not-what-the-founders-had-in-mind/#comment-1020014</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;1,619 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Citizen Mabel’s Wig Shake and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“don’t forget that Gerald Ford was an illustrious member of the infamous Warren (de) commission - so this guy is/was up to his neck in all sorts a nefarious nonsense-”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Right on!! Isn’t it amazin’ that all the nightmares in our politics over the last 43 years includin’ wars and impeachments and outright theft from the federal treasury go back to that moment in Dallas when a southerner from the oil patch became president in the only way a southerner could since 1860? Look at all the political gobblins and creatures of the night that keep popin up  since that terrible time in 1963-64 when the oligarchy made it’s move and changed all our lives forever.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER THAT FASCISM IS LIFE THREATENING!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1,619 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND..</p>
<p>Citizen Mabel’s Wig Shake and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:</p>
<p>“don’t forget that Gerald Ford was an illustrious member of the infamous Warren (de) commission &#8211; so this guy is/was up to his neck in all sorts a nefarious nonsense-”</p>
<p>Right on!! Isn’t it amazin’ that all the nightmares in our politics over the last 43 years includin’ wars and impeachments and outright theft from the federal treasury go back to that moment in Dallas when a southerner from the oil patch became president in the only way a southerner could since 1860? Look at all the political gobblins and creatures of the night that keep popin up  since that terrible time in 1963-64 when the oligarchy made it’s move and changed all our lives forever.  </p>
<p>KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER THAT FASCISM IS LIFE THREATENING!!</p>
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